9 HUGE Lore Discoveries From The Elden Ring DLC

Shadow of the Erdtree, gave us all a lot to think about lore wise. While it didn't answer all of the questions I had, it still opened up a lot to be discovered.
In this video we look at 9 lore discoveries from the DLC, including the origins of the fingers, why Marika sealed the shadow realm, who Melina is, and how Ranni got her Dark Moon!
Thank you to ‪@bonfirevn‬ for their amazing video showing off Bayle
and to ‪@DSCinematics‬ for allowing me to use some of their cinematics.

[@spookd8700]

"Oh boy, I cant wait to get some answers!" "Why am I even more confused."

[@Dekuzek]

@@spookd8700 That seems to be the case with Elden Ring. The DLC has given answer at the cost of more questions

[@Glaedrein]

Yeah, that's typical from soft lol. Reminds me of Bloodborne in a way

[@peteybakedziti8908]

First From dlc? They've been answering 2 questions while raising 5 others ever since Artorias

[@WellManneredNate]

"I wasn't the moghlester! I was miquelested!"

[@rishg134]

Miquellested by Miquella the Tickla

[@cookiejoe5564]

Tricky Miq moment

[@aldosalas2722]

also, Miquella needed all that blood and bodies (from Dynasty) for the divinity gate and the shadow realm itself.

[@Dekuzek]

I never thought about this, that's interesting!

[@HeroTen10]

That would explain why the divine gate is so dry. That's what happens after you use it. Gotta recharge to use again.

[@Strode_Exe]

The Rellana one doesn't hold much water, to me. Neither of Rellana's moons are dark, the moons are even more visible in the Shadowlands, and she still uses the sorcery. Saying She abandoned the moon, it became dark for some reason, and then became Ranni's is a wild stretch. rest of the discoveries, I can get behind.

[@Dekuzek]

My logic is that we only ever know of two moons. The full moon and the dark moon. If we look at the item images of Ranni's Dark Moon and Rellana's Twin Moon, the Dark Moon is depicted as the overlapped moon in the Twin Moon image. eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ranni's+Dark+Moon eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Rellana's+Twin+Moons As for her being able to still cast the sorcery, I don't think that she would lose that ability even after discarding the moon, since it's not faith driven, her connection wouldn't matter.

[@Strode_Exe]

@@Dekuzek I meant more of as in the cast sorcery itself, both are the "full moon". In description sure the dark moon is present, I'll give on that. But the "abandoned the moon" part still doesn't hold, the closest is her "disavowing" her role as a princess/birthright so she can follow Messmer. Rest of her equipment/items still describes her as "of the moon".

[@min24434]

@@Dekuzek I don't see that at all. Ranni's Dark Moon looks like a new moon. Rellana's Twin Moons look like waning crescents. And Rennala's Full Moon looks like a full moon. If there are only two moons then that would also mean Rennala must have inherited her full moon from Rellana which makes no sense.

[@Cardulis]

I somewhat think the thing Marika reaches into at the gate is the gloam eyed queen. The "flesh" she is reaching into looks a lot like the clothes of the godskins. Further, death could be drawn to this place since she was the former wielder of destined death and could be akin to a death god.

[@Truthseeker740]

The gloam eyes queen stole the rune of death from Maliketh. I think this happens much later in the timeline

[@koteru4557]

I think that Marika was collecting her people's hair from the flesh which were stuffed in jars. Her hand has scars probably by something like the tooth whip, proving that she might me caught and tortured by the Hornsent. After approaching godhood at the gate of divinity, she came back to the Shaman's village and left a golden braid, found inside the trunk of a large dead tree (the only dead tree there).

[@Cardulis]

@@Truthseeker740 i think it was ranni who stole part of it from malaketh, who in turn got it from the gloam eyed queen after defeating her if I'm not mistaken.

[@Golden284-fan]

I was totally in on this theory, but there was nothing even hinting at the GEQ in the dlc. There was also nothing in the DLC that works against that theory either, so now I'm just completely lost. I have no idea how the rulling structure of the hornsent actually worked. So it still could have been GLQ. All I know is they were obsessed with horns and liked putting bitches in pots.

[@Glaedrein]

I wonder... Whatsername with the Lord of Frenzy... Perhaps she was the GEQ... Or at least related to it.

[@karayi7239]

Regarding Rellana, she only gave up her lineage in so far she gave up her birthright, as in, she's no longer heir to Caria since she'll be in the shadow land for good. She still uses carian sorceries, still has a carian knights stationed, still has the gift from her sister, and even her armor is carian-coded. She is STILL a Carian princess as per the twin moon sorcery description, she is STILL the twin moon knight as per her title. Additionally, we can know that she's still tied to the twin moon by her sword description as it states "Here, and here alone, were moon and fire ever together." Also, this is the quote of those who followed rellana into the crusade: "By your leave, we will accompany you wherever your lunar vessel takes you." implying she's still "tied" to her moon Lastly, "knowing full well that not even the brilliance of the moon could grant him succor" implies that she's going to the crusade while being "tied" to the moon. I struggle to see how she "abandoned" her moon when nearly everything points toward the opposite. It would also create issues timeline wise, since we know Gaius(leader of messmer's army) was chilling with Radahn in sellia pre-crusade, and Ranni discovered her dark moon in her childhood. This heavily suggests that Ranni discovered her moon PRE-crusade which means Rellana still hasn't abandoned her twin moon under your interpretation.

[@doug3318]

Divine towers were used to hide the shadow lands. Roderika is a sister/relative or Marika. House Hoslow is descended from the greater potentates. Melina is inhabited by the spirit / power of the Gloam Eyed Queen like Messmer and the serpent. Radagon was the spirit Marika used as her lord to ascend to godhood, and she used her own body as it’s vessel. Marika was a successful pot, a saint, to become the next lord. She betrayed and killed the prior god, a serpent or dragon form, from which she pulls strands of gold from its eye. The greater will abandoned the lands between long ago; Metyr and the Elden Beast were like two old robot probes, 2 of many such sent out to various worlds to terraform; they stopped receiving orders and were left to operate on old code, slowly corrupting and going mad with the passage of time (but instead of sci fi we reskin with gods and magic and there you go); Marika breaks the elden ring upon learning the truth. The divine gate is an entrance to the crucible, where life melds together (like the bodies comprising the gate) and gods are forged (Marika’s great rune also matches the shape of the gate). The Nox were trying to make their own divine gate, explaining all of the malformed and merged corpses in Ainsle River. Outer gods are drawn to the lands between because of Metyr who keeps trying to contact the greater will. The god devouring serpent was the god Marika usurped; itself a prior successful pot fused with shaman ability to merge bodies together - thus the devouring serpent’s ability to fuse with its defeated foes. And just like after we defeat it, it’s flesh can regenerate in another if consumed - as the old god was and secreted away to volcano manor behold Marika’s back to grow and eventually take back its place over Marika.

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

Good takes 👍

[@OtherPeoplesCars]

My head cannon goes like this. The Numen are from 'another world'. They arrived upon the world on which the Lands Between, Lands of Shadow (our world) exists via giant spaceships that appear to us as massive rune-covered coffins. The Numen were not like the Hornsent that occupied this region, and as a result their special powers appeared as magic, occult etc. As a result, they were called Shaman. They relocated to a village of their own, a place where they could prosper without fear of being attacked, farmed into jars etc because one of their traits as Shaman/Numen was an inherent ability to graft or be grafted. They were 'built different', more pliable, more compliant. Down the line, this could explain Godrick's ability to graft. And if all of Marika's descendents are also Numen, could explain their own great powers. The Hornsent staged a genocide against what was clearly a more powerful race. And wiped out all but one, in the shape of Marika. Anything of a high enough technology would surely be consided magic, think of Sam Raimi's Army of Darkness as an easy reference. Or, similarly Back to the Future. The Numen must have seemed so beyond anything supernatural the locals had ever witnessed. But at this stage, they were still a minority, easily squashed. Messmer would be Marikas weapon of mass destruction and tool of revenge.

[@Dekuzek]

I'm onboard with everything you said, but I'm not sure all the Numen were wiped out, since we know there are more Numen in the Lands Between, and that the Nox are descendants of the Numen. Still a lot to learn with the DLC

[@danielpayne7140]

Okay, I know everyone has been saying that Marika's new backstory makes her sympathetic or whatever but I firmly believe that the "seduction and betrayal" talked about in the story trailer and what we see happening is that Marika herself sold out her own people to the Hornsent and helped them create the Jars, "seducing" her way into the Hornsent's favor. The "betrayal" was both selling out her own people and against the Hornsent when she allies herself in secret with Metyr and the fingers, somehow using the new alliance and countless sacrificed Hornsent to "open" the gate of divinity (you can see some of the corpses of the gate have horns). The state of her home village and the mini erdtree erected there is our of guilt. Just like Miquella had to sacrifice aspects of himself for godhood Marika sacrificed her people so she sets a lil tree that heals anyone in the vicinity despite no one left alive to heal. The guilt could also be why the jar people exist in the Lands Between in their peaceful hidden village AND an extention of the guilt is projected onto Messmer as a hospital wing in his castle seems to imply he's trying to "fix" the jar peeps. Messmer might not be aware of why but maybe knows the jars cause Marika pain so he thinks trying to fix them will earn her favor. There's still sympathy I suppose but I don't think it's as clearcut as "Marika committed a genocide in exchange for a genocide" there's a reason she survived the treatment of her people and no others did. Hell maybe relinquishing her family was essential to becoming a God along with the sacrifice of others. Straight, Fullmetal Alchemist in this shit. Marika Philosopher's Stoned her people and the hornsent. THE TRUTH, EYES. I'm too baked for this.

[@Willie_Dickins]

People are really saying justice for Mohg as if he wasn't the leader of a cult of murderers lol

[@Dekuzek]

In all fairness, which demi-god isn't haha. He was the only one that was an alleged kiddy diddler, so I think that's why.

[@Dastardly_Duo]

I wouldn't have any love for the people who'd rather I be trapped in a sewer for hundreds of years either

[@Noizzed]

Contrary to the other cults of peace like the Golden Order, the Followers of Rot, the Frenzied Flame, The Hornsent, etc. Who've clearly done nothing bad.

[@delphidelion]

I'm pretty sure the strands are the different great runes coming together as a new Elden ring. The battle at the tower was most likely her obtaining the great runes from the hornsent, pulling the great runes from the bodies of those that held them before.

[@Dekuzek]

That does make sense. I've always believed it was shards of the Elden Ring, since it clearly takes the shape of Marika's rune.

[@ShadowedAgony]

I would love more discussion on the Finger Mother and also the Jars

[@seanconnors1613]

10:20 BonfireVN Zullie the Witch Garden of eyes Goats of Soulsborne info dumpers🎉

[@kizami3]

What made Midra a Sage? Was it that he could read the smithscript found in the fire of the Forges? Is that what led him to discover the Frenzied Flame? Why are flowers from the Shaman Village in his Manse? Was he one of them? Why does Nanaya look so much like Marika? Are she, and Midra, Marika's parents?

[@angeltzepesh1]

Having no lore on Nanaya and barely anything on Midra was the biggest disappointment in the DLC.

[@Dekuzek]

Agreed. I understand that the Abyssal Woods was supposed to be empty since it was forbidden, but that whole area is empty and doesn't give us much on the Midra & Nananya. Disappointing for sure.

[@ramoraid]

Nanaya was either a shaman or more like the Granny in the storage room. If you examine her body you can see the spiral braid curtians in her headwear and faintly a singular braid, similar to marika and miquellas, hairstyle.

[@bertyamgeebler1865]

Also the final unconfirmed fallen outer creature could be Astel?

[@Dekuzek]

I'm not entirely sure at this point. Part of the difficulty I'm having right now is the timeline. Was have so many event's without truly knowing their order which has making it difficult to know which things are connected.

[@bertyamgeebler1865]

On the location of the shadow realm - I think it’s not only below the lands between but also literally upside down/inverted - it’s been flipped into the ‘shadow’ of the lighted lands. Now there may be no connection but Metyrs arena ceiling looks like made out of some kind of stalk or tube pointing upwards, could just be a design choice but it evokes an undersea vibe that isn’t present elsewhere- for some reason that made me think the shadowlands themselves might be flipped away from the lands between mainland

[@teagancombest6049]

It looks like the underside of the elden beast area with all those trees in the distance

[@cyprusmiraque]

Check out the item rune descriptions again. It's likely that all of the Numen are Shamans. Also, I just realized that this explains the process of grafting.

[@danielcallahan2981]

Messmer has many parallels with the first born son in DS1. Marika wanted to erase him from history, and made every symbol of him (snakes, fire, and darkness/abyss) taboo under her rule in order to do it.

[@Dekuzek]

Hm, I never thought about how Messmer compared to the Nameless King, but I do agree. Good catch!

[@willienelsonmandelayeeehaw2203]

Probably because Mohg was the only viable choice. What are the alternatives? I don't think Enchanting Ranni was an option because she doesn't seem to be easily manipulated (he couldn't enchant Radahn either else he wouldn't have sent Malenia to try and kill him) plus she technically does not have a body. Malenia? maybe he didn't want to kill Malenia or she was just too rotten to use her body to revive Radahn. Rykard and Messmer already have been cursed by serpents so probably not a viable choice either and I don't think taking on Messmer without Malenia would even be possible. Godrick... yeah can't blame Miquella for not wanting him. Finally, there's Morgott. Yeah I think Morgott would outright kill him. He abandoned the golden order and is trying to take over with his age of gentleness over the age of the Erdtree. Morgott basically already enchanted by the Erdtree soo much so that he even hid the cursed bloodflame in his sword, I don't see any scenario in which they will convince him to turn his back at the Erdtree. The only thing I find odd is how impossible to manipulate most of his siblings/stepsiblings are except for Mohg. Only mystery I still scratch my head at is if he knew or met Melina. The Ranni/Melina/Miquella/Torrent dynamic is still a blurry. Ranni says she that "Torrents former master" entrusted her with giving you the spirit bell. Melina is the first person to greet us while riding Torrent and even speaks fondly to him to take care of us. But Miquella is seen riding a spectral steed in the Shadow of the Erdtree poster. So who is Torrents former master? Ranni surely knows of either Miquella or Melina but if the other two know of each other... beats me. That is if Miquella isnt just riding some other random spectral steed.

[@Dekuzek]

Yeah, I can see that. I think a further question I'm still thinking about is why Mohg was needed at all. Maybe the better question is what restrictions were on Miquella entering the Shadow Realm, because we and his followers enter by touching his arm. Clearly Malenia was aware of the plan, so if he just needed to die, I would think Malenia would agree to fulfill his wish. It's still a bit strange to me. As for Melina, Ranni, Torrent I am pretty lost on how this dynamic works. I do think that Torrent was Miquella's steed and that the Spirit calling bell was from Miquella. However, I think for Ranni at least, she gives it to us as a tool to defeat Miquella, knowing that he can't live if she is to bring her Age of Stars into being. Melina, is a different situation though, I'm not entirely sure Melina knows about Miquella. It's possible that she found Torrent left behind? Maybe Torrent, like St. Trina, also doesn't want Miquella to become a god.

[@mistakai4226]

That was Marika in the trailer.

[@TheRealJohnux]

​@@Dekuzekmy headcanon on the dynamic is that Melina and Ranni are enablers for Miquella to use us to further his goals. Think about it. Melina makes a Deal with us and gives us Torrent, her character arc ends in the burning of the Erdtree, something Miquella directly Profits from, since he sought to replace the Golden Order. And Ranni murdered Godwyn, making Marika shatter the Elden Ring and Set all things into motion. Again, Miquella Profits from this, also why would Ranni be ln possession of Items That belonged to Miquella and give them to us? She isn't doing so because she wants to, but because she is supposed to. I am a firm believer that Miquella is a direct Co conspirator in Rannis night of the Black knifes, as in he stole a fragment of the Rune of death for her and chose the target, but there is no direct evidence to proof this, so take that with caution. I say Miquella used them and us for his own gains.

[@alyandthecats]

What if the bell came from Trina? Ranni has put Kalé to sleep when she gives us the bell. Ranni also talks about her impending slumber. Maybe she connected with Trina via spirit slumber, and Trina tried to pass along what Miquella didn't need anymore. Trina is also shown to be able to give rest to beings that have been burned through Ghostflame, so maybe she had access to wherever Melina existed burned and bodiless too.

[@Dekuzek]

@@alyandthecats I like that idea! I had forgotten about the Sleep mist when we meet Ranni.

[@GB-sh9st]

Marika could have created two fingers. According to the finger nostrum item, humans could eat their eggs and become finger/human hybrids. Marika's two fingers do not look like Metyr's creations. You could still be right imo.

[@Dekuzek]

I appreciate that lol, I do find it strange that we don't see any two fingers at all, considering Metyr is supposed to have birthed them.

[@teagancombest6049]

Metyrs remeberance says she birthed the 2 fingers

[@EduardoNicoleit]

Pretty sure that Melina was born hosting the god of death (the same from the deathbirds) and Marika sealed Destined Death and with it the strength of this outer god. Once we release the rune of death the outer god comes back to Melina and she becomes the GYQ again.

[@sk8legendz]

6:10 If you look at Metyrs head you will notice. It is a wrinkly finger and in the center of it is a white eye which is exactly what we see Marika reach into in the trailer A pale wrinkly fleshed figures pale eye Both Metyr and the Elden Ring are Directly connected to the greater will. I'm certain it's Metyr we see as nothing else at all in the dlc matches up otherwise thus far

[@Dekuzek]

I never thought about that, could be the case!

[@bertyamgeebler1865]

metyr also has that weird big wound thing on her - i always assumed that was from birthing the frenzied fingies maybe but it could be the result of markias ascension?

[@sk8legendz]

@@bertyamgeebler1865 if the seduction and betrayal referred to Marika being seduced by the allure of the elden ring's power it's possible it was from her ascension process, if the elden ring was given to her by metyr then I think Metyr's wound is actually a subtle explanation for the Nox and the Fingerslayer Blade

[@Axindoor]

Since the Hornsent keep saying that Marika bettayed then, I imagine that Marika forged an alliance with them after showing them the guidance of the fingers There are finger ruins near the shaman village and Metyr can be found underground nearby, so Marika finding an eldrytch entity would be what the hornsent were looking for in their search for divinity. The Hornsent allow Marika to join them and take part in the project at the divine tower and when everything is set to happen, she starts her rebellion and has Messmer lead the genocide with their armies. I say this because Messmer is called the son of Marika, not of Queen Marika or Marika the eternal. The idea that Messmer hated marika is not sound, since he had the only statue of Marika not defaced in his own room and was aware of her plans and his tasks, he became a symbol of fear to keep the blame of the genocide away from her mother, since He would know of the atrocities the Hornsent commited against his mom, theres even a sick bay with malformed people as if he was also trying to find a way to cure them. Sadly after the shattering and Marika's imprisonment, Messmer and everyone else could start to believe that they were abandonned because there was no communication. Messmer held steady until we came about and defeated him, almost as if he had no idea of the plsn to shatter the golden order and make a new one

[@codeine69]

i believe marika used the rune of rebirth to reform the gloam eyed queen as melina

[@luckyowl6432]

Still get weird vibes from Mogh. I think Miquella forces affection and compassion not " share a bloody bedchamber" love. Almost like a PdfFile being mind controlled by an eternally young boy. Maybe thats why Miquella was fine recyling his body with a different " better" soul. TLDR: Moghlester would have Moghlested the Miquellester.

[@eternalnate]

I guess i didnt know people didn't realize that marika and miquelka were the villains. I was always on mohgs side.

[@pastorofmuppets4552]

Apparently the Greater Will is the Primeval Current and the Fell God is the sun.

[@UwUvatar]

The land of shadow WAS in the middle of the lands between. It was moved, by Marika when she was trying to hide her past.

[@nerozone_]

5:09 that shot looks crazy

[@takoyakiiii]

Another small channel with a banger video !!

[@TS-si4zz]

Awesome content, subbed! :)

[@ramoraid]

The land of shadow is very likely to be located in realm of the afterlife. The items related to Lightning and death knights all talk about the fact that many of his most loyal followers decided to follow godwyn into the land of shadow. Then the only evidence of godwyn being here is his post death face, his body was laid to rest in the roots of the erdtree so he could get a proper burial. The only conclusion that I can come up is that Godwyn "traveled" here once his body was laid to rest in the roots of the erdtree. This DLC and the base game make quite a notable mention of death rituals and ceremonies throughtout the ages of the lands between. This information is likely the key to make sense of what is going on with the lands of shadow. One cool detail is that the spirit ash "curseblade meera" description image reminds me of the deathbirds

[@SpencerCJ]

Ill rant my dumb theory here but I'm pretty sure that despite their being 3 finger ruins only 2 fell, Metyr and the Elden Beast. Metyr fell at the Rhea ruins, Rhea is phonetically identia to Rhia, the greek mother god who has her 10 Dactyles. Dhoe is where the Elden beast landed. The 3rd one I'm pretty sure is build after, their are no impacts like the other 2, just the bell where Metyr has been hiding. Metyr boss room btw in under the Elden beasts, we are under the water the Elden beast swims through

[@Dekuzek]

It's definitely possible that there are only the 2 'natural' craters. I think the boss room idea is really cool!

[@OtherPeoplesCars]

Surely the third, is Astel the fallen star?

[@Dekuzek]

Not entirely sure. Astel is said to have fallen on Nokstella, so I'm not sure. It's possible

[@HiroThatDude]

I am on my second Playthrough. I am so depressed that the DLC is over and we're not expecting anymore. I am hoping I'm wrong and they Surprize us. And I never feel this way for any game ever.

[@Dekuzek]

Yeah, I think the DLC was fantastic, but I think it left a few to many loose ends for my liking.

[@Ironbreeze53]

Messmer’s crusade was ordered after Godfrey’s Exile.(Radagon may have taken over at this time & Godfrey’s “loss of grace” may have just been the easiest way for the transition of power) The Gloam-Eyed Queen was not in opposition to Marika. Melina much like her brother followed Marika’s orders and her Godskin apostles killed the reigning lineage of Hornsent not Marika’s brood. Destine Death was sealed in the Black Blade after Marika’s enemies were dead. So she wouldn’t lose any other loved ones. (Which pushed her to shatter the Elden ring after Godwin’s death) The Shadow lands were sealed to hide not only Messmer but the divine gate along with the knowledge of the Secret Rite. Which may or may not have coincided with the Nox’s transgression against the Greater Will. Or possibly transgressed against Marika in the failed plot of the night of black knives in an attempt to usurp Marika by creating their own Lord/God. (Either the Nox failed because the Shadow Lands were sealed or they became the reason to seal the Shadow lands.)

[@sxynix1082]

Alright after the mogh lore expansion i will become a full fledged blood user, i thought he was weird and gross so i never got the white blood mask bout to +

[@OMGitsTerasu]

fromsoft should remake bale's fight with placidusax and show the full version of marika and radagon going back and forth trying to break and mend the elden ring.

[@firecat4529]

There is apparently a Elden Ring show in the works. If we're luck we might get to see these things in it.

[@algorithmicabyss4150]

I dont think any of the demigods with an associated butterfly were born directly of marika but instead a ritual like that which produced milicent as the shamen are implied to be born, not of a mother but a grandmother and the tree they fuse to With that ritual allowing for one being (the fusion of marika/radigon) to produce offspring

[@Dekuzek]

Interesting theory! Maybe the butterflies just happen to be a byproduct of it. Hmm I'll think on it

[@TheRealJohnux]

Melina herself stated she wasn't Born of a mother, it's a Dialog that often comes up when that topic is talked about.

[@zarodgaming1844]

it is almost dishonorable and predatory how miazaki can AI generate some item descriptions, and then have people assume they have meaning at all and they were intentionalsc💀

[@rusdaaymaan1480]

So could seluvises rise have been Rellanas in the past?

[@UnclePunchalot]

So you dont have to be Empyrian to become a God. Miquella discarded his Empyrian flesh and good chunk of his former self, yet he ascended to godhood. So what Empyrean means? People most tuned to house/be vessel of whatever cosmic entiti that was waiting behind devine gates? Is it me or every last Empyrean is like a magnet to otherworldly patrons (Malenia-Scarlet Rot, Rani-Moon, Miquella-highly likely Greater Will/ he probably didnt like his patron so he get rid of every last connection to it)(It's not confirmed that Messmer&Melina were Empyreans, Melina lost her body so we cant be sure who was her patron, on Messmer's case I think it was Abyssal Serpent)?

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Miquella most likely cut connection to the Metyr daughter of greater will rather than greater will itself that fled during Placidusax era.

[@ramoraid]

Miquella was cursed by the rot god along side her sister. The rot god two aspects are Decay and rebirth, malenia received rot, miquella received rebirth. Unlike anyone before miquella's unalloyed gold can interfere with outer gods power. He likely used unalloyed gold to remove much of his that outer gods influence but that could not remove his curse of being a child.

[@teagancombest6049]

Empyreans are bullshit, they're not special, they're just deluded by the delusional fingers.

[@UnclePunchalot]

@@ramoraid You're genious! I noticed that Saint of Bud's upper half is surprisingly similar to Saint Trina (+Saint of Bud has a color scheme combined of Malenia and St.Trina colors: St. of Bud's purple

[@leonlacroix2638]

I will say i was disappointed to find out the living hands are creatures of the finger mother. I liked what I thought was the glintstone classmates were just making beasts out of glintstone magic. Tho this opens up a few other questions like did Ranala have her own two fingers? Her daughter did.

[@Dekuzek]

I'll be honest, the Finger Creeper lore felt weird to me. Not sure what to make of it all right now, working on some theories.

[@aldosalas2722]

ofcourse Melina is the Gloam EQ, Maliketh seal her away. Marika needed her to skin all those people and kill any other God for her Golden order to be successful. Then the GEQ was seal and came Melina to guide the tarnish.

[@OWlsfordshire]

No Godwyn was whack enough, but the Radahn/Mohg/Miquella amalgamation we got for the final boss was just cringe.

[@Dekuzek]

I was okay with no Godwyn, simply because his soul was destroyed. But Radahn being Miquella's consort feels like it came out of nowhere with the rest of the lore.

[@Dastardly_Duo]

​@@Dekuzek But it didn't. It was there since the first trailer. I didn't really care for it, but I'm not gonna say it doesn't make sense just cause I didn't really like it

[@Dekuzek]

@@Dastardly_Duo I get that, it definitely feels bad as a player though.

[@Dastardly_Duo]

@@Dekuzek I completely agree. That's why I said I didn't really like it. I really they went about it a different way, maybe take a bit away from Lorian and Lothric's fight and how they complemented one another

[@MrJaxon620]

They didn’t answer the cliffhanger ending with Melina so the dlc is a fail lore wise

[@yojilou]

The dlc takes place during the game, not after the endings

[@christianolson8543]

So the canon ending to the original game is you becoming Elden Lord and becoming Marika’s consort, right? So the consort of Marika goes to the Scadu Lands and defeats all those opposing Marika.. that’s the barebones of the story?

[@jackalkhan5676]

Not really, you become the elden lord and decide the fate of the lands between. Marika's impotent at this point. A vessel for the elden ring alone. So if you wanna curbstomp some hornsent for whatever reason that's entirely on you.

[@leonlacroix2638]

Not really. Marika is elden lord. Her consort is Radagon and Godfrey (Hoarah Loux) That's kinda like a king but with less power. Essentially Marikas muscle.. You become elden lord and replace Marika. So I think she just dies.. 😮 You don't get a consort..you are madenless

[@TheScrootch]

Marika is the God, since she houses the Elden Ring. She is not an Elden Lord. Elden Lords are the consorts to Gods housing the Elden Ring, like Godfrey and Radagon.

[@christianolson8543]

@@TheScrootch right. So after defeating Radagon and Godfrey, you are the Elden Lord. The Elden Ring is restored and you are Marika’s consort. It is Miquella who is trying to replace her, as he is an Empyrean and capable of becoming a god. He uses his charming magic to control Radahn (presumably the strongest in The Lands Between) to be his consort, but is upstaged by the true strongest, Marika’s new consort, The Tarnished. That’s the story.

[@staxmcgee9760]

​@@christianolson8543 that's the story IF you go with the "mending ending". If you go with Ranni's ending, pretty much the same sitch just replace Marika with Ranni. 😉

[@Night-Lord]

I hate whenever they mention the demigods youth. It’s either they used to be way cooler or they suffered some sort of unimaginable trauma

[@teagancombest6049]

Yeah why can't from soft make a game where everyone is a cool badass who's never sad about anything and they have a sword the size of a mountain and they kill bad guys!

[@likuidsmoke5556]

I’m sorry but do we know if Messmer is the son of Radagon?

[@Dekuzek]

We don't know 100% but based on the naming convention, the butterflies and the supposed timeline, I am 90% sure he is, along with Miquella, Malenia, and Melina.

[@user-ww1gk5ku1w]

@@DekuzekPlus, he has red hair

[@seanconnors1613]

​@@user-ww1gk5ku1w Agreed, but is Melina's? Things that make you go hmmmm

[@jkramer5251]

Im just not sure i understand the time line because isnt messmer confirmed to be older than rennalas kids? If thats the case than messmer and melina would be much older than those 3 and we only start knowing of radagon once marika seperates herself and goes to war with rennala.

[@Dekuzek]

@@jkramer5251 So at the moment it seems that Messmer was born before after Godfrey was sent away, but before the Liurnian war, so he would be older than the children of Renalla. We don't know when Melina was born, just that she is younger than Messmer, it can be assumed that it was before Miquella and Malenia though.

[@10hawell]

Wait... Is metyr a gloam eyes queen?

[@Dekuzek]

I don't think so, but honestly the GEQ is up in the air right now, so I won't say no

[@10hawell]

They answer the questions i didn't care about, i would rather not know, some even make game retroactively worse and they didn't answer things I wanted to know. They could've put the dlc in distant future so we learn about past of land of Shadows but also get answer to cliffhangers in endings.

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

When did ever From resolve an ending cliffhanger? Surely not in any Souls game... 😏🤷‍♂️

[@armandaneshjoo]

4:40 Numen came here in gallions

[@Dekuzek]

@@armandaneshjoo I thought that was just speculation, do you know if it is confirmed somewhere? Item descriptions or dialog??

[@armandaneshjoo]

​@@Dekuzek The elm tablets in both eternal cities depict the arrival of galleons, and the introduction of life trees. DLC confirms it by showing us those galleons and where they landed. I don't know what you mean by "confirmed". I look for verification. If there are two reasons to believe one thing, I believe it. Dialog is unreliable. Item descriptions are inconsistent, implausible, unfeasible, unlikely, and out of chronological order.

[@OfficialChrissums]

I misread this as "The Numen came here in gallons"

[@Dekuzek]

@@armandaneshjoo I'm not entirely convinced. The Galleons depicted on the Uld Tablets turn out to be giant coffins, not boats. (if the structures in theCerulean Coast are the DLC Galleons you are referring to) Generally, I try to take Item descriptions as fact unless massively proven otherwise. So far, I haven't seen many (if any) item descriptions that have been completely proven to be false or inconsistent. Willing to be proven wrong though!

[@Dekuzek]

@@OfficialChrissums That would be a lot of em

[@Zepimo123]

It really just pisses me off that there is no new endings to the base game, and the ending to the DLC is kinda dogshit too, especially with St Trinas quest just dropping off. :c

[@Dekuzek]

Yeah, I loved just about everything in the DLC, except the lack of intro cutscene, the final boss, the lore of Miquella and the lack of a proper ending. After the Miquella cutscene I was confused as to what was next, but there wasn't anything. I am also really bothered by the lack of anything regarding the Scadutree Chalice and the massive tower. Feels like something should be there.

[@Zepimo123]

​@@Dekuzek I'm so happy someone finally agrees with me, I kept getting attacked by souls-elitists for not worshipping the 10/10 even though I clearly stated I still love it. I apology in advance for the inane ramblings but it really is important to me to get this off my chest. Its a hard thing to get across, but it 100% feels unfinished, this is evident in locations too, the Finger Ruins are completely empty, and the Abyssal woods feel like im exploring an unfinished location in an MMO that Im not supposed to be in. The ending is literally >before the final boss "Radahn is the consort of miquella" >during the final boss "Radahn is the consort of miquella" >after the final boss "Radahn is the consort of miquella but now in a still image cutscene." It just annoys me because of how much potential there is for more to happen in the game, yet Fromsoft will almost certainly abandon the IP like they did for Bloodborne and Sekiro. People keep telling me that "Oh you shouldn't be disappointed cause their other DLCs are like that too" But the other DLCs weren't presented as interconnected with the base game. No new interactions from Gideon, Melania, and the biggest offender Melina, who can literally still be with the player when you do the DLC. You kill a frenzy lord? Not a word from her, you kill her brother? Not a single peep, she's dead silent. There's no choices that matter at all, all the side quests feel like they are leading you up to optional endings, but they all just drop off and you are tunneled into one specific vague and disappointing ending, it feels like I did something wrong and got the "bad" ending? idk, Im sorry for the rant but its literally impossible to get this off my chest anywhere online without being labeled a horrible person for not liking it. I've come to the realization that there is never a reason to ever go through Enir-Illim again, Messmer is the true final boss, just go through it all the way to him and then just go finish the base game, theres no reward for beating the dlc, so why bother? In fact, thats part of the problem, Miquella is not standing in the way of the player at all, you can just ignore him and go become a god yourself with some of the main game endings. It just hurts man, Miquella was already shafted of an ending for the base game, and the trailers showed in-game cutscenes of Miquella addressing the player directly and unveiling the scadutree, but they seem to have cut that too. St Trina also has a cut ending, its just so upsetting that this is all we get. How Im gonna play Elden Ring in future playthoughs with the DLC is get all the way through Trina's Quest, then get all the way to the final boss but not fight them, then go back and finish the base game. Miquella deserves it, he had 2 unique endings shafted, poor lad. Maybe Ranni and Miquella can be friendos when I get the Ranni ending. nothing stopping you from doing that

[@Dekuzek]

@@Zepimo123 I think it's less of the DLC being unfinished and more a case of scope creep. I do agree that previous souls games were like this, but those DLC's were much different story wise IMO. With Elden Ring, I think the base game had so many idea, and story lines, and unanswered questions that the DLC would have had to be an entire base game over again to answer everything. Instead I think they decided to cover a few of the main points, close Miquella's story (unsatisfying or not) and leave it at that because the game had SO much going on. DS games were different because 1) we had 3 games to explain the story, lore, timeline etc. and the souls games, did not have nearly the same story complexity that Elden Ring did.

[@Zepimo123]

@@Dekuzek I really think the DLC was originally supposed to be 2 seperate DLCs, one for Marika and the ScaduTree and another for Miquella.

[@scarvello]

The butchering of the names 😂

[@Dekuzek]

Which names did I butcher? The only one I'm aware of is Ranni, I have a habit of saying that one wrong but I believe all the others are correct.

[@blacksleevepoet]

What if Miquella is The Formless Mother?

[@travman1987]

What if Miquella is Torrent?

[@StabbyJ]

​@@travman1987what if torrent made sweet sweet love to daedicar

[@leorev214]

Learn to make thumbnails buddy

[@Dekuzek]

Everyone starts somewhere. It's my fifth video, learning everything as I go. Thanks for watching

[@craneology]

There is zero evidence for the location to be in the center, as you stated. You can't just say it was confirmed. Your 'clear' indicators are not clear at all.

[@tylerhassett9120]

The evidence is the tower stating it's the center of the lands between.

[@TheRealJohnux]

​@@tylerhassett9120It truly is as on the nose as it can be and people still have doubts.

[@staxmcgee9760]

This comment is WILD 🤣😅

[@Golden284-fan]

Hahaha 😂 that was like the one thing that was actually flat out stated in the DLC.

[@Furionic696]

Just that one piece of direct evidence that states exactly this lmao