$60,000 EV BATTERY PROBLEM - WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT? - ENGINEER EXPLAINS 8 THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW

Recently, a problem with battery replacement cost for electric cars has become a hot topic - making everyone very nervous about buying EVs in general (the issue was highlighted in recent videos by @motormouth channel). But there is also a lot of misunderstanding about this problem, and as a result, people don't know what to do. Automotive Engineer David Chao explains exactly what is going on with this battery problem and also provides some solutions and suggestions to mitigate this risk. In fact, David provides 8 key points that you should know about EV's battery replacement issue.
Automotive Press is owned and managed by David Koichi Chao, a global expert in the field of automotive evaluation, engineering, and strategy. With over 35 years of engineering experience, David is able to review vehicles from unique perspectives utilizing technical and specialized methods. David is a board member and a director at AJAC (Automobile Journalist Association of Canada).
David is known around the world as an authentic specialist of Lean/Agile Thinking, and travels all around the world to review vehicles and teach latest engineering methods. Born and raised in Japan, David has an engineering degree from University of British Columbia and post-graduate education from MIT and Harvard Business School in Boston.

[@rightlanehog3151]

David, Thanks for the analysis. I will retain my comfortable position on the sidelines while the early BEV adopters figure it all out. 😉

[@raycollington4310]

Good technical content in this video. I won't be going near an electric car any time soon. Thank you.

[@PapioRed]

As a lifetime learner, appreciate all the knowledge you bring through this channel.

[@SebastianJose]

Koodo’s to Motormouth youtube channel for bringing this up public. The production of EVs from traditional car manufacturers were immature due to competition and rushing to get a spot on today’s market.

[@terrancecloverfield6791]

I blame the government forces that were pushing the car manufacturers to rush poor products to meet ZEV quotas and carbon tax credits in California.

[@GeoffSeeley]

You didn't touch on the issue with water ingress to the battery pack. There was a story in October about a Scottish couple's Telsa having it's battery damaged by rain water and Telsa not covering it under warranty.

[@davidgonzales82]

Appreciate the video. I will steer clear of an EV. I am sure in the long run they will be fine but I am not going spend my money there given the current limitations of an ev.

[@darssmare915]

Nice aspirations but reality is very far from it. Many dealers in Canada absolutely don't care about the cars they sell. Faster or easier those break, the better. Nissan dealers for example claim there is no maintenance package for their infamous CVT. Electric cars are at the apex of the patsy game dealers play. The best one can do right now for going green is to buy a Toyota hybrid.

[@Freynightwalker]

Good overview David I think this incident reveals another limitation of the current BEVs. Therefore, they are not an appropriate investment at this time.

[@jsfbay1]

As an engineer myself, the most obvious solution is as you said, to beef up the protection cover. Make it thicker. Make it with a honeycomb design for added strength. I'm not a mechanical engineer though, so I don't know if a cover could be made that would support the weight of the vehicle (for instance, thinking of getting high centered in an off-road situation.)

[@GenealogistBuchanan]

I especially liked your idea of adding a lower bumper/shield ahead of the battery for extra protection. Why does Hyundai's replacement battery cost $60,000 when Tesla's is $22,000? Also there are shops that will repair damaged Tesla batteries. In the case of one out-of-warranty car, Tesla quoted a battery replacement cost of over $20,000 and an independent shop with a Tesla-trained technician repaired it for about one quarter the cost. It may take several years before we have this kind of support for non-Tesla cars. (And insurance companies are prepared to use them.)

[@johndiaz7240]

Great subject, my wife and l were talking about battery replacement in a EV. Unfortunately for now EV are throw away products because there will be improvements and the ones now no one is going to want .

[@justinhogue9861]

That's true. Kinda like a 8 year old phone.

[@petesig93]

Hyundai/Kia are standardising battery packs with their e-gmp battery design. Also the battery is actually modular, so separate modules could be replaced in event of damage to one or two modules only. Like I said, the battery at issue was not damaged, only the protection cover was dented up and the dealer/Hyundai stated that the cooling system was damaged. Nio are doing their swappable batteries with 5-minute change-over at battery stations, in China and now starting in Europe. All that change is developing.

[@petesig93]

The damage to the Ioniq 5 was stated as to the cooling system, between the protection plate and the battery. The battery itself was not damaged. Simple solution may be to place the cooling system above the battery rather than beneath, as well as to beef up the protection cover.

[@tommyking626]

They didnt do any diagnostic. How could they know? X ray vision?

[@iAPX432]

If you place the cooling system over the battery, the same problem that impacted the cooling system while not endangering anyone will instead impact the battery creating fire and/or explosion risks.

[@terrancecloverfield6791]

11:00 Agreed on a standardized method of diagnostics. An OBD III if we will

[@GenealogistBuchanan]

The pace of change is incredible. Lithium-nickel-manganese-cobalt batteries are being upgraded to Lithium-iron-phosphate which are now being upgraded to M3P and other designs are in the works. Toyota has been promising a solid date battery "soon" for about 8 years, and I hope they are getting close.

[@user-qc7dr3cd3q]

Just around the corner like fusion since 1975.

[@johndesmond1987]

Very good advice about checking the battery replacement cost before buying the car, because the important factor not covered in this video is the insufferable greed of the manufacturer.

[@GenealogistBuchanan]

I especially liked your idea of adding a lower bumper/shield ahead of the battery for extra protection. Why does Hyundai's eplacement battery cost $600

[@craigmcdermott2921]

Very good points.

[@jonvanhouten8369]

I personally don't think electric cars are the future just because what it takes to get the minerals out of the ground. Also, battery efficiency is terrible in the northern states with the cold temps.

[@jsfbay1]

One good solution is to lease all electric cars in hopes of minimizing the chance of damage (since you won't own the car all that long.) Your idea of adding a 2nd layer of protection is a good one. The 2nd layer could even be some sort of super-strong plastic material, assuming that the manufacturers' cover is pretty strong to begin with. Then if you do run over something, you can just remove the added cover before taking the car into a dealer, and hopefully all will be well. Very good idea David!

[@tchauish]

Thanks for the information! EV cars are not main stream yet. It is a niche per auto maker.... too much $ and safety.

[@iulian2548]

There hasn't been a better time to keep using the old car until tje technology matches the expectations. Nice sensible arguments presented, but not convinced about the ev opportunity for at least until SS batteries are a proven technology.

[@jsfbay1]

Another thing the manufacturers could do is not price the replacement part so high. We know that the cost of a part in the parts department is much higher than it's cost on the BOM of a new car. Just pass on the part at cost. David - do you know what the mark-up is on an electronic component in the replacement parts chain? 100%? 200%? More? Or I suppose each component could have a different markup.

[@TranTek]

CATL has come up with batteries frame and motor as kit best way is to make them each batteries pack are smaller modular parts so which ever damage part can be replaced instead entire big piece

[@4Runner123]

Let’s make a list: Avoid all debris that may bounce off tires or under car. Do not drive through water that sometimes you can’t avoid. Do not charge your batter to over 80%. Do not let battery drop to less than 20%. Avoid using fast chargers they are hard on batteries. Let’s add more protection underneath the car making a heavy vehicle even heavier. Let’s all buy electric vehicles so we don’t have enough electricity to power our homes(rolling brown outs). In colder climates you use battery power to keep battery packs warm. Please add to the list….

[@hammertyme8392]

Raise the car to add more clearance which will void the warranty and increase cost. Adding more protection increases the weight which decreases the range. Don't buy an ev if you live in extreme cold or extreme heat.

[@GoogleUser-qp8mb]

Make sure you move to a moderate climate region to avoid extreme temperatures that cause fast battery degradation. Always carry 100 bottles of fire extinguishers to stop the unstoppable battery fire Remove a lot of EV car parts to reduce the weight so you could reduce the fatality caused by heavy battery pack Plan more charging time in cold weather, because it takes longer Do not tow anything because your range drops by up to 72% Make sure you save extra $5k/year to pay for higher insurance premium, higher repair bills and the inevitable battery replacement. Don’t expect any trade-in years later because EVs are not worth anything, aka disposable.

[@4Runner123]

@@GoogleUser-qp8mb I am not total anti EV but with all things you and I stated there’s a lot to think about. When I buy a new vehicle I’m looking at value, dependability, depreciation, cost of ownership. Some people have money to throw away I guess?

[@GoogleUser-qp8mb]

@@4Runner123that’s great, but all those things you mentioned are really a single thing and that is “total cost of ownership”. Typical frugal Toyota buyers only look at this one thing. I would argue that that’s just one of many considerations to most buyers. Other considerations include roominess, comfort, safety, handling, power, latest tech, features, capabilities, interior & exterior styling, luxuriousness, etc. Toyota hasn’t had these the past 2 decades and now it’s finally stepping up but at a high cost. Also, I bet it’s reliability will take a big hit

[@4Runner123]

@@GoogleUser-qp8mb I am not a frugal Toyota owner.I own 2022 4Runner TRD Pro. 4Runners are not cheap on fuel. Our second vehicle 2023 GX460 Luxury =V8. I can go camping or fishing back woods I can haul a boat or trailer on dirt/gravel roads with no worries. I can go overlanding and actually bring extra fuel. Google Rivien and see what a small dent in rear area costs to repair or who or when you can have one repaired. I couldn’t care about styling or all the bells and whistles. If I could have electronic fuel injection and air conditioning and got rid of every other feature I would be happy. Price of vehicles has gotten out of control over the years people can’t afford it. Now you’re buying disposable cars, our insurance costs are getting out of hand since a lot of electronics in an accident make costs of repair skyrocket so they get written off. Simple is better. If people knew how to drive and drove for the conditions you wouldn’t need all the nanny controls.

[@april301975]

What about making the protection “skin” spring-loaded so it travels about 1 to 1.5 inches (2.5 - 3.75 cm)?

[@ismaelcruz3315]

As being in the auto body industry for more than twenty-five years I have seen that a much more dangerous situation is in a collision the lithium batteries catching on fire. This is something that fire departments are known have to deal with. I also worked for the NYPD- Motor transport division where we repaired and retrofitted a lot equipment to these vehicles. I think that solid state batteries are the way to go in the near future. But retrofitting a metal skid plate under the battery like you stated would be the smart thing to do.

[@jimmyamico4713]

Hi David, An excellent video to try and help the public with electric vehicles… In my opinion, I just don’t think the car industry has customers best interest because of for example, they don’t have the infrastructure set up yet, which is going to take decades to do I’ve been saying this for years to people They want you to set up an electric charging station in your own home when they should be at all the gas station throughout the country but they’re doing that to save money. I don’t think it’s going till about the year 2040 it’s just so expensive not to buy but to upkeep, and then you have to figure out also the economy and how much things cost with inflation car insurance is through the roof. All insurance are through the roof. It just doesn’t make sense. Most people are struggling. The last thing they’re gonna do is to buy an electric vehicle but that’s just my opinion, I don’t see any good coming from it and I think it’s biting the car dealers now in the backside because all they were thinking about was marginal profits… however, thank you for all your positive viewpoints you are a genuine, good person and you are looking out for the clients and customers which is extremely honorable🇯🇵❤️🤍🇺🇸❤️🤍💙

[@petesig93]

One decade of real action will see a whole lot of infrastructure built. The changes in the past 5 years are enormous, and the new consumers (owners of EVs) are demanding more of it. Businesses will respond to this. Also most charging, probably over 80% of it, is going to be done at home. Home charging is a FAR cheaper cost (not to mention convenience) than to go running to a charging station in the old 'petrol-era' model of business.

[@petesig93]

BTW, re the "upkeep" and lifetime costs. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2TOdpx5mduknac

[@karlInSanDiego]

BMW i4 has also had customer cars totalled because of low speed impacts with curbs. I believe the best solution is armor the packs better, anticipating road debris incursion, and also make the battery pack case a cost effective replaceable part along with any module that might be damaged. The massive price quote and the reason cars are being written off is that the packs aren't yet being considered serviceable parts at the dealerships and they haven't received training and parts locally to do battery repair instead of replacement. That should be changed.

[@karlInSanDiego]

If you study battery packs and modules carefully, you'll see that the age of the battery cells is important to maintain uniformly throughout the pack. So current repair philosophy is to find used modules of like vintage (age and mileage) to replace a bad one. That mentality doesn't scale well at all. Instead the Battery Management Systems and High Voltage electrical system should be designed to tolerate differences in battery chemistry and age. This would lead to much more simplistic repairs of a battery, requiring a drop, test, replace bad module and reinstall scenario, that wouldn't be cheap, but could be done even at an independent shop, leading to specialist garages who become proficient at it for a variety of makes/models. They would need immediate access to replacement parts, so it's critical that manufacturers consider battery parts an important interchangeable part with reverse compatibility with older designs if they revise parts. This is how you build more sustainable EVs.

[@official_Leonard1957]

David can you speak to what happens if a electric car is side imparted and how it could possibly damage the battery.

[@Joe-nj3bb]

Isn't the battery on Toyota hybrids under the backseat?

[@robdogg9423]

Yes they are, at least for the Prius and Corollas

[@chetmyers7041]

A hybrid vehicle has a much lighter and smaller battery.

[@omnimoeish]

That Hyundai Ioniq thing happened again where another lady got a bill for $60k on her 1 year old car. That's a complete joke. Imagine having a $60k fragile object stuck to the bottom of your car 6 inches off the ground and if you just damage the thin cover on it, your new car goes to the junkyard. Hyundai needs to copy Tesla and put something more substantial to protect it and make it easily replaceable when these get damaged.

[@user-lh9gn2rh6i]

Add a second layer of protection to the battery or raise the vehicle has its costs In reduced efficiency.

[@ohcanadaeh]

Do you think those Chinese EV with much more competitive pricing has titanium protection shield like Tesla ? Very unlikely.

[@NoShadowOfDoubt1]

Titanium cover didn’t help with salt water flooding

[@GS-pg5qz]

Are you just speculating or have you researched this. Tesla does have an excellent battery/electric system in their vehicles but they have more than enough safety issues with the rest of the actual "car" to offset that.

[@dtna]

I'm very surprised that SAE hasn't worked on this yet.

[@timothydevries383]

SAE are useless for electronics and electrical systems.

[@alwayne5932]

See David…I hear u man but in the first place whose idea it is to come up with these electric car crop..they should be the ones taking care & making sure these cars are equipped with whatever they need for the consumers..they already selling them for an arm & a leg & then turn around we buy them & have to go through all this modification just to suit who..am not worrying about no damn electric cars right now David..let them manufacture make e’m right & stop putting stuff on the consumers or else leave ICE alone

[@geminiguy2178]

No thanks, greedy dealers will always take advantage of making a profit

[@nedywest71]

Thank you! But what you are suggesting is to if your advices applied will lead to a significant increase of any vehicle to ALL customers because you are having a point of a single or very, very few examples without even know how the driver used his / hers vehicle. In this case NO Thanks. This issue is NOT common or wide spread so proposing action against at significant cost increase is not best idea although I understand your point as an engineer in the field.

[@garyclark6747]

Honestly I look for mufflers (as is in this case), drive shafts, transaxles and rear axil / suspension parts and other obstructions in my lane of travel. After four decades and millions of miles I have avoided the obvious and averted subsequent damage. Unfortunately Hyundai didn’t make mandatory policies that would have made inspection of this part before quoting it; probably because it obviously fell outside of warranty. The insurance company failed to do their due diligence because honestly it’s just easier to raise rates on this driver that obviously failed to take a lot of action in their hands. Congratulations, they got their clicks and the rates will recover the losses over the next three years or so. If you just let whatever will be, will be; it will and you’ll pay. As for my IONIQ 5 I’m avoiding tire swallowing pot holes and raised exposed main hole covers and keep from following too closely to salvage trucks and other vehicles that could obstruct my view of the road surface or inadvertently drop something on the road. Remember an upright piano coming off a truck about forty yards in front of me on I-85 in Atlanta. It’s just one of the many not near misses that just comes from being alert and having lane options at all times. #happymotoring 16:26

[@kcmega007]

Hi, I like the idea of Nio car battery swap ,and yes they all need to standardized a battery for all type of cars and swapping battery pack ,be rented in a affordable monthly or yearly price, would be great, that is why I didn't buy a ev ,instead I got a 2021 suv gasoline car ,over ev , but for a scratch or a replacement battery pack, cost $51,000 and plus labor cost $60,000 😢, 😮, no thank you, and I think the technology is still not there yet, ,,,so yeah battery swapping idea and cheap rental fee , 😅, I might consider, one , next purchase

[@39impala]

Don't buy EVs. That's the solution. Nothing more.

[@nordlandak6853]

Agree

[@GS-pg5qz]

@@nordlandak6853 Disagree

[@fifthward1983]

i appreciate and respect your opinion. that being said there are alot of ''what if's'' i have also heard ''they are working on it''. i dont want to be forced to buy one of these , i would like to make the decision myself. i do not live in california. this is a mandate in the northeast. for most of the people reading ''mandate'' is force ,kind of like a king or queens decree there is no vote ,you are being told what to do.

[@sologog8129]

I dont think that Tesla didn't have with dented batterys after road debris impact. I think their cars burned because of that.

[@Phil42069]

You can buy a Tesla model y long range for under 40k after incentives vs a 2024 Toyota Highlander gas version for 50k + options can easily get up to 60k WITHOUT incentive. Tesla battery and drive teain warranty is 8 years. Worse case you have to replace the battery after the warranty is expired, it's 16k. Not 60k like other EV.

[@miraphycs7377]

cannot compared between the two models. Model Y is two row Highlander is three row. Better to compare against RAV4. Also I find it very funny you shrugged 16k as if that is cheap

[@karlInSanDiego]

Warranty doesn't cover damage caused when driving the car. It's more that $16 when you include labor, AND that's a thoroughly used battery, not a new one.

[@Phil42069]

@@miraphycs7377 that was why I said "worse case". The same shit could happen to any car (engine, transmission...). Nothing is perfect. The point is it's not 60k to replace the battery like non-tesla EV. Model Y also has a 7 seater and it's as cramped as the Highlander. Mean for people under 5'4" on a short trip.

[@mirai_T]

Hydrogen powered vehicles are better than EV cars

[@danbryan5002]

Why is it the auto industry doesn’t address the human slavery in mining rare earth minerals, like lithium in countries like the Congo. I will never buy an EV because of it.

[@roygoble9456]

If the auto manufacturer won’t do these updates, probable not a vehicle to own. I would never buy an auto that I would have to remanufacture to make it a proper vehicle.

[@bngr_bngr]

Electric cars are a scam on consumers. It’s cheaper long term to buy another car than changing the battery.

[@alexsystems2001]

Agree, I’ll pass as well, batteries have a lifespan that varies wildly and unpredictably, Ive lost count how many times I’ve had to replace just the 12v starter battery prematurely. Some last a really long time, some don’t, some stop working with no use, some stop working with loads of use. Especially with as many individual cells in an EV battery. I usually have 2 cars, one that is brand new and is used seldomly and one that is daily driven. When the daily driven one hits end of life I get another new car and then use my spare car to daily drive in. Usually the spare care is reserved for vacations, weekend outings etc, more special trips. I would be quite upset if I had a spare vehicle that was seldom used for about 10 years and then I go to daily it and it needs a $20,000-$60,000 battery, I’d be pissed off. Heck even my grandparents bought their “last car” in 1999, it’s still on the road, goes to get groceries and runs errands, 24 years later that ICE engine is running just fine. How would a battery hold up in that time span?

[@bngr_bngr]

@@alexsystems2001 I have several vintage cars but my daily car is from 2013.

[@swainp2012]

They are not scam. I agree that like every new technology, there are opportunities for improvement. I am sure these engineering challenges need to be addressed.

[@fjalics]

There was a Tesla Model 3 that passed 300,000 miles with the original battery. How many miles do you expect a car to go?

[@bngr_bngr]

@@swainp2012 these car companies are basically telling consumers that they will need to buy a new car every 6 years or less.

[@dkell00]

you really should not encourage people to get a one-off custom protection cover as you might accidently cause damage and invalidate your warranty - sounds darn risky. Better solution is a proper after market cover (if when available) and frankly ridiculous it isn't more robust from the factory. Hyundai will likely pay for this via brand name damage.

[@terrancecloverfield6791]

He's an engineer, not a politician. He provided a practical solution that works tomorrow. What you proposed is a political solution that can take weeks or years on a product refresh. Do we wait for Toyota to offer a car cage to protect the catalytic converter? Or do we start with DIY welding and signal boost those solutions first?

[@ericgregori]

Hyundai / Kia are not known for making something to last. They are throw-away cars. Not all EV's are throw-away. Tesla uses a titanium plate to protect the batteries.

[@JP-gw9ts]

Idiot car makers need to make the battery packs REPAIRABLE and DIAGNOSABLE to smaller cell clusters Like toyota did with the 2nd gen Prius.

[@howebrad4601]

Theh won't due to the potential for thermal runaway and resulting liability

[@user-pg4vq9zm2w]

How can I be encouraged to buy an EV car when there is a huge problem of this kind? The need to be a fix of this problems by the auto makers first, that way it will gives buyers some security knowing that they can by an EV car without the worries or extra spending. The average people don't have enough money to pay for an expensive car, worry about huge insurance cost and that worry everyday about the cost of replacement battery for an EV car. It's impossible that a middle class person will want to do such an investment knowing the reprecaution if something goes wrong with the battery. Your video is very educational. Thanks for the help.

[@BunderaKZT]

I am keeping my 2014 LX, 2004 SC and 1998 Land Cruiser for as long as I live.

[@Itzallgoood]

I have the perfect solution for me. I just won't buy an EV. I'll drive my Lexus till the wheels fall off.

[@nooneop]

This problem would never happen if you drive a Nio car.

[@grahamdeitner5507]

Paying $60,000 for an EV battery?. Here's how you avoid this problem. Don't buy an EV ever. I'm definitely not sold on electric cars. I will never buy one. This story is just an example. You're going to have to pry my cold dead fingers off of the manual gear shifter and pull my cold dead body out of the driver's seat of my gas powered vehicle before I even think about buying an electric car.

[@seanleau]

battery is not the way forward for big vehicles beside motorbike. stop wasting time and money into it and stop buying into the hype. hydrogen is the way forward even the technology to harness hydrogen is not readily available yes. i love electric cars, just not power by batteries.

[@jianbinchen2881]

still not answer a ev sale for 55k but a battery sale for 60k,

[@cory5785]

Dont buy an EV

[@Redhawk24]

Bashes EV but owns a RAV4 prime…

[@jenala3896]

Long life gasoline ⛽️ car

[@tombrodzinski157]

… off road skid plates to protect already heavy battery! The load and the wear and tear on suspension and wheels is already bad on EVs. You’d have to swap tires as often as oil changes on ICE vehicles.

[@audiquagaming]

L E X U S

[@vedranbozicevic1111]

What you or we can do? Not to buy a boring and expensive electric junk.