620: Applying the 7 Deadly Sins in a Secular Age with Elizabeth Oldfield

[@miguele.carvajal8219]

Jesus gave his disciples power OVER demons, OVER desease, BUT not over the person who is demon possessed, or the person who is sick. We are commanded to SERVE those people - that is power UNDER. The only things we have power over are the things that we are redeemed from!

[@kicsms_science3729]

Thanks for this - super concise & helpful!

[@loveofjesusjerseycity9247]

Historically, the title was reserved for the incumbent president only, and was not to be used for former presidents, holding that it was not proper to use the title as a courtesy title when addressing a former president.[16][17][18][19][20]

[@2serve4Christ]

“#Christianity is being concerned about your fellow man, not building a million-dollar #church while - #people are #starving right around the corner. #Christ was a revolutionary person, out there where it was happening. That’s what #God is all about, and that’s where I get my strength.” - Mississippi #Christian civil rights activist Fannie Lou Hamer (1960 s)

[@LincolnDWard]

Regarding the power conversation, I think the key is that power is not a source of _value_ or _virtue_ like it is made to be in human cultures. Rather, it is a simple fact of life, something that God has in abundance and shares freely but rejects whenever possible in favor of raising up and glorifying weakness. Thinking about the big displays of God's "power over" in Scripture - the plagues, parting the Red Sea, demolishing Jericho's walls, casting out demons - none of these are presented as a reason for following God. Rather, they all serve to _devalue_ some other form of power - the gods of Egypt, military might, the power of demons over humans, etc.

[@battlejitney2197]

Katelyn needs to be there so there’s at least ONE adult on the show! 😂

[@mirnasmith6751]

😂

[@heatherkaye6362]

If the student really said that they were not allowed to bring up Christ, when in fact, as it says in the report, he was allowed to THANK Christ, but not to proselytize... Not only is he NOT being persecuted, he is sinning - Bearing false witness. My guess is that reports have altered language and the "reporters" are the ones bearing a false witness.

[@jonathonpolk3592]

True, but many in our camp won't hesitate to play the martyr card whenever they get the chance. They know you can't criticize them for it without "undermining the faith" or being insensitive to their oppression, and it bolsters the narrative that brings them cultural power.

[@bethprather9241]

I'm thinking as an educator thar it is not legal for the school,( unless private), to even ask him to not do it. The 1st amendment protects his freedom of speech and religion.. As a retired educator.. that is what I am not allowed to do.. As the educator..m.Guve a sermon or tell all about my church and Jesus and doctrine that would persuade them. But I can always pray.. But kids are aloud to say anything about their faith.. Christian, Hindu or whatever, as long as it doesn't take up an entire class time or disrupt it. The difference is I am paid by tax , gov. Money... The student isnt

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

​@bethprather9241 close, but as it is a school and therefore state sponsored function, and he is being asked by the school/state to speak he is subject to different rules than normal. Him proselytizing at even on his own time to those willing to hear is different than him doing so during his speach.

[@ShadowHauk]

Ummm...guys...Jesus was accused of Blasphemy but Pilate made it absolutely clear that he was innocent in the eyes of Roman laws. He was put to death based on the vote of the people, when given the choice to free Jesus or Barabbas. It was the Sanhedrin that chose to have him crucified. Pilate simply obliged them because he thought it to be more expedient, etc.

[@manicdisciple3884]

@ShadowHauk Was this in reference to the power conversation or what?

[@OCDrummer74]

Power … great to hear some differing opinions respecting each other. Power over at times is necessary, and I think in driving out demons, it is a rare use of power over but God/Jesus can handle it. As humans, it’s very risky to think we could use power over in a way that could bring redemptive ends. I don’t think we do have any examples or bible tells us to use power over others. I would say maybe even that Jesus or disciples using power over demons, is really power with God.

[@Thatgeekishfamily]

Those of us in the south get cicadas every year and giggle at how folks are freaking out over this.

[@SandySalmansohn]

I have tinnitus and it’s pretty much the same sound constantly.

[@-_-DAVe]

You get broods every year? There's a huge difference between the numbers of periodical and annual cicadas, don't think you can seriously compare having one or two annuals in your backyard chirping away with thousands simultaneously raining over everything.

[@Thatgeekishfamily]

@@-_-DAVe Annually we get trees covered. They are the sound of summer.

[@hapennysparrow]

I am in agreement on Mike's position on the subject of power over. Jesus " power over" demons was never used against human beings, but was used to set captives free from demonic oppression, not from the political. This is comparing apples to oranges. Two different realms entirely. I live in Southern CA and listen to Mike's teachings each week, as I also do the Holy Post. Always good food for thought. Thanks.

[@chappellroseholt5740]

Good afternoon from the beautiful SF Bay Area. First, you do not have to be afraid of learning the ways in which creation has evolved God's most deliciously beautiful universe. The scientific knowledge of ancient patriarchal nomads should have no bearing on understanding today's discoveries. It should invigorate your enthusiasm for God's brilliance. Aren't you glad God's creation is more incredible than our small minds could imagine? (PS Dinosaur poop is pronounced coprolite, short o like cop.) Second, what ever makes you think there is an "attraction" to abortion? Really! It is a medical procedure that is sometimes necessary. Women are not merely walking egg baskets until they pass shelf life, then to be tossed out. Pro Choice = Pro Life. Pro Choice = Pro Family. Anti Choice = Anti Family.

[@BighomieRich]

Skye said it best at the end: if power is inherently always bad in human hands, then governance isn't possible. Historically, the civil rights movement wouldn’t have succeeded without armed groups and the pressure of the Cold War on the global stage. It would be inaccurate to say the movement succeeded purely because of its nonviolent approach.

[@averageuser4367]

Governance, at its very best, is a necessary evil. "The most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.” - JRR Tolkien

[@nothanks6549]

It would be inaccurate to say that Mike is taking about living in a world where everything is in a vaccum. In a world where the black Panthers are the only civil rights group maybe we don't get the same results. In a world where MLK is the only organizer maybe we don't get the same results. The point is Christians don't set out to get the most efficient results, we set out to follow Jesus and to love our neighbors and our enemies. Jesus became the most influential person to ever live by his submitting his life to a corrupt government, when all along he had the power to rule over that government any time he wanted to. If following Christ leads us to inconvenient conclusions, then so be it.

[@BighomieRich]

@@averageuser4367 Romans 13:1 “The authorities that exist have been established by God” … I think by that reading you couldn’t say governance is a necessary “evil” and still believe that verse to be true in principle.

[@averageuser4367]

​@@BighomieRichwhat is the historical and literary context of Romans 13:1?

[@BighomieRich]

@@averageuser4367 the context appears to be being under the thumb of an oppressive Roman government… and yet the verse continues and even states “rulers are not terrors to good conduct but to bad”…so how can someone come away with the idea that it’s a necessary and still write things like this especially under this context?

[@kellyann3292]

I’m not finished, but I appreciated hearing Mike’s passion and how he traced it back to multiple examples in Scripture. I may be closer to Sky’s point of view(partially because I’ve not often heard Mike’s belief being defended so well), but that he seemed willing to rest in him and Sky’s disagreement without malice even though it was uncomfortable. It’s okay, Phil. Let him talk. He did it respectfully, and it was thought provoking.

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

Skye doent think power over is always bad. I'd like his example of 1 authoritarian government that has been moral, ethical, a benefit to the people. Even the churches power over their congregations alone has been used to harm. Documents, sermons, whistleblowers keep coming out telling of the harm the church has done against those they had power over.

[@ErictheHalf_bee]

Re: the pooseum, you missed a great opportunity to say he had 8,000 specimens of specimens.

[@bkucenski]

God did not give any person dominion over another person. We have responsibility for our children and there are several commands that limit what a parent can do to a child.

[@solomonandrade7864]

I like what Robert Caro said about power in a NYT interview: “You read in every textbook that cliché: Power corrupts. In my opinion, I’ve learned that power does not always corrupt. Power can CLEANSE.”

[@manicdisciple3884]

I do agree that we should critique our own side, but as someone who used to be firmly in one side and now am not, I think I (and others) have a unique ability to speak into the issues that they experienced first hand and were sold by. All with love of course

[@jonellmays-conyers7911]

52:05 absolute power over impedes on others rights. I disagree with Sky because even police officers that have power over others cannot violate the rights of individuals they are supposed to protect and serve. So even though they have power or authority to make decisions over others, they don’t have absolute power and control. They themselves are accountable for their actions.

[@pastorofmuppets8834]

History seems to be at odds with your claim. Police absolutely can violate the rights of others, have done, continue to do so, and only the rise of easily accessible recording has reduced this. Despite that, it still happens.

[@jaredwarner3972]

When dealing with power...I think the Christian view should be submission and service. Laying down their will and as Paul says regarding others better than you. I always found it interesting that many nations have "Ministers" as leaders but they very rarely serve... I actually gave a message about this last Sunday.

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

Ok the book....so the message i got from the interview is fake it till you make it, but what i didnt hear was any relating of anything to the 7 cardinal sins.

[@manicdisciple3884]

I struggle with the idea that loving one another, serving one another, etc doesn't also change the world at the same time. Like sure Paul doesn't say 'change the world' directly, but I think all of the 'being a Christian by loving God and loving others' also directly affects the world. But I see what he's saying with misguided energies.

[@StumblingThroughItAll]

While I have found a lot of disagreement with Mike in past episodes, I think he really nailed it on "baptizing our political decisions in Christianity". I find that the groups that treat Trump as Jesus adjacent and those who treat him as the absolute embodiment of evil are both practicing the same form of idolatry. Mike's willingness to communicate a humility on whether or not someone votes for Biden or Trump in this next election is spot on, IMHO.

[@elijahnatureboy]

We're supposed to have power over ourselves only, #HolyPost, and the only way for achieving that is to Live and Teach what Jesus Taught and Lived!

[@kathierezek3515]

Cicadas...oh my! I recall a bazillion of them in Missouri, and so far, here in North Central Michigan-not a one! One more great thing about Michigan!

[@jbreez761]

I think this is scripture that supports Ski point that Jesus likely supported both power with and power over - Matthew 23:2-3 (NIV): "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

[@lbjcb5]

Agreed, well said.

[@StumblingThroughItAll]

Elizabeth Oldfield is awesome! I love her encouragement to be seen with people you shouldn't be.

[@asdfrozen]

I don't think anyone cares, but Mike is probably dealing with Brood XIX, and Skye and Phil are dealing with Brood XIII

[@Justanotherconsumer]

How Brude!

[@Theinternalrewrite]

I was thinking about this recently: When Jesus met people who were pariahs, outcasts, unwanted, the first thing he showed them is that he did not reject them. He was willing to engage with them in ways other people wouldn't. They didn't need him to point out that they were unclean and/or sinful; they knew that but could not be redeemed in the eyes of society. Jesus showed he accepted them despite their problems, not condoning them but not treating them as an insurmountable barrier to knowing him. He didn't feel the need to give them an itemized list of all their transgressions but just let them know he knew why they were seen as rejects. It was the fact he didn't treat them as such that spoke to them and inspired them to follow him. Are we doing them same? How often do we make sure people know we love them despite living a life alternative to God, or do we refuse to tolerate them as though angry or afraid of the person the world has taught them to be? Except in certain circumstances where you may be susceptible to temptations that accompany that person why would you avoid them if you can be an example of love? Grace is in Heaven, punishment is in Hell, which will you represent?

[@carlacrosby]

He also said go and sin no more

[@Theinternalrewrite]

@@carlacrosby Very true. He did. But first he gave them love and hope, a reason to want to sin no more. All I'm saying is we have to be careful not to reserve our love and compassion until people have already turned their life around by themselves, particularly considering some people start in a harder position and need more help and support to get to a less sinful point in their lives. It's difficult to invest emotionally in people who might reject us and disappoint us, we open ourselves up to emotional vulnerability. But that is part of the call to minister to the lost. Guarding ourselves can seem cold, aloof, standoffish and judgemental. We need to continue to be more encouraging and supportive, yes, in helping them not to sin, but as part of building a closer relationship with Jesus who can deal with sin. Admonishment and discipline can come from leaders they will submit to but the rest of us should stick to gracious encouragement.

[@-_-DAVe]

Love the Mike, Skye disagreement it was more robust than a lot of the usual HP discussions(atleast the serious ones) which are mainly agreeing with each other.

[@jennmable]

I agree with Skye…. We ALL have a circle of influence. Each one of us. How we use that influence or power can either be glorifying to God or the exact opposite. ❤. Love your neighbor and God or weaponize Scripture. Thank you for the insight! ❤

[@TheDej]

So the student was told not to proselytize. The apostles were also told not to in Acts. Telling the student not to is the persecution. Following up by not giving his diploma continues the persecution. Now the student should have made it clear that he was going to ahead of time as the apostles did but his omission or even subterfuge doesn’t change it from being persecution.

[@TheDej]

Also the conversation about whether they would have done to same to a Muslim or Hindu is beside the point. If they do the same to other or all religious expressions, then that may be religious persecution as opposed to just persecution of Christians. Not saying that it is automatically persecution but that the criteria used to say it isn’t persecution by Skye and Mike isn’t adequate. I noticed Phil sat that one out and didn’t give his perspective.

[@daveflanagan4213]

One of the most humorous and stimulating chats in power as defined in the gospel and practiced by us Jesus’ disciples

[@hhhieronymusbotch]

Brood X are probably my 7th favourite 00's Nu Metal band

[@flight007keith2]

Amen Mike

[@aosidh]

Does the church in England have the same issues with SA?

[@MRB-19]

I like the PLM restating of the old "birds of a feather..." and on the scary side of the fright side of flight-or-fright variety; it has come to me as 🤔 FMO?

[@veronica944]

About the story with the graduation and persecution. I do agree that it wasn’t persecution, but I don’t agree with Skye that it’s because the same standard was applied to all religions. It’s also not because there was a rule about it that he chose to break. In the Bible the disciples were told not to preach about Jesus and they knowingly broke that rule. And Paul even defends himself against the persecution in the latter part of Acts. I think that if they had actually withheld his diploma permanently I might consider it persecution. But persecution based on what I see in the Bible is about the severity. It doesn’t just mean being treated differently for your faith. But I think it’s always some kind of life altering consequence (physical abuse, imprisonment, etc.). But I do think it’s still wrong for the school to not allow him to receive his diploma in the graduation because he broke a rule. But just because something is wrong doesn’t mean it is persecution.

[@veronica944]

But I think I get annoyed in America that we call things persecution that are not remotely close to what the disciples experienced in the Bible or what many Christians experience today in some countries. Many are risking their lives to preach the gospel, and in America that is rarely the case.

[@globalhuzb]

I see the Poozeum is just west of Flagstaff and north of Phoenix. You should have a live event out in that area and definitely have Kaitlyn do an onsite interview at the Poozeum.

[@brucegaylord5384]

Williams Arizona is the same town where you can catch the train to the Grand Canyon. The train ride is a lot of fun and the scenery is great. You can stop at the museum then catch the train.

[@bixles]

I live in Prescott, about an hour from Williams, and I approve this message.

[@patrickmccurdy8688]

I tend to agree with Mike over Skye. I just see no instance where power has not corrupted.

[@rev.jeffwillrumble7711]

The Google says that there is also a Pooseum in Australia.

[@pastorofmuppets8834]

Yep that's right someone told me about that today!

[@JohnBrandkamp]

As they say in the rooms, fake it till you make it.

[@MichaelMoriarty-c9q]

Good sum up, Skye. Power over, in some circumstances, is necessary or society will eventually get overrun by massive evil.

[@joykeebler1916]

- the song BATTLE SCAR/Max Webster

[@MyDustyBooks]

They need an and sometimes MIiiiiike

[@JasonBower-ql3cd]

Yes, there where somethings Mike touched base on, I personally Agreed with. But after actually watching the whole upload. I think Mike was only ideologically viture signaling towards his CHURCH TRIBE audience. Jason B. Lincoln, Nebraska🌽🌽🌽

[@emilydrake2294]

I agree! He's definitely been on frequent enough he deserves his own intro tag 🙌

[@mirnasmith6751]

I think that Phil needs to revamp the whole song....this one just... Reminds me it's missing something.

[@2serve4Christ]

Thou shalt not #kill. (Exodus 20:13) / Thou shalt not [be complicit in #genocide]. More than 14,500 #children killed in #Gaza. The latest #death toll stands at 35,287 #Palestinians and 1,139 people killed in #Israel since October 7. (2024.05.07)

[@hgservices5572]

🤔 if Hamas would quit using Palestinians as human shields there would be less innocents dying . Hamas is an evil group

[@averageuser4367]

​@@hgservices5572why do you think Hamas arose in the first place?

[@jdtreharne]

​@@averageuser4367 radical Islam

[@hgservices5572]

…. So is this the part you attempt to defend Hamas , its formation and its existence? This should be interesting .

[@averageuser4367]

​@@hgservices5572no, I'm not going to defend Hamas. It is possible for both sides of a conflict to be bad though. Context is important.

[@troylogan446]

Did things get weird between the host and the guest???

[@2serve4Christ]

13:30 [Palestinian] #Nurse fired for calling #Gaza war #genocide while accepting #compassion award (CBS NEWS | May 30, 2024)

[@mirnasmith6751]

Power over evil. Actual evil. When you rebuke and idea of having a Child and the idea doesn't go away...lol

[@JohnBrandkamp]

Thank you for bringing into sharp relief the most important term acedia.

[@guywinters5939]

Power corrupts, absolute power ... is kinda neat.

[@mirnasmith6751]

Some demons needed fasting for the disciples.

[@JohnBrandkamp]

The idolatry of distraction. A perfect description.

[@timothymulholland7905]

Much ado about nothing. The kid gave a speech and included his religious opinion. Big deal. He wasn't the school's spokesperson, no one was hurt. Withholding his diploma, even for a day, THAT was wrong.

[@gratefuldudegaming.8170]

A chirstian should not kill people, thats why I AM anabaptist.

[@mitchmonteith6468]

Go Boomers, Go Boomers

[@hgservices5572]

Wokism is found in high volume in woman because it highjacks the maternal instincts and defines who is and who is not in the sacred class of protected peoples. A social currency to identify as part of this protected class is the byproduct. Propaganda also helps

[@averageuser4367]

Starting a new conversation because you couldn't actually give proper responses in the other one that you posted? Very classy behavior. You're correct about exactly one thing though. Propaganda is very effective. You're living proof of that.

[@3eyedcyclops]

You see the world not as it is, but as you are. And when you look at the world, all you see are your own psychosexual neuroses reflected back at you.

[@averageuser4367]

Jesus was and is "woke". This is what happens when you get your theology from Faux News instead of an informed study of the Bible.

[@hgservices5572]

No , this is my workaround, sometimes it works and sometimes it does not . I essentially responded in this manner in our thread but it would be removed for whatever reason . Tried two different angles . I cannot really carry on a decent honest conversation with you because of the handicap 🤷‍♂️ . Doesn’t matter that much to me , your loss more than anything

[@averageuser4367]

Romans 2:24

[@joykeebler1916]

- well there is also petrified poop too man from what i(I) understand

[@FernandoLeite-hc1zd]

Phil Vischer is still alive wow

[@drewnoffsinger7192]

Phil... chill.

[@joykeebler1916]

- perpoopsecluded not persecuted

[@joykeebler1916]

-just kidding

[@jbreez761]

I think this is scripture that supports Ski point that Jesus likely supported both power with and power over - Matthew 23:2-3 (NIV): "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

[@averageuser4367]

​@@michaelward7051lol fascism is bad my dude. If you disagree, it's because you're a fascist.

[@3eyedcyclops]

@@michaelward7051 Here's a timeless soliloquy from William Shakespeare's "As You Like It": "All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts, His acts being seven ages. At first the infant, Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms; And then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel And shining morning face, creeping like snail Unwillingly to school. And then the lover, Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier, Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard, Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel, Seeking the bubble reputation Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice, In fair round belly with good capon lined, With eyes severe and beard of formal cut, Full of wise saws and modern instances; And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts Into the lean and slippered pantaloon, With spectacles on nose and pouch on side; His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice, Turning again toward childish treble, pipes And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all, That ends this strange eventful history, Is second childishness and mere oblivion, Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything." You are now in your seventh age, your second childishness, mewling and whining (whenever you're not doting upon Donald Trump in the same way that a small child dotes upon his father). But worship him as you might, Donald Trump WILL NOT save you from your ultimate fate of mere oblivion. Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything. Still, you could save yourself from the eternal SHAME of having supported a FASCIST like Donald Trump. Unless what you really want from this life is for your grave to become your descendants' favorite urination station.