Hoi4 Support Company Tier List - Why are so many just bad?

Ranking Hoi4 support companies from best to worst. There are a ton of support companies that just don't do that much.
Twitch.tv/71Cloak

[@kalimatronix]

Field hospitals have one thing that makes it S+++ tier for me. The so-called "Smug sense of moral superiority"

[@lioraselby5328]

I know it’s cringe to mention this mod in public, but field hospitals are kinda necessary in Equestria at War since pretty much every country has super low manpower pools

[@kalimatronix]

@@lioraselby5328 screw anyone who tells this mod is cringe! This mod is great and no one will convince me otherwise! Especially when I can add Escalation 84 and subjugate this new world in the name of Humanity!

[@bonkercube8974]

@@lioraselby5328 mod aint cringe if it's better than 90% of other mods fr

[@glomman]

@@lioraselby5328 *ponypower

[@lioraselby5328]

@@kalimatronix wait there's a submod that brings people to the EaW universe. oh no, I can only imagine why they created it

[@aleksandrmikhail3803]

I'll say this again regarding field hospital, the reason field hospital are useless because this game treat manpower as disposeable number thus there are no incentive that makes player had to save manpower for whatever reason while IRL losing a lot of men can also be a bad thing in production and in the face of the people esp in democratic nation, there is a reason why the operation that inspire movie saving private ryan exist and USN deploy tons of PBY to patrol and save US combatant in pacific

[@Nikarus2370]

Yeah, if manpower losses had an effect on war support or such, they're probably be a decently big deal for certain nations. Would be nice if their effect was more like support AA and could help with all divs in a battle rather than just *this* div.

[@alexzero3736]

No, no. Field hospital not saves manpower actually, it saves your veteran divisions.

[@OMoanaigh]

Maybe field hospitals wouldn't just reduce losses, but also war support loss due to causalities. So your country sees that you're at least trying to recoup losses

[@tony-te7gd]

Well tbh, you're better off just putting companies in that make your stats better so you loose less in the first place, and win more battles

[@Gabbo.]

With the new dev diary manpower losses will lower your war support, so I think that field hospitals are gonna get buffed somehow

[@xale3658B]

i don't care if field hospitals suck, i feel better knowing my soldiers can be safe if they are wounded

[@rocketjumper1380]

Chad "it just makes me feel better" VS virgin Meta player

[@Link9058]

just suffer 0 casualties smh

[@keuwlcat1319]

but needle huwt :c

[@NareshSinghOctagon]

I love how things which were useful and made sense plus being used in large amounts in real life gets completely screwed over when Paradox makes them.

[@HaHaeTs]

it's ridiculous how paradox makes recon useless. I mean it's one of the most important aspects of warfare, one can have millions upon millions of "soft attack" but without recon it's useless. a rifle division (sorry for my soviet, i mean infantry division of course) without any kind of recon? sounds like madness in reality, but meta in hoi4. same goes for medics and supply coys: i think there should be not bonuses, but penalties (harsh ones) for not having these. but that's a completely different story and i do understand that hoi4 is not a wargame, so...

[@TheEpicLJ]

Given this opinion it sounds like you should play Victoria 2

[@MiyuKuhaku]

I justified it by saying that all of these supports are in every division by default anyways and the support companies are, well, support conpanies. A company will not help a division by THAT much I guess, but then there ofc would be the problem of the rest being stronger in comparison and being quite strong for a company. It's maybe not the best of all solutions...

[@HaHaeTs]

@@TheEpicLJ well, you are right. I mean I love Victoria, especially the economy, but the battles... Jesus. Nice of them to remove warfare from the upcoming 3rd game, I always stopped playing as soon as I managed to drag myself into a war, what a mess. Not to mention the rebellions

[@Matteo-hp7gx]

I suggest you look into the Total War mod, really underrated and great for historical divisions

[@CM-db5cg]

I don't even think this would be that hard to do. Just make it so that without field hospitals your divs hemmorage exp and instead of effecting tactic picks make recon value give straight stat modifiers as your divs can fight more effectivly.

[@RobsRedHotSpot]

I think the recon stat needs to be completely reworked-- historically they should be good, but they're not. As for field hospitals, signals, mp, maintenance, these companies are so useless they should just be replaced by passive upgrades in the tech tree. HOI3 black ice had an interesting way of having you select the prime mover for your division templates. That would be one way to rework recon. Leg infantry plus motorized recon should be a "semi-motorized" division. The terrain and speed modifiers could be much more significant to gameplay if they were tweaked correctly.

[@Arbaaltheundefeated]

I definitely agree... in real life, recon - field intelligence - is of really critical importance, the awareness of enemy activity is paramount to effective operations in the field, it seems ridiculous to me that in a game attempting to emulate a historical war more or less faithfully, it is reduced to practically a waste of space. Also for that matter, where is air recon?!

[@ls93780]

yeah, as it currently stands I feel like in most circumstances you can achieve the same net effect, only better with Engineers.

[@s1lence_tiramisu2005]

​@@Arbaaltheundefeated I think they should make recon stat affect the damage inflicted on the enemy. IRL, if you don't have recon, your unit won't be able to find their enemy, the artiliary will most likely randomly bomb somewhere and hope they hit something that isn't on their side, most unit will end up doing nothing. The signal company should reduce the chance of friendly fire, regardless of field or naval artiliary. In the Operation Cottage, due to bad weather, lack of recon and communication, friendly fire took 32 men's lives.

[@infiniminer7677]

@@s1lence_tiramisu2005 signal companies should really increase defense, breakthrough, and coordination stat (more than they already do) to actually make people use them, radio companies and commanders are paramount to coordinating artillery strikes as well as tanks;. Maybe give them a bonus to artillery damage/org in the division? right now their only use is for battleplanners and it's somewhat undermined by the fact that the AI automatically knows where your battleplan orders are and moves units to defend. How can they see my battleplans if they have no intel on me? magic

[@gothia1715]

Agree. I really dont like it how field hospitals are even a bad pick for nations which struggle with manpower. Also needing trucks for it is just dumb. Passive upgrade would be a great solution. Still a skip for nations with heaps of manpower but 100% worth for those with little.

[@BDP0408]

Some sort of "Support company rework" is needed. Fixing recon, supply, hospitals, etc. along with maybe scaling the amount of support companies with how big your military is. And maybe adding some other support companies like field guns/light mortars which are for special forces, and provide slightly less soft attack but special forces can't use normal support arty. To me support companies are one of the weakest aspects of the game atm, especially only having 5

[@seangallagher9435]

I’d say a neat idea is mountaineer/support companies that add small bonuses to their respective terrain

[@arronalt]

@@seangallagher9435 oh man that'd save me a lot of pain in the A I'd love that

[@alexanderholt4679]

Field hospitals are not good for saving manpower but for saving the experience of important divs. Like think about a tank youbhave been using all game with field hospitals you will hit veteran much faster than without. Issue is you normaly dont have enough slots

[@sevinceur1766]

Tanks generally don’t take enough losses to lose any significant amount of xp. It works better on special forces I think.

[@melfice999]

@@sevinceur1766 True, as Tanks tend to loose more equipment than XP. And as you pointed out, Special forces gain increased mileage out of hospitals due to the way game handles special forces.

[@naoyanaraharjo4693]

Problem is that, the slot the Field Hospital take can be replaced by something else. Like Signal/Supply, the 4 other should be sup.aa,recon,engi,signal/supply Tanks themselves takes little manpower losses

[@NotFinnish]

I feel like as time goes on divisons lose exp, and I wrong?

[@melfice999]

@@NotFinnish they loose exp when they take losses to manpower, and when you edit their templates.

[@rundownthriftstore]

MP companies in combat are trash, but are vital to the garrison side of things. MP companies just equal less equipment and manpower being used in the Garrison. This can translate to +20k guns/MP upgrade for a country like Germany occupying the entirety of Europe. As the Soviets I went from 150k manpower in Cavalry Division Garrisons with no MPs to just 10k manpower armored car division garrisons with upgraded MPs

[@mainman879]

Just a tip: Interwar light tanks are better than armored cars for garrisons. They have insanely high hardness for their cost which means they take very few losses. They also only cost steel instead of Aluminum and Rubber like the armored cars. You will want to limit this to just the high resistance zones though, like ones where you have Forced Labor or High Quotas (or whatever the factories and resources garrison modes are called).

[@chenyangli9777]

It is so niche and not worth all the xp to make that template. Usually when you conquer the entirety of Europe you are no longer short of manpower and ic to garrison it.

[@mainman879]

@@chenyangli9777 it costs 5 XP to make the template. 2 width is all you need, no MP.

[@rundownthriftstore]

@@mainman879 even with NSB I find that adding the MPs and sparing 15 exp isn’t an issue. And interwar armored cars have 65% hardness with a prod. cost of 2 for 2 steel/factory

[@MrNicoJac]

Lol, 20k guns with Germany is _nothing._ Once you capitulate a few minors, you'll quickly have 100k spare basic guns (that you'll never want to use on the front anyway because they're outdated). These days, I go with 1 cav for guns, 2 shitty cars for balance, and 1 light tank for armor and hardness. The light tanks that win early wars for Germany get nuked in the mid game, so those can go to garrisons as I transition to mediums :) (I tried going light-tank-only, but then I'd have to make extra light tanks just to fulfill the garrisons, so that didn't work - having one mil on armored cars from the start in 1936 means you'll probably have enough until late-game) That said, obviously do what works for you!

[@TheMelnTeam]

Maintenance captures equipment. Agree it's often not helpful by default, though I find myself taking advantage in some mod contexts (like KR Belgium w/o a faction). That's niche enough that D is probably fair.

[@juvandy]

Yeah I find it to be really useful early-game when playing a minor. The cost of the equipment is balanced by both not losing as much, and by the capture ratio. It's especially useful if you strategically isolate enemy divisions.

[@messydeskproductions4159]

@@juvandy had a small armor core as Venezuela from stealing an entire soviet tank division in the Spanish Civil wae.

[@naoyanaraharjo4693]

@@messydeskproductions4159 based, why buy tank when steal is good?

[@sapphyrus]

People aren't checking their combat logs enough. Reliability can save MASSIVE amounts of equipment after battles as long as they win it. Heck, there's even an unresolved bug that causes you gain equipment you didn't have due to reliability! I was getting 30 tanks plus instead of losing 50!

[@alatamore]

So, MP is essential for garrisons but useless otherwise. I’d put it in C because you will have garrisons. Maintenance companies are gold for small nations. I don’t see why you drop them in D and never talk about them. Their use isn’t for what it’s intended. It’s useful for equipment capture so they pay for themselves. Now if you are a major, your industry means you use the slot for something else. But, if you are small these are gold for equipment capture. It should be higher than D.

[@3dhex475]

MP i would say, have some decend defense stat boosts for quite little cost - could be sometimes useful when u play a minor and need to fight from early on.

[@andthe4010]

you dont capture enough equipment for it to matter until you get like 1943 tech at which point the war is already decided

[@jinye266]

I just followed exactly what you said about light scout tank armor and made the tank to have 30.4 armor. It indeed made the 20 width division to have just above 5 armor and it worked so awesome in early game……..for only one battle!!! Seeing my division being pierced because its armor is 4.96 (lost just 1 tank from previous battle) is just embarrassing. Haha. Now I am adding sloped armor and converting all the existing tanks to have 35 armor. Better to have some margin. 😉

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

The field hospital should increase troop morale. The mere fact that a light or moderate wound won't lead to an amputation would make soldiers less risk-adverse on average.

[@WarThunderers]

Mvndi

[@AjarTadpole7202]

I'd love to see you argue with FeedbackGaming. His tier list for support companies is much more different

[@nordicmonkeymcnerdrage8517]

I've been looking forward to this, thank you.

[@djarlian6913]

Field hospitals also makes your divisions lose less xp and you can remove them later on, to get your manpower back^^

[@janekk8833]

...and lose some experience due to template change

[@71Cloak]

Experience retention is largely irrelevant. Over the course of an entire barb it was worth maybe 5% of the way to level 4 on infantry.

[@lerbronk]

@@71Cloak how about tickleback? is it worth for smaller nation?

[@petesperandio]

​@@lerbronk If you're a smaller nation and you're worried about manpower, you have two options that are much better than Field Hospitals: 1.) If you have the generic focus tree, go fascist and get Militarism and Military Youth. 2.) Go communist, get 35 Army XP, get Marx's picture for infinite manpower.

[@Zack_Wester]

dont forget that Field hospital save infantry equipment. Like for some reason if a soldier whit a rifle gets hit. soldier dont recover the fallen soldiers weapon... exept for maintenance companies. Field hospital will save the soldier and its equipment.

[@tony-te7gd]

Armoured recon is actually really strong for marines/quality infantry divisions. You can stack breakthrough really high, which is a stat infantry tends to lack when attacking.

[@Six_slotted]

armoured recon + 2xSPG + tank is my standard for a heavy infantry template. these units kill them faster than they can reinforce, then i have my motorised+recon+eng+AA to chase them down and overrun

[@jorgejustin461]

I think Field Hospitals are much better on 3 specific nations. Australia, NZ, and Canada. These nations have enough production to get them in the division but very little man power. They are also 1 encirclement away from having no more man power and need to have infantry basically all over the place to hold stuff.

[@janbo8331]

Agreed. Recently had a run with Canada and had field hospitals. Ended the game with a full army of 24 divisions each with maximum experience. It went until '47, without the field hospitals I'd had less than half of that army by the end.

[@Autumn-ko4pr]

They are also good for 30 minutes of Hel, saving that extra bit of manpower as poland can really help

[@Gabbo.]

Also Italy and Romania

[@egoalter1276]

I feel like pwople who say manpower is never an issue have nwver played anything besides a Major. When you have less than 20mil pop but have to leep a million men in the field at least to achieve anything, you have zero margin on extensive conscroption, and service by requorement adds significant production maluses, you want to avoid if possible, amd going any higher just cripples your economy. Sure militaty youth and whatever the commie equivalent is can give you a viggle room of a few hundred thousand MP, but especially with the new occupationmmechamics, that will be gone in a year.

[@alexzero3736]

Maintenance is pretty underated. They are actually useful for countries that lack industry (stealing equipment).

[@qui-gonjinn3322]

Yes. They were essential for my Lithuanian run because I just don’t have production to make the tanks myself, so I made divisions out of stolen German tanks, thanks to maintenance companies.

[@tetleydidley]

Is it though? Playing as one of the Chinese warlords and Egypt I feel like they add very little value relative to their cost. Begging for equipment via lend lease is so much more impactful and predictable - to the point where my factories need only to produce anti-air guns, transport planes and trains because the AI never seem to lend lease enough of them.

[@alexzero3736]

@@tetleydidley Well, nothing can compete with mechanics abuse.

[@Voekov]

Amen to your point on logistics companies. You either have supply or you don't. Maintenance company in D, though? You've clearly never built a tank division of scavenged enemy tanks, nor have you played a minor with no factories on guns, gaining 100-200 a day scavenged from AI.

[@Voekov]

To clarify - if you're a small or mid sized country and you're battleplanning with infantry, the maintenence company counts as a bonus 20-25% IC on guns, artillery and support equpment. Not only you lose less, but you also gain stuff from free. It's big. Really big. Especially when you're, say, killing the Soviet Union solo as Greece, or similar.

[@Six_slotted]

isnt the point of logistics companies that it enables you to last for longer moving from supply to no supply? if you have a -40% supply use, then the time it takes to run out of supply is 1/0.6 = 1.66 times longer. this means your tank+mech spearheads are more likely to complete encirclements instead of getting bogged down i agree the other benefit of allowing you to have 1.66x the number of units around a specific hub without oversaturating it is fringe except for very late game. but if you do end up in late game with huge stacks on every tile i think its mandatory on all units not just your armoured spearheads

[@Zack_Wester]

@@Six_slotted it also lovers the supplie ussedge this might in some case be enouth to turn a zone from a no supplies to low supplies.

[@Vuosta]

Never needed AT in my life in SP. Even when i got the Austria Hungary achievement backstabbing Germany in '42 on a patch where the AI did really good as them all i needed was green air and then just push around the tank, wait for it to be out of fuel and then kill it (or just kill it outright if its a shit tank).

[@superslayerguy]

dude your channel is so awesome im learning so much about the game thank you so much

[@smorcrux426]

Lots of Hoi4 Mechanics have this really weird dichotomy where you have 2 choices, one of which costs more manpower, and the other more industry. I'm guessing this is supposed to model things like manpower-mana points-money in eu4, but the problem is that in hoi4 you also never have lots of industry but no manpower. There are some countries like China where the opposite is the case, but most of the time you're either going to have lots of manpower and lots of Industry, or little of both. I guess czechoslovakia is the best example to the contrary, but even that's extremely minor.

[@42carlos]

Yeah, I think czechoslovakia is literally the only country that would use Field Hospitals. It starts with a lot of industry but little manpower because of national spirits, takes a lot of focuses to fix that problem, and even then you might run out. It also has no formables and you can only get so far by stealing your hungarian puppet's manpower

[@a.d.478]

Why is red good and green bad ???

[@silverhost9782]

He's Chinese maybe lol

[@mateusz73]

That's just how the tier lists are

[@71Cloak]

I don't know. I didn't make the site. Green being good make way more sense.

[@AssassinAgent]

Maybe red is best coz item rarity is usually shown as white-green-blue-yellow-orange-red or variations of it

[@Quitbit]

Red is dangerous, green is safe

[@Jang07]

Love all these videos!

[@gottliebgamer2783]

I think an amzing tier list to do would be each individual troop type I.E. Motoized Anti-tank, super heavy tank, infantry, cavalry etc

[@wallybonejengles5595]

Recon let's me see my enemies lines and how thick they are. It's useless statewise. But I dont want to see question mark over ever enemy division

[@kevint1929]

I recall in my last MP game with friends I was considering if my tank divisions needed SupArt. I went back and forth and finally decided it was worth looking at; the soft attack increased by, like, 20%. Needless to say I swallowed the retraining time XD

[@jonathandanger7461]

Appreciate your content for the brevity and lack of lengthy ad reads *cough* feedbackgaming *cough*

[@echidona3327]

Spread Sheet tier list when?

[@71Cloak]

Excel S tier, google sheets A tier. The rest trash.

[@echidona3327]

@@71Cloak hell yeah bought time

[@yoavlinzen5669]

signal companies with GBP are really good. they add planing speed and reinforcement so they allow you to plan quickly and reinforce quickly before thr fight ends

[@MatheusTrompete]

This is pretty brilliant! Here's a question, though - if you're only doing Armored Recon for the armor added to the division, and Medium Flame offers armor as well as all the other stuff, wouldn't that mean you're just better off adding Medium Flame over ANY use case for Armored Recon? (except for the mentioned useless bonuses to speed and recon.) I mean, hell, you can even push it (relatively easily) all the way up to the point where you get 16 Armor in an Inf division and then not even German AI is going to pierce!

[@CM-db5cg]

Why are matinence in D tier? The Reliability bonus is pretty mid but that captured equipment bonus can really come in useful, it'll at least drastically decrease the amount of infantry equipment you need, they're also pretty cheap.

[@71Cloak]

Captured equipment is only going to be about half of the stated value most of the time. If yiu have lvl 2 maintenance companies you are only going to capture between 4 and 5% of enemy losses in my experience. That used to have some value but now with recovery after battle it just doesn't really matter.

[@jackwest7197]

@@71Cloak according to my tests they can basically make it so you don't have to produce many guns, freeing up alot of mils

[@CM-db5cg]

@@71Cloak 'recovery after battle' what is this and when was it added? Are you saying there's another value that gives you looted equipment?

[@71Cloak]

@@CM-db5cg when you win you recover equipment. It was added in NSB.

[@Vuosta]

Even then when do you really need that? Only time I've ever made good use of maintenance company equipment recovery was doing the Finland achievement, and that was only because i conscripted like 2 million Indonesians and only had about 20 mils.

[@martonstrenner1937]

Pretty useful video, thanks man!

[@lawrencio261]

i usually equip field hospital, engineering company, maintenance company, artillery and logistics if i play as japan but in other runs, just depends on the situation

[@molvania6330]

Flame tank reliability is still irrelevant right? When you were showing the Marine template with heavy flame tank, did you upgrade the armor to 20 on the tank? Sounds really nice for Special Forces France.

[@71Cloak]

I'm pretty certain I went to 17 on the heavy flame tank. The last armour tech is really late game.

[@wannabeinfamous8690]

@@71Cloak I think heavy flame tank is still good when you focus on armor to build space marine even pdx just patched light tank recon.

[@TheRedKing247]

Reliability of anything less than 20 units of that equipment in a division doesn't matter iirc.

[@manair918]

How is MP so low though? Like, sure, it should never be in ANY combat division. But with a 20w cav which most nations can get easily, they're help a lot for garrison

[@LeastBasedTaxEvader]

There is a pretty good upside to field hospitals- your troops don't lose exp from casualties nearly as much This means that you will have veteran infantry against someone else's trained or regular infantry. I would say B/C tier

[@Lorgar64]

I like field hospitals for RP in single player/mp with friends. Also xp is nice.

[@brutalexis486]

MAN GIVE ME MORE VIDEOS!!!111 love ya bruh

[@1Maklak]

Upgraded MPs work fine in 5 Cav + MP garrisons, or 5 Armoured Car + MP Garrisons, but they're a drain on support equipment and if you don't care about manpower (or can get it from puppets), MP doesn't really help.

[@71Cloak]

You shouldn't use armoured cars. Light tanks are cheaper and have the same suppression with more hardness.

[@Six_slotted]

@@71Cloak depends on level of resistance the minimum number of equipment a resistance attack can cost is 1, so any attack that wont kill 2x armoured car is better ic wise to use ac for vs light tank. ofc for high resistance where equipment losses are high, the number rounding is less impactful

[@raf.nogueira]

Please make a video aboout jets, and also, if is worth it to rush some technologies before starting the wars

[@MrNicoJac]

Imma disagree, and say that motorized is A or B tier. You always should have motorized anyways, and they offer a _shocking_ boost for defense. Putting them on normal infantry divisions can make a surprisingly big difference!

[@ChestOfDoom]

Yeah the defense buff to motorised is quality if im sitting troops defensively. French mountaineers with supp aa, at and mot in the tunisian mountains will hold anything

[@fosphor8920]

I also think he is a bit harsh on cavalry recon... It's early tech meant to be replaced as soon as you got the eco for it!

[@spindash64]

@@fosphor8920 I think the problem is that recon companies aren’t really good at their job of giving RECON

[@catminttcgu207]

Maybe if casualties affected war support field hospitals would be worth it.

[@oneoneoneoneone1]

I find maintenance companies really useful for countries with a small economy so you can collect the weapons from enemies. If you tactically outmanoeuvre the enemey, especially encircle, you collect so many weapons that you don't need as many factories, especially infantry weapons.

[@Mercykiller48]

Don't necessarily agree about recon being bad, at least in a multiplayer sense, if your infantry doesn't have any recon and your opponent's does, it essentially gives away the recon advantage. Recon also provides a bit of a stat boost that can be significant for the common scenario where you have more divisions than the combat width provides for. The 10% speed buff in basically all terrain can also come in clutch both offensively and defensively.

[@winterforlife]

Much better than feedbacks tierlist

[@MrNicoJac]

That was pretty shit right? 🤣

[@Aqueox]

@@MrNicoJac It's Feedback. He's... He's got spirit. I'll give him that.

[@MrNicoJac]

@@Aqueox I *love* how diplomatically _and yet_ accurately your words captured that! I feel like his channel has really taken a turn for the "lowest common denominator" over the last.... 1-2 years? 🤔 Or maybe I'm just getting old, and less interested in the bling and the memes and the outro trickery bullshit 😂

[@Vincrand]

I've been playing MP lately and the reason there is barely any armor on the medium tanks is because of AT (support and line). You know that the bigger economies are going to make tanks, so you make AT for the hard attack that it provides. By getting that hard attack you automatically get a high pierce value that can pen most tank divisions that spend ic in armor. So from that point there isn't really a reason to get armor on the tanks, because they get pierced anyway. Signal companies are mediocre in SP, but in MP that reinforcement speed is essential for your defending infantry if you have no mass mob.

[@kfchundur4087]

AA also has piercing which makes the company a good all rounder and a must have in all situations

[@kfchundur4087]

The flame tank company was also a must have but it was unfortunately nerfed

[@ff-xz6no]

hey @71Cloak whats your thoughts on mp right now ? do you think a patched is needed or do you think its ok ? cause i think its sometimes kinda unplayable cause of noobs picking the wrong focus or memers trying to be funny but thats just my experience

[@71Cloak]

Paradox isn't going to patch mp because its only like 2% of the player base. Also you can patch brain.

[@ff-xz6no]

@@71Cloak hmm yeah true but still kinda sad :( maybe paradox will sometime understand that mp is still a important part of thier playerbase

[@BlurbFish]

How exactly do you think a patch will fix either of the issues you raise?

[@wannabeinfamous8690]

Light tank recon that has armor less than 10 isn’t worthwhile anymore or it’ll be too expensive if you make one. Just make heavy flame tank with ton of armor.

[@asianparentsarecoldhearted6510]

Donc ask my why, i read "4chan support Company Tier list" and i thought it would be a tier list of 4Chan support or not and when the video start i was confuse as hell

[@Biggus_Nickus]

Needs to be redone now, companies give other bonuses now like recon gives +10% soft attack to line arty

[@SchwertKruemel]

terrain defense bonus on forts and rivers don't work btw.

[@jooksin6244]

With the no armor tank build what are you talking about? I’ve literally never seen that in multiplayer, everyone goes for high engine and armor now that over 9 no longer requires chromium, and it’s not like steel is super rare either

[@PatrickDeelen]

Now that war support is affected by losses in by blood alone, would you rate field hospitals higher?

[@71Cloak]

Nope.

[@koalakoala2344]

Recon is only useful when you go GBP right and get the Aggressive Reconnaissance upgrade for 50 xp. Because you'll have not one but two tactics that can't be countered, having superior recon will make you win almost every battle.

[@brighamrichins3]

I don’t have the latest dlc, and I only have access to single player, but I love using logistic and field hospital against the AI. I often use constant pressure tactics against the ai, where my troops are always on the offensive. The field hospitals keep me from loosing to much speed and manpower, while logistic companies do so much if your practicing wave tactics as grand battle plan. I always add mechanic companies to pick up the enemies fallen weapons. Then I do recon and signal companies, depending the nation. And the ability to build signal towers. I almost never use mps. I don’t have access to flame tanks. As for the artileries I can get use out of them as front lines. More expensive, yes. But I can get more bonuses if I put them frontline then taking up support slots, and mechanics help keep them repaired so replacing them is minimal. Engineers are always useful.

[@MetalVampire91]

whoa, seeing the game changed this much is a bit of a surprise

[@mattanderson1178]

Signal companies are under-rated. The coordination makes a huge difference if you’re using large divisions. For example 2 40w divs will focus fire on the exact same enemy division in a battle where the total enemy width is 80. That part is not random, the game is coded to deterministically select the lowest org enemy* in engagement width (2x your width). This ends up consistently putting you in the position of fighting less combat width than you’re fielding because the enemy is constantly waiting to reinforce. You can also cheese this advantage by starting an attack from one tile and then adding support attacks from adjacent tiles. You’ll have more CW fighting sooner and start eliminating divs before the enemy even fills the whole width *note the focus fire selection changes when armour and piercing is involved. This is actually an argument for putting signal company on AT inf tho

[@moekitsune]

Field hospitals with Switzerland specifically can be absolutely broken

[@ace_navgtr5764]

I love spotters tho. Just make spotting and artillery.

[@michaelmutranowski123]

why don't we have mechanized recon company???

[@colef2222]

Aren’t those coordination bonuses provided by signal companies good on tanks?

[@71Cloak]

Coordination bonuses are largely irrelevant. The bonus only applies to you bonus coordination. So if you have 10 bonus coordination, signal 2 will make that 13. When attacking 2 targets that will increase damage on main target by 1.5%. That's sooo good.

[@krzysztofprusinowski1147]

@@71Cloak in minmaxing multiplayer it does make a diffrence. It's mostly about reinforce-memeing enemy tanks when you click on them.

[@bobyfergersin4389]

How come you don’t build more armor in the current meta, even though armor just got buffed?

[@NemexiaM]

Can you test what engineering schools spirit of tge academy mean when it says: +10% fortress buster trait xp gain? Because it doesn't need xp to get it

[@71Cloak]

It doesn't do anything. Whoever put that part there is either dumb or put it there specifically for modders.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

The average field hospital enjoyer. Supplies use items you are already making for other things anyway allowing industry to concentrate on those. Doesn't require fuel. Can _create_ manpower as Switzerland. Saves EXP Can be easily attached to any division. Sense of moral superiority.

[@kleinerprinz99]

What about the nerf to AA (damage?) with BBA will that diminish support AA worthiness? So if you face Germany, how many division should have Support AT? All of them? Just the one defending? Cheers.

[@71Cloak]

I would still use aa. It still reduces enemy cas damage by 70ish %. That is a massive reduction and will save you tons of equipment. AT is interesting because theoretically you could not use it and just use CAS to do the damage but your units definitely don't hold as well. I always try to put at in all my divisions if I plan on attacking Germany. Or some other source of piercing.

[@NotFinnish]

I always have field hospitals because I play road to 56 and prefer not going beyond extensive conscription… for role play purposes

[@asdsdjfasdjxajiosdqw8791]

Any changes to the list after By Blood Alone?

[@71Cloak]

Not really. some people would argue that field hospitals got buffed but I would argue you should still never need them.

[@jolyroger9224]

Tbh I believe that playing against bots as a minor , in mods for example , cav recon is very nice . You place it in infantry’s divisions , so you don’t care about speed that much, it’s also very cheap , I don’t think that with 15 mils some can build a strong 40 div army with tank recon and all other supports. Hence I believe that cav recon isn’t useless really.

[@alexmannen1991]

put motorized on c becauee 10% speed bonus on most terrain on motorized that alreadu have 12kmh + engineer for harsh terrain makes great flanking encircling but onlu for motorized as 10% on 4kmh inf is nothing compared to 12 basicallu 3x bonus do recon give intel bonus?

[@SlendersBlowss]

Field Hospitals are very useful if you grind your divisions for like most of the game i had one situation where ai had good defensive positions and i needed to expand so i put these on because my divisions were making cassaulties on both sides in millions so i was just grinding them while ai got in long term more exhausted than my country it was late game without them it would be impossible i would be dead even with tanks ai just had too much stuff for modern tanks to pierce

[@dappy9988]

29.8M Casualties... I think we need hospitals I have all of Slavs as cores and I am running out on Scraping

[@LJKGray]

I don't know where the "Ai doesn't build peircing" myth even come from, but from late 1939 I always encounter AI with at least anti air or anti tank so 5 or 10 armor from recon tank is basically trash and I've never had success using it, except when playing Japan and use them agaisnt China

[@sephikong8323]

It's not so much that it never builds divisions with piercing, it's that the AI builds three quintillion different templates. Some templates have anti tank or Anti Air in them, most don't, but you never know which one is gonna be deployed

[@71Cloak]

Really because the soviet don't normally have at or aa in their divisions for barb. Really only germany consistently gets piercing on their divisions becuase they normally build aa.

[@GradeAMolvanian]

You forget the Armor Recon can give Entrenchment by putting a dozer blade on it. Same for flame tanks

[@71Cloak]

1 entrenchment is a 2% buff to stats o the defensive if you are actually making use of that entrenchment. Holding isn't something you really need to worry about in most cases you are going to be using armoured recon.

[@nathanwaterser8218]

Is there an argument to be had regarding Czechoslovak field hospitals? I mean, they aren't gonna be using Tanks all too much or all too well since they'll fight mostly in mountains. They need the manpower for both Air and Ground, they need to keep a large army to defend against Germany, and they have just enough production to make them

[@KomradeChamp]

Can you please make a video/explain here in the comments, how do you grind for generals? You said the phrase “I don’t need logistics in the single player. Usually I just grind organizer on Field Marshal and that’s it” and that really bothers me. Because this exact fucking organizer trait is the one I’m never able to grind. I understand how to grind for infantry/tank leader. BUT HOW DO YOU GET ORGANIZER?! I usually just randomly get about 200/1000 points during first couple of years and after that it just stops and never goes up. I don’t even know why it actually got up to 200/1000 in the first place, and I don’t know how to get it to continue growing. I try to use battleplans, but It doesn’t seem to work. So I have to get Logistics in my every single template in order to not suffer in Russia TL,DR: How do you get Organizer trait?

[@71Cloak]

I did a whole video on general grinding that you can go watch.

[@blahmaster6k]

Have a battle plan exist for the general.

[@marthvader14]

Aren't Signal companies used for tank divisions so they reinforce as soon as possible into the battle?

[@71Cloak]

Just stop the battle. If you are attacking you control what is in the battle and you should be attacking with a full combat width or not at all. The reinforce rate isn't going to matter.

[@ahmedrazick4946]

I only use it in Horst with my GBP inf to help reduce being reinforce memed. Level 2 seems to be enough.

[@chenyangli9777]

​@@71Cloak There is a niche way of using it I believe.... Since as attacker you can control the width of the battle by varying the number of directions you attack, you can deliberately attack using only one direction and then reinforce use other directions. You are creating a reinforce situation for both side of the battle by doing so(if the defender is overstacked ofc.), and you'll have a slight advantage if you reinforce faster in that case. It might be more useful than I thought if you can somehow control the divisions being expelled when the width of the battle shrinks, as you can then perform multiple this kind of action in one battle and eventually reinforce meme the defender. But it is too niche to actually have a real case to use it I think.

[@oldpersonmc18yearold46]

@@ahmedrazick4946 yeah they’re more justifiable for things like marines especially where every second you go unreinforced your divisions are getting creamed since they have no breakthrough

[@matyasfukk3270]

Why is maintenence is D? It can recover a lot of your and enemy equipment by 1939

[@yuven437]

Whats the value of the field hospital xp retention?

[@71Cloak]

Not much. If you are winning battles well then you don't take many manpower losses to start with so you aren't really getting much of a benefit. It only really matters is you are taking bad battles in which case you should just not take bad battles.

[@nono_Hoi4]

Doesn't matter who you are Artillery is always #1 in our hearts

[@redryan20000]

I always thought support never changed the speed of the division

[@71Cloak]

Support doesn't outside of recon.

[@Sev51]

Well, no one ever had more then regular troops here, or innitiative

[@User9r682]

I dunno where this "AI doesn't do piercing" thing comes from, it seems most of the time the AI brings anti tank guns out against me even when I have no tanks.

[@71Cloak]

The ai never really builds a good amount of at in the early to mid game. You need to be 1943 or later for the ai to really have at in most of it divisions.

[@seangallagher9435]

Field hospitals should do something else, like 10% org recovery

[@mononoklegymen8947]

For some time already, "no support company" is straight A.

[@Risviltsov]

I know this video was made for NSB, but in BBA, Switzerland + Field Hospitals = nearly immortal soldiers. still a meh add though in that situation

[@Aninkovsky]

Does hospital support help to reduce garrison death?

[@71Cloak]

No

[@Aninkovsky]

@@71Cloak awesome

[@LexaproAddict1309]

I know this is a year late but i think field hospitals are very good for the latest dlc for south america. Unless you go with one of the "core the entire continent" paths you have no manpower as any of the nations

[@bennix9349]

Hoi4 meme strat tier list

[@71Cloak]

Strategic bombers only S tier meme strat on germany.

[@batboy555]

Well time to pull recon off my divisions

[@nathanspreitzer6738]

Honestly I forgot anti tank was in the game, the best counter to tanks is tanks, and ai tanks are never gonna be an issue

[@WarlordToby]

I always go logi for Germany. Germany, with 24x5 7/2 armies invading Soviet Union is a must. Armored recon is also a massive plus for any early division, although vastly more expensive. (1000 light tanks w/ support gun and entrenching is still very manageable and good in early game). I also think engineers are better than artillery bonus, as you can always win if you defend good enough and even the biggest campaigns need to slow down and at best, cause a stalemate. Engineers all the way.

[@71Cloak]

"I always go logi for Germany. Germany, with 24x5 7/2 armies invading Soviet Union is a must." Upgrade the railways and get a logistics wizard out of grinding in Spain and you will be more than fine. No need for the logistics companies.

[@Bruh-ff2tw]

So, for Germany you shouldn’t use recon? Sense you’ll be on the offense mostly. Other than protecting the Atlantic wall.

[@archer8849]

I just use it for speed bonus on tanks or motorised. You already start with mot recon on them so why not. Just a few more trucks to build.

[@tijmenwillard2337]

I feel like engineers are overvalued. The entrenchment is nice, but critical situations don't depend on it. It also gets less useful the more you have, so on GBP or MA, I usually skip over. As for terrain bonuses, they aren't that great. Mostly movement across rivers. Anyway, I think they are pretty good, but not always useful, so A tier rather than S tier. 30 support equipment is also rather expensive

[@oldpersonmc18yearold46]

they’re S tier on defense but A/B on offense (A only after getting the river crossing attack upgrade)

[@MrNicoJac]

Huh The boost to defense is _exactly_ what _prevents_ critical situations 😆

[@RocketSquirrel111]

I always use engineer companies when I plan to do a lot of fighting in mountains/across rivers, but don't have the special forces cap for a lot of marines/mountaineers.

[@oldpersonmc18yearold46]

@@RocketSquirrel111 eng does literally nothing for mountains

[@RocketSquirrel111]

@@oldpersonmc18yearold46 you're right, but they do provide a bonus in hills

[@CeriTsujimura]

technically the mod that extends unit levels to absurd heights makes the field hospitals unironically useful from the largely decreased xp loss in combat

[@tux8000]

Frankly, AC-Recon with AT-AC is something you should probably look at. It basically provides free piercing as recon.

[@71Cloak]

Yeah but it's 1942 tech locked behind a 1942 tech.

[@moekitsune]

Wait there's anti-tank armored cars? Since when?

[@tux8000]

@@moekitsune Since La Resistance aka when they added armoured cars. They are a subtech of the late-war armoured cars.

[@user-tr2li3vu6u]

Rocket artillery should be alongside normal artillery in S-tier. Yes it's a late tech, yes it gives less soft attack, but it's VERY cheap and having it in your average 14W infantry blocks will drastically increase their soft attack at a very low cost

[@chunyinlau9577]

Shouldn't logistic be S grade? To be frank, I think flame tank is too op now