981: How Kirtland Temple Sale Affects Visitors (Rick B)

[@UVJ_Scott]

Many of my ancestors lived in these hallowed historical sites, most in Nauvoo. Following the martyrdom of Joseph a large percentage of them followed Emma and became members of the “Reorganized LDS Church”.

[@jonathanfelt2529]

I like your attitude, Rick Bennett, toward our Missouri brothers and sisters. They have THE SAME descendancy of priesthood from Joseph Smith, Jr as we do and their case is arguably even more solid than our succession story. Brothers like you will get us back together.

[@ClintThomsen]

@@jonathanfelt2529 sounds like you’re a member of the wrong church.

[@jonathanfelt2529]

@@ClintThomsen Not sure what you mean, but do you think a single church will ring in the New Jerusalem? You aren't saying our MIssouri cousins are unworthy are you?

[@ClintThomsen]

@@jonathanfelt2529 I’m disagreeing with your assertions about their priesthood lines and claims to authority. They have also disavowed much of the doctrine of the restoration.

[@jonathanfelt2529]

@@ClintThomsen They really, really haven't disavowed what you may be thinking. They kept, for example, the structure of the priesthood more in line with the D&C than we did. Their claim to authority is plausible and very precious to them through Joseph's son. If you know something they actually "disavowed," let us know.

[@ClintThomsen]

@@jonathanfelt2529 how many of them believe the Book of Mormon to be a true historic document? What are their views on chastity- especially as it relates to LGBT?

[@douglasnielson8250]

I remember the rope. It was tied to the front wall between the main entrance doors. I got to ring it in the 70’s. The only thing that supports the back of the bell tower is two vertical beams inside the wall. The beams sit on their own foundations in the basement. It isn’t a very strong building at all.

[@AndrewEClark-mz6ch]

Rick, you definitely need to interview Gary Boatright.

[@AndrewEClark-mz6ch]

There are TWO homes in which Joseph and Emma lived in Kirtland. The other home is much smaller and is on the other side of the same road and is still under research and renovation. The 'Brighamites' own both.

[@GospelTangents]

Thanks for the info!

[@stevenelkins2490]

The Native American graves are connected to the Hopewell mound builders.

[@douglasnielson8250]

The Kirtland Temple’s outside walls have no foundation. They just dug trenches and started laying the stone. The original stucco had to be completely replaced and the stucco cracks because there are no expansion joints in the walls. This was a building constructed by people who were not really experts in masonry construction. There were excellent carpenters like Brigham Young who constructed the oval window on the third floor. The Community of Christ limited the number of people who could be on the third floor because the floor is structurally weak. It’s a miracle the building still stands and doesn’t have serious settling problems.

[@beaton8844]

I’ve thought of the Kirtland Temple as the Mount Sini of the restoration. It’s interesting to see the operation of eternal principles always come into play. The financial difficulties of the RLDS/Community of Christ Church, in my mind, came about because of not following the Lord’s economic principles. Hence the need to sell.

[@Misa_Susaki]

I'm sure some people would be highly offended by that view. I can't say you're not allowed to share your own opinions, though.

[@jonathanfelt2529]

@@Misa_Susaki I wouldn't worry about the huberis of the church members. Yeshua, or Lord, is in charge, and our opinions are mostly useless until we return to Him.

[@xenuburger7924]

The Lord's economic principles involve throwing over the tables of money changers.

[@Misa_Susaki]

@@xenuburger7924 Is this accurate to say? Surely we shouldn't apply modern ideas to a 1,500 year old text without some contextual interpreting.

[@beaton8844]

@@Misa_Susaki : I’m sure that the majority of modern Christianity would be and are offended by many of the Lord’s principles and truths. They were when the Gospel was restored and have been ever since. Joseph didn’t teach the gospel to make a living. He had translated 2 Nephi 26:29 and Mosiah 18:24-26. I would think he knew the story of Simon and Peter in Acts 8:9-24. These scriptures indicate part of the Lord’s economic principles. As with most of modern Christianity the RLDS/Community of Christ Church did not embrace these principles nor consider the lilies of the field. If you have a different opinion I would like to understand the basis for it.

[@stephenhart-s3x]

The lds church rebuilt the Joseph smith home in Kirkland

[@GospelTangents]

Thanks for the info.

[@RyanLopezlove]

Selling the inspired version of the Bible and Joseph and Emma’s paintings bothers me most.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

What's wrong about the inspired version?

[@RyanLopezlove]

@@charlesmendeley9823I love the inspired version. I’m sad that the RLDS church sold it!

[@ClintThomsen]

When you're going bust, you do what you gotta do.

[@chrisdowns422]

CoC doesn't want to be associated with Joseph Smith.

[@GospelTangents]

I don't agree with that sentiment, as it seems overly broad. Some members may not want to be associated, but I know many more who do. Either way, it doesn't matter. They trace back to Joseph Smith, so they are associated.

[@chrisdowns422]

@@GospelTangents I agree I was being overly broad. I do not think I am being overly broad as to the leadership. Thanks for keeping us informed.

[@jeffkunce8501]

​@@GospelTangents CofC folks are starting to break the silence. Sunstone UK just published this good presentation by David Howlett kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYHUaZyhdrCbo6M

[@jeffkunce8501]

​@@GospelTangentsHave you seen David Howlett's Sunstone UK presentation? It just came out on KZbin today - I posted a link but the comment was deleted. I think CofC folks are starting to discuss the sale more, publicly.

[@ClintThomsen]

@@GospelTangents It's tough for me to have empathy for them re: the sale. I listened to a ton of CoC sermons(?) after the sale and not a single one mentioned Joseph Smith (or Jesus, frankly).

[@dville_dude]

Please understand and remember that the murals were not original to the Salt Lake Temple when the pioneers built it; they were added decades later. If the pioneers who built it visited the temple with the murals, they might not recognize it. It's all about context.

[@GospelTangents]

So is that a good reason to destroy them? Seems like a specious argument to me. Because I doubt they're going to try to make it original. Plus they saved the murals in Manti which also weren't original.

[@dville_dude]

No. Not a good reason to remove them. But the restoration takes the temple back to be “closer to the original design-which the pioneers intended.” Not knowing, of course, that we’d come in later and slap some murals on their walls 😅 The temple didn’t originally have white walls, either. And those were painted over too. I loved the murals and I was a bit taken aback when they decided to remove them. However, stepping back (myself) I realize the immense work that needed to be done to properly restore/reinforce the temple and most importantly to expand its capacity to serve all members who may wish to visit the Church’s “flagship” temple. Now, being able to easier accommodate 80 languages the temple will be able to move patrons through more efficiently and with the shortening of the endowment session-more quickly. I think the redesign of the Church Office Building Plaza-with all the flags from the nations is a perfect complement to the temple’s expanded “international” capacity. Let’s face it - nothing made by man lasts forever. But the Gospel and our relationship to our Heavenly Father and our families will last forever. The temple is merely a vehicle to help us in our journey. I believe our pioneer ancestors (of which some were mine) that built the temple would be pleased with our efforts to preserve and protect it. I believe they’re cheering us on from the other side of the veil. ❤

[@rconger24]

Hi Brother Rick. I like my rootbeer bottle from the CAC Joseph Smith Red Brick Store. The Native American graves at the Smith Properties have been generally known about by the Heartlander community in recent years. Something about trenching for electrical conduit. Rod knows. Visited Phoenicia museum in mid August '23. Lovely place, but I'm nerdy about Phoenicia. :)