60 Minutes Archive: Morley Safer's 1974 report on the Concorde

[@Commentator541]

An actual report backed up by arguments and amazing footage, featuring industry experts. Loved it!

[@marcusdamberger]

I once spoke to an American fighter pilot based in the UK. He once spotted the Concorde off the coast and flew along side, he said it just keep going faster and faster. After about five minutes he had to give up and let it speed away. He was impressed with it's rate of speed increase and unrelenting endurance. He didn't have the fuel to keep up anymore.

[@A22DNAL]

This is an awesome pull from the archives!!! Thank You 60 Minutes!

[@_HMCB_]

Despite everything, it’s wonderful it got built. Man should at times build to push boundaries. Despite the economics. What a beautiful plane.

[@jonathanwatanabe8246]

This was shot on film..... wow, this archival footage is the closest thing to time travel that we have.

[@S_M_360]

It’s so strange to see clip that’s a few weeks older than I am without any opinion or spin in it. It’s nice to see THE story, not A story, big difference

[@FlakeSE]

Well... It is the story as understood at the time presented as some matter of fact. Blaming zealous environmentalists for supersonic flight being banned over land is just hogwash. In Operation Bongo II the FAA realized that the general public would never accept sonic boom levels of noise pollution on a daily basis, so those flights were limited to travel over the oceans.

[@S_M_360]

@@FlakeSE I get all that. What I meant was, in today's news, they tell the story they want to, to drive a narrative as objectivity is no longer taught in Journo School. This clip from 74 is "THE STORY" without a narrative, not "A STORY" CBS concocts for the viewer. Big difference. My comment wasn't about the plane, its about the Sunday press on TV in 74. I appreciate your reminder on the backstory. I get it and learned something, too!

[@FlakeSE]

​@@S_M_360 60 minutes still delivers great stories to this day. Best stay away from the 24/7 stations that treat news as entertainment.

[@S_M_360]

@@FlakeSE CBS is a backwater for truth these days because of the omissions on their stories. If a story has 6 key facts/truths to it, they'll only include 3, not all 6, and only the points that help the narrative they need to keep viewers. This is 2021, after-all. ;)

[@mickyday2008]

Absolutely awesome bit of kit that I was lucky enough to fly on

[@TheBrowncoat2112]

Only all these years later do we see that the Soviet claim to have 200 TU-144s in production was pure propaganda.

[@dougbennett8592]

And the Tu-144 turned out to be a deathtrap.

[@johniii8147]

Yeah that was funny.

[@_HMCB_]

They built 2-3 maybe-if memory serves me right. Also karma. That bold stealing of engineering plans. They got their payback.

[@marcusdamberger]

You couldn't hold a conversation in the Tu-144 it was so loud inside the cabin that the flight attendants had to pass paper and pen to ask what you wanted. The noise was party attributed to lesser insulation but also to a way louder air conditioning system that had to keep the interior comfortable. Concorde also needed A/C, but managed to do it much quieter inside.

[@jvarela965]

TU-144 was a bad airplane. Tupolev was embarassed by it. Ironic after all the bugs worked out of Concorde and Concordski the Oil Shock killed both planes.

[@misterwhipple2870]

Fifty years ago today!!! I miss the old journalism. It no longer exists.

[@AllIsWellaus]

I was in Elephant and Castle in London when one glided overhead, almost like in slow motion. Even then while I was watching the underbelly of this amazing airline, it felt like you were watching a piece of history.

[@markybear92840]

And here were are, 18 years since Concorde was grounded and no other SST commercial aircraft. Quite the time capsule on how aviation has become.

[@Sacto1654]

Well, the development of lie-flat seats in premium class seating to make sleeping on long flights tolerable, cheaper fractional ownership of private planes and the more recent development of cheap videoconferencing over the Internet has blunted the need for faster physical travel around the world.

[@kurtpena5462]

Huh? This was a horrible economic disaster, and more fools are lining up to repeat the mistake today. Not even the very rich wanted a $10,000 plane ticket! It's still a dumb idea.

[@Hobinator17]

Boom Overture SST in development. Its happening

[@kurtpena5462]

@@Hobinator17 More of the same expense, noise, and range issues are happening. But don't let me stop you from investing. XD

[@bertroost1675]

@@Sacto1654 In my 18 years of flying I have been bumped up to the lie-flat premium class section 3 times. Very nice.

[@ocker2000]

Flying on Concorde was always on my bucketlist. Unfortunately it was taken out of service when I was about ready to book my ticket. Now I have to see it in a museum....Maybe I will get to fly on the next generation in my old age...

[@donkeyboy585]

“We’ll all be flying supersonic sooner or later” Apparently later

[@beaumershon3066]

I chuckled at that.

[@jeshkam]

Either way he was correct though.

[@PeterMayer]

Morley Safer was great.

[@internationaltax7708]

I flew the Concorde in the late 70s. The flight was delayed 8 hours due to mechanical problems. Concorde had multiple problems: They were unreliable, and a new one was often brought in, resulting in huge delays. The seats were very cramped. The noise level was so high you communicated by putting your mouth to the other person's ear and shouting. You couldn't listen to music (and there was no movie because you couldn't hear one). The vibration level was very, very high for the first hour+, resulting on no drink service until after the first 1/3 of flight, and high throughout the flight. You couldn't put your drink down, because it would fall off whatever you put it on. And for that, I paid 50% above first class. Never again.

[@PoliticalWeekly]

I usually never say this, as I'm sure you've contributed millions of dollars to the world economy through your productivity, but Okay Boomer.

[@jhollie8196]

Hum. That’s not what I saw. Mr. Safers drinks stayed on his try and he was not yelling to talk to the camera. I’m sure it was a maintenance nightmare

[@1vw4me]

@@jhollie8196 that's because it was on the ground, derp!

[@Kiyoone]

Yep. Pretty much the true... Nowadays kids don't understand that it is not always good to be faster... the relation between cost effectiveness and all of that... they just want "cool things" without the hard work

[@Kiyoone]

Besides... the real rich people have their own planes and don't wait in lines to board on it...

[@lindaterrell5535]

I saw a Concorde at Logan years ago. It was between to commercial planes and was barely half their size. I never realized how small it was.

[@peterlejon2168]

I had the same reaction when I saw it on the tarmac at Zaventem / Brussels airport

[@petertullemans]

Saw one in Cairns when I was young... breath taking presence

[@jamielancaster01]

$2.5 Billion in todays (2021) money is $19.8 Billion.

[@zapfan7029]

A work of art.

[@marcusdamberger]

The wing is so beautiful, a delta ogival wing. Even the new proposed supersonic jets like Boom Overture has a similar shape. When you got it right, why change it.

[@Chinookman]

I had not seen this. As an aviation enthusiast it really was a pre crash insight into other factors that were at play for possible cancellation. I knew of the energy issues but that’s usually just a higher ticket price to those who can afford it.

[@Kiyoone]

the real rich have their own planes and don't wait in lines to get onboard ... Airlines are struggling to survive and not go bunkrupt year after year... Did you miss the "white elephant" part?

[@Phrancis5]

Just one of many examples of amazing engineering that pushed technology and design to the limits, but couldn't outrun simple economics. Ironically, the bigger 747 was a success in opening the world to cheaper flights - and then when Airbus finally built an even bigger jet, the economics of hub and spoke air travel changed...

[@Commentator541]

A380 was a solid project, but came too late. Either that, or it was too early but not efficient enough.

[@CarterHancock]

@@Commentator541 I would say it came too late. Airbus had only been founded in 1970 though.

[@Kiyoone]

Damn.... even that in 1974 they said that it is a bad idea to fly just a little bit more fast...

[@kurtpena5462]

Convair learned that lesson the hard way!

[@priztucker]

Almost 50 years later and its still the coolest looking plane ever made

[@emmarose4234]

Morley Safer was so freaking adorable. Every time I hear his voice, I think of listening to my parents watch 60 Minutes in the living room while I played with toys or whatever. Did I mention the Cam Ne incident, although that was way before my time?

[@jacknewman9256]

Such a beautiful machine. Unfortunately, predictions of routine supersonic flight seem to be akin to flying cars.

[@justins8802]

Is it unfortunate though? The basic physics will all but ensure that faster travel takes more energy than slower travel and energy doesn’t show any signs of getting much cheaper in the foreseeable future. The world is fortunate that most air travelers didn’t value speed enough to to pay for all that extra fuel to be burned.

[@lostpony4885]

If we had flying cars several decades.

[@crumdoggy]

A technological marvel but an incredibly impractical idea. Even if you disregard the development costs, the estimates of simple operating cost per passenger per mile of Concorde versus commercial airliners of the day should have doomed Concorde before she got off the ground. It is simply radically inefficient compared to subsonic airlines. Who did they think as going to buy tickets for such an extremely expensive plane other than the super rich crossing the Atlantic? Did they actually think US and European municipalities would want sonic booms over the interior? But for the government subsidies of France and the UK, she would have never have flown. One factor could have been fuel prices-which were far lower in the late 60s then when concorde came on line in the mid-seventies. These higher fuel prices increased Concordes price per mile per passenger significantly.

[@Kiyoone]

and yet... some kids want this again... they do not learn at all

[@lostpony4885]

It was fine and obviously viable, it flew for dacades.

[@cutl00senc]

I grew up fascinated with jets. I saw the concord land and take off during its maiden trip to RDU airport and it was a magical experience as a child. My aunt flew once to England in 3.5 hrs from New York. She said she could see the curvature of the earth and the darkness of space. We need something like concord again…I’m too bored with current aviation technologies!

[@billgatesleavingyamomshous8177]

I live 15 minutes from RDU airport

[@davedave5787]

slow down kiddo

[@paulsuprono7225]

However, will spend the CASH ? It ain't gonna be cheap !,💀 😬

[@Kiyoone]

OMG... this dude didn't get the message of this AT ALL...

[@roddymoore]

RDU? Raleigh? I don't think RDU could have handled the Concorde, but maybe it happened. About the biggest thing RDU could handle in those days were 727s.

[@johngiraldi1150]

Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

[@boris2997]

I remember in the 90s we go out fishing 🎣 you can see the Concord fly over the ocean and hear a huge sonic boom 💥

[@jimdennis2451]

"... and then we just picked up the stunned fish that had floated to the top."

[@herrgolf]

“Iran… which can afford anything!”

[@ZEDU657]

That jumped out at me, too.

[@Oldbmwr100rs]

And boy did we sell them anything they wanted! They're still flying some of the old F4's!

[@misterwhipple2870]

And five measley years later? GAAAAAAAAAK! Don't get me wrong. I LOVED Khomeini! He single-handedly put Ronald Reagan in the White House!

[@flyingphobiahelp]

Back in 1969 for its maiden flight (and for that matter it’s conception in the early 60s), no one could have forecast the fuel crisis ie massive increase (QUADRUPLE) in fuel prices circa 1973. This was the Concorde-killer. Hindsight is 20/20.

[@dmikulec]

Is Morley safer? Would Dan rather?

[@rubbersoul3723]

News reporting from another time-when reporting was stripped down to be all about the story-an element which seems too often lacking now.

[@hamentaschen]

"I'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers."

[@davedave5787]

best decision was scrapping the whole enchilada.

[@cvbabc]

It would have been interesting to have Howard Hughes analyze it and give his opinion on whether it was possible to have been made economically viable enough to become ubiquitous.

[@jeremyroberts4760]

Russia was only slightly exaggerating…just by 185 Concordskis.

[@misterwhipple2870]

How do you know when a Russian is lying? Easy. His lips are moving.

[@williamkelly8026]

His voice is not yet destroyed from decades of cigarette smoking

[@jeremytravis360]

I never got to fly on Concorde, but I did fly business class on a Singapore airlines 747 to Singapore from London.

[@AllIsWellaus]

Was it loud while flying?

[@kaeso101]

Concorde is a plane thats on a league of its own

[@kurtpena5462]

It most certainly was! Hopefully we will heed the costly economic lessons taught by this ungodly folly.

[@laurencejenner1127]

2 observations about this excellent story - 1) how fashionable it was back then to mock the “damn environmentalists” - always holding us back from a glorious future; and 2) how few mega-structures the US has built despite its post-war wealth - no Concorde equivalent, no high speed rail, no large hadron collider. Ok, I’ll give you landing on the moon.

[@SuperKirezi]

I understand that, mainly, the economics of running a commercial airline made this project impossible. But something inside me says that “if the Americans had been able to get their SST/Concorde to fly, this plane will still be in the air today”. All kinds of government subsidies would have been thrown at it and allowed it to stay in the air, until the solution to the sonic boom is found. Just saying 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@civlyzed]

Have you seen the report on "Boom", the startup company that is trying to make a new supersonic passenger plane? Here's the link to the 60 minutes clip if you're interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6TbYXmeoZd-fMU&ab_channel=60Minutes

[@SuperKirezi]

@@civlyzed Yes, I have seen that program. Interesting indeed. The sonic boom problem will be solved, eventually.

[@civlyzed]

@@SuperKirezi I concur and hopefully while I'm still alive and maybe have a chance to take a flight. That would be awesome!

[@videosuperhighway7655]

Now it takes 8 hours. between the TSA Checks, etc..

[@kurtpena5462]

The American HSR should heed the lessons of Concorde. Fast is expensive. Only a national government has the power to lose this much money.

[@DennyJr22]

Supersonic won't work until the costs are significantly reduced. Concorde was double digit multiples the price of an economy ticket for 2x the speed, the price to benefit ratio only made sense for a very limited amount of people who valued their time that much and could also afford the ticket. I think if the cost is reduced to 2-3x the price of an economy ticket to where the time saved is more or less a no brainer compared to the increased cost it can work. Now how that happens, I have no idea I'm not an aviation engineer.

[@christianlibertarian5488]

A big issue with the Concorde was that you only gained 3 hours on a transatlantic flight. Yet the ticket was multiples of an ordinary first class seat, and you got jet-lagged anyway. How many people have such valuable time that they will pay $9000 (that's what I remember the price being) to save 3 hours?

[@marcusdamberger]

@@christianlibertarian5488 You could fly there and back in the same day, and sleep in your own bed that night. Granted, mostly for business corporate types that had meetings in NY and then headed back at the end of the day.

[@christianlibertarian5488]

@@marcusdamberger That, I think, was the theory. But the difficulty of getting to and from the airport at both ends made that impossible, especially with the increased security over the years.

[@lostpony4885]

Weeeell they ended up getting a couple more years out of the old bird after all.

[@daveinstlouis]

...and it ended up sticking around for another 29 years.

[@lostpony4885]

Half the comments seem to forget this and say " See? It was cancelled, never viable like this says"

[@marcusdamberger]

@@lostpony4885 From what I understand British Airways started making a lot of profit in the latter years when they realized most of their clientele didn't even know what the price for a ticket was, because it was all paid for by their company in most cases, i.e. CEO tells his assistant they need to be in NY for some morning meetings and then fly back later that evening and want to take Concorde. They have no clue what it costs, but understand they won't have to sleep in a hotel that night, but rather at home that evening. So British Airways started hiking up the ticket price and no one baulked at it.

[@kurtpena5462]

@@lostpony4885 This project was never in the black. It was cancelled after years of stubbornness and denial. They also couldn't sell tickets. They were flying mostly empty planes in the end. It was an unmitigated failure.

[@NewBluesBros]

I remember my mom watching this in the early 70's. I hated it, being a child and not understanding the adult topics. Then I got older and watched often, enjoying real journalism. Now? I hate it because there is zero hard hitting journalism. No, instead it's smear or fluff pieces. Hosted by faux news reporters that are nothing more than merchants of despair. I would have never believed this could happen in America.

[@roadwarrior144]

I suppose that the Concord program benefitted both nations with regard to acquisition of scientific data, engineering experience, and manufacturing capabilities and techniques, it also provided considerable employment. So maybe it wasn’t all for naught?

[@davidhoffman1278]

200 Tu-144s? The Spviets were certainly prine to idiotic predictions back then. Well Mr. Safer, we might get a 60 seat Mach 1.4 airliner in the year 2034.

[@ThomasGlynnJr]

Remember when even these news "stories" were presented without bias?

[@kurtpena5462]

Bias as in how quiet and vibration-free the flying experience was?

[@starguy2718]

In 1974, $2.5 billion was a *lot* of money. Nowadays, that's just a "rounding error".

[@johnbergstrom2931]

$2.5 billion in 1974 is over $14 billion today. Back in the 90's with the High Speed Research program, they estimated it would cost $40 billion to develop another SST.

[@Kipkemoi]

Customers are more valuable than ideas.

[@johneastman1905]

Leave it to the Soviet Union to boldly lie as others simply speak the truth about a complex subject and facts in evidence …. A cultural tradition .

[@andrewhamilton4781]

More than matched by the US, I'd say

[@jeshkam]

@@andrewhamilton4781 No really. Not at all actually.

[@andrewhamilton4781]

@@jeshkam Is that what you were taught in school?

[@jeshkam]

@@andrewhamilton4781 Pretty much yes. I was taught for instance, that Stalin was/is the worst mass murderer in history. I can't think of any US President with at least 0,00001% of his body count. Let's not mention that he enjoyed killing his own folks. More questions?

[@andrewhamilton4781]

@@jeshkam So you were also taught to totally discount the US history in SE Asia, South America and the Middle East. Pretty significant body count in those regions (all for "Freedum" and "democracy")

[@lindaterrell5535]

Wasn’t a ticket around $5000?

[@lostpony4885]

I dont think so.

[@lindaterrell5535]

@@lostpony4885 It was $7995 New York to London, according to Wikipedia.

[@kurtpena5462]

About double that.

[@PeterMayer]

I can't wait for the next ssts.

[@kurtpena5462]

Should one make it to market, it is doubtful you could ever afford the ticket. None of the current ventures seem to have learned from this tale.

[@mramachandran9830]

Wow Morley really hated environmentalists! 😂

[@misterwhipple2870]

I hated them too! Damned Hippie tree-huggers!

[@PeterMayer]

Very cool!!!

[@peterbradshaw8018]

It should have been a much smaller private jet with long range with military applications.

[@maricedixion3357]

I remember the super Concord when my dad used to take me to the airport I use to watch it take off back in the 70s and 80s when I use to go to the airport in Miami the airport is different than is now it's nothing like it was back then

[@chriswright8464]

Remember Sir Freddie Laker.

[@MrGuzmanra]

Economics rules the world. Even going to the moon was a money loser in some ways.

[@AllIsWellaus]

It wasn't about economics though, it was about the nations pride. It was about betting Russia's own space programme and showing America as a world leader. Nowadays America is mainly well known for its ability to throw its weight about through the military.

[@marcusdamberger]

There was a lot of benefit from miniaturization of more advanced electronics and solid state electronics that they used in the command modules and rockets. It really pushed the boundaries and they managed to meet the deadlines. So the taxpayer in the end did get a lot out of that program. All those highways you drive on to the airport (subsidized) are all subsidized by the government . Especially smaller airports with essential air service that the government helps pay for. Some choices for society are not entirely considered with economics involved. But there is usually some kind of benefit even if it doesn't make any money.

[@kurtpena5462]

@@AllIsWellaus The Cold War is what bankrupted Soviet communism, not the Space Race. As for that, America totally lost interest in Apollo very quickly. Space Shuttle was quite a boondoggle as well.

[@dpt4402]

I recall a 707 tow bar would fit them though be it upside down

[@iLoveBoysandBerries]

I can't wait to fly the Concorde

[@azzamkhalil26]

Sonic boom soon is coming out

[@Kiyoone]

lol

[@kurtpena5462]

Thank God we had the sense to dodge this bullet. The Space Race (America was bored with Apollo after two years) was costly enough. There's no prestige or honor in losing billions on a project because of its technical feasibility.

[@pushslice]

how many of those 200 TU-144s ended up flying and carrying paying pax?

[@GH-oi2jf]

Only 16 were built, and one partially. The first two were a prototype and another pre-production model.

[@lindaterrell5535]

I remember watching the Russian SST crash.

[@PeterMayer]

I actually saw one of them a few years ago in Seattle at the museum of flight. I've never seen one.

[@jimdennis2451]

They are smaller than you think.

[@videosuperhighway7655]

747 ended up killing Pan Am they took in a large order and debt for 747 and right after the oil crisis and deregulation and the hub and spoke model etc.. The debt was too much.

[@gonetoearth2588]

Wonderful memories! TU-144....hahahahahahahahhaah....oops was that out loud?

[@videosuperhighway7655]

I guess Iran never ordered one after all.

[@tomgucwa7319]

I read concrete ,

[@BaronVonHobgoblin]

Commerical Aviation's Everest.

[@rodneysammons5544]

@ 14:35 1974 worldwide fuel crisis, 2019 worldwide covid crisis.

[@azzamkhalil26]

They could have made smaller versions of it and sold it for private sectors

[@AllIsWellaus]

The plane was too dangerous.

[@Ryan_D1994]

@@AllIsWellaus nonsense

[@lostpony4885]

@@AllIsWellaus it crashed minorly like once in its entire service life.

[@marcusdamberger]

@@lostpony4885 That crash wasn't even its own fault, there was no mechanical or pilot error. It was debris from another airline that had taken off earlier. Granted the design of the fuel tanks was updated afterward to prevent this from happening again.

[@oisiaa]

"socialist communist coalition"....geeze, people have been fear mongering forever.

[@jonathanwatanabe8246]

Too much, too soon. Just came to show that outside of the military, performance doesn't matter as much as operating economics.

[@erc9468]

Goes to show what happens when you let governments try to make business decisions. Let businesses do business. Don’t risk taxpayers’ money on bets that businesses won’t risk their own money on. Seems simple.

[@Clipper1094]

You can’t be serious. If that were the case, we wouldn’t have gone to the moon benefitted from the innovations that came out of it and half of our modern technology such as the internet wouldn’t exist today.

[@kurtpena5462]

@@Clipper1094 Most of the US was totally bored with Apollo after about two years. The costs were immense. The knowledge gained lead to more money wasted on Space Shuttle and now Space X et al. And don't get me started on the cost of the Viet Nam or Afghan Wars.

[@elanahammer1076]

Who knows maybe 🤔 they will bring this rare bird back into flight with some updates? Lol 🤔❤️🇺🇸

[@njt002]

My like was number 767...a widebody. Ha.

[@Phillies2008WSChamps]

This has not aged well

[@NoineNoineNoine]

huh?

[@Kiyoone]

?

[@rokiagad6320]

What's the point?!!!😏 third.

[@stuartlee6622]

Coming soon! (I hope) The Boom Overture!!!!

[@777jones]

Morley Safer's face was as strong as an African dictator (see Robert Mugabe) lol they look alike

[@nickinportland]

Can’t beat America I mean come on now lol

[@lostpony4885]

It wasnt an American thing even or do you mean the reporting.

[@Dont_Gnaw_on_the_Kitty_1]

Always disliked 60 minutes with its dumbed down clickbait style reporting. Its reporters always seemed a bit stupid or sort of slightly offended by anything progressive and this story on the Concord is no exception.

[@njathifrancis]

First

[@TW---]

Your friends and family must be very proud of your incredible accomplishment.

[@hoopsheavenpa]

Commercial aviation is so boring now 💤

[@mikeyagiela]

Second

[@jarrodyuki7081]

ugh.

[@moonliteX]

socialist communist lol 😆

[@paulsuprono7225]

Once it crashed . . . it was grounded ! 😝 💀

[@LeeAirVideos]

It was not grounded because of the accident; following modifications she flew again for two more safe years until being grounded due to economics. The follow on from 911, the economic global recession, SARS, UK foot and mouth and a general down turn to airline traffic. If the French had not withdrawn their fleet in 2003 and Airbus continued its support with spares she could have flown on until 2014; which British airways had every intention of doing after the modifications and new cabins. Concorde flew commercially for 26 years and British airways made on average £25 million a year in profits from the Concorde operation. My father flew on her regularly from Washington and New York to London; she was very popular with passengers and crews. More Americans flew on Concorde than any other nationalities; ironic hey?

[@lostpony4885]

@@LeeAirVideos grounding was like the fossil fuel honeymoons over now things get slower n harder.

[@moonliteX]

lol wtf what are they on about??? 😆😆 this might be the most bipolar news article i've ever seen 😆😆😆😆😆