The Absurdist Optimism of Terry Pratchett's Hogfather

[@cryptic89]

"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people that do." - Angus, Night in the Woods

[@ErnstHeinze-iw4gq]

THIS!!!! Thanks!

[@thetribunaloftheimaginatio5247]

"...You're not allowed to do that." "THE HOGFATHER CAN. THE HOGFATHER GIVES PRESENTS. THERE'S NO BETTER PRESENT THAN A FUTURE."

[@marocat4749]

Death is great, like he has to fulffill his role but really hen he can tweaks things . Like when "i am not death, now, i can do that" Best death, alo how he i confused,questions himself,life, and is very human in that, why he admires human.

[@thetribunaloftheimaginatio5247]

@@marocat4749 Death is a guardian of life for two reasons- first, he finds living creatures fascinating. Two, without life he's out of a job. After all... nothing can die if it first does not live. And The Auditors Of Reality, disgusted by the inherent absurdities of living things, seek to "restore order" by erasing all life from existence. The Auditors represent the laws of physics, and a universe that doesn't really give a rat's ass if an asteroid-strike or Global Thermonuclear War wipes out all life on this miserable little mudball. Death, a creation of the imagination of living things, seeks to mitigate that... after all, life may be "untidy," but it sure is interesting.

[@Piperreed222]

I cry every time I read this part and I think it's the reason why I reread it every year.

[@thetribunaloftheimaginatio5247]

@@Piperreed222 And all because Sir Pterry heard the tale of "The Little Match Girl" and said "Well, THAT'S really stupid. I'mma give it a HAPPY ending." Death: "TAKE HER SOMEWHERE WARM AND GIVE HER A GOOD DINNER. AND I MAY BE CHECKING IN FROM TIME TO TIME."

[@damenwhelan3236]

​@thetribunaloftheimaginatio5247 I find ot very very ironic in that the auditors only exist because a person

[@kecenavrtep]

"There are times in life when people must know when not to let go. Balloons are designed to teach small children this"

[@aroha9090]

Oh I miss Terry Pratchett so much! It's been a while since I last read Hogfather, but one of my favourite parts was at the end *spoilers following* When Mr Teatime (the assassin) is threatening the children that Susan takes care of, he's in their house, playing a deadly mind-game with her. He's confident the children will be terrified of Death and will trust him (allowing him to hurt them easier) but the children aren't bothered by Death at all. They call Mr Teatime the monster, and they say that Death's 'just a skeleton'. Their ability to identify the real monster in that moment says so many different things, about how Susan has treated them, about their instincts, about how Death isn't something to fear. God, I really really miss the days when we could look forward to a new Discworld book. RIP Terry.

[@21700r]

My favored alternative to the word 'humanity', in the context of our feelings, ability to reason, essentially the distinguishing characteristics we use to set ourselves apart, when describing non-human beings is 'personhood'

[@5x5Takes]

personhood is a great word, I have to remind myself of it. Its perfect for so much on this channel

[@Rupert3434]

I disagree, if only because "personhood" tends to be used more in discussions of individual rights and freedoms, which don't always neatly map onto the feeling/caring faculties evoked with "humanity". Honestly I think a better substitution here would be "empathy".

[@5x5Takes]

@@Rupert3434 i feel like personhood and empathy are both things that can fit under “humanity”, as its more describing the entire human experience vs. feeling for others or vs. individual freedom/feelings

[@21700r]

@@Rupert3434 I can definitely see your point, however there are humans who have a diminished capacity for empathy due to trauma, mental health struggles, or simply the natural state of their brain chemistry or worldview, and even when it's frustrating to deal with I try not the imply an absence of humanity in association with that, it's too easy to twist that into stigmatization, and if we discount the behavior we find unconscionable or inhumane in others as something actually inhuman, we risk becoming worse at examing ourselves for signs of falling down the path to those behaviors. I also believe in a certain fluidity of language. Words have certain meanings and connotations, but they can gain new ones and lose old ones over time. Because of the etymology of personhood, despite its more common uses, I personally feel comfortable using it in this context

[@joshcarlton9184]

Of all the worst hoods to be stuck in

[@MLaak86]

That a personification of Death can come to realise what makes humanity 'special'/better than himself and share in those beliefs is a truly powerful statement. As is seeing the pure rage he directs at the Arbiters , and the power lent to him to destroy some of them, for trying to make their lives easier at our expense.

[@feildpres]

The speech that Death says to Susan after they have saved Hogfather, the one about Justice and Duty, that sort of thing, is the single most profound thing that I have ever experienced. It is something that has shaped my own philosophy and my own morality ever since I first read it Im glad to see one of my favorite KZbinrs was also shaped by this book and quote thank you for the wonderful video and Merry Christmas

[@miguelfonseca1104]

its pretty good right? but plato is even better

[@damenwhelan3236]

​@@miguelfonseca1104I've never cried reading Plato...

[@miguelfonseca1104]

@@damenwhelan3236 your tears are no metric of a systematic philosophy friend

[@smithynoir9980]

I only saw the scene for the first time recently. It has since pretty much changed my entire attitude toward tradition and belief. I regret not having watched / read Terry Pratchett's work when I was much, much younger.

[@daveknight8410]

Pretty good ! Ok some story's,But wow his best they outshine the other writers 🎉 😮😊 you will cry & laugh & understand & discover depth ❤ Plato was a 1 trick pony ( good but limited ) so enjoy life stop philosophising just think 🤔😉😂🤗❤❤

[@wildschuetzjaeger2316]

In memory of Terry Pratchett. He was the greatest author of modern fantasy. I enjoyed and still enjoy reading his discworld novels.

[@estebanrodriguez5409]

"What can the harvest hope for, if for the care of the Reaper Man?"

[@ugolomb]

I'm not sure Hogfather is my favourite Discworld book (there are many competitors), but it definitely contains my favourite Discworld quote (spoken, of course, by Death): "Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape."

[@Bazlair]

This made me remember and combine it with one of my favorite quotes from Babylon 5: "We are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out." Yes, there is no inherent justice or mercy in the Universe itself. But humanity is a part of that Universe and we can make it so that atleast something in the Universe cares.

[@lyndonwesthaven6623]

Death is such a sweetheart. I do feel kind of bad for how often his role in his books is about him wanting to get away from his job for a while

[@WyvernDukemon]

It does my cold heart good to see someone else not only love the Hogfather, but enjoy the complex yet also simple and relatable personification of Death that exists therein. A splendid breakdown, thank you for your efforts ^^ (and for your She-ra videos. They are proving very useful for hashing out fanfic thoughts and helping with characterization)

[@OutbackCatgirl]

i literally just subscribed literally like an hour ago and now you release a episode on one of my favourite books of my favourite book series ever created before I've even finished looking through all the content i hadn't seen yet this is the best Hogswatch ever

[@5x5Takes]

happy hogswatch and welcome to the channel!!

[@Irobert1115HD]

the version of death that sir pratchet invented was apparently so popular that he occasionaly got mail of folks that where terminaly ill and wished that death was exactly like he invissioned death.

[@samuelfawell9159]

I remember the day that his death was announced and how people where so heart broken (myself included), how someone came up with a “final scene” with Terry and Death, with Death trying to convince Terry to challenge him for a game so that he could be allowed to live, and the little narrative of Terry just going “it’s time for me to go, lead on good fellow”. And Terry and Death strode off into the desert under the midnight sky, for the next story to begin…

[@underneathoceans]

I had liked the Discworld books up until I read Hogfather. After reading it, I loved them. I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts on some of the other books in the series as well!

[@petrusjnaude7279]

Same here.

[@Piperreed222]

Night Watch is my favorite Discworld book. I think Pratchett is at the peak of his powers. Plus Nobby Nobbs as a little Gavroche is one of the best parts.

[@marocat4749]

Death is so kind, he even gave teatime what he wanted. Also yes that speech is so good at saying what makes human worth it, and why its important to have hope and believe that things are possible, that they can be someday. 💀🥰

[@someoneawesome8717]

This is a favorite of mine to read every Christmas and it is a wonderful reminder of why it is so important to be whimsical

[@plovergrrl]

One of my absolute favorite authors and one of my favorite books/ movies. I watch it every holiday season. Thanks for bringing light to it!

[@dalejenkins1427]

Well done. Death's soliloquy toward the end of Hogfather may be the most profound human statement I've ever read.

[@Alverant]

I listen to the audiobook version of Hogfather after Thanksgiving every year for a while and it never stops being awesome. The book does a wonderful job at showing the many aspects of the holiday including those who don't celebrate it and those who use it to their advantage. If you can find a copy of the audiobook at your local library, do check it out.

[@roza2633]

i never knew a thing about disc world or terry pratchett's works in general AND i don't like christmas but you did just make me tear up with this... loved the video, i hope you're having the best of time

[@TheJabbate1]

Terry Pratchett seems to have a way to make the mundane seem magical and the magical seem mundane.

[@NinaLanyon]

Not seem, but to see that the mundane is indeed magical.

[@grigori9061]

Something I’ve noticed that as people get older they stop paying attention to works affection as they see them as little more than waste of time but some of the most profound statements I have ever read or learned we’re from fictional books. The hogfather is just one example

[@NinaLanyon]

Really? I find that as I grow older that works of fiction have more ability to affect me than before.

[@grigori9061]

@@NinaLanyonyou misunderstand my point, my point is that as you get older, while you may understand, the lessons and themes in fictional works better than you did when you were younger, you’re less likely to pick up a fiction book Then you are a history book due to a variety of factors

[@NinaLanyon]

@@grigori9061 I should have made the point that I am not only more affected by fiction but I also read more of it now than before and less non-fiction.

[@nataliebland3078]

The Death novels in Discworld are always so heavy with significance

[@aurumvulpes2511]

This isnt really content for me but you deserve more algorythem love so here I am. Good effort and your voice is very comfy for long form content.

[@danrend4986]

It takes courage to believe. that is why it so precious and valuable. yes you can all call it faith.

[@MadassAlex]

Beautiful narration, interpretation, and video. I think Pterry would be very pleased.

[@Thegr8MC]

I love this miniseries so much (sorry, haven't read the book yet). It makes me so happy whenever I see someone else who's also heard of this series. I just love the line "You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" And that pretty much sums up why I continue to create art and fight for causes I believe in. A long time ago, someone imagined fantasy worlds of spaceships, sorcery and aliens. Now we have Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. A long time ago someone once envisioned a world where minorities, women and LGBT people had the same rights and freedoms as every other citizen. And now (despite all the obstacles along the way) marginalized groups are more accepted and embraced then ever before. The world may be cruel and indifferent but as long as we have artists and poets, intellectuals and activists all willing to fight for what is right then we can make this miserable existence a bit more bearable.

[@Alverant]

If you can, listen to the audiobook. The narrator does a great job.

[@Neutral_Tired]

"In the same way that your heart feels and your mind thinks: you, mortal beings, are the instrument by which the universe cares. If you choose to care, then the universe cares. If you don't, it doesn't." - Brennan Lee Mulligan

[@LadyAhro]

This is the only piece of Christmas media (save for Die Hard) that my Christmas hating partner likes and happily watches every year. (Since if you cut me in half you'd probably find a metric ton of Discworld book pages falling out. They helped form me growing up, and save for The Hogfather, which I own the DVD of, he got into the books on his own after nonstop exposure - or at least nightly exposure for several years as I use the audiobooks to treat my lifelong insomnia and tinnitus combo. Every single night I play a snippet of one of the books on a timer.)

[@dafezz92]

This was my introduction to The Discworld. In high school, I took a "Story of Movies" class and the teacher showed us this. I feel like this is a bit of a niche interest but I just love the novel/book. To me this would be essential reading. Belief is something we overlook as humans in my opinion. We believe there is justice, we believe that the Sun comes up...all this without concrete evidence that these things are what they are. What we believe in, is what what we work for and thus spreading to others. Good and Bad.

[@MrTrinomial]

It is my favorite "christmas" movie

[@TheSoundonly12]

The Hogfather never fails to make me cry.

[@MaximusOfTheMeadow]

Thank you, for making something beautiful If I can ask, who said that? Prove to the world what it could be, to show it what it can be. And most importantly, believe in yourself. You never know, maybe you can save someone's life I really like it

[@turtleman5405]

Huge! Merry Christmas!!

[@chairliftphilospher5710]

My favorite Christmas movie ever! I also love the book and it got me into discworld.

[@theone-tg4ey]

Disk world death is my favorite. Wonderful writing

[@RDawn]

woah. i completely forgot i saw this movie as a kid. i comepltely did not understand why my mother was showing it to us

[@syaamethyst1297]

Happy holidays!

[@vincentcleaver1925]

The fifth elephant was my favorite. I am there howling with gaspode...

[@pierregarigue1658]

Pratchett has a way of bringing in complex social and moral questions into a fantasy-comedy world.

[@kimberlytunkel4567]

I like how you analyzed this

[@Sashimi_luv]

I need to watch this movie

[@iagreewithyou3478]

Another thing Terry said in Discworld about belief is that simply believing in something but doing nothing won't get you anywhere.

[@jeramahia123]

Love that shout-out to Angel.

[@ianbruce6515]

I don't think I want to watch the mini series. The books are so deep, so true, so wise, so human--and so funny! I cannot imagine that a mini-series could rise to those heights.

[@carthienesdevilsadvocatenr2806]

That's it, I had it with this pixie lark...

[@steampunkerella]

a very important lesson

[@ctwofirst6635]

I'm in my 60s. I first read about Terry Pratchett's personification of Death many years ago. I hope that I will meet Mr Death when my time comes.

[@irishdc9523]

Sir Pratchett said once he'd get fanmail from terminally ill people who say that when they face death, they hope it's the version he created. He also said it would cause him to spend some time staring at the wall.

[@damenwhelan3236]

"Rabbits in waistcoats" I believed a reference to the Easter bunny. And is no more an invention than the hogfather, and, death himself.

[@KKPsi-TubaDawg]

Discworld is just brilliant!

[@flippinchips7495]

Terry is such a talented individual

[@eliotreader8220]

did Sir Terry Pratchett make a cameo in the movie playing one of his characters? because the guy behind the counter looks a bit like him

[@epicwalrus7183]

Yes! Terry played the toymaker cameo! He was very excited about it. The "Making of" mini docs are a delight.

[@eliotreader8220]

@ did he also play one of his characters in the movie Going Postal? That postman’s face who delivered a letter to the President of the city looked familiar.

[@epicwalrus7183]

@@eliotreader8220 I haven't seen that one yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was him.

[@_SomyaY]

What did you study in school to become able to give such great analysis on so many different show? Like i really look upto you, and i want to be able to the same too, to realise what impact media is having on me and and decoding the messages hidden and metaphors implied.

[@guitarfan01]

am I nuts, or is this in 360p?

[@BadgerOfTheSea]

The irony with death is that he himself is immortal. He is cursed to watch everything that exists to do the one thing that he is deprived of.

[@mahbuddykeith1124]

He was given time in Reaper Man, and he spent it well.

[@rulersaury]

I have so many feelings rn

[@andrewrockwell1282]

Love it

[@_SomyaY]

Can youtalk ab0ut keeper of the lost cites? Its a book series as of now, but disney announced its workjng on a screen script for it last year so the movie will come out soon

[@AngelusNielson]

GNU Sir Terry.

[@avrinrose5457]

Can you Talk About Kaitou Joker?

[@starwolf3020]

Read The "THE THIEF OF TIME " and "TRUTH" :)

[@tengu190]

Show me one atom of........

[@HafdirTasare]

How can one feel sympathy for Death? This one has a soft Spot for Cats. Enought said?

[@bruce9313]

Does anyone know who rhat last quote is by? Who this other absurdist hero is?

[@holyrod2001]

Angel, hence the face flash, and the quote is: "We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be."

[@natheria4933]

there's a part of me that understands where this mindset comes from, but another part of me is concerned that it may not be true. Perhaps that's because i was born and raised Christian. Though I've never really fully understood it, or always considered myself such, it feels like its becoming more and more clear to me that as time goes on, the need for god becomes greater and greater as evil people gain more and more power in this world and become more and more difficult to overthrow or defeat. I want to believe in the good of man, but at the same time i do not want that belief to fill me with an arrogance or pride that we think we are above everything else, or that we make the rules. Because I'm beginning to believe that we don't. That this is pride, and we tell ourselves these lies because we want to believe the world is ours, and that we don't have to answer really to anything. Nihilism potentially gives us an excuse to act immorally, and commit acts of evil. But that doesn't change the very real possibility that nihilists could be wrong, and there could in fact very much be a universal code of morality enforced by a higher power. When we go about our lives, we tend to blame god, or the universe, or fate on the misfortunes we experience. On the evil and bad in the world. But in truth, that misfortune, and that evil comes from us. From human beings. And often ones who believe whole heartedly that they are doing the right thing. That they are morally justified, or it comes out of a great hatred or fear towards others or other things in our world. We often bring the worst things we experience in existence upon ourselves. In essence, we create our own hell. I think that for there to be good it has to come from a source of good, and the good in man i think comes from a higher source. At least, that is what I am beginning to belief more as i become older. I think ultimately, the idea that logic and science alone can save us is foolish because in part it is what is destroying us even more. We are far more irrational, emotional, and chaotic than we try to convince ourselves of. It often feels to me that the only way to make a better world, and to save us is to put faith in something bigger then us. Something that does care.

[@braydoxastora5584]

absurd? hmmmm

[@darkomardetko1144]

if you haven't you should play the PC games - they're terrific

[@archibaldplum5171]

GNU STP

[@maxswenson6605]

I used to take my entire family on vacation to Myrtle Beach for the simple reason that I could spend a week sitting on the beach and read the latest Discworld book. Best decompress vacations ever.

[@miss.antidote]

I Love watching this every Xmas