67 Rule the Waves 3 | Germany 1935 | New techs upsetting CV design

[@b1laxson]

Wonderful to see a youtuber work with his community's input.

[@RvTWargames]

What's the point of having so many massive brains watching if you're not going to turn to them when you're stuck!

[@juanlloberas1715]

I lost a 5in deck carrier due to a single 1000lb bomb hit... Thats when you start considering if its worth to give armor or not to your cvs. I think more planes and sams are the priority at this point of the game, although 100+ planes seems a little bit too much for me. Once i hit the 100 planes mark i start increasing belt/deck (dont think flight deck is relevant). One thing i do in my last save was choosing damage control as extra training. Seems to be worth it (saved a couple of carriers receiving a couple of missiles). As drachinifel points out many times... The crew quality and damage control training of the american during ww2 was crucial to save many vessels. Love the channel. I was missing the vids. Cheers.

[@RvTWargames]

Ouch! That's a painful loss. 5in fight deck = 10,784 of armour or 38 planes off the Europa. That almost equals one of my old, modernised fleet carriers (44 planes each)! I'd prefer the extra planes. Particually when you talk spot values. 26 per old carrier 49 per armoured deck Europa 62 per unarmoured Europa From my understanding, saturation is a key factor in air (and missile) attacks. Once you saturate the enemies air defences the rest get to attack 'for free' without loss. So bigger spot values allow for bigger attacks that allow for (proportionately) less losses and more hits. As for Damage Control, totally agree about crew quality (and for everything else too). Less certain about the doctrine. In the early game it's really really important. But in the late game a lot of damage control techs have been invented, so I think it's impact is more marginal. BTW, Drach also points to the very nice sunny Pacific weather, calm seas, and no interference by the enemy once the attack has passed. In Atlantic, Arctic and even Mediterranean environments, it's tends to lot less eary.

[@Divinegaming20]

The non aggression pact in 1939 suddenly makes more sense.

[@FoxxofNod]

I would favor the Europa design, though only slightly. The biggest thing is that they can both spot 60+ aircraft at once so they can launch three full 20 plane squadrons at a time. I don't really think you are missing anything on them. I like to give mine extended range and reliable engines but I tend to own half the world at this point in the game.

[@pocheesy73]

Seconded for Europa. 32kn speed means the ship could run all the way to 1990 without ever needing an engine refit.

[@antonisauren8998]

Is it worth putting long range storages on fleet destroyers? I've noticed that in those long carrier battles, half of my screen runs out of fuel before carrier runs out of missiles and fresh pilots.

[@RvTWargames]

Interesting idea. Certainly when 3,500 ton DDs become a thing. Currently, I'd have to lose quite a lot of speed or firepower to take the range to Long.

[@RvTWargames]

I hear you guys: Europa it is!

[@antonisauren8998]

I'm rather asking community for their experience than proposing it to you. It always feels more beneficial to put more missiles or something, but then escorts fail in escorting mid battle.

[@b1laxson]

@25:00 again... not even looking at the deck armor which was auto made at 4". If you want splinter protection you'd want to have lowered that to 1.5 to 2.5 inch.

[@mikhailiagacesa3406]

Thanks for introducing me to the missile age navies. Three of my YT channels are engaging in sea power gameplay without explaining anything. I learn more by watching you. Will watch a Sea Power vid if you do it, but I'm going to give those other channels a miss until the game becomes less of an 'I got there first' vibe.

[@RvTWargames]

Learning together, @mikhailiagecesa!

[@pterrok5495]

;-) For those gun turrets on the CVs, you can right-click on the gun in the gun list and choose Position. Then move it to a nacelle and off the flight deck! With symmetry off, should be able to move them port or starboard and the game doesn't care about it for effectiveness.

[@RvTWargames]

Thanks @pterrok, that's really helpful!

[@julianc3682]

Your CA refit @13:00 still has 'Normal' crew accommodation....

[@RvTWargames]

Thanks, how very annoying!

[@brisim_gluine7254]

I think you should always be building at least 1 new CV (serial production) regardless of tech, if you keep waiting for techs theres always a something new coming around the corner. I would also drop planes for speed and push 35kn, 120ac is a lot for a CV of this time no? Otherwise the Europa seems the better choice. Great video as always hopefully the next one is soon ! ;)

[@pocheesy73]

CV max speed is 33kn with unmodified game files.

[@RvTWargames]

35kn, even if possible, would have been a lot weight deciated to speed. But yes, the Europa is more popular.

[@brisim_gluine7254]

Oh yes I forgot the fast carriers are nuclear irl! I subscribe to the naval theory that speed is king

[@b1laxson]

61,800 ton CV: I would keep belt armor 3 and deck armor 1 as that's just handy against random boom booms. Having flight deck armor is a debate but 2" ish can help with light bombs and rockets. In theory an armored flight deck would mean a bigger bomb is triggered to detonate in the hanger with the deck armor then being splinter protection. One thing I would do is reduce the AA directors down from 4 to 2 as you arent using as much HAA. AFAIK they affect HAA score but honestly... it might be black box helping the Radar MAA. With special squardons you lose 1/6 to the special squadron so just keep that in mind. 120 planes is 100 fighting planes. I often stay at 100 planes but even at 120 planes you have a lot so you might want to focus the remaining tonnage on making the carrier survivable. TPS4 of course, 3" belt, 1" ish deck, deck armor 2-3" ish etc. You wont stop the heavy missile or heavy bomb hits but you can reduce the affect of medium or light bombs. In long range carrier on carrier fighting those medium and light bomb loads might be what are hitting you. Not sure if I sent you a suitable or near tonnage CV in the bundle of ships I sent you. If so feel free to use it in a discussion.

[@pocheesy73]

Some recent testing on the RTW Discord indicates that deck armor on carriers can lower survivability. Bombs exploding on the flight deck or in the hanger can cause planes to catch fire but allowing the bomb to penetrate all the way to the engine room to detonate there will not cause fires. Since big carriers have an abundance of flotation hitpoints and enough speed to limp away after an engine hit but are always vulnerable to being lost to planes exploding that means its better to tank any random bomb hits with the engine room. Its a little weird and counterintuitive but then again the last time I played to 1990 I took a total of two bomb hits to carriers (both on one carrier in one strike) between 1960 and 1990. Thick clouds of HJF CAP are the first and best defense against air attack.

[@RvTWargames]

Interesting @b1laxson. I worked up the armour on the Europa desgn and the following weights 3" belt = 2,600t 1" deck = 2,156t 2" flight deck = 4,908t = 9,664 tons of armour = 15.6% displacement = 96 planes (including space to fit SAMs) (FYI 1" hangar = 1,169t 3" flight deck = 7,799t = 80 planes with SAM space) Reducing AA directors to 2 lowers HAA from 48 to 41 I have to say, I like @pocheesy's reasoning here. With penetration threats from the air and from the sides and from underwater, and a highly flammable cargo, it's really hard to provide decent protection all around, so another 32 or 48 planes sounds a good deal. It makes a single Europa equivalent to 3 earlier modernised carriers!

[@b1laxson]

When working on designs if you use "export graphic" you save it not just for later games but reloading to show details in the current game.

[@johnclifford9853]

Don’t forget to design your attack jets.

[@RvTWargames]

Me? Forget? Without you prompting me? Surely not!

[@b1laxson]

@@RvTWargames It how we know yer a Brit

[@RvTWargames]

Lol

[@eddieballgame]

Truly appreciate these, very, instructive videos.

[@RvTWargames]

🧐 Instructive 😀 ... even when I'm making a pig's ear of it!

[@rbfishcs123]

Thanks for another update video on your save Dickie - so with a treaty signed for the USSR, where might your war department look to next? The Anglo/French alliance?

[@RvTWargames]

That's pretty much where it's heading. With my Baltic safe and secure turning West seems the best option.

[@b1laxson]

On unexpected plane development I almost always accept it. Then you can review it in the airplane types and decide to obsolete it right away. Now the cheezy thing with that is it is still being considered for possible "B" variants that might make it even better.

[@RvTWargames]

I don't believe you can actually reject a plane development. Whenn a B or whatever variant appears, the Cancel button seems to do nothing!

[@b1laxson]

@@RvTWargames but if you refuse the "company X is presenting plane Y" I believe it goes into the vapor. So you accept it then obosolete it from the aircraft types page if its not good.

[@b1laxson]

Give the CV colonial service. Costs a few hundred at most while adding 25% for control purposes, which for a CV is actually a lot. I like to think of it as carrying more utility craft like transport planes, parachute capable planes or extra helicopters for overland force projection.

[@RvTWargames]

Nice idea, @b1laxson

[@dcbadger2]

A Persian cat gifted by the King of Siam? I had to fact check, and indeed the King of Siam gave old Fredrich a Siamese cat. Sounds like this guy was the original Baron von Munchhausen

[@alaingloster4405]

Need piston engine fighter for their nighttime ability? Could you expand on that please

[@pocheesy73]

Light jet fighters cannot be night capable so he still has to rely on piston engine fighters at night, at least until heavy jet fighters enter service.

[@xxxm981]

Soooo, i guess no war untill super carriers in service?

[@RvTWargames]

Probably. Though the game can always nose dive into war suddenly. Usually when you don't want it too.

[@gracegood3661]

Europa please

[@RvTWargames]

Noted :-)

[@jaywerner8415]

AND as is RULE THE WAVES Tradition, right as you design and commission a new ship class BOOM, all the Techs you were waiting for DROP! UGH..... Got to love when that happens. But yeah, Welcome to 1950s and the Age of Jets and Missiles. As a reminder, HEAVY JETS and Jet Attackers can Operate at Night, so once you get a decent Heavy Jet you can probably retire your Turbo Props and the Light Jets as well. I have no doubt by the time the next war happens you going to see the Missile spam messages. From Ships and Aircraft alike. Speaking of which, I don't think lvl 6 Radar actually does anything. Because from what I recall from the manual while you can have radar lvls 1 level higher then your current Tech, all that does is "reserve" deck space for future radar upgrades. But far as i know it only goes up to level 5. I agree WHAT WAR TENSIONS? The world is quite peaceful at the moment. Might be a good opportunity to conduct a few Naval Exercises Come to think of it to keep the Crew XP level up.

[@RvTWargames]

Thank goodness I'll be able to get rid of the piston engined fighters, finally. And yes, search radar only goes up to level 5 and fire control radar to level 4. Curious.

[@jaywerner8415]

@@RvTWargames I wonder if their is page somewhere that shows you plane kills sorted by aircraft model, just curious if the Turbo Props killed any jets. Cus their is a Story where a p47D shot down a Mig 21 cus the pilot of that jet went HEAD on with 2 fully loaded P47Ds (bombs, Rockets, and their 20mm cannons), and the P47s WON. I think the LVL 6 radar might be a small oversight from the Devs, Cus the game Soft ends in 1960 and Hard ends in 1990. But I'm not sure. Its not like we get 1970s, 1980s Tech. But yeah, Treaty with the Soviets (LOL, thats why you READ things Carefully) and relatively LOW Tensions, good time to conduct some Naval Exercises.

[@pocheesy73]

@@jaywerner8415 Radar limit 6 gives extra topside space at the expense of tonnage. Just something to keep in mind when designing: if you need topside space more than tonnage go to 6, if you are more tonnage constrained then stick to 5.

[@RvTWargames]

OK, more topside space sounds handy.

[@jaywerner8415]

@@pocheesy73 Wait that actually does something? Good to know. Ill keep that in mind for future playthoughs.

[@GreenKnight2001]

Radar 6 doesn't exist so pointless

[@RvTWargames]

Yes, just checked. Weird that.

[@GreenKnight2001]

@RvTWargames I've made the same mistake before. Kind of dumb the code doesn't stop or warn you.