The Dark Side of Learning to Use a CNC for Woodworking

[@731Woodworks]

▼EXPAND FOR TOOL LINKS and INFO▼ Watch Next = Shapeoko 4 Unboxing and Setup: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZmXNhWCaj82NpLM Tools In This Video: Shapeoko 5 Pro - collabs.shop/xd9ye9 VFD Spindle Kit - collabs.shop/0v5jyg Shapeoko 4 XXL is the CNC - collabs.shop/ovn4dq Starter CNC Bit Kit - collabs.shop/ne4tmb 1/4-inch end mill - collabs.shop/0v5jyg 1/8-inch end mill - collabs.shop/qxtpon Free CNC Training and Info - my.carbide3d.com Caliper I Use - amzn.to/3Kjd6nR Small Bessey Clamps - amzn.to/3KfUxRi Small TayTools Clamps - lddy.no/1cl9a CNC Bits from Bits & Bits: bitsbits.com/ref/6215/ Download Carbide Create for Free - carbide3d.com/carbidecreate/ Download Carbide Motion for Free - carbide3d.com/carbidemotion/ 3M Sander - lddy.no/1cloh Makita Router for Shapeoko 4: amzn.to/3AgXz1i Bits and Bits Starter Kit: bitsbits.com/product/250-prem... All CNC Bits: bitsbits.com/product-category... Bits and Bits Discount Code: 731WOODWORKS CMT Bits for CNC: lddy.no/11qud CMIT Discount 731CMT10 Amana Starter Bit Set: amzn.to/3oCNSIg Double-Sided Tape: amzn.to/3uLbxHs Bubble Mailers I Use: amzn.to/3msIogx Bubble Wrap I Use: amzn.to/3uPadTO Where I Buy my Hardwood: www.wtghardwoods.com (If you use one of these Amazon and other affiliate links, I may receive a commission) Some other useful links: Daily Tool Deals on my website: www.731woodworks.com/tool-deals Subscribe to our email Newsletter: mailchi.mp/7e44c16eefdc/731-woodworks-email-newsletter Check out our easy-to-follow woodworking plans: www.731woodworks.com/store Outlaw's Board Butter - So Good it Should be Outlawed: www.731woodworks.com/store/boardbutter

[@mitchellcollins7370]

I program cnc machines for a living. Went to trade school & did an apprenticeship. I am always impressed when people with no background get into cnc and pull off jobs. It’s intimidating at first for sure

[@Str8UpRevving]

I'm a machinist with mainly CNC work mill/lathe. I've had no schooling or prior experience. It's been little over a year and i'm still learning something new. It's a very steep learning curve but also the most rewarding IMO.

[@fxsrider]

@@Str8UpRevving I built 747 aircraft for 25 years and bought a hobbyist level CNC to screw with at home. Never ran one for Boeing but figured it couldn't be too difficult. It has thrown me into CAD/CAM pretty hard. I have crashed bits into material, made errors in the software etc. Last night one side of it had gummed up with epoxy shavings and the gantry got cockeyed and destroyed my work. When it works it is awesome! When it doesn't? I level up when it comes to the things to watch out for. Every trade has it's unique problems. I love learning this stuff. If it wasn't for the internet I wouldn't be where I am with it. I have ideas in my head coming faster than I can draw them up. Everytime i see something cool I wonder how I can make one on my mill.

[@TheWoodFly]

Addressing spindle failure: If your CNC uses a ROUTER, these appliances are NOT designed for the hours of use a CNC will put on them. They will wear out. In my hobby shop, I would get about 6-8 months of use and then it would need an overhaul. I ALWAYS had a backup router of the same make and model. When it needed maintenance, I just swapped them out and sent it to the shop. A commercial SPINDLE on the other hand is designed for the thousands of hours of runtime and will last for years in most shops before needing replacement. BIT SET: Yep, great accessory. BUT if you use really small or fragile bits (think 15 deg V or 0.5mm) they can break if the they drop too fast on the detector. Might be better slowly lowering it on the work with a piece of paper between the bit and the work. When the paper is just trapped, that is your Z-zero. Very good summary of setting expectations and gotcha's. Thanks

[@bluustreak6578]

I'm a CNC operator and software dev, and I gotta say this was interesting. I totally forgot about how intimidating it can be at the beginning, and you just want something that works.

[@michaelnewdigate4509]

I have two cnc's now. Learned a ton and you will as well. The pros far outweigh the cons of a cnc. Most seem to think it is like a vcr that you just insert a design and out pops a finished product.

[@supernat1978]

Man, this was like a trip down memory lane. Everything but the spindle failure has plagued me when first learning (and still now). Another thing that got me was choosing the right bits and speed. Downcut, upcut, compression, choosing a speed that doesn't burn one kind of wood but does another, the feed speeds. So much.

[@EverymanBuilds]

Easel from inventables is the most "plug and play" software I've used. It is almost as simple as import an SVG, give it your material depth and go. You *should* set your tabs properly if you're using them, you *should* check your feeds and speeds still, and there are restrictions in the free version which is to be expected. For simple 2d shapes, it is great.

[@joeking433]

I think that is what I used on my Millright CNC. Is it free for a month and then it's like $20 a month? It was really simple, I made a sign in a few minutes with no problem.

[@EverymanBuilds]

@@joeking433 I think their prices went up quite sharply recently and James Dean Designs covered that in December (kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWjOomOAe7Gsj8k). The free version is still worth it for a beginner, and even those more experienced that just want to cut simple shapes and lettering easily.

[@t-rexnut3091]

So would I be able to pull an image off the web and set a depth to cut to and let it go? I saw a friend of mine do something like that with a laser engraver and thought that would be awesome for cnc routing.

[@EverymanBuilds]

@@t-rexnut3091 pretty much. You will need to set up your material dimensions and thickness, you'll also need to select the tool you're using. Then you import an SVG, select the path you want to cut, set your depth of cut, and whether you want tabs. Then you can press go.

[@borisj4054]

Easel could be great if it was desktop based but being could based I have found It unusable due to long delays between key entry to receiving a result. Very confusing and unsettling.

[@inspectr1949]

Matt thank you I have been following closely the advent of CNC in woodworking for over a decade now without pulling the plug and making myself dizzy in the process more so than anyone you've cleaned out those cobwebs but at 72 with no one around to help me think i'll just fade away to wood chip heaven.

[@oldtech_76]

I had that glitch happen twice when I first started with my CNC. I was cutting two of the same items back to back. The machine did it on the second run both times. Since then, I close out of Carbide Motion, reconnect to the machine, and reset my set my zero positions between projects. Takes a few minutes between runs, but hasn’t happened since I started that routine.

[@jordanweaver3078]

Having come from the metal cutting side of cnc I forgot about all the things that are hard as a beginner. When I got my shapoko I thought it was very easy and forgivable in programming. Thanks for reminding me of all the work it takes to begin cnc Machining.

[@LYTOMIZE_Woodshop]

For a guy who isn't super outgoing and "out there" in day to day life, I have to say you've definitely come out of your shell. This has to be our favourite video of yours so far. I love Matt, but I have to say that Ttam has a certain magnetism!!!! I think I'm weeks away from pulling the trigger on a machine and software (from the looks of it, it might be worth the investment), so I can't wait for the next chapter!

[@731Woodworks]

Thank you 👊🏻

[@jamesaddy33]

I would love to know what you went with when you do pull that trigger. I'm looking at these very hard and want to pull the trigger myself. Thanks!

[@mishellekochel4510]

Let the magic begin!! The editing and thought in to this is stepping up your game my friend!

[@731Woodworks]

Much appreciated!

[@sandmandave2008]

Great video. You covered a lot of information that a newbie should hear. My favorite part was about not using cheap bits. A lot of newbies think they need to use cheap bits while they learn the CNC, but since they don't last and break easier, they may think they are doing something wrong when bits start breaking when it's actually the fault of the bit. All it takes is a little learning about feeds and speeds which is readily available on the internet. I've broken one bit in 15 years of routing and that's when I didn't have my board clamped down tight enough. It was a production run of Muskie fishing lures I was cutting from one inch thick hard maple. The board shifted right during the final pass so the 1/4 inch bit cut full depth and snapped. Lastly, your CNC has what is referred to in the CNC world as a router. Yes technically it's a spindle but in the CNC world, they typically reserve the term spindle for motors where the RPM is determined by electrical frequency, are designed with more robust bearings, and they don't have brushes. Spindles can easily run for over 12,000 hours whereas routers usually won't make it to 1,200 hours. Some of your dark side problems are because of the model you have. A Shapeoko CNC would be more like a bench top table saw compared to a cabinet saw. You can only expect so much out of hobby equipment.

[@woodfinchcrafts7267]

I normally always use cheap bits - and the thinner the better, down to say 2mm. They cut a lot quieter, make much less dust, waste less wood, cut inside corners closer to square - but need multiple passes, which isn't a factor for me personally. A 2mm bit lasts forever, I've only broken them when I've done something stupid

[@sandmandave2008]

@@woodfinchcrafts7267 glad they work for you. You’re the first I’ve heard from that prefers cheap bits. Most in the CNC groups I’m in that have commented on bit quality said they were amazed at the difference quality bits gave them in cut quality and longevity. The problem with cheap bits is they just have a generic geometry. If that geometry fits your needs then you’re lucky to be able to use the cheap ones. But many people cut substrates that end up with the best results from a bit that was designed specifically for a particular material. That is where the difference is going to be obvious. Look through an Onsrud catalog and you’ll see bits made for hardwood, softwood, hard plywood, soft, plywood, mdf, laminated chipboard, soft plastic, hard plastic, composite material, solid surface, and foam. One type of bit won’t cover all materials.

[@woodfinchcrafts7267]

@@sandmandave2008 Sure - specific bits are absolutely necessary for materials that are not wood. I once tried cutting perspex with a cheap non plastics bit and got horrible results. But for MDF, plywood and solid wood, a cheap bit works fine - especially for outlined profiles. I used a much better bit for solid guitar pockets and a small cheap bit would never have worked. My point was just not to write them off as useless - they are the main bit I use. It all depends on the task

[@sandmandave2008]

@@woodfinchcrafts7267 I’m sure they work for you but I would rather put my trust in quality bits even for general woodworking. Material is too expensive these days to risk a project on a cheap bit. Besides, there is no way a cheap bit is going to last as long as a quality bit. There is a reason they cost more and it isn’t because the owner wants to make more money. Whatever you’re happy with is fine.

[@t-rexnut3091]

Which CNC do you prefer?

[@jonathandamewood5749]

I am on my 3rd cnc. I just upgraded my shapeoko to a onefinity. As I gentleman with kidney failure my shop and tools(including my cnc) have helped save my life. I enjoy creating things and seeing people smile when they receive one of my hand made items. On a side note my wife would appreciate it if you’d stop recommending tools…saving up for the rigid sander now…lol. Learn the software and you can take your projects to new levels. I am wanting to save for Vcarve pro myself. Hopefully next year. Love your content…and your faith keeps me grounded while I sort out mine. 👊👊👊👊

[@manny3549]

"my wife would appreciate..." Ha, ha, ha... Thanks Jonathan...you also inspired me with your comment

[@r.gosane7182]

One month into owning a Shapeoko pro XXL, You are 100% right ! Add to the dark side: turning on router before the Carbide Motion swr gives RPM recommendation leads to destruction of top surface of bit setter. I think your caution about not running the machine unattended is the most important part in the video. I have watched a lot of CNC videos in the last couple of months and never seen anyone say you can burn your house down with one. Now if I could only convince my wife not to start the dishwasher/washer/dryer when we leave the house.

[@seantoomey9215]

I just watched your Dark side video and thank you. I'm a newbie and am waiting on some parts to begin but it was a great video. I have subscribed to your channel and am looking forward to seeing more of your productions. The video answered a lot of questions I haven't thought of. Keep it up. Thank you and also thank you for your service as a trooper.

[@731Woodworks]

Glad it was helpful!

[@guntherloedige4145]

Having built a CNC machine 30 years ago for a grad project in Tech school where we learned to program by HAND as well as various softwares (and working for a controller manufacturer at that time), I find creating the G-cod easy and inconsequential. Knowing speeds and feeds is the only real challenge for tool condition AND material inconsistencies. If this is a problem for you, geek out on a poor weather weekend and simply play with a CAD or graphics program and get proficient... Also, the rigidity and care of the CNC structural and electric is essential. Obviously, sparks indicate brushes, but the rigidity differentiates what I term as a real tool versus a "toy". Although X-carve, Shapeoko and Infinity are designed by the same person, the rigidity of the Infinity is superior for that level of the market. Also, it doesn't't use stretching belts of rubber, but real circulating bearing guide. blocks one precise linear guides and ball screws. Sure, we can't all justify the $30K+ machining centres used in industry, but start familiarizing with their qualities and strengths in judging a CNC for you and balance between that and your budget. Expect to pay for the best consumables, as we mostly use these for a small business, they are simply written off as composite overhead.

[@Mike-ou5ps]

Down here in H-Town, I worked for a company that had a CNC. We did plastics for the oil companies, flanges, stuff like that. I was actually hired on cause of my Woodworking skill/history so I needed very little training as most of the tools in their shop were typical woodworking tools. Except for the CNC. Huge beast of a machine. The table itself is what moved along the Y axis. 5' x 10' table. The Head moved X and Z axis. They only had one guy operating it, from programming to milling. I became his helper. Within 3 months, he was able to take a vacation for a week (he hadn't had one in 10 years cause he was the only CNC guy). In 3 months, I learned the programming and operations of the machine. Worked there for 4 years. Your correct, you never stray to far from it while it's operating cause the moment you do is when something happens. Our table had a vacuum under it, so when you placed material on the table then engaged the vacuum, it would suck the material to the table. But sometimes that wasn't good enough. Pro Tip: When milling out projects such as your templates, instead of using double sided tape, screw down the material to your sacrificial boards by putting the screws in areas you know will be scrap. Less cost than buying the tape and you can use the screws over and over.

[@lefthandlenny]

love these vids. as a fulltime cnc machinist for a company this has really pushed me to purchase my own tabletop cnc!

[@youwishiwood]

USPS has free bubble mailers for if it fits it ships and they are about $9. So free mailer and $9 to ship. You can have a whole case delivered to your home free from USPS. Just order online

[@youwishiwood]

Also Uline had a deal that just happened where if you order $500 or more it was free shipping. I stocked up on boxes because essentially it was like getting them 1/2 off

[@alterstassfurter5743]

Great vid for beginners. I am a metalworker and I became a CnC -professional, by a training for a year. I learned programming Heidenhain and sinumerik for 3 and finally 5 axis. ATM I am working at home at a Stepcraft 2/420 ...but I decided bying a Stepcraft M1000 ...can't wait to work with cuz it'll becoming the highlight of my workshop at home. best regards from good old germany...keep on doin !

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

One of the things I would add to your negative list, is that CNC's are not for everyone. It is not a toy, it is a very dangerous machine, and some people for the lack of a better word are just not smart enough to be trusted to operate a dangerous machine safely (moments of experience) Having run my own DIY CNC for 8 years now, I can safely say that the CAD, CAM, Machine software is by a country mile the hardest thing to come to grips with. It is not a 3D printer where if you stuff up a piece little harm is done. A CNC has the potential to kill you. Don't be looking for a quick fix, unless you are prepared to put in the significant amount of hours to learn how to use it properly, stick to your 3D printer. Also most hobbyists are not taking dust collection seriously enough. Poor dust collection is a great way to get yourself some really serious health issues, that can be fatal.

[@matthewsaxe6383]

Great video, thanks. I am waiting for delivery of my longmill and plan on making a business with it. Appreciate the cations you make.

[@cadmiral3d146]

Most of the things you are mentioning are exactly why there is a machine tool degree. As a machinist of 20+ years I still run into software and program glitches on a regular basis. Either user error or a result of poor data transfer to the CNC. The speed of your router and better cut at a lower speed is the better chipload for the cutter and rpm. Speeds and feeds are critical for good results. All of your information is priceless. Some of us learned it in machining classes or as an apprentice. Presenting this to new CNC users is a fantastic idea. The only thing I think you missed, is any automatic machine can severely hurt or possibly kill you. Be careful, stay safe and have fun!

[@patrickjames3954]

Matt, I watched your 2 videos, Light and Dark side of CNC and WOW, this is my learning curve on Laser Engraving……. 99% the same thing…. Great job

[@andreww6738]

Great video,always remember who's in Control! As for static in your shop across hose, wrap braided copper wire around the hose end to end and hold in place with either elect tape or tie wraps about every 12 " or so, 5his dispells the static and could very well prevent static fire inside the vacuum. This is incredibly important to do! Have an awesome day.

[@xxxenricop]

Another very informative video. Thank you! I also love the fact that when I last looked the poll said over 80% wanted 1 long video... And yet you went and split it in 2 🤣.

[@731Woodworks]

yeah the majority said they wanted it in one. However, I know that 99% of people would never watch a 40 minute video. That's why I split it up to make it more consumable

[@manny3549]

It's more practical to think and take in one thing at a time. The video is quite useful and will be watched a lot because there are not many that have done a study like this on video. Super helpful.

[@Bull43459]

Brother, I feel you pain. I purchased the XCarve by Inventables. 3 days to put it together and a month or do to learn the software which is sort of easy for me using Easel pro. Paw's Paw's workshop on KZbin has taught me a lot of info on how to use both the software and the machine. As far as getting angry on bits braking, eating clamps with bits and ruining projects which happens. But when it does,I act like the Hulk (more like a baby man child) and smashed more projects on the concrete 😡😡😡😡. It's all a learning curve lol. Thanks for your honesty and love the videos.

[@PacesIII]

I make ADA signage. I ALWAYS mask the back of the substrate with the same masking we use for vinyl lettering. It comes in various widths and is pretty consistent at .003" thick. If I am cutting smaller parts the vacuum table won't hold, I'll use a double sided adhesive sheet on a sacrificial material, such as corrugated plastic, and mount the part joining the double sided adhesive and the non adhesive side of the masking. This makes removal easier without needing to clean up glue from the back of the substrate. And parts aren't flying.

[@liketheyogurt]

Thanks for giving over this. I've been wanting to get a CNC machine but like you said, there's a lot of learning that goes with it. It makes it difficult when you almost have nothing to go off of and you have to figure out what setting to put it at. Keep it up, you'll get it down and it becomes easier.

[@joeking433]

It's DEFINITELY not user friendly!

[@sjmcdo]

I’m a CNC programmer. The hard reboot is still necessary from time to time even with professional $$$$ software and hardware. Do you do any welding near this machine? Especially high frequency aluminum welding? This can cause program corruption. We have added a nearby ground rod and directly grounded the problematic machine and achieved very good results. Love your videos!

[@stephanieSimmons214]

Nicely done! It’s very important to consider possible challenges, problems and concerns when thinking about adding an expensive tool to the shop. For me, it’s the unfriendly user interface(s) and the languages needed to communicate with the CNC that holds me back. Soon - I hope someone creates a MUCH easier and friendlier way to universally use CNC machines. Great job presenting the down side to owning and operating a CNC. Looking forward to the positive side! Thanks Matt! 😊

[@731Woodworks]

Thank you

[@KITDFOHS]

I call this the KZbin curse. You can find creators who use CNC's and you think it, "Wow that looks so simple, I can do that!" Then you dive in and quickly realize you need to do a ton of reading/study/learning just to get the thing up and running and not waste money or break stuff. I learned the hard way that CNC isn't straight forwards or simple with 3D printing. If someone wants to learn, that's the cheapest way to get into CNC. You'll learn design/file conversion, you'll learn G-code, and you'll learn that these machines require REGULAR investments of your time/attention as well as maintenance. They're super handy and a force multiplier when they work properly. Whey they don't work properly your ability to troubleshoot and fix it yourself quickly will dictate how much you question your life choices. EDIT: Also I highly recommend that people who want to get into CNC anything. DO NOT BUY a preassembled machine. You will want to learn how the machine goes together and how to do quick/basic troubleshooting with it. Saves you a lot of time spent with customer support. Just read and follow the instructions for the build and you'll be alright. If that's too intimidating I'll be upfront and honest in saying that CNC is NOT for you.

[@tonyrichmond9428]

100%. I've built several of my own (using other people's really good designs) and the only thing I want to add is that people also underestimate how much material they'll scrap for bad jobs, wrecked jobs, things that didn't turn out the way they want, etc. I've filled up my fire pit a couple times. A cnc is just a tool, like anything else in the shop, and takes a lot of practice to acquire the skill to make it useful. It's also an employee, unlike any other tool in the shop. It needs to be trained, told exactly what to do, followed up with, etc. That also means we need to learn the skills to teach it whay it needs to know to help us. Also, i forgot another dark side to mention. Post process. Very few things come off the table ready to finish. I typically get away with sandpaper, but not always. Some folks get discouraged when they realize that there is still a lot of work after turning the machine off.

[@redherring5532]

Yes, I feel this lol. But I can say that I'm glad I made the jump because as clueless as I've been ive also had some fantastic wins and great opportunities cruise to me.

[@cdstover2000]

Liking the new introduction and video styles your channel is exploring lately. Excellent content. Recently started the woodworking journey and your channel has made a huge impact. Thanks and keep it up.

[@731Woodworks]

thank you

[@richardskull5279]

Learning CNC g code and Cad/Cam is a very large undertaking. That said, you can teach yourself. Stay determined and keep trying. I taught myself and made a career of CNC machining for 25 years. The more you use it, the easier it will get.

[@norm5785]

Well done presentation, thank you for sharing this with us today, stay safe and healthy, from Henrico County Virginia

[@sublimationman]

Lots of guys use pin nailers (wire brads) to hold work down, the bits will go through them no problem, just be sure you get coverage where your parts will be so they don't go flying when it's cut out.

[@AndyBirdBuilds]

Great video! I think its important that we see this side too!

[@731Woodworks]

Thank you

[@harleyfiremedic7796]

Nice to meet your brother Ttam. Thanks for the info, looking forward to the Sunshine and Rainbows :)

[@nathanquinlan2719]

Estlecam is what I use and is compatible with Grbl based CNC. Very good for auto-outline selection on SVG and once you setup tools little work. Free to use, cheap to get rid of nag popup. Decent processing of 3D shapes as well.

[@bryanharness1122]

Soo true. I'm in learning phase. Ive ran a manual mill but never cnc. It's a long road ahead for sure. Getting a cnc4newbie machine so excited for the adventure. For now I'm learning the software

[@Platttraining]

I loved your down to earth, honest disclosure of CNC. So needed and I appreciate your work into making this video. Liked your Proverbs T-Shirt!!😇

[@731Woodworks]

Glad it was helpful!

[@prestonbowden]

It’s fun to see you learn how to use a CNC machine. I’ve been doing woodwork for about four years now and have wanted to purchase a CNC for my shop. I have an engineering degree so I’ve done CNC milling with metal in school and I’m hopeful to get into woodworking with a CNC in the future. The thing that’s currently holding me back is the barrier to entry with price. It’s tough to justify to my wife when we have twins on the way 😁 Great video, God bless!

[@cagecatchum3001]

Check out Sienci CNC. Good price. Good reviews. I have no affiliation with them. Just one I am considering buying.

[@dusckemp]

On the issue of securing the work pieces, the hardwood would maybe stay the same on double sided tape, but I believe Jay Bates was using a Brad nailer with hard plastic Brad nails to secure his MDF sheets to the CNC bed. He was doing a ton of cuts and used those to secure his pieces plus if the bit bits it then it’ll cut through it with the damage of a metal nail

[@aarongreenlee7867]

How are there no comments (or I missed them) on how you filmed yourself twice! Great video! I have wanted to get a 3D cnc to make balsa crankbaits, but be able to make them very consistent.

[@hunterkaroffa1]

I have a 3 xxl and with a 1/8 compression end mill you could decrease your cut time in .500" - .750" MDF significantly. Start at .500" full depth @ 50ipm and "4-4.5" speed on the Carbide router and get back to us! Often times you can get away without using tabs this way as well due to the sawdust packing the cut so tight.

[@Fosterforged]

Hey Matt, I work in Arkansas a lot (usually little Rock) and if you would like some that has a lot of experience in using CNCs sit down and show you some of the tips and techniques, I wouldn't mind making the drive to help you out brother. I can even bring my portable cnc and show you some stuff on it. Another thing you could do is send your files to a person and have them make the toolpathing and then send you the gcode. Keep up the excellent work and don't give up on it!

[@placitas52]

Nice video. Brought back memories of all my disasters. Double sided tape without clamps is a disaster in the making. You can wrap your vacuum hose with some twists of copper wire and ground the wire to discharge the electrical build up. Same effect they had in the dust bowl for electric build up. Doing a video, as good as this one, would be more challenging than CNC software. Vectric is great software, but pricey.

[@Marlfox570]

Double sided tape without clamps is perfectly fine and actually sometimes the best way to go if you have no other way to hold your part down. I've cut hundreds of parts on bigger machines cutting fairly aggressive while using double sided tape. You just have to keep in mind that surface area plays a huge factor in the holding power of the tape. Don't cut all the way through the part until your very last cut and 9/10 times you'll be successful and make sure you clean off any dust that may impact your tapes holding power.

[@BradHutchings]

Very astute observation about having files that are just ready to go. Instead you've got to open the file, enter the dimensions of your starting material, calculate the gcode, etc. all in the GUI. It doesn't lend itself to automation at all.

[@davidlarson2534]

Once again, very informative and valued. It is this type of video is why I subscribed. There is a content author on KZbin from Australia (Roger Webb) who has built a number of CNC machines. They cost as much as buying one, but if you have the skill you can control the quality and accuracy (0.0005”) of the machine and product. Thanks 731 for helping us all out.

[@EE-ed5qx]

I've been thinking about buying a cnc for a few months now, and I'm going to pull the trigger! some of the things you touched on were very informative but some things came second nature to me because I am an industrial cnc trainer and operator thanks for all your info,cant wait for a machine of my own!

[@PastorJack1957]

I'm gathering info as due diligence to get into this business. Thank you for a very good video that is real truth.

[@GreyBeard3D]

If you are shipping via USPS priority mail, USPS will give you free boxes. They have many types, flat rate, regular, zone rates, bubble mailers, etc. All free! Even delivered free.

[@randymeinert1438]

It sounds like what most beginners go through--absent the mechanical issues--which are just because of poor quality components. I've had a CNC for more than a decade and a half. I went through many of the same experiences, like breaking bits. I had the benefit of being proficient at 2D CAD drawing when I bought mine (now I work in 3D). This allowed me to draw then cut whatever wanted, and not simply rely on what is downloadable from the internet. It is true that entry into CNC world is expensive ($2500 is cheap), but "you gets what you pays for.." In the long run, using a Columbo spindle vs. a simple router motor like what is shown in the video is a worthwhile investment.

[@MakerTom2022]

Thanks for this vid! You've grown in your video skills too. Love how you duplicated yourself in the dark and light versions. I especially appreciate your tip about the bit setter. I am just about to start a $120 project with multiple bit changes--just enough to buy a bit setter! Godspeed brother!

[@DCDLaserCNC]

Good information on entry into CNC routers.

[@lowellhouser7731]

I'm using FreCAD to make models and program tool paths which then get fed into LinuxCNC so that the machine can run the job. I have no idea why, but I've gotten random Z plunges the entire time since I started months ago that are not in the gcode. You have it easy my friend. You'll like the Makita. I am using the same, and soon will be upgrading to it's bigger brother the 2 1/4HP with a Musclechuck QD collet.

[@akidfromnilesroad8977]

I absolutely love your channel. I put your channel on play out in my shop and just listen to your videos while I do my woodworking. Thanks for the awesome content. I may never meet you in person but I’ll definitely see you in heaven. Keep the faith and may God bless you, the family and your channel.

[@731Woodworks]

Thank you 👊🏻

[@akidfromnilesroad8977]

👊🏼

[@basilreardon5783]

I can't thanlyou enough for your insight on the pros & cons using the CNC . I thought it was going to be a bit easier but I think I need a bit more patience for programming the damn thing . Thankyou your awsum dude......more damn computer literacy.......bloody hell .

[@tomkiehfuss]

Great video. Thanks for your wisdom and experience. You saved me a ton of frustration and disappointment. I think you and I were cut from the same template!

[@jameskirk3]

The other thing people don't get the memo on is the noise and the speed. A dust collector and spindle cutting is extremely loud. It's also a noise that doesn't stop with a machine that only moves at 50 inches per minute. Bigger machines are feeding at 500 plus inches per minute in soft materials.

[@misojos2011]

Hello, finding your video is like talking to myself in front of the mirror, I just made the decision to buy my first CNC machine and I am just at the level of all these doubts and frustrations, seeing your video gives me encouragement to know that It's part of the learning process about this tool, when I see your projects, I see that they are problems that can be overcome, I'm not saying easy, but not impossible. Thank you very much for the honesty and clarity of your video. If I could ask you a favor, as a new user, could you create a video or give me any advice on materials, speed, depth and bit to use? It's a lot, right? but it would be very beneficial for many who are in my position now. Thank you, very much and Happy and Prosperous New Year, to you and your Family.

[@nycenj3974]

There's 2 of u! 🤙 Channel is great, thank you so much.....

[@jonwhitehead2102]

Thanks Matt! Great job as always. Have been on the fence as to what to get and there are as many options as the cereal aisle it seems. It's nice to see videos you put out to at least hear the good, the bad and the ugly!

[@johnoliver7134]

On double sided tape, if one breaks thru the material, the adhesive from the tape will adhere to the tool, which picks up the chips, or sawdust, causing binding. Have you tried reverse helix end mills? They push down the material, rather than pulling it up.

[@stevenkofoed1698]

Great job on this video! Your skills have improved a lot!

[@731Woodworks]

Thanks!

[@ScaleModelCraft]

I worked for a CNC Software company for 24 years. I am now a full time Woodworker/Creator, and I chose hand tools over CNC because I love working with wood, and am not interested in mass manufacturing. In my opinion, you can do some Wonderfull things on a CNC, even very artistic, but its the repeatability that makes it worth the money. CNC would be my choice if I were into manufacturing multiples of the same items, but thats just not what I do woodworking for, I do it to put my hands on the wood, and build one of a kind projects by hand.

[@Ryan82288]

I’ve been a machinist for 12 years and worked with CNC machines went to college for it the whole 9 yards. Using a CNC with no schooling and just going for it is hard. I’ve never used one for wood but programming is a skill in itself and a lot of people want money for that skill. I know if I spent 2 years learning how to program and had years of failure and experience I wouldn’t do it for free. I think the best thing is to stay positive and learn as much as you can!

[@Ryan82288]

Also with CNC machines people think oh it will do all the work for me. Which is true but you have to assume this machine doesn’t know what you want until you tell it which tool it’s using the material type the thickness. And maybe even start location. After that a program should run smooth. There’s a 100 ways to mess up when using CNC and it will be a huge money maker once you master it!

[@DBrownCo]

Thanks Man! I have thought I was just Dense, 😊it's nice to know you have had a similar experience. I agree with you on needing more files from carbide, it help would take some of the discouragement away. 👍

[@billwiley6896]

Great video Matt. Thanks for the insight on the pros/cons

[@obsidianmoon13]

A year from now you will have a much longer list, but that's part of the fun. Useful tip: Zero off the table's center. Use the rapid positioning. That way if the toolpath messes up or you have to turn the machine off, you can instantly go back to the same zero with rapid positioning again. This has saved a ton of time and frustration, especially with 3D when you can't always use the same spot later on.

[@731Woodworks]

Thanks for the tips!

[@timlist4173]

Nice good guy/bad guy theme. Perfect for October. Sounds like it is highly recommend to take a class on the CNC before purchasing one.

[@zachpel1923]

bobcad software has you design the part, then you tell it sizes and cut depth. then you can have it come up with a tool path or let you pick your own

[@cagecatchum3001]

Thank you for the video. Very thoughtful of you to explain the growing pains. Much appreciated and will likely save me time and money. Great video!

[@19mitch54]

I bought a small used CNC to learn on. I spent more on software than I did for the machine. There is definitely a learning curve and I’m a mechanical engineer.

[@53fetech]

the speeds and feeds are very conservative on carbide motion. running at 65IPM and slower with most wood or MDF is not idea. the bit also plays one of the biggest parts in cutting. upcut VS downcut or compression bit and so on. there is alot to learn however with wanting a company to have projects that are just download and go is more of a liability on them especially since this is a desktop cnc that you build. multiple things will also effect how it performs. such as tramming, wasteboard surfacing, squaring the machine and more. keep at it and you will get there. 2 hrs for a md cut its crazy! speed that machine up. use the feedrate + button as your running it and listen to the machine you will hear if it starts going to fast. then if you notice you are running 150% adjust the feedrate in the bit settings

[@whitetigertas]

the reason your cnc is missing steps on the same program is because you are getting feedback from the dust collection. ground the vacuum hose seperate from the cnc so the steppers can get a clean signal. also set your 0,0 for program to center of material and you will minimize hitting clamps.

[@731Woodworks]

Thank you

[@ivanscountrymusicandcars2357]

I found this video very helpful! I am looking for my first and hopefully only CNC. I think I will be staying away from Shapeko and similar products. I think I need to wait until I can get into something like a stinger 2 or a shop Sabre. Another great video.

[@joeking433]

You're going to spend $15k on your first router???

[@nobodynobody2632]

Put copper tape in the hose and wire it to a ground, no more static build up .

[@evilgoatgarage4193]

They have feature based cam software, where you import your piece and it selects tools(that you’ve added to your tool data base) and programs the tool paths. I know auto desk has feature cam and there are a few others. You would need a good post processor for a cnc router. I use feature cam at work for simple parts when I’m too lazy to program the tool paths myself and I’ve had good luck with it on mills.

[@whtkngofc]

Lol I remember first getting into cnc machining and being shocked to learn that you cant just email the model to the machine and hit go?!? 😂😂

[@paulbergman8228]

Loved the video! Got an AVID Pro coming just after Christmas, so your ‘banter’ was really great! Good cop, bad cop...LOL and realistic! Have been Subbed, but now rang the bell. Thank you! 😎

[@guybowers9094]

Really great video Matt. I like a good pros and cons of equipment and somebody who is not afraid to tell the bad side about it. When that is done I feel better about taking the dive and buying it thanks again

[@jrod5113]

Your editing skills have improved so much since your original content.

[@731Woodworks]

Just learning as I go

[@joeharris2074]

Appreciate the honest advice here. Very helpful, thank you!

[@bk1634]

Matt, I love your channel. Having and using a 3D printer helps with the software learning curve. Thanks for your awesome videos and make something today!

[@mauriciorano134]

What king of 3d printer do you recommend for beginners?

[@AB_in_CO]

Great video! Love the editing, really fun to watch and great info

[@731Woodworks]

Thank you

[@bssutton27]

Love your channel, found it after your interview with WWMM. Looking to purchase my first CNC so this information is great!

[@731Woodworks]

Thank you!

[@cam7724]

Scott, there are a lot of good options for CNC's openbuilds has good options. Longmill is also a solid option. Vetric software in my opinion is by far the best bang for your dollar. There is a bit of a learning curve but the software is very intuitive. Also IDC woodcraft has a great channel for cnc info. After having a cnc for 3 years there are a few things I would have done differently. My main frustration is holding the work to the spoil board. Sitting here today I would look into vacuum hold down. A good middle ground for this is CA glue with masking tape. But I find it dosen't take long to throw your spoilboard out of level and you will have to resurface your board. Z height is huge the more the better. The more ridgid your cnc the better. There are lead screw driven and belt driven machines. I am sure if you look into it you will find lead screw is a good way to go. I think my total investment is close to $8,000.00 Canadian dollars Computer with good graphics card (gaming computer) $1200.00 CNC $4500.00 Router $160.00 Router bits $400.00 (Freud) Dust collection $600.00 Software $1000.00 vetric ( you can buy the base version and then pay the difference as you want to upgrade. Plus they allow a free upgrade to the newest version when it gets released) Table with enclosure $250.00 If I can help in any way let me know.

[@SpyderHelix]

Openbuilds is a fantastic option, I have one myself and it is amazing - especially with all the accessories available like the black box control board and Interface dongle (I have both) Another good machine is the Newcarve CNC from CNC 4 newbie. Very rigid and nice and big (weight and size)

[@nicolasaguilar1491]

Ah! Man I’ve seen you grow so much on KZbin it’s amazing, super inspiring.

[@731Woodworks]

I appreciate that!

[@cdhikes2906]

Something ironic about the light of the world being used for the dark side of learning. haha. Love it though! A CNC isn't in my (near?) future, but I like learning about them anyway!

[@rayleblanc7209]

I use Blender to create my 2D and 3D for my 4x4 CNC and 3D printer and can save them as dxf or stl format. It's a very powerful free software. You can import all kinds of file formats and tweak and scale them to your desire and then export them in another format. Like everything else there is a learning curve but luckily there is a plethora of tutorials.

[@731Woodworks]

very cool! Thanks

[@rayleblanc7209]

@@731Woodworks You mention your machine crashing after a few perfect runs. One of the causes ( from many)can be in your dxf file with a stray node that causes a step back on a forward motion. They are really hard to find because they are on top of the other nodes. In post processing its written as one line of code. While running the machine the code is read so fast that line usually gets skipped .But in a blue moon it reads that line and tries to perform it and loses its coordinates crashing the machine.

[@tonyrichmond9428]

1 hour cut time? Thems rookie numbers! I've had a few at 18+ that took me all weekend (won't run it unattended). Matt, please take a moment to find some video of cnc garage fires and talk about it here. People underestimate how dangerous these things are, and comparing it to running a drier, or even leaving an iron or the stove on is really not a fair comparison. It's not just bad business or a poor decision. These things WILL burn your house down if you dont respect them.

[@donsdiys1140]

I am looking into getting a cnc. First of next year. Thanks for the video.

[@HeggenHomeGoods]

You can get flat rate priority mail pouches for free from USPS. If it fits it ships for $8.

[@garryryanhoilman1531]

Great video, hoping to get a cnc in the next 4 years. I currently hand route all of my stuff and while I am very good at doing that it does stop me from working on other things as a cnc can go once you get it set.

[@dan061958]

good video, with lots of information for the newbie, but, there are some things that need to be corrected/added. if you are changing brushes, you are using a router, not a spindle. spindles do not have brushes, and will last a good long time. i am still using the same spindle on my shapeoko 2 for the last 7 years, without a problem. the spare that i bought (just in case), and it is still in it's packing box. as to end mills, i'm still using the same inexpensive mills for the last 7 years, and i think i have only broken maybe 2 of them. you need to remind viewers that, the cnc does not go crazy on it's own, it only does what it is told (don't ask me how i found out that one). as to cad, i tried carbide, and easel early on, but found them, but found them to be too limiting. i started with cut2d, and moved up to vcarve desktop, and have never looked back. i have used both sketchup, and vcarve for designing projects, and they work for me. as for any of the other gadgets (bit setter, touch probes, and other such things), until they truly learn how to use their cnc, and not have to rely on gadgets to do their thinking for them (what would they do, if they become dependent on them, and they cease to work, they will be lost, or worse...). i have learned how to line up my x and y by eye, and my z with a bit of paper (.004" is within spitting distance to perfect). i would suggest to newbies, get sketchup 2016 (last free version), and vcarve desktop (cheaper than pro, with only a minor difference or two between them), as cad/cam, universal gcode sender (for sending to the machine, it is free, and very versatile), and any good, refurbished desktop, or laptop, to run the software and such (i started out with an old, salvaged from scrap, ibm lenovo 60). as for the machine itself, if you are so daring, you can get plans for the framework from openbuilds, and they hardware (rails and such) from inventables.

[@Damon_Barber]

I think in some video in the future, you and evil Outlaw Tamm should agree on the Green Door! “Now THAT’S something we can agree on!”

[@731Woodworks]

lol

[@MrMcoleman]

Hey - try the 3M mounting tape or mounting tape from Harbor Freight for work holding. It's thicker than your regular double sided tape and is a little foamy too, so if you don't have a perfectly smooth underside it still works well. It also adds a little space underneath your project so if you do accidentally blow through it there is less damage below. Love your content and looking forward to the "Light side" of CNC video.

[@Plrbear98]

The problem there is that it can mess with your pecision.if the foam gives a little, your stock is gonna move with the bit pressure so detailed cuts will be off the mark.

[@martindekker8203]

Generally when for no reason at all it cuts through your stock it's most likely it jumped a step (code) most times this can be fixed by slowing your feed-rate down. Best way to get your feedrates correct for different types of wood (hard-soft) is to test on some of cuts and adjust speed as it's running. You should get good looking chips, no dust. Then write those speeds down for each type of wood.

[@731Woodworks]

Thanks for the info!

[@thomasmcmahan2014]

Very nice! Pretty much covered what I wanted to hear as far as the cons/bad things go. I’m ready to see the good side. I plan to purchase the same setup you have whenever I get my new shop so I can have more room, so I might start toying around with the software side of things first to familiarize myself with the process so maybe it will be a little easier on me when I get the actual machine. Keep up the good work!