Collecting Firstborn Space Marines in 2024

[@jameskim3155]

First born marines till death, it’s not only about the mark of armor but of a time when 40K was inscribed in brimstone.

[@esbenm6544]

Brimstone is actually very brittle. Not good for inscribing or longlasting.

[@joshuacouture479]

I miss when blood angels had their own tactical squad. Despite the proportion issue with firstborn the way they’re built was superior. Before we used to be able to swap out entire chest pieces and use weapons from other space marine kits like devastators, now with the new way primaris are made have none of that conversion/flexability

[@cloaker2829]

Buy them from china

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

Imperial guard kinda has the same issue; at least it seems that way

[@AbelDuviant]

Poses and proportions are way better though so I don't really mind

[@guilliman1990]

straight up no comparison. primaris are rubbish snap builds and a huge reason i dropped 40k entirely and focused on heresy only

[@austinnutter3367]

@@guilliman1990 the beakie box constructs exactly the way Primaris does tho

[@geenobe9941]

30k's success means that even if they die off in 40k, there will always be first born options

[@deleteduser7132]

The organization of Firstborn makes so much more sense than the bloat of the Primaris line in my opinion. The Primaris vehicles look horrible also.

[@CdrChaos]

Firstborn get transported in a tank. Primaris get transported in a pickup truck that hovers.

[@dicedoom7162]

i love the firstborn design in everything so much more, the only thing primaris have is that they are bigger. i really dont like the grav tanks :(

[@empirefan2023]

100% agreed!!!

[@vlad78th]

I play OPR with firstborn or 3D printed firstborn truescaled.

[@lt.slayer677]

I second that Brother.

[@gstellar96]

I don't think space marines do vehicles aside from dreadnoughts any good. The rhino and all it's variations look terrible but so does the new stuff

[@samsowden]

@@gstellar96 I love the predator and vindicator myself

[@KrakDuk]

I hope they make a new firstborn MK VII kit. The space marine heroes were absolutely gorgeous, honestly my favorite standard marine models. I’m sad the new heroes are primaris, literally look the same as normal kits. The firstborn heroes are good scale compared to primaris imo, just slightly shorter, while being noticeable larger than (most) regular human models.

[@sebastianhovenas272]

Couldn't agree more

[@rparis285]

So right duk. I think they are a perfect size. It would be nice to have that scale and the design of classic marines construction wise. Monopose is the bane of my hobbying existence.

[@techmaster9775]

Once again duck being 100% right with his take

[@ObjectiveAnalysis]

I reckon they will release one for HH soon. If I was GW I’d be working towards releasing a full range refresh for first born eventually

[@Jackalos1]

@@ObjectiveAnalysis Damn, I hope so because that would be amazing. Would be a great opportunity for GW to show off mixed armour marks too.

[@John_on_the_mountain]

Just remember, unless you are a serious tournement player, none of this matters. I just bought some old tactical squad off ebay and 5th edition rulebook and guess what nothing is stopping me from playing it. Nothing.

[@GloriousGrunt]

this is the way 😎🤙

[@ltGargoyle]

100% correct. i play 2nd 4th and 9th with my friends.

[@richardseaton6390]

Just finding someone who wants to play 5th edition I suppose - if you’ve got a mate who’s on the same page then yes it’s all good. It becomes more of a problem if you’re part of a games club etc

[@John_on_the_mountain]

@@richardseaton6390 thankfully my coworker is on the same page lol

[@warsaw3784]

Someone else who understands! So many people clutch their pearls over the primaris and first born differences and that they can "no longer be used" because the rules are going away, unless your doing serious tournament stuff, just use the intercessor rules and proxy them in your casual games!

[@gosuippy]

FIRSTBORN FOR LIFE BROTHERS

[@nightfire734]

One of the biggest problems I and think many people have with Primaris is that they're generally aren't that gothic. I think that's what people mean when they say they're "generic". They could be in Infinity or something. I have warmed up to the Primaris and even have an army of them, but they're a little too nu-sci-fi.

[@CausticSpace]

which they could fix with a small bit of plastic smh

[@LordVader1094]

Yeah they don't even have a single skull icon beyond the chest aquila. There's a reason the Bladeguard are the best looking Primaris imo, they're Gothic

[@austinnutter3367]

To me it's just the sameyness of it. I like Carcharodons and to me the main part of the look is having entire squads of mixed armor marks, no two suits having the exact same components etc., so I made firstborn from my old stuff and 3rd party bits before doing Primaris to get the vibe right

[@kempo79]

For me it's MK VII aescethics, but also primaris riddiculous fluff. I mean, it really sounds like a bad fanfic. I refuse to fund such changes. So - to add some height I just use HH models.

[@Dom-um6gi]

Exactly, the Primaris look like a bloody Tau imitation of Imperial designs rather than something actually gothic and Imperial.

[@popcorngenerator1925]

Box naught still imo the best looking dreadnaught

[@DaKdawg]

I love my boxy bois

[@falsehero2001]

Redemptors certainly are more imposing with their scale, but they don’t feel 40K. They’re too new. They lack the baroque grit that the Castraferrum has in spades. Even if the new dreads are still literal walking coffins for their pilots, they pale in grim dark to the venerable dreadnoughts that have lasted thousands of years with pilots of equally impossibly to fathom ages.

[@grisch4329]

That abomination that looks like a dreadnought but has a fully able (non-maimed) marine strapped into it is just an abomination unto the face of every ancient who sacrifices everything to be interred into the sarcophagus of an actual dreadnought.

[@Jackalos1]

I dunno... The Contemptor and Leviathan give it a run for its money imo.

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

@@falsehero2001I think it’s just the fact that you know they are new both in real life and in universe that makes them feel not 40kish.

[@Chris-lr2qb]

I think the whole Primaris/First Born lore thing is completely bonkers. They should have just replaced the old kits with newer, larger, fresher designs. And it's not too late. They could easily just discontinue all the First Born kits/units, merge their rules with their "Primaris" equivalents or make new equivalents, and then retcon the entire lore.

[@John_on_the_mountain]

I was thinking the same thing. Not every part of a model needs corresponding lore explanation. Just make them bigger. If you absolutely NEED lore explanation, then just say new armor was created lol.

[@MyAlessandro1995]

Nobody would have bought them, they would re base them and add some cork under the marine to make them taller

[@GloriousGrunt]

100% it was a shitshow, compare it to chaos SM, they got new units and a larger scale but retainted the Rhino/pred and all of thier old units and the players loved it. In the lore they mentioned primaris are larger as that matches the table models but there is no answer to why CSM are suddenly as large as primaris and Cadians are now the size of firstborns lol the lore is totally scuffed.

[@ltGargoyle]

@@MyAlessandro1995 i have been playing warhammer games since the late 80s. this is not remotely true. they take their time buying the new kits. but almost everyone i have ever met has updated thier marines and other models to the new kit.

[@MyAlessandro1995]

@@ltGargoyle cause the one we got were new things, not the same kit done better

[@davijoe2002]

The silly thing is that I think they could have done a full range “scale-up” and made money without messing the community around with the Primaris thing. People are always starting new armies, I think they are/were scared that the OG people in the community would just stop buying their models

[@ltGargoyle]

i will buy no more marines. I did not actually play them. but i enjoyed collecting them and built a full 1000 man chapter. which i am still painting on. i give my new marines i get in bundle boxes to my son. it helps him expand his army and i get the models i want with the terrain.

[@craigerycocoa9669]

@@ltGargoylemy point exactly

[@craigerycocoa9669]

I agree that the OGs would’ve stopped. I was collecting Orks when they released the combat patrol with the new Ork boy kit. Shortly after they removed the old Ork boy kit from the website and people were outraged. I completely stopped collecting Orks, sure I started buying Space Marines but I didn’t get any new orks bc I wasn’t willing to make an army out of that new single pose kit. They quickly added the old kit back onto the website and to this day they’re both available. People will 100% stop collecting if the models they’ve been collecting gets scrapped. I’ve not bought a single Guardsmen kit after they removed the old Cadians bc I had a Cadian army and a Genestealer Cult army, both of which I was unable to continue buying or else I’d have to just deal with the fact that half of both armies look completely different from themselves. I am totally unwilling to do that. I don’t even really play the game yet I love collecting armies that I could technically play with. I collect for the hobby and esthetics of the armies, if they change them, I won’t like it bc they look different and they won’t fit being side by side.

[@craigerycocoa9669]

I do agree that they should’ve just remade the old look but with a better scale. I think with the gradual fading out of the old and slowly adding new kits that keep the same vibe as the old would’ve been a good move; plus they would need no other explanation in the lore other than a new armor addition

[@IronSquid501]

The only thing I didnt like about Primaris was a lack of relic technology - everything was shiny and new, but the whole charm of the original Space Marines was that they were working with old, but powerful technology, and that if they lost said technology it could be lost forever. Primaris, on the other hand, had these brand new, perfect pieces of equipment that were all visually identical and infinitely replaceable. More recently though, relics have made a huge comeback especially with upgrade sprues and units like Sternguard, plus additional lore specifying that old marks of armor are compatible with Mk X, and the time jump between 9th and 10th edition means there are now Primaris relics/master crafted gear as well. I think that's renewed my interest in Space Marines significantly.

[@pedropierre9594]

GW killing off the old guard really wronged me, so much so that i instantly quit buying from them

[@GloriousGrunt]

Imperial guard? Yea right after they released an upgrade kit for them too that was a WILD greedy move

[@tylerholmes2727]

Definitely pretty strange how they handled all of that between their releases in 9th to 10th.

[@marcello9476]

Same. I think the new kits are such a mind-blowing downgrade that i left the hobby for 2 years because of how disgusted I was. Doesn't help that the rules are only getting worse. Imperial guard went from being awesome in 8th edition immediately to being probably one of if not the least compelling armies in the game

[@craigerycocoa9669]

I also disliked it. I wish they had just mainlined a new type of Guardsman but kept the old Cadian kit. I think it would be cool. Allowing us to continue collecting the Cadian, and Genestealer, soldiers (which they basically killed that army in my opinion by doing that, I’m aware they’ve released a kill team but they doesn’t remove the sore spot, I enjoyed making my genestealers look like they were still people and only putting a few parts to insinuate their corruption. Also allowing me to use them as guardsmen.) They could’ve easily said that the remnants of Cadia trained the new guys from a different planet. I’ve grown old of seeing Cadians and the fact they made it nearly impossible to collect them now and then replace them with a different version of Cadians is just a slap in the face. They could’ve given it some time at least, or just kept the Genestealer kit available. Even if they sold it at a slightly higher price, I always thought the genestealer kit was a steal bc you’d get 10 dudes plus an explosives crew/weapon kit. If you didn’t build the weapon and bought extra bases then you’d get 12 guys a box with the ability to make guardsmen who were taking a knee. I’ve not bought a single kit for either army since they’ve made that decision. I’m not going to spend a fortune to replace what I’ve got and I’m not going to spend more money to add onto what I have if they’re going to look different. I take great deals of time trying to make each one look unique but still I love the fact that they look similar so they look like they’re all apart of the same group. Although I do like the new scale of guardsmen, again, wish they would’ve just pushed Kreigsmen and some generic Imperial Soldier type kit

[@TonyBMW]

Same

[@gavinadams4572]

Im glad i still have a lot of the firstborn models and vehicles still to build and paint.

[@GloriousGrunt]

Same, love my Land Speeder Storm and scouts.

[@CdrChaos]

The part that I REALLY hate is that they discontinued some of those models without enough warning for people to buy them while they still had the chance. The Dreadnought models were out of stock at my local stores, then the announcement they would be discontinued, and then they were just gone forever. While it's possible to kitbash a Hunter/Stalker with a Rhino kit and a few 3D printed parts, the classic Dreadnought isn't available anymore in any capacity, not even in a made to order way.

[@jshowao]

Things get discontinued, it's the way of the world. Getting mad about it is useless.

[@CdrChaos]

@@jshowao Did you actually read my comment before replying to it? The issue isn’t that it was discontinued, it’s that they did it suddenly and without warning so people didn’t get a chance to buy one.

[@jshowao]

@@CdrChaos Things are discontinued without warning all the time

[@CdrChaos]

@@jshowao And the lack of warning is the issue.

[@tomstockman412]

​@@jshowao Crime happens all the time too. Bad argument.

[@The73MPL4R]

I still don't understand why just making the models bigger had to have a lore reason

[@izaya65]

Probs more detail. We know why primaris marines are bigger (lore wise), but the increase in size from pre - and post 2017 first born marines is probably, for the most part, based on aesthetics. But I will say, I'd prefer 1st born sized up to the current Primaris size, the priamris helmet is shit.

[@WisePenguin007]

GW has ditched the "Primaris" word from the range, as it was just a ploy to sell both old and new SM. Now that they no longer produce the firstborn and have gotten rid of most of their stock, it's safe for them to just have SM instead of having that separation. If you look at the 10th edition codex, you'll see that it says "Intercessors" and not "Primaris Intercessors", having removed it from all units and keywords.

[@clinch4402]

On one hand I like it, on the other it feels weird to have an army of objectively taller "space marines" when stacked up next to chaos. Now it just feels like Chaos are perpetually out of date, instead of highlighting that they're an inferior (but not by much) version of astartes.

[@WisePenguin007]

@@clinch4402 Until they release the next codex and let out a new range that will be taller than the actual ones. I'm wondering if they will come out with some "oh, Fabius has come with an idea..." and then repeat the same process. Who knows. I'm already out, I'll watch the developments with my pop corn on the side 😎

[@crappymeal]

The whole primaris thing is dumb

[@MalefaxTheBlack]

Proving it as the cash grab that it actually was, and GW as the liars we knew they were.

[@Rothgar59]

True about the Primaris keyword, but now it's just hidden in the datasheet under phobos/tacticus/gravis instead.

[@jamesmacken9501]

As someone who got in part way through 8th, I find the primaris design philosophy is incredibly hit or miss. The improvements just seem to be implementing parts of the Firstborn design philosophy while their bigger misses seem to be their attempts at implementating aspects original to Primaris.

[@Floppa_Gaming090]

Size wasn't that much of an issue as proportions. I personally like post 2014 characters, they look decent.

[@arionofotherworld]

It would have so made more sense to introduce the 'Primaris' as just the armour type ( with the new squad types just being part of Guilliman adding to his codex ), like they did with the mark 7 replacing the original and much smaller mark 6 armour models.

[@TacticalMetalhead]

I just print truscale torsos and legs for my Tacticals. Fuck Primaris, I am not rebuying models I already have

[@Gigacat2137]

Exactly, why would I even buy official stuff if it looks like a knock-off proxy.

[@hopelessedgelord]

6:28 I disagree with the design getting better. Scale 100% but design. it's just picking bits from the fitst born range, then just discarding the rest. Like all the variations in helmets and armour is gone to the point. it's all just harmoginised and same looking outside of charaters and revamped first born kits like the sternguard. Like all the flavour and extra customisation is gone from the kits. 14:04 that's because they are chapter specific. It's good that they are improving but that doesn't excuse how mid the overall range has been. I collect primaris, but it isn't that fun when most of the flavour of the model comes from the gun its holding if it isn't designed to be something special

[@Penguish211]

Primaris was the biggest reddit moment in all of 40k

[@DarkCatfish]

Fem custodes was worse

[@LordVader1094]

​@@DarkCatfishNo that was the biggest Twitter moment in all of 40k

[@Flamethrower1942]

I have 2nd edition and 3rd edition marines, to me some of coolest models GW made

[@KuroSukotto]

i remember when they said they wernt phasing them out but then just slowly started phasing them out

[@craigerycocoa9669]

I thought that was funny. Like they were obviously a replacement and they eased people into it and all the people who’ve only been around during Primaris days are now totally on board with throwing out the old stuff. As a person, as are many of us, who has spent thousands of dollars on armies, I’m not willing to throw out or replace an entire army just because they decided to make them taller. I do only use primaris but that’s because I mainly collect Orks and have only been in the hobby for a few years now. The old kits look amazing and I’ve bought tons of the old kits just to do conversions to make the Primaris marines actually look cool

[@pvrhye]

A Heroes sized Mk7 kit would sell I think.

[@keulron2290]

I like Primaris assembly and body proportions more, but I can’t help but love and want more Firstborn.

[@kennethphillips6006]

It’s a shame GW’s retired the DA Company Vets/Fallen kit.

[@Sonof_DRN2004]

They’re still on sale at 3rd Party stores and online. Get them before now before they’re all gone.

[@lampshade6967]

I’d love to see firstborn at primaris scale. The proportions are much better on the newer modes but the old look can’t be beat

[@primafacie5029]

I'm pissed about the possibility of losing my FB deathwatch

[@mogwaiman6048]

Rhinos and Predators will go to Legends just like the Land Speeder has.

[@Rottenflieger.]

I think currently there’s not much incentive for GW to do that until sisters of battle/silence have a replacement for rhinos and chaos have a replacement for rhinos/predators/vindicators.

[@mogwaiman6048]

@@Rottenflieger. GW just won't box rhinos and predators for space marines

[@colinbielat8558]

As long as they are an option for chaos they won't get rid of them

[@mogwaiman6048]

@@colinbielat8558 they just won't be boxed for space marines.

[@colinbielat8558]

@mogwaiman6048 they are the exact same kit, only difference is the chaos vehicle upgrade sprue, every vehicle they have removed were space marine only vehicles. They will not remove the ones shared between the ranges.

[@nakenmil]

I will say, I don't hate the Primaris MODELS in themselves, but I really do dislike the range philosophy of having each squad type be ludicrously specialized as if they were Eldar Aspect Warriors. I liked the *relative* simplicity and flexibility that the basic marines had, and then you could add more specialized variants for the Chapter-specific Codices. I've always thought, for example, that the Reivers should have been a Raven Guard thing, the Centurions a Imperial Fists thing, Infernus a Salamanders thing, etc. Maybe with some overlap. Also, the open-top vehicles DO look very silly.

[@jeremyrayne]

They just made Truescale marines. But they wanted to make sure that you bought in and didn't just use their old smaller models.

[@Graham2777]

I have played Chaos for 20 years. I refuse to replace most of my models. Also, you sound remarkably like Gavin Free.

[@craigerycocoa9669]

I feel only the true collectors feel this way. I’ve got 4 2k pt armies and have spent thousands of dollars collecting them and tons of time kitbashing, sculpting, and painting all of my armies to be very unique from eachother, obviously, but even within each army, I want each guy to look like their own thing while being apart of a greater force

[@Tabletop_Epics]

I sold off all of my post-2017 lot and have been collecting 2004-2009 kits. I have also decided to stick with 4th Edition as a rules set.

[@Gigacat2137]

Based

[@Andonios88]

Great vid! Good use of the visuals. As a FB enjoyer, I will say the direction is headed in the right direction for Primaris....the smooth bubble power pack is still a problem for me but that seems to be a me thing lol.... There are things I like about both the FB kits and the Primaris kits. What I don't like, is the narrative feel of the Primaris, on the whole, they seem storm trooperish and I think their unit specialization works hard against the idea of scarcity and small chapter size. In a GW article leading up to 10th they mention how the FB 'Care for each greave as a relic' and the Primaris treat their war gear in a much more utilitarian fashion.....I just really hated that. I feel they continue to work against the vibe of 40k....of course I can head canon that but still I think that informs how the design team feels about it. Oh well, change happens, and the direction is improving, so hopefully it continues :)

[@drewlovelyhell4892]

GW was just trying to avoid all of the complaints about "scale creep" by inventing Primaris. But they opened a whole new can of worms. However, they are reintroducing fan favourites like Indomitus Terminators in the larger scale, so hopefully they'll do the same with MKVII marines, Castraferrum Dreadnaughts and the rest of the stuff that they replaced wih Primaris.

[@garathminis5108]

This video was really well researched. I've been playing since 2002, took a long break. This takes me back... Well done.

[@GloriousGrunt]

GW being GW had a good thing and soiled it to try and make money. GW stated they are not replacing first born when Primaris first came out (you can still find the quote in the Warhammer Community site I believe), obviously that was a lie. The removal of the BA tacticals and other firstborn kits made it obvious they are getting phased out. Personally I don't give a toss about modern GW or Primaris, they have become a terrible company over the years and I think Primaris lore is an extremely shallow excuse to try and increase sales. This crap about Firstborns can't ride in Primaris tanks etc was a total shitshow, the better way was slow upscales like with the chaos space marines slowly getting larger and more new units, almost nobody complains about that. The Orks and Eldar that just got new, larger scale kits as well saw little complaints although the Ork boys were a bit of a fail as they are now mono-pose and when you have a "horde army" that's monopose it doesn't look as good, also the unit loadout options don't quite work. Firstborn kits are easier to build, look great, and STILL have more chapter unique kits (Sapcewolves longfangs, BA Death Company, Sanguinary Guard to name a few) and are now cheap on ebay, it's a win-win for me. The reason primaris get the MK7 helmets is because they are a better design and even GW has to admit they are more iconic then the primaris ones. GW is purely a profit-seeking entity and they are shameless about it, they recently released the older, smaller firstborns in the Macragge boxset re-release at a higher price then the original and with less components, this "collectors kit" is largely useless in the modern game but they knew it would make money, they act like ebay scalpers with their own products.

[@Eric-jt8yx]

16:36 that’s exactly what I wanted but I like the Primaris, too. Cool video

[@jonathontinson8698]

Just commenting my thoughts on if they release the MKVII armour, - With the Horus heresy rolling in the old armour marks, I would imagine they’d save the iconic space marine mark until last (MkVii) - The MkVii (Aquila) came out towards the end of the Horus heresy as the scientists on Mars developing it fled to Terra, - It would be a fitting end to the Horus heresy edition to release them, - Would think they’d create the models for them following the same pattern as armour mark is compatible with the upgrade weapons and shares the same posing, Those are my hopes at least,

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

I for one will never tell anyone that can’t play firstborn. I also will never say no to oldhammer.

[@manchesternerfer9553]

I love the idea of a newer up scaled tac sqd but the issue there is that it's now a legends unit which they no longer make or will do sadly

[@Rothgar59]

The scale increase was a good move, but I still don't like or use "Primaris" I like the older armour models better, they have character, will probably just end up using Horus Heresy models as proxy's if I ever need to expand my army once the last Firstborn kits is retired. As for a new sized tactical or devastator squad I don't think it will happen, Space Marines are the poster boy starter faction, having a variety of weapon options will probably be thought of as to confusing for new players, hence the more fixed loadouts of the Primaris releases.

[@libertyprime2013]

I do like the terminators, scouts, and a lot of the characters. My main issue with a lot of the primaris/40k kits is I feel they’re made to minimize 3rd party bits/copyright, but my issue is the sprue design not necessarily the way they look if that makes sense, especially the recent stuff. Which is why I buy more 30k stuff but I do still pick up 40K kits. I liked the new jump intercessor Captain IMO they’re going to do Horus heresy/historical ranges. So they’re going to regulate a lot of “first born” stuff to older eras

[@TheIronRyan]

I've just ended up placing my old chaos/tactical marines directly onto a 32mm base, and the height is close enough to Primaris. What will be confusing is if they retire the first born tanks, considering chaos still use them.

[@narceron360]

It would not shock me to see a new rhino kit down the road. It would be an earthquake in the hobby, I'm sure, but its such a big part of the range...it would probably sell well just because so many armies use it. And once you have the rhino, you can make all the other vehicles very quickly.

[@megazaku1139]

God those BA Tacticals are gorgeous

[@BreadTeleporter1968]

9:33 Black Templars player here, Grimaldus has canonically gone through the primaris upgrade, and that helmet is actually Mordred’s, his former mentor from when he became a chaplain, so it remains firstborn.

[@DaKdawg]

I recall, when those BA kits dropped, some of my really model focused friends would buy those kits and kitbash them into their own chapters because the scaling was just so much better. It's weird watching all this play out and having a history of the scaling and how it all...got lost in the sauce you could say. Excellent analysis.

[@Stormeris]

I'm slowly building Firstborn only army myself. Gonna be using the Horus Heresy for the better proportioned bodies and lots and lots of kitbashing/conversions. It's super fun. I'm intentionally avoiding any and all Primaris marine bits in them.

[@MalefaxTheBlack]

The BS with the Primaris is why I quit playing back in early 8th ed. Finding someone to buy my 5Kish points of firstborn Blood Angels is going to be a pain.

[@ngangkh]

If yer playing casual with mates just use em as their new primaris counterparts, like tacticals as intercessors etc. Unless yer playing in official events GW really can't tell ye wot to do. If ye collected and painted so many firstborn, it seems a shame to waste something ye put so much work into.

[@ngangkh]

Alternatively Grimdark Future is a thing.

[@MalefaxTheBlack]

@@ngangkh Oh, I know, and I have a copy of it.

[@Kinhussar]

That Primaris BE squad at the start of the video is peak aesthetics. They also look way better proportioned than other tactical squads

[@HolyknightVader999]

I wouldn't be surprised if GW phases out Firstborn altogether and replaces them all with Primaris.

[@Centurian-br4cs]

From the first day i started playing in 1993 iopend up the Angels of death codex and decided i wanted a complete company of Blood Angels. so I have finaly finnished buying them by the end of 9th and by god i'll finnish them.

[@fransaacs]

Retro Hammer; so long as reprising old campaigns like the battles for Armageddon or Badab War continue to trend, players will want to build firstborn forces. I enjoy bashing and converting the older modular kits with new AoD releases, however I understand it's not for everyone. Retiring the original plastic MKIII or chapter specific boxes is unfortunate but understandable. GW's plans to build another factory might bring with it the return of (less) limited re-releases and made-to-order runs of old favorites (ahem, SPACE HULK!) never under estimate the power of nostalgia, Andy Bligh's Forge World campaign books are true testament to that.

[@Daisyandtheo]

I finished my firstborn army of 20+ years a few years ago. Dont play only collect, but honestly i would probably go into collecting primaris or even another faction, but from what i have seen everything is very monopose, and prices are just crazy now.

[@craigerycocoa9669]

Not to mention how all the new stuff is very plain. Nothing looks as gruesome or detailed that’s being released now like the old stuff

[@Daisyandtheo]

@@craigerycocoa9669 exactly, no soul or character

[@wakcedout]

ok the first born size increase explains why the new box of tactical marines im working on have such clean mold lines that on the legs im struggling to find them to clean them off. i will admit the old kit mold lines were visible and showing their age as a result. but that does tell me a box of blood angels tactical marines i assembled with 32mm base might be a tad small but im still likely to play them as theyre the ones i dont need to change the base on. and in fact you showed the very box i bought...so now im thinking the size difference may not be noticeable.

[@Xatxitor]

I cant wait for Grey Knights refresh. I proxy my horus heresy as a 40k army. Happy they keep the tactical squad in the datasheet, ust need to change the bases. We lost the assault squad with jumpacks in 10th taugh.

[@blessedpeas]

There's a few interesting factors at play, and great video, enjoyed it a lot. 1) Size of models. Nearly everyone is happier the recent models are bigger. Having Space Marines the same size as human guard doesn't fit the lore, or look impressive on the table. The thing GW needs to keep an eye on is not making everything always bigger, as otherwise we're gonna be playing on tennis courts in 10 years time. 2) Primaris design vs Firstborn marine design. Very subjective, but most 40k fans I think prefer the newer sculpts which are being more faithful to the established and loved space marine aesthetic and mix of armour marks, chapter heraldry and so on is what makes space marines interesting. 3) Lore. The introduction of Primaris, their in-universe impact and their new technology are the antithesis of a stagnating and dying Imperium of Man. A necessary change to drive product line expansion, but it is at odds with the whole point of 40k (in my opinion). A clumsy way of going about changing the space marine product range, but i think the return to space marine DNA in recent years is only a good thing. Kind of explains why Horus Heresy has also been able to be so popular. 4) Logistics. So much of GW's product range is space marines, to the point it can't keep up with itself, but also other factions lose out on updates and getting to a level of parity with space marine players. On the flip side, there's only so many space marines one person needs before you get oversaturated with the same models.

[@BESTIAL-CRUCIFIER]

That particular Black Templars castellan is an interesting case because despite it being explicitly based on a John Blanche artwork that predates the existence of Primaris marines by some 25-odd years, I do remember Games Workshop specifying somewhere that it was a Primaris marine in the rules.

[@Batlord_Carcas]

I had this concern with how they treated Slaaneshi Chaos Space Marines as well, where they are attempting to demote and downplay the existence event though there is the history of Emperors Children turn to Chaos in books and such, just feels like they give She Who Thirsts the curtain pull whenever the popularity rises more, in exchange for something "family friendly" like a wannabe dark mechanicus daemonhead

[@crumblybiscuit2279]

I think the best way forward is to ditch all the first born kits and give intercessors the same load out options as tactical squads - e.g. special weapon, heavy weapon. Updated landraider kit (or assault ramp repulsor variant), replacement whirlwind or thunderfire cannon and a new flyer, marines will be sorted then 😁

[@Sonof_DRN2004]

I’d rather them release a new primaris tactical squad with head swaps different armour marks etc.

[@artycharr]

as a painter I dont care about the loadout I care about the appearance, the new helmets suck, I want those MK 7's back

[@piotrjeske4599]

How do you plY white scars without bike characters, biker squads, biker honor guards etc?

[@Sonof_DRN2004]

@@piotrjeske4599 I’m that stuff will come the same time as the Raven wing refresh, along with multi part outriders.

[@TheKenji2221]

@@artycharr I like the new helmet. As much as the Mk VII and Mk VI

[@bertholdbach4959]

We already have upscaled firstborn. They did release the Space marine Heroes back in 2017.

[@mayofrench5170]

My Blood Angels collection includes models from 1st and 2nd edition. What a difference in scale! I have several squads of the old metal Terminators. These look tiny compared to the current Primaris Marines. Of course I have replaced them with the plastics. I finished painting them about 6 months before the new 10th edition Terminators came out. Sigh. I won't be upsizing my terminators again. One minor observation. The 32mm bases in current use are taller than the 25mm bases Space Marines were sold with previously. The height difference is a little exaggerated as a result.

[@richardseaton6390]

Nice video but I think you’re missing the point of Primaris - it was never about scale and making the game more immersive…it was everything about mothballing people’s pre’2017 collections so that Space Marine players (who make up the majority of all customers) had to replace their entire range if they wanted to keep playing under modern rules. This will take effect once Tacitcal Marines et al are moved to ‘Legends’, as firstborn models will be ineligible to be used as Primaris proxies (as they have a separate profile)

[@mayflower2765]

personally I'd love it if they brought back the old chapter specific upgrade kits for firstborn marines

[@craigerycocoa9669]

Wild to think GW says they’re not replacing the squatty marines yet almost every new kit they come out with is a direct replacement of older kits and they stop selling the older kits

[@FadedKingRick]

My guess is that GW will make an upgrade box of tactical squad, devastator squad, terminator assault squad and vanguard veterans with jump packs for the primaris marines. Centurion squads will have the same treatment like the primaris dreadnaught. It might be release on the 13th edition.

[@narceron360]

I think the way they did the sternguard could work for other units, like devastators and tacticals. The primaris never really bothered me other than the cost of replacing all my firstborn, but now that I have loads of them and that cost is behind me, I guess I'm more accepting, :)

[@craigerycocoa9669]

I slightly agree, had they just made essentially the same kits but made them larger, I think everyone would be happy. I especially think that they should make Horus heresy versions of the old stuff so that players can still add onto, rather than replace, their older modelled armies

[@mayofrench5170]

Naturally GW rescales the terminators less than a year after I finish painting 40 for my Blood Angels. A review of the evolution of Chaos Marines would also be interesting.

[@blakedelaney156]

I personally wish they had just upscaled firstborn into primaris scale and allowed the playerbase to just naturally migrate to them if they so wished with the unspoken understanding that the models now reflected their "true" scale relative to say, a guardsman. The way primaris have been written into the lore sort of forces your hand and dilutes the character of your army.

[@morgymomo8535]

i wouldn't mind seeing returned firstborn in a new scale. we'll have to wait and see I guess. i'd definitely grab some new firstborn kits fsho.

[@libertyprime2013]

I like the 9th edition primaris marines in the starter set. I didn’t like the 8th ones so much tbh. I like the death watch minis a lot. Tbh they should’ve just scaled them up and didn’t really make the primaris thing. I like the heroes marines and 30k marines a lot. I do like some of it primaris kits though.

[@miller1172]

All i Want is Primaris sized firstborn with the same customizeablilty of the old kits

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

GW's response to people thinking Primaris were boring and bland was to try to imitate first born marines, because the first borns are superior in design and style. Why exactly do you think primaris are better? Because they're bigger?

[@NathanLazyBear]

Everyone's lore is theirs to enjoy on their own, and your dudes are your dudes. If you want to run Firstborn go for it, there isn't a lot of support going forward, but the horus heresy models might provide some solid alternatives. Helmet swaps are also a good option, you can run whichever tacticus models in the current supported squads and run mark 7 helmets. Cool video, thanks for sharing.

[@darthkillhoon]

I've started using the Horus Heresy models in my Space Marine Army because I prefer First Born Aesthetic and like 90% of my Army is First Born. I hope we might get a true Tactical Squad for Primaris Tactical Squad

[@Mosaic117]

My gaming group tends to not be too fussed over what units we use as stand ins when it comes to marines. What really, is the actual difference between a tactical squad and an intercessor squad on the table? They perform the same function as infantry.

[@stevencarr5294]

Just update the MKVII kits and move them to the HH range. Win win. Even the Baal Predator is now 'available' in 30k.

[@wyrdwulf999]

Isn't MKVII post-heresy?

[@Theredsunrising]

@@wyrdwulf999 Nah it was around for the Siege of Terra but not in huge numbers. Same with the modern terminator armour

[@richardmiller1345]

I’ve got a 1: 18 ultramarine army, and 1:6 blood angles as statues. Love the early stuff sure but the new sculptures are better.

[@richardmiller1345]

I wonder where in my “fairy Garden” I put my Russ and wolves. I should find them.

[@Newovar]

Good video. In my opinion, it isn't too late for GW to row back and refocus the setting on their original poster boys. Even ignoring their aesthetical flaws, there's just too many things with the Primaris and their implementation that go against the ethos of Warhammer 40k. The whole idea of a technologically forward-looking and utilitarian elite force replacing the old guard just doesn't sit right with me and it never will. That's not the Warhammer 40k I'm familiar with where the most powerful things are not new but old things - relics of bygone ages, armour and weaponry that has been passed down through countless generations, ships and guns that can no longer be manufactured. That's what truly makes it Warhammer because you see a warrior wearing gear that was designed ten thousand years prior and it really hammers home the point that this isn't the golden age you're seeing; these are the people fighting over the ruins.

[@DarkCatfish]

Thunder Warriors? Lol

[@jonathanthompson4734]

I would be content if they just released primaris scale firstborn for the remaining squads. But I'm sure they'll just kill them off instead

[@krede77]

I think the best way gw could handle the replacement of first born marines, would be to make them a seperat entity. Make Codex "first born" and have all the remaining "old marines" from each chapter join together to make their own army.

[@Dan-qg1bq]

I've got an unopened Dark Vengeance in my cupboard, and a decent chaos space marines army that I was in the middle of painting when my daughter was born. Now I'm ready to rejoin the hobby I've come back to it and found that basically everything I have, and everything I ever liked has been replaced with stuff I don't understand, and isn't really compatible with what I have. Kind of killed off my interest.

[@ImperialDiecast]

dude, you made me go and buy a 10 man tac squad of 2014 BA cause you told me they are OOP and super hard to find. lol i found them bundled with a razorback for 40 bucks.

[@botpenn4672]

What I'd like to see is some form of coexistence between Primaris and Firstborn marines. Skip all the tech heresy with Cawl and say that marines can vary in size, just like normal humans can - we've already seen examples of this with Tyberos of the Carcharodons, and Ranulf of the Space Wolves. Primaris can instead refer to the latest Mark X armor, and if you want to, you can have a mix of Mark X's and Mark VII's in your army. And if the size differences really matter that much, you can make the taller marines a little bit tougher to compensate for being slightly easier to hit, and make upscaled Firstborn models for consistency. I think it works better from a marketing standpoint too - "Primaris Intercessors" just sounds like some CoD Zombies lore bullshit, but "Mark X Tactical Marines" sounds rad as hell. Not sure how I'd deal with the new grav vehicles though. There's no real compromise you can reach between a Predator Annihilator and a Repulsor Executioner. My best idea is to make them exclusive to certain vehicle/tech-obsessed chapters like the Iron Hands, or spread them out across all the loyalist founding chapters. (And if you're going that route, make sure the vehicles are actually strong. Imperial Fists would be pissed if they just got the Hammerfall Bunker with its current datasheet)

[@metroid308]

Just saw this video and I enjoyed it. I do love Primaris Marines, but I also do love the 30k Firstborn marines. I did find the original 40k sculpts a bit "derpy" but 30k is firstborn marines done very well. A small "nitpick" if you don't mind lol When you showed the images of firstborn still in 40k, you showed a pic of Grimaldus of the Black Templars. He actually is Primaris now, alongside Helbrect and The Emperor's Champion. All 3 of them are all Primaris now. Back when GW announced the new versions of the models, they said in that announcement page, that all 3 have crossed the Rubicon Primaris. They kept the old helmets but they are canonically Primaris now.

[@bullinator6299]

What I find interesting to ask is whether GW will release primaris scale CSM models in the future or not

[@km1157]

Yeah, I saw the games workshop website have the rhino was in stock on Friday

[@culturalliberator9425]

We had these guys for 30 years! How could they just replace their iconic units? I will not accept it. Edit: But yes, firstborn needed to get an upscale.

[@hobbesthebrainslug12]

I like the models kinda but they are just basically HALO guy

[@fionnmcaleer4830]

The Grey Knights rejected the primaris?

[@Nugundamsisntforshow]

Every grey knight is a psycers and there's a chance there geneseed comes directly from the emperor so primaris would be a downgrade in every aspect

[@craigerycocoa9669]

Yes, they rejected it. To add onto the last guys post, they also keep the manners of their organization a secret and do not trust the Primaris marines to maintain their values or keep their secrets. They will 100% replace the Grey Knights with an upscaled version in the future. More than likely once they’ve fleshed out the Primaris to the point when there are no first born available. At that point there’ll be more people complaining about how they are small rather than collectors who want them to remain unchanged. Especially if they go the Primaris route and wipe the details from the Grey Knights, which is arguably the best parts of their kits. I buy GK kits just for some of their parts.

[@liamalmond1914]

Overall i like the primaris model range. There are some im not a fan of like inceptors and the impulsor but that was true of the firstborns. Main thing i dont like is the lore change. They could have just rescaled and called all the new models a step forward in technology and a new codex issued by guilliman explaining the more specialised nature

[@jdstudios1912]

There's always Horus heresy models and they're so dank.

[@PlushHIT]

I think overall primaris are prettier, tho I do love grungy aesthetic of squat marines and I think it was a big miss not to implement this aspects of design to primaris, considering how big of a deal relics of the old time is in 40k. Maybe giving primaria more and more customization options is a good thing to return a flavour of old marines yet making them look actually good for someone not familiar with 40k in the first place. You don't see these weird screwed up proportiona of sm models in old art so you shouldn't see it in models

[@dittmar104]

I feel like a majority of models can be run as hearsay units but I digress

[@HomelessFish139]

I HATE PRIMARIS

[@jellydamgood]

Honestly just need one of those.... dark mechanicum forges, aka a 3dprinter.