6 Things I DISLIKE about D&D 5E

[@LordOz3]

A couple of things I do: Getting knocked out gives a character a level of exhaustion. Recovering a level of exhaustion requires a CON save, with the DC based on your accommodations (suddenly shelling out for that comfortable inn instead of sleeping on the ground outside makes a difference). Long rests don't restore hit points. Characters regains half their hit dice, round up, after completing a long rest.

[@Cloud_Seeker]

Just use the lingering Injuries system in the DMG. When you get knocked to 0HP roll on the table and get a permanent wound. It ranges from small scars to the loss of limbs. It is perfect for making 0HP a dreadful thing. It also makes boomeranging something you do not want.

[@dungeonessentials4961]

Why not both? Maybe roll a dice when you go unconscious: odds lingering injury, evens 1 level of exhaustion. Getting back up means you’re still down with a clear mechanical disadvantage that takes time and resources to mitigate. Toss in Short Rest healing with a Healers Kit only AND hit dice back on a long rest but not all the HP. Maybe toss in the resurrection rules Matt Mercer uses when you’re raised from the dead so death isn’t a revolving door but a story moment with uncertainty built in. Last campaign I DMed in a home brew world the gods had abandoned so no clerics period. That and these rules made for a more dangerous and dynamic story. Players were more strategic and crafty. Choices had clear consequences. And we had a lot of fun. A clear upfront session zero was key so no one was surprised when Revivify was not an option.

[@LordOz3]

I dislike the idea of letting the dice capriciously maim characters, plus every time you have to stop and roll on a table means slowing the game down. If your table is down for Lingering Injuries, go for it. I'm just not a fan, and exhaustion adds a simple means for reflecting the duress of getting knocked out and discouraging tubthumping.

[@robbnoble1509]

It's not that big of a deal. The dice are what decides injuries to begin with. The death saving throws can decide whether you live or die. In looking to alter a system that is far too forgiving, maiming is still better than death. It works because it adds consequence to being "downed", which currently has none.

[@IndyMotoRider]

@@LordOz3 A level of exhaustion does nothing during a battle. It's disadvantage on ability checks if I'm not mistaken. That does not include attack rolls or saving throws. You get 3 death saves which is 3 rounds that an ally can pop you up with a single bonus action healing word from range. If you dislike dice, don't use them, and just gather round the table and do your collaborative story.

[@hopefulhyena3400]

Honestly, sometimes my least favorite part of 5e is when you make literally any slight criticism of it and then get an extremely disproportionate negative reaction. A while ago I pointed out that even when adjusted for inflation, 5e is the most expensive d&d to play (a completely neutral statement) and I got reactions like I was kicking a child.

[@ruprecht8520]

That is more a complaint about the internet in general than 5E.

[@6MaxSix6]

Woah, they think there's something wrong with kicking a child? Have they ever met one?

[@3ron]

@@6MaxSix6 especially today the one things kids need most is a foot in their ass.

[@LadyGreyAgeingDisGracefully]

@@6MaxSix6 you certainly know the kids that don’t get a kick in the ass when they need one.

[@phoboskittym8500]

Its Because Wizards cultivated a new batch of players who are perpetually simping for wizards They probably don't play magic so are yet to experience the terrible business practices

[@JohnWass79]

If you think D&D 5e is very "kitchen sink," don't even consider Pathfinder 1e (and, I'm sure, 2e eventually). It takes the concept of the kitchen sink and somehow managed to fit a kitchen sink inside if it. I say this as a 7 year player and GM of Pathfinder.

[@hk47ray]

That's exactly what I thought too. One of the reasons I switched to DnD 5e was to have a more cohesive high fantasy setting with fewer options. Pathfinder's kitchen sink was just too much for me. I know you can limit your setting/player options and only include what you want in Pathfinder, but I'm also a sucker for the Forgotten Realms.

[@taragnor]

Yeah PF1 had a crazy amount of options. I mean you even had a wizard archetype that used scrolls like daggers and stabbed people with them in melee.

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

and i love it for that

[@JohnWass79]

@@theprinceofawesomeness I actually enjoy it, as well, up to a point. The openness of being able to make almost any character imaginable within the rules is great - as long as players (including the GM) remember that its a *role* playing game, not a *roll* playing game. :)

[@negative6442]

That's part of the reason I love Pathfinder as a player. The sheer amount of options available makes each new character feeling unique, and the DM telling me that I can't use a specific thing isn't really an issue for me because there's so many other things to choose from.

[@paulschirf9259]

Simply making a character take one level of exhaustion every time they drop to 0 hp and another level if the character fails 2 death saving throws, allowing only 1 hit die recovery per short rest, and not auto healing on a long rest, requiring hit die expenditure... helps make the game more like older versions and makes dropping to 0 hit points mean something.

[@Niksorus]

Damn, that's such an easy and elegant idea!

[@DichotomousRex]

Welp. My RAW game just became a homebrew game.Because this is going in...

[@davewilson13]

I made DEATH Saves as soon as you hit zero. So you can end up failing twice before anyone can get to you. I also made it DC 12 Con roll. Your Death Saves linger until a long rest. Passing death saves removes a one failure. Every time you’re down, you gain an exhaustion.

[@Elamdri]

I'd rather stab myself in the dick than play a game like that... I fucking hate death spiral systems.

[@bharl7226]

@@Elamdri Why? What's wrong with having a realistic sense of danger? That only enhances immersion.

[@ryanmckellar6020]

I'm watching this while Nate works about 30 ft away in his office.... :P

[@wigginsnemisis]

Prove it. Take a pic of you smooching his scalp :}

[@ryanmckellar6020]

@@wigginsnemisis Haha! I doubt he would allow it! :P

[@WASD20]

Ryan, get back to work! Said the man browsing KZbin comments on the clock.

[@hmmm6317]

Lol

[@alex4251]

30ft is human movement speed. I suggest engaging in melee

[@danfocke]

Tradition is important to some people. But hell, I still miss THAC0 so who am I to judge.

[@aralornwolf3140]

Do you miss the chart where those numbers are different based on what weapon you're using vs what type of armour you're trying to penetrate?

[@Grumium101]

@@aralornwolf3140 We still use that chart in 1E.

[@Grumium101]

@sum body I made a specialized character sheet that has it added in, so it works great. It gives weapons a lot of flavor. I really enjoy it.

[@BattleMatt]

I loved THAC0.

[@Person01234]

My experience really is that death is as common or as rare as the DM wants it to be. I think if you want to increase your monster/npc player kill rate the most critical thing is not to shy away from delivering the killing blow to your PC just because there are other standing targets. Now I think most DMs reasonably rationalise that a monster will tend to lose interest if an attacker stops moving and there are others still attacking it, and an intelligent creature may prioritise putting down those still dealing damage to it to finishing off the unconscious creature, but ultimately the reason for doing this is because players don't like dying and the DM wants their players to have fun. But the clear result of this is that either you take down the whole party and TPK, or you're relying on unlucky rolls, which as you point out give a fair amount of time and leeway, to kill a player. If you want to up your kill rate, most monsters are going to be able to outright kill a downed character in 1 turn, and you shouldn't shy away from doing that. The theoretically optimal strategy is not always the narratively best, or even indeed the optimal one. If your bad guy takes a turn of damage in order to outright kill a player, that's going to send a message to the rest of the players, it's going to scare them and it's going to stop that character from coming back into the fight, permenantly. Even better he can have his minions do it and that makes those minions seem like more of a threat than they legitimately are. Think what happened to mollymauk. Matt may not have done that deliberately, he declared the double attack before molly did his thing that put him down, but the result is the same. 1 turn, 1 dead PC. I've never been a DM yet so take what I say with a pinch of salt, it's just something I've noted with how DMs tend to behave, they prioritise standing players because they aren't looking to kill their PCs. When the DM simply makes the baddies vindictive enough to just straight up murder you on the floor, as I hav witnessed once or twice in games, they often get their kills. No matter how much hp a character has, no matter how powerful their attacks, no matter how godlike they are, when they're lying helpless on the floor all it takes is 2 pokes from a goblin and they're dead.

[@JJSeattle]

I have it so that ever single encounter is at the decision of the players - no one wants to fight to the death - the players, NPC's or monsters, per se, so I leave them an out - a decision to be made, and if they decide, it was their decision to die. A, not the DM's fault. --Shit-- Dice Happens.

[@zionich]

This is why John Wick head shots even downed opponents!

[@robinmohamedally7587]

or, just play another edition.

[@mindlasher]

The kitchen sink is a mimic...

[@BrianKoppers]

For point 2 if you want a deadlier play the monster that way. When a PC is knocked unconscious have the monster continue to attack. RAW when an unconscious character is attacked it's an auto crit and they fail 2 death saves. Like Matt Colville says "the Earth Elemental Steps on your head to make sure your dead."

[@luisgusta]

That. I came to the comments to say that. I not always do that, but when it makes sense, I make the baddies attack fallen characters. I also use the CR ressurrection rules.

[@BrutusMaximusAurelius]

Exactly. I have no issue making death more meaningful if I want to.

[@adamholcomb1906]

I agree if you want a deadly encounter drop a PC and continue attacking downed characters and they will die...play this for monsters and say that the creature was predation💯

[@micahiwaasa9304]

Sounds super duper unfun =/ We could carry this to dicky DM levels and have every encounter include a handful of wee monsters whose only mission is to dart in and finish off downed PCs (while barely adding any XP). How about a housecat that runs out from cover to rip out the throat of the fallen bard? An animated object that dances out to smack/fork/smother the comatose barbarian?

[@rafaelgerber7374]

@@micahiwaasa9304 but if a DM wants to kill the party, he can easily do that anyways. This just gives an option to make the game a bit more dangerous when needed to create tension, or to make the players feel their charakters mortality.

[@Lukio79]

2: I do agree and I have a homebrew rule that you gain one point of exhaustion when you fall unconscious (from getting to 0 hit points). That way if the player is super uncareful he will be punished the rest of the day(s) depending on how many times he went down and after the third one the death saves start being with disadvantage.

[@aubreezarges]

I feel like as long as the players and DM communicate and are on the same page, lots of these annoyances can be avoided

[@jasongust7477]

I was going to write a long comment, but you summed it up perfectly. Communication.

[@sadnessinside123]

Agreed. 5e offers the tools to play the game with a rainbow of amazing colours. I like this edition.

[@irisdogma8174]

Or just play a system without those issues.

[@AFnord]

I do agree that communication is key, and every system, no matter what, requires the group to talk a bit before playing, but I'm also a firm believer in trying to find a system that matches the kind of game you want to play and that you enjoy running. The less work you need to put into a system to make it work the way you want it to work, the better.

[@3Y3ECE]

Thank you for this video! I must say, was not prepared for this level of honesty! I came into d&d when ad&d was on its tail end. Then 3rd edition came out, and not terribly long after, 3.5 and its many variants. When 3.0 came out, i really fell in love. So many options, variations, supplemental rules and ideas, campaign settings and alternative ideas... then 3.5 came out and just further streamlined it, while still being compatible with 3.0. So thats where i sit, and thats where i'll stay. Ive amassed a large collection of 3.0 and 3.5 books, and have continued to do so. Ive only recently completed ny quintessential set by mongoose, some 2 dozen booklets on specific races and classes, which really offer an in depth diversity to all the races and classes they address. I like the hardcore aura these versions have. Yeah, you may die. In fact, its a very real possibility. However, surviving and getting better has won the hearts of my players, and really sealed them into this game. Rewards have more impact when you almost lost it all on several occasions. What bothers me most about 5e besides the capitalist aspect is the racial acceptance. You wanna be a tiefling? Or a dragonborn? Not in my game bub!! I make new characters play a standard race/class combo or a few to understand the world and roles of those in it. If they can reach the level of the monstrous race/class combo they want with one or so standard characters, i find they understand the nuances of the world, and how and why monsters have the reputation they do. Sorry, but no christian kingdom society is going to be okay with a devil race of thieves doing what they do in town. But earn those levels the regular way and I will happily let you try! So to me, 5th edition is more like the liberal hippie approach to d&d whereas 3.0 and 3.5 are more like the cruel middle ages christian themed fantasy RPG i prefer. Im not christian or liberal or anything along those lines, but working within an imposing environment like that really brings a lot of challenges and territories where some things just dont fly. Thanks again for this video, it meant a lot to this ol' DM!!

[@swaghauler8334]

You can go "old school" with the Hitpoints and follow the older D&D/AD&D nearly universal houserule method. Give the players 1 FULL Hit Die (ie 6 points for a Wizard, 10 points for a Fighter) for level 0 and then have them roll 1 HD for 1st Level. Add in the CON bonus JUST THIS ONCE and total the results. There is your 1st Level HP total! The character then adds a new rolled Hit Die at each new level until 10th Level. After 10th Level, they just add; +1 for Casters +2 for Clerics, Thieves, Bards +3 for Fighters and Monks +4 for Barbarians This will greatly reduce the number of HP at higher levels and the risk will be higher as a result.

[@irisdogma8174]

True. Although HPs are bloody weird. A wizard who is 6 foot 5, and has an 18 con, should not have less ability to be struck than a 4 foot halfling barbarian. HP's don't even really represent anything. There's some fuzzy line between the weirdness of AC and HPs, and it's very weird/artificial. It's not cinematic, or narrative, or gritty, or heroic it's just odd. In real life a stab with a dagger kills a 7 foot tall brickhouse as well as it does a frail midget. And in movies, it's just who's important to the plot can get ten gunshot wounds before death (or magically avoid getting shot at all).

[@justininexile3445]

Pathfinder 2 has a good fix for whack-a-mole situations, the Death Levels and Wounded Levels. Those can be easily added to 5e. Basically, the first time you are downed to 0HP it is the same as 5e, but each sequential K.O. increases your chance of instadeath. The Wounded LVL can be removed with Healing Kit uses and resting.

[@perplexingpantheon]

@N L How so? I'm fairly unfamiliar with 2e

[@justininexile3445]

@N L Not sure how Spellcasting is related to Death/Wounded LVLs though :D :D :D

[@Grumium101]

I play BX and 1st edition. 5th edition is just boring for me. I think SUCCESSFUL ADVENTURES on page 107 in the 1st edition PHB should be required reading for everyone that plays the game. 6 things I do not like about 5E. In no particular order. 1. Death Saves. I like at 0 your character is toast, unless there is money to pay for a res. 2. To many races. I like Gary's take on things where it should be more human focused. If you want to play a different race then there is going to be draw backs to playing them (level limits) 3. Long and short rests. I thought healing is what clerics were for. 4. Backgrounds Here is one. You are a nobody, and make your own story by playing the game. 5. Feats I thought that was what having a class was for. 6. Balanced encounters. That is what legs were made for. Running to fight another day has saved many character lives. Not heroic, but that is the type of game I like. Sometimes you can outrun things and sometimes you can't. When you can't then its time to make a new character. "Run first and ask questions later." 1st edition PHB page 109 It's funny how much the game has changed over time. It has gone from a very deadly game to one where the characters almost never die because it is all about the story.

[@old_geeky_Michael]

As a grumpy old 1st edition AD&D player, I love this comment :-) Agree with everything here

[@sebastian-dp9vq]

The game needed to be more noob friendly specially now with the streaming era in the end they needed new players cause 4e sells were very low they needed the cash after they are own by hasbro after all

[@Grumium101]

@@sebastian-dp9vq If 5th is good for you then that's all that matters. As long as your getting enjoyment out of the game and having fun while doing it then its a win.

[@sebastian-dp9vq]

@@Grumium101 i know im just saying why wizards change it i mean you gotta admit 5e is the most noob friendly

[@Grumium101]

@@sebastian-dp9vq I know they have to make money, but if your going for noob friendly I would say B/X or BECMI is a lot easier by far.

[@wraitheory]

D.M.: Feats are an optional rule so I'm not allowing anyone to use them. Me : - RAGE FACE -

[@AntTheBugcather]

Without feats and/or MC makes characters feel samy imho

[@mitchelltyner5670]

@@AntTheBugcather true, but if you use feats it completely skews the CR of monsters in the MM since they are calculated without any of the optional rules in mind.

[@tiggs7255]

Me: gives the players a free feat in character creation

[@GrugTheJust]

@@mitchelltyner5670 disagree given the trade off of ability increase to offset the versatility of the feat.

[@mitchelltyner5670]

@@GrugTheJust there is nothing to disagree on. This was stated by Jeremy Crawford so it can not be argued with since they were the ones who designed it this way. 2 things that were not used in the creation of the CR for a creature was feats, and was pointed out that (great weapon master and such feats makes the CR of monsters go down) and also another was magical weapons since a big factor of higher CR creatures is their resistance to non magical damage. If you bypass the resistance and inflate the damage per round of the characters it significantly drops the CR of the creatures. Again, the creator of the edition stated that CR was factored WITHOUT any of the optional material.

[@dilsoncamacho4100]

When I want to roll a more specific setting, I just talk with my players... Like this : "I'm always the frigging DM and I want to DM a specific game, so EVERYONE WILL PLAY A GOBLING BECAUSE I WANT TO, if you don't want, how about you DM this time, huh!?"

[@Orapac4142]

@sum body look up the adventure "We be goblins"

[@WolforNuva]

Parties where everyone plays a certain class, race or both are actually really fun, and lends a great sense of unity to the group. I run a game of all Halfling Barbarians and it's great seeing all the different ways the players tried making diverse characters within those narrow restrictions.

[@314R81UP]

The party i fear is the bard changeling party. Every check has advantage from help actions, healing word, and the choice of spell picks across all of magic. A dozen plus inspiration die per day at level one, then per short rest around 5.

[@KennethSee]

@@WolforNuva Yeah, I love games like that. I’m running a game where everyone is playing nobles. It’s awesome seeing them try and live as adventurers away from the comforts of nobility. Really fun.

[@WolforNuva]

@@KennethSee Ah man that sounds really fun!

[@DungeonDad]

5E is unreal, the speed at which I can prep a session has gone waaay up. I have always had a gripe with the way D&D handles death. It is so hard to die in 5E, not that it should happen all the time, but there do need to be consequences. I have tried so many different things to remedy this and I find a lot of them work pretty well depending on the party. In my setting I've made diamonds very hard to come by, making the components for a resurrection a true treasure, and when the party finds one it's always a HUGE deal. My players don't reset their death saves when they go down. If you go down, fail once and then get brought back up, if you go down again on the same day you still have that 1 death saving throw failure. Also: I have never used the XP budget system. I think it's a great tool for new DMs however.

[@GaretheDen]

Dungeon Dad I like your way on handling death and resurrection mechanics. I think I’m gonna pull this into my game.

[@JoshMacLeod]

This, re: diamonds. I have the nobility in an area and the churches corner the entire market in diamonds. This is, after all, an immensely useful resource. You can't let just ANYONE have access to it.

[@danieldurham5891]

great minds travel the same path. I do the same thing in my worlds. Diamonds are either very rare or are extremely controlled "substances" by the PTBs (powers that be) if not both

[@silentdrew7636]

Just one problem: if diamonds are rare then they are also expensive, and resurrection spells require a certain cost of diamonds, meaning that resurrection becomes easier the rarer they are

[@danieldurham5891]

@@silentdrew7636 Don't bring real world economics in D&D, That WILL break any game,

[@OneTrueNobody]

The "Kitchen Sink" aspect really is more an element of the Forgotten Realms setting than anything else. It became so popular with D&D fans over time that it sort of became D&D's default setting. Used to be we'd be get stuff set in Greyhawk, like the Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara arcade games, or the Temple of Elemental Evil videogame adaptation, but pretty much all fifth edition sourcebooks and adventure modules that aren't specifically about another setting, are themed around the Forgotten Realms. And the Forgotten Realms are big and geographically diverse, and literally have room for everything: that's why Neverwinter Nights 2 was able to go from a really comfortable-feeling stock fantasy story in the Neverwinter region, to a more aesthetically unique adventure in the Mask of the Betrayer expansion campaign. It's also why the designers of the "Wyvern Crown of Cormyr" module for Neverwinter Nights 1 were able to focus so hard on medieval tone and JOUSTING, which might have been part of the appeal in their previous focus on Dragonlance fan-creations. It's easy to see WHY the Forgotten Realms became the default. That everything-and-the-kitchen-sink approach to the setting makes it an easy resource for people to draw from for ALMOST any kind of story. Maybe they should have included notes in the Player's Handbook about working with the DM to figure out the limits of the game they're running. Maybe they should have categorized the non-traditional races like tieflings and dragonborn as being "exotic" and mentioned that not every campaign setting or DM homebrew would include them or treat them the same way. They made a point to mention working with your DM to see if you would be allowed to play as a drow elf, after all. But the other reason for this is that a lot of popular novels and games already feature the Forgotten Realms setting, and that makes it easy for newcomers to get accustomed with the world and the lore to some extent before they sit down to play the tabletop game. If you've played even partway into Baldur's Gate, you know a fair bit about the Sword Coast region. If you've read The Sellswords, you know a bit about the Bloodstone Lands. There are multiple novels and games, including a casual free-to-play MMO, set in the Neverwinter area. There are a million billion entry points, that you can experience solo WHILE TRYING TO DECIDE if D&D interests you, or before you even consider the tabletop game as an option. The other settings don't have that kind of easy-in quality, and 5e, being a game designed not to intimidate newcomers overmuch, obviously wants to bank on that.

[@dimitriid]

You know unlike many other channels, you are always talking more generally about RPGs and that's good. However main issue I have with D&D 5E is one other youtubers are also guilty of: always go for the lowest common denominator in a very lazy way. Some channels have been talking in circles about the same stuff for 5E for 3, 4, 5 years at this point and people keep hyping ridiculous projects like "5E classes for a cyberpunk setting!" Instead of investing time to buy one of the many wonderful settings build from the ground up to better represent those concepts. We're quickly moving back into the D20 era of the early 2000s of endless, awful supplements forcefully shoved into a D20 system even if they fit poorly and I am not sure the OGL is to blame but it is far more on all of us every time we hear people say "I *only want to play 5E* and buy those products" and capitulate instead of putting your foot down and saying "No, try something else, it won't physically hurt you top STOP GIVING MONEY to WotC"

[@NefariousKoel]

Agreed. Don't be afraid to leave your comfort zone, folks. You may enjoy it after getting past the mental block.

[@swaghauler8334]

I'll take this one step farther and recommend two systems to try; Mythras (The Design Mechanism). A Classless, skill-based, system that uses Percentile dice for a resolution system. It is based on a BRP model (Runequest, C-o-C) but modernized. Conan 2D20 (Modiphous Games). A success-based system (you roll multiple dice and each one can generate a success) that is basically "classless" but uses Archetypes to guide new players.

[@NefariousKoel]

@@swaghauler8334 Good suggestions! There are quite a few quality RPGs out nowadays, covering a wide range of themes and styles. People should explore!

[@irisdogma8174]

Sadly, that's where we are. Nu-gamers in gen-z and millenials visibly are starting to outgrow 5e, but don't know where to look but other settings with the same rules (one exception seems to be shadowrun). But it's time people started to rip that bandage off and learn new systems. It's sad to me that carbon 2185 is the highest selling product on drivethru. It's okay I guess, but it's got major flaws, and is even simpler than D&D. There's so much better stuff out there. You want sci-fi - try coriolis for eg (or actually anything from free league publishing). It's got a way richer setting, better rules, more flavour and it's more deeply supported. Most modern systems are as easy, or often easier than 5e to play once you learn them. It's usually some other d20 mechanic, or d6 v skill, or dicepool v skill or whatever + skill v difficulty - and a single mechanic for everything. No different than 5e, and often less checks. Transition really is just a bit of reading (often just a quick start) and that's it. Actually I think gaming (in the last few years), outside of the old names, has moved further along in streamlining than D&D has, whilst retaining complexity. Long gone is the days of success math, or multiple resolution systems. D&D is behind in that if anything. RPGs are moving fast now, there is so much new, cool stuff out there.

[@hatox4491]

As someone whos first impression of DnD was with 5th edition my opinion on your points: 1. Yeah its kinda stupid, but it doesnt really doesnt bother me and is understandable enough. 2. Im with you on this one, I feel like most of the battles were a character comes close to death, its nearly always also really close to a TPK. The only times a single character was close to dying were moments where he couldnt be stabilised, for example a character was stuck in a water elemental -> he was drowning -> he cant regain hitpoints, so they needed to kill the elemental before he fails 3 death saves. Because of that im using lingering injuries with a chance everytime someone drops to 0 so my players are more scared of it (my wizard recently lost a hand and is now desperatly looking for a high lvl cleric to restore it). 3. While it is weird, I think making it harder to recover HP in rests might just make healing magic much more needed. What i surely will try out is the gritty realism rule, because it also reduces the spell slots so I can span encounters over multiple days without it being to easy and my playersalways having all resources. 4. I know its unrealistic, but I´ve played a lot of game systems where your character gets weaker with lower hitpoints, my problem with this is it a. slows the game down because players always need to look up "how many hitpoints do i have left? how much harder does that make rolls for me?" and b. It makes comebacks harder. Making characters weaker if they loose hitpoints makes deathspirals more frequent and often it comes down to "who hurts the other side more quickly", and in my opinion nothing is cooler than my players making a comeback while on low health ( I know this is still possible with rules that weaken you if you have less hitpoints, but its just much more likely that you just die) 5. As someone who had no experience with DnD before 5th, I LOVE the xp budgets. While calculating it is stupid if you dont have an app or a website that does it for you (thanks kobold.club) It helped me balance encounters when I had no Idea how the game works (We didnt play a prewritten adventure). I know its not perfect but its super usefull for beginners. 6. I just love that theres a lot of fantasy in DnD, maybe its because a lot of other games I played were rather low-fantasy. But after fighting Bandits, Cultists, Guards and who knows what kind of "human-enemy nr. 24" I just love that I can put a lot of mystical creatures even against low lvl parties and keep them amazed by the giant mix of different fantasy styles. I totally understand your points, just wanted to tell you guys what I thought about them :)

[@mgb360]

Gotta agree with you on #5. I don't touch it at all anymore, but it was really useful when I was first starting out to help me understand how encounters are balanced and how to estimate the difficulty of a bunch of small enemies instead of one big one.

[@rotwang2000]

1) Semantics/shmemantics. Early gaming was full of weirdness. Tons of weird stuff survives to this day. 2) I prefer the 0-HP = seriously battered down and barely standing on your legs. Your HP are simply an indicator of how long you can give your full ability before exhaustion and injury set in. This has the advantage that players don't end up looking like walking scar tissue after 50 fights where every blow cuts and smashes up their bodies. 3) Rests are often tied to a situation. If you are in the middle of hostile territory and threats loom everywhere, good luck getting even a short rest. Generally in my games rests are pretty hard to do unless the party retreats to a safe area, which means they lose progress and/or momentum. 4) Been looking at combat systems for nearly four decades and they do tend to fall into fast/slow playing and deadly vs managed survival. Fast/slow play depends on all the factors. If you have a system with attacks/parries, armour bypass, damage reduction, critical hits and injuries you add a ton of dice to slow the flow of the game. Deadly combat means that a stray bullet or a single hit from a sword will kill you stone cold dead no matter how awesome your character is, while managed survival means you can survive any engagement barring outright stupidity and abysmal dice rolls. 5) I mostly wing it. Never had a complaint. At best I look at the monster stats and the player's XP table and get a ballpark figure to fits in the way I feel they should advance. 6) I play D&D because it is uniquely D&D. I don't like to play GoT or Lord of the Rings D&D and prefer bespoke game systems tailored to fit a world rather than try to get the world to fit the D&D memes and tropes to a particular world. Even adaptations like Lord of the Rings for 5e have tons of changes and is kinda interesting if your players are only ever used to D&D, but in an ideal world I'd rather use a different game system. I always compared OGL with a system in which every car, from a cheap runabout to a Rolls Royce or a Bugatti hypercar are all built on the same Ford T chassis, you can tweak it to death, a Ferrari on a proper chassis is always going to beat one on a jury rigged Ford T chassis.

[@rebbob93]

I play pathfinder and you are right that #3 makes healing a must. Since Pathfinder healing is 1hp per 8hour rest and 2 per full day of rest (doubled if a heal check is preformed). So without a dedicated healer then any fight where an enemy gets a lucky crit then you are abandoning any urgent business.

[@charleslanphier1104]

I like your comments. They mostly mirror my own. I have just a few suggestions: 2 - My group has had a lot of discussions on this lately. My players do NOT feel like it isn't dangerous enough. Part of that is play style. For instance, my undead don't see with eyes. They sense life essences. So you've been knocked out, they don't notice until you are dead. Hmmm. Smarter monsters know it. One change we are talking about is to keep track of negative HPs. 2xCon in neg HP = death. This eliminates the 1 HP pops you back up. 3 - Some monsters realize the implications of letting the party rest. They get to rest too. That's time to get help as well. Thanks!

[@Endershock1678]

For #3, you can just have your monsters attack the downed players. Animals and beast IRL won't stop attacking just because you get knocked down, so just have the Monster unload all their attacks onto the downed player. If they already failed one save, the just straight up die.

[@mesoforte]

If you want to have getting knocked down be meaningful: Change your tactics. Prone down means auto fail 2 death saves on melee attacks. In this world, if you brought someone down, you would stomp on their head to make sure they don't get back up again. If you can't take down characters when they play badly it is your dming style. Use terrain, traps and creative tactics to your advantage. Even goblins can tpk a party when played right in 5e. All making things more deadlier in 5e does is make someone have to be a cleric healbot instead of being able to have fun.

[@phoenixjones2569]

I mean, the party could also play safe and smart... especially since a cleric healbot is rarely needed, and hell some classes do the healing job better than all but the highest level of life clerics *looks at divine sorcerer shepherd Druid and celestial warlock*. Hell, avoiding and mitigating damage tends to do a LOT more for a party than healing, like area control spells that slow down and stop enemies, areas of damage that enemies need to avoid unless they wanna die, and good tactics that the party plans out beforehand. Sure prayer of healing from a life cleric is gonna be nice and heal some of the damage the fighter and wizard took, if they get a chance to rest that is, but isn’t it not only cooler but also more efficient to have the party trick the enemies into a spike growth patch of ground that quickly turns into a field of dead enemies?

[@irisdogma8174]

It shortens the length of combat is something having deadlier mechanics in an rpg does - rules go both ways. It makes PC's avoid combat, run away sometimes, take it seriously. In a deadly mechanic - players are all alert, paying attention, feeling the tensio, every single combat - the combat is short, punchy, a few, to a half dozen turns, it's over. He's not saying make 5e more deadly, he's saying the system is borked for risk. Yes you can GM something deadly, but that's not the issue - the issue is ALL combat should be ACTUALLY a bit risky, rather than having tonnes of meaningless encounters and then throwing in a curve ball to keep players on their toes - that's mechanical, it's not a GM thing. That just illustrates the flawed thinking around modern D&D - the idea that the GM has to constantly constrain and moderate combat risk, scaling it up and down, to create a perfectly balanced sense of tension versus not actually dying. That's not a world, that's a linear arpg with the GM's hand on the difficulty slider. Think about for example, divinity original sin as a computer game - it doesn't railroad the combat - you fight something too powerful, you die, you want to avoid dying, you stick to easier targets and carefully manage your tactics. If things get dicey, you run. Fast. The game doesn't scale anything - the players choice does. I played a short run of the ultra deadly game harnmaster once. There was one combat, it was unavoidable, and everyone sighed relief when it was over. The rest of the game, was spent avoiding combat and problem solving/social. Was actually a lot of fun. Serious stakes. Now, that's too deadly for a regular game for me, but it was considerably more enjoyable than the perfectly pre-mixed 90% fodder fights 10% hard/risky fights of usual gaming sessions in D&D or pathfinder. Everything felt important. Three guards was like, IDK guys, let's see if we can sneak past them, scale the wall etc.

[@2000TalesRolePlaying]

There’s luckily a ton of answers to a lot of these problems already in the game. First as you mentioned the healing the rest variants. The Gritty Realism Rest variant already curves much more than just hit point Recovery. Remember this also affects spell and ability recovery. If you haven’t used this rule yet you’ll be surprised by how much it does change EVERYTHING. As noted by other comments death is easy in 5e if you don’t pull your punches but ACCIDENTAL death is hard to have happen. If foes aren’t finishing off dying characters there’s usually a reason (either they need to deal with the immediate threat of another character or they don’t want them dead). Multi-Attack is a killer if the first blow knocks a character to 0 and many beasts get an extra attack as a bonus action if the target is prone (which 0 hp characters are). Just remember even one hit on a downed target makes the death save a single save or dye and two attacks kill them outright. Hit Points are just a problem with D&D and one of the mechanics WotC has figured out that if they remove it’s no longer “D&D” to too many people. There’s an easy answer with bringing back Bloodied from 4e. Not official but I’m going to be putting a video out soon that discusses this too. The XP budget system IS a joke and WotC knows it. This is why they have a MUCH better system in Xanathars guide, but like you said it’s also something that can just be ignored. Finally the kitchen sink issue. This is mostly a community problem not an actual system problem. It’s not AS focused as it could be but WotC official stance on 5e is PHB plus one for all their organized play and any campaign that has a players guide or players options assumes THAT is the “plus one” for that campaign. WotC also doesn’t like telling people how to have their fun but this limiting factor shows the limits within their own campaigns and the books openly tell DMs and the PLAYERS that it’s up to the DM what races are allowed. The problem comes from a community that refuses to listen or accept this just like multi classing being optional and not core. People assume if it was core in the Edition they came from or if it’s common at their table it’s core.

[@logickedmazimoon6001]

All of these reasons are great and all the more reason why EVERYONE should have a session 0.

[@downsjmmyjones101]

I had never heard or seen a session 0 despite being a part of several campaigns. I think I only just found out about them a year ago.

[@kyleabrams5036]

See here's the thing. Are session zeros for character creation and rules discussion or starting role play? Our dm seems to think we're ready to rp without characters. It's a little tricky to adlib while working out a character mechanically.

[@VincentsVideoVisions]

Session 0 is a must always

[@AFnord]

Completely agree. I used to play without a session 0 back in the days, but ever since we started to have one, even for games that were only meant to last for 1-3 actual play sessions, things have run so much more smoothly and generally been more fun.

[@leviwarren6222]

If by "session 0" you mean 3.5!!

[@rafaelcastor2089]

Something i really dislike about 5e is how there is close to no customization, all characters are basically the same. Sure there are feats, but they are an optional rule and 90% of them suck so you don't get that many options to choose from even when available.

[@theatheistbear3117]

This is the reason why I’m planning to switch to Pathfinder 2e after the GMG is out. I want my players to have more options, as many of them love that. One player likes to make crazy hybrid builds, so it’ll make him incredibly happy.

[@rafaelcastor2089]

@@theatheistbear3117 I feel you man, i'm doing the exact same thing.

[@rafaelcastor2089]

@@TA-by9wv I reckon you probably haven't play that many system's outside of 5e. But if you did, please let me know

[@theatheistbear3117]

Eddie Donovan You are aware that there is a Conan Tabletop Roleplaying game, right?

[@theatheistbear3117]

Rafael Castor I’m happy to hear that! Pathfinder 2e is really cool. I hope that more people will give it a go. D&D 5e has a lot of things I’m not all too happy about and Pathfinder 2e seems to have gotten rid of those. It’s got me really excited.

[@beckett746]

I think I have a good idea. Long rests should not be 7 days, as it sucks to have to wait a week to regain your spell slots. However, If you drop to one third your hp or less in a battle, your hp max decreases by your level+your prof. bonus+ however much damage you were below 1/3 hp for 1 week. I think this will solve a lot of problems.

[@data_viking]

+1 for "It just don't seem right.".

[@dylanblack3635]

Two of my favorite games: Savage Worlds and 7th Sea. Both have a dramatic feel and taking damage has a real effect on the game. Also, they handle the "kitchen sink" mentality really well. Especially Savage Worlds. "Oh, you found this really neat Edge? Too bad it is in another setting. We're using this setting where that doesn't exist." Other really good contenders for good dramatic systems are the Storyteller system from White Wolf/ Onyx Path and the Palladium System for those of you who want a lot of crunch. Of course, if you really want to play Math the game, crack open a copy of Hero System which can be a lot of fun if you are in the right mood.

[@bradleymorgan8223]

When i've run 5e, i've had one character die in almost every session. with that being said, i'm still learning about encounter balance XD

[@bonzwah1]

dnd 5e at level 1 is very deadly. if you're new to 5e those low levels can be tough to manage haha. an unlucky roll can often lead to a character death actually haha, especially if you aren't willing to baby them early. once you get deeper in levels an encounter having unlucky rolls or being tougher than you imagined usually just means that the party ends up spending more resources in a particular fight than you were expecting. but at level 1 and 2, it means they die haha. I usually start adventures at level 3 unless my players want that experience of being level 1 nobodies who could lose a fight to a serving girl at a tavern.

[@bradleymorgan8223]

@sum body the first encounter i actually built myself, it was a lot of low-level undead in a crypt with a vampire spawn boss. The balance felt about right, the party could've done it easily if the one guy didn't abandon the rest of the party to go after promises of treasure, pulling the rest of the monsters in the process. Difficulty was spot on, but a bit long-winded

[@Tiyev]

Eventually, you're going to have to start paying attention to the spells the spellcasters have. That's the main thing that can change the difficulty of most encounters with certain spells. Area of effect spells, chief among them Fireball, can take a group of enemies that by their numbers are an appropriate, or even lethal, challenge, and wipe out some or even all of them. (It kind of undermines the designer's goal of making lower level creatures be usable at higher levels in larger numbers). Other spells, like Banishment or Polymorph can take an entire big creature out of the fight, significantly dropping the enemies power and thus challenge. (Or at a higher spell slot, Banishment can banish extra creatures, making it even trickier to plan around, as you might want to them to fight a creature that is challenging enough with just one of them, but need to put 3 in because the wizard will, probably, use a 5th level spell slot and banish 2 of them ... but if the wizard decides to save his 5th level spell slot, and just Banish one of them, suddenly the fight is double what was going to be a decent challenge, and thus probably lethal. Honestly, with this comment I wanted to focus on advice for running the game and only address some of the issues with spells in DnD. But well, let's just say most spells in DnD tend to create problems for other elements of the game, such as the Challenge Rating system. DnD in all of it's editions, except maybe 4e, have never had a working CR system for encounter building, because of it's spells. Many of the spells, like Fireball, Banishment, or Polymorph, sometimes Hypnotic Pattern, swing the combat encounters too drastically. A working CR system would literally have to ask about the dozens of encounter changing spells in the game, as well as how high they can cast them, and how many of the spellcasters can cast them. And because these spells have a huge impact on the game, characters that have them, and thus the players that have them, get a disproportionate amount of control over the outcome of the game that non spellcasters, or even spellcasters without these spells. A 5th level wizard or sorceror, with Fireball, has an amount of damage output and ability to deal with a group of enemies that aren't even close to the other characters, whether their a 20th level fighter (Since fireball does 8d6 damage to everything it hits, if you hit 5, 10, or 20 enemies with it, you do 8d6 *5, 10, or 20, it's almost like doing 40, 80, or even 160d6 damage, in one round.) ...it also is way more powerful than say, a 5th level character with only 4 levels in wizard or sorceror. A 5th level wizard, rather than being %125 more powerful with their magic than a 4th level spellcaster, is kind of .. exponentially more powerful. Which makes multiclassing spellcasters less viable, or rather, it makes most players disincentivised from even considering multiclassing, since they usually have their minds set on reaching levels like level 5 to get Fireball as soon as possible. It makes not going straight to level 5 in spellcaster classes, and not taking these handful of kind of overpowered spells, feel like making a 'wrong' decision. To multiclass because of your character concept, or how they feel about what they want to learn, the things your characters are exploring as their story unfolds, can lead you to take options, like multiclassing, that effective nerf, or gimp your character when compared to a pure spellcaster build. Not that multiclassing should be as good as pure classes as far as how potent their spells are, I just think spellcasting power should be more linear, so multiclassing would have a less severe cost in power in exchange for that versality and getting the game options that more accurately reflect how we envision our characters and how they are turning out in the story. (Which is the main reason why many, like I, often multiclass, so our characters game features can more accurately reflect who they are...) I shouldn't have to feel like had a chance to be Superman, and became Robin instead because I 'poorly' chose to follow my character and not play a pure spellcaster.

[@timkramar9729]

Remind them that they can always run away. And let them. As DM, I don't take opportunity attacks, and I don't continue attacking downed characters.

[@bradleymorgan8223]

@@timkramar9729 i try not to pull punches, but i will make sure to tell them what kind of experience i'm trying to create beforehand.

[@Joshuazx]

New Death Save rules: You get 1 roll on the start of your next turn. Let's hope someone can give you some first aid before then so you can make your save with advantage.

[@EvilArtifact]

If I'm bothered by any aspect of 5E is that there are so many player choices that it can be easy to get analysis paralysis. Regarding death, I think it is so dependent upon the experience level of the players at the table. When I DM I often get frustrated that the PCs nearly die in filler fights that are mainly there to drain a few resources and keep the dice rolling. For groups with experienced players, I think making truly deadly encounters is a skill that a DM has to learn. Armor class doesn't bother me, but hit points are a bit of a philosophical trap. I justify hit point regain in this way: hit points are not "health", but a measurement of a PCs ability to cope with physical and mental trauma. If you get sliced by a sword for 10 HP "damage", which gets recovered after a short rest, the cut might still be there, but it has been cleaned and bound, so it doesn't affect your ability to perform in combat. In essence, the physical trauma has been mitigated. If you don't get a chance to heal, the cut is still open and exposed. It hurts and it is distracting. You haven't dealt with the physical trauma, therefore the next time you get into a fight, you are that much closer to an enemy finally landing a killing blow. For the record, sometimes I describe a "hit" as missing the PC, but the strenuous move that was required to get out of the way was painful or exhausting, which is a sort of trauma that puts the character that much closer to receiving the killing blow. I don't know if I recommend this philosophical workaround, but it gives me an opportunity to describe a lot of stuff.

[@SpookGod]

5e has nothing on Pathfinder for the amount of character choices being overwhelming. Its honestly kind of ridiculous. Couple that with the fact that Pathfinder is specifically geared towards power gaming, and it makes character creation a nightmare.

[@old_geeky_Michael]

Yeah, the analysis paralysis thing! So true. I have a friend who plays a cleric and it seriously takes him about 5 minutes to decide every combat round what his action will be. And then we move on to bonus actions...

[@EvilArtifact]

Camelslayer I’ve never played pathfinder, so I didn’t realize it was so overwhelming.

[@EvilArtifact]

Michael Phillips I’ve played a couple clerics recently and had that problem as well. There are so many things that clerics can do, and depending on the DM you’re playing 4-dimensional chess trying to figure out what to do against them. The answer is usually to cast shield of faith and just wade in! /s

[@GHOST-in-the-MACHINE]

For the deaths & unconsciousness, I use the Grievous Wounds system from Grim Hollow, that if you fall to 0, you roll on the Grievous Wounds table. Grievous Wounds are healed with a long rest (more on that), but every Grievous Wound you already have against you, you treat as a -1 to your roll. When you total below 2, you gain a Permanent Wound, which is a 1d6 table that has things like an ATM being cut off, losing an eye, or (if you roll a 1) outright dying. Permanent Wounds can only be "fixed" with a Regeneration spell. Sidenote that I also allow the use of prosthetics in my game, so if you can't use a Regeneration spell, you can see a local artificer about making you a prosthetic. Death saves are rolled by the player, but in secret, so only the player and I know the results. We do have a Paladin, a Ranger, and a Druid in my game, but I also allow them to use Healing Surge, since encounter CRs are consistently 2 about the APL (which is level 4, with six level 3 characters). Since I allow the use of Healing Surge, hit dice should be available less for rests, but even then, I only allow the use up to half during a quick rest. A Quick Rest is simply 30 minutes, and the only thing you get is the ability to catch your breath a bit (the use of half your hit dice). A Short Rest functions as advertised, but it's four to eight hours, and usually players will be camping when that happens. A Long Rest is the same, except extended to 24 hours, with the prerequisition that you *have* to be in a safe area to sleep and rest. A roadside camp does not count as such. A roadside tavern would, or a homestead, or a settlement. Ergo, players are required to seek out civilisation to get the benefits of a Long Rest. Fortunately, my group's Barbarian Warforged is a pathfinder who can find a settlement with a successful DC 15 Survival check, and I do populate my world with off-the-map little settlements with their own issues, thus opportunities for plot hooks and side quests.

[@amyloriley]

For solving the rest problem, you can look it the 13th Age RPG way: accept that it's a game mechanic to keep the game going. So rather than long rest at night, that game lets you take a full heal after 4 normal combat encounters, or 3 hard combat encounters. Healing fully doesn't take any time, maybe 5 minutes, not 8 hours, as hit points are an abstraction anyways. Resting after a set amount of battles helps twofold: your players don't rest at any given moment, they know they have to press forward to earn their heal. And secondly, it gives the players a chance to pace out when to use their spells and limited abilities. Knowing there will be two battles after this, they won't use every spell in a single battle and ask the GM for a long rest because they're out of spell slots.

[@cameronlloyd9752]

My house rule for the resting and HP recovery issue. I'm still working on refining this: Short rest: you can spend 1 hit die (or 1/2 proficiency bonus, round down) per hour of rest. Long rest: Is not just 8 hours, but requires a proper meal and full >6 hours of sleep. Gnawing on rations in a Leomund's Tiny hut is *not* restful. A night in an inn is. To rest in the wilds, you'd need to set up camp, light a fire, have someone cook a meal (probably requiring a proficiency), and then turn in for a full night of sleep. Standing watch or being woken up by an encounter interrupts this unless you're able to like, sit in a wagon and nap on the road. I find this also balances with spellcasters not needing a full week to recover spells.

[@Maxwell7724]

Correct. 5E just doesn't seem lethal. But that's easily remedied by the DM and some adjustments. Also. The editing is better. Good job! Hope you get more subscribers!

[@Dragonspassage]

Its usually because the DM doesn't follow the encounter building rules actually. 6 encounters a day makes a huge difference.

[@Brynhold]

I feel like its very lethal. Are DM's not letting npc's hit 0hp characters or something? A mele hit on a fallen guy is 2 failed death saves, so any damage from there is lethal, or a failed save. And don't tell me it is not a valid strategy for the enemy in a world where a simple heal rises them to full fighting condition over and over again. You want the enemy to stay dead.

[@micahiwaasa9304]

@@Brynhold It's no-man's-land. Not lethal enough or too lethal. (No player is exactly thrilled by having their downed PC executed.)

[@Brynhold]

@@micahiwaasa9304 True I guess. If a person is killed in my game (unless from getting one shot) there is a one minute "near death" state they are put into. This allows someone with a medkit to get 1 chance to preform a Medecin check to save the person. Normal healing dosen't work here, the damage is to sewere. The difficulty is against 15+1d6(rolled hidden by the DM from the players). This allows for a bit more targeting I think, from the enemy. I also roleplay different enemy tactics ofc, most dosen't target pc's like this, mostly experienced and clever foes would, or something like a ghoul.

[@xp_shared6660]

@@Dragonspassage absolutely true. I just started a new game with players who have never played a "by the book" campaign. Level 3 start, PHB+1, with a focus on dungeon crawling and combat. Even rolled on the random dungeon table in DMG to brew up something unique. Within my first session, I had 2 character deaths on my hands, and an almost completely expended party. Out of a party of 4.

[@fredxvi]

A great way to fix some of the death problems: (Making resting harder is a DM thing, my players hate how hard it can be to sleep or get a full nights sleep) Lingering injury everytime players drop to 0, roll 1d20 to determine it and the lingering injury requires a 6th level spell or higher to be healed. Ontop of this, make it so healing spells cannot set bones, and can only heal surface level wounds like flesh or muscle tissue. Healing spells cannot regenerate tissue, but act more like mending with re-sealing the flesh back together

[@dracone4370]

My favorite RPG system is the World of Darkness games, also known as the White Wolf system, mostly because character creation and advancement are more involved than D&D due to the absence of levels and classes, it makes it easier to tailor your character the way want. My biggest problem with Experience Points in D&D is the fact that they don't really do anything beyond act as a sort of meter until you get to the next level, D&D's system known as the Level Up system is also greatly employed by MMORPGs, and I just have problem with the Level Up system which boils down to the fact you have these numbers that just tell you how close you are to the next level but still requires a bit of math you likely don't want to do. I much prefer WoD's Point Buy system, and other games that employ it as well, because it turns Experience Points into a player resource for advancing their character the way they want, it also means levels really don't matter and challenges can be applied for the difficulty to the players in more real feeling ways. The game also has offshoots, of sorts, for different sorts of character archetypes, just not in the way most people expect. There the classic World of Darkness, Changeling the Lost, Hunter the Vigil, Mage the Awakening, Promethean the Created, Geist the Sin-Eaters, and a few others. Each has a nice little spin on how things work. I also like the WoD setting of an Urban Fantasy Noir type setting.

[@anthonynorman7545]

If you don't like tracking xp there's the milestone system that basically translates to leveling up for story reasons (whenever the DM feels like it). It can sometimes be super arbitrary but it simplifies things and allows for styles of play that aren't kill everything that moves.

[@dracone4370]

@@anthonynorman7545 Yes, and I make use of it in my D&D games. I was just pointing out my observations for the system when it uses Experience Points. And it's that I don't like tracking XP, even though it can be a headache at times, what I don't like XP in Level Up RPGs is the fact the points you earn aren't properly utilized as a resource

[@Pijetlo91]

2.) Death - if a character falls down, and the PCs are fighting a semi intelligent creature, that creature will finish the victim to prevent others from bringing it back to life. Also in my setting, raise dead and other resurrection magic which is from the necromancy school is banned across the realms because necromancy is outlawed. Another cool thing to add is that for every failed death save, you get a permanent scar which makes it more difficult to engage with NPCs. 3.) Healing - we have a sort of a hybrid system where a short rest is 4 hours long, and a long rest requiers a few days. This means that you will not have a cleric to bail you out every single time and will force you to prepare for a dangerous dungeon 4.) HP - can't really fix this problem without making it too complicated, and I think most people would hesitate to fight in the 1st place if they knew that they will be less and less potent and that would suck out the fun out of most martial classes who have to fight on the front line 5.) Exp - I just give out levels when I find it appropriate, like after a huge quest has been completed or after say 5-6 sessions 6.) Customization is the key. I have just banned out a whole lot of problematic races, spells, magic items etc. but have expanded on the things which are allowed giving them more depth. When in doubt, depth > complexity. It's better to have 2 races with a detailed interaction and history and a long history than 25 stereotypical ones.

[@Endershock1678]

I say the way to increase death is either go full pack tactics and if someone goes down, every monster in the area runs towards them to makes sure their dead, you can make it so that they can only stabilize with the help of somebody else using their turn to make a Medicine Check to give them a successful save, and/or you can make it so that to restore them to full health, they must heal the total damage you actually took to get back up, or you can make them have negative health and it stacks so you can't easily be healed.

[@markadkins1842]

In regards to HP, I've always had the mental image that the penalties from the damage they've taken "balance out" with the bonuses from the desperate rush of adrenaline they're experiencing. They're hurt, but their body is pulling out all of it's reserves to survive. I'm contemplating adding a house rule similar to the D&D 4e "Bloodied" condition. By itself, it does nothing but track the severity of your injuries. But there would be options in the game where characters might, for example, gain bonuses against bloodied characters as they exploit their more desperate efforts.

[@swaghauler8334]

Just apply DISADVANTAGE at the "Bloodied" threshold.

[@simonfernandes6809]

I've been running a 5e Ravenloft campaign for almost 2 years. 15 character deaths in that time which includes a TPK. 5e is plenty lethal.

[@Cody.Tafoya]

Simon is out here icing fools.

[@b-ruckus5671]

@@Cody.Tafoya congrats. You actually made me lol with this comment.

[@drewb1979]

Lol bro it's Ravenloft, of course it's gonna be darker and more lethal.

[@loka7783]

I haven't seen the 5e version of Ravenloft, are there special rules for healing in that setting? If so, then it is not the 5e system that is lethal, it is the setting.

[@maddogs1989]

@@loka7783 no the rules for ravenloft are the same as any 5e adventure. 5e is absolutely dangerous if players play their characters even if it potentially gets them killed. In my multiple groups I've played with since 3.5 it has always been what would your character do. Not I dont want my character to die so I'm not going to do what he/she would normally do.

[@bonzwah1]

my two cents about making characters less effective as they get hurt is that its nice to be represented slightly, but crippling a character for being near death is not fun for most players. in general, taking away agency from the player always sucks and shouldn't be done lightly. for my table, I roll on the lingering injuries table whenever a character falls below 50% hp and apply that to them as a condition that can only be removed by being healed back up above 50%. Of course I reflavor them so that they aren't so permanent, since I want them to be removable by spending hit dice during a short rest (I flavor hit dice spending as first aid and I handwave that they always have medical supplies in their adventuring pack unless its a campaign where we're counting every arrow haha). Its worth noting that I apply these rules to enemies as well, and it gives the players a way of knowing when an enemy has fallen below 50% hp.

[@shaneminer4526]

Going in line with your losing HP isn't necessarily injuries thing, a lot of the armors are really effective against many of the weapons in the game. For example, a dagger isn't going to be overly effective against any of the metal armors unless you hit a weak point, which a person proficient in that armor is going to have techniques and moves that allow them to protect those weak spots. (And before people talk about how easy the people on the History channel can get through things like chainmaille, they are using costume grade armors 99% of the time, especially with chainmaille) but if you look at even modern "armor," such as football pads/helmets, baseball helmets, and even body armor for law enforcement and the military, you still feel the impact of many blows. Football players still break ribs, collar bones, get concussions, etc despite their padding. A baseball player who gets hit in the helmet with a fastball still get their bell ring. And even the ballistic vests worn by law enforcement still get bruised tissue, broken bones, and other various blunt injuries even when the bullet is stopped by the armor. If you keep getting hit in the limbs and/or head over and over again, even if you aren't getting cut/stabbed is still going to bruise and at least slightly weaken the resolve of the fighter, which would result in fatigue, thus less effectiveness in battle. With that being said, if that's the kind of hit points you're losing 30 minutes to sit down, drink some water, and grab a snack would probably be a pretty effective way to bounce back and be ready to continue fighting. Great video! Keep up the good work!

[@amyloriley]

On the DM side, don't forget that monsters are able to kill unconscious targets. People often forget or dismiss that, referencing real-life battle tactics. You can play it to the monster's Intelligence and knowledge of battle tactics, as well as knowledge of clerical magic. If it is known that there is a healer in the party, and it is known that they can instantly Cure Wounds or Healing Word an unconscious target so that player can stand up and fight at full strength again, it's a good tactic to go for the healer first. Gameplay Reminder: When dealing damage to an unconscious player, instead they gain a failed death save. - Constructs, bugs, elementals and zombies just keep attacking unconscious players. You can narrate a zombie's attack as if it is trying to eat your brain. - Goblins start stealing the loot from the unconscious player, then make their escape. - A random bandit would probably ignore the fallen. The trained soldier? Probably not. - Hobgoblins might strike once more at a fallen target before moving on to the next. When they realize there is a cleric using their healing magic, they WILL start killing characters and THEN will focus down on the healer in an intelligent manner. Hint: You can use multi-attacks to drain away failed death saves, or split your attacks up between fallen and conscious players.

[@reaprcussion5703]

Actually, they call it Armor Class because that's the next best thing to defense class. They can't call it Defense Class because DC is needed elsewhere in the game, and it would be too confusing.

[@Zilegil]

Nah. It’s probably tradition

[@Zegger]

I played D&D once so far, and I was surprised my character didn't die. I played as a tabaxi wild magic sorcerer, the first attack the entire party took was a goblin hitting my tabaxi for 6 damage, and he had 5 max hp And finally at level 3, with 11 max hp, wild magic surge, three fireballs right into the cat. At the very least the DM was kind enough to let the paladin roll for religion, nat 20, and decided to let us survive with a lot of exhaustion At least for my DM every single battle is a hard choice, we won most battles, but some we outright ran away scared for our lives

[@RottenRogerDM]

I been playing since 80 so the tradition stuff does not bother me. I currently only run Adventure League. I start in Sep 2016 and have killed 57 characters in 187 sessions. It took some time to get use to how player friendly the game is. But to make it a little more deadly. If a monster reduces a PC to zero, roll a d20 under or at their INT score attack the pc again. Some of my villains don't bluff, surrender or I stab the downed pc works.

[@theodorehunter4765]

My issues with 5e: 1) The Adv./Dis. system. I get the simplicity of it, but it has 2 big issues. a) The benefit/penalty associated with Adv./Dis. varies greatly depending on your normal likelihood of success. If you need a 10/11, it is roughly equivalent to having a +/-5. If you need a 2 or a 20, it's like having a +/-1. Imagine a character trying to lift a heavy portcullis, but he needs a nat 20 to make the DC. Someone helps him, granting him advantage, but he STILL needs a nat 20, he just has 2 chances to do it. (In 3.5, the character would get a +2, if the ally could make a DC15 check to help.) What's sad is that the 8 STR halfling Wizard is just as much help as the 20 STR half orc barbarian in 5e. Another scenario, the expert swordsman has been blinded, and must now fight a commoner. The expert swordsman hits on a 2 normally. Disadvantage just means that he has to roll a 2 or better twice to hit the commoner. (In 3.5, the swordsman would have to roll a 2 or better, then make a DC11 flat check to see if they actually hit.) b) Since Adv./Dis/ doesn't stack, there is no incentive to work together to bring down the big monster. I think of the scene from Infinity War Part 1 where everyone is trying to pull the gauntlet off of Thanos, and thinking, "If this were 5e, they wouldn't even try to restrain him after Mantis starts messing with his mind, because he would already have Disadvantage." MAYBE you could rule that having Ironman help Spiderman pull on the Gauntlet gave Spiderman Advantage on the opposed STR roll, while Mantis' mind tricks gave Thanos Disadvantage, but literally everyone else wasn't helping AT ALL by 5e rules. The last issue I have with Adv./Dis. is that is makes homebrewing buff/debuff spells really hard. What can you do to someone besides grant them Adv./Dis. on some checks? Bless and Bane are cool in that they grant numerical changes, but the DMG really wants you to avoid doing that. 2) I feel like you shouldn't miss out on feats just because you want to multiclass, and I also think that you shouldn't have to choose between feats and stats. I have seen a lot of cool character concepts flounder because they need too many feats to realize their concept and then they don't have the stats to actually succeed at what they wanted their build to do. (I'm thinking of doing a homebrew rewrite where everyone gets ASI's based on CHARACTER LEVEL, and making some extra class abilities to go on ASI levels. ) 3) Bounded accuracy causes some weird stuff to happen. Stuff happened in a module and my group of 3 level 4s went up against a level 20 NPC... and won. The paladin died, but the other two managed to take the NPC down shortly afterward. (Paladin, sorcerer, wizard vs level 20 champion fighter.) I feel like they should have lost. Earlier, in the same module, there was an encounter with a level 16 character that was supposed to run away at half health (yes, the module expected a level 3 party to be able to take a level 16 to half health). Not only did they manage to take the guy to half health, he almost didn't get a chance to run away! This doesn't feel right.

[@frog_champ]

You make some good points here. However, in regards to number 3: the 3 level 4 characters won because they had strength in numbers. This isn't an issue with bounded accuracy (it makes sense that even a relatively inexperienced warrior would hit a veteran soldier at least some of the time), but one could argue that this is an issue with the action economy in 5e. Either way, it's not unrealistic to imagine that a group of weaker adventurers could work together to take down a single veteran adventurer.

[@captcorajus]

Nate. Slow natural healing and healing kit dependency in the back of the DMG, been using it since I started running 5E :) XP Budget? Completely ignore it. I 'ballpark' it just like you do. Totally agree with you on the 'kitchen sink' aspect of the game.

[@lostonwallace1396]

I love that you did this video. Too many people are afraid of criticizing anything online today because people tend to get bent out of shape over anything that has the slightest bit of negative ring to it. I salute you for doing so, because it prompts discussion, and hopefully can lead to constructive dialogue and food-for-thought. We learn through criticism, and I don't think it's healthy to shy away from sometimes expressing are thoughts on things like this. Here are a few of mine. There not meant to insult or offend anyone. There just a record of how I kind of see things in regards to D&D and most RPG games in general. I require know one to agree or disagree with anything I express in the comments. Ignoring what is written here is a very valid choice, but I don't think I'm stating anything that is all that controversial or even that critical. Just some observations and some common sense, I hope: The moment that players got to know DM gaming matrix/secrets and people started seeing all of the DM's rolls, etc, AD&D kind of jumped the shark a bit. I get that there's more money to be made if you can market to players, but taking the power and mystique away from the DM just so TSR, etc could sell more supplements did the game no favors. It was a business move, and the DM's role has taken some hits from that. As a longtime player and a DM who has been playing since the mid 1980s, I always enjoy the greatest rule of all: Knowing when to ignore the dice roll. You're not playing the game to win at a craps table, you're playing a game have a good time. To be part of a fun and exciting story. To get a chance to participate and shape that story. The DM is and should always remain the prime mover, and if it becomes necessary, there should have house rules in effect. Just because it's written in a book doesn't mean that the DM needs to adhere to it. The books should be seen as guidelines, not as absolute law. To me, a good DM is all about creating, first and foremost, fun for the players, developing interest in the setting, and about helping players develop their own characters so that they can invest in them. A good DM motivates games to role play, and the dice rolling aspects of the game should remain secondary. Dice rolling and rules are absolutely necessary, sure, but sometimes it's best to just move the story forward. For instance, if a player is a thief, and he or she wishes to be stealthy, it might not be necessary to roll a check for that situation, considering that you already know that the tower they're exploring has been long abandoned. Rather than rolling dice over and over, you might just say something like, "You cautiously move up the ancient stone staircase, clinging to the shadows. You take great care to move as silently as possible with great success. Your footsteps are like a whisper. When you reach the floor above, you find that you have ascended into a once-grand library filled with ancient tomes, statuary and odd baubles." Since there is no one in the tower other than the player, there really isn't much need to have the player roll every 10 feet of stairs for stealth, unless of course, you want to ratchet up extra fear, and don't mind the extra time involved. My point is simple: There's no need to roll dice for everything. There just isn't. A good DM knows when, and when not to. They also have to use their own judgement when it comes to the gaming rules/mechanics as well. A DM get all types of gamers playing in the games the run, and all these people play the game with different approaches and for different reasons. It's important to be a good referee and try to make people happy, but you also can't let some players run all over others too. Power gamers are rampant in all RPG games. You're always going to find players who want to manipulate the system. There will always be rules lawyers too. You just have to be able to deal with your gamers if they are becoming disruptive. The best way to do that is to be a DM who lets players knows what will and will not fly in the games they run. House rules. Maybe they're not for everyone, but they always worked well for me. Some players hate the idea of them, sure. The great thing about that is: no one is obligated to play. If a DM doesn't like a particular rule in a book, there's no need to use that rule. An alternate rule or idea can be applied instead. It's important for a DM to let your players know ahead of time that they plan to do things differently so that it's understood. When all the players are on the same page as the DM and vice-versa, then everyone can go about enjoying a fun time gaming. It's just common sense, folks. It's not that hard. It really isn't. I've disliked things about every single RPG game I've ever played. No rules are perfect. No DM or player is either. The goal should always be simple: Having fun. That's all that ever truly matters.

[@bryansmith844]

I like the idea of concealed death saves. Not the DM rolling, but the player rolling and now showing to the party unless a PC makes a medicine check-then they can see how many fails/passes.

[@saytobelwyyn]

Your first gripe goes back all the way to 1st edition. Gygax borrowed the idea from a naval battle game where the ships had armor class

[@garethmason7920]

A few rules i do is: If a character Hit Points go past 0 out right, i kill that character off in a single blow. If however the HP lands on 0 after being hit, then i get the player to roll death saves. I think this way it adds a level of skill and tatics. Plus i always try and kill off at least one character in a campaign, to give the players a sense of reward doesnt come without loss. Long and Short Rest. I do use the system of 8 hours or 7 days, as i too like the realism. That being said i make sure players stock up on healing potions before adventures. I believe as well, that it makes players use a more tatical approach to everything , rather then just charging in and using up valuable time to rest.

[@garethhamilton1252]

Complacency cost my group of players their 1st character death last session. The are level 10 and been playing in my home brew campaign for about 2 years and not suffered a single PC death. (I’m a softie when it comes to playing the monsters in that I don’t attack unconscious characters unless there aren’t any sensible alternatives) so after a long fight with many swamp monsters the monk gets bitten by a pair of giant frogs and falls unconscious and nobody, not even me thinks much about it. Heck not even the monk player says anything to ask for aid from the other players. So it comes back round to the giant frogs turn and they both have the unconscious monk grappled and restrained and are fighting over his body and then And only then did it dawn on me and the other players including that short of som lucky dice rolling the monk was going to die. The dice weren’t lucky for the monk and a 10th level hero gets killed by a par of CR 1/4 monsters. What an ignominious end! There was shocked silence at the table as everyone realised that they could have on their turn saved the monk, but no characters die in D&D right? Playing again tomorrow for the first time since ‘the death’ and it will be interesting to see how the players approach has changed. I’m going to guess not a lot.

[@JorisVDC]

I get it that you don't want to kill their character as the caring human being. Yet as DM you are bringing to life this world. Monsters don't care if someone is not responsive, they'll just be 'nom nom nom'. Unless there is someone nearby threatening them. Make it immersive, a bunch of zombies isn't going for the next person, they'll even start feasting on the downed character while they are getting smashed by it's friends because 'brains!' Now that they are finally sorted close to their objective, why bother over physical attacks?

[@TorianTammas]

Gareth Hamilton- Yes you will notice as players stop to invest so much time and effort into their character. They will instead optimize the game piece. Load on as many potions they can get, min max the characters, min max the gear. This is a wonderful way to grow yourself a group of powergamer. They will learn stats and optimization is everything.

[@thomasalegredelasoujeole9998]

The hit dice reminds me of the first D&D edition, where your only real health points are your first dice. Then your pool actually represents your capacity to defend yourself. So you could say hit points are actually how much you can parry or the glancing blows you can take before you are exhausted and get truly hit. I usually run this version of the rules, as long as you run on hit dice, you’re only facing glancing blows and so on. When you are on your lvl 1 starting dice + constitution, you are on the « injury » risk. Losing one of these means serious injuries and loss of limbs, loss of stats (if concussed) and so on. In that system, stabbing a sleeping humanoid means an automatic crit on this very limited pool. Also, in case of non fatal or non crippling injuries, it takes a full week of complete rest to heal one of these points.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

I have two main frustrations: 1. I want more, and heavier setting books. Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide is really underwhelming, I'd like it to be twice as thick with more concrete information such as populations, factions export/import and various conflicts that are occurring. 2. A fighter/mage. Straight up a classical 2e fighter/mage. Not an eldritch knight* with only two spell schools, not a spellsinger with a single one handed weapon. I want something resembling proper spellcasting, being able to use any sword or polearm of my choice and not rely on gimmicks. The Pathfinder Eldritch Knight was perfect with its full BAB, 9 levels of casting, d10 hit die and several bonus feats. And then I would be satisfied. Maybe some more skills like engineering. The lowered power scale is excellent, the class design is good, the racial design is satisfactory and the feats as well as the backgrounds are strokes of pure genius.

[@theatheistbear3117]

I’d recommend Kobold Press’ Midguard Worldbook. It has 450+ pages on everything you mentioned and more. I have to say that I’m not a big fan of D&D 5e, so I have to disagree with you on it. But that’s just my opinion.

[@glukolover]

One thing that I had a DM do was keep both player hitpoints and deathsaves private. Made the game feel far more dangerous when you didn't know how injured your allies were. Even if in actuality it wasn't really any more lethal. We also used the medkit rule for short rest. Thou it was sort of made redundant given how easy and plentiful they were to acquire.

[@kevinthorpe8561]

Interesting... just play another system like Runequest

[@NefariousKoel]

I could never understand why some are so stubborn in clinging to a D&D derived system for everything. Goes to show how powerful their comfort zone can be.

[@patrickmulder2450]

I only ran a few 5e games. D&D hasn't been on my playlist much since 3e edition. Last time we played I stripped the death rolling thing out. You hit 0 you're dead. Proficiency bonuses would only count for skill proficiencies. I axed almost all the races. I axed the Warlock, the Monk, the Sorcerer, the eldrich knight and the Arcane trickster. Took away spells from the Paladin and Ranger (Everyone and their grandmother seems to be able to use magic in D&D these days). Removed the cantrips from all magic users, the way preparation works in 5e makes it flexible enough without the need for free spells. Roll 3d6 for your stats, pick a class and good luck!

[@ClosetGeek_DnD]

I wanted to add my thoughts to these arguments but you killed it.. all the things I dislike and have to micromanage were e articulated by you. Good video!

[@RenniaTrayvold]

Heh... 'game is not deadly enough'. I just got out of a session (a couple hours ago) where our lives came down to a miracle nat 20 on an NPC hero character on a death save. He had 2 fails and was a breath away from dying. Our entire party was almost entirely at the enemy's mercy, and it was down to him. If he died... that was it. We'd have lost not one person, but the entire party of four. On top of that, just last week (Same campaign) another party member's character bit the dust completely and several other party members were on death's door. And this was his SECOND character in the same campaign (and it wasn't a weak character either. If it hadn't been for him, we'd all have died). So now he's working on his third character. And if that wasn't enough, I'm on my second character because the first got eviscerated on her very first session. I'd say our game is pretty deadly xD

[@Mantorp86]

I'm a newbie in TTRPGs and I mostly play solo but when I read the rules of DnD 5e those were the same things that bothered me. The most annoying is the feeling of being tied to the world that WotC created. I'm like more games with the rules that are not tied to the world so you can create wolds of your own. The problem with the resting in dungeons can be solved with wandering encounters (like in OSR games) - no more carefree resting :) The system that I like the most is Dominion Rules - it solves most the problems you mentioned and it's free.

[@No-is2cj]

Ahh the last point was something as a new DM I've suffered myself. I'd built a world with all unique lore, mapping, races, including the loss of magic thousands of years ago. Perhaps it was my players, but nobody really seemed interested in the complex lore I'd built up, which was really disappointing. I never got round to revealing the big secret of the campaign before everyone left the Discord server I was running it on without a trace. They didn't say anything before they left and I just assumed it was because I was a bad DM, I was very new to DMing and was pretty nervous about it overall. It was crushing and completely unmotivating. I guess the lesson here is the campaign must fit the players, or vice versa. No point in doing what I did if the players are only interested in combat, no point in running a combat-based campaign when the players are more invested in storytelling and roleplay. Finding suitable players is hard, especially during lockdown, with a specific campaign in mind :/

[@TheMrMantequilla]

5e is my first edition getting into dnd, I also don’t play it enough to have many things I don’t like.

[@Niksorus]

Enjoy the hell out of it, it's honestly a great system for new and veteran players ;)

[@aeleron0577]

I think it's very easy to learn this as first rpg. Character creation is pretty easy and the rules of how the game works aren't pretty hard to understand. And must important: you can always make something out of your characters even if you misbuild in the beginning. Why d&d is simple you may ask. Well, everything happens at the same time. If you are fighting an villain, all of you are doing this. In Shadowrun, which I didn't play by myself but heard of, there are three "planes of existence" which happen simultaneously. The physical world, where time is normal, the world of the mind (i believe it's called like this), where time is slower, and the world of data and hacking, where everything happens faster, all somehow interacting with each other. Now consider the consequences if your action had three different effects instead of one like in d&d. Also imagine how hard it is to write a story/develop a session as a GM. In Shadowrun, magic works way harder than in d&d. Instead of using spell slots, you need to roll your maximum power potential, then your actual power output which may not be bigger than the power potential, and after that you need to make some kind of saving throw against your own spell to not harm yourself when the power leaves your body. If i scared you array from shadowrun, I heard it's story is AWESOME, and once you worked out how all the rules work, it's even cooler.

[@TheCaptainPaxo]

A solution for your armour class complaint that I've been toying around with in my head is seperating it into "evasive AC" and "armoured AC" (combining for a "total AC") where if an attack rolls lower than one's "evasive AC" the attack is simply avoided and no damage is dealt. But if the attack roll is higher than the "evasive AC" but lower than the "armoured AC" then attack connects but deals minimum damage due to the armour doing its job. Haven't played with this system yet so I have little idea of how well it'll actually work.

[@taragnor]

I don't really feel D&D needs that, mainly because D&D's damage system is abstract anyway. When you take "Damage" by the dragon's bite, it really doesn't do much to you at all unless it reduces you to zero hit points. Until then it's pretty much a trivial flesh wound that doesn't impair you at all. So all in all armor as damage reduction wouldn't work well because D&D characters already soak massive blows. I understand the idea of armor as DR in games where wounds matter, but in D&D, there's really no narrative meaning to the injuries you take, they're simply meaningless numbers until you hit 0 hp.

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

Runequest, 2nd edition.

[@gyrosphinx]

I love the Edge of the Empire/Genesys system. It is a lot of fun to play, and the dice pools gives a lot of room for interpretation and unintended consequences.

[@JorisVDC]

11:00 If players don't like to 'feel restricted' they are more of the snowflake type player or not really flexible. DnD is a role-playing game, which means immersion. Your DM is determining the world your story is going to be told in and you can build off of that. It's not like DnD canon is your set of toys and the DM is taking away your toys.

[@evaahh9584]

Joris Vander Cammen ”wow, you want to actually customise your character? God what a snowflake”

[@andromidius]

I actually had to bend the rules for one of my players to NOT die. She rolled abysmally on death saving throws and it wasn't even an epic potential death - just some minor scuffle where she got unlucky. So I let her reroll the dice, coughing dramatically and looking away as if to say "I didn't see that natural 1" and she rolled well enough to at least survive another round so her party could stabilise her.

[@paulschirf9259]

For the xps budget Kobold Fight Club helps keep my ideas in-check...

[@WASD20]

For sure! Great tool.

[@zephyrstrife4668]

I can say for a fact that yes, one of the players in my group is an absolutely terrible case of "If it's in a book, I want to be able to use it" I can't pitch a mono-class or mono-race campaign because I have that one player who is all "if you want to run a human-based game, you should let us pick if we want to be half-species so that not everyone is the same" This frustrates me because sometimes I want to run a simple game where everyone is humans who haven't been exposed to extensive amounts of magical species or monsters and have the characters be surprised at running into something that would reasonably make someone in the middle ages [poop] their pants in terror when they see it. Heck, one of the games I want to try and run again is Warhammer 40k: Dark Heresy 2.0 and I'm hesitant about doing so because I would have to exclude my friend from the first several sessions due to him simply not liking the meat grinder style as an introduction because he feels it adds too much anxiety. But the reason I want to do it is so I can tell everyone to basically make 4 NPCs that they have to keep at least 1 of by the end of the fourth session and get everyone in the mindset of "This is meant to be a game about horror and madness where you feel like you're a tiny fish in a huge pond surrounded by big fish you never knew were there" Having these throw away characters helps everyone understand that their characters aren't meant to be heroes in that game, they're desperately trying not to become victims as they learn about the true horrors of the 41st millennium.

[@Faint366]

The problem with tying damage to HP is that if you start losing you will almost certainly keep losing. There’s not a very good chance of an underdog coming back from the brink of defeat or snatching victory from the jaws of death. Every fight will either be a complete blowout by whichever side deals damage first, or an incredibly long slog as both parties deal less and less damage every subsequent turn

[@00blaat00]

"Armor class is tradition!" Yeah? So was Thac0, but thankfully that was dropped too...

[@DaeranAngelfire]

Call of Cthulhu 7th edition is the best for me, systemwise and rulewise. Also we started Adventure in Middle Earth and it's amazing. We also play Kult Divinity Lost, very strange and dangerous but very easy with rules, and of course Old School Essentials that's basically D&D 1st edition B/X. I love how quick and straight was the first edition back then. Maybe too dangerous and deadly but with a few fixes it becomes adorable.

[@chetmcgovern9985]

I think 5e is great, compared to the other options available it's a great mix of all the things that make up a good RPG. Although, I don't think it's just you... 5th edition isn't very deadly. I've found the best way to remedy this is hand out exhaustion more or use 15, instead of 10, for the threshold to make death saving throws. You could even incorporate more rules from earlier editions if you felt it wasn't bad enough. On the other side, you can also just limit the resources in the game that are needed to bring someone back from the brink.

[@christopherford8218]

Agreed

[@Wesley_Youre_a_Rabbit]

As I’ve played other TTRPG systems I’ve realized that 5e is more like a video game simulator than other systems, Particularly the more OSR-inspired systems. And I think that’s part of the reason why it got so suddenly popular among people who would usually not play, or have no exposure to, TTRPGs; because it plays like a video game. You rest and recover all of your hp, you get XP for killing things, you can fight down to your last hit point and then just pop back up and fight some more, and it’s easy for you to mechanically min-max as if you were playing Skyrim or something. It’s basically a roleplay-lite system for people who are used to speaking video game language. The good thing about this though, is that it is attracting more players into the hobby. And while most will probably just linger at the tip of iceberg, unwilling to let go of their beloved vanilla 5e, there are some who will dive deeper, see 5e for its faults as well as its strengths, and dive into different systems, becoming true table top role players. Heck they may even get into a real man’s game like Lamentations of the Flame Princess 😜

[@JdJdR]

8 hours short rest, I always liked it...But never had the chance to use it in a game.

[@wicrosoft8091]

I am using it in a gameand it is great, I have to think every time I want to cast a spell whether it is worth it or if I should save it for later. I play a bugbear paladin btw

[@kevingriffith6011]

If you're planning on using something like that, I absolutely think that you should consider permitting classes with abilities that are restored by a long rest to recover these abilities on a short rest instead. A first level sorcerer essentially having only 2 first level spells for an *entire adventure* is really punishing for the class. I'm aware that you could play one of the short rest classes, and they can work quite well here, but ultimately this becomes very limiting for classes that rely heavily on resources they only regain after a long rest.

[@wicrosoft8091]

@@kevingriffith6011 As long as you can take long rests at points (e.g. in taverns) and you dont waste spells then its normally fine. The melee characters are actually the ones who suffer the most if you go too long without a long rest because their hp gets low.

[@kevingriffith6011]

@@wicrosoft8091 That also brings back the old school opportunity cost issues that made some spells never get used. Spells like Sending, a very valuable tool for story and RP purposes, suddenly become a huge risk because that's a Fireball you won't be able to cast until next week. I am pretty opposed to stripping PCs of options in general, because while sure they'll be wondering "is it worth it to use one of my spells now", and that can be fun, it also means that every turn will easily degrade to "I hit it, I cast Firebolt, I cast Toll the Dead"... and I really don't like combats that boil down to smashing stat blocks together without any interesting decisions to be made.

[@newslime1]

Nate, have you seen Pathfinder 2e's death system? It works like a better designed version of 5e's. The short summary of it: If you go down, you need to roll 10 + your dying level to get up (Start at Dying 1). When you get up, you are now Wounded lvl 1. If you go down again, you start at Dying 2 (1 + your wounded level). You need a to roll a 12 to get to dying 1, then an 11 to get to dying 0 and get up. At Dying 4 you die. This punishes players who are careless with going down HARSHLY while still in the realm of 5e's balance of difficulty vs accessibility. It's lenient like 5e but punishes you for overdoing it. As for the overhealing, I hear you. What I do in my games is the following: 1) I cut players' hit dice in half (rounded up) 2) I make it so players who are proficient in the medicine skill are able to use healer's kits to try to boost creatures during a short rest, and give them a limited amount of "max heal" hit dice. So for example the party medicine special rolls a medicine check (I established the DC in my rules) for each creature, expends 1 use of the healer's kit for each attempt, and for each successful attempt, that creature gets 1/2 the medic's proficiency bonus+1. A level 9 character with +4 proficiency lets his party members get up to 3 "max heal" hit dice during that short rest, if he succeeded his medicine check on them. Sorry if that was a bit poorly worded. Anyways, that's how I handle overhealing while also providing a way to get some of that healing back by use of a previously utterly useless skill. Still have to playtest this more though.

[@markfaulkner8191]

I am out of date and just noww getting back into D&D. But in AD&D1 and 2, what I used to do is also call a KO when reduced to 0. Then the character would loose 1hp per round until the got to -10, then they died. It was easy to heal with magic, but the players had a ticking clock for extraction and triage. There were also things such as blasts of dragon fire that would take you below -10 in one shot, or knock you out of the sky when your wings of flying turned to ash.

[@jordansmart6359]

First of all with death what I do is make a check to stabilize someone 15 because let’s be real here, 10 is way to easy. I personally don’t go farther because in my games death is not rare, but that’s just my games. If you still find death isn’t that common and you want more just make death save 15 instead of 10 so a character is more likely to bleed out. I agree resting is really hard to deal with and balance, and I find you will have to play in different ways to find a way you like to run your game. I also find it depends on the type of game you want. For me I once gave long rests a requirement like sleeping in a town of some sort, and that you can’t do it in the wilderness or dungeons. You can give the players a pool of short rests in a way, so like you can give the players 2-3 short rests per long rest. Also there is a rule that won’t let characters take a long rest until 8 hours after there last long rest. This rule may be tedious but in a faster paced game it can help reduce long rests. But what I like to do is give the adventure a time limit, which can be even more fun if players don’t know what the time limit is, this can give rests a risk/reward value. For example let’s say a cult ritual takes 4 hours to perform, so the characters have to stop them within the next 4 hours. The characters can take an hour rest to get health and abilities back but let the cultists get an hour closer to finishing their ritual. Now I really like this risk/reward way, but it only works in certain circumstances and like I said before, every person and campaign had their own preference. Last note when it comes to a 4th level character spending all their hit dice to get 20+ health, it doesn’t bother me since next rest they just flat out won’t be able to heal. But I guess how that can be a problem in a more realizing gritty setting.

[@MC-gj8fg]

To increase deadliness I changed the death save to 12 or better, instituted an immediate save or die upon dropping below 0 hp to reproduce how you could be killed outright in 2E or 3E with the -10 rule, and I use 2E Combat and Tactics critical hits. For resting, there are three resting types in my game. Short rest, long rest, and complete rest. A short rest can be taken no more than once per day and recovers 25% of missing hit points. A long rest recovers half of the character's missing hit points. Complete rest can only be achieved with a week of rest in reasonably comfortable accommodations such as at an inn and recovers all missing hit points.

[@MrElliptific]

-overpowered heroes -very low death probability -bland combat -character driven games rather than player driven -over complicated rules that restrain the narrative rather than free it -obsession with balance -zoo park -over the top magic -... and most recently, politics creeping in the game for no other apparent reason than matching current agendas. after 3 years of playing, I am growing tired of this version.

[@bonzwah1]

The way i see hit dice, its basically first aid. So like, spending hit dice during a short rest is like bandaging up wounds, applying ointments, etc etc. Unless its magical recovery, their wounds dont just magically close up or anything. I represent spent hit dice in canon by making my players understand that they are bandaged up and visibly injured but just able to keep tanking on. It kinda ties to my opinion that a level 20 human fighter is still physically just a human. So having a bajillion more hitpoints and hit dice doesnt mean the level 20 fighter is made of metal, it is an abstraction of how skilled the character has become at mitigating incoming damage and how tough and strong willed they are that they dont fall unconcious until they've gotten every ounce of performance out of their body. I think many people think hit points just imply that you can get run through with a greatsword multiple times and i dont see the game that way and if you're having trouble reconciling how hit dice work then maybe you need to shift your understanding of what hitpoints are trying to abstract.

[@Avalanche616]

My top 3 hates of 5th edition is bounded accuracy, skills connected to tools, and the subtraction of spell stacking. My main game is pathfinder.

[@the11382]

What is wrong with them?

[@Avalanche616]

@@the11382 it's bad

[@the11382]

@@Avalanche616 Elaborate.

[@troyschnierer2940]

I cut it to 2 death saves in one campaign. Crit fail death save and your dead. Also introduced the interrupted rest idea. If their long rest is interrupted they only recover 50% HP and spell slots etc. We talked amongst the group and worked out how to manage this together. The group was into the idea of a more dangerous and gritty feel. Death is an actual possibility.

[@troyschnierer2940]

Also used a modified lingering injuries table where magical healing was less helpful in eradicating the injury.

[@adrianwebster6923]

What about applying a diminishing returns system for death saves? Lvls 1-X get the full 3 failures then after level X it is now 2 due to cumulative damage over the character's life time, and this can be reduced 1 or or none at even higher levels. This is offset somewhat by the hit point gain with levels, thus the greater the hit points, the greater the risk when you drop to 0. Of course this is still dependent on DM balancing encounters well, but it could create more sense of risk.

[@MrChupacabra555]

Here's the thing: I've read through the 5E rules and they are good. Unfortunately, I'm now deeply into the 'sunk cost' fallacy: I've spent so much on Pathfinder 1st Edition that I'm not even going to shift to PF 2nd Edition, much less D&D 5E. Luckily, there is enough similarity between 3.5, D&D 5E, and PF 1 and 2 that it doesn't take too much work to convert the adventures, at least, between any of the editions (and hell, with a LOT of work, you could convert even Basic and up to any of these editions, if the adventures are worth it).

[@christopherford8218]

I do a 3.5 and 5th edition hybrid

[@Mr.MokuDanza]

While I'm new to playing 5e, only complaint I have is that I can't use something that takes a bonus action as a regular action also (Ex. Converting Spell slots to Sorcery Points for Meta Magics can only be done as a bonus action).

[@sahanii]

I am a player. Dwarf bear barbarian. To add abit of fun and "realisme", i rp when my clothing would be damaged, bloodied or simply getting dirty, like arrows or bloodsplatter when swinging my massive greataxe etc. Barbarians are fighting naked when looking technically at it, so this adds that bit of flavour/consequence. (im lv 4 ive gone through 3 shirts, all 3 ended as bandages after a battle) I also visit our ranger after combat, in order to get those 7 arrows out of me. (since he is used to doing it to slain animals) But then again.... i love flair, i believe it adds alot of "realisme" to the game. AS a player, the gm cant add to much flair, because some players just wants to abuse every word the gm says.

[@JarlHavi]

For the death problem you can also go Human Revenant from Unearthed Arcana which prevents you from dying, lol. It also makes a good race choice for someone who wants to play as Marvel's famous bounty hunter, Ghost Rider.

[@shaneannigans]

Thoughts from a noob: 1. I agree. Change it to "Defence" 2. I prefer it not be deadly and agree that people will be more attached to characters. Mind you, this is coming from someone who likes board games like Descent 2e and Gloomhaven where you cannot 'die'-you can only be "knocked out" or "exhausted" respectively. 3. I don't have enough experience to have an opinion but agree occasional permanent death makes it better. 4. I agree. 5. I agree 6. I disagree. A DM can always leave out particular races or monsters that don't fit in with their world/campaign. Eg I don't like Tieflings or Dragonborn but I'm glad those options are there for other people who do like those races and associated lore. My favourite famtasy setting is FFG's Terrinoth. Some have accused it of being 'generic'. I prefer 'familiar'. And nobody is forcing us to use/not use particular featureS included in the PHB or MM 😊

[@helixxharpell]

Good morning Nate! 1st off let me say I'm thoroughly enjoying your channel! I'm an old guy. (57 yrs old) I started gaming @ 15. I've written for TSR, GW & the Flames of War games. Been out of gaming for nearly 16yrs & recently got back into D&D bc my grandson wanted me to run him & his friends thru Forgotten Realms for his bday party this month. They're ages 11-13. Have you ever thought about a series of videos for that age group? Would love to see it!

[@WASD20]

Great suggestion. Always appreciate them. Happy gaming!

[@SanjayMerchant]

One tool for increasing the deadliness of your game is de-emphasizing (possibly outright discarding) the idea that encounters should be fair, balanced or in any way created with the players in mind. 4e got much more flak than 5e for being too safe, but one of my first times playing 4e was with a DM who had adapted a 2e (or was it even 1e) module, unfair encounters and all. Knowing that the giants are each CR 15 when your party is all level 4 really changes how you treat danger. And since we only knew their CR because of a natural 20 on a knowledge roll, it also meant we made no assumptions about whether or not we could actually take other creatures we found. This isn't to say every combat should be certain death. Sometimes it'll actually be grossly unfair in the players' favor. And maybe it'll be a reasonable fight most of the time, but the players don't necessarily know which a given fight is in advance. Doesn't fix some other things like easy healing and such, but it does help instill a sense of danger in the players if they can no longer rely on the idea that the DM is going to give them a winnable fight every time.

[@Acidfox64]

On the kitchen sink tab: I am DM, I run an exploration game and I have given my players a couple of races they could play and all the others are off limits. for now. untill they discover the new races they can't play as them and even their charakters have to die to play as the new races. problem is, they are too invested in their current charakters, a throwaway npc dies? let's have a wake for 3 days...

[@WASD20]

😂

[@MinecraftLovesSteve]

The way I as a DM combat not dying or being deadly is that you HAVE to make a medicine check with a raising DC based on how they got knocked out if they want to stabilize their ally. I found that healing an ally making saving throws was just too easy as any paladin, cleric, bard, or even druid could just simply bring em from death's door. Additionally, something that I've seen on critical role and had players think they could do is force-feed a dying ally a healing potion. Not in my games. How is your ally gonna get that down their throat without choking if they're knocked out?

[@huntermcdonald7935]

My one big complaint for a system I love is the sloppy addition of spells to monsters. Just *splat* 9 levels of spellcaster on this monster that I have to worry about now. Just give me some spell-like abilities with a (3/day) marker or something.

[@N0-1_H3r3]

One of the things Wizards of the Coast got right in 4e, and then went back on in 5e...

[@huntermcdonald7935]

@@N0-1_H3r3 we sound like Matt Colville . . .

[@TalespinnerEU]

Since you asked: I really like Talespinner (.eu). Well; Talespinner: A Roleplaying Game is its full name, but hey. (This is a free game, by the way. Everything's on the web page. So you don't need to worry about money to check it out). It does address death a bit more; everyone has but 10 'hit points,' and as you get lower, you accumulate penalties. Once you're down to 3 or less, you start dying (which is bad). And then, at 0, you're dead. Resurrection... Is possible if you can find a #5 necromancer, but it's a pretty heavy cost for the necromancer (they sacrifice 2 wound boxes just to keep you kicking), and you yourself will be undead. Which means no natural healing or naturally recovering from exertion. Healing takes time; a week for a wound box, but this can be faster with a medic or triage medic's care. Healing potions are quick, but they impose a fatigue upkeep that replenishes at the same rate as healing naturally. Magical healing can only be done if you're willing to hurt others for it. The result is: People want to find non-violent solutions. And I think that's great! Talespinner isn't setting-specific But it does have some suggestions on certain genres, such as removing all magic for a non-magical historical setting. Or adding zones in which you can heal without a Sacrifice for slayer games. The system has no character 'races,' no character classes, and very few creatures... But it does have a Creature Creation guide. This guide isn't focused on creature balance as such, but really functions more like a guideline. Two creatures could be vastly different in their effective power, while having the same creature score... But let's face it; how often do we make enemies for our players who are specialist in building furniture? It also has a Device skill, complete with a guide on how to create your own inventions within the game. This guide is a lot more balanced than the Creature Creation guide. On the forum, I even have a post with examples of Star Wars space ships built using the Device skill. I hope you'll give it a look, whomever reads this!

[@DStrormer]

Regarding the kitchen sink issue, I think that's more the fault of 5e's books including the assumed Forgotten Realms setting. If you strip out the setting details the book feels much easier to pick and choose from, then you lay out all the options available to your players using something like World Anvil and you get a lot less pushback. That's basically all Middle-Earth does, just using books instead of WA. If your players don't want to play in your world, it's probably good to discuss why. Maybe your world just doesn't offer the kind of game they want to play. Maybe they're burned out on it and need to play a palette cleanser first. This is why I love Fantasy and Modern AGE from Green Ronin. There's setting-specific books, but also settingless books (plus it's an incredibly enjoyable system, seriously try it.)

[@314R81UP]

A really easy way to make your game more deadly that is entirely within the rules is to make a melee attack against a downed character, which will cause 2 failed death saves. Now they only get one save to roll and the rest of the party is pressured to heal or risk being down a party member. My major complaint, coming from 3rd ed, is that dumping int has no penalties. I was always a skill monkey, so nerfing int bugs me to this day

[@jeremoople]

I almost always prefer non-DnD systems, especially the small, niche, indie stuff. However DnD, especially 5e has one HUGE blessing: adventure modules. For someone who doesn't have the time or patience to plan a campaign from scratch, it's amazing to be able to buy something like Lost Mines of Phandelver and play it with friends like you would a board game with no preparation whatsoever. I know other games can have adventure modules, but very, very few of them do, at least not in the immense quantity and quality of 5e.