7 Huge Plot Holes That Get Worse the More You Think About Them: Commenter Edition

[@Jabogers]

I would like to point out that for Dragon Age, you need a drop of Archdemon blood for the Joining, and Alistair and the Warden were never informed of that fact, nor do they have any. If they just tried to make people chug regular darkspawn blood, that would have just created a bunch of ghouls.

[@daviddaugherty2816]

Alistair also mentions it involves other magic he didn’t understand. Not for a second did I question why we couldn't do the Joining.

[@Diannetopf]

I came here to say this. Alistair and your warden don't actually know how to recreate the ceremony. Only Duncan knew and he died. The Orlesian wardens knew but Logain wouldn't acknowledge it was a blight and refused proper warden reinforcement.

[@martinsriber7760]

It isn't about those two, but order as whole.

[@Renanbso]

@@martinsriber7760 The order is foreign to Ferelden, Loghain closed the borders to the Orlesian Wardens as Ferelden had just fought a war with them

[@diri_birb]

@@martinsriber7760 but, who except those two + riordan would have had the chance to make more wardens during the game? Loghain didn't trust any Orlesians, including the Wardens, and didn't let them in Ferelden. Ferelden had only recently unbanned the Grey Wardens (so the Wardens that died in the beginning of the game were mostly Orlesian, which is also one of the reasons why Loghain decided to abandon them to their deaths), so the instructions for the ritual probably wouldn't have been easily available to the two in the first place. I guess Riordan could have done it, but considering that he's available to do so late in the game, so close to the final battle, trying to make new wardens with a ritual that kills most of the people undergoing it when they're going to need every capable person fighting the darkspawn army soon isn't really the smartest course of action. Even when Loghain undergoes the joining, it is basically a sentence he's given: either he dies or he spends the rest of his life as a Grey Warden.

[@Levyathyn]

For Bioshock, the First Lady was an expensive, custom job designed for one individual to use, and thus could be crewed and piloted by one person. The much larger airship that Booker clears out of enemies is none of those things, and likely isn't really workable by an individual or likely even a pair of people.

[@Burkhart4192]

While that may be true, the only reason Booker fixates on getting it is because it happens to fly by when he needs to convince Elizabeth to come with him. He never tries to find out whether there are any other airships off Columbia, and indeed it's likely the Luteces prune any Bookers that do escape the city with Elizabeth without killing Comstock because they want Elizabeth to kill all the Comstocks.

[@PlebNC]

Additionally airships in Bioshock require keys to operate so unless Booker was careful enough to not punch a guard off the airship, he isn't likely going to be able to take control at all, let alone fly it.

[@marauderdz]

@@Burkhart4192 Booker may retain some subconscious knowledge of the airships from previous rescue attempts, and instinctively rejects any other airship from consideration.

[@Burkhart4192]

@@marauderdz That's a pretty weak excuse citing information we never see, and don't know if exists.

[@marauderdz]

@@Burkhart4192 It was simply a possible explanation. Everything doesn't have to be an argument.

[@danielvital6836]

As someone who has played Dragon Age Origins A LOT, this is actually addressed in the game. When you meet Riordan, he straight up tells you why you can’t. They had the ingredients and everything locked in away in a vault. He said there isn’t enough ingredients and time to make more (I guess they found enough to make one). Also it’s explained that Alistair is a new Warden and doesn’t actually know how to make the potion for the joining as it’s more than just dark spawn blood (the recipe was locked away by Howe and Loghain).

[@robertagu5533]

Yeah AND it's ALSO said to be VERY VERY risky even for Warden candidates they believed in verse that even if an army of candidates shows up vast majority WOULD die during the "tainting" ceremony...

[@LeRoiEnJaune]

Also also: it's dicey from a character standpoint. Alistair and the Warden both did it, sure, but they were desperate. Going around to prisons and gutters to find people desperate enough for a crusade is a tall order in the first instance; add to it that you'd be knowingly condemning ~30% or so to an immediate death is very different. It's no wonder that, even if they could, our protags might not jump at the opportunity.

[@eddythefool]

Plus they need lyrium and help from the mages to get the ritual ready. It's assumed Duncan had Ferelden's supply of Archdemon blood since that's what Riordan tells you if suggest making more recruits so they couldn't make any more recruits until right before the last battle since we can assume that's when the small amount of supplies they were able to get finally arrived to allow for the secret companion to join the forces as a Grey Warden.

[@Joe90h]

Also also on top of people just straight up dropping dead for even trying, Grey Wardens have the stink of Darkspawn AND mage about them to most common folk, so society isn't exactly brimming with masses of people clamouring to become Grey Wardens.

[@dawnmcauley6411]

There's an optional (and rather obscure) dialogue you can have Riordan in Eamon's estate. There he tells you exactly what you need for the ritual: darkspawn blood (duh,) which is enriched with lyrium, and Archdemon blood (technically, only Archdemon is necessary, it's my personal theory that's how the first Wardens were made with Dumat's blood, but regular Darkspawn blood can be and is used when it's enriched by lyrium and small amounts of Archdemon blood.)

[@albinhodge1568]

There actually could be a reason for the ominous red lighting in the werewolf cave/halloween attraction: canids cannot see red light. So while humans are able to see (mostly) fine in there, werewolves could possibly be in the dark.

[@markusnixon3156]

It made me think of that scene from Helluva Boss where they're cornered by D.O.R.K.S. and Loona was unable to read the grimoire because of the red lighting.

[@chrisbeam4578]

No, they just can't differentiate between red and green light because they only have one type of cone for longer wavelengths whereas humans have two (red and green). That cone is still responsive to red light, it just likely won't give dogs the same color perceptions it does to non-colorblind humans. (Dogs may not even have the color opponent circuitry to perceive color at all but it's debatable).

[@ij940]

They can still see the light, they just can't tell it's red.

[@Adamago1]

One of the "secret herbs and spices" in the Joining blend is actually a drop of Archdemon blood, something kind of hard to come by. And even if that weren't extraordinarily hard to get at the best of times, the brand new Grey Warden protagonist wouldn't know that. And even Alistair, if aware, might not be keen on experimenting to create the right concoction. So... not really a plot hole.

[@Macrochenia]

Alistair straight up tells you that he doesn't know everything that's needed for The Joining.

[@chriskoloski32]

Imagine forgetting something they tell you at the beginning of the game is super secret and then calling it a plot hole.

[@GaZZuM]

Right as I read the words "secret herbs and spices" I got a notification from the KFC app, so now I'm questioning my entire reality. Thanks.

[@stevecole90099]

1. Bioshock. The most realistic thing about that game is that Booker gets so caught up in his current mission to help Vox that the thought of stealing a different airship never crosses his mind. I think we've all had days like that.

[@waltlock8805]

I think he also wanted to get back to the "original" timeline. That part of the game gets confusing...

[@Burkhart4192]

Also, he solves the problem of the Vox's gunsmith having his tools confiscated by shifting timelines to one where his tools were never confiscated, and expects that timeline's version of Daisy to reward him for solving a problem she never had.

[@cirelancaster]

We also don't know the range of the other airship. The first one could be designed for long distance travel.

[@SpongeBathBill]

​@cirelancaster Good point. It's also quite a bit larger? He might not be confident they can crew it with just the two of them. To say nothing of trying to evade pursuers in it.

[@Crescendobro]

My guess is that only specific Airships have the navigation equipment needed to far away cities and The First Lady is the only one Booker could find

[@Oderus_Urungus]

For Dragon age origins: 1) Neither you or Alistair know how to do the joining 2) They don't have the ingredients, and once Riordan shows up he only had enough supplies for one 3) Alistair says the only way he knew to contact other Wardens was to travel to weisshaupt fortress on the other side of the continent

[@Nintendofreak023]

Wasn't there also a risk of death when attempting the ritual? I swear I remember another wannabe gray warden try and fail shortly before the player character attempts the ritual.

[@Oderus_Urungus]

@@Nintendofreak023 Yep. One dies, and the other refuses to drink out of fear of death (and then gets killed because they refused). More characters die during the expansion. They mentioned several times in game that not everyone survives.

[@alalalala57]

Number 3 is still the dumbest thing ever.

[@Oderus_Urungus]

@@alalalala57 Yeah, that's kinda the point. You're both new recruits and Alistair being dumb is part of his character. Lore wise they explained in game why there are no Wardens in Ferelden

[@jonathanwillams4083]

Yeah, it was also explained at camp when you talked to Alistair, so unless they never talked to Alistair or they just didn't plan origins

[@MichaelVine92]

No, Mike... The basement is lit red because they're all enthusiastic amateur photographers!

[@DirgeTV]

How big do they need their photo processing room to be?

[@vikiai4241]

@@DirgeTV They are VERY enthusiastic amateur photographers!

[@kittykattofdoom]

Iirc the Hacketts only use the cages during the 2 months the camp is in operation and let caleb, Kaylee, and chris run wild to lead them back to Silas on all other full moons. The campers were supposed to be gone but were delayed at sundown so chris left to try and get Kaylee and Caleb in the cages but it was too late.

[@glassphoenix9095]

i vaguely remember hearing kaylee and/or caleb decided to run wild on purpose because they were tired of keeping a lid on everything and hoped to expose the existence of werewolves by wolfing out. then again i dont actually remember where i heard that 💀

[@Boyzby]

@@glassphoenix9095 That does sound familiar, so it must've been in the game somewhere. I think there's a pretty angry letter Kaylee writes to her grandma, so that must be where it's from.

[@ShaoShaoMienshao]

This is what's called an idiot plot, lol. The entire issue would have been avoided if they had everyone vacate the camp the day before the full moon, not the day of the full moon. Insanely dumb, but hey, most horror setups are. 😅

[@RevanAlaire]

@@ShaoShaoMienshao Did you forget that Jacob sabotages the counselors car?

[@MikayaAkyo]

@@ShaoShaoMienshao The whole issue is that one of them sabotages the Car so he can mend his relationship or smth. But i agree, accidents can happen so vacating them a day prior would be a better idea.

[@christopherg2347]

7:31 The 50% survival rate is a big issue. You would literally half your forces with not enough time to train on using the abilities. The PC was _exceptionally_ desperate to go through with it, to get Grey Warden protection. Otherwise only people already exposed to the taint would even _consider_ it. Duncan _knived_ someone when they tried to pull out. Turning Loghain into a Warden was a "fate slightly better then execution".

[@sarafontanini7051]

hell, its why all the player character's backgrounds are bad enough to get them to want to do it, especially the mages and the dwarven rogue

[@christopherg2347]

@@sarafontanini7051 Only the Noble background is the odd one out. With them it feels forced/not sufficiently explained.

[@stormtempterf8058]

Nah nah nah. I was a mage and I was furious at being forced to go through with it. I could burn down the circle, and the darkspawn and half the countryside if I wanted, I didn't need no joining and I could definitely have turned Duncan to ash if he tried. Alas, I was locked onto the rail the game necessitates, lol. I had to be content to give as much sass and venom in my responses to Duncan and the templar as the game allowed XD Duncan was already joined, he could have had me watch his back while he did his job. I'd have love to have pointed out to him that if tried to force me there would be zero wardens, either way it went.

[@OneEvilPlatypus]

"Literally *halve your forces", not "half". "Duncan *knifed someone", not "knived". "Fate slightly better *than execution", not "then".

[@brandonsz7937]

That is a damning non-answer, Amy Rose

[@Panimal98]

I understood that reference.

[@zackcoggins9752]

She doesn't even give talking heads a chance to clip out the answer. She actually didn't answer at all.

[@Joe90h]

Amy Rose only agreed to go to Prison Island if there was no fact checking.

[@zackcoggins9752]

@@Joe90h - For her. Her opponent must be fact checked even when not wrong, and she must never be.

[@sarafontanini7051]

amy rose: almost definitely a spy working for GUN who may have done war crimes

[@terrivel11]

Doesn’t Alistair explicitly say that he **doesn’t know how to prepare the ritual** or something like that? Maybe he doesn’t have/can’t get the materials needed. The only reason you can do it later is because a much more veteran Warden, in the form of Riordan did it for you.

[@shotgunshells2]

The ritual needs two types of darkspawn blood, standard blood from any spawn, and Archdemon blood. The archdemon blood supply is under lock and key, and had been seized by Logain.

[@eddythefool]

​@@shotgunshells2 I doubt it was seized. More likely destroyed if Duncan was carrying it since the Grey Warden vault was a secret to everyone.

[@eddythefool]

Also they needed lyrium and other things that Alistair didn't know about since the mages helped Duncan set up your joining.

[@charimonfanboy]

Plus you don't become great by becoming a grey warden, the great are selected to become a grey warden. Most candidates don't survive the joining and those who do need to give up their ranks, positions and families. All you get is the ability to sense darkspawn and the ability to kill the archdemon if you land the finishing blow. No real reason to make more Grey Wardens by the time they are able to.

[@Alsebra]

One would also expect that the drink's recipe would be a closely-guarded secret...and, if the circle mages (the ones that crafted the drink, except for the darkspawn blood) are otherwise preoccupied, they're unable to make more for the group.

[@unverifiedapk]

Pretty sure Amy was just a stowaway on Eggman's ship. That's why he said he'd let her go at the end of the boss fight.

[@zachtwilightwindwaker596]

Well that would explain how she got there.

[@isenokami7810]

What ship? Eggman didn’t seem to have a ship. I just assumed he teleported there with Shadow and Rouge. And that line was very clearly directed at Tails, not Amy, very much a “don’t think you actually beat me” line.

[@zachtwilightwindwaker596]

@@isenokami7810 He had one before.

[@MikayaAkyo]

While Eggman, Shadow and Rouge likely arrived via ship, they probably went there directly from their Base which at that point is Space Colony ARK. It's highly unlikely Amy just randomly stumbled into Eggman's Ship when he literally directly went to Prison Island from a Space Colony.

[@vikiai4241]

I have a problem with that being classified as a plot hole. Amy lying about it says to me that there is an explanation, just that _we_ are not privy to it.

[@smiff-it7840]

Borderlands 2. Handsome Jack wants the vault hunters dead but also owns the company that makes machines that resurrects the vault hunters after they die

[@vedwalker3974]

I can answer that. Borderlands' creator said that the New-U machines are non-canon. Less common gadget, more game mechanic. You aren't supposed to die in the game, but if you do, you're supposed to not acknowledge it. (That does make one mission kind of weird, but let's not bring it up.)

[@TransmitHim]

That just sounds like vertical integration of businesses rather than a plot hole.

[@Creshosk]

There's even specifically a quest where he pays you to kill yourself.... and then one of his machines brings you back presumably because he forgot to turn them off, or isn't able to sift through all of the data of his employees to find the vault hunters to ban them from the system.

[@MrMasterful1000]

To be fair.... constantly murdering and reviving people just to kill them again is definitely something Jack would do

[@Schregger]

Ive already came to the conclusion that they had the idea for the story, but forgot New-Us were a thing and decided "fuck it, New-Us arent canon..." Not the first time Gearbox has fucked up.

[@mooniejohnson]

Always trust in Nintendo’s ability to insert bootstrap paradoxes into every Zelda game.

[@TheBlackSeraph]

The Goron vase can at least be potentially explained as being something made by a later ancestor then given to the Goron guard who predates the vase's initial creation. Questions about the vase's age are still interesting.

[@Michael_Lindell]

Hey! Being a Grey Warden Tain't that bad.

[@ptonpc]

Tain't that a shame....

[@andrewbyrne2173]

Boo!

[@thejason755]

What is tain’t it it tis, and what it tis it tain’t.

[@naughtycicero1460]

Booooooooo!

[@tyerayle92]

Taint right!

[@gak9319]

One of the ingredients for the joining ritual is Archdemon blood, bit hard to come by. What little was left in Ferelden is destroyed by Logahin😅 Guess Riordan brought some more with him?🤔

[@tomasrolter6729]

As for Bioshock, as far as I remember, only the "First Lady" was strong enough to fly to any of the cities.

[@stinkertonsden]

Was just about to come into the comments to say this. The one that Booker takes out was a gunship, shorter range with guns/armaments rather than long distance stability and fuel capability.

[@filmandfirearms]

Yeah, trying to fly that little thing would be like trying to cross the Atlantic in a Huey. A perfectly good aircraft built for a completely different purpose

[@camharkness]

Yeah, this video was pretty..... Bad imo. A lot of the plot holes aren't even plot holes if you actually just pay attention.

[@MunchKING]

@@stinkertonsden I hadn't played BioShock, but I guessed that was the answer.

[@ChristophBrinkmann]

​@@camharkness Yep, Marion definitely was always going to end up in Egypt. Perfect sense

[@carlsiouxfalls]

Between the death rate of those attempting the joining, the lack of knowledge on how to exactly make the Warden-making concoction, the lack of appropriate ingredients, etc. It seems like the Dragon Age inclusion on this particular list seems misplaced.

[@patriciaw636]

A lot of them seem to be, stupid decisions arent unexplainable plot holes

[@UniverseOfKain]

Eh... In the Quarry you find out that the kids were free because they never came home... ON PURPOSE. It's in the written lore stuff if you look around for it.

[@SlaveKnightGael1579]

There’s a much bigger plot hole in BioShock Infinite I’m surprised nobody touched on. In the Burial at Sea DLC it’s made clear the the booker in Rapture who is killed by Elizabeth is the last one in the entire multiverse. Yet later in the DLC you return to Columbia briefly, which shouldn’t even exist because there’s no longer any Comstocks to build it.

[@dmolmalowski]

Ugh, burial at sea was terrible and a mess imo. Just pretend it doesn't exist, it seems like they just wanted to throw in assets they didn't have time to include in the main game

[@martinsriber7760]

That would be true if she killed Comstock of that reality before he built Columbia.

[@SlaveKnightGael1579]

@@martinsriber7760 I haven’t played Infinite in years, but doesn’t she kill them before they turn into Comstock?

[@martinsriber7760]

@@SlaveKnightGael1579 If she did, why would she kill one in Rapture after he became Comstock?

[@ChristophBrinkmann]

Columbia happens in the early 20th century. Rapture another 30+ years after that

[@Silverheart575]

The oracle of ages is the textbook definition of the bootstrap paradox. Not really a plot hole. I'd say that it's probably sctually intentional

[@ChristophBrinkmann]

Well yeah it was intentional. They designed the game that way. Still a paradox and a plot hole

[@Bronzescorpion]

@@ChristophBrinkmann Not a plot hole. There is no error or inconsistency. The vase is a in a weird time loophole, but it fits with the logic presented in the story.

[@deadersurvival4716]

​@Bronzescorpion a paradox, by definition, is an inconsistency.

[@Bronzescorpion]

@@deadersurvival4716 firstly, no because there are different types of paradoxes, some only appear impossible, but aren't. Look it up if you don't believe me. Secondly, the inconsistency is in regard to the story/plot, which isn't the case here. Thirdly, the Bootstrap paradox problem isn't inconsistency, but a closed time loop.

[@PanEtRosa]

@@deadersurvival4716 it's a loop, not a breaking point.

[@Dream146]

Why don't they recruit more grey wardens? I imagine the 50% survival rate of the initiation or maybe the drastically reduced lifespan might have something to do with it but who's to say?

[@cyanimation1605]

Yeah but if there's a zombie apocalypse happening, any warrior worth a damn should be lining up to stop it in whatever way they can.

[@Veelofar]

Less than 50% survival rate. 2/3 died in your joining, and it was put on by Duncan, who’s done it before. Neither of the two remaining have done more than just participate. There isn’t even a guarantee that you’d even get 1 survivor out of any given ritual

[@spacejesus6581]

@@cyanimation1605so I’m guessing you’ve never played the game since the Wardens are named as guilty for killing the king at the start of the game, you and Alistair need to basically hide from the law for the entire game and try not to be public about being the biggest enemies to the nation Plus there’s the entire idea that as far as anyone knows there’s nothing that makes Grey Wardens special, they’re just dedicated to fighting Darkspawn, the whole ritual isn’t common knowledge and only the most powerful people know there’s a ritual at all, and they still don’t know what happens in it

[@wickedlysyckk]

@@cyanimation1605 The wardens had fallen out of favor even before they were betrayed and blacklisted. They got a bit too involved in local politics and even got banned from Ferelden for a while. Additionally, about 400 years had passed before the current blight and nearly everyone became complacent. The people really didn't see the need to join the wardens when they believed conventional warfare was enough.

[@Alsebra]

​@@cyanimation1605, with your character and Alistair being the only two surviving chapter members of the Grey Wardens and the circle mages either busy elsewhere or dead themselves, the drink that prospective Wardens have to contend with is almost impossible to replicate...this means that the survival rate of a slapdash potion would be nearly 100%.

[@DC_Prox]

The Zelda thing with the vase isn't a plot hole, it's a paradox. It's the same as the eyeglasses in the fourth Star Trek movie: Bones gives Kirk the glasses as a gift, then they travel to the past and Kirk sells the glasses because the crew needs money. The main reason I don't think it counts as a plot hole is that it isn't a mistake that got missed, the writers did it on purpose. A traditional plot hole is something that they missed, a mistake that results from someone not noticing a contradiction. I think the Zelda crew knew exactly what they were doing.

[@Mini_Squatch]

yeah its a self fulfilling paradox

[@TheRawrnstuff]

For sure, and "why Amy Rose is there" is also not a plot hole, it's just unexplained. She obviously lies about getting a ride from Tails, but that does not a plot hole make.

[@jamisonedwards8162]

Who's to say the glasses or vase were never replaced? Maybe someone broke the original and replaced the item with a copy.

[@DC_Prox]

@@jamisonedwards8162 if it makes you feel better to call it an apparent paradox or potential paradox or whatever, fine, but endless "what if?" hypotheticals like that make it nearly impossible to talk about fiction coherently, so maybe keep convoluted fan theories to a minimum; also keep in mind that possible doesn't mean likely.

[@jeremyjones935]

I feel like OX have done a video that included an explanation of the grandfather paradox, too. That said, it was probably a Luke bit.

[@reide96]

"We don't have camp. Or summer." Deep cut, Mike. Deep cut.

[@terradraca]

Dragon age: You do create more wardens in the expansion. So the obvious answer is "There wasn't time."

[@snorpenbass4196]

And also "didn't know the ritual or all the necessary ingredients."

[@Veelofar]

It’s also not a sure thing. They try to make 3 at the start and only 1 survives. No guarantee you’d get any out of a ritual concocted by two new people

[@dexblade9553]

Actually it was never a plot hole. There is book that kinda explains it. The Grey wardens were banished prior to the start. They were only recently allowed back in. Their numbers were monitored.

[@ChristophBrinkmann]

​@@dexblade9553 If a plot hole needs a book to explain it, it's still a plot hole

[@SaganTheKhajiit]

Also the whole being outlawed and persecuted by the then regent of the kingdom.

[@lnsflare1]

You know, Amy Rose being a G.U.N. plant *would* explain where she got the money for her groceries.

[@sarafontanini7051]

it would make her way more interesting as a character

[@michaelmanherz7918]

There’s another big plot hole in The Quarry. In the game they say that the summer camp ran for two months. Meaning that during the time camp was in session there was one full moon. One chapter even acknowledged this by showing what an imprisoned cursed person did that night. So my question is where were the campers and counselors during that full moon? Did the go on an overnight field trip? Were they sent back home for at least that night? They never acknowledge what happened at the camp that night.

[@snorpenbass4196]

Went on a trip to Transsylvania to hang out with the relatives? 😉🤣

[@EdwardBennetts]

Summer camps can take on multiple groups of guests in one summer season (after all, 2 months of summer camp would be a LONG trip away from home for kids that young), so I imagine that the full moon is when they switched the groups. As for the campers? I imagine Chris Hackett just locked himself in the storm shelter so nobody could hear him. In the prologue, Laura and Max's discovery of him shows that he generally keeps quiet down there. When it comes to the second group leaving, Chris is more annoyed by the campers not having left yet because he only mentally prepares for one night of that kind of risk a year, and because he's worried that something's gone wrong because his brother isn't responding to phone calls. Idk. That's the best I can come up with.

[@PazuzuDeamon4horsemen]

You are correct ​@@EdwardBennetts

[@jardex2275]

They mention that it was between sessions, I believe. All the kids had already gone home, and the counselors were somewhere else.

[@skalty9868]

Summer camps usually run in 1 to 2 week sessions, with mostly new campers each time. So I imagine it could’ve happened between sessions

[@HonestMagpie]

Did they acknowledge the massive plothole of Arkham Knight in the first one, where the Arkham Knight "Knows Batman SO well" but all of his tanks, which are meant to kill Batman, are unmanned? Put literally any living creature in them and Batman can't blow them up, so why is the Arkham Knight leaving them all unmanned? This has always annoyed the hell out of me.

[@andrewbyrne2173]

I think it was more a case of getting more drones v manned vehicles. Plus there would be an issue of getting enough trained personnel to man all the tanks. It’s going to be difficult to get a lot of ex military to commit an act of terrorism, especially if it’s against their own country, even if you did offer an insane amount of money. Plus they would be going up against Batman.

[@bulletkiller0689]

He'd just magic bullet the cockpit with some tech that incapacitates the driver or smthn no doubt. Now tying hostages to the drones? there's some meat to that plan.

[@nicknumber1512]

@@bulletkiller0689 Rubber RPGs. Honest.

[@nashvontookus7451]

Arkham Knight mans a tank near the end and Batman manages to blow it up while still saving him

[@MikayaAkyo]

@@andrewbyrne2173 Honestly, don't need trained Military Personell to do it. The Tanks are unmanned, which means they have to be remote controlled or actually fully automatic. Meaning that the Arkham Knight could've put any idiot crazy enough to face Batman (he clearly found enough people) inside and told them not to touch anything.

[@joshuareesor1756]

Amy did have some sneaking skills and stealth gameplay in Adventure 1, so maybe she just tapped into her inner Solid Snake and snuck onto the island (presumably on a GUN vehicle).

[@Minilena]

Ooh Oracle of Ages isn't a game you see every week in the spoiler list! My first ever Zelda game ❤

[@zachtwilightwindwaker596]

It's also my first.

[@Mad_Possum]

I like how everyone has their own entry point for Zelda games mine was twilight princess

[@tatltails3923]

It's the only one I still haven't played, lol

[@zachtwilightwindwaker596]

@@tatltails3923 It's a really good one.

[@YoungAce904]

I always do an involuntary double take whenever the intro goes long enough to get to those extra piano notes

[@glitchkrieg768]

Did y'all forget that most people die when subjected to drinking darkspawn blood? The Grey Wardens didn't just take anybody, for good reason. Only those that were willing and had already proved themselves capable, or those that had already forfeited their lives. More than half of all new recruits die during the joining. This isn't a plot hole, it's a very intrinsic part of the story.

[@glitchkrieg768]

To put a finer point on it, if even only half of the people were to die from trying to become a Grey Warden, an army of 10,000 soldiers seems to me to be a far greater prospect than 5,000 Grey Wardens surrounded by 5,000 corpses of their brethren.

[@glitchkrieg768]

Not to mention the fact that becoming a Grey Warden is quite literally a death sentence. No one lives for more than a few years, a decade at most, after joining the order.

[@carlsiouxfalls]

Yeah, that seems like a convenient omission to make it onto this list.

[@daviddaugherty2816]

Not only that, but neither you nor Alistair actually know how to _do_ the Joining. It's more complicated than shown, as Alistair even mentions if asked.

[@mitrovarr]

​@glitchkrieg768 not to mention that people tend to freak out and panic when they see someone die during the joining, as in the tutorial section.

[@stephenadams8712]

3:37 "or summer" so true Mike

[@Ravenite456]

The Dragon Age one is explicitly explained in game. It's like the first video of this where the very first plot hole brought up had Andy explain why it wasn't a plot hole.

[@joffcallaghan]

Tbf, the girlfriend in Double Dragon 2 is called Marian where as the girlfriend in Double Dragon 3 is called Marion. So they're either dating a new person with a very similar name, or we've got a Simpsons 'Snowball II' situation at play.

[@danielcook7975]

Different translation of name, also they are wrong it is actually revealed in DD2 that Marion actually survived her supposed death At least from what I read of devs confirming such but it could have changed

[@zachtwilightwindwaker596]

@@danielcook7975 So the second game isn't the last one in the timeline?

[@alexpage4355]

Considering that's the same game with the infamous "Bimmy & Jimmy" typo when starting a two-player game, I'd put money one bad translation/lousy proof-reading, rather than plot holes

[@TheBlackSeraph]

Or "Catherine"/"Katherine" situation. Ew.

[@jakefaircloth9618]

For the Rambo plot hole, if you think the US Government wouldn't release a dangerous individual who did horrible crimes just because they want them to do something for the gov., then you don't know the US Government. Two words: Operation Paperclip

[@alalalala57]

No one in Operation Paperclip were serial-murdering psychopaths.

[@Burkhart4192]

The difference there is that the Nazi scientists didn't commit crimes in America (which is a copout justification but valid under the law) and that they were hardly going to start Auschwitz 2.0 inside NASA while Rambo is extremely likely to go on another killing spree. Also, one of the scientists who was accused of conducting human experiments, was sent back to West Germany for the Dora trial.

[@dracon204]

I remember most of these... didn't see anyone mention Double Dragon in the comments. So, the Marion Death is retconned in the NES and PC Versions, but only if you beat the hardest difficulty. She comes back to life, lol.

[@glazed32]

I love bio shock infinite hits the feels and the sound design is ear candy! it’s hella confusing but still really fucking good!

[@SolaScientia]

It's one of my favorite games ever still. The ending is one of my favorites of any game. However, I despise the alarm that sounds when an airship is going down. I hate it so much I actually flinched back from my laptop as soon I heard it in the clip, brief as it was.

[@dmolmalowski]

@@glazed32 It's a wild ride from start to finish.

[@cassiopeiawarrener9654]

An interesting if unimportant note; the creepy prison basement probably has red light because many animals can't see red. I don't know if that's necessarily the case for werewolves, but if so, it probably keeps the detainees docile if they react aggressively to lights being turned on. Alternatively, it hides the blood (it's also, let's be honest, for the creepy factor).

[@Richforce1]

1: It was also to get the Vox Populi off his back, because not only would he have an airship, but the Vox also wouldn't have one to chase him with. 2: if they locked themselves in, what's to keep them from unlocking themselves out? 3: I think it had more to do with finding suitable candidates, most of those that might be acceptable are either dead, evil, or insane; sometimes all three. 6: Amy just swam in knowing where Sonic was instinctively, and Piko Piko hammered any poor schlubs who tried to arrest her.

[@KeithElliott-zd8cx]

2. Are the werewolves smart? Or just, timed electric locks. Don't open till dawn. 6, it's not even a plot hole. It's just missing info. Plus isn't she close to eggman? Or just, isn't impossible to grab a boat?

[@recurvestickerdragon]

would have loved to see you delve more into the reasons behind these, such as asking a dev about the airship scene, or speculating as to how the Hackett twins threw off their father's control. would feel a lot more genuine and informative than just saying "see isn't this bad and wrong?"

[@recurvestickerdragon]

also, bootstrap paradoxes are not plot holes, especially when they're _intentionally_ pointed out as thought-provoking oddities.

[@archellothewolf2083]

Hang on. I wanna cover the Dragon Age one, because if my memory serves, it's not actually a plot hole. Also I'm a nerd with nothing better to do than write an essay about one of my favorite videogames in the comment section of every KZbin video that mentions it. 1- Simply put, you need a magic ritual to prepare the tainted blood so it can be "safely" imbibed by a potential warden. This is a secret ritual from an incredibly secretive order, and would only be known to high ranking Grey Wardens or a maybe a few select Circle mages. Most of those people died in Ostegar or during the demon invasion at The Tower. Simply put, without the ritual, the darkspawn taint will just poison whoever drinks it. No Ritual = no Grey Wardens. 2- The reason Riordan (the third Grey Warden) was in Fereldan was because he snuck over the boarder to see what heppened to the Fereldan Wardens. The wardens knew there was a lot of darkspawn activity in southern Fereldan but then suddenly stopped hearing from the Fereldan Wardens (because they'd been wiped out). When they went to do their duty and check what was going on, they were turned away at the border because Logain, Hero of Fereldan, had claimed the Grey Wardens had betrayed the king and gotten him killed and had declared ALL Grey Wardens criminals and exiles. 3- I can't remember if it was a codex or if it was mentioned in a quest during the Awakening DLC but the Grey Wardens DO keep a small stockpile of already prepared falactaries with darkspawn blood that had already gone through the ritual just in case of emergencies. That said, it should be mentioned again that the Grey Wardens are an incredibly secretive order and don't tell these things to their new recruits. Ridoran was a senior warden, having joined the same time that Duncan did, which is why he knew where such a stockpile would be, and how he knew why a Grey Warden has to be the one to slay an Archdemon. In summery as to why they couldn't make more Grey Wardens: The ability to make the Grey Warden secret sauce is more secret than the Krabby Patty formula. Everybody in the country who knows that secret is currently dead. Everybody outside the country who knows the secret is immediately imprisoned and/or executed on entry. And the VERY limited supply of secret sauce that's ready for use is kept in a secret stash whoes location is only known by the afore mentioned dead people. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. Love youyr guys' content.

[@dawnmcauley6411]

The ritual is to enrich regular darkspawn blood's potency. The Joining is essentially immunization, ingest a massive amount of amount of taint and either gain (temporary) immunity or die. Even then, enriched darkspawn blood isn't enough on it's own, Archdemon blood is actually necessary (a small amount is added by the senior warden during the Joining.) Riordan does know this (and is even willing to tell the Warden if asked at Eamon's estate) but the Ferelden Grey Warden vault is under lockdown and by the time Loghain is dealt with, there isn't time to prepare more darkspawn blood.

[@Kafaldsbylur]

IIRC also, Grey Wardens aren't *that* much better at fighting Darkspawn than regular soldiers. Obviously you need at least one to finish off the Archdemon, but aside from that, all they really get is Darkspawn radar and resistance to the Taint. 100 soldiers will do more good against the Blights than 25 Grey Wardens (apparently, the survival rate is stated to be ~1/4 in the RPG books)

[@archellothewolf2083]

@@Kafaldsbylur I think they're not better warriors than the adverage person on an individual level but they are better specifically at fighting darkspawn. Mostly because they can detect dark spawn and thus prepare for ambushes or avoid large groups, allowing them to pick their fights more effectively. And more senior Grey Wardens simply have more expereince fighting them. Like, someone who hunts deer is going to be better at hunting deer than his buddy who's only hunted quail before.

[@RedTail1-1]

You wasted your time writing all that nonsense... A dozen other people had already wrote the same crap. They just didn't take a college essay to do it.

[@Enkeria]

If someone havent told you guys for a while. I adore and love your cheeky videos. It gives a smile on my face listening and seeing much of what you guys make. It makes my days sometimes, as today. Even though Im a bit late to the party, it was yet another great video. Keep it up guys! And have a wonderful weekend.

[@terryechoes3192]

At the end of Double Dragon II for the NES, Marion is resurrected by an angel.

[@ApetureTestSubject]

The only way the Goron Vase paradox thing makes sense is if, in the intervening centuries, someone accidentally smashed the vase and made a new identical one, passing it off as the original. If not, that's just the same vase going round and round in time infinitely, getting infinitely older while having no origin.

[@canisarcani]

then that still leaves the question of where the original unbroken one came from. its still a paradox.

[@ApetureTestSubject]

@@canisarcani Wouldn't the original one be the one that got made to replace the broken original, which then went back and became the original and got broken? God, this stuff's confusing. But certainly, it's still a logical Bootstraps Paradox on why there's even a vase to begin with. But at least there isn't an infinitely aging vase going round and around through time, getting older and older but still only going through the same few centuries repeatedly, being constantly the same age and somehow older than it was the same moment ago because the loop is infinite. ...Again, confusing.

[@madmanwithaplan1826]

I mean for the Quarry it's kind of obvious why they're out there in the middle of the woods they're hunting for Wolf boy. And they're hoping to use Kaylee and Caleb's werewolf senses to track him down. Also I think the cages are a new addition since somebody got infected and they decided that they needed something more preventative then chaining them up in the basement.

[@ParaNoid816]

I crashed snowboarding once, and came down taint-first right onto the binding. Taint injuries are no joke.

[@owen1079]

I'm just glad you managed to put the w(hole) thing behind you...

[@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00]

Well, *you* obviously haven't mastered your taint yet.

[@catoninetales]

My theory? Amy Rose is a monomaniacal psychopath for Sonic and committed a massive crime, turned herself in, got her sent to the island as a prisoner, broke out herself, then acted all innocent in front of Tails. Sounds like a legend, honestly. The new Joker movie should have been about *her*

[@ryangale3757]

15:54 Come on Mike, if you want to know what Amy Rose's game is, why not just ask her distant relative Ellen? That's how last names work, right?

[@gameguider321GO]

I see Outside Xbox upload, I consider. I see Sonic on the thumbnail, I click. I watch, I am satisfied.

[@MarvinPowell1]

I always assumed the one airship didn't have enough fuel or the proper coordinates to make to New York. It'd be like choosing to either steal an SUV or stealing a Ford Pinto. And in Double Dragon II, that was clearly _Marian_ with two A's. Apparently, they're twins and only one Marian died in the second game, but _Marion_ with an O, is the one from the third game!

[@razgriz821]

Disappointed you put dragon age here when it was explained why we couldnt make more wardens. Disappointed more that Jane didnt fact check this, being a dragon age fan herself.

[@dmolmalowski]

Im not sure that the specific air ship in this scene would have been correct for the journey. The one they were after looked like it was capable of sufficent sppeds

[@Bananapeels-Make-Great-Skates]

I always figured in bioshock the second airship is only for flying around columbia. It doesn't have the nifty auto go-anywhere-in-the-world function of the First Lady, that normal airships certainly never come eqquipped with.

[@ArchHippy]

I think the biggest plothole in Bioshock Infinite was when, in order to deliver guns, Booker takes a one-way trip to a parallel universe where that person already has guns. Who exactly is going to reward him? The one who DIDN'T make the deal, or the one who is in ANOTHER UNIVERSE, and DOESN'T have the guns?

[@Rich-fr2yv]

The BioShock one could pretty easily be explained as a range issue. The original ship could be suitable for intercontinental travel, and the gunship isn't. The game says nothing about it, but it could

[@notroxa]

plus, the first lady was clearly designed to be used by a single person the warship had an entire crew of people flying it its not a stretch to assume the warship *couldnt* be flown by one man who has no knowledge of how to fly an airship

[@undeadgentalmen]

Hmm, as I recall with the Greywarden's oath and cocktail blend is one of those important ingredients for the drink is an archdemon blood which was very rare/limited. After slaying the archdemon they could make new wardens in the DLC.

[@TransDragon]

The Grey Warden thing is 1 because it's a terrible fate becoming a Grey Warden because they always die early whether killed trying to stop the darkspawn or being called into the deep roads and 2 because most people are killed from the joining ritual, only a few can survive it.

[@Crossyonthetube]

I love that 'Normal Adult...' is just now a phrase in the Oxbox extended universe 😂

[@aliteralmoth2243]

19:00 you see it's a different girl named Marion. He only dates girls named that.

[@Jeremiah12thLvlGeek]

I love the emphasis Jane added to, "Master their taint!"

[@vikiai4241]

The literal spit-take was a nice touch, too.

[@Herowebcomics]

...Yeah! How DID Amy get on prison island?! Tail's mechsuit has only one seat! ...Maybe she hammer vaulted?😅

[@princeblackelf4265]

She held onto the wing

[@Wright805]

@@princeblackelf4265 Except that she clearly got there ahead of Tails since he sees her being threatened by Robotnik while he's still approaching the island.

[@1003JustinLaw]

Video promised: hand selected by Luke about genius loopholes for game puzzles Video that popped up for me: games you can’t play anymore because lawyers

[@MarceldeJong]

Luke? Who's Luke? Ain't no Luke here. You mean Andy But yeah, same.

[@Spygon]

Its a Plothole?

[@DarkDesperado25]

How about a list of inexplicably powerful weapons, like Lincoln's Repeater from Fallout 3. Where a rifle from the 1800s manages to compete with not only more modern firearms but also laser and plasma weapons. I guess that's the power of 'Murica

[@noahivanchavezespinosa3568]

Now I can't hear Andy say 'mummy' or ' Cleopatra' without thinking about the "Under Wraps" Disney film.

[@joshrosario1269]

The thing that always gets me about the grey wardens is that the main reason they're made is that they can fight darkspawn without going insane or turning into monsters from the blood, but everyone else seems to fight darkspawn completely fine getting completely covered in darkspawn blood so why even make them drink the blood aside from sensing darkspawn which is frankly a vague power that never came in use

[@frostguard1283]

Only a warden can kill the archdemon of the spawn. But wardens are also highly specialized warriors.

[@joshrosario1269]

@@frostguard1283 okay but that means you can have only one person do the joining every generation which is frankly better, and i dunno man over half the party in DA1 wasn't a grey warden and they seemed pretty amazing at killing darkspawn, and in DA2 though a lot less there was still definitely darkspawn and they still definitely were amazing at killing them

[@tsnap4]

When it comes to Dragon Age: Origins: Duncan does mention that Circle Mages had been prepping the ritual, possibly implying that additional prep work was needed beyond just drinking darkspawn blood. In addition, I seem to recall the Grey Wardens being labelled as traitors by Logain as supposedly "let the king die" or some such nonsense, meaning Alistair, even if he knew how to do the ritual couldn't really set up a recruiting booth.

[@seraphonica]

Mike, really? "Why was Marion in a coffin?" followed by "Marion canonically died!" I think you're missing the forest for the trees, here...

[@MrAuthor3DS]

That still begs the question how her corpse was put into a chamber that was still sealed for millennia.

[@rogerskinner6320]

The grey warden thing. Believe the point is to die killing the big bad so it’s always a death sentence, either when you transform or when you accomplish your deed.

[@lordbucketgod8786]

any video with jane its a good video

[@terencedigan3932]

This would be a fun list: Plot Holes That Just Make The Game More Fun.

[@Lumias7]

When I saw Dragon age origins I thought it was going to be why did the grey wardens and kings forces not use the ramparts to give themselves a huge advantage instead of going up against A much larger force with no defensive structures. They flat out didn't have the arch demon blood or recipe to make more wardens.

[@armelior4610]

I'm guessing the king's tactical acumen comes from movies : frontal charge is the only way 😄

[@spacejesus6581]

@@armelior4610the plan was for Cailen’s small force to charge up front and make the darkspawn overextend and be cocky, and then Loghain’s much larger force would charge from the flank and catch the darkspawn by surprise But King Cailen insisted on fighting on the field like a moron, the darkspawn took the signal tower so Loghain’s signal was too late, and Loghain retreated instead of charging allowing the king to die

[@kilomillensimus9379]

I noticed this even as a kid. There is no official explanation, which is bad. A good fan explanation is that Cailan overextended himself to be in the vanguard and get some glory, and Loghain let him. Guess we're left to wonder.

[@Senkoau]

@@kilomillensimus9379 Wait, what? I'm sure I saw an explanation when playing. It may not be the best explanation but it was there. Loghain and Callan's father saved the country when young by defeating an invasion (or driving off an occupying force, can't quite recall which its been so long) covering themselves in fame and glory Callan idolizes Loghain, believes Duncan but doesn't think the threat is that large and see's it as the perfect chance to prove his own worth as King. He will fight alongside Gray Wardens against the blight saving his kingdom and thus covering himself in glory. The plan could have actually worked if Loghain hadn't believed the "blight" was just a story Duncan was making up for his own power and double crossed them leaving them to their deaths so he could take control of the country. Essentially wealthy and powerful young man with an inferiority complex due to his father and surrograte father being national heroes seeing a chance to prove himself to his surrogate father and earn the praise of his people.

[@Senkoau]

@@spacejesus6581 The signal fire wasn't too late, Loghain if he'd charged as he was meant to could have saved the king and Duncan. Though stopping the Darkspawn is more debatable they could have pulled back and kept those two at least alive. Its why his aide asks about the king. Also its a bit harsh to call Callan a moran this is kind of during the era of leaders leading from the front and the plan was sound barring betrayal.

[@Zoso14892]

Jane I know it was a bit for KZbin, but I don't feel so childish because that's exactly how I reacted to the "taint" line.

[@tildessmoo]

I'm not from England myself, but I've heard tell that someone has actually discovered summer in Cornwall.

[@rorythomas9469]

We are discovering summer at an increasingly fast rate

[@pdonettes]

I always find it funny in Skyrim when you enter these places that have been sealed since the dragons were alive, (which predates the empire) and find septims, books or weapons that are current. Like... how did they get in there?

[@VonBlade]

7:27 I was genuinely concerned there. A1 acting Miss Douglas. Next year you won't just be presenting BAFTAs, you'll be receiving one.

[@caliburn1123]

7:45 not really, because Riodarn explains that you don't just need darkspawn blood to make the potion you need lyrium and a drop of archdemon blood too. Which neither Alistair nor our warden had.

[@whyareyoulikethis2819]

We do get access to it after the Landsmeet....but given 2/3 of our warden class died in the joining, the archdemon is literally upon us and we now know the taint is a delayed death sentence it makes total sense we wouldn't try to make more at that moment.

[@burnin8able]

I feel like a bigger plot hole in Sonic Adventure 2 is how the hell anyone could ever possibly mistake Sonic for Shadow in the first place.

[@gothicbutterfly013]

The original stuff happened at night so all they knew was super fast hedgehog, which at the time consisted solely of Sonic. Plus, Sonic has been known to have changed colours before.

[@johnoneil9188]

I really love that Marion, so fed up with getting beat up and/or shot, trained so much that by the time of River City Girls she is probably fittrer than any of the boys and, when you play her, now a grappler character.

[@rosiefletcher]

Genuinely impressive that this whole episode isn’t just Bioshock Infinite, that is more hole than plot

[@rosiefletcher]

why doesn’t Elizabeth know she’s Comstock’s daughter if she’s being groomed to be his heir why does the device age Comstock but not the Luteces

[@dmolmalowski]

​@@rosiefletcherNot all follow up rulers are necessarily related. The information at her disposal was limited. As for the brother and sister can we be sure it didn't, we don't have a control non affected version to observe.

[@hollyswoods]

An infinite amount of holes

[@LivingGuy484]

Especially when you use image search 👀

[@dmolmalowski]

Also If they didn't destroy that airship in the battle isnt likely it could have been taken over again by pro comstock troops?

[@edaraujo2169]

There is a plot hole on the in the mass effect trillogy. At the first scene of the Illusive Man in ME2 you can see Miranda phisically in the space station with him. Not a cline or a hologram, literally her in person. Then in ME3 considering Miranda survive the suicide mission she knows the location of that stationary spacestation (judgung by the same sun behind the station in all the games). Why she didn't tell us the location of that base and had us figure it out by tracking Kai Leng all the way back to the Illusive Man's headquarters?

[@NivMizzet89]

That's easily explainable, there's plenty of ways the Illusive Man could've arranged for her visit without letting her know the location. Most obvious one is simply having any ship pick her up and simply don't show her the travel coordinates.

[@spacejesus6581]

Out of all the massive plot holes in the trilogy, you pick the one that’s explained in game as The Illusive Man having multiple facilities Seriously the trilogy is packed with too many giant plot holes to count and that’s the one you go with? Not the conduit making no sense, not the arrival dlc ignoring rules already made and making no timeline sense, not the Geth (specifically Legion) completely changing what they want in life between ME2 and ME3, not the Reapers being a hive mind retcon, not the main Reaper AI being in the Citadel all along…

[@Wordweaver166]

The Hackett family's basement is lit red because the family is colourblind like all dogs, and didn't even notice they accidentally bought the wrong bulbs in bulk...

[@notmousse]

New York *is* that bad.

[@cronft]

the goron vase is basically a time loop, basically that vase is eternally returning back to that era because once it reachs the age where link picks it up, it returns to the past, like with all time loops, it has no start and no end, and in this case, the vase has no "creator" since it "magically" appears in the past sudenly from the future

[@marauderdz]

You literally just described a bootstrap paradox.

[@Ryu_D]

I have a potential solution for the goron vase paradox. Presumably, the goron in the past would have commissioned an heirloom, since he was interested in getting one anyway. You just happened to bring one from the future, causing a sort of temporal zigzag, leading to a timeline where he already had it. It then turns back into a loop until the vase breaks down, at which point the goron who has it at the time presumably commissions and identical vase, and passes that down, leading to a sort of time spiral (either that, or it zigzags back and forth to the same couple of timelines. Either way, it works just fine).

[@crafterofdoom]

how about: that vase came from the future, Link traded it for some Goronade. its just a simple time paradox, not a plothole, we can surmise the entire history of the object.

[@caffeinateddice1652]

Jane, you could be the person who doesn't pay attention to the film and asks obnoxious questions and I'd still watch movies with you

[@cphtfluke7565]

Wasn't Amy following Shadow from a distance, thinking he was Sonic?

[@MystLunarabne]

13:24 Actually there is a fairly simple solution for that, one of the ancestors could've accidentally broken the vase and then went to purchase a replacement and coincidentally found a merchant selling a vase that looks almost identical.

[@AccidentalNinja]

Another problem with Dragon Age: Origins' lack of Grey Wardens: in the dwarf royal backstory, you can have a son. In the time between that night & whenever you return, the son is born, which is at least nine months, assuming that dwarf gestation is the same as human gestation. That's enough time to send word to Grey Wardens in other lands & get more in to deal with the new Blight.

[@cyanimation1605]

That's only assuming Orzammar is the first thing you tackle once you can. I think canonically it would be one of the last treaty quests because you're very strongly urged to do Redcliffe first, which directly leads into The Urn of Sacred Ashes, and then the Circle of Magi quest which gets you to the halfway point of the game right there. 2. I want to say the timeframe from Ostagar to The Landsmeet is stated to be about a year, and I'm fairly certain Varric says a year passes between DA2's prologue and Act 1, and the Blight has subsided and Anders, Bodhan, and Sandal are already in Kirkwall so Awakening and even Witch Hunt are over (since Sandal was in Ferelden for Witch Hunt). so from the offscreen attack on Lothering right after you visit it to the end of even Witch Hunt is a timeframe close enough to 1 year that Varric rounds down, AND you have to account for the stated 6 month gap between Origins and Awakening, so Awakening, Amgarrak, and Witch Hunt must happen pretty quick. So if Ostagar to Denerim is 1 year, Denerim to Awakening is 6 months, and mixed in there, Lothering to well past the end of Awakening is 1 year, most of that 9 months would've taken place during Ostagar/Flemeth's hut/Lothering/Whatever else you do before Orzammar. So no, I don't think that's enough time to get word out around the world that the Wardens need backup. My brain hurts and this timeline doesn't make sense.

[@DivineNaruto]

They were literally banned until very recently and the only other wardens were from orlais, the same place loghain had banned from entering ferelden.

[@armelior4610]

I think it's said at some point (by Riordan ?) there is a group of Orlesian wardens ready to come but they're stuck at the frontier as long as Loghain is in charge

[@spacejesus6581]

The entire game takes place over a single year and some quests act like it’s been 9 months while others act like it’s been 2 weeks The reason wardens don’t show up is because there were thousands of elite soldiers and hundreds of wardens at the Ferelden border, but Loghain turned them away and made them leave, in response the grey wardens across the world simply wrote off Ferelden as a lost cause and prepared their defenses for when the blight came their way What you just said isn’t a plot hole at all, it’s intentionally part of the plot to show how Loghain is a power mad narcissistic coward and how the Wardens elsewhere are very pragmatic

[@qwertyPrime1990]

The wardens literally say in dragon age origins that it is a coin toss if you survive drinking the blood. Alastair says he was the only one to survive his joining out of however many tried joining along with him.

[@joemomma3648]

Don't let Jane read this one, but: Life Is Strange! Chloe is a troubled, ostracised teenage girl who'd been abused by scumbag Nathan Prescott. Because of this she suffers an untimely death until her friend Max Caulfield uses time powers to save her! But this unbalances powerful supernatural forces and it results in the apocalypse. Alternatively; Kate is a troubled, ostracised teenage girl who'd been abused by scumbag Nathan Prescott. Because of this she suffers an untimely death but her friend Max Caulfield can use time powers to save her! However this unbalances powerful supernatural forces and it results in... nothing. Absolutely nothing supernatural changes regardless of how episode 2 ends. Chloe is important enough to end the world. Kate doesn't even get a footnote. I guess it might not be a plothole if you follow the implication that there's an unspoken universal caste system where some lives are just inherently more valuable than others but that... is super gross. Actually thinking of Kate as a genuine person in the scope of the narrative has absolutely *ruined* the game for me.

[@shadowwar2580]

I always explained that with either the strong bond Chloe and Max have had for years or that since you save Kate early in the game these supernatural occurances are getting stronger and stronger every time Max uses her powers (which is why she stopped using them in the end IIRC). But what bothered me however is that you only have a choice between a "bad ending" and a "very bad ending". Does Arcadia Bay have no sirens alarm system? Can't they just break into say the fire station or where it might be located and activate it to, I dunno, warn the whole town if you decide to save Chloe? I also have a hard time believing that nobody else saw or felt that huge tornado coming.

[@FantasticBlueGirl]

Doesn’t Max rewind time while Kate is still in mid-air? Chloe’s already been shot before Max rewinds, so maybe that’s the issue?

[@KeithElliott-zd8cx]

or maybe one girl's death means something supernaturally the other's doesn't. Doesn't imply some caste system that baby hitler's death means more temporal upheaval than a farmer's kid who would've died at 14. Also... Was shit already on the way to being fucked eventually, before the second girl got saved? I mean, a time calamity you don't eventually see might be possible. Or even, fate. Maybe kate wasn't destined to die till shit got changed. Or, she didn't care enough about kate for there to be some cosmic backlash.

[@marauderdz]

The difference is that attempting to save Chloe is what initiated the time manipulation powers in the first place. This is what begins the chain of events that will ultimately result in the supernatural storm. The issue is that Max needs to undo the original alteration: that of preventing Chloe's murder. Helping or not helping Kate makes no difference because it's not the trigger event.

[@Fools_Requiem]

A problem in Bioshock is the giant mechanical bird that would make it nearly impossible to escape.

[@relicking9207]

Amy could've also just been arrested like Sonic was, she just broke out, was trying to figure out a way off when she got attacked by Eggman and realized Sonic was present somewhere.

[@Wright805]

But then why doesn't she say that?

[@relicking9207]

@@Wright805 Because she's supposed to be one of the "Good Guys" I doubt she'd admit to the others that she was arrested

[@michaelt482]

During the Grey Warden Joining ritual you need more than just darkspawn blood. You also need a drop of archdemon blood, which you don’t have

[@varunchaturvedi2581]

Ooh, the final boss of the Elden Ring DLC Shadow of the Erdtree is a giant plothole too! It makes no sense at all with the established lore of the base game and just seems a shoehorned attempt at bringing back a popular character. Obviously all Fromsoft games have convoluted lore but I'll try my best to explain concisely why - basically the game at the end claims there was some vow between Radahn and Miquella, and it involved the former becoming the latter's consort after the latter's ascent to godhood. It is also revealed that the climactic clash between Radahn and Malenia was to facilitate said vow - by dying, Radahn's soul could be revived by Miquella in the spirit world to suit his needs. But the problem is, the vow makes zero sense. If Radahn didn't consent to the vow, why would Miquella not just use his extremely well-documented powers of enchantment rather than waste his sister's army? And if he did consent...why fight at all? And why near Sellia of all places, which Radahn is specifically stated to want to protect? And it gets worse! An NPC reveals to you that she was personally healed by Miquella himself at Caelid after the war. Which means...Miquella was right there when his sister lay broken and defeated after the battle, and ignored her to instead heal some rando? AND ALSO IGNORED RADAHN, THE ENTIRE REASON THE WAR WAS FOUGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE? I don't know man, FromSoft lore is often vague, but rarely this nonsensical. Even leaving aside the story issues, it makes no thematic sense - especially the actions of Miquella, supposedly the focal character of the DLC. Which stings more since this is probably the last Elden Ring content we'll ever get.

[@gothicbutterfly013]

Radahn is Carian Royalty. Carian Royalty has thier fate tied to the movement of the stars. Radahn *halted* the movement of the stars, and they would only resume thier movement upon his death. Miquella's best shot at killing Radahn just achieved a draw, he had to wait to continue his plan. Plus, with his ritual using Mohg's body and Radahn's soul, Radahn can't resist his control anymore, which is rather necessary since Radahn is resistant.

[@varunchaturvedi2581]

@gothicbutterfly013 But why do the stars affect Miquella's enchantment? I suppose one could say "oh it's just not his fate to be Miquella's consort right now", but... fate is such a vague thing - was it instead his fate to be rot-nuked by Malenia? To be slain by us? Those sure weren't stopped by the stars halting. It also doesn't make any sense for the genius Miquella's plan to completely rely on the arrival of some random Tarnished ages later for Radahn and Mohg to die (to the extent of deliberately ignoring a severely weakened Radahn at Caelid). Technically possible, I guess, but utterly illogical given the prodigy he's supposed to be.

[@Dorma_]

​​​​@@varunchaturvedi2581 I think you're assuming that Miquella as more agency, power and intelligence than he really has, and calling out a plot hole because Miquella didn't play things perfectly. I'm not an expert but I think this is how things played out: Radahn prevented his fate (vow to Miquella) by halting the stars. Miquella isn't strong enough to mess with him here. Miquella sends Melania to kill/subdue Radahn, but she fails. (There's stuff about Miquella trying and then giving up on healing Melania which isn't important). Miquella gets captured by Mohg or controls him, and ends up in the egg. Radahn and Mohg are killed by the tarnished, luckily for Miquella. So, Miquella takes Mohg's body to put Radahn's soul into it to control him as a consort. While also ascending to godhood after discarding aspects of himself. That all makes sense to me, even if I'm misunderstanding some stuff.

[@varunchaturvedi2581]

@@Dorma_ I think saying that he didn't play things perfectly is an understatement 😅 What stopped him from charming Radahn before he conquered the stars to halt his fate, for instance? That question is only even relevant if we make the big assumption that the stars have any interaction with his powers of enchantment, in which case [see above response to another user] Why did he not help Finlay take his sister back to the Haligtree, when he cared so much for her that it was solely due to his failure at curing her Rot that he abandoned the Golden Order? Why ignore her and his unwilling consort completely in favour of helping a random NPC? Why wait for someone else to kill Radahn an age later? The egg is where Miquella originally was, at the base of the Haligtree. Ansbach reveals he charmed Mohg, which is why Mohg carried him and his egg to where he is now. But...why bother with the Haligtree at all? Why deliberately sabotage your own efforts this way? Mohg is slain by us, which fulfills Miquella's plan. But why is THAT Miquella's plan at all? What was he doing all this time? Why not immediately kill Mohg (or have someone else do it) if his death is all that's needed? What does him being alive for long enough in order to bring Miquella to Mohgwyn Palace and stay there awhile doing nothing achieve? It's not just all that - it's that the entire tragedy of Miquella discarding St. Trina is no tragedy at all, if Radahn rejected the initial vow. If he was a loving, benevolent demigod before arriving at the Land of Shadow, why would he carelessly sacrifice a whole army? For a cause he then... postpones indefinitely until your arrival? Add onto that the utter one-dimensionness of his character in the actual fight and I really just do not know what the writers were thinking here.

[@Dorma_]

@@varunchaturvedi2581 Ok, firstly, you're still making a lot of assumptions, especially since we're meant to be in the dark for a lot of things to keep up the intrigue and mystery. However, there are so many possibilities that work if you don't assume plot holes. Radahn could've been too strong for Miquella to directly charm or take down, but he still needed to stop his fate, so stopped the stars. Even when rotted, Radahn was still tough and we only fight Miquella when he's a god and with Radahn's help, so without his sister, Miquella was probably pretty weak. Why wait? Maybe he had no choice or knew Radahn would die from the rot eventually. He abandoned his sister in the haligtree, and maybe just gave up on her after she failed to kill Radahn. Abandoning the golden order (which happened before, as Melania has unalloyed gold prosthetics) could've been because of it's weakness, not because he cared so much about his sister. Like using unalloyed gold could've just been better and actually helped. Also, who was the npc that claimed to be healed by Miquella? I can't find anything on them. I didn't think he was in Caelid at the time. Maybe Miquella's plans for the Haligtree changed (he already failed or realised it wasn't good enough or knew he'd have to give it up to be a gid anyway) or maybe Miquella didn't actually charm Mogh (characters can be wrong or lie). I'd guess the former. Mohg is strong. Maybe Miquella thought Melania died in Caelid so had no-one strong enough. Maybe he planned for Melania to kill Mogh, but her defeat ruined things, leading to Miquella being trapped with him (his charm working too well). Maybe he'd tasked Leda and the others to kill Mogh and Radahn (maybe they had a long way to travel and search) and the tarnished just got there before them. Maybe Miquella needed time in that cocoon to prepare himself to ascend to godhood. It's been implied that Miquella was always sketchy. Like items talking about compelled affection and stuff. St Trina is implied to be his love, which awful people can still have. Losing that would make him a real monster. Also, Radahn probably didn't reject the vow initially, just changed his mind later in life, else otherwise it wouldn't hold any weight. Postponing a plan probably isn't that bad for an ageless demigod. And, as I've said, he might've had little choice due to his failures. Most fights have one-dimensional characters, because they barely talk. I do wish there were more interaction but at least Miquella's history is far more than many others. I don't think it's a masterpiece by a long shot and I don't think Miquella is a great character. But I think you're way to harsh with your arguments. If you don't assume plot holes, things can make sense.

[@sethbrooks8889]

It's kind of a shame, I feel like I couldn't pull off any of your merch, but all of you look good modeling it, maaaan

[@fungalmage3336]

The airship issue in Bioshock Infinite always bugged me. There are at least dozens of other airships around, even small ones, which could get you away from Columbia. Additionally, Booker has no tact whatsoever in dealing with Elizabeth. He could easily explain to her that before they can head to Paris, they need to make a brief stop in New York, where his employers want to meet her. He's not necessarily even lying about that. "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt" is a very grim way to describe the job, but it's only as insidious as you make it.

[@Scorpodael]

Other comments have pointed out that only the First Lady had the range they needed.

[@fungalmage3336]

@@Scorpodael the airship doesn't need to take you all the way there, just safely to the ground. I had considered that as well, seeing as the First Lady is the pride of their fleet, but the priority for Booker and Elizabeth is to get away from Columbia first and foremost. Why didn't they just safely fly downwards? The answer is simple: to move the rest of the plot forward lol

[@dorianthegray]

Another sort of key point in bioshock is that booker doesn't know what the heck is going on because canonically, traveling to alternate dimensions muddles you up super bad, and he does that a lot in the game, so I'm not surprised he's talking nonsense and missing obvious escape routes.

[@dmolmalowski]

@@fungalmage3336 Travelling on foot would allow the people after you to catch up pretty handidly.

[@cosmicfails2053]

I think the Bioshock one was more the fact we had to win favour with Elizabeth so she won't beat our head in again if we try to fly for New York A show of good will if you would, rather than trying to drag her on the new air ship where she would probably clonk our head again and try to take off for Paris

[@user-ow1bc4sx2r]

3:03 I’d guess that that airship is not designed for super long distances. One designed for passenger transport over long distances is going to be very different than one designed military support