53-equal Luma MKI: around a drone on middle C

A lot of mostly 5-limit and 7-limit near-just harmony revolving around the note C. A nice amount of comma movements, and indeed in 53-equal that single step comma is very versatile, acting as 80:81, 63:64, as well as 2025:2048, 524288:531441, and a rather wide kind of chorus, as demonstrated by the late George Secor on his Scalatron back in the day.
Improvised fairly freely on the Lumatone using the MKI preset in Pianoteq tuned to 53-equal. Some little stutters when for some reason the Lumatone thinks I'm playing at max velocity during a held chord.
My book "Microtonality in 55 keys", a guide to intervals, scales, chords on generalised keyboards and how to use them in a wide range of microtonal tunings, is available on my website here (follow the PayPal link)
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Get in touch if you want to organise lessons on keyboards, audiation, microtonality, or just want to learn more about music in general:
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[@russellentrikin4893]

nice! my brain is always expecting it to launch into a microtonal cover of "Everything In Its Right Place"

[@camtaylormusic]

Definitely one part of the inspiration here...

[@ArenElliott]

This is just insane. 31-TET has some off-key sounding chords, but this just sounds divine. It's just too beautiful.

[@camtaylormusic]

53 definitely has some ugly as hell sounds too, but if you know where to go, you can either use them or avoid them pretty easily. I guess the same is true in any tuning, but here you have more options, and many more of them are closer to 13-limit JI, which is always a big bonus. In this video I mostly just stuck to the 5- and 7-limit ratios around C here, and idk whether I even used much of an /7 sound at all, so things like 1/1 16/15 10/9 9/8 7/6 6/5 5/4 21/16 4/3 7/5 3/2 14/9 8/5 5/3 27/16 7/4 16/9 9/5 15/8 etc. Which is pretty lovely in any 22, 31, 34, 41, 50, 58, or 72, but rather smooth here

[@izabelazielak8963]

Insane,,,Flügel klingt als fallende Regentropfen,Orgel und Keyboard als Wind in den Bäumen, das 🛐

[@angelbarrios2882]

the phone is a paid actor

[@camtaylormusic]

Hahaha

[@SidShakal]

no kidding! it sounded on-beat, and i think at the top of a measure too? 😄

[@benyamind]

It's pretty damn clear to me that 53 is just the mother temperament. Even when you cluster small steps or go low it just has this ethereal piercing void that shines and spirals through all the notes. It also practically the only temperament where I'm not bothered by the notes being technically out of tune. Sure, there are temperaments where you can zone that aspect out pretty well.. like 12, 31 etc.. but in 53 it's effortless.. it just feels right in a primal way. Your playing is fantastic man.

[@henrikljungstrand2036]

I suppose it is because the octaves and fifths are pretty much perfect, and so is everything even remotely consonant in the 3-limit. And also the 5-limit thirds and sixths are almost perfect, just a wee bit out of tune. Plus 7-limit intervals are fine, and 11-limit intervals are decent, and 13-limit intervals (minus those based on 7 and especially 11) are good. It seems that 53edo was discovered in antiquity by Chinese music theorists. Or at least the chain of 53 pure fifths was discovered by them to be almost closing as a circle, modulo pure octaves.

[@G8tr1522]

​​@@henrikljungstrand2036 i get an intense sadness when i hear about Chinese music theorists. We could have learned so much if it weren't for Mao and the CCP. And just to think of all the knowledge and secrets lost from ancient indian cultures. Surely they were experimenting with all kinds of tunings.

[@punpcklbw]

53-TET is a lot closer to just intonation than 12-TET, so it definitely can sound more natural.

[@mattwinward3168]

1:34 I like how the camera started autofocus cycling exactly on beat and to the beat.

[@user-ey1wf9iw3i]

The best 53-equal music I found!

[@llub888]

This makes me want a Lumatone so bad

[@aman-mn5kc]

This is very relaxing

[@Mr.Meowgical]

I love floating upon this cloud. I could live here.

[@The-Real-Kapi]

This is ideal music to abandon society to: I love it

[@stavats]

This is very pleasant to listen to, and it's very satisfying to hear the more dissonant notes nailed concordantly. On top of that, your playing is smooth and and colorful. Thank you for this

[@chimney3938]

this washed over me and saved my day, you have godly talent

[@jabakado]

This is sublime. Is that your cell phone on vibrate chiming in at the same tempo early in the video?

[@camtaylormusic]

Yeah, oops. I should probably have taken out my phone audio and just kept Pianoteq, but kinda funny how these John Cage-esque moments can inform how or what you play

[@camtaylormusic]

You're right, it is so close to my tempo!

[@DrowningUpsideDown]

7:05 this sound!!! incredible

[@camtaylormusic]

The comma cluster in the melody, or the harmonic series chords after, approx (2:3:4):7:8:9:12?

[@DrowningUpsideDown]

@@camtaylormusic I'm betraying my lack of music theory here but I think it's the comma cluster - the way you trilled those three notes with your right hand? Coupled with that chord it has such an amazing sense of tension and texture!!!

[@camtaylormusic]

@@DrowningUpsideDown love commas, and 53-equal is a nice resolution where even three notes a (23c) comma apart can be perceived as the same basic pitch class, so one gets "one big blurry mega note" instead of a big chaotic mess of different notes. Keen to use them in more of playing but sometimes they're tricky to play ergonomically on the keyboard

[@smokingclove5769]

i'm considering buying a lumatone and learning exactly this... this was wonderful

[@thexenzone]

Damn, those beatings! I like this new angle too.

[@danterosati]

beautiful!

[@ramiolsen]

Oh my, Cam, this is exquisite! We need to make a song out of this! (With maybe some 11- and 13- sprinkles added?)

[@jessenebeker4942]

Yes, that needs to happen!! How's the album coming?

[@adctm]

Love this

[@ryzikx]

ive never truly delved into microtonal, but you make me want to start now haha

[@camtaylormusic]

Start with quarter-comma meantone I'd say, great place to start learning, and everything ties back into the usual canon of western harmonic practice

[@eboone]

so cool

[@stephenweigel]

Delicious

[@dimitrireinhart]

Damn, so that's why most Microtonal people keep trying different tunings... There's always a better one! This sound very very good tho, I'll try going from 31 to 53 for my next composition . Hopefully it'll sound half as good as this :p

[@MrMemes21]

Incredible

[@cgibbard]

Fantastic! :)

[@PeterJDeVault]

Very cool. Where do you suggest I start to learn about different temperaments?

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

I'd have to say right here sounds like a start . . . .

[@Ronkz]

you can learn from the XenWiki, just try starting with a little because there is so much there

[@angelbarrios2882]

jesus those slightly expanded octaves blew my mind!!!!

[@sagandalya108]

Appreciate that you didn't take the unlistenable route. Are there some specific modulations where you end up in an odd key compared to the orginal C?

[@camtaylormusic]

Certainly. Some of the oddest but still reasonably related in 53-equal in the key of C include: C// =\\Db, e.g. 36/35, 40/39, 45/44 //Db, e.g. 13/12 \\D, e.g. 11/10 //D = \\Eb, e.g. 15/13 //E = \\F, e.g. 13/10 //F = \\Gb, e.g. 15/11 or 11/8 //F# = \\G, e.g. 16/11 or 22/15 //G = \\Ab, e.g. 20/13 //A = \\Bb, e.g. 26/15 //Bb, e.g. 20/11 \\B, e.g. 24/13 //B = \\C, e.g. 35/18, 39/20, 88/45 But one can end up in any one of 53 keys, depending on the modulation.

[@leotard2536]

I don't understand how this instrument works. It seems like the white keys are the 12tet keys like on the piano, but I don't understand how the other rows of keys fit in. Some seem to be aligned on the left-right axis, but probably play different notes, right?

[@camtaylormusic]

The instrument is really just a midi controller, and with the editor you can program a colour, a midi number and channel for each key. So really any key can be any note you like. But I like the default Bosanquet layout, where like you said, it is sort of an extended piano layout, with the left-right axis moving in whole steps, e.g. Bb-C-D, the slightly-right-but-almost-vertical axis moving in chromatic semitones/sharps e.g. Cb-C-C#, and the down-right axis moving in diatonic semitones, e.g. B-C-Db. Because I have it in 53-equal here, you can move quite far away from the central white "natural" row before ending up with any enharmonic equivalents, since they are all 53 fifths away, instead of 12. I like colouring the natural row white, accidentals that split those naturals (like on the piano) black, and then using the usual rainbow colours ROYGBIV to show micro pitch height/intonation, warmer colours = slightly higher pitch, cooler colours = slightly lower pitch.

[@pajzd]

@@camtaylormusic i had a look at the lumatone controller software, just to check how things are organised ... but i never saw a mention of flats/sharps (quartertones & further ) ... only indeed ... midichannels 1-16, midinotes ON/OFF 0-127, so i guess it is in the software (pianoteq?) that the conversion is going on midinote->frequency ? ... i'm trying to map a push ( 8 x 8 ) 64 pads into a fraction of a lumatone , maybe using 2 pushes to have a 128 key 'lumapush' ( 1/2 of a lumatone :) ) but first i got to distribute 41 ( 53-12) tones to ET53 frequencies ... do you have some documentation or file (scala ? ) with the mappings of yr lumatone in ET53/pianoteq ... obviously i have no lumatone, maybe when it is connected to the software/editor , other options appear, enlighten me , really beautiful piece thnx !

[@camtaylormusic]

@@pajzd indeed, the Lumatone itself and the software only maps a particular key to a particular midi number on a particular midi channel, with any hex colour you like, and options for which type of controller, or whether you like the lights to brighten on touch. You can store tem of those "mappings" (midi and colour data only basically) onboard, meanwhile your audio software has to do the rest. For me, I've only ever successfully used Pianoteq, and it's pretty much been a breeze. You can just load scala files with the ET cent values, or JI ratios you want in each octave. The long answer is a bit longer still, but maybe will fill in more details later.

[@pajzd]

@@camtaylormusic thanx man, yeah i'll have a look at pianoteq, just for the mapping or the conversion 2 frequencies & organisation, i'm doing it myself-diy in supercollider & of course, still have to figure out if push can do that ... i believe i read only the last push could do mpe /microtonal ... fun times !

[@KnzoVortex]

10:53 Whew...

[@anorthkey]

i have little nightmares (the game) flashback listening to this, but i don't think any of its music might be microtonal (that also might be because of the slightly out of tune music box in End of the hall )

[@monkmarv9304]

I love this style! Scrumptious harmonies. Would you consider exploring 65 TET? Im having an obsession with it but don't have the tools, really love the way you explore tunings.

[@camtaylormusic]

65 is great for (5-limit) schismatic, though I didn't think it looked that great in higher limits, especially compared to 41 and 53. The keyboard is usually best when keeping close or just below the 56 per octave usual mapping limit, but maybe I can use a 53-tone set in 65 with a wide fifth or two... Haven't set up any Lumatone files for 65 yet, but will have a go soon, thanks!

[@camtaylormusic]

Just had another quick look at the raw numbers for 65, and though it's as I remember for primes 2, 3, 5, it misses 7 and 13 by almost as much as possible, and actually does pretty well on 11, 19, 23, 29 and 31. 17 is usable but not fantastic. One sort of problem with schismatic in 65-equal is the distance of most of these mappings. Prime 11 needs -30 fifths, 23 needs +18 fifths, 29 +22 fifths, and 31 +29 fifths, I think, so a reasonable distance on the keyboard. I have heard 53+65=118 is pretty fantastic though, so I will have a little experiment with both (probably 53-tone subsets, as long as I can find my way around). Any other reasons why you like 65 besides schismatic and 5-divisability?

[@monkmarv9304]

My goal was pretty underwhelming lol just a good 5-lim approximation, but with sharp major third and major eight, flat minor third and minor eight (compare to 5-lim intervals). Im just trying to push in the chord expressive definitions of 12tet, which major chords are bright, minor chords are gloomy and such that. Of course it is with the assumption that raising pitch makes it “brighter” in my case. Although thinking again 58tet (or 46tet) would make the interval differences more noticeable. Oh well, im still interested in how 65tet’s better 5-limit approx differ in expressiveness.

[@monkmarv9304]

Just noticed you also have 58 and 46 TET videos! I would say I enjoyed 58TET alot.

[@camtaylormusic]

@@monkmarv9304 even though 46 and 58 look somewhat sub-par on paper in the 5-limit compared to, say, 53-equal or even 34-equal, they perform really well, and I think the diaschismatic family formed along the 22&12 line: ... 22, 56, 34, 80, 46, 58, 70, 12, ... is pretty cool, and most of its tunings share some similarities, with the fifths and major thirds (primes 3 and 5) pushing just slightly wide, and a great approximation of prime 17 formed by the new fusion of 15:16 and 128:135, i.e. the semi-tone! I actually really like 34-equal here, and I think if you like 46 and 58, you will like that too, although going to 56 and 22 and the tuning gets pushed a little far for my ears, with our 9;10 now a submajor second, the usual comma 80;81 now a quarter-tone or so, and so classic 5-limit harmonies sound a little twisted. I think along that line, going past 58 or 34 for me goes beyond the optimal tunings, but they're still definitely interesting flavours. What do you mean by minor and major eight? Do you perhaps mean major and minor seven instead?

[@melodYEcho]

i swear this is the tuning my brain uses

[@camtaylormusic]

Most ear-brains know about simple JI at least, so that makes a lot of sense. This is one of the most JI-like ETs out there.

[@melodYEcho]

@@camtaylormusic from what I researched, most of the system is only a cent off of ji. I also like the various flavors

[@punpcklbw]

This looks like an alien keyboard 👽 I wonder how deep knowledge of music theory is required to compose music for this temperament?

[@camtaylormusic]

Not that much. In fact you could probably work it out with no theory, no experience on an instrument but lots of listening experience. This is essentially Pythagorean tuning (pure octaves, fourths and fifths), but with enough notes that the circle closes and you also essentially get a lot of other near-pure intervals. One theoretical step that can help is the 5-limit lattice/tonnetz, containing all of the 5-limit pitches, intervals and triads. Most of the harmony in this video here comes from that lattice in the local area around the tonic (with a few 7-limit variations thrown in for fun)

[@punpcklbw]

​@@camtaylormusic ok I guess music theory turns into a bit of group theory with this tuning 😄 Seeing that this approximates Pythagorean tuning well, I suppose as soon as you get your Pythagorean thirds right, things should work out naturally.

[@camtaylormusic]

@@punpcklbw the cool thing is, all the Pythagorean intervals are laid out right there as you expect on the keyboard, but you actually don't have to choose the Pythagorean thirds, and you can actually have 10 different sizes of "third"!

[@punpcklbw]

​@@camtaylormusic yeah, I've watched a video about that "infra-minor" "ultra-major" madness, certainly there's plenty of thirds to choose from 😁 Does it sound good though if you mix Pythagorean intervals with just intonation, for instance?

[@bigbang259]

out of the harmony, what is it? so many notes and more out if the harmony than 12edo

[@camtaylormusic]

Can you explain what you mean by "out of the harmony"? Do you mean notes outside of the tonality, or microtonal passing notes, or something else? Of course with 53 notes per octave, one has a lot more options than with 12, some of them lock in better, some worse, and some sound like they're from another universe, but almost every note can fit in some way against every other bass note, if you find the right context.

[@bigbang259]

@@camtaylormusic i thought it was supposed to sound clearer with more noted per octave. Many chords sound like notes don't fit

[@camtaylormusic]

@@bigbang259 it totally depends what you play. And it totally depends which notes. 53-equal has many notes remarkably close to JI, meaning simpler, more rested sounding harmonies than in 12-equal, and while I used some of those, I also used a few more spicy harmonies too. Bigger doesn't always mean cleaner though, as traditional tertian harmonies in 12 still sound cleaner than similar harmonies in 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, or 18-equal. 19-equal improves on most of them.

[@embryolk2770]

This improvisation makes me cream my pants its so damn awesome