#91: NanoVNA Initial Observations

[@w0qe]

Thanks for the comments about the history, links, and new stuff in the works. Larry, W0QE

[@jimithy70]

Hi Jim, Great video. Your voice is clear with constant volume perfect for my 81 year old hearing which is very important to me... .Jim / W1FMR

[@w0qe]

Thanks Jim.

[@justinle998]

Thank you for that 100ohm resistor trick. Good to know! Great presentation

[@adilmalik7066]

Some more about the history, because Thomas design and the nano VNA are related! Thomas Baier VNA was the first famous homebrew VNA. It employed a DDS with a very clever alias mixing technique to improve frequency range. Thomas then seemed to have an agreement and sold the design to SDR kits who sell kits based of his design. Now the nano VNA was designed by a Japanese radio amateur who actually cited Thomas VNA design as his premise for the nano VNA. He has essentially used the same rough architecture that Thomas used. For example, the nano VNA directional coupler topology and mixer are identical to Thomas design. The only major difference is Thomas used an expensive DDS synthesizer and alias mixing to extend freq range, where as the nano VNA uses the Si lab synthesizer chip and more conventional harmonic mixing.

[@JUANKERR2000]

I bought one and not only was it too small for my near octogenarian eyes, but it was also too dim and I had to return it.

[@Bazzawombat]

For what you pay for it, it seems great, and, at such a low cost you could put it in a larger, more robust case & fit external type N connectors.

[@ErnestGWilsonII]

I bought a similar VNA, also from Amazon, approximately a year later and next generation compared to the one you have, only difference is a slightly larger screen, but I have the exact same complaints. Very rarely and only when necessary do I use the unit in standalone mode to quickly take some readings off of an antenna. Most of the time I have the VNA hooked to the laptop and I use the nano VNA saver program that allows multiple more data points and I don't have to deal with the touch screen and of course I can do screen captures and export the file and all kinds of things you can do on a laptop. Thanks for making this video and I am of course subscribed with notifications turned on and thumbs up! 73 W3GUY

[@WestCoastMole]

Hi Larry About 5 years ago I purchased a SARK-110 Antenna Analyzer. It has most of the same functionality as the NanoVNA but its operating software specifically tailored to antenna work. Also its upper end frequency tops out at 225 MHZ but it has the same type of display as does complex functions such as Smith Charts. It also has a nifty function of converting the load that it is seeing into to lump components. I purchased mine when they first came out and it was purchased straight from the manufacturer. I encountered some delays getting it through customs as there was an intellectual property legal battle going on with another manufacturer in the US. At the time I paid 200 Bucks for it. I have since found out the price has risen to 350 to 475 bucks depending on where you purchase it. Now we these NanoVNAs that do the same thing that can be had for as little as 60 Bucks for the 900Mhz model or 120 Bucks for the 1.5Ghz model. My how technology can move fast. 73s K6TR Bob

[@Nobody-ld7mk]

What a great learning tool the Nano's are, really puts the Smith system into perspective and then some. All your tutorials are 4.0 ! No doubt your videos are now required reading/viewing in advanced learning around the Country.

[@w0qe]

Thanks "Nobody" 😃 Larry, W0QE

[@timbacchus]

I would think small would be good for taking up the tower. I wonder if you can see the screen in the sun light?

[@w0qe]

Tim, The NanoVNA is nearly impossible to read outside if it is sunny without shading it. You could set up the measurement that you want to make before going up the tower, make the measurement at the top of the tower, and then look at or upload to a PC once on the ground. Larry, W0QE

[@lyfandeth]

I've got 20/20 (6/6 outside the US) and there's no question, the screen text is DAMN TINY.

[@dane1234abc1]

Wonderful video, thanks! At 17:33 "vaiants" should be "variants"? (grin).

[@RuneBroberg]

I hope you enjoyed using my software. :-) There is a wiki with some info on groups.io, and there are a few people trying to keep it up to date. I know there are people working on the capture-and-load functionality you are requesting. Averaging on-device and smaller steps than 100Hz is also either done, or being worked on, in some of the newer firmwares. :-)

[@w0qe]

Rune, Are you familiar with SimSmith? SimSmith combined with a VNA capable of exporting data can do amazing things. I would have given just about anything to have had these tools available when I was a kid. Your latest version of NanoVNA Saver 0.1.4 is very good. 73, Larry, W0QE

[@RuneBroberg]

@@w0qe Hi Larry, I'm aware of it, but I haven't used it much - frankly, most of my hobby time has been spent updating NanoVNA-Saver, so I've self-imposed a development break of a week in order that I actually try doing some other things. But the support requests for the latest version has started coming in, so I don't know if I'll manage to do much .. ;-)

[@blind1337nedm]

you say its small, but did you know its possible to use on your computer, and use the screen and everything?

[@blind1337nedm]

your PC screen i mean

[@stevec5000]

Has anyone figured out what the second port on the device does and how to use it?

[@attilathehun5904]

Hi Larry. You make excellent videos and this one is no exception. A piece trivia that you didn't address - you can calibrate the NanoVNA itself. You can also do a calibration through nanovna-saver. I believe that the nanovna-saver calibration is on top of the calibration of the NanoVNA, so if you recalibrate the NanoVNA directly it will mess up any calibration you've done with nanovna-saver. Thanks for making excellent videos! P.S. I'm still waiting for my NanoVNA-F to show up from AliExpress.

[@kv5r]

Hello Larry, Love your videos! It's important to use the latest firmware, as it is rapidly evolving and improving. I got a unit about 3 weeks ago that is exactly like yours (but from a US ebay seller, at $60). It came with an August ttrftech (edy555) firmware. I flashed it with the latest Hugen-AA firmware, which has a ~2x larger screen font (13px vs. 7px high), but displays only 2 simultaneous traces, not 4. It makes it much more usable as an antenna analyzer in the field. In both the edy555 and hugen firmwares, recent (October '19) versions have several more graphs; ability to switch to DFU mode with menu (not jumper) for firmware flashing; a TDR mode; and other improvements. Yes, the jog wheel is a bit quirky, but it's not the switch, it's the way firmware scans it (I think). Most users just use the jog wheel for moving markers, and touch menus for everything else. It does work smoothly moving markers, which are a bit iffy to drag with a stylus. Like you, I wish it could store a sweep, (or perhaps better, use bluetooth), for capturing S-params in the field. A v.2 nano is in the works that will have more memory, and thus be able (hopefully) to store sweeps. New nanoVNA users should be pointed to the groups.io/g/nanovna-users Wiki and Files sections (requires free acc't), to easily locate the various latest user manuals, firmware, and pc software. As you said, the message section is very busy, but using Search will yield results on almost any question. 73, --KV5R

[@w0qe]

Thanks for all the info and I'm sure others appreciate it also. Larry, W0QE

[@stephenjones9153]

Just one small point these do work fine using any Samsung Android phone that has a USB C port and also no problems with Android Tablet,s. No idea if they work with Apple tho. They are amazing value when used with an Android App.

[@W4BIN]

Larry, you asked: Twice your said at (or to) three GigaHertz when the screen said the frequency range was 50 kHz to one GigaHertz. Otherwise FB. Ron W4BIN (I want a nanoVNA-f)

[@muppetpaster]

8:12 We call that a stylus

[@opencct]

I've just bought the NanoVNA-F will the VNA Saver by Rune Broberg work with this?

[@w0qe]

Denis, I do not have a NanoVNA F but there is a nanovna-f group on groups.io which can answer this question. Larry, W0QE

[@wb7ond]

Great Video, Thanks for the time and editing... I found the "jogging" wheel best used when moving the marker. I have not been able to move the marker with any accuracy with my finger or "pen"... I also discovered it seems the touch screen is "resistive" so a pointy object gives me more accuracy than the "knobby" rubber capacitive pointer. Again thanks for this and your other informative vids. wb7ond

[@rubund]

Really great videos you make Larry! I think it would be interesting with a video explaining "When is not a NanoVNA good enough for measurements at HF frequencies and when should you consider getting a professional VNA."

[@w0qe]

Rubund, I'm not sure that the Nano VNA or any of its variants are not good enough for most measurements at HF. However a "professional" VNA will have a constant power output vs frequency and that value will be user adjustable. Also the noise of the professional VNA will be lower allowing the measurement of filters with stopbands such as crystal fillters. The Nano VNA is "good" for many measurements especially when using software to display the results to a larger screen. These are just my opinions and hopefully the line of Nano VNA type devices will continue to improve. I would like to see better packaging, improved noise, and a larger screen (maybe about 5-6 inches) for a few hundred dollars. Larry, W0QE

[@rubund]

@@w0qe Thanks for your input. Maybe the square wave output also is unfortunate in some situations. I bought a HP 8753c a couple of years ago. I have not used it as much as I hoped for, but now that I got the NanoVNA I have done most of the things I initially planned to use the 8753 for.. Making me think I do not really need to keep the expensive unit. :D It is so much more convenient to bring the small device to where I need to make the measurements.

[@AF6LJSue]

Good video I suspected the generator output to be less than pure. Still It's good enough for many things.

[@rajendrarajkumar6483]

Sir power diode ke paller me resistance capacitor sunbber curcite me resistance, capacitor ka value kase nikale pl. Video kanye

[@googacct]

Thanks for the informative video. My thought on making this more portable is to maybe hook up a pi zero, run something like Django and setup a browser interface.

[@stephenwilliams5201]

Last one i trained.on was far advanced. For its time. To say. This is fort Gordon Ga. South Eastern signal school. And it was as big a small fridge. Had a key board , and printer. Enter parameters. And attach the antenna. And " execute" ...and get reading.after 5 minutes. some 5o years ago.what a change. Sgt williams

[@youngsanger]

Nanovna applications are growing faster than that silly menu system can handle. Soon someone will dump the display and hook it up to our chromebook via USB and utilize a professional interface.

[@californiakayaker]

If you were to increase the size, might as well go with the 7 inch touch screen. That said, requires a lot of programming, or knowing someone with a lot of time with whom you can get them interested. Similar to the uBITX which caught the interest of Ian, of Hamskey.com , who built many versions and displays with all of the sketches set up for Nano Arduino's. He's now interested in a different network analyzer which only recently added a second port. Too bad he wouldn't take on one of the better VNAs . There is a measurement device out that has better sig to noise (they say) than any of them but terrible display and no smith chart. Might be the one that needs to be fleshed out, and comes in a nice black box so person could mount n's on It I believe. The software and display would need to be fleshed out. Its called the Antuino. Same builder as the uBITX . It began as a miniature but got much larger before going to production so thats what you get.

[@TheRetiredtech]

Often the jog wheel has a bad solder joint.

[@MrDeeejaaay]

Hi Larry, Thanks for your excellent videos. You bring a refreshing (read - no drama -) style to youtube. Thanks for taking the time to make and edit these videos. I have had success in taking a measurement in stand-alone mode, pausing the "stimulus" and then connecting to a PC. You have to touch the screen on the NanoVNA to get the USB to wake up but it will read and display the static data. Doug WA7DJS

[@allthegearnoidea6752]

I just bought one of these and plan on doing a review on my channel. I have to say unlikely that i can add anything to your review excellent many thanks. Regards Chris

[@w0qe]

Thanks Chris!

[@The.Doctor.Venkman]

Great video and very informative. Thank you!

[@paolonervi2208]

Excellent video Larry...as always! 73 de IU1CYF

[@loueckert4970]

Excellent video, thanks a lot! Suggestions about NOP is right on, need more number of points and averaging. I guess you get what you pay for. If you want to have all of this and much more, look at the Keysight Field Fox. You get what you pay for! 73 de KT1R Lou

[@w0qe]

Lou, There are several new fairly inexpensive VNAs that should appear in the near future which are reported to have some respectable features. Time will tell. Larry, W0QE

[@dave-d]

Most appreciated. Thank you.

[@W4BIN]

Larry, you asked: Twice you said at/to three GigaHertz when the bloody thing is limited to one GigaHertz. otherwise FB. Ron W4BIN (I want a nanoVNA-f) I LOVE simsmith

[@w0qe]

Ron, When I mentioned the "at/to 3GHz" I either mis-spoke or wasn't specifically referring to the Mini-VNA but maybe I wasn't clear enough. I agree that SimSmith is really a great tool. Larry, W0QE

[@g00glian0]

I learned so much! Thanks!

[@muppetpaster]

Dead batteries do NOT charge, hence the name DEAD.

[@rjinnh3933]

Good info. Good job!

[@galileo_rs]

Nice overview, do you plan on doing a video with some performance tests? So far only compaints that I have seen about the Nano is dynamic range and the design of the bridge that, apparently, limits the measurement to less than 1K. Also if you are interested, another "youtuber" did a fairly extensive tests in a few videos, one of the more interesting bits: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXuxfqGnbcp3Zqc

[@w0qe]

Dragan, I had planned on waiting until the NanoVNA had the ability to average samples when both calibrating and scanning before publishing performance tests. If the final result is the ability to only measure impedances up to 1k ohm that would be a significant problem IMHO. Thanks for the links. Larry, W0QE

[@galileo_rs]

@@w0qe That is probably a good idea, not sure where I read the 1K claim, tried to find it but ...

[@galileo_rs]

Found it but it seems that the initial conclusion was wrong and that it was due to bad measurement method: groups.io/g/nanovna-users/topic/33508471

[@adilmalik7066]

VNA are generally only accurate for measuring impedances in the vicinity of 50 ohms. There are certain ways to connect DUTs ( 1 port Shunt vs 2 port series-thru vs 2 port shunt-thru ) that are better than others when measuring very large or very small impedances. Bad accuracy beyond 1K sounds reasonable.

[@retro440]

Thanks for the great video. I'm new to NanoVNA and VNAs in general. I'm in a perpetual state of confusion. In just trying to learn some basics, I scan a 40-meter center fed wire dipole and compare the NanoVNA SWR results with results from two other ham-type SWR bridges. The two bridges pretty much agree with each other, the NanoVNA shows results that aren't even close. I'm still working on understanding these results. DE K0CRX

[@radiok2ua]

Props for calling the MFJ what it is!

[@muppetpaster]

I do not understand your "complaint" about the ¨scratched" protective film because that is how it comes from the roll. Just remove and done!!! And what is the difference between what you ordered and what you got??

[@w0qe]

The comment about the plastic protective film was because it was scratched quite a lot but it did protect the display behind it. I doubt that the plastic film was scratched that much on the roll. I showed what I received and don't remember saying that I got something different than what I bought. Larry

[@vidasvv]

Great video, TNX 4 the upload! 73 N8AUM

[@paolonervi2208]

100% agree with your opinion on the NanoVNA.. Thank you for the time you dedicate in making your super useful videos. 73 de IU1CYF

[@w0qe]

Thanks Paolo

[@jimbrown1559]

Thanks for the detailed review, Larry. I often use a VNA to measure antenna Z and feedline length, then export to SimSmith to design networks. An analyzer that can't do that is of limited use to me. I did buy the FA-VA5, which I find quite useful as a field instrument, and the ability to run it under DG8SAQ's software is a huge plus. My neighbor, an EE prof at UC Santa Cruz, has noted some issues with how voltage is sampled, that limits accuracy, and he's toying with improving it.

[@w0qe]

Hi Jim, One thing for sure is that the NanoVNA has generated a huge amount of interest in a device that probably should be owned by most everyone interested in RF. I suspect there will be a few hardware iterations before things settle down but ultimately the amateur radio community will benefit. Larry, W0QE

[@donaldsmith3048]

Thank you for the information. W4DES

[@davideisenberger6197]

Thank you for the video - I guess it comes down to how much one wants to pay for this unit - mine cost $ 48.00 came with battery & all accy’s- unfortunately, when I turn the unit off, one of the LED’s remain on and eventually drains the battery- but for such an inexpensive unit that does what it does I am truly amazed. I worked with HP8753E Analyzer’s at work for many years in the 90’s and so I am quite impressed. Seems every one is coming out with upgrades and next generation of this unit. However I do appreciate your time in producing this excellent video!

[@w0qe]

David, My NanoVNA works similarly to yours in that the LED remains on for several seconds after turn off the unit. However my battery doesn't seem to drain when the unit is off. The original schematic by edy555 would seem to confirm this. I really don't know what and how many variants there are. Larry, W0QE

[@robertward1425]

Excellant. Bought the "F" and as you said older eyes. Not a lot of instructions with the unit as received, so learning a great amount from videos. Two points; first, my MFJ 259 has just been great in giving me just enough information to have fun. And secondly, bought the AIM UHF years ago and was totally frustrated in trying to make it work. I let it go for the price of a nice dinner. Keep up the good work.

[@w0qe]

Thanks Robert! Larry, W0QE