9mm+P VS .357 Magnum in Snub Nose Revolvers - Federal HST Ballistic Test

Testing the Federal HST ammunition in 9mm+P and .357 Magnum in a 10% Clear Ballistics gel test. The 9mm+P is a 124 gr JHP rated at 1,200 FPS and the .357 Magnum is a 154 gr JHP rated at 1,340 FPS. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...

[@GunSam]

I want to make a stupid mention, but it might be worth mentioning. For instance when I said here "I went about two months without an error read", you guys may have seen errors reads more recently, but that's because I rarely release my videos in filming chronological order. I have a habit of filming nearly the same exact same video over and over again (same calibers/guns but with different ammo varieties), so to mix it up I will place previous or later filmed videos between them. I just want to mention this because without this knowledge I look either like i'm dumb or a liar.

[@somebloke13]

Sam, don't sweat it lad. We all know there are donkeys out there who moan about EVEYTHING, so be cool bro!

[@Michigan4Conservative]

I've been watching your content for years. Your content is as honest as it gets. Even if there is something mis-stated, I challenge anyone that would criticize your honesty or integrity to reflect on their own life and actions before casting stones at others. Keep on being yourself Sam.👍 Great channel.

[@MichaelKMorris]

I picked up a Garmin chrono...works excellent indoors or out. It just doesn't work in the rain 😅

[@johndilday1846]

No problem.

[@michaelkeselman]

I don't understand how this channel doesn't have at least twice the subscribers.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

A little thing called senzorschip.

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

Wish Federal would offer those .357 HST in 125-135gr

[@GunSam]

I agree. Their .357 Sig is 125 gr and does well, no reason they can't do the same thing with the .357 Mag.

[@jonclark8155]

Agree 👍

[@GunSam]

This .357 Magnum ammo is the same .357 Magnum ammo in my last video, but through the 4" barrel. So Instead of the 1,091 FPS average from this 2" snub, the 4" barrel averaged 1,291 FPS, exactly 200 FPS more. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpzJloisl9-Mfc0

[@64samsky]

I like the 125 grain projectile in both 357 Mag as well as the 357Sig.

[@ESMaddock]

Charter Arms Pitbull in 9 mm is designed to eject without moon clips.

[@jamespugh]

Yes the pit bull from chart arms only one I think in 9mm or 40s&w that no moon clips needed

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Also .45acp.

[@Twisted4k]

That 9mm out of that snub is one of the best performing rounds I've seen for civilian defense, period.

[@PassivePortfolios]

The 357 revolver has the advantage of being able to fire 38 Special, which seals the deal for me.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

And 38 Long Colt. And 38 Short Colt. If you wish.

[@PassivePortfolios]

@@exothermal.sprocket Yes, but I have not seen those for sale anywhere except custom ammo makers, and they cost more.

[@brianmoore1164]

Love the HST, and it is always a top choice. In 357, I have a slight preference for Barnes, but that has more to do with how my guns shoot them.

[@RoadTraveler]

Agreed, love the HST in 9, but also currently prefer different loadings in 357.

[@chaosrex5702]

Time for that 9mm vs. 32 H&R vs. .327 FM video!

[@hillbillyscholar8126]

I think the results were good all around but I will still plant my banner in the .357 camp for reasons that will become evident with more of your tests. Thanks for sharing! 👑 .357 👑

[@Sirgromulus]

Another informative and entertaining video Sam! I am a big HST fan and that is my favorite SD load in 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. I do miss the average chronograph velocity and energy readings though.

[@GunSam]

You miss the average chronograph and velocity energy readings? I have no idea what you mean.

[@Sirgromulus]

@GunSam You used to show the average chrono velocities and calculated energy values after your chrono testing.

[@GunSam]

​@@SirgromulusUsed to? I don't know what that means. Your comment makes absolutely no sense.

[@GunSam]

@@Sirgromulus What are you talking about? I got a chronograph in 2018, I have shown velocity and energy averages from the beginning in every video, AS I DID IN THIS VIDEO. I don't know what you are talking about.

[@Michigan4Conservative]

3:26 Chrono read. And another one a few minutes later. 🤔

[@danoneill2846]

If you already own a 9mm , a revolver in 9mm could work well as a back up .

[@tedcollins4684]

Interesting test. My only complaint is I am wanting another revolver now. Thanks, stay safe! The 4/5 broken moon clips is a concern.

[@frankhinkle5772]

He makes a good argument for us buying guns. Are you about to buy a 10mm revolver, too?

[@tedcollins4684]

@@frankhinkle5772 can't afford 10mm, 9mm lcrx maybe still expensive

[@Gieszkanne]

Surprisingly good expension with the 9mm so far even from this short barrel. 38 special on the other hand often fail to expand from snubbies.

[@logangodofcandy]

It's the magic 1000fps, usually

[@bowtguy4929]

Good job Sam ! looking forward to more 10mm vs 357mag revolver comparison !

[@krashdude1]

Great testing the 9mm snubby...The 9mm plus p in 124 gr is getting 345 FP of energy. Your Taurus 38 snubbie in Plus p with 110 gr is getting 253 FP of energy. significant difference. Good to know.

[@357Addict]

Just can't go wrong with the HST. 124 +p is my load of choice.

[@Me2Lancer]

Thanks for sharing, Sam. I like your choice of 124 gr for defense ammo. It's a favorite of mine.

[@kennethferguson4283]

LOL The little 3.5 inch barrel Glock 33 in 357 Sig loaded with 125gr and 147gr rounds beats both of these with velocity, capacity and energy.

[@fatjeezussouthtexasoutdoor5244]

Just the video I needed in my life👍

[@DanTheWolfman]

HST's the best I've tested both of these in various Meat Targets! Anyone near E. TN go to the GOA GOALS show in Knoxville like SHOT I filmed some vids & shorts, say hello tomorrow afternoon if you recognize me. Met a bunch of the big youtubers tonight. I for one think Auto Cartridge Revolvers are awesome and love reviewing them w more coming.

[@ElainesDomain]

I'd have preferred an even grain match. 125gr .357 V 124gr 9mm. That aside the 9 did very well. I don't and won't have a 9mm revolver so this test was my interest in the .357 ammo. Thanks Mr. Sam.

[@GunSam]

That would have been great, except for the fact that the HST .357 Magnum comes in 154 gr, 154 gr and 154 gr.

[@ElainesDomain]

@@GunSam I didn't know that. Probably should have or at least taken the time to look. Thank you for responding to my post. Take care.

[@eduardorivera4100]

Messing with comments didn’t know you dropped a new video! Btw KZbin is supposed to notify me and didn’t those bastards

[@eduardorivera4100]

My notifications were on but had to reclick it to light up properly like it was somehow unclicked but not fully. Strange

[@tedcollins4684]

u toob is actively working against channels they don't like.

[@bobcatforever3485]

GS. Good and interesting video and nice shooting. Thanks for sharing and take care.

[@The_Hi_Life]

HSTs are the benchmark 👌always consistent and impressive

[@mikeburgan7675]

Nice video Sam

[@tnsteel]

Thank you. 9 mil looks excellent actually. Better then 38 +P IMO.

[@KD-lb9bg]

Very good video with excellent performances all the way around, thanks. That's quite concerning about all of the moon clips.

[@frankhinkle5772]

Thanks, that is very interesting. especially that you just got that 9mm Taurus revolver and have already broken four of the five included moon clips! Can you find aftermarket clips that are stronger? It is a nice gun, and a great testbed for your testing. It appears that it would make a good carry gun, except for the moon clip issue.

[@jasondyer110]

Just found your channel. I’m enjoying it. Some good information.

[@user-wo2iw3kt8o]

Gun Sam keep em comming. I love your videos. Pennsylvania buddy Jeff 😊

[@gB-xd5fk]

Great video thank you.

[@user-wo2iw3kt8o]

Gun Sam. I reloaded 3240 ammo for greatgrandpaps 1894 3240. Made in 1898. I'm using 175 grn hard cast gas checked . Using IMR 4227 at original black powder velocity. 1600 fps. The rifle is amazing accurate. 26" octagon barrel. I can keep all rounds on 4" sticky dot at 100 yards. I inherited this when I was 8 years old. . Im now 57. This winchesters going hunting this year in Pennsylvania. I'll let you know how it works. I got my buck tag a 3 doe tags. I'm going g to get more tags. My family lives on deer meat. 😊

[@danoneill2846]

They both look Good !

[@bw4593]

Really love my Taurus 605. I have a few carry guns, including a max 9, and Glock 42, G2C, but I always seem to reach for my 605 defender with a 3 inch barrel. Literally the perfect carry gun for me. I get the capacity is limited, but damn it I trust my wheel gun, and ai trust myself with it 😊. This video definitely making me think I want a 905 also!

[@Paladin1873]

As you've pointed out, the 9mm Para revolver has too many shortcomings to be very practical. Charter Arms almost got it right in 1989 when they introduced a revolver chambered for the short-lived 9mm Federal cartridge. Instead, few people saw any advantage to it over a good 38+P or light 357 load. Fast forward to today when the revolver and lever action rifle are enjoying some resurgence and it might be time to revisit the concept. However, I think the only way it can succeed is if the revolver chambered for it has a cylinder and frame that is shortened about .38" (how appropriate) to match the length of the Federal round. The selling point is that it is lighter and smaller than any 38 Special, yet more powerful.

[@duaneridings6591]

great video Sam

[@Pugh357]

Excellent video! I've always been a revolver guy, I recently got a couple plastic 9mm pistol. Definitely have to get a 9mm revolver. Also been thinking about sending one of my 357 magnum revolver cylinder to TK customs for the 9mm cylinder conversion. Seems like all federal hst ammo is really good. I wish they made a 125 grain 357 magnum.

[@lens7859]

Great test ! You are right, need to be able to control it. Each of those rounds will have a layer attached to it.

[@lanedexter6303]

Great test, Sam. That HST is good stuff. I see this auto pistol cartridges in revolvers thing as mostly for revolver backups to auto pistols. I’ve given serious thought to a Charter .45 ACP as backup to my 1911, but my wife has lured me to the dark side, the convenience of Airweight J-frames in Mika pocket holsters.🙄

[@tomcarr4630]

Love the snub tests! I use the Gold Dot 135 grain short barrel 357. Unfortunately I can’t practice with it much, as it is extremely difficult to find.

[@nathanbryant9658]

I appreciate these videos

[@brockhowell2296]

I'm a .357 fanboy and while I love snubbies, shooting .357 w/average sized hands can be uncomfortable. I personally carry the Remington HTP 110 grain, but that's mostly because I bought a few boxes of them. I think those 100 grain Cor-bons seem to be even more ideal from a snubby. It seems that 9mm through a revolver is more trouble than its worth, especially when you can get something like a Shield or Ruger ec9s, which are both really small, but w/o having to deal moon clips. I'd much rather carry something like Underwood in 38+p over 9mm if we're talking snub nose revolvers.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Excellent comparison and very interesting and good results. Thank you.

[@mikewalters5653]

Federal must add a touch of magic to each HST projectile…’cause they have such awesome performance in gel! I wonder if they are on a level above all other projectiles when it comes to performance on the “street”?

[@logangodofcandy]

Gel performance doesn't show how a body reacts. It only shows how the bullet penetrates and expands. You only need about 4" to fully penetrate internal organs. 9mm, even today, performs very poorly. It either doesn't expand and pokes a long tiny hole, or it does expense and doesn't penetrate

[@SurlyFuriousOne]

Something worth noting is that the 357 ammo used was really not very hot. Nothing at all wrong with that, just wanted to note that you have the option to get much more potent ammunition, such as buffalo bore, that would significantly improve the ballistic testing. This is in comparison to the 9mm +P utilized that is really at the upper end of what a 9mm can do from a 2” barrel. Now whether one would want to carry such rounds outside of bear country is a different matter. But the point should still be noted that hot 9mm is no comparison to hot 357.

[@GunSam]

This ammo from a 4" barrel is 154 gr @ 1,291 FPS on average, 570 ft lbs energy. That is actually just a tad hotter than the industry standard .357 Magnum. I have fired Buffalo Bore and done tests with them, in OTHER videos. I don't compare Buffalo Bore to Federal usually, if you want to see Buffalo Bore ammo, go to the videos listed as Buffalo Bore.

[@OceanKing6725]

HSTs doing HST things.

[@jackbauer9077]

Great review, love the HST 357 mag. Not my favorite from a snub but okay from Ruger sp101, sucks out of light weight S&w 340. love the HST from Ruger Blackhawk, S&w model 640, S&w model 13 3” for light weight 357’s I prefer buffalo bore Barnes 125gr low recoil, expand great in my tests

[@Fudmottin]

Both of those loads are quite good. I think with the 357 I would still save it for my 66 (3" Combat Magnum). I don't think I would like the recoil in my M&P340. I'm pretty sure the 66 is also heavier than the Taurus 605. Although powerful 357 loads can make me bleed from that thing if I shoot a whole bunch of them. As far as followup speed goes, I honestly don't know how important it is in real life. Shooting fast certainly looks cool. But if you are defending against multiple attackers, you might want to spread the damage, depending on the situation. You might be re aiming anyway. I don't know how many people talk about that. Great video!

[@logangodofcandy]

Nobody likes any recoil from a 340

[@Fudmottin]

@@logangodofcandy It has made me bleed. No fun at all. But it carries so easily. And the truth is, it is meant to be carried a lot and shot a little. S&W might get a winner on their hands if they do a 327 Federal Magnum version. So far the best 32s they've had were H&R Mag. Although that should also work in a pinch.

[@barrydraper]

I had to change the grips on my 605 snubby (.357) to the Hogue grips, because it wasn't fun to shoot with the 357 loads. It might be interesting to compare these same 9mm HSTs against the 38 Special +P HST, all from your 605. I would guess the 9mm might edge out the 38s.

[@GunSam]

The .38 Special+P HST has been discontinued for a number of years.

[@thomastune776]

Great comparison/demo my friend 👍

[@silenceismycanvas]

highly recommend a labradar or garmin. I have labradar and love it. Heard lots of good things about garmin too. It's very small.... Good video.

[@GunSam]

I like what I have, it's cheap, and works. I often shoot like maybe 200 rounds through it without issues, then I film something, get like 2 misreads, then "what you need to do is spend hundreds of dollars, because I know better than you". All I hear

[@jmichaelcarbonniere9549]

Good test, Sam! On the face of it, it would seem the .357 is the winner, barely, especially in regard to penetration. While I'm not a big 9mm fan I'll agree that the 9mm is the clear choice for SD just due to the excessive recoil and muzzle blast from the .357. I think even for bear defense, since the 9mm is so much easier to shoot. Unless you're facing a grizz sow with cubs, in which case I'd want a 12 gage shotgun with slugs! Or maybe something even bigger! I certainly wouldn't want to be armed with any kind of snub nose revolver. The 9mm reliability is a real issue. I would think that more practice with the detail parts would help but only if you don't have anything else to do! I've never owned a revolver that used the moon clips although I've considered it. Now I'm thinking I might have dodged a bullet! As others have mentioned, I think the .357 HST might be even better as a 125 gr load. Penetration would very likely be less, although how much would be something that would require testing. As much as I like penetration, fully expanded is important as well. Cheers, jc

[@logangodofcandy]

For most people, any recoil is excessive and hard to deal with. 357 is mostly for strong men

[@michaelellenberger986]

TK customs makes excellent moon clips

[@CyborgZeta]

Might have to invest in some moon clips from TK Custom for the 905.

[@MrTacklebury]

Have you measured your rifling for the land-to-land? I'm wondering if Taurus to keep costs down uses a barrel designed for .38 special and since 9mm is .355-.356 versus the .357-.358 for the .357 magnum. That might mean that the 9mm doesn't get as good of a bite on the rifling and that could cause the accuracy issues. I only use 9mm for plinking personally on my 692, but carry .357. I'm not recoil sensitive though.

[@user-xd8ng9fc2m]

The cylinders on the 905 n 605 look the same length, And was just wondering why when the 9mm is half inch shorter about??? What’s ur thoughts on it and I’m I wrong on what it looks like on camera?!? Gr8 video again n TY!!!

[@xkben90]

Thanks for the test! Hey Sam, I know this isn’t related to the video, but I thought I’d take my shot at asking anyways since you are very familiar with revolvers. I recently got a Kimber K6S 3” DAO as my EDC, and it came with the walnut grips (smooth, no extra texture). Would something like a G10 grip be an upgrade, or is it very similar to the wood grips? Many seem to say to go for the Hogue rubber grips, but I also heard that the rubber material tends to “catch” at times when carrying IWB. Thoughts?

[@GunSam]

i'm probably not the person to ask. I never used G10 and I don't use wood. I have always used rubber grips. I don't IWB.

[@carloparisi9945]

Hi Sam, the moon clips problem is something to consider here. I understand that reloading speed is paramount for those who never take a shot without a beep and a timer, I understand that, because their score is time-based. The rest of us may select a revolver not to depend on parts that get damaged or lost like mags, and the moon clips negate this revolver's advantage of just needing rounds. For the woods or the range, I'd not want that complication, also, when the model of the gun becomes old you may struggle to find the clips, like we struggle to find mags for older pistols.

[@jamespugh]

Both will do the job . All comes down to what you need . 9mm might ok if live in the city but 357mag might be better if ur adventure into wild to hunt or fish or camp . My dad love hos 357mag . Use load cheap soft point ammo. Know carry a cheap 9mm auto.

[@jimsanders4412]

My EDC G3C is loaded with Federal HST, 124 grain +Ps.

[@atoadigi]

Sam, What would you say is the least recoiling 357 mag ammo that you have fired through the Taurus 605?

[@Someguy0525]

For me personally hornady critical defense is pretty good

[@atoadigi]

@@Someguy0525 Thank you!

[@GunSam]

It's hard to say really. To me, lighter bullets tend to recoil less, so from memory a lot of the 110 gr stuff seems to recoil less. One workaround that seems to work often, is just to use a really poor brand of .357 Mag. Like a 125 gr PMC or Fiocchi or something of that quality, tends to be underloaded so it equals out to about the energy of a 9mm+P, and a bit less recoil than typical .357 Magnum from a snub.

[@atoadigi]

@@GunSam Thank you!

[@AMT4245]

Whether its a 9mm JHP, a 357 JHP, a 40 JHP, hell even a 38 wad cutter we find time and time again that the only important factor in handgun ballistics is if the bullet remained intact, kept a relatively linear trajectory, and penetrated adequately. For this reason I use a 9mm Glock 19 with 124 +P HST for home defense and a Model 36 with Flat Nose FMJ for pocket carry. I have spent year upon years researching handgun ballistics thanks to guys like you Sam. At this point, if I wanted my target to knock down I'd use a 12GA slug.

[@logangodofcandy]

Except that police show those 9mm require many shots to stop anyone

[@andystampfli9127]

I've got speer gold dot 115 gr for both of them. That would have been a real head to head but I don't know how old the 357 is I think I got it when I got the gun about 20 years ago. I didn't like that rounds accuracy. The 158gr jacketed flat point is a Lazer compared to the 115gr or 125gr in my 357

[@logangodofcandy]

Can you test Barnes copper? I run 140gr vor-tx in all my revolvers. They are dang good, even from a snubby. Don't know if the 9mm had the velocity to make proper use, though

[@kc0lif]

good test.

[@bjdog42]

You keep making cases for leaving revolver ammo in revolvers & auto ammo in autos. I have a Redhawk that fires 45colt & 45acp & I've only fired 1 cylinder of 45acp in it in the 4-5 years I've owned it just to see how it did with it. Ruger's moon clips bend just as easy as Taurus' clips so they live in the box the gun came in.

[@TeddyBear-lb9ho]

Thanks for the video 👍👍👍

[@rangetime6779]

HST's really performed well. Snubby 357 has so must muzzle blast, noise and recoil. I'd give the win to the 9mm.

[@ratagris21]

Nice test results Sam! Effective rounds, but would not like to be on the receiver of these performance stopper. 🎩♠️🎯🎱🇺🇸🏁🇺🇦🔱🌻🌸💮🏵️🏴‍☠️🏹

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Charter Arms Pit Bull 9mm? No clipazines required?

[@CTCAC2000]

But what if the 400 lb black bear is also a gang banger?

[@GunSam]

.357 Mag in a larger frame

[@14goldmedals]

And the bear is jacked-up on cocaine? But that could never happen…

[@logangodofcandy]

A black bear? According to President biden, white bears are the ones committing all the crime

[@aarongreenfield9038]

38 super vs 9mm or 357?

[@zonezombie]

The sealant is around the primer, not the bullet.

[@GunSam]

There is a sealant around the primer AND bullet. I don't know what possesses a person to dismiss one fact, because another similar one exists.

[@charlesphillips5906]

Short barrels ❤️

[@sinisterthoughts2896]

I wonder if your 9mm has the same bore as your 357, for cheaper manufacturing. since 9mm is usually .355 vs 357 so it might not give as much rifling engagement. just a thought.

[@logangodofcandy]

I have a Taurus 692. It has 357 and 9mm cylinders. They both shoot well for me. If anything, tool wear could make a less well machined barrel

[@GunSam]

Taurus lists different rifling spin rates. They are internally sleeved type barrels, wouldn't be that difficult to have the correct bore diameter. Yes, I would say the external 'barrel' is the same, but the internal sleeve with the bore diameter and rifling is different between the two.

[@pecosjane]

You have said that the "sweet spot" for a one shot stop in the real world seems to be right at 400 ft lbs, regardless of caliber or bullet weight. That Federal HST in the .357 mag hits right there at 407. Have you identified the 'perfect' cartridge for a snub nose self-defense gun?

[@GunSam]

I mean, I do carry a .327 Federal. One thing I like about my .327 Federal is that if I want to, I can carry the Hydrashok 85 gr .327 Federal. While it's only like 250 ft lbs, because it's still moving really fast it tends to penetrate and expand quite well, all with very little recoil. But that's pocket carry where you got to compromise.

[@lens7859]

Lawyer, auto correct

[@chrisgabbert658]

👍😊🎯

[@DinoNucci]

RoaR

[@waltergreene9053]

Now compare the 905+ P with the 856+P

[@garyK.45ACP]

New Title: "What is the best defense cartridge? And why it is the .357 Magnum"

[@davelively7423]

You shouldn't worry so much about what people consider fair. Including the rest of this comment. There seems to be a lot of disagreement about what is fair. What I consider fair is using the best possible round for a given purpose when comparing calibers. In the case of 9mm +P vs. .357 that could very well be a 124 grain 9mm +P vs. a 125 grain 357 even though many prefer heavier 357 ammo like the 154 grain load you tested. But I cringe when I see people testing a 357 vs a 44 magnum for bear defense and use a very heavy for caliber 180 grain 357 to a very light for caliber 180 grain 44 Magnum in an attempt to be fair. Comparing hardcast SWC 158 and 300 grain ammo in both calibers would be much more useful and fair. Who buys a 44 because they are worried about getting attacked by a wild animal and loads it with 180 grain ammo? Equal bullet weight does not always make for a fair test. In this test the 124 grain ammo was more fair than using 147. 147 is too heavy for 9mm, bullets in that weight all too often don't expand well if at all.

[@RoadTraveler]

Bump

[@rickwalicki7057]

Good vid. Can you explain why there is bullet creep on the 9 but not the 357? Wouldn’t there be creep in a mag? Thx

[@RoadTraveler]

Algorithm

[@ekklesialifeapplicationbib7352]

Make mine magnum!

[@ricksworlddereaux2397]

Most penetration you will get wit a FN 57..its made for the Nato Military..😂😂i consider it the best handgun Ammo...

[@BrokenBarBox]

Garandthumb did some tests with the 5.7 round. You might want to check it out