A-36 Mustang (Apache). The P-51’s Groundpounding Sister!

[@garywebb7481]

As a 25+ year volunteer at the National museum of the U.S. Air Force, I’ve had the privilege of seeing this bird thousands of times. Thanks for the history lesson. If you need any other photos let me know. Being at the museum has allowed me the great privilege to have met and talk to many of our veterans and they always amaze me.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for reaching out! I hope I got everything (mostly) right! If you wouldn't mind sending me a quick email to establish a link, I think you could be an excellent resource that I proimised to not overuse! [e-mail]

[@Fetherko]

In Dayton, Ohio?

[@mustangtmg]

Umm. Have you looked at the signage of the A-36A at the Museum??? It very clearly says “A-36A Mustang,” and to keep some people from blowing a gasket, it mentions the popular nickname from the 12th AF, “Invader.” It also mentions “Apache,” a nickname from about 1970 (not a typo: 1970!!!)!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@mustangtmg The Apache label was a marketing effort by NAA during the war, not 1970. It wasn't accepted and the Mustang name was retained half way through the A-36 production run.

[@iskandartaib]

This is the first "Mustang" I ever saw in the flesh. 😁 Didn't realize it wasn't a P-51 until I read the placard.

[@kellywright540]

Thanks! My junior high school teacher wrote on my class picture, "To the kid who knows all about airplanes, have a great summer and good luck in high school!" Well, that was back in 1977 and I am still learning stuff about airplanes as I did with this video! Oh, and my interest in WWII airplanes and aircraft in general came from my Dad who talked about how the American aircraft shot up trucks, tanks and anything else the Germans had on the roads and the Germans referring to them as Jabos. He fought in Patton's Third Army and saw plenty of things and places destroyed by both sides...

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for sharing!

[@ivanhicks887]

Kelly - A Wonderful Past and A Wonderful Future Ahead - Planes Are Magic - Thankyou

[@BikingVikingHH]

Your dad was right, the allies committed atrocious war crimes, gunning down civilians with planes like the A36… like Patton said, we fought the wrong side

[@ivanhicks887]

@@BikingVikingHH God Bless America

[@BikingVikingHH]

@@ivanhicks887 lol god has nothing to do with the US, it’s just the muscle for the synagogue of Satan… boomers🙄 😆

[@scottpayton1352]

I first learned of the A-36 when my Grandfather told me of his experience as an infantryman in WW2. He and his men were mistakenly strafed by one. He said he was pissed, but he sure loved the power of the plane! Very cool video. I am fortunate enough to have friends that own P-51D's and have flown in a couple. Amazing! I was born 40 years late!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Wow that is amazing! My long-term plans for this channel are eventually to visit locations and go flying in warbirds and share with folks. This summer at least I flew to a location and crawled through a B-17 and B-25, but I've got to get UP in one at some point!

[@yeildo1492]

I have never heard of the Apache and I watch a lot of this stuff. Thank you for the video!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@CharlesKrum-wb7ev]

In '93, I was fortunate to visit Doug Champlins collection in Mesa Az. For some reason, that day noone was there and I received a once in a lifetime tour of the most fantastic fighter collection ever. The A36 there was on display. All of the a/c were flightworthy and were flown regularly. I never stopped drooling throughout the afternoon and was allowed to sit in the cockpit of many of the displayed a/c. The collection was sold off shortly thereafter and I actually cried when I heard, but for 1 day, I was in aviation heaven. Thank you Doug.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thank you for sharing!

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

charles krum I too stumbled on his museum in mesa just before it was sold and moved to the Museum of Flight in Seattle. They had a couple of planes there on loan Champlin did not own, but when I was there no A36, I did go see what was the collection in Seattle, a beautiful museum, have been there several times !!!

[@mustangtmg]

@@wilburfinnigan2142 WHAT 'moved to the Museum of Flight in Seattle"?

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@mustangtmg The Doug Chaplin collection that he owned !!!

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@mustangtmg The Collection that Doug Chaplin owned, fighters !!! Its in Seattle and has been for years !!!

[@hanovergreen4091]

Outstanding!!! Just popped up in my feed today. Loved your delivery and presentation. Subscribed. Best Regards and Best Wishes!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you enjoyed it! Welcome aboard!

[@stephenwetmore3747]

As a long time fan of wwII fighter planes, especially the P 51, I did not know this. Very well done. Thank you!

[@thomasr.bartonjd7815]

Your opening is the most-Clever and the Bestest opening ever for an aviation or Fighter plane KZbin Event! --it was funny and i shed a tear or two..

[@edwardpate6128]

I've always loved the Allison powered variants of the P-51, the A model and the A-36. At 15K and below they were exceptional performers and the equal to the Merlin models. It was at high altitudes that the single stage/single speed supercharging let them down. Later a lot of the A models were used pretty extensively all the way until the end of the war in the CBI theater to gradually replace the P-40.

[@paulwoodman5131]

The F model for foto. I've got that one in my model stack.😊.

[@Cuccos19]

P-40 was never actually replace by anything else at CBI. They did very well. Better than the Allison Mustang, which was faster, but nothing else.

[@wbertie2604]

At 10,000 ft and below, on introduction it was at least as if not faster than the 190 and Typhoon (there are a variety of possible levels of manifold pressures allowed during the period and other changes so it's hard to be specific without model numbers and dates). The nearest Spitfire was the uncommon Mk. XII.

[@wbertie2604]

​@@Cuccos19It was more expedient to keep making P-40s at the factories already making them than and deploying them where they were effective than trying to swap production. North American was a new entrant so had thr luxury of starting with a clean slate, although many suspect that it already had the P-51 outlined before the UK requested it.

[@skipperclinton1087]

​@Cuccos19: I saw a P-51 at the Reno air races back in '81 flying against among others an F4U Corsair. When they reached the pylons and had to make the turns the F4 just rolled over on a wingtip at about a 90 degree angle and make a tight turn. The Mustang on thr other hand had to swoop outside and feather the wings in order to head back the other way. In the straightaway it would catch up and pass the Corsair but the Corsair would out turn them every time. P-51s didn't fare too well on B-29 escort missions over Japan either against Japanese fighters.

[@Grams79]

I'm a long long time WWII air combat fan with great knowledge and some experience. Your channel is great and it will help teach the new generation our history. Thank you mate. S~

[@worldofwarbirds]

Hello! Thanks for the compliment! Especially with having made some inroads with the Warthunder crowd, I hope so!

[@mustangtmg]

The use of the "Apache" name will do NO-one any favors. It's a MUSTANG...PERIOD! Cheers!

[@FitzArias]

I just had my lesson of the day. Had no idea about this plane, ever. A-36.

[@basilreid257]

Good to see this even for aviation enthusiasts!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@greggpennington966]

Once again, it's amazing to me that I had never heard about this WW2 period aircraft !

[@anim8torfiddler871]

Thank you for sharing the development and operational history of the Apache.Absolutely the first acknowledgment of the type I've come across. So many times I've been reminded my ignorance Far Exceeds what I THINK I know!

[@worldofwarbirds]

My pleasure! Glad you liked it.

[@skyboom1961]

Great video, I have a few models of the the ground ponder P-51, but I read somewhere that the dive breaks were quite often wired closed as they would pop open for no reason while flying.

[@rainerottinger9374]

Danke!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Bitte!

[@tootired76]

Finally a video of the A 36 Apache! The US Army has a long tradition of naming it's aircraft after indigenous American tribes.

[@DavidOfWhitehills]

Well that's just cultural misappropriation. The tribes should Sioux.

[@DogVonDobie]

@@DavidOfWhitehills Well played.

[@PauloPereira-jj4jv]

There was never an A-36 Apache. The name is MUSTANG.

[@lucasmccatt1949]

I'm from the Slapaho tribe

[@cameronkedas3375]

@PauloPereira-jj4jv You’re an idiot

[@ROCKGUITARIST62]

I liked your video very much. Thank you.. Good job!!!

[@worldofwarbirds]

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@littlefluffybushbaby7256]

On the coat-tails of my previous comment, and while I'm still in rant mode, thank you for not peppering your video with end-to-end stock Stuka noises, which would be a temptation most youtubers would not be able to resist. It boils my blood as much as the BS nick names. I haven't yet heard it on videos about submarines, but that day will come. P.S. it was a thing, but if it was loud enough to terrify those being bombed imagine how loud it was for the crew. I have a book called "Stuka Squadron" about "Stukagruppe 77 - the Luftwaffe's Fire Brigade". In there it said German crews christened the siren "The Trombones Of Jerico" (not Jerico Trumpets, the difference may be translation). As good as the book is, it has no source for this. So quite possibly BS. Of the photographs in the book it appears they were a thing in 1940, were being removed by 1941-42, but some still had them in 1943. There were many variants of the Ju-87 and some would also have been modified in the field. One of the photos shows the fairing for the siren propellor but the propellor itself has (probably) been tossed in the bin. I'm not sure if it was in a video interview with a Stuka pilot, but I thought one said they removed them because they were bloody annoying, added drag, and also were like painting a target on the plane for ground fire. Having gradually dumped the siren they put whistles on the bombs. I guess keeping the terrifying effect for the recipient without the crew having to hear it. He also said it wasn't the siren that was called the 'Trumpet Of Jerico' but the bomb whistle. Again, I've absolutely no source for any of this. So I'd take it with a bucket of salt. And... one more thousand more internet points for Stuka shushing. 😁

[@worldofwarbirds]

I have heard the same about the bomb whistles, although I understand that just normal bombs could whistle too.

[@Zajuts149]

This was really good. Not many mention the 311th Fighter-Bomber Group in the CBI. IIRC, only 2 of the Group's 3 squadrons operated the A-36, whilst the 3rd used P-51As. The 1st Air Commando Group also operated a squadron of P-51As. In the summer of 1944, the old Allison-engined Apaches/Mustangs were being replaced by Merlin-powered P-51Cs. Also very interesting about the British use of the A-36. I had only heard about the single example they acquired for testing, dubbed Mustang Mk I(DB). I would love to hear about the use of the cannon-armed P-51/Mustang Mk Ia, too.

[@DogVonDobie]

They borrowed six from the US in the MTO for reconnaissance work.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@DogVonDobie TRUE !!!! As the Mustang had much more range and speed that the $hitfire MkV !!!!!

[@djcjr1x1]

I've known of this planes existence but this is the most in depth info on it I've found, thanks!👍

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad it was informative! I was SO surprised when I heard about it!

[@215618680]

Very entertaining episode! (Great tongue in cheek humor too.) 😂

[@worldofwarbirds]

I'm glad you appreciated it. Not everyone does!

[@juanperez2164]

I’m a simple man I find warbird content I subscribe

[@TonyChristy-dy7qv]

Thanks to War Thunder I actually do know what the A-36 Apache is and I love that plane! Thank you for another awesome video.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for dropping the comment!

[@vinmar4551]

Very nice historical. Many thanks for keeping our honorable U.S. history alive.

[@worldofwarbirds]

This channel aims to keep all nations' avaition history alive! Thanks for the comment.

[@iskandartaib]

Very nice. Lots of photos of the A-36 I haven't seen yet, and lots of operational details which I've never come across before.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Bikedueder]

I LOVED this fuselage style!! Better than the bubble top. Of course I was a fan of the P-40 as well. The P-47 was definitely a workhorse and a beast, but it always looked kind of tubby to me. The P-39 was just odd.

[@littlefluffybushbaby7256]

I love the P-40 too. It's the "Hurricane to the Spitfire", "P-40 to P-38/47/51". The P-39 and it's variants, was odd, and that's a thing in itself. It went down well with the Soviets apparently.

[@miguellott9038]

​@littlefluffybushbaby7256what's funny is the p-38 to me always looked like two p-40s put together

[@PawneeStormChaser]

I’ve been an aviation nerd since I was 12. I’ve seen just about every war bird fly, to include “Fifi”, the b-29, and somehow I had never heard of this plane until I played WarThunder.

[@WilliamWallace-l2b]

No slack in light attack!👍👍

[@johnmcguigan7218]

I first heard about this when reading Ernie Pyle's great book "Brave Men," where Pyle describes its use in the Italian campaign.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I have "Brave Men" up next on my reading list

[@hctim96]

Tnx for the history lesson. Never heard of the A-36 or whence it came...cheers!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Many folks have said as such and I'm glad to help spread the knowledge.

[@tomperone9338]

I just saw an A-36 at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force last weekend. Beautiful bird!

[@worldofwarbirds]

I think that's the only one around!

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@worldofwarbirds Wrong again there is one flying making the air show rounds, seen the video on You Tube

[@mustangtmg]

@@wilburfinnigan2142 - there are two airworthy ones - neither flies much though: the Collings Foundation has one ("Baby Carmen") and the Friedkin family's other airworthy one, which is wonderfully and ACCURATELY restored, but it has no name.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@mustangtmg BUT they are both airworthy !!!!

[@terenceblakely4328]

Allison engines are often maligned for not having dual stage superchargers and thus poor high altitude performance but that was due to government mandate. Allison was told that GE was to supply turbo charges for high altitude performance and so they built their engines with single stage superchargers. Only two problems. One, GE ran late and two, those superchargers were ginormous. The bulky fuselage of the P-47s were due to using those turbochargers. On the plus side they were very effective.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Also it is NOT understood that the Marlin of the same time frame the 20 series were also a SINGLE STAGE supercharged engine which added a second SPEED to turn the compressor wheel faster to pump a little more air. the Merlin got the 2 STAGE supercharger in late 1942!!! The first plane to fly with a 2 STAGE supercharger was the Navy F4F-3 which used the PW R1830, PWv also had a 2 StAGE supercharger on the R2800 in the F4U Corsair and the F6F Hellcat, the P47 used a TURBOcharger feeding a mechanical supercharger in the P47, RR was late to the party with the 2 stage in late 1942...... time line guys

[@bobsakamanos4469]

​@@wilburfinnigan2142Allison never made it to the party at all. Epic fail.

[@mustangtmg]

While the GE Type-B Turbosuperchargers on P-38s (same ones on B-17s and B-24s) were NOT "lightweights" --- they were a LOT smaller and a LOT lighter than the GE Type-C Turbosupercharger on the P-47. The intercoolers were also more massive on P-47s that the combined weight of the two on the P-38s.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@mustangtmg The P47's R2800 was almost twice the size of a P38 engine.....

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@bobsakamanos4469 NO the V1710 was dsigned and built BEFORE the RR Merlin and out produced it in HP until 1943 when the 60 series Merlin got the 2 stage supercharger, also the Allison made more HP, was 300# lighter, and was a better designed engine with a roller rocker arms the Merlin never had or never got

[@toastyroastyman8911]

the a36 was a pretty good plane in itself

[@R760-E2]

I had a bunch of D-model time before I flew the A-36, I didn't look down on it at all. I like the Allison.

[@VidarLund-k5q]

Well suited for low level work with that Allison.

[@inkycat7167]

Holy shit finally a video that actually talks about the A-36 Apache Mustang

[@worldofwarbirds]

Yeah I thought it was a pretty cool story!

[@PauloPereira-jj4jv]

There's no "Apache". It's Mustang, officially. Always was.

[@inkycat7167]

@@PauloPereira-jj4jv It was supposed to be called Apache but everyone just called it mustang anyways so you’re not completely wrong

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@PauloPereira-jj4jv the AAF did advertise the original "P-51" (Mustang Mk.Ia) as the Apache for a while in the US.

[@DonFatherTrump]

"P-40s? Nahhh give us a 100 days. We gotch you!" What a bunch of studs.

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Except that NAA had been working on the fighter concept since 1939 with the Brits BPC. They sneaked their Op Requirement to NAA in Jan 1939 & collaborated that summer. The P-509 design was on the books in 1939 and was initially used to sell the Brits the idea for a fighter in Feb 1940. The BPC folks provided feedback on their needs and some technical info before the deal was struck in March. The biggest delay was waiting for Allison to produce a reliable engine, or any engine at all initially. Collaboration continued through 1941 with NAA asking for help on the Meredith scheme rad scoop (Feb 1941). The first Mustang 1's were delived to the RAF Sqns in Feb 1942 with many changes since that prototype.

[@jackcooper4936]

Ground pounding sister is an … interesting title. Also one of my favorite planes. Great work.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I try not to be a Clickbaiter, but there is something to be said about having an edgy title…did I go too far?

[@jackcooper4936]

@@worldofwarbirds no I don’t think so, it gave me a good LOL.

[@GrizzAxxemann]

@@worldofwarbirds not far enough. 😉

[@wbertie2604]

It's a little bit of a misnomer as a lot of the A-36s actually got used as straight fighter aircraft and had a good tally of air to air kills.

[@TheMlgFox]

I really enjoyed your take on this plane, looking forward to more obscure planes in the future. Subscribed!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Welcome aboard!

[@jalopywrench]

Very good. I just found your channel and I'm glad I did. It's now on my list.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Welcome aboard!

[@jalopywrench]

@@worldofwarbirds thank you

[@littlefluffybushbaby7256]

Appreciate you covered one of the lesser know planes. Looks like many had never heard of it. My take is, there are twelve million videos about the P-51, P-47, P-38, and Spitfire, yet there are many other planes either uncovered, or less covered. Why compete with those going for the low-hanging fruit? 😃

[@worldofwarbirds]

My thoughts too. Although I eventually get around to the “popular” ones, I have far more fun with the oddballs!

[@Davie-jx4rh]

I love hearing about the mustang’s development, it’s part of what makes it interesting for me One of the most odd parts is the D variant (the most iconic and produced version with its 6 m2s and bubble canopy) wasn’t brought into service until 1944, within the latter 3rd of the war

[@thelandofnod123]

@@Davie-jx4rh It is sometimes difficult to comprehend how quickly some of these developments were. When you look at how different the Mustang I to A-36 to P-51A then to B/C then D/K were, it’s phenomenal that it all took place in, what, 4 years?

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Read the book "P-51B Mustang, by Ford & Marshal, 2020. Best and most accurate history of the Mustang development and collaboration with the Brits.

[@Davie-jx4rh]

@@bobsakamanos4469 interesting

[@randalc6118]

Greetings from Drayton Valley Alberta Canada. Thanks for doing this aircraft. Please keep up the good work, Love your content

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for watching! There’s more to come!

[@tomtruesdale6901]

Great history lesson. Thank you for sharing.

[@gowensbach2998]

Very much enjoyed this video. Thank you sir, Well done!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you liked it.

[@klassyedward9718]

Wow, our early aviator's had so much fun when the aircraft were still in their early development!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Combat is not fun. Addictive maybe.

[@georgemallory797]

I learned something new. I'm amazed and delighted. Great video.

[@chpet1655]

A Cake reference is always welcome in a WWII aircraft video

[@worldofwarbirds]

Yes! I'm loving the commenters who picked it up!

[@steveperry1344]

i've never heard of this one, very sleek looking.

[@rogerhuner6566]

Excellent presentation

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you liked it!

[@drgondog]

The A-36 was a Mustang, officially, as assigned by North American and USAAF Public Relations, July 1942. Ben Kelsey was in England in January 1942 with 8th AF as a liason - when the Materiel Command led by Echols tried to kill the A-36. He had Nothing to do with A-36. He (Echols) was content to let the Mustang line die. Major General Muir Fairchild AC/AS Planning, Operational Requirements aligned with Director of Close Air Support to ram the A-36 down Echols' throat. The design of the A-36 began in November 1941 with an eye toward the dive bomber funds remaining for FY 41. Echols tried, then, to kill the Mustang after the A-36 contract completed at 500, and once again tried to kill the Mustang in favor of converting capacity to B-25 - and once again Fairchild steam rolled him and approved P-51A as a follow up to be converted (production run) to P-51B-5 when Merlin conversion of P-51-NA airframe was complete. The A-36 was accurate because the dive brakes, deployed BEFORE dive, enabled airspeed in 350_mph range. What IS true, is that AAF named the P-51-NA/Mustang MkIA "Apache" until Kindelberger letter of July 13, 1942. By the time the P-51-NA was in mid production, the name reverted to Mustang also.

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Bill, your book is the best tech/political fighter design book I've ever read. !

[@drgondog]

@@bobsakamanos4469 thank you!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

​@@drgondogNP, it's also refreshing that you shed well researched light on social media to reveal the truths of the complex relationships between NAA, the USAAC/USAAF departments and the Brit organizations/RAF/RR etc. Facts people will never see elsewhere. Ford & Marshall, "P-51B Mustang..." excellent book.

[@drgondog]

@@bobsakamanos4469 my co-author Lowell Ford and the XP-51G savior John Morgan passed last Friday

[@infame27]

dont do the p51. Focus on episodes of more unknown aircraft, everyone already knows a lot about the popular planes like the p51 and I would love to learn more about the lesser known aircaft like your series on the German Amerikabomber project

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks! I love looking at the oddballs and sharing them with you.

[@tireballastserviceofflorid7771]

Or maybe do an episode on all of them.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@tireballastserviceofflorid7771You should definitely do that

[@tireballastserviceofflorid7771]

@@guaporeturns9472 No, you should.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@tireballastserviceofflorid7771 Already have Educate yourself

[@youdontneedtoknow6621]

Hey man, I would really like it if you did a video on the British observatory aircraft Auster 4. I have a bit of history with this one myself. My mums partner bought one back in 2019 when his love military equipment became its strongest. He kindly invited me to help him clean and taxi the only remaining one of its kind in the uk. And remains one of the best experiences of my life sitting in a real WW2 aircraft that saw service in D-day and was one of first British aircraft in Berlin. If you do get around to making a video on this marvellous aircraft and want more history on the the one I say I will be happy to send you any more history I can. All the best, apologies for the long winded comment. 😊

[@Croploss]

There was a locally owned (Hollister, CA?) A 36 in original condition that flew in for the Salinas airshows. It was airworthy and definitely an original A 36, not a converted P 51.

[@thomasmitchell7645]

I had my suspicions that this was the plane that you were going to talk about--the original Mustang. But it was very informative with all your stats on dive speeds.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Not the original Mustang that title goes to the Brits Mk I & MkIA !!!! The first production runs of 620 planes the 500 A36 Apache was the follow on model for the USAAC.....time line !!!

[@jhaedtler]

I saw an A-36 at Wright Patterson in 1988. Also My Dad flew P-39's and P-400's in the South Pacific.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for sharing! How did he feel about the much maligned P-39's and P-400's?

[@jhaedtler]

@@worldofwarbirds He said it saved his life 3 times. And nothing fell out of the sky faster than a 39! Not bad for a 21 year old kid!

[@klassyedward9718]

I had to stop a gentleman wearing a p-51 hat, he surprised and wowed me with some short stories as a fighter pilot in WWII.

[@dizdizzy8937]

Great show!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks!

[@MayheM_72]

As much as everyone loves the Mustang, my favorite WW2 fighter is the Corsair! An absolute BEAST in the Pacific!

[@worldofwarbirds]

And I swear I WILL do a full and complete episode (or maybe a series) based on the F4U! But as it is also one of my all-time faves, I'm saving it as a treat!

[@animalyze7120]

Ahh yes, I was always partial to the Hellcat but my absolute favorite was the P-38 and the later F-82 Twin Mustang, they were just so cool looking and were awesome in combat.

[@watchmanschannelofdespair]

Mine too, at least American, close 2nd is the P-38 Lightning followed by the largest WWII single engine fighter, AKA _"The Jug,"_ the P-47 Thunderbolt.

[@richardritter6025]

Really nice video… I did not know of this Apache! Thank you

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you liked it!

[@benbrassard4974]

I’d like to see your take on the P-47. I live near where they made a ton of them. The Thunder Jug was a hell of a war bird.

[@worldofwarbirds]

It's on the list! Make sure your're subscribed to not miss anything.

[@old_guard2431]

Well done. This version kind of makes sense if you are stuck with the Allison without a workable turbocharger. You aren’t going to get the performance at altitude, particularly important in Europe. A mediocre dive bomber with enhanced capability for self-defense seems to have a function, also. Well, then the Thunderbolt comes in. (Never mind, carry on.)

[@DogVonDobie]

It was an excellent dive-bomber. The supercharger of the Allison in the A-36 was optimized for low-altitude based on mission requirements. The Allison with just a single-speed single-stage wasn't a higher altitude engine anyway.

[@drgondog]

The V-1710-87 was a base engine (Just like P-38 base engine) - but delivered much more power than the -39. It was always designed for SL to approx 7000 feet operational envelope/

[@DogVonDobie]

@@drgondog All Allisons in all Mustangs had a supercharger, just like the P-38, just like the P-39. It was a single-stage, single speed supercharger. The Merlin 1650 engines installed in the P-51B, C, and D were mechanically driven two-stage, two-speed, superchargers allowing for more power at higher altitude. The Allison wasn't designed that way and to achieve the additional power required at high-altitude, an additional stage to be "plugged" in behind the engine. The Mustang didn't have the room for it. Turbo units install on production P-38's another story. Same with the P-39/P-63

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

old-guard Only the P38 and the P47 fighters used a TURBOcharger in wwII, B17 and B24 only Bombers !!!

[@old_guard2431]

@@wilburfinnigan2142 kind of my point: three were designed for turbochargers, including the P-39 : two got them, not including the P-39. An effective multi-stage, multi speed supercharger would have done, but the P-39 didn’t get that either.

[@philryan9609]

Excellent, have you done one on the P61Black Widow?

[@worldofwarbirds]

Yes, but audio version only. You can catch it on Spotify or all other podcast apps, or here:

[@worldofwarbirds]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3rOaKtvorOoqKc

[@chrismitchell446]

Great video! Earned a subscriber.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Welcome aboard!

[@michaelbray6010]

Nice content and nice pace of delivery. Btw, I always thought it was Gypsie Rose Lee who said "Always leave them wanting more". Or Mae West. But you were right. Not what I expected to learn from your video, but learning is learning.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I think I could do an episode on just that quote and who may or may not have said it!

[@michaelbray6010]

@@worldofwarbirds I was so sure that I almost 'corrected' you... luckily I checked Mr. Internet first, saving me from talking out of my butt. This has shaken my faith in burlesque mavens!

[@greggpennington966]

Im amazed ! Until today , i had never heard of the A36 Apache. Fighter ? Ground Attack ? Close Air Support ? What mission was it designed to carry out ? Fascinating !

[@worldofwarbirds]

All of the above!

[@littlefluffybushbaby7256]

A for attack. So, want something attacked? It's your man. 😄

[@bobsakamanos4469]

The P-51A (Mustang II) production line was producing fighters at the same time as the A-36.

[@alancranford3398]

There were reasons for the restrictive Army Regulations on pursuit aircraft starting with the Bomber Mafia using that deadly #2 pencil to regulate away any potential competition for air force funds. "The bomber will always get through" when Army Regulations prohibited supercharging pursuit aircraft engines, prohibited armaments heavy enough to take down a bomber, prohibited putting bombs on pursuit aircraft, prohibited drop tanks to extend pursuit aviation range... I claim that weapons procurement is 90% politics, 9% logistics and actual battlefield performance is only 1% of the influence. Navy funds developed the AN/M2 caliber .50 machine gun--the Army was satisfied with the .30 caliber. Your research on the Apache A-36 is informative and entertaining. Don't forget--Army aviation was traditionally named after Indian tribes. Yes, there were other naming conventions--traditions are more of a suggestion than a carved-in-stone law. Today's Army Apaches are the AH-64.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Yup. I did mention AH-64. Any idea when this tradition started?

[@drgondog]

@@worldofwarbirds Pre-Vietnam entry by US. IIRC the Bell model 204 Huey was the first - named Iroquois. That said the Bell 209 was always Cobra.

[@drgondog]

Hmm - partially correct and only for pre-December 7th. You may recall that the P-38 and XP-39 were both specified with 37mm cannon and turbo supercharged Allisons. The P-37, P-40 both had supercharged Allison V-1710 (single stage, single speed). The Army was dissatisfied w/30 caliber and split the production 50/50 with USN for the Hispano II licensed production. That said, USAAF repeatedly rejected 20mm for armament in most fighters save, P-38 and P-61 and P-400. In 1940 Arnold changed the priority for a 1500 mi escort fighter from 4 to 1 on Emmons Board recommendations. In February/March 1942 Arnold set high priority on Increase Range of Fighter, Attack and Light Bomber Range - The Fighter Aircraft Range Extension Program, (FAREP) led by MG Muir Fairchild drove both Combat drop tanks AND increased internal fuel. Materiel Command can be faulted for slow development of combat drop tanks - but directly responsible for the 85gal fuse tank on P-51B, 55gal LE tanks on P-38J and eventually on adding 65gal to main tank on P-47D-25 - due to Republic design issues that were partially solved much later by -25 then completely resolved with P-47N.

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@drgondog Ref the earlier stonewalling of NAA by Mat Command, it's almost like Echols was a puppet for GM.

[@drgondog]

@@bobsakamanos4469 GMC was responsible for shutting down installing Merlin in late 1941, but I believe that the failure by MC/Echols to buy Mustang was his rage at NAA for not agreeing to build P-40s for BPC. He was coerced by Plans and ultimately Arnold to order A-36, then P-51A. IMO Echols was removed from acquisition authority in late 1942. Development authority was ceded to Plans & Operational Requirements with interested 'guidance' from Arnold. Both the Mustang resistance and the failure to shut down the XP-75 when it was a clear failure, contributed to his career ending at Major General and subsequent departure from AAF just after end of WWII. .

[@ss442es]

The A-36 with the Rolls Royce Merlin was faster than the following bubble canopy D-Models I've been told. Had a friend who ferried one up from South America, a D-model that he had a photo of. There was talk around the airport where I learned to fly, the Redding California Municipal Airport about a P-51 D model that sat forlorn looking at a small airport in Northern California. I decided to fly around until I found it, and I did. The gear was covered in spider webs and wind blown litter. It was sad to see such a magnificent airplane just sitting out in the sun and weather. The story I heard is the airplane was inherited by the family of the deceased owner but they didn't have the funds to restore the airplane which of course could have cost tens of thousands of dollars. Thanks for the story.

[@DogVonDobie]

The A-36 mounted the Allison, not a RR Merlin.

[@andygray9285]

Nice job thanks.

[@worldofwarbirds]

You’re Welcome Andy! I always look for your comment!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

GM tried so very hard to prevent the development of early Mustangs, A-36s and P-51Bs via Ecols, GM's man in Material Command. Thank God that Arnold and others were on the ball to reign in Ecols.

[@bacarnal]

Great video!! Looks like this was the Army's equivalent of the F4-U Corsair.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Glad you liked it! It was a limited-run aircraft though and certainly didn't have the long service life of the F4U!

[@skipperclinton1087]

@bararnal: Not even close. You give the P-40 more credit than it deserves and not nearly enough to the F4U. Check out kill ratios between the two, especially when used by the Australians in the SWPA. P-40's to A6M zeros. Same deal when the AVG group used them against the Japanese. The tactics were, get above the Japanese, pouce as you go through a formation trading altitude for speed and use it to regain the altitude. Rinse and repeat!

[@DogVonDobie]

The Army equivalent of the F4U Corsair was more like the P-47.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@skipperclinton1087 P40 was around before the F4U Corsair, more produced and used all through to the end of the war !!! Nothing wrong with it if used properly !! !

[@jameycreel9330]

War is a racket

[@FeiHuWarhawk]

Need to do the P51A that the British loved.

[@SoloRenegade]

10:25 one hit to either of the two ventrally located oil cooler radiators on a p-47, and the engine was done within 5min. One hit to the P-47 rudder or elevator control cables, and it was done. Hurricane, Typhoon, P-40, Mosquito, Ju-87, IL-2, and MANY more equally had these same exact vulnerabilities, yet are never equally criticized. Many Mustangs shot down were not due to hitting the radiators. For example, Preddy was hit by two bullets to his person directly, and he belly landed successfully, was taken to a field hospital and died of his wounds.

[@worldofwarbirds]

"Hurricane, Typhoon, P-40, Mosquito, Ju-87, IL-2, and MANY more equally had these same exact vulnerabilities, yet are never equally criticized." It's true and they were all used in this role...I wonder what it is about the Mustang that draws the critique?

[@SoloRenegade]

@@worldofwarbirds the Mustang truly was the top fighter of WW2, it was amazing. when you're the best at anything, people criticize and challenge you mercilessly out of jealousy and competition. They will nit pick and seek to find and exaggerate any and all flaws or perceived flaws in an attempt to dethrone you. The fact you bring this up is extremely uncommon among discussions I have about teh P-51. Not many people are willing to give the P-51 a fair shake, as you just demonstrated in this comment. SO thank you for that. I have been researching WW2 fighters intensely for for many years now, and have even challenged and beat Greg on certain arguments (overall he does an amazing job, but on the P-47 range 'conspiracy' I proved him wrong, using the very sources he cited, but he left out critical details from those sources and he failed to take into account the larger logistical and planning conditions that also affected the A-36).

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@worldofwarbirds Ignorance and EGO's !!!!

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

@@SoloRenegade TRUE!!!!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

The massive P-47 turbo system & ducting, heat exchanger was very vulnerable. Once hit, the Jug would limp home low level on its supercharger, leaving bombers exposed.

[@paulking7019]

I fly RC planes and have two P-51Ds and a P-51B. The A 36 Apache seems to be very rare when it comes to building a flying model aircraft. I have often thought of modifying my P-51B into an Apache and it should not be that difficult to do. Functional dive breaks in the wings would be the most difficult thing to add. I would need to cut into the balsa covering and then recover both wings. Molding a new nose cowling is easier and can be done with heat and a plastic 2 liter soda bottle of all things. I have never done this because the P-51B/C is also rarely modeled itself. There are far too many P-51Ds. They bore me.

[@worldofwarbirds]

I’d love to see that in action!

[@paulking7019]

@@worldofwarbirds If you do a search on youtube you can see an RC P-51B like the one I have. I lost my drop tanks. I could easily come up with bombs to replace them. Just Search for E-Flite Platinum Series P-51B Mustang 32e. Eflite has discontinued this plane. I like stuff I can fit in my car easily. Thank you for your interest!

[@MakeAWishMike]

I’ve played over 1000 hours of warthunder and the a36 was my introduction into the P51 line, and probably the first time I REALLY enjoyed a plane and got into the air trees. I STILL didn’t know the a36 had air brakes until today. I genuinely thought it was the pre-production/test plane version of the p51

[@worldofwarbirds]

Are you able to able to deploy the dive brakes in the game? I only just started playing.

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Mapster Pay attention, one of the main differences of the A36 Apache !!!

[@CartGoBroom]

same here, never had used the air brakes in the game, as far as i know it doesnt have

[@creepermariguano942]

@@CartGoBroom it has

[@mustangtmg]

DIVE- BRAKES and it's name, all y'all, is "MUSTANG" - never called "Apache" until about 25 yrs after the War ended and some folks who didn't know what they were looking at, thought that it was the original Mustang Mk I fighters that NAA named "Apache" for a while, but that name was dropped before the A-36 contract was written and signed.

[@SoloRenegade]

4:50 the MkI, MkIa Mustangs already had tested carrying bombs, rockets, and Cannon pods as well.

[@thelandofnod123]

Intro music induces parade PTSD, especially when you’re the last SQN and know you’re going to be waiting a very, very long time to step off.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Sorry about that! As former Black Watch, the "Black Bear" by pipes and drums would do it to me!

[@MarkkuKoljonenwTinja]

Thanks!

[@andrewwaterman9240]

In his book "Brave Men" Ernie Pyle devotes a chapter to his stay with an A-36 squadron in Italy. Very interesting reading.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks. I've added it to my library app reading list.

[@ivanhicks887]

Very Very Interesting Presentation - I am 91 Korean War Vet Thankyou

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thank you for your service and I am glad that you enjoyed it!

[@ivanhicks887]

@@worldofwarbirds Thankyou

[@g54b95]

This was good. Never heard of this. I don't think you're some AI bot at this point. I subscribed.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for the sub! I'm def not an AI Bot, although maybe my work would get done faster if I was...

[@shawncarroll5255]

I sadly do not recall the source, whether it was a video or interviews with pilots who flew them in Italy. They commented that the very high pullout speed and steep angle of attack compared to other allied aircraft meant that anti-aircraft fire had a tendency to trail the actual position of the aircraft badly enough that it was mostly ineffective against them. Even though doctrinally it didn't happen, it would have been interesting if the Army Air Corps had trained and deployed the A36 against Japanese shipping in the Pacific theater. I'm especially thinking around the Eastern Solomons and New Guinea.

[@kenfrutiger2471]

That's a quote by James Cagney!!

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks!

[@kiwidiesel]

Definitely subscribed and the 20mm hispano cannon model the British had would have been a savage surprise.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thank you for joining us!

[@DogVonDobie]

The US also used that version.

[@BobSmith-dk8nw]

The thing with Kelsey, who had been flying since he was 15, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_S._Kelsey was that he had an Engineering degree from MIT and had participated in their Aeronautical Engineering Studies after graduating. So - he was only a Lt. but he was an educated and experienced one. The problem was - he couldn't be everywhere at once. He had wanted them to put a Supercharger on the P-39 - but - in his absence while in Europe - NACA did a wind tunnel test on it that determined that the scoop for the Supercharger was causing drag which was slowing the plane down - so they took the Supercharger out. Kelsey said that he regretted not having been available to scotch that decision as it made the P-39 worthless at anything over 15,000 ft. The United States was completely unprepared for WWII - and this is only one of a vast number of things that indicate how unprepared it was. Another such situation was how they had to take the Mustangs - which were totally unsuited to ground attack - and make Dive Bombers out of them - to keep them in production. .

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks for all those extra details!

[@bobsakamanos4469]

P-39's had an integral supercharger in its Allison. You mean to say turbo charger; however the P-39 was too small for that and had a very high wing loading without the turbo. Yes, the inlets for the turbo intercooler did create more drag which defeated the purpose of the system. The P-39 had a host of handling problems regardless.

[@richardwitt4342]

I had an opportunity to fly in the A-36. Howeve I chose to go with the B17 because I was with a companion. Anyway I was very interested in this plane because of talk (by pilots referring to ""the 2-seat P-51" I argued that no combat P-51 ever had 2-seats. While this vid exposes the facts, not many of these guys just never heard of the A-36!

[@1982joe1982]

90 some % of warbird fans have no idea how early the Mustangs origins ran - also how low ribboned the Senior Pilot and Command Pilot achievers were at the time as indicated by some of the stills of pilots in this video - they actually did it in flight, not in just years of just being there

[@TheGulfwind]

My father, Colonel Robert C. Paul was commander of the 86th Bomb group from August 1942 to December 1943 in Italy. They were equipped with the A-36 Apache

[@worldofwarbirds]

Hello and thanks for commenting! Do you know if they actually referred to it as the "Apache"? I've discovered (with the release of this episode) how big of a controversy it is!

[@thelandofnod123]

@@TheGulfwind Do you know what his and the Groups thoughts on it were?

[@mustangtmg]

@@worldofwarbirds - I have seen and read the accounts of A-36 pilots who were interviewed by writers and then the writers "edited," shall we say, the words of the guys that they'd interviewed, and the INTERVIEWER inserted the "Apache" name. I know this for a fact inthe case of an article supposedly written by an A-36A pilot in the 27th FBG (the other group besides the 86th FBG in the MTO that flew A-36A Mustangs).

[@rose415]

I’m sure you know that you mentioned Cavaliers but showed piper enforcer. Ty for video

[@worldofwarbirds]

Ooops that one got by me! Thanks for pointing it out!

[@MGB-learning]

Great video

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks!

[@carlpopkins4]

Planes of Fame Museum, located in Chino, CA. , I think, still has one.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Really? Good to know,

[@cameronkedas3375]

Great video, and the best part is that you didn’t use an AI voiceover

[@worldofwarbirds]

Thanks! I prefer the human voice too!

[@Tireledhwen]

Good grief Charlie Brown, this thing was SCREAMING when it hurtled to the Earth lmfao

[@georgestemple3310]

New subscriber great story hopefully will have that soon

[@jesuschristpose896]

The Black Widow P61 my favorite WWII planes, do a segment on this plane

[@worldofwarbirds]

P-61 Black Widow: Northrop's Sexy Nightstalker kzbin.info/www/bejne/laq9pmWZaJ55Y9k

[@jesuschristpose896]

@worldofwarbirds you the man

[@Renshen1957]

A total of 500 A-36 dive bombers served in the Mediterranean and Southeast Asia theaters during World War II before being withdrawn from operational use in 1944. As fighting intensified in all theaters where the A-36A operated, the dive bomber began to suffer an alarming loss rate with 177 falling to enemy action. One Ace out of 81 kills, not unusual for ground attack aircraft. That's a kill to loss ratio of 0.45 to 1. The one "Achilles' heel" of the A-36A, P-51A and the entire Mustang series remained the ventral-fuselage location of the radiator/cooling system. Why the USAF used F-51 in Korea, when National Guard possessed F-47 being the late model variants in the US. The Jugs were more rugged and equal range. Yes, there were more F-51's, but the F-47 had a better record for low level, more reliable power plant and could carry more bombs for close support missions. The F-51 in Korean service suffered in the similar altitudes that the A-36 and dive brakeless P-51A (used in the same mission). According to one veteran pilot at the lower altitude for ground attack, a P-40 could turn inside the P-51 in a turn.

[@worldofwarbirds]

Although I had a comment above that a whole series of ground attack aircraft (Hurricane, Typhoon, P-40, Mosquito, Ju-87) all had the same-type cooling system and never get grief for it. It really makes me wonder....

[@ScoopsTV]

​@worldofwarbirds yeah but that all had higher loss rates then the aircooled p47 and fru

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@worldofwarbirds it's only because of the P-47 fanboys who are defensive about the Jug's lack of range which caused so many bombers to be shot down in 1943-44.

[@brianperry]

Leonard Cheshire VC flew an early version of the Mustang….with a spitfire type bubble canopy. He used it as a target marker aircraft for heavy bombers….

[@wilburfinnigan2142]

Not bubble canopy but a "Malcom hood" !!!!

[@TheBruces56]

It's not "Whispering Death", it's "Whistling Death" which is what the Japanese called the F4U Corsair. Apparently due to the characteristic whistle it made when close.

[@worldofwarbirds]

"Whispering Death" was the supposed Japanse nickname for the Beaufighter. The story is that the sleeve-valves were more quiet- but I can't see how two 1,500 hp Bristol Hercules engines could ever be described as "whispering"!

[@TheBruces56]

@@worldofwarbirds Interesting, I never heard that. Thanks for the feedback.

[@MortonBartlett-yy3cn]

​@@worldofwarbirdsApparently when the Beau was approaching from head on it was much quieter

[@peebeedee6757]

@TheBruces56 : Ever heard a Japanese try to say Whispering ?

[@TheBruces56]

@@peebeedee6757 Lol...I'm sure they said "Rispering death"

[@ultimobile]

interesting - thank you !