50 Marines vs 12 Ultralisks - Similar Mineral Cost - StarCraft Retro Battles

[@djmacross]

Combine with medics to use as much gas as the ultras

[@underfall2749]

Imagine ultras with movement speed in sc2 that’s scary

[@maroxian6341]

creep?

[@enceo808]

+ aoe damage

[@yalnız053]

they have a movement speed upgrade in starcraft 2, i think the ultralisks from brood war get 50% extra speed with the upgradre, ultralisks in sc2 get 30% extra speed on the creep, and 20% extra speed with the upgrade only if they are outside of the creep

[@maroxian6341]

@@yalnız053 oh right. Still ultra is in my opinion a little bit broken. Sure it is technically worse than Thor cause it can't shoot at air units. In straight battle ultra also loses vs Thor... BUT, Thors are so damn slow. Its painfull. Coolest terran unit with great voiceline (my favourite in whole game), tons of dmg and just looks cool, but is mostly useless, cause everyone can simply outrun it while ultra is a big, fast, chunky zergling....

[@caelestigladii]

@@maroxian6341 And yet ultras are one of the worst units in game, and thors are situationally useful. Mech in general is not as good as bio. Hopefully the latest buff will make ultras somewhat useful.

[@unskilled822]

cool it seems Stimpack actually makes them deal less DPS due to their health being drastically reduced maybe if they had every single upgrade except for stimpack they'd probably kill few more ultralisks

[@rohdri]

More DPS, but less time to deal it in, yes.

[@roastedlion1]

Thats why they have to team up with medics

[@craigmcpherson1455]

Ultralisks will kill a marine in two hits with or without using stimpacks. It's the armor upgrade that significantly reduces the marine DPS.

[@dewinmoonl]

no it doesn't change it. ultra does 20 normal damage, marine has health of 40. 2 hit kill if no upgrades. stim deals 10 self damage, leaving marine with 30 health. still 2 hit from ultralisk

[@524silverstripes]

That last fight made me think of the heart of the swarm opening cutscene, just a ton of ultralisks barreling through the marines

[@petervlcko4858]

I like how Zerg can grow all sort of things out of freaking crystals. And how mutalisks can still fly with punctured wing.

[@momom6197]

When I was a kid I was playing Zerg and my brother was playing Terran, and he told me that 12 ultras beat 12 battlecruisers... I was disappointed.

[@dewinmoonl]

i mean, you could've just kill his entire base lol. battlecruisers move so slowly you can just kill his base

[@louieosumo]

Marine: you want a piece of me boy?

[@dewinmoonl]

the informal conversion of mineral:gas is something like 2:1. adjust this ratio and try again

[@Pravanul]

I kind of wanted to see the ultras surrounded by marines and how that'd play out as well, but it definitely proves a lot of well known historical facts 1. Surrounds is godly. It was the greatest factor in swinging advantage 2. Range is king. When you doubled up, the marines did vastly better because they could get more attacks in while ultras were limited by their frontline. 3. Armor can be better than DPS. It's definitely not strictly true, but that ultra armor and movement speed gave them a stronger edge than marine DPS and range highlights how powerful of effects these defensive/supportive metrics are.

[@kristianjensen5877]

Generally range also wasn't a factor in these battles. Marines "pay" resources for having ranged attacks but that trait is completely nullified in these scenarios where the Ultralisks immediately can get into close range and deal massive damage. If the terrain was at a choke point or even with scattered blocking terrain instead of being in an open field, the outcome would likely be less one-sided.

[@Pravanul]

@@kristianjensen5877 That's adding in environmental factors and skew results. Being open field, a controlled and neutral variable, gives more accurate results. This shows us actual range vs melee. Not ranged with environmental protection vs melee. Also they weren't nullified at all. We're talking about the literal first unit of the game vs the highest tier zerg unit, designed to be a tank at that

[@kristianjensen5877]

@@Pravanul But if one unit is designed around there being environmental factors to take advantage of (eg. ranged units), then the lack of these factors skews the scenario in favor of the opposing unit largely independent of environmental factors. It just doesn't accurately depict how effective the units are in comparison seeing one unit is fighting in suboptimal conditions for their fighting style while the other is operating under their optimal conditions. It's a perfectly valid experiment as a DPS race, but it leads to inaccurate general conclusions.

[@Pravanul]

@@kristianjensen5877 They weren't designed around environmental factors. Environmental factors is a universal tactics that exists throughout all of history. They're not unique to marines nor do anything they have are specificially made with environment in mind. Choke points and funnels is a universal strategy. You have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. Stop thinking you understand things you don't dunning-kruger. But I expect nothing less from bronze league nobodies who always think they're masters of strategy lmao. Go away now.

[@Pravanul]

@@kristianjensen5877 If you need an example of how stupid you are... marines vs zerglings in an open field, this exact scenario from this exact creator, despite "marines not having environmental advantage" (hint advantage) vs "environmental independent zerglings", by your shitty bronze league logic, zerglings should have the mechanical edge. Despite that, with exact equal costs, marines fucking destroy zerglings and lose only 10% of their number. At all points. Only when lings have a surround advantage can they win, and only barely at 40%. Extra tactical advantages like environmental elements such as chokes don't give an actual scientifically accurate experiment. They're called controlled variables for a reason. Now fuck off loser.

[@jantheman9999]

New Starship Troopers movie is looking great

[@SeanKula]

Imagine if Ultralisks had stimpak.

[@caelestigladii]

Imagine if marines had 400hp and 6armour. 😂

[@SeanKula]

@@caelestigladii Jesus Christ you've doomed us all. God tier unit right out the barracks? Now what to do with the zealot?

[@bongmatho]

Your video is very academic and analyitic and provide many aspects of the battle so that it requires me to think mathematically thanks a lot i subscribed

[@GGRetroBattles]

Thanks!

[@AutomationDnD]

_Never knew what Hit'em_ ... Damn, ...those marines never stood a chance

[@momom6197]

HERE COME THE MAMMOTHS!

[@2010Zanoza2]

How about the same cost of fully upgraded tanks? Or goliaths with tanks. Cause if the Zerg has this huge amount of elephants, 25*6 is 150 limits, the terran will have 1.5 stacks of battlecruisers and clear all the map from zergs invasion.

[@petervlcko4858]

Elephant take only 4

[@TW-fs3fj]

Marines: Akshually☝🤓 we're the most cost effective air/ground DPS unit in the game Ultralisk: 🍽

[@mf_________]

Starship troopers: the bad guys win edition

[@bongmatho]

I love your video

[@BrokenSymetry]

This test is pointless. 12 Ultralisks costs much, much more resources than 50 marines, of course they'll win. What's the logic behind these arbitrary numbers of units?

[@HOPE18345]

Superman returns

[@황인욱-o9s]

Ultrarisk should get splash damage. even if SC1

[@unskilled822]

they should have Firebat splash or something like that

[@Askhat08]

Yeah? So Protoss players would quit the game entirely?

[@ferreira991]

@@Askhat08 then high templar storm should be energy free.

[@lexeleister4618]

man this was just a marine massacre hard to watch they popped like bubbles

[@joseignaciopenz6021]

Haha marines goes AHAGHH

[@zer0nix]

Beetle backed elephantine carnifexes > butt wagglers

[@garrycahilig7007]

Do scvs vs probes 😅

[@OregonFlunder47]

This is probably the dumbest comparison I have ever seen. How about 50 marines vs 25 archons? Same mineral cost!

[@GGRetroBattles]

It's been over a decade since I read any BW balance discussions, but mineral-only comparisons are only done with units where mineral cost >= gas cost. Does that still apply today, or no?

[@sambudryu]

@@GGRetroBattles Normally 1 Vespine gas is considered as 2 minerals, or in some cases equal. Units also can be compared by supplies they require. At least that's what people do in Korea.

[@ArticWolfas]

artosis still use marines againts ultralisks

[@ЧарльзЛару]

Marines has not chance. Sad but true

[@hedgehog8211]

Why are we still here? just to suffer?

[@123TauruZ321]

Why did you not use upgrades?

[@GGRetroBattles]

Level 3 marine attack is nullified by level 3 carapace, and ultra will always 2-hit marines (1-hit when they use stim twice). Equal upgrades are pointless in this fight.

[@123TauruZ321]

@@GGRetroBattles Thanks for answering. I get the nullify point, but they still do damage when shooting two times. There's a calculation there. But it wouldn't do much damage.

[@DarkWestYT24]

Very Unfair

[@jonessoda4me1]

This is dumb, 50 Marines vs Ultralisks is not a match, it’s a slaughter.

[@malicerush9293]

No balance

[@제이-b9l]

이건 좀..

[@tylerwinkle323]

ok ok we get it sc pathfinding sucks sheesh