9Marks at Southeastern 2012 - Conversion: Session 6

[@omamikels7091]

Heck Yeah!

[@EpcotBob]

I respect Matt Chandler, and boy, he is passionate about his interpretation of Eph 2:8, but I'm convinced his interpretation is simply wrong. Salvation is the gift being referred to in this passage, not faith. Faith is the agency by which the gift is obtained. Jesus plainly said that WHOSOEVER shall believeth in Him, will not perish. Predestination has nothing to do with God picking and choosing some for salvation and rejecting the rest, what's predestined is that those who come to Him (anyone) through faith, will be conformed to the image of His son. It's not God's will that ANY should perish, but that ALL would come to repentance.

[@DownwardsRising]

Chandler describes the foreknowledge according to free will view as being able to see whether someone puts their faith in Christ or not, and predestine them accordingly. I think that's a good description. However, his assertion is a non sequitur that said faith freely given by God implies no choice whether or not to put that faith in Christ. He has not explained how freely given faith cannot be neglected, and thus, rejected. According to Chandler's own description of foreknowledge according to free will, an individual maintains agency over the faith that God gave him. So foreknowledge of free will is not "shattered on the rock of Ephesians 2," because Ephesians 2 does not exclude the possibility that someone can still choose not to exercise the faith that they have been given appropriately.

[@noahmichal1269]

“It is not God’s will that any should perish.” But we know that some people will perish. Does that mean God’s will doesn’t come to pass then?

[@EpcotBob]

@@noahmichal1269 - In His sovereignty, he allows mankind to choose “whom they will serve”. It is His will (i.e. desire) that ALL would come to repentance, as clearly stated in 2 Pet 3:9, but not all do. Don’t confuse sovereignty with will or desire. If a sovereign king makes a decree, and then people in his kingdom reject the decree, they will get punished, but it doesn’t call into question the kings sovereignty.

[@Mathew247]

Whom he foreknew refers to Israel and "predestined" refers to the remnant of Israel. [Rom 11:7 NKJV] 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the ELECT (of Israel) have obtained it, and the rest (of Israel) were blinded. (see Isaiah 6 ) Trackin with that Matt ?

[@Mathew247]

Oh I get it now, Matt. God doesn't force anyone to love Him as you correctly state and yet your whole sermon is based on calvinistic predestination. So God just "shows Himself" to people knowing that as a result they can do nothing else but ....love Him? Ummmmm....isn't that equivalent to forcing people to love Him?

[@brentclarke4528]

+contemplate Force or respond to God in the very manner in which we were created for - To love and worship and enjoy God? If this is force, then may I embrace Him forever, knowing that He is good and that He alone brought me to a place that I was incapable of doing on my own, to respond to His love. For I was Dead in my sin, separated from God, and did not know the joy of being in union with Him - I was powerless. But His Grace, Sovereignty and Love saved me.

[@Mathew247]

Brent Clarke You were most certainly able to believe and trust Jesus. If you're saved you did just that. That's the criteria for salvation. For God so loved the world that whosoever believes..... Fact of the matter.....the bible doesn't teach predestination for all who get saved, but for only a chosen few in Israel 2000 years ago. "Many are called, few chosen"

[@chriseasterly5142]

How do you deal with Roman 9.

[@Mathew247]

Chris Easterly To whom are you addressing your comment?

[@chriseasterly5142]

you