34-equal Luma: a little sentimental

[@mr88cet]

Best-ever work or not, I like it! Well done, Cam! Thanks for sharing that. I've always found 34TET intriguing, because it's like a house cat: It has cuddly, cozy thirds, fifths, fourths, and sixths, but it's also a wild animal at heart, being two interleaved 17TET scales!

[@xiaomoli5]

the first minute-ish sounds like a distant cousin of bach’s Eb minor prelude 💛💛 gorgeous!

[@camtaylormusic]

I love the Eb minor prelude! One of my first times playing it was in (septimal) meantone, where the minor triads sound subminor, incredibly dark and moody.

[@jabakado]

This sounds like it should be impossible in a non-meantone tuning. Brilliant.

[@camtaylormusic]

You can pretty clearly hear the syntonic comma all over the place here, but maybe not in the way you're expecting. Try it yourself. It's not about "hiding" or "fudging" the comma, but moving around the (5-limit) lattice in a satisfying way

[@jabakado]

@@camtaylormusic Totally -- I hear it. I'm just surprised at what you're able to pull off before I do. I'm also surprised that the comma doesn't bother me. I've heard people talk about it like something to avoid, and I had internalized that expectation. I try to avoid it in my own playing. I don't know whether you're trying to avoid it or not (are you?), but anyway when it happens, it just sounds like another cool thing.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Back here for another listen. Once again, I am impressed by how clean 34EDO sounds -- although it has a repertoire of xenharmonic intervals, it is also capable of sounding totally non-xenharmonic. Not what you need for higher limits, but for 5-limit harmony, it's the cleanest equal temperament short of 53EDO.

[@camtaylormusic]

34-equal kills at the whole 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.23 group! People only tend to look at it in the 5-limit, but if you ignore prime 19, you pretty much get everything you're looking for, and Everything is a tad sharp, so it all has this fresh, sparkly kind of sound. Plus having two circles of 17 is handy as hell, some very easy ways to modulate to weird places if you want.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@@camtaylormusic . . . Except that it is pretty flat on the 7th harmonic, almost the same as on the 19th harmonic. That said, if you use the 34d alternate val, then the 7th harmonic at least gets tempered to something decently consonant, and consistent with the other higher limit stuff that is also (mostly) moderately sharp, which is not so bad considering that we put up with moderately sharp 5th harmonic in 12EDO all the time (although again at least that tempers to something decently consonant, if a bit dull). Or maybe even extend to 34dH to get the alternate sharp 19. So 34d(h) would be fine as long as most of your intervals are 5 limit and you just have a sprinkling of higher limit stuff, preferably in notes that are not too sustained. Also, I should once again add that I am impressed by your ability to improvise and play so many different tuning systems (and keyboard layouts) on the fly.

[@camtaylormusic]

@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Yes of course, 34d is what I was referring to, as I personally rather dislike the sound of 34p, with the flatness of 7 contrasting nastily with the sharpness of everything else. 20c error on 19 sounds pretty off to me, but some ears can handle it. To me it makes sense to just leave 19 out of the picture, and then you get a lot of clarity and some really fine connections. Obviously fourths and fifths are good enough to sound almost just, two, three, four, five and six fifths down gets 7/4=16/9, 7/6=13/11, 14/9=25/16=11/7, 33/32=28/27=27/26=26/25=25/24=24/23=23/22=22/21, 11/8=18/13=25/18=32/23. And that's just one chain of 17-equal. 34 is still one of my favourite equal tunings, even though I have only played it using this slightly non-isomorphic two-ring layout.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@@camtaylormusic I suppose you wouldn't want to use the sharp 19th harmonic by itself unless it tempers to some decent alternative (which I haven't checked for yet the way I have for the 7th), but in combination with another sharp harmonic (actually the corresponding subharmonic) it might be fine. Would like to test 19/14 or something like that.

[@camtaylormusic]

@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio yes 14:19 is almost perfect if you like the sound of a weirdly sharp fourth.

[@mistotance4016]

the moment around 5th min, woow

[@camtaylormusic]

Where order emerges from that chaos huh? The comma blur was initially a mistake but I tried to turn it into something. Glad it was somewhat effective.

[@SilvaMorasten]

@@camtaylormusic (I replied under "Místo tance" cause I'm sitting at the company's user without ads right now) Actually I would describe it rather like increasing tension at 4:54, releasing it at 5:11.. I have goosebumps definitely from this process! Sometimes mistakes lead to brilliant concepts

[@mr88cet]

Do you have a brief description somewhere (or a web page perhaps?) that describes your 34TET Lumatone keyboard layout? I don't see anything in the color pattern that might suggest a dual circle of fifths, for example...?

[@camtaylormusic]

Single ring of 17-equal: dark blue flats Gb-Bb, white naturals F-B, dark red sharps F#-A#. The other ring of 17- here is all shifted up 1\34, black upflats=downsharps /Gb-/Bb=\F#-\A#, light red naturals /F-/B (/E=\F and /B=\C), and light blue upsharps=down-naturals /F#-/A#=\G-\B.

[@mr88cet]

@@camtaylormusic, ah ah ah, I see it now. Thanks, Cam! I was expecting an interleave somewhat like the 24TET factory preset, with the diatonic semitone dropping down two rows. I haven’t thought it through, but in 34TET, you might have to drop down _three_ rows, which would obviously be impractical. This mapping seems more like a vertical split, essentially, between the two circles of fifths - a continuous horizontal flow for each circle. That might be more … suggestive … of playing more within each 17TET split, which might encourage using the more-daring-sounding 17TET thirds.

[@stephenweigel]

Wow, Cam, this is so beautiful! Do you write choral music?

[@camtaylormusic]

Not much, but I've had a little experience with barbershop quartet, sextet, and have written a little choral arrangement for a friend recently for one of the songs on an upcoming album. Would be keen to do more for sure.

[@mr88cet]

Cam, 再一次听，发现了桌子上的中文报纸；请问你也会说汉语吗？

[@camtaylormusic]

Not very well I'm sorry to say 我看不懂，我只会说一点汉语！But I think I get what you meant, 那是日本语的报纸。我以前住在日本。我会说日本语可是汉语是太难了！

[@mr88cet]

@@camtaylormusic, 😂, I at least perceive that Japanese is _even more difficult_ than Chinese, so all the more reason to be impressed with Cam Taylor! My wife is from Harbin in Northern Manchuria, and we most speak Mandarin at home (Austin, TX, USA).