$60 Hifi Hack makes WIIM Ultra Destroy Gear 3X the Price

[@OldGuyHifi]

I have addressed most of the questions everyone has on this device here: kzbin.infoUgkx1bsDIYjUul5EtYCyt37YhwPX7s4RNho3 Please refer to it as there are many misconceptions about how this device works. I will do a video on it soon.

[@bigmclargehuge1170]

Can you take a look at the question I asked? Nothing in that link answers it.

[@OldGuyHifi]

@@bigmclargehuge1170 I can't find your question.

[@bigmclargehuge1170]

@@OldGuyHifi If the difference is audible, it should show up on a graph. Can you show us how the FR and/or impulse response changes by bypassing the clock?

[@AbsoluteTU]

@@OldGuyHifiI think the question is: If we have a DAC (Geshelli J2) with a USB input does it do the same thing as this device? It is my understanding that the USB signal gets the “timing done” at the end of the chain (aka in the DAC) where optical sends timing information along with the signal…but so could be 100% wrong and need all the help I can get to reduce jitter etc. Thank!!

[@OldGuyHifi]

@@AbsoluteTU Yes the DAC can correct for some, but not all timing and jitter issues. In the design of all products compromises need to be made for cost vs performance considerations. In this instance it is not the DAC where the issue lies. It is the very noisy, il-timed stream coming from the WiiM that is the real issue. The SMSL unit kind of "pre-cleans" the stream so the DAC's oscillator clocks can be more accurate. My wife rinses off all of the dishes going into the dishwasher so it can do a better job of cleaning the dishes. The SMAL PO 100 is the rinse before the wash gizmo. Does that make sense? Thx.

[@dashoon1]

Good Lord! It's not a 'hack' if it's introducing a redundant device into the chain! In 99.99993% of use cases, if you have a WiiM Ultra and already use an external DAC with a USB input, if it employs asynchronous USB transfer (like the overwhelming majority of modern DACs do), the DAC’s internal clock governs the audio data timing, effectively mitigating any incoming jitter. Adding an external reclocker to the chain would be redundant, as the DAC already manages reclocking. It doesn't matter how inexpensive a device is, it's redundant and a waste of time and/or money. Stop the madness!

[@guestgoogle4979]

Couldn't agree more. You're just offloading clock duty to another rather inexpensive device (the SMSL) and trusting that it will do a better job than the wiim. Just skip this component and go straight into a well-regarded USB DAC, which will undoubtedly mitigate any clock issues inherent with the wiim.

[@tazdvalle]

I also agree. It only makes sense if you have a good DAC that has no USB input.

[@cunawarit]

Totally agree. Sadly a lot of hi-fi channels seem obsessed with suggesting "upgrades" that are entirely unnecessary.

[@danielwalsh8168]

Your point may be technically true and logical, and Randy allows for this in his video (his skepticism was like yours...until he heard the difference with his particular set-up, clearly astonishing him). I don't find his surprising experience, and astonishment, madness; I find it intriguing and compelling. And it fills my soul with happiness that someone is open enough to have their opinion changed in such a positive, enthusiastic, chid-like way. We could all learn from his humility.

[@cunawarit]

​@@danielwalsh8168 I don’t think anyone attacked Randy personally. My main concern is that this channel has built its reputation as a reliable resource for affordable Hi-Fi, and it truly excels in helping viewers understand Randy’s take on new, budget-friendly products. Thanks to this channel, I discovered brands like Aiyima and Fosi, which have been great additions to my setup. In this way, the channel has set itself apart from others that promote “snake oil” products, which can feel more like scams than genuine recommendations. It’s understandable, then, that viewers might feel disappointed seeing a beloved channel drift into “snake oil” territory. The straightforward, honest reviews of quality, affordable gear are what make this channel shine.

[@fredjoel8113]

Adding to the discussion as a long time audiophile and electrical engineer: Jitter has been a concern for decades. The WIIM Ultra is a very good product. I'd like to suggest that WIIM develop and release a high quality streaming product that includes a better clock stage along with a very good internal DAC and upgraded power supply. Unnecessary features such as the mediocre phono preamp could be eliminated as part of a new, reasonably-priced product for audiophiles. Do a few things well instead of being a 'jack of all trades.'

[@roninmantis7584]

If they would only listen to the engineers.

[@artureff3046]

The only 'but' is such gear will cost like the other better sounding ones.....over £1200.....or more.

[@muzykamniedotyka]

You mean this liitle gadget SMSL PO100 Pro is just a snake oil?

[@petec572]

Could you please show these pieces when they are actually connected to each other (instead of just verbally describing it)? This really would make what you're talking about so much easier to understand for us relative newbies. Tia!

[@cunawarit]

@petec572 He's connecting the streamer to this box via USB, then using coax or optical to the DAC. This is so he can use the clock in the box and not the streamer. However, this is completely pointless if your DAC has USB in. Just use that, and you'll use the DAC's clock. Essentially, this is a hack that's not needed for most people.

[@bespey]

@@cunawaritI took the $60 gamble, I’ll report back and we’ll see if your comment is true. Maybe it comes down to if the smsl clock is better than whatever external dac you’re using

[@cunawarit]

@@bespey it's not too bad a gamble if you have a console to use it with. It's a neat little box for its intended use, and it will not make things worse anyway 😁

[@PSzymonik]

I'm confused as well....

[@Davide_LP]

​@cunawarit but I would use the dac before the wiim ultra, doesn't make more sense? If I have DAC -> Wiim -> SUB and Poweamp, do I use the wiim internal clock???

[@pd5338]

Thanks again Randy, you started me back on my audiophile journey 3 years ago with the Wiim pro plus and now moved on the the Wiim Ultra. Just added a PO100 Pro that I was able to get through AliExpress. Everything you said and more is true. I’m going from the Ultra to the PO100 with the usb cable that came with it. And then optical out of the PO100 to optical in to my Geshelli J3 Dac with Sparkos 2590 discrete opamps. Couldn’t be happier. The improvement with the PO100 was even greater than when I upgraded the Geshelli opamps. It’s a big SQ improvement in my system which is impossible not the hear…

[@gurratell7326]

The placebo is kicking hard. I don't know who paid cheapaudioman for this "hack", but someone clearly did.

[@Elboogs]

Good to know as I have the same dac…if you have usb in the j3 that’s the best way to go, 2nd is spdif coax. Might want to try those too

[@pd5338]

@ unfortunately I ordered my J3 without USB because I thought it mostly applied for use with computers which I don’t plan to do. Just got an upgraded usb cable which to me sounds about the same as the cheap one the PO100 came with😳. I’m expecting an AQ coax cable tomorrow which is supposed to be better than USB.

[@bespey]

@@pd5338consider making your own coax cable. Thanbar has some great videos on it

[@FaithBrook-k2h]

@@gurratell7326 NOT TRUE, so if I were you I'd be real careful what you wrongly write there gurratell as gut ta un real as your unfounded guttural feelings may be seen to be here could be read as being libel & thus you may be held liable.

[@heyguyslolGAMING]

I was using the optical out from my LG C1 to feed my Dac (FiiO K11 R2R) for my gaming audio. I bought the PO100 to see if it would improve my audio and it was a noticeable difference worth the $60. Games often times have some of the best sound tracks so my experience w/ this lil device has been quite enjoyable.

[@michaeldina1103]

How did you connect TV>PO100>K11 when the PO100 will only take usb input according to the product page? This is not a critical question I’m genuinely curious.

[@danielc5191]

Hi. Pray tell. What is the setup like? Many thanks

[@bespey]

@@michaeldina1103also interested lol

[@sean_heisler]

Have you by chance done stereo left and right channel test after connecting the PO100? I just got mine today and the left and right channels are backwards. 😂 It’s been verified via numerous tests. I just flipped the left and right analog cables from my DAC to preamp at the preamp input and all is good but kind of sucks. You should run a test and see if yours is the same.

[@trachysa]

Guys... I was skeptical that this would do anything to my source chain... I am pleasantly surprised! I did this hack connecting my Macbook Pro to my Burson Composer XP. Normally i'd connect via USB to the Composer... but now i'm going through the SMSL PO100 then out of the SMSL Optical into the Burson. Then using the Soloist 3XP as a headphone amplifier. I cant believe it!! it smoothed out the harshness, improved instrument separation, echoes ring out a bit longer... i'm shocked. Things sound more natural. I keep switching between USB direct and Optical through the PO100... It looks like this little device is doing its job!! cleaning up the signal before getting to the DAC. I think i'll keep it :)

[@johnkom2339]

I also was surprised to try out a glass Optical cable that actually does sound decent. I think it has to be glass, not the plastic Toslink, but still it only cost me about $20 if I recall. And I'm using Denafrips Pontus Dac, no slouch.

[@trachysa]

@@johnkom2339 oh interesting. I am using an AudioQuest Carbon Optical Toslink which i guess is "19 Narrow-Aperture Highest-Purity Synthetic Fibers"... whatever that means lol

[@rydoggsc2]

@@johnkom2339 😂

[@Bambooken]

I had the same experience connecting my 2012 MacBook Air (dedicated as a streamer) to the SMSL PO100, then to a Topping D10. It is notable and better. More depth to the soundstage and general detail is better. A/B Comparing this to my WiiM Ulta, it’s hard to say one is better than the other. However, before the PO100, the WiiM was the winner. Next, I’ll try the WiiM with the P100 for the hell of it.

[@TheodoreBreaux]

(3:24) The WiiM Mini has an internal clock, albeit an inexpensive one. The Mini has SPDIF (Toslink and coax) outputs, and the source device controls the master clock with SPDIF connections. WiiM saves money with compact, inexpensive (noisy) switching power supplies and inexpensive clocks, which factors into its relative low cost. These shortcomings can be addressed with a decent linear power supply, and for SPDIF connections, an optical reclocker (e.g. Audiophonics DigiRescue).

[@Thoughtflux]

Reclockers/DDC is the old magic known to many audiophiles. I can stick one of these ddc with superior clocks to a raspberry pi and it will upgrade any mid-fi dac out there. The results are always stunning. Make sure you use an ultra low noise power supply for the ddc.

[@superspeeder]

This one is powered through the USB input, so no external PS option here.

[@Thoughtflux]

@superspeeder you can use LPS with USB power output.

[@superspeeder]

@@Thoughtflux The SMSL PO100 PRO only has one USB port, which is connected to the source for both power and data. There's no way I can figure you can use a LPS unless you have some method of splitting the data and power on the USB input?

[@Thoughtflux]

@superspeeder then get the douk audio one. That should have a separate DC input. If you have the budget then buy upgraded ones with better clocks like crystek. Power needs to be separate from data. The whole point is to prevent the source injecting noise into your dac. Only expensive dacs have some kind of decent isolation and most don't work great. You will immediately see a difference.

[@GeirRssaak]

Ha-ha! The old masters Philips, Sony and teac-tascam never had any problems with reclocking!

[@ThomasPetzwinkler]

So the real question is, does the geshelli have a crap clock? Use the usb in the J2S because since it’s carried over usb, it will be forced to use the DACs internal clock to reclocke the data. This isn’t just for things like the SMSL. Whenever you use usb the device you are sending to will clock the data.

[@agustinpaz1530]

But if you have the J2S without USB input?

[@sportscarnut]

An easier approach… connect the Ultra USB directly to a Schiit Audio DAC with Unison USB input. It buffers the units and reclocks with precision clocks. From Modi+ to Yggy+. It works!

[@IainMacUK]

Great, but you'll lose full base management with a sub over USB

[@aj8ky]

Even easier just connect any of the WiiM ultras outputs if you have a Chord DAC. The FPGA chip on Chord DACs uses Digital phase locked loops. This means the FPGA measures the input then it discards the source clock and creates its own working clock that’s locked with the local master clock. This removes any jitter. I use a PO100PRO, but not with WiiM and only to turn usb into optical, not for re-clocking. All the best!

[@Channel939393]

There's definitely something to this in the real world. The better the quality of the signal that I feed my DAC the better the sound quality I get from the DAC. I have something similar to the SMSL P0100, but higher end. It's a DDC with USB in and coax, optical and I2s out like the PO100. USB out from my computer goes into the DDC and it outputs via I2S into the DAC. And it's not a subtle "I think I might hear a difference," it's a dramatic upgrade in the sound quality versus going from the computer to the DAC directly, and someone would need to be deaf, dumb and blind to not hear it.

[@chrisk3127]

cheaper ones don't make much difference in my experience (I have a po100 and the douk U2pro) mostly just filters out USB noise from my PC and small tweaks to how the soundstage is

[@bespey]

What model do you have?

[@MichaelEntner]

HUGE difference on my SMSL D400EX (with the dual AKMs) DAC being fed via I2S from my WiiM - it’s sounding like a $3-5k streaming setup (no lie) as I’ve done A/B testing. Blows the doors off the SPDIF/coax feeds.

[@MrPvdveer]

which DDC do you have ?

[@graysonjung6982]

어제 구매해서 장착해보았습니다 확실히 해상력이 높아지고 소리가 밝아진 느낌입니다 감사합니다!!

[@FaithBrook-k2h]

Bravo, well there you go folk, yet another whom has discovered how well this device works, well done!!!!

[@blinkingmanchannel]

I love these little tidbits of sonic wisdom. I asked Geshelli if they could tweak their preamp to... they said not... but the DayZee is in the oven so this smsl doohicky will be very welcome! Thanks!

[@pittstategorilla]

Hey Randy...purchased and installed the Ultra and both of the suggested SMSL components. Installed one at a time and made a clear and fabulous sound as I layered them in. I have them backed with an old school 2 channel Pioneer receiver and have an awesome system. Thanks!!

[@marchuvfulz]

Had the strangest experience with this video. It opened with the soundtrack playing Indonesian. When I checked the language settings, the original English soundtrack was unavailable. French, German, Japanese, Hindi, yeah, but not English. Weird. Restarted the video and the problem fixed itself. Anyhow, interesting vid. Had no idea an internal clock would make such a difference.

[@TwinArrowsAdventures]

Same here.

[@LordWaterBottle]

This is the new 301 club.

[@Terry-hl5eo]

I decided to try the PO100 Pro "hack" and I can not believe I am saying this but what a major improvement from just coming out of the Ultra optically into a Cambridge Dac Magic 200 into a Marantz 2240 then out toa pair of Dynaco A25's It is amazing how it sounds to me like the highs have "opened up" even on this 90% vintage system. Best $70 I spent this holiday season.

[@bedbath9056]

Where is your source coming from ? sportify ?

[@Terry-hl5eo]

@@bedbath9056 Tidal via ethernet. Sorry for leaving out details.

[@MrTonycarpets]

Don't know what I'm doing wrong but I've tried the p100, and I get really low volume, am I doing something wrong

[@Terry-hl5eo]

@@MrTonycarpets How are you connecting it?

[@bedbath9056]

I am confused by your setup. Why you are going WIIM USB Out -> P0100 -> Dac Magic 200 -> Marantz 2240 -> Dynaco A25 Speaker ? Can't you just go WIIM USB Out -> Dac Magic 200 -> Marantz 2240 -> Dynaco A25 Speaker ? Looks like P0100 is redundant or actually degrading sound quality ? Your Dac Magic has better clocking no ?

[@mreigenberg]

That’s a nice trick for results. If I’m not mistaken, Roon also does clock correction automatically on its end points.

[@jungtarcph]

If you run USB out to your Geschllli DAC, the DAC uses its own clock. (async). If you run coaxial out, the stremers clock does the work, but it depends on the DAC. Some DACs have internal reclocking.

[@robertldcarlson]

So if I'm planning on buying a Geshelli J3, no need for this product?

[@britishskiing]

@@robertldcarlsonor all DACs with a USB input. This products is pretty much pointless.

[@cheapaudioman]

@@britishskiing you guys need to go check out the Paul McGowan vid he did on clocking. Like I said in the video though. Don’t take my word for it. Try it yourself.

[@Artcore103]

@@brannonmcevers1854 100% right. He's not the source to be educated on the engineering side of audio electronics AT ALL. Very much a subjectivist with old school thinking.

[@naastradamus]

So then the test would be to see if you hear audible differences between WIIM USB output directly into J2 vs. using the re-clocker in-between. I think Randy usually uses Optical into the J2 so this is another variable in this wild world of HiFi fun

[@0robbi0]

On the day of this video, I managed to buy the last PO-100 Pro from Amazon, UK. Sorry about that lol It was a bit of a faff getting PC/PO-100/Denafrips dac via i2s to play together nicely as the manual is as useful as a politician. However, after a listening session, I can confirm that this little box does indeed do as advertised by El Cheapo. Well worth the £49.49 I paid. Thank you, Randyman.

[@felipeneri3364]

Hi Randy, Could the sound improvement be because a different external DAC was used? When using the SMSL, does it disable the Wiim's equalizer and volume control?

[@don7680]

Doesn't the external DAC do the clocking when using the USB output on the Ultra? I'm confused.

[@soumyajitdeb3943]

Yes USB output is asynchronous - the DAC 's internal clock will be used.

[@TriAmpMyFi]

@@soumyajitdeb3943 You're correct, PLUS reclocking the spdif connections requires a cache. There is probably going to be some audio lag when playing/streaming music videos or movies. Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊

[@cunawarit]

I was thinking the same thing, the DAC will use its own clock.

[@JoshFisher567]

When looking at this and the other model linked it seems like the only difference between this and similar products is they both have an XMOS chip. Even from SMSL's description it's really meant for laptops and possibly game consoles. I could see where this might help on a laptop, where the output is noisy and the clock isn't tuned for audio because that's not it's primary purpose. This would mean if there is an improvement then the USB output on the WiiM is the issue. One of the reviews even said he had zero issues when listening to his WiiM streamer on his DAC but when he switched over to his laptop, sound quality was worse and this device did improve audio quality. That I could see as potentially being true At the end of the day any decent quality DAC is going to do a better job of any relocking that's needed. I know in a DAC the relocking used starts to matter more when you get into 2, 4 or even 8 DAC chips as the master clock has to keep the DAC's in sync.

[@rdolle990]

@@TriAmpMyFi Yes, one of my concerns, another device processing your signal will mean additional lag which is annoying with watching video\movies.

[@sean_heisler]

Picked one of these and and it made a profound improvement to my system! Holy crap. Using it between an iFi Zen Stream and a Pontus II with I2S connection. Simple 6” hdmi cable. Simply can’t believe the added spatial aspects with bigger overall, wider, deeper, taller soundstage. Blacker background, tighter imaging. Definitely increased resolution. The treble range is cleaned up, less edge and glare. Freaking amazing. Also, this thing breaks in! Gets better after a day and even better after two days of playing. BTW, for the Pontus II I had to switch the I2S configuration on the bottom of the PO100 to "Mode 1" to work right with the Pontus.

[@mdiaz0429]

Finally got this thing to work in my system. Stupid me had not changed the output setting on the Wiim app to USB. This little device is amazing and highly recommended. The change in sound it does to the Ultra is not huge but definitely significant!

[@carloslong839]

Hey Homie! This device has potentially incredible capabilities but I'd be damned to figure those out. YOU my friend just wired me up that Wiim App has a USB output switch. There is money in a tutorial because for $75 my gear sounds INCREDIBLE 😅

[@mdiaz0429]

@@carloslong839 It is basically doing Digital to Digital Conversion and stabilizing a lot of that digital signal. I have a Denafrips Hermes and it basically does the same thing as the SMSL PO100 but costs a lot more money.

[@PauloFerreira-hh6zv]

Everything you said is true, I've had an SMSL PO100 for over a year and without a doubt the sound always improves when I connect it to any streamer with a USB output. The biggest impact I felt in improving the sound was with the following connection: ZEN Stream (powered by a 15V Sbooster) -> Audioquest Carbon USB A>C -> SMSL PO100 -> Audioquest Carbon HDMI (I2S) -> Denafrips Pontus II. Introducing the SMSL PO100 into my system, with Audioquest Carbon series cables, took my system to another level. Even if you don't install such expensive cables, with a small investment in the PO100, there is a much greater improvement in sound than the amount spent.

[@sean_heisler]

Good to know, thanks! My connection will be iFi Zen Stream USB > iFi USB Purifier (yep another reclocker) > SMSL PO100 > HDMI I2S > Pontus II.

[@cunawarit]

I'm really confused by this. In asynchronous USB DACs, the DAC uses its own clock rather than relying on the timing from the USB source, helping to reduce jitter for a cleaner audio signal. So, if you connect the streamer to the DAC via USB, the effect should be the same as using this box. The streamer's clock won't be the one used. This setup is typically one of the key benefits of connecting a DAC via USB when asynchronous data transfer is supported. Can you please elaborate? What's exactly going on here?

[@peytonsnead3114]

This is helpful

[@cunawarit]

@peytonsnead3114 you are welcome 😀

[@MaxFeken]

@@cunawarit Hey i asked the same question. That would certainly clear things up. Just get a good DAC with USB input!

[@cunawarit]

@MaxFeken Exactly. Unfortunately, I doubt any explanation will change minds here; part of the comment section seems determined to believe that you need the box. Such is the nature of the more "audiophile" sector of music listeners, I suppose. 🤷‍♂️

[@SaintKimbo]

The theory that is being put out, is, the more reclocking the better, the Guy who originally suggested this addition uses the quote, "it's like rinsing the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher". So, effectively, the signal coming out of the Wiim ultra is reclocked to a degree by the SMSL device, which is then sent to the DAC which then does it's own reclocking on the already improved timing, hence allowing it to reclock even better, I guess. Maybe you can buy 4 of the SMSL devices, hook them up and get 4 x better sound, lol.

[@squittieri]

My experience: the difference is NOT subtle! System: Qubuz>ifi Zen Stream (they state they went overboard designing the USB output)>USB>Denafrips Enyo15th>Unison Research Unico Primo>original Living Voice speakers with JMLabs/Focal Electra SW. As a short/small example, Henri Mancini's Pink Panther theme has some "blaring" horns, especially at the end. Well, they WERE blaring, almost hurting the ear, just a mush of horns shouting at you. With this little box between the ifi Zen Stream and the DAC (Stream>USB>PO 100>toslink>DAC), those horns were all clearly discernible, individually and not at all blaring, bass was clearer and stronger. etc, etc, etc... Very nice and very surprised!! I have a Musical Fidelity USB to toslink and coax asynchronous adapter that does nowhere near what this little gem does. This, in my system, is a clear No Brainer. I could go on, I will not. Just buy one!

[@sean_heisler]

I agree! Sounds fantastic. BUT, the left and right channels are reversed on mine. Ha ha. Have you checked yours? Find a stereo left and right test track. Let me know!

[@sean_heisler]

Update: my DAC is a Pontus II and I needed to switch the I2S protocol switch to mode 1 on the bottom of the PO100 and all is well with channels now. This thing sounds great!

[@hrosemd]

For a number of years now, work has been proceeding in order to bring perfection to the crudely conceived idea of a transmission that would not only supply inverse reactive current for use in unilateral phase detractors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronizing cardinal grammeters. Such an instrument is the turbo encabulator.

[@gamecock2465]

I have both the PO100 Pro and PO100 AK (DAC) for use in my car audio system so I can run an optical cable into my DSP. It’s a great compact device and probably not its typical use scenario but works for my purposes. Ultimately the 100 Pro will probably be the one that stays in the car. But the PO 100 AK is a great alternative for those who want to use one of these with the Wiim and an external DAC since it has a built in AKM chip which will allow the user to maintain a small footprint and it’s only $90.

[@markbradbury5266]

Interesting.....What is your source for your car audio setup ? smartphone or portable DAP ?

[@gamecock2465]

@ iPhone via the camera usb adapter. There’s a YT channel by Car Audio Horizons using this setup in car audio and he goes over it really well.

[@markbradbury5266]

@@gamecock2465 Thanks...i'm currently looking at Audison and JL VX series amps which have optical input... so this might be a good option to investigate. Cheers for the info

[@gamecock2465]

@@markbradbury5266 if you run into the need for a custom length optical cable Blue jeans cable can make whatever length you need.

[@SorinNicu]

It's similar with the iFi SPDIF iPurifier (at $199). It's essential for R2R external DACs. DACs based on something like ESS DAC chip have integrated hardware to deal with jitter.

[@ScottoGrotto]

+1,on ifi spdif iPurifier 2 with iFi iPower X, glass toslink cable, with wiim pro, to Metrum Octave, major difference in a moderate audiophile system. Wonder how good this smsl is in comparison?

[@b.k.7364]

Got a deal on the ifi device for $150. Have one between my wiim pro and my J2S DAC. I could instantly tell the difference, was well worth the money.

[@ScottoGrotto]

@@b.k.7364 Upgrading the power supply for this iFi iPurifier 2 helps as well if you have a revealing system :) Cool you got a good deal!

[@4everidle]

Thanks for that tip, Randy. I purchased the PO100 (I don't need I2S), and it has made a significant improvement to the USB output of my desktop computer. More than worth the £38 it costs in Blighty. I'm wondering how much better the PO100 could perform if I feed it a clean 5-volts via a modified USB cable? I will report back if I get a worthwhile result.

[@FaithBrook-k2h]

Please do as I too have invested in this cheaper yet hopefully not lesser device, as I too do not require the so called PRO product double priced unavailable model

[@photo_n_art]

For anyone unfamiliar with jitter and how it is NOT something you should stress about, do younself favor and watch Julian Krause video on the topic. Intelligent and easy to follow explanation. I applaud the young generation for being independent thinkers. And for those interested he also have link to original video explaining more in depth the topic of digital audio and all the misconceptions.

[@Kidii]

@@photo_n_art Hi, I’ll search for his videos. Are you saying that jitter caused by poor clocking is at the end not really a problem and therefore the mentioned device would not be that necessary? I’m new to this. Thank you

[@photo_n_art]

@@Kidii Yes, please watch the video. Most modern DACs are more than "good enough" as far as jitter goes. Some have it better under control than others but any difference is strictly empirical and is below audible level for human hearing. My point is: if you have $70 that is burning hole in your pocket and you want to spend it on something, by all means go ahead and make yourself feel better. But if you are tight on money and you feel like you have to buy it because otherwise your music will sound really bad, no it won't and it is something you can live without.

[@jlyutiup]

After watching this video, I tried connecting my Wiim Ultra to my Musical Fidelity v192 then to my Gungnir dac. Originally I connected the wiim ultra using optical cabel. I find the sound is more refined and more resolving with the v192 in btwn the wiim and the dac. It is quite a significant improvement to my ears.

[@jungtarcph]

You should ask Geschlli Labs about this topic

[@Jedi71]

Sometimes it seems Randy's last name is Geschilli. 😎

[@weirdjimmy413]

The problem is that using the USB out disables the subwoofer output

[@weirdjimmy413]

.. and the bass management feature is too important to me

[@weirdjimmy413]

And yes, I tried it myself 2 days ago

[@justbrowsing5279]

Deal breaker.

[@middleearthltd]

Homer Simpson D’oh

[@peterchang4851]

Yap subwoofer output is more important to me

[@tomprice2407]

Thanks!

[@theonlyegg]

How did we all survive up until a year ago without “reclocking”? I understand it from a recording standpoint. Can’t imagine for the life of me why you’d worry about it just for playback. That’s why we use them in the studio.

[@zondervon]

Maybe it's the chip 🤷🏻

[@samuellord8576]

If the DAC doesn't govern the incoming data stream, limited register sizes mean that the clock gets governed by a PLL instead of the generating clock alone, and accuracy suffers. To prevent this one must send out wordclock signal from the DAC to the digital sources. USB Audio 2 does this inherently, but it has isolation problems that need to be addressed for clean voltages (good eye patterns). See Schiit's Unison USB implementation as an example. Another way to address the issue is to feed the DAC with an external I2S signal. This can work well but is more costly to implement.

[@peytonsnead3114]

My question, if you're using Unison USB, what does this add?

[@samuellord8576]

@@peytonsnead3114 Arggh, I wrote a long reply and then when I looked you up, KZbin swallowed my note!! Anyway, even asynchronus DAC inputs can still sound worse than really good adaptive inputs (where the sending device obeys only its own clock). And USB was not designed as a low-noise connection, so a lot of treatment is necessary. Keeping noise out of a signal, i.e. keeping it below the THD+N of a high-quality DAC is fiendishly difficult.

[@peytonsnead3114]

@samuellord8576 i hate it when that happens

[@michaelwright1602]

Got one of each, the SMSL and the Douk, they work!

[@Madmart54]

So presumably the Geshelli is not able to sort this going digitally from the WiiM to its digital input?

[@DEFKNIGHT]

Not if the Geshelli doesn't have something to correct the clock before it hits the DAC in its own chain.

[@dwdrum11]

I bought one of these to use in the car. I have a magical sound system in the car and my amp that has optical input. This thing is perfect as I can go usb c from iPhone into the smsl then out to my amp via optical.

[@robertpollak6572]

I used an Audio Alchemy dac and clocking device in the 1990s. Even then, the clocking device helped improve the sound.

[@Simon_Hawkshaw]

My mystery box on the way. I hope I hear a difference. Thanks for this info and advice. Take care, Sir.

[@tkdmaste12]

I use it with my smsl a0200. Works great!

[@danimacPuerto]

INCREIBLE, sin palabras, funciona tal cual comentas. Pero la prueba definitiva fue con unas cajas tres vias que tengo y deje de usarlas porque no se ajustaban a la sala.Desde hace unos meses tengo una sala para mi, pero es pequeña y las cajas se solapaban y sonaban como si estuvieran configuradas en mono. Las conecte tras añadir el Douk Audio (amazon no tenia existencias del SMSL) y sonaron increíble y volvió el estéreo a la sala. Gracias por poner el audio en Español.

[@craigbruceuk]

Ok, your channel was a major influence in my recent purchase of an Advance Paris A10 Classic *and* the Wiim Ultra... Now I need to decide whether to try this as an add-on in that mix. However I suppose buying through Amazon means if I don't notice any difference I can just return it 😊

[@yarrumc]

I got mine today and it cleared up some pops i was getting between mac mini and zd3.

[@theheathster2]

I took a chance based on this review, guessing that the USB out wasn’t the cleanest from my Raspberry Pi. Anyway, using the I2S into my DAC, I’m going to have to say, things have improved. I don’t have enough money invested in it for it be completely placebo effect. If it didn’t do anything, it could always go back to Amazon anyway. Thanks for the tip!

[@krisrudecki9477]

GoldenSound has some good videos on how streamers / dacs / clocks work. Theres a good explanation in Zen Stream "review" he did. TLDR usb out into a good external DAC is as good as it gets in terms of transport quality. Period. No other gizmos required.

[@tubefreeeasy]

I like how my iFi Purifier3 worked for me. I’m glad SMSL created this clocker I may have highly considered purchasing before I bought mine. I do like the slick look of the iFi though.

[@sean_heisler]

I agree, I have been using an iFi Purifier USB as well for some time. Made a definite improvement. That said, I ordered one of these SMSL units as well to see if it makes an additional improvement and will allow me to use I2S with my Pontus II.

[@tubefreeeasy]

@ I’m very happy where I’m at. Awesome, if it’s better, can you please tell me below? Got to at least, give it a month, though. My last upgrade was from attaching $25 real carbon fiber outlet faceplate. You may hear thousands of miles of dirty copper cables clean up. Hint: eB

[@m4nc1n1]

I have this. Nice little unit for the money. I come out of my PC into this USB and then into my Topping DX9 via IIS. I will have to try it on my Ultra!

[@eaches]

When they get sub out functional when using USB, I'll give this a shot. For now still going with coax to my DAC. Hopefully I'll be able to try this eventually.

[@trudimcleod5042]

I always thought that most dacs had a clock generator or reclocker. I wonder if this is an exclusive problem of the Ultra or is the same problem happening with the AKM-based streamers. Another problem is that the information about the streaming rates is lost upon conversion from USB to spdif.

[@gracenotes5379]

IMO, the best DDC is likely to be the one already built into your (asynchronous USB-enabled) DAC. Only if your DAC lacks a USB input (or lacks proper galvanic isolation on its USB input) would I expect the SMSL PO100 to prove beneficial vs. a simple USB cable between streamer and DAC.

[@nevilleprice2132]

Isn't the better answer to use the USB out from the Ultra into the USB in on your DAC which will probably have a better clock and if it's a decent DAC, chances are it'd also probably be a better clock than a £65 ChiFi product? Would also negate an additional piece of hardware and wire.

[@TriAmpMyFi]

Correct. USB to USB. USB audio carries no clock signal in any of it's cables.

[@michaellutz5883]

Thank you again for the video Randy. Hmmm what about connecting the usb out on the WiiM directly into the Geshelli Labs DAC (given you ordered the USB input board). You save one component and the heartbeat should be triggered on the DAC side...?

[@TheEdw555]

Great solution at a low cost!! You are really the cheapaudioman !

[@jjoohhhnn]

When they say left in stock, they're talking about the shipping facility in your county, not a national shortage. And often times, if that facility runs out the next closest one has more in stock. Don't fall for their psychological shenanigans.

[@helidrones]

You can use an old Sony mini disc recorder as a DAC / ADC. It sounds incredibly well and it is free, if you already own one of those that would otherwise collect dust.

[@chrismaki8396]

As a guy who loves music, I have to admit that all of this “mumbo jumbo” has me so confused, fed up, and angry that I have just stuck with my Node N130 attached to my NAD c328 and in my other avr system I have stuck with my Marantz nr1510’s HEOS and internet radio functions as well as a AppleTV 4K box. I think, correctly or incorrectly, that this set up is good enough. TBH, both systems sound great to me. I still enjoy watching your posts but most of it just goes in one ear and out the other.

[@richmoore5080]

I see there is the Smsl PS100 USB C DAC as well as the Smsl PS100 pro. Will they both work in your little WIIM hack? You used the pro version, but it seems that the other model has the needed inputs.. I can't find the pro version in stock here (Thailand), but I can find the other model.

[@FaithBrook-k2h]

YES I too believe that this so

[@MKVally]

I use the smsl PO 100 pro in my car audio with optical out to my dsp world of a difference from the head unit with analogue output.

[@bengchiatseah3908]

Bought the cheaper PO100… and playing Apple Music with iPad… it is so much better than with Airplay 2… Thank you for a wonderful recommendation.

[@donholmstrom8309]

Will the same effect work with another SMSL product like the SU-1?

[@FeedScrn]

Randy.... That's all cool and stuff... What is the one-box-fits-all alternative streamer that does the same thing?

[@ullodea]

I had a similar experience with a Bluesound Node into a Douk Audio U2 Pro. So worth it, but you need a resolving system to hear it - those who can't hear it need to invest in their gear and stop misleading ppl with their doubt.

[@xb8slim]

ive had 2 of these, first one sent a loud noise (digital sounding squeal) returned it. they convinced me to try again... better but had a low low volume digital noise, sounded like a processor generating noise. i got docked point at a sq compitition for it. ened up switching back to topping d10 and all if perfect again.

[@sean_heisler]

I just got one. The left and right channels are reversed. Ha ha. Have you tested yours by chance?

[@sean_heisler]

Update: my DAC is a Pontus II and I needed to switch the I2S protocol switch to mode 1 on the bottom of the PO100 and all is well with channels now. This thing sounds great!

[@carloslong839]

Hey Randy. Love your channel and want to chime in so I can fully understand this SMSL PO100 Pro argument. Okay I received my POPRO yesterday and tried to hook it up. I have the requisite gear, Wiim Ultra, Geshelli J2S, IotaVX SA3 I'm good there. Listened for a day and whoa? This doesn't sound better. Unhooked everything and LO AND BEHOLD a goof like me used a USB C to C cable...guess what it's USB A to C. For those who believe this device is fools gold...Today my gear came to life. I now know what soundstage, imaging, dark background, transients...I now can comprehend all the jargon. Was planning to upgrade to Geshelli J3S with Sparkos 2590 but I'm good right now. Those Hifiman Ananda Nano are back in play.

[@greghughart6132]

So, i got this on your recommendation, and it delivers! Thanks, Randy!

[@jukingeo]

@Randy. At first I was skeptical about this and prior to this video, It was one of those "smoke blowing up the a$$" things. So given that you proved this works, I am thinking about trying it. As it is I am considering getting the Wiim Ultra, mainly to use as a pre-amp. I do have a couple questions. You mentioned that the subwoofer output doesn't work? Sooo what does it do? Does it just stop outputting the sound? Given that this unit takes USB out and converts it to Coax and Toslink, I am wondering if this would be a good alternative to a digital output for a computer. I was considering getting the Geshelli J2 4499 for a DAC. I know the USB input is optional on that, but if the SMSL PO100 has those digital outs, then you probably don't need the USB input for the J2. Thanks for the review on this little module and your input on it. For $60, it certainly worth a try. As for those manufacturers that think they can get several thousand dollars for a reclocking unit? Well, you probably know what I would say to that, "Stick it where the sun don't shine!"

[@audiofool4u]

I agree with another contributor that actually seeing you make the connections would help clarify the whole process.

[@MichaelEntner]

Ok folks - I’ve seen a lot of comments debating this “hack.” All I can say is that I’m running the SMSL device to go from USB on WiiM streamer into I2S on my SMSL D400EX dual AKM DAC and it is staggeringly good (and the DAC was pretty amazing to begin with). The sound is rich and has incredible depth. Sound stage is absolutely wider. I actually bought this before reading about the hack, so I’m not sure what voodoo it does for SPDIF or coax out since I don’t use that. Yes it does knock out the sub but I switch to standard coax/SPDIF output if I need that - just a button press!

[@imrich_kiss]

The best part of this video is: "I don't really know much about clocking... But I did watch a cool video...". In other words. I do not know much, but I am doing a video about it and I am talking 5-10 minutes about it. Good joke. What do You think? Why better DACs have isolation, buffer and reclock on their inputs? It is the simillar but better job, what this "magic box" does. You don't have to reclock something what is buffered and reclocked by the DAC itself. It is nonsense. If the DAC does isolation, buffering and reckclocking, transfer to DAC doesn't matter. Yes the connection has to be stable without pops, dropouts and has to have a basic quality. The digital signal is corrected by the DAC and all the jitter is just from the DAC's internal clock. You can think about it as this "magic box" but in much higher quality and it is part of the DAC. It is the same process as factory produces something. The order of the components (signal, 0 or 1) came to store (buffer) is irrelevant. When all components arive (buffered), factory starts the completition process (reclocking). The quality of the product (sound) depends just on a quality of the factory (DAC) and non of the suppliers (source) quality.

[@cunawarit]

Bravo! This should have more upvotes.

[@taleslobosco2631]

It sounds better than the optical out an the Wiim Ultra connected to an external DAC?

[@cunawarit]

@taleslobosco2631 If the WiiM Ultra has jitter problems, it could well do. But if your DAC has USB in, just use that, and you avoided buying this $60 device. This is because when connected via USB, the DAC will use its own clock, just like this box. Essentially, this is not needed for most people.

[@blueriverlore]

I think I'm missing the point. I bought the WiiM Ultra as an all-in-one streamer so I don't have to buy all these separate 'black boxes'. I have the line out to my 1977 Pioneer Spec 1 pre amp, I have the bass out to a Klipsch sub woofer and I use the USB to attach a USB SSD that holds many large hi-res audio files.

[@FaithBrook-k2h]

Aye like I too do, however what has been suggested is still well worth trying as it really works

[@Mariano-p5z]

You can use your phone and this SMSL PO100 with an app as a streamer. I bought a SMSL PO100 at Amazon ($42 at that time) and installed the USB AUDIO PLAYER app ($15) on my Android phone. This app bypasses the phone internal DAC and streams your digital signal through the USB port (in my case from TIDAL). From here I connect the optical cable to my DAC. It sounds great.

[@Sparklepony]

This is everything Cheap Audio is all about. I love this.

[@ManFromLaBamba]

No, this video represents the worst tendencies of this channel to fall prey to audiophile foolery. $70 is not much but it could still be a waste of money

[@cheapaudioman]

@@ManFromLaBamba yes. My great conspiracy to make a 3% commission off of a $70 item. If you think it’s Tom foolery buy one and try it yourself and then make a video about it. Email me when you do and I’ll link people to it

[@morgande]

@@ManFromLaBamba the AOL keyword here is “could”. How can you make the assumption it “could”when in fact you clearly haven’t tried this or even the concept behind it (skipping the WiiM internal clock)

[@cunawarit]

No. Don't get this, it will make no difference whatsoever. Just connect the streamer to an external DAC via USB, and the DAC's clock will take take of the timing. This is for consoles. This product is not needed in a hifi setup at all.

[@morgande]

@ assuming external DAC has usb input

[@cesarjlisboa7586]

I totally agree , it will improves more than expected .

[@jackbowescinema8002]

Have you happened to mess with the dac filter setting on the wiim ultra? I recently got one and that really helped fix the in your face almost harsh sound I was getting from it. I changed mine to apodizing fast roll-off.

[@brightshadowdenmark]

Are you using Coax output to DAC? why only WIIM Ultra? not mentioning PC or other sources with USB output?

[@erichill5328]

Does adding the SMSL PO100 improve sound quality coming from the TV if it’s being feed through the Wiim Utlra and SMSL PO100? Fiber optic from TV into the Wiim. USB out to the SMSL PO100 to SMSL SU-1 DAC.

[@4everidle]

After lengthy listening sessions of SMSL PO100 vs. Douk Audio U2 Pro, I can report the U2 Pro wins hands down. But only when powered with a very good quality 5volt power supply. If you don't want to spend extra on a PSU, preferably linear, the SMSL is still a worthwhile upgrade.

[@redwards41]

Just added po100 to wiim ultra to the geshelli j3 thru marantz cinema 50 sounds fantastic and sparkos 2590 chip and roon nucleus one

[@kraftman4234]

I have the WiiM Pro Ultra and I'm looking at this product and the SMSL SU1. I'm currently using powered Edifier 1700 speakers connected directly to the WiiM. If I understand correctly, I'd plug the WiiM Ultra into this via USB C, then Optical output from this to the SU 1, correct? Is this a worthwhile upgrade to my current setup or will I need an amp and passive speakers to really hear the difference? I'm a huge fan and thoroughly enjoy your videos. Thanks.

[@MarkSayers-y9v]

I use the same system and for my money and I have used £10'000 vinyl set up in the past this is the best sound I have ever achieved and I pay nothing for my music !

[@rdolle990]

If you really want a big sound improvement, save up for a (used) set of S2000MKIII.

[@1donjuego]

I still fail to understand "jitter" and "clocking" in the digital stream, pre-dac. I assume a dac has a small buffer, and doesn't start out-puting until the buffer is full. Thus, qed, the timing of digital packets going into the buffer would not impact the analog signal coming out of the dac. I assume I'm wrong, because so much is made by so many about this clock and jitter thing. But I don't know how or why I'm wrong.

[@OldGuyHifi]

That is partly correct. Think of it this way. If you listen to AM radio the source is probably digital, i. e., a CD. But you don't get CD resolution because the delivery stream is noisey. Networks are the same. Full of noise and timing issues. This gizmo helps to correct a lot of that so the clock in the DAC isn't working so hard. I will do a video on this soon.

[@1donjuego]

​@@OldGuyHifi I look forward to your video.

[@OldGuyHifi]

@@1donjuego Thank you.

[@johnstump2433]

⁠@@OldGuyHifi I am concerned now.. I need to email Geno and Sherri to check if there is a warranty for overworked DACs.

[@OldGuyHifi]

​@@johnstump2433 Maybe we need to develop a Geritol product for DAC. "Does your DAC have a Data poor stream? Try "Digitol." "When you have your data, you have everything." I am not sure anybody will remember those commercials.

[@wesleyh2638]

They have a non pro version without HDMI(I2S). Update 2024 version with the xu316. Approx $38. Saw some bad reviews from 2 years ago when it was labeled DSD. Hoping the updated version is like the pro just without the I2S

[@JohnKelly2]

So wouldn't this then render the Wiim Ultra kind of pointless? You're bypassing the internal DAC and all of the outputs. Wouldn't you be able to get the same effect with the Wiim Mini? You'd need to add a S/PDIF to USB C adapter, then connect to the SMSL, then to your DAC, but you're only spending $190 instead of $449

[@A_Handle_2_Continue]

I did the cheap road with the Mini. It sounds like a reasonable plan to me.

[@dinglebarrybonds]

wiim mini is such a cool little device for the price. i have one, not currently use it but i know i will find a use one day lol Also love my wiim amp with the wharfdale linton heritage. i noticed randy cheap audio man still has his pair out, great speakers. love them

[@KarelSmout]

So the wiim has a dac. You skip it. The SMSL does dad (digital to digital). Then you send it to an external dac. Then you send it to a preamp. And it is only then that you send it to a power amp. So 3 extra components to buy, to take up energy and space. 3 to connect with 3 different cables. All the time Wiim had dac and preamp in it. If all that extra gear is worth the hassle, the Wiim was pretty lousy as a dac and a preamp. And it begs the question: how much would an integrated be that includes a reasonable dac (clock) and amp?

[@cheapaudioman]

great points. I just thought it would be a cool video to make considering it's $60 and a lot of folks watching already have external dacs or dads in their integrated amps. For $60 people can buy it from amazon and if they don't like it return it. I like little things like this that can improve the sound but it's not for everyone. Appreciate you watching

[@MaybeTiberius]

yeah i am on the same boat. i keep hearing people that: wiim pro plus or wiim ultra is the best value... but in order to make it nice, you need to spend like 150 more on other components because the internal things of the wiim are not great and you only want the streaming part. and now its a 350-500$ streamer and you can barely call it ''budget'' in return... why not just get a wiim mini for 80$ and then hook it to a minidsp instead. it gives you a dac thats more than enough and you get incredible control via REW measuring your room, dsp and multiple outputs and all that stuff for less than this wiim ultra setup costs. i m just really not seeing the ''value'' here, people talking about tbh

[@zainhassan816]

@@MaybeTiberiusI’ve been using the exact combo, Wiim mini + minidsp 2x4HD If it wasn’t for the reliability I won’t be looking elsewhere. But two months into use and the Wiim mini’s s/pdif stopped working. And the minidsp needs a power on/off almost every day as it stops playing music randomly. Replug the usb alone doesn’t fix it. And these are known issues when I searched online. Well, back to square one and the search continues. 😅

[@10Filip]

​@Maybeiberius The value is that you dobt have to mess with rew etc, usability

[@alekhidell3644]

Already sold out at Amazon. The power of Randy!

[@guestgoogle4979]

Affiliate link FTW!

[@copperheadviper7904]

Not on AliExpress.. yet !

[@brightshadowdenmark]

You call it the SMSL PO100 but what you got is the SMSL PO100 "PRO" and the SMSL PO100 "none pro" is almost half the price but it only has Coax and optical (no HDMI) my question is: will the "none pro" SMSL PO100 (at 48$) help in my setup? Home-theater-PC -> USB -> SMSL -> Pioneer VSX-421 -> DALI Zensor 3 (+ 10" ARGON subwoofer) 2. setup: Gaming PC -> optical -> SMSL PS100 -> DENON RCD-M38 -> DALI 202 (i guess this "chain" don't need re-clocking?)

[@edenmolinar2086]

I wish I had clicked the bell icon earlier because the SMSL PO100 is sold out. I'm getting the WiiM Ultra now before it is all sold out.

[@liamporter1137]

Interesting. Do we need this for Eversolo? 😅. Great sharing.

[@spencehayashi2772]

hi Randy, very interesting video. question for you, would this work on the Wiim amp or is it strictly for the Ultra?

[@CinnabonMcTasty]

Randy your random video intros never get old lol

[@Leo-tf7gu]

Once you start using the USB output on any streamer, I don't think you can take advantage of room correction + EQ right?

[@barryamorris]

Why not use the SMSL PO100 from the USB digital out, then feed it straight back into the digital input via whatever method, in order to take advantage of the internal ESS DAC chips

[@bmgreet1755]

My wondering too. Prob not possible to select usb output and then output to preamp or whatever thru rca etc. Your way requires selecting 2 outputs??? What do you think.

[@danielwalsh8168]

Randy, thanks for sharing your experience and enthusiasm; your suggestion is a can't-lose proposition, given how easy it is to return stuff to Amazon. Question: I have a Wiim Pro Plus which has no usb output. Would using a RCA (output from the Wiim) to usb c cable (to the PO100) work?

[@thewaygokid3135]

This may have answered a question I have. Do all streamers pretty much sound the same if you bypass the internal DAC/PRE and stream directly to quality external DAC and preamp separates. I was looking at the Wiim for this because of price with e-arc.

[@HowardOlsen]

Thanks for this and your other vids! Please let me ask you a question. The reason you need or at least use this PO100 is because your Geshelli DAC does not have USB input, is that correct? I've got a spare Topping D50s with USB input and an XMOS chip, which makes the PO100 redundant. Do I unstand this correctly? Thanks

[@Lou.B]

Lordy the home equipment industry has made a hash of music enjoyment. Seems more difficult and complicated than eating a plate of bucatini in sauce, and by the time you're done wrestling with it, it's an open question whether it even sounds better than the classic stuff from a generation ago.

[@FaithBrook-k2h]

Oooo oh when/once one gets it right it becomes oh so worth the work

[@MegaAle76]

Hi there can you please show how this device smsl po100 is connected in line on the setup how it’s connected?