A BAPTIST Discovers the EARLY CHURCH was CATHOLIC (w/ Brayden Cook)

[@DivineMercy0414]

I bounced around from denomination to denomination never always be left unsatisfied until I started looking into the Catholic Church I’m now in RCIA because of both of you and a few others thank you guys for all yall do.

[@ContendingEarnestly]

Joining a church won't save you. Youre bouncing around maybe because you haven't met your savior yet? Churches don't provide salvation, Jesus does.

[@DivineMercy0414]

@@ContendingEarnestly Well no crap I know that but the church you go to does impact your beliefs.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

AMAZING!! Praying for you, my brother. That’s so good to hear!

[@ContendingEarnestly]

@@DivineMercy0414 *Well no crap I know that but the church you go to does impact your beliefs.* Finding a church with a statement of faith isn't rocket science. You can certainly find a church that aligns with your beliefs. If youre bouncing from denom to denom looking, i guarantee you the rcc isn't the church youre looking for.

[@DivineMercy0414]

@@ContendingEarnestly I honestly have no intention in making Christians look bad so I apologize for my rudeness but i am not to far in RCIA so I’m not going to debate you on this topic I don’t want to speak on a topic I’m not to familiar with at this moment.

[@davidgallegos4771]

It's so crazy that im coverting now after being a staunch anti catholic just a few short months ago. Thank you to all your great work brother 🙏 God bless

[@glennlanham6309]

it doesn't take long once folks starting looking at early church history...its getting people to DO IT that cracks my brain...I live in NC and wrack my brain trying to figure out how to get Baptists out of this circular argument...

[@BensWorkshop]

Welcome home!

[@batboy49]

I know how you feel. When I was a teen ager I decided I had to save me some Catholics and I had a great idea. I thought I would look at the earliest Christians and use their quotes to convert Cathlolics the the Assembly of God. What a surprise to me too, it wasn't two months into it I had realized that Catholicism was true and all Protestantism was simply false.

[@BensWorkshop]

@@batboy49 There's a meme you will see posted by Catholics of the old man with a cup of coffee looking at a computer in two pictures. Top one at the laptop screen, bottom looking towards the camera. Top caption: "Looking into the early Church to prove the protestant viewpoint." Bottom caption: "And now I'm Catholic"

[@batboy49]

@@BensWorkshop I had no idea about that meme, I did that about 33 years ago now :)

[@thecatechumen]

Thanks for having me!

[@AngelGonzalez-ng9ve]

Great video my kind Sr. 🍞🍷⛪️🔑🕊📖

[@BensWorkshop]

Welcome home!

[@ThruTheUnknown]

The problem with ex protestant catholics is that they won't address doctrine that protestants find really difficult i.e. the fact the majority of Christians will end up in purgatory and hence 1) seeking to obtain indulgences or 2) kneeling before statues and 3) telling Mary they are her servant. I bet majority of ex protestants now catholic don't do any of 1), 2) and 3). #proveMeWrong. As such I don't think they are best apologetists for catholicism as they have really just become a high church Anglican dressed up as a catholic.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Anytime!

[@miracles_metanoia]

I like your YT channel!! Keep up the great work both of you

[@wjtruax]

Additional comment: My ignorance of Catholic doctrine was invincible...until it wasn't. When I first looked into the ancient Church, I didn't see "Catholicism" right away. What I did see was something that looked absolutely nothing like the Christianity I had been practicing for 40+ years. That was a major problem and my first major decision point. It was either turn away from what I was learning and try to be content in my Reformed Presbyterianism, or "unmoor" my spiritual ship from my "homeland" and seek more fruitful shores. I was "unmoored" or "untethered" for almost three years. That was hard.

[@carakerr4081]

I agree as I was a Protestant for 10 years before reverting to the Catholic Church. As a Protestant I identified as a born again evangelical Christian and didn’t consider being a Catholic. It wasn’t until Jesus asked me himself through prayer to return to His Church the Catholic Church. Now I receive all of the Sacraments - the body and blood of Christ in the Holy Eucharist, Gods grace and forgiveness in Confession, and the grace of having our marriage con validated in the Catholic Church. It is truly the most amazing experience being a Catholic I pray all Christians become Catholic ❤

[@simonslater9024]

You were NOT an evangelical Christian you belonged to the evangelical CULT and served Satan. To be Christian one must be Catholic and loyal obedient to Rome or HELL awaits. You have the holy Catholic Church. You have 48,000 man made protestant CULTS that serve Satan. The Bible is a Catholic book which condemns protestant’s and protestantism which is satanic nonsense.

[@bhvghvfy]

Please do not use the word "reverting". REVERT has a specific meaning under Islam and is openly used by Muslims to describe converts. The word is used to assert an illegitimate continuity and historicity over Christianity. I understand what you mean, but it can be misperceived.Thnx.

[@zackwumpus9364]

@@bhvghvfy "(revert to) return to (a previous state, practice, topic, etc.): "he reverted to his native language" · "he ignored her words by reverting to the former subject"" Are you really going to let some Muslims steal a normal english word.

[@nancyshookedoncrochet526]

I recently returned to the church. Pray for me. 🙏

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Praying for you!

[@Catholiclady3]

I came home 2 years ago and I would recommend staying in prayer as much as you can and pray the rosary daily. Mary has been amazing at keeping me from oppression. Having my house blessed helped me a lot too. Keep learning about your faith too. Welcome home! God is moving in a big way right now! God bless you

[@Spiritof76Catholic]

@@nancyshookedoncrochet526 Welcome home Nancy. I returned home myself 24 years ago and have never regretted it.

[@MichElle-zc9tu]

Nancy, I will pray for you daily.

[@NaothemBaitekuki]

Welcome Home 🙏

[@wjtruax]

My conversion from hard-core Reformed Presbyterianism to the Catholic Church took almost three years in total. In my conversations with people who are still in the Reformed/evangelical world, I find that evidence and facts are really secondary to most of them. Their primary “obstacle to objectivity” is a combination of pride and fear that is unique to each individual. Their pride is simply not being willing to submit their theology to any authority other than their own conscience, while their fear is that they might be led astray by such submission.

[@robbchristopher158]

The Anglican and Lutheran churches are good enough for me. Hey since you're becoming a Catholic now why don't you petition the leaders to start letting the priests get married if they want to. I am definitely going to be delivering letters to the Catholic Church demanding that they allow priests to get married and of course they're not going to listen.

[@robbchristopher158]

Catholic Church today is like the ones in the first century that Paul spoke of who were forbidding to marry.

[@wjtruax]

@@robbchristopher158 “good enough for me.” That seems to make your opinion the standard.

[@wjtruax]

@@robbchristopher158 only Roman Rite priests are prohibited from being married prior to ordination. Many Eastern Rite priests are married. The prohibition is very clear. It’s not a secret that if a man seeks ordination as a Roman Rite priest, he will have to take a vow of lifetime celibacy just before ordination. The discernment process for becoming a priest is extensive. There are many “off-ramps” along the way. No one is forced into it at all. Paul’s criticism against those who “prohibited marriage” was aimed at those who taught a blanket prohibition for all believers.

[@alhilford2345]

​@@robbchristopher158: I'm wondering why on earth an Anglican/Lutheran would care whether or not Catholic priests marry! I have no opinion at all concerning your Protestant clergy, but go ahead and write your letters if you like. One more thing, go back to your Bible and you'll see that St. Paul never forbids marriage, he simply points out that the celibate, single state is preferable.

[@stevennowak6504]

This is a great video. I have been Catholic for 30 years and even before that I didn't go to any church but always felt if I did go to church it would be Catholic. So for me this is fascinating to hear what protestant are told about the Catholic church and how they just leave out so much Information about us. This was a fun, and eye opening video

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@MaranglikPeterTo-Rot]

Welcome home brother in Christ.

[@clementartaeq]

Thank you guys following you from Myanmar (former Burma). So great life testimony indeed it is. God bless both of you and who commanded across this video.❤❤❤❤❤

[@FlorianSawanBahin]

Pls give your guest 99.99% time to talk like Marcus Brodi shows does, but thanks for doing a great job!!! We cradle Catholics in Papua New Guinea and around the world are enriching our faith!!! God bless you and your great work.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Yes! Thanks for your feedback. Normally the guest does most of the talking but after Brayden finished his story this became more of a discussion.

[@siddywiddyb]

@@TheCordialCatholic Yes this is evident from the majority of your Videos! Thanks a lot Keith for these ultra interesting discussions! God bless.

[@rosiegirl2485]

I enjoyed watching both of you engaging in intelligent Catholic conversation. As an un-caticised Cradle Catholic, these conversations really help me to understand why we believe what we do as Catholics. Thank you both. It was very fruitful for me! 🙏

[@BensWorkshop]

@@TheCordialCatholic I often find myself thinking you speak just enough, but not too much.

[@kameijohnwilson9208]

In my opinion, he is talking the right amount.

[@ezrahtogabalaguguwa3565]

I love your work promoting catholic ,and promoting truth when you can bring to live such a story,may the good lord blessyou

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thank you!

[@elispena1719]

😍😇Welcome brother to the fullness of the truth. I love to hear beautiful testimony like yours, Thank for sharing your story.

[@matthewpropst5893]

I am currently doing my masters of Biblical Literature at ORU! I became Catholic a little over a year ago while being a student through the guidance of the same professor he is mentioning. Happy that God has brought me to the Catholic Church and seeing others at ORU also doing the same!

[@earlwhite3760]

The falling away is happening no doubt.

[@CMVBrielman]

40:41 This is why I like to joke that there’s no cafeteria protestants - they just move to a church that matches what they believe. Cafeteria Catholics, by their nature, implicitly witness to the fact that there’s a proper authority.

[@vincentcoppola9832]

Don't understand. Doesn't a cafeteria Catholic, in rejecting part of the catholic doctrine, consider himself to be the proper authority and not the catholic church?

[@CMVBrielman]

@@vincentcoppola9832 By being a cafeteria or cultural Catholic, they’re saying that they’re not in full agreement with the Church. At the same time, they still call themselves Catholic. They’re not starting their own Church. I’m not defending the logic of the position, just observing that the implication is that, since they’re still nominally Catholic, they’re accepting that it is the True Church, even while they can’t bring themselves to conform to its teachings.

[@DadoMac]

@@CMVBrielman I know a lot of Cafeteria Catholics- most of the belongs to some other sects and denominations now. Weak Catholics.

[@katiek.8808]

A weak Roman stays in what is obviously not the true church. When the Roman bishop took his ball and left you all followed him out of the one true church. Learning church history will teach you this.

[@LUK77ACH]

Total nonsense, but uneducated people will take that as the truth. )))

[@Eve-Nicholson]

The Nicene Creed summarises it all.

[@marissabuyao2092]

love listening like this while walking.

[@jowardseph]

Was wondering when he’d show up on your channel! Excited to listen!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Hope you enjoy! It was a great conversation.

[@DaynaRathman]

More details in the differences is very helpful so others can understand. Not just the experience and the feelings that results.

[@AdrianaMontemayor7]

WONDERFUL VIDEO ❤ GOD BLESS HIS ONE AND ONLY CATHOLICH CHURCH ✝️😊

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@sopad4629]

Baptist is just a new religion. A lot of Martyrs and Saints in the original Church established by Jesus, who follows the will of the Father like Jesus. God help us all Christians.

[@borneandayak6725]

Agree, its not a Church that Christ established.

[@_stars_at_nite_7184]

Great show! Thank you both for the work you put in to make exceptional content! 🙏🏼

[@halleylujah247]

Yay!🎉 You got Brayden on now all you need are Kyle and Drew.😉 Brayden is awesome he is great at articulating reasons.

[@AngelGonzalez-ng9ve]

Yup. God bless. Whos kyle and Drew?...... 🕊🍷🍞⛪️🔑🙏🏻

[@MrMASSEYJONES]

Mother Angelica (founder of EWTN) seems to once have opined, that failed Protestants make the best Catholics; and that failed Catholics make the worst Protestants. But, for every Protestant who converts to Catholicism; 7 others leave the Catholic Church to become Protestants One of hundreds of denomination, where you can sorta do your thing; just choose one, which suits your lifestyle. (I'm "Cradle Catholic" and 4th Degree KofC)

[@Spiritof76Catholic]

Jesus told the 2,000 year old unbroken line of successors back to the Apostles how to behave in the Church of the living God that he built. Protestants tell Jesus what he should have done.

[@BensWorkshop]

Great interview! Many thanks!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching and your kind words, as always!

[@AngelGonzalez-ng9ve]

Great video. Great Guest. God bless..🍷🍞⛪️🔑🕊📖

[@justinjones2160]

Could yall recommend a book based on the early church being catholic? I currently don’t have time to read all the early church fathers collectively.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Yes! I would recommend Jimmy Akin’s Fathers Know Best!

[@justinjones2160]

@ awesome thanks so much and God bless!

[@roddumlauf9241]

For me, "A BAPTIST Discovers the EARLY CHURCH was CATHOLIC" is true to me also. But I did not convert to the Roman Church because the Early Church points more to the Orthodox Church, the Church of the East, and not the Western Church. I'm a very happy English Catholic with Eastern leanings. I thank God for the Early Church Fathers, because through their writings I have found my home in the Anglo-Catholic Church.

[@BensWorkshop]

Do you mean the one started because its head wanted to have sex with his mistress but she refused him unless they were married necessitating a divorce?

[@borneandayak6725]

Roman Catholic Church is just a branch rite of Catholic Church, the other rites are the Antiochian and Alexandrian rites who in Catholicism labelled " Eastern Catholic Churches" or "Oriental Catholic Churches" who are fully in communion with the Pope of Rome.

[@borneandayak6725]

Anglo-Catholic Church is a protestant church that imitate the Catholic Church in order for them to look old and ancient. The real Anglo-Catholic are the Catholic Church of England, not the what so called "Anglo-Catholic Church" who are protestanism in disguise.

[@DD-bx8rb]

@@borneandayak6725 There is no "Roman Catholic Church". The Church is called the Catholic Church, and part of it is the Roman Rite, or Latin Church, or Roman Church. You are erroneously using the pejorative term invented by the Protestants.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

@@borneandayak6725 you forget the Byzantine rite and the maronite rite

[@curtismarsh4528]

The earliest followers of Jesus, often called followers of The Way, saw themselves as part of the Jewish tradition, rather than adherents to a new religion. They believed Jesus was the long-awaited Jewish Messiah, whose coming was foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures. This movement of believers did not initially intend to break away from Judaism; instead, they saw their faith in Jesus as a fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and expected that other Jews would join them in this belief.

[@geordiewishart1683]

Why can you not tell the difference between Jew and Israelite? Judaism began in Babylon. It is not the faith of Moses

[@kylesilva4063]

I agree when you really study church history it shocks you when you’re coming from Protestantism. My theology has radically changed since studying church history but it hasn’t led me to the Catholic Church. I can see how it might lead others there though.

[@RitaGatton]

We welcome you to follow the true Church that Jesus founded in Matthew 16:18-19. It is the Catholic Church.

[@calmontes651]

The Orthodox Church is not united, the Protestant churches are not united. I guess Jesus understands human nature so he gave the keys to Peter for a reason. The Catholic Church is a tree that branches fall off but the trunk is still solid.

[@kylesilva4063]

@ in my opinion the Catholic Church has clear issues. Augustine brought in a heresy by creating a false heresy. He effectively changed western Christianity. Until Rome can recognize that I would never even consider Catholicism.

[@rigavitch]

@@calmontes651 PEOPLE are not united. So...?

[@zackwumpus9364]

@@rigavitch its a church. also The Catholic church is united, if people arent united by the CC was able to, isnt that a miracle

[@anniesue4456]

Men .. 23 mins in ... Structure ... Origins .... Authenticity ... Queen of heaven

[@jonatasmachado7217]

Excellent content

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Thanks for watching!

[@hailholyqueen]

So I gotta ask. What is a non-denominational Baptist?

[@Kitiwake]

He's a great guy

[@michaelpcooksey5096]

Suggestion: You have good choices of people to interview and your enthusiasm and heart orientation is right on target. How about improving the presentation? Take a serious outside view with objectivity. It’s hard but you will profit from it. 1. You present two screens of equal size. You are around 2 feet from the camera while the person interviewed is 4-5 feet from the camera. Who is closer and demanding more attention from the viewer? 2. Your level of activity is almost constant with bobbing the head, shifting in the chair, and verbal affirmations. It acts like a scene stealing tactic used by competitive movie stars. 3. Go through this presentation and add up the minutes you talk [including the start up] and compare it to Mr. Cook. Who do you want the audience to listen to? Host vs Guest: 50 - 50%? 25 - 75% 15 - 85%? 4. The expectancy was getting a conversion story. Instead of gently keeping Mr Cook on point [he did tend to ramble] … the entire interview turned into a subject discussion on Catholic and Protestant reference moorings. 5. How about making the person interviewed screen completely dominant and yours a mini insert in the lower right corner? Take a look at other interviewers for improved technique … like say Eddie Trask. Can you learn from him? All that looked at … thank you for your efforts and please keep up the show.

[@cynthiax56]

The following is in the bible and is confirmed by the writings of the first century church fathers:.... ➨ JESUS gives authority of the Church TO PETER the first Pope. (NOT TO CONSTANTINE, Not to Luther, not Calvin, not Ellen White or any other "reformer" ) ✦ MATT 16:13-19: Jesus gives keys of the Kingdom to PETER and builds his church upon PETER. ✦ ACTS 15:7-12: "After much debate had taken place, PETER got up and said to them, “My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you THAT THROUGH MY MOUTH THE GENTILES WOULD HEAR THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL AND BELIEVE." ✦ JOHN 21:15-19: Jesus tells PETER to "Feed my sheep" ✦ HEBREWS 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. ✦ JOHN 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. ➨ ➨ HISTORICAL EVIDENCE: ➨ The body of PETER now lies under the altar of St Peter's basilica. Evidence is even shown by unbiased secular media giants National Geographic, A&E & a book: "The Bones of St Peter" ➨ WRITINGS FROM THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS: The word "Catholic" was used to describe the church in writing in the year 110 by St Ignatius of Antioch, and was used in a manner which suggests that it was already in use and understood. These writings also confirm Catholic teachings, not protestant teachings, and thgey confirm PETER as head of the church. Sources for the writings of the early church:

[@mr.e8432]

I’m a little confused, are you guys trying to say that the early church didn’t use electronic drums, smoke machines, lightshows, or auto tune?

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Believe it or not…

[@phil4v8]

Dear young man maybe give your guest more time to speak. 🙏💞🌏🙏

[@David-os2fb]

😁

[@Kitiwake]

Host is on fire.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

@@Kitiwake Put me out!!! 🔥🔥🔥

[@kamila3362]

This is mind-blowing for an european Catholic to discover HOW American Protestantism over complicated things 😂

[@bessonnet]

Saint Peter was the first Pope...

[@rigavitch]

Linus was actually!

[@rigavitch]

23:44 Huh? the Orthodox Church didn't split off from anywhere!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

The earliest Christian sources like Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of John, writing in 110AD indicates that one of the signs of unity with the Church Christ founded is unity to the Church at Rome. The Orthodox did, sadly, split from that unity.

[@rigavitch]

@@TheCordialCatholic Nope. Incomplete "evidence"...

[@PrzybyszzMatplanety]

The Orthodox Churches constantly splitted from the unity with the Universal Church and it was Rome that had to return them to the fold. Learn your history - majority of heresies came from the Greeks.

[@jwilsonhandmadeknives2760]

The Orthodox did split from Rome. then they split from each other... several times. There is no "One Orthodox Church". Eastern, Russian, Syrian, Greek, Oriental... some now commune with each other but none with all.

[@rigavitch]

@@jwilsonhandmadeknives2760 Oh dear. Please tell me you are a teenager who hasn't understood what they are speaking about before commenting. This is simply WRONG and obviously at that!

[@HaleStorm49]

We now call it the early church... But to the original saints it was the post church.

[@anniesue4456]

Why do men always feel they must justify being attracted to the simple beauty of something already founded or discovered

[@johnnyg3]

Catholic ❤️

[@americanswan]

Learn about the Waldenses persecution.

[@paulsmallwood1484]

A Protestant response: Irenaeus is a useful authority, but we must remember that he was not a recipient of divine revelation, but merely reported on what he was told. His list of apostolic succession of the Bishops of Rome, produced at the end of the 2nd century, is at odds with the evidence we have for the time. He believed the list of apostolic succession he was given and used it in his argument, but he can provide no authority beyond that the Church at the end of the 2nd century had such a list and was presenting it as fact. It is perfectly possible for a church father to be mistake in such a way. Augustine famously based one of his main arguments about the nature of hell on the fact that a salamander can live in fire and not be consumed. Yet as we now know, this attribute of the salamander is fictional. Many learned men can believe the information they hear on trust, though they have no ability to prove whether they are true or not, and many Church fathers have thus believed incorrect things, and used these inaccurate understandings as part of their theological arguments, honestly, and without aiming to deceive. In fact St Jerome, writing much later, showed he was aware of an alternative understanding of the early governance of the Church. He wrote in his Commentary on Titus: “The presbyter is the same as the bishop, and before parties had been raised up in religion by the provocations of Satan, the churches were governed by the Senate of the presbyters. But as each one sought to appropriate to himself those whom he had baptized, instead of leading them to Christ, it was appointed that one of the presbyters, elected by his colleagues, should be set over all the others, and have chief supervision over the general well-being of the community. . . Without doubt it is the duty of the presbyters to bear in mind that by the discipline of the Church they are subordinated to him who has been given them as their head, but it is fitting that the bishops, on their side, do not forget that if they are set over the presbyters, it is the result of tradition, and not by the fact of a particular institution by the Lord”. To understand the development of the episcopate, we must look at the evidence from the time, not what later writers believed about that time. And earlier evidence does not support an unbroken line of Bishops from the apostles to Irenaeus’ time. Rather it supports the alternative view, that it was a later development, and the earliest means of Church government in Rome (and elsewhere) was a council of elders, which at some point elected someone from amongst their number to oversee their worship. Ignatius wrote at the beginning of the first century. In every letter he writes to each church, he addresses their bishop. Yet when he wrote to the church at Rome, he gives no indication that he was aware of a bishop there. The Shepherd of Hermes presents a picture of the church of Rome at the beginning of the first century being led by elders rather than a Bishop. The Didache, also around the beginning of the first century says: “And so, elect for yourselves bishops and deacons who are worthy of the Lord”, referring to plural bishops, in the same way as the first epistle of Clement refers to plural bishops. As we know from the evidence from the earliest days of the church, the title of bishop was synonymous with that of elder, and not a separate office (see Acts 20:17-28 where Paul directly calls the elders of the church ‘bishops’). It is likely the situation described by Jerome, where Bishops became a separate office elected by the elders to exercise order over squabbling religious parties occurred at different points in each church, but for Rome, it was likely at some point between Ignatius’ letter to Rome (around 110), and some decades before Irenaeus’ time.

[@DD-bx8rb]

You mean "a Protestant cut & paste".

[@paulsmallwood1484]

@@DD-bx8rb Did my post threaten your preconceived notions? Just take a couple of deep breaths and relax a moment, you’ll be ok.

[@bigtobacco1098]

​@@paulsmallwood1484breathe yourself 😅😅😅 I'll take texts closer to apostles than your INTERPRETATION

[@elperinasoswa6772]

LOL This guy!!😂😂😂 Ireneus possibly wrong?? How about you also take a look at youreslf and Protestanism and give it the same scrutiny? If the ppl closer to the Apostles could possibly be wrong, what make you far removed from them possibly be right?

[@bigtobacco1098]

@paulsmallwood1484 there is no baptist church in church history

[@drkarenhanson]

❤

[@hertz1992-x3q]

🙏🙏🙏😇❤️❤️❤️⛪️🇵🇭❤️❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏🙏😇

[@robinconnelly6079]

Or was it orthodox? The orthodox guys say that you broke away from them and you say the same back. It's actually a bit of a debate. After going through church history, id say the early church was closer to orthodox.

[@srich7503]

You will have to answer the question first - “which Orthodox, since they are not all in communion with each other?” Before your question can be answered. Hint: the church Jesus established is ONE.🤷🏽‍♂

[@cdb5961]

The early church did not have denominations like today.

[@borneandayak6725]

True, they all Catholic until in 4th, 11th and 16th century, when the Orthodox Church and Protestant created denominations apart from the Catholic Church. Three chief Apostolic Fathers (all three of them are disciples of the apostles) : St.Clement of Rome, St. Ignatius of Antioch and St. Polycarp, they all talking about the Catholic Church as the Church of Christ. For example St. Ignatius of Antioch in one of his letters (to Christians in Smyrna), he wrote : *“Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.”* This is the SECOND earliest known written record of the term “Catholic Church” (written around A.D. 107). The term was FIRST used in The Book of Acts 9:31, the writer use Greek words "ekklesia katholes" (Catholic Church).

[@rigavitch]

@@borneandayak6725 Don't forget LINUS! Pope Linus!!

[@jeromepopiel388]

Brayden seems as if he is willing to be taken in by every wind of doctrine.

[@GodLovesAll-j8j]

Let’s get back to the teaching of Jesus! Just for a moment! MATTHEW 5:21-22: “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ (idiot) is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.” MATTHEW 5:43-48: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

[@johnyang1420]

Thats what the Catholic church is

[@jmspegel]

Hmm I thought that was clear, based on scripture.

[@waltermorozoff5328]

Orthodox!!

[@SolaPastora]

My Pastor said “Once Saved Always Saved” and I should believe him because Sola Scriptura.

[@PrzybyszzMatplanety]

Scripture denies OSAS and affirms you can lose your salvation.

[@rigavitch]

Why would you?

[@SolaPastora]

@@rigavitchare you implying that my pastor believes “once saved always saved” because he has an attachment to sin? And is leading others to unrepentant sin?

[@SolaPastora]

@@PrzybyszzMatplanetybut if I’m a Protestant then I can just say “that’s not what scripture means” and then I can continue to be wrong and say “sola scriptura.”

[@rigavitch]

@@SolaPastora Because we should be following what Jesus, his apostles and their disciples taught us not a pastor who is selling the Sola Scriptura heresy

[@adamnowak926]

👍

[@brucedavenport7016]

Clearly define "the early Church". Are you referring to the Church that Jesus established and the Apostles kept in line ( from 20AD -60AD) or are you referring to a time after that?

[@DD-bx8rb]

20 to 60 AD? The NT clearly shows the Apostles being concerned with, and practicing, apostolic succession for the passing on of Truth, under the Holy Spirit. And there is absolutley no mention of how this will on day be replaced by a practice of Bible-Alone. Bible Alone is simply a tradition of men from the 1500s with absolutley no foundation in the Apostolic age. PAX

[@brucedavenport7016]

@@DD-bx8rb Your catholic dogma shines bright. 20 to 60 AD because that was the life and times of Jesus and the continuation of the original message, by the apostles, direct from the source. Scripture clearly shows the Gospel being changed during Paul's ministry, so there is no argument that the Gospel was being distorted even back then. The argument, from a Christian perspective, is not "Bible alone" The argument is the use of man made traditions to supplement Bible teachings. There are many tradition focussed scriptures, but this one is as good as any: 1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; That is what catholicism is based on. Your default position is "the tradition of the early church fathers" Your default should be "that's what Jesus taught"

[@brucedavenport7016]

@JessicaB-j1g That's catholic dogma, not scriptural truth. There are 2 traditions spoken about in Scripture. The important one is the tradition of faithfully preaching the signs, wonders and miracles Gospel that Jesus preached. 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. The second one, which is the one catholics rely on, is the traditions of men. Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Those 2 types of tradition are diametrically opposed to each other.

[@Faithseekingcatholicity]

Homie just skipped past Reformed Baptist, Presbyterian and Anglican. You sure you didn't jump to fast?

[@MartinFALLS-j4d]

Catholic means UNIVERSAL. The early church was not Roman. It was planted by the apostles all across the know world. Jesus said he will build His Church. He never mentioned Rome taking over his work .. Strange that

[@Entropi_92]

That's why there are 24 autonomous Catholic Church, Rome only one of that. Just because of history (especially islamic invasion to Eastern part of Catholic World/aka Christianity) make Rome Patriarchate looks more prominent. Also because Seat of Peter is Primus Inter Pares between all church.

[@alhilford2345]

The early Church was, and is, Catholic. It's as simple as that!

[@borneandayak6725]

Lol, Roman Catholic Church is just one of three major rites in Catholicism. The two other rites is Antiochian and Alexanderian rites like the Syriac rite, Byzantine rite, Maronite rite, Chaldean rite, Syrio-Malabar rite, and so on...

[@borneandayak6725]

Jesus indeed established His Church on earth and put St. Peter as its foundation and head (Matthew 16:18). St. Peter became the leader of the apostles, he became the Bishop of Rome (pope) and die there. The disciples of the apostles writing about the Church during their time as the Catholic Church, leading by Bishops and Pope of Rome as their leader. Three chief Apostolic Fathers (all three of them are disciples of the apostles) : St.Clement of Rome, St. Ignatius of Antioch and St. Polycarp, they all talking about the Catholic Church as the Church of Christ. For example St. Ignatius of Antioch in one of his letters (to Christians in Smyrna), he wrote : *“Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.”* This is the SECOND earliest known written record of the term “Catholic Church” (written around A.D. 107). The term was FIRST used in The Book of Acts 9:31, the writer use Greek words "ekklesia katholes" (Catholic Church).

[@paulsmallwood1484]

Absolutely correct! You nailed it!

[@RobertWCornell]

first church was Messianic Jews

[@srich7503]

History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, - the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, - the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books, and ONLY the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, - not only did they not agree but their individual lists of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. Therefore, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church, guided by the Holy Spirit, that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 4th century, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved these scriptures by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself? Peace!!!

[@soteriology400]

The writings of the early church has been modified anyway, by Eusebius. Paul never stated to rely on fallible, non-inspired sources. Why not go with the inspired texts instead? Try Acts 8, and compare Simon’s baptism to the Eunuch. John 3:8 is the norm.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

What is your evidence that Eusebius modified the writings of the Early Church?

[@soteriology400]

@@TheCordialCatholic I go over this with several videos on my channel. If you start with "Constantine's Arch, and Why It's Important", it is a starting point. There is a link to a documentary in the description to get started.

[@Catholiclady3]

So did he hunt down every writing and rewrite and destroy them? What about the ones that were found recently after nearly 2000 years of being buried? Did he change those too? That's a crazy conspiracy theory you have there

[@soteriology400]

@@Catholiclady3 In the 4th century, it was actually way easier to rewrite history than one thinks (we have a 21st century mindset). It is not like today, where we have the printing presses, the internet etc. Back then, the only people who had scrolls, were the very wealthy, and they had libraries. It was very easy for a tax collector to assess scrolls back then in the Roman empire. The church and state were also involved with scroll burnings during this time. They used papyrus back then, so there were very few copies if any made of the writings of "church fathers". Not many of the wealthy had copies of such scrolls, containing "church fathers". It was actually way easier than one thinks, to rewrite church history during the 4th century. If a bishop wanted to rewrite history, and he had the emperors back, it was very easy to do. When it came to public libraries, emperors viewed them as their own private property, and if they wanted to change or modify scrolls, they could. It was in the matter of developing relations with the current emperor at the time. Eusebius was Constantine's spiritual advisor btw. He was the one who fabricated the idea Constantine converted to Christianity, which has fooled billions, and he did not stop there. Today, it would be impossible to rewrite history like that. One can only add to history, and make it appear legitimate, which has been done as well.

[@Catholiclady3]

@soteriology400 Prove it. He couldn't have destroyed everything, everywhere. This is a conspiracy theory tat you're promoting. Just because somebody says it, it doesn't means it's true and just because you like te idea, it doesn't mean it's true

[@waynecornell-w5u]

Early Church was Messianic Jews called the Way!

[@drkarenhanson]

Isn't there something in New Testament about Christians being kicked out of the synagogue? Revelation, I think. Why not just go to a regular synagogue then? That's what early Christian Jews did.

[@jgpt857]

…we’re called Christians and finally Catholics in Antioch. (See ignacius’ letter to the Smyrneans 110 AD.)

[@waynecornell-w5u]

@@jgpt857 I would rather read the Bible were it says of the way!, Would like to see you get a Complete Jewish Study Bible as Jesus and His first Apostles were Jewish and read the Traditions and customs of that time frame!!

[@borneandayak6725]

@@waynecornell-w5u the Bible itself was canonized by the Catholic Council, so why follow Catholic Canon and not create your own Bible?

[@borneandayak6725]

The word "Messianic Jews" is just a modern invention. The Bible in Acts 9:31 use the Greek term "ekklesia katholes" (Catholic Church) for the Church during the apostolic time and the disciples of apostles also use the same terminology as the name for the Church that Jesus established. For example St. Ignatius of Antioch who are the disciple of Apostle John in one of his letters (to Christians in Smyrna), he wrote : *“Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.”* This is the SECOND earliest known written record of the term “Catholic Church” (written around A.D. 107), after the Book of Acts.

[@B3na4313]

Why non catholic/Othodox always say/think catholic/orthodox worship Mother Mary?

[@johnalexis8284]

because you do

[@borneandayak6725]

Because their mind was corrupted by a modern day Protestanism and Islamist propaganda.

[@Ruudes1483]

@@johnalexis8284Proof?

[@julieelizabeth4856]

Because once they did away with the sacrifice of the Mass, to them every nod, glance, bow, wink, prayer, kiss, song, etc. etc. is "worship" according to them, but it isn't. That's why we go back to the Latin terms. Dulia is the honor and respect given to saints, hyper-dulia is given to Mary because she is the greatest saint, and Latria is the highest form of worship and is for God alone. The Mass is for God alone.

[@Ruudes1483]

@@johnalexis8284 We don’t tho

[@txdoubletap8509]

Why, why, why ..... True Believers will worship him in spirit and in truth. Pick a side and get on your knees.

[@jeromepopiel388]

I don't go out and pick a tradition. I believe what the Bible says. That is the FEAR of the Lord. Example: Acts 10:44-48 [44]While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [45]And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46]For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, [47]Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [48]And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. There is no interpretation needed unless you want to put your own spin on it. A man is not regenerated by baptism. That is unmistakable. One more example: Acts 8:36-37 [36]And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? [37]And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. No interpretation needed

[@johnyang1420]

Jesus started Catholic church

[@jeromepopiel388]

@@johnyang1420 If Jesus started a particular organization, it would quickly become an idol. We are to go to Him and not an organization. Jesus wants to know each one individually. Hebrews 10:25 [25]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. This is not the definition of a church institution.

[@jeromepopiel388]

@JessicaB-j1g tradition is not the source of life or a sure foundation It is augmentation at best. John 8:31-32 [31]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [32]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Knowing truth and therefore being free depends on continuing in the word of God.

[@RichLunaMusic]

Of course the first denomination was Catholic. Where do you think Protestantism came from?

[@alhilford2345]

Actually, Catholicism is not a denomination. It is The Church!

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

Catholic is not a denomination. It’s the original church.

[@dougmcminn9346]

Weĺl i diont know how they would be Catholic - they were house based churches for the first century and when the believers were persucted but when it grew and became corrupt it became Catholic so yes since the corruption became so prevalent it twisted the scriptures - eg salvation is by grace alone Ephesians 2:8-9 yet Council of Trent says faith plus works and anyone who says otherwise is cursed - in total contradiction to Ephesians. And this guy goes to Oral Roberts Uni and he expects to hear the truth - no wonder hes confused - explain purgotory

[@TheCordialCatholic]

The Council of Trent literally says the opposite. 😇

[@tenerds4569]

Go read margaret barker. Not catholic either

[@gmac8586]

The early Church was Catholic? Duh; who doesn't know that?

[@Christian-jx3nx]

The first church was the disciples of Christ. Evangelical.

[@srich7503]

History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, - the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, - the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books, and ONLY the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, - not only did they not agree but their individual lists of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. Therefore, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church, guided by the Holy Spirit, that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 4th century, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved these scriptures by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself? Peace!!!

[@fantasia55]

joking?

[@CONDACOCLIPS]

Stop talking so much, stop talking over him and if you talk, talk more clearly...you eat some of the syllables.... difficult to understand ...

[@Sirach144]

Yes but the early church wasn’t Roman Catholic. They didn’t even have half of the beliefs that the current RCC has.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Which beliefs are those?

[@Sirach144]

@@TheCordialCatholic Rosary, Infallibility of the Pope, relics and images, kissing popes feet, Holy water, canonization of dead saints, celibacy of priesthood, selling indulgences, purgatory, assumption of body of Mary. These all came centuries and even a millennia after the supposed Catholic Church started.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Paul certainly talks about celibacy in the Bible, they most definitely had relics and images in the Early Church (the Early martyrdom accounts are incredibly detailed) and the concept of sainthood, including praying for and to the dead, was very much established in the primitive Church. Granted, some of the things you listed are later developments what about the necessity of baptism, the Eucharist, the sacrament of reconciliation, the Mass as a sacrifice, the three-fold authoritative structure of the church - all of these were practiced by the Early Church and continue to be 2,000 years later by the Catholic Church.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

@@Sirach144 nobody kisses a Pope’s feet I don’t know where you got that idea from

[@alhilford2345]

​@@Sirach144: You're partially right, the Church was not Roman Catholic because there is no such thing as a Roman Catholic Church. But the Church most definitely was CATHOLIC! The early followers of Christ were called the Way, but, by the year 107AD, they were known as EKKLESIA KATH'OLES, which translates to 'concerning the whole, complete'. In Latin in became UNIVERSUS, whole, all together... We generally use the word 'universal'. The disciplines and liturgy of the Catholic Church has developed organically over the past 2000 years, but the DOCTRINES have never changed; nothing added and nothing removed. The Church teaches the same truths that Our Lord revealed to His Apostles, and many of these truths have been affirmed by dogmas.

[@anthonyfowler2623]

Of course not

[@jeromepopiel388]

It is truly sad that so many churches don't teach how to live the abundant life. They don't teach how to have a living relationship with Christ and be empowered by the Holy Spirit. They don't teach how to find and fulfill your destiny. And most ministers don't model it. The Christian life is so much more, if you know the Lord yourself. Brayden was trying to find fulfillment in a church and not in a relationship with Christ. Such people will keep searching for churches and details of church government that has nothing to do with the gospel.

[@Catholiclady3]

Where in the bible does it say all you have to do is have a relationship with Christ? It's not what Christ taught

[@jeromepopiel388]

@@Catholiclady3 Jesus never did anything except what He saw the Father doing. How can we do it ourselves? John 15:4,7-8 [4]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [7]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [8]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

[@Catholiclady3]

@jeromepopiel388 Yes, but how do you abide in him? How did he say to love him? You do that by keeping his commandments is what he said. You love him by following his teachings. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be in a relationship with Jesus. I'm saying that the relationship has qualifications put on it by Jesus himself. Remember the parable of the goats and the sheep. Not all who say Lord, Lord will be saved, only those who keep his commandments and love their neighbor. Does your relationship with your wife have qualifications or can you just love her and then do whatever you want with whoever you want and still be in a relationship with her?

[@jeromepopiel388]

@@Catholiclady3 If one doesn't keep the command of love then it is a sign that we don't know Him, but It is not the relationship. We established the relationship by faith and continue it by faith in His ability, not ours. Romans 8:14 [14]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[@smeatonlighthouse4384]

Why don't you stop trying to play with words. Everyone knows that the word Catholic means universal. Everyone should know that the Lord Jesus formed just one church, which is His Body. That church had many assemblies, in different areas, especially Turkey (read Revelation ch. 2-3). When the apostles wrote their letters or epistles, they were addressed to the saints and faithful around them all, they were to be shared letters for teaching and doctrine. The apostle Paul wrote one of his letters to the church or assembly at Rome. He did not write to the church OF Rome. The idea that the universal church was the church at Rome or of Rome is just total nonsense and a contradiction of scripture. It was one of Satan's lies, as he was a liar from the beginning. Such a shame too, for the book of Romans is one of the nicest in scripture AND it totally contradicts Roman Catholic teaching on salvation by faith and works.

[@johnyang1420]

Who told you what the bible is? Catholic church did in 4th century

[@alhilford2345]

@smeat...: How would you define 'Roman Catholic teaching' ? I'm asking because there is no 'Roman Catholic Church'.

[@eyeinthesky7336]

It was neither...

[@jeromepopiel388]

Just wondering if Brayden has also denyed salvation by grace and is now gone over to "grace and good works" as the gospel?

[@thisisit2878]

Well hopefully he has, since, as Scripture says, "faith without works is dead".

[@jeromepopiel388]

@@thisisit2878 interesting that is your gospel. Romans 9:11 [11](For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Romans 11:6 [6]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

Matthew 16 verse 27 says something about being judged according to the works

[@jeromepopiel388]

@@femaleKCRoyalsFan not judged according to works, but rather the works are judged to determine the size of REWARD. Eternal life is not a reward, but a free gift because you could never do enough. Matthew 16:27 [27]For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

[@Cesar-pq2ck]

The early was not catholic 🤦🏻‍♂️ After Jesus, the Roman Empire went on to persecute the church for 300yrs until one of its emperors became Christian. Look up The Great Persecution of 303 A.D. The first church was not Catholic and Peter was not the first Pope either. Peter was dead by the time the first pope was elected.

[@srich7503]

Actual history says otherwise… The quotes provided below are historical facts in reference to our early church which existed prior to Rome's adoption of Christianity in 313 A.D. Church: "Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” [St. Ignatius of Antioch - Letter to the Smyrneans 8 (c. A.D. 110)] Bishop, Priest & Deacon: “Since, then, I have had the privilege of seeing you, through Damas your most worthy bishop, and through your worthy presbyters Bassus and Apollonius, and through my fellow-servant the deacon Sotio, whose friendship may I ever enjoy, because he is subject to the bishop as to the grace of God, and to the presbytery as to the law of Jesus Christ [St. Ignatius of Antioch- Letter to the Magnesians 2 (c. A.D. 110)]. Eucharist: “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ, which have come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Ash that suffered for our sins and that the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.” [St. Ignatius of Antioch - Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6-7 (c. A.D. 110)]. Scripture: “Whoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires, and says that there is neither resurrection nor judgment, is the firstborn of Satan. Let us leave the foolishness and the false teaching of the crowd and turn back to the word that was delivered to us in the beginning.” [St. Polycarp of Smyrna - Letter to the Philippians 7 (c. A.D. 135)]. Sunday: “But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.” [St. Justin Martyr - First Apology 67 (c. A.D. 151)]. Actions/Works: “We have learned from the prophets, and we believe it is true, that punishments, and chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man's actions. If it is not so, then all things happen by fate, and nothing is in our own power. If it is fated that this man be good, and this other evil, the former is not meritorious nor the latter blameworthy [St. Justin Martyr - First Apology 43 (c. A.D. 151)]. Apostolic Succession: “It is within the power of all, in every church, who may wish to see the truth, to contemplate clearly the Tradition of the apostles manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in a position to reckon up those who were instituted bishops in the churches by the apostles, and [to demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own times; those who neither taught nor knew anything these [heretics] rave about.” [St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Against Heresies 3:3:1 (c. A.D. 189)] Baptism: “The children shall be baptized first. All the children who can answer for themselves, let them answer. If there are any children who cannot answer for themselves, let their parents answer for them, or someone else from their family.” [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 21 (c. A.D. 215)]. Confession: “After this, one of the bishops present, at the request of all, laying his hand on him who is ordained bishop, shall pray this way: O God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. pour forth the power that is from you, of "the princely Spirit' that you delivered to your beloved Child, Jesus Christ, and that he bestowed on your holy apostles, who established the Church that hallows you everywhere, for the endless glory and praise of your name. Father, "who knows the hearts [of all]” grant this servant, who you have chosen for the episcopate, to feed your holy flock and serve as your high priest blamelessly night and day, and unceasingly turn away wrath from your face and offer to you the gifts of the holy Church. And that by the high priestly Spirit he may have authority "to forgive sins" according to your command.” [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 2-3 (c. A.D. 215)]. Confirmation: “The bishop will then lay his hand upon them, invoking, "Lord God, you who have made these worthy of the removal of sins through the bath of regeneration, make them worthy to be filled with your Holy Spirit, grant to them your grace, that they might serve you according to your will, for to you is the glory, Father and Son with the Holy Spirit, in the holy Church, now and throughout the ages of the ages. Amen." After this he pours the oil into his hand, and laying his hand on each of their heads, says, "I anoint you with holy oil in God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit." Then, after sealing each of them on the forehead, he shall give them the kiss of peace and say, "The Lord be with you." And the one who has been baptized shall say, "And with your spirit." So shall he do to each one [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 21-22 (c. A.D. 215). Peter’s Authority: “The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you,' he says, “that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven. [Mt 16:18-19]. On him he builds the Church, and commands him to feed the sheep [Jn 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed the others were also what Peter was [apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, by which it is made clear that there is one Church and one chair.... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he think that he holds the faith? If he deserts the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he be confident that he is in the Church?.” [St. Cyprian of Carthage - Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition (Treatise 1:4) (A.D. 251)]. These few topics (but a glimpse) were not only discussed but settled BEFORE Rome adopted Christianity (The Catholic Church) and eventually became The Roman Catholic Church as it also adopted its name after 313 A.D. And then there are the historical references to all the popes, mostly “evil popes”, prior to Constantine by many non-Catholics. Did the Catholic Church exist prior to Constantine? Yes! Is the Catholic church the original church Jesus established? YES!!! Peace!!!

[@fantasia55]

There were dozens of Popes before Constantine was born.

[@zackwumpus9364]

Pope means bishop of rome, it is a HISTORICAL FACT that peter was the bishop of rome. Also the church that was persecuted is the Catholic church. The emeperor(Constantine) became a Catholic

[@fantasia55]

@@zackwumpus9364 Pope means daddy. It's a title for Peter and his successors since the fourth century.

[@zackwumpus9364]

@@fantasia55 daddy is not the word the pope means, but my answer is bassicly the same. title for bishop of rome

[@wonderwhen]

Because you're all over the place, it doesn't make much sense.

[@philo-aletheia]

It is simply false to claim that the early Church of Christ and the contemporary Church of Rome (i.e., "Catholic Church") are the same thing. There are many wonderful things about the Church of Rome, and it is obviously an instrument of salvation. However, it is a tragedy when its members claim to be "clearing up misconceptions" or similar when the reality is that they are deeply infected by and perpetuating them.

[@borneandayak6725]

All Christian Catholic until in 4th, 11th and 16th century, when the Orthodox Church and Protestant created denominations apart from the Catholic Church. Three chief Apostolic Fathers (all three of them are disciples of the apostles) : St.Clement of Rome, St. Ignatius of Antioch and St. Polycarp, they all talking about the Catholic Church as the Church of Christ. For example St. Ignatius of Antioch in one of his letters (to Christians in Smyrna), he wrote : *“Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.”* This is the SECOND earliest known written record of the term “Catholic Church” (written around A.D. 107). The term was FIRST used in The Book of Acts 9:31, the writer use Greek words "ekklesia katholes" (Catholic Church).

[@borneandayak6725]

The early Church is Catholic Church : look at their teaching, nothing protestant in it. For example, their leader are Bishops not a pastor like in protestanism today. They all teach the real presence of Christ in Eucharist, while modern day man-made Church (i.e. Protestanism) believe in opposite of what th early Church believe.

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

The Eastern Orthodox is the actual real first church, they were around 1000 years before the Catholic Church split away during the Great Schism. I am doing my research and planning on joining the true first church.

[@rigavitch]

It's a no brainer and I'm always somewhat shocked when people don't realise this! How can one not? Left the occult for the Orthodox Church after researching history...just kept going back further and further until...Jesus and his Apostles...

[@RedWolf5]

No is not brother. There’s no such things as the “orthodox church”

[@kathleenirish1981]

@@rigavitchwhich Orthodox Church? There are so many

[@calmontes651]

That’s like saying you will become Protestant, which flavour of Orthodoxy? I understand they have apostolic succession but not unity, why would Jesus want a divided church when he commanded unity. The only way you can join one united and ancient church is by joining the Catholic Church, then you can choose eastern or western rite but it’s still the same church.

[@rigavitch]

​@@calmontes651Why would you make such a comment when clearly you are quite ignorant on the subject?! Weird...

[@jeromepopiel388]

Brayden's methodology is to forget the Bible and embrace history. Is history guaranteed?

[@ColinCreighton]

And where do you think the Bible came from? Jesus didn't give us the Bible. He gave us His Church. It was tha authority and teaching of the early Church that brought us the Bible. Read the Book of Acts and the letters of the early Church leaders. Many Protestants (especially those in the US) are shocked to learn how Catholic the early Church was.

[@terrydillon9323]

As a woman , too bad we had the creation of all these male religions at all, especially the Catholic religion and Islam that both enslaves women. I just believe in a loving creator for all, not just for men.

[@timhaley3459]

The "early church" was NOT Catholic, but was TRUE Christianity, as Acts 11:26 says: "After he (Barnabas) found him (Saul, also called Paul), he brought him to Antioch (of Syria). So for a whole year they assembled with them in the congregation and taught quite a crowd, and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians (and NOT Catholic)." The word "catholic" means "all-inclusive: including or concerned with all people; useful to all: useful or interesting to a wide range of people; all-embracing: interested in or sympathetic to a wide range of things", whereby it is "14th century. Via Latin catholicus from, ultimately, Greek katholikos “universal (or "one size fits all"),” from katholou “in general (or a general religion, that is composed of "a wide range of things....usefull to all", combining pagan doctrines with so-called Christianity),” from kata “in regard to” + holos “whole.”(Microsoft Encarta Reference Library 2005) At Matthew 13:24-30, Jesus illustrated that TRUE Christianity that he established would become apostate, being infiltrated or infected with false religion for some 1,800 years after all the apostes died, but be restored "in the final part of the days".(Hosea 3:5) The Greek word apostasia (G646), means "defection from truth" (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible), and is found twice in the Bible, at 2 Thessalonians 2:3, whereby the apostle Paul said: "Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it ("day of Jehovah", verse 2, see Isa 2:10-12; Zech 14:1; Note: Jehovah is God's name) will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction". And at Acts 21:21, that says: "But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or to follow the customary practices." The Greek word apostasia has an attachment with the Greek word apostasion (G647) that means "properly, something to separate, i.e. divorce", as at Matthew 19:7: "They said to him: “Why, then, did Moses direct giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her ?”(see also Matt 5:31; Mark 10:4) The Bible encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures makes this comment on apostasy: "This term in Greek (a·po·sta·si´a) comes from the verb a·phi´ste·mi, literally meaning “stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.” (Ac 21:21, ftn) In classical Greek the noun was used to refer to political defection, and the verb is evidently employed in this sense at Acts 5:37, concerning Judas the Galilean who “drew off” (a·pe´ste·se, form of a·phi´ste·mi) followers." "The Greek Septuagint uses the term at Genesis 14:4 with reference to such a rebellion. However, in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith. The religious leaders of Jerusalem charged Paul with such an apostasy against the Mosaic Law." So, who are the ones who have apostasized against Jehovah God ?(see Ex 6:3, KJV) At Matthew 13:24-30, Jesus illustrated who this would be, saying: "The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man (Jesus Christ, Matt 13:37) who sowed fine seed ("sons of the Kingdom", Matt 13:38b) in his field ("the world", Matt 13:38a)." "While men were sleeping (or as each of the apostles died, who acted as a restraint against apostates, see 2 Thess 2:6, 7), his enemy ("the Devil", Matt 13:39) came and oversowed weeds ("sons of the wicked one", Matt 13:38b, counterfeit Christians) in among the wheat (of true Christians) and left."( 1 John 2:18-23, whereby "the antichrists", that means "against (or instead of) Christ" came from WITHIN the Christian congregation, and eventually developed into Catholicism that eventually grew into Christendom, that is now divided up into some 41,000 different denominations and sects, see Zech 5:5-11) "When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit (or the Christian congregation was reaching maturity), then the weeds (of counterfeit Christians) also appeared.(see 1 Tim 2:18-20; Titus 3:10, 11) So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed (of true Christianity) in your field ? How, then, does it have weeds (of counterfeit Christians) ?’ " "He said to them, ‘An enemy (Satan the Devil), a man (or eventually through "the man of lawlessness", 2 Thess 2:4, the religious leaders of Christendom, with such notables as the Apostolic Fathers, the Early Church Fathers), did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them ?’ " "He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds (of counterfeit Christians who are the apostates, with false doctrines as "the Holy Trinity", hell fire, immortality of the soul, the cross, Easter, Christmas, birthdays, a clergy-laity class, veneration of "saints", transubstantiation, Mary as "the mother of God" and being "ever virgin", etc)," "you uproot the wheat (of true Christians) with them (for initially the differences between "the truth", see John 8:31, 32, and what the apostates were pushing was just in its beginning, being "small", see 2 Tim 4:3, 4). Let both grow together until the harvest (when "the truth" has been flooded over with "a refuge of lies", see Isa 28:17, that began in 1914 C.E. when Jesus was crowned king of God's Kingdom, Dan 7:13, 14; Rev 6:1, 2)," "and in the harvest season (that runs from 1914 C.E. to "the great tribulation", Matt 24:21), I will tell the reapers (the angels, Matt 13:39b): First collect the weeds (of counterfeit Christians of Christendom at the end of the harvest season) and bind them in bundles to burn them up (see Rev 17:16, 17); then gather the wheat (of true Christians, those who honor Jehovah, see Mal 3:16 - 4:3) into my storehouse (for their salvation, see Luke 21:27, 28; 2 Thess 1:7-9; Heb 9:28)."

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Where did you copy and paste this from? It barely makes sense. 😂

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

@@TheCordialCatholic protestants really need to study actual church history because one of the early Saint martyrs, Saint Ignatius of Antioch, used the word Catholic in the year 110. that was even before the Bible was compiled into the canon.

[@ContendingEarnestly]

@@femaleKCRoyalsFan Why is Ignatius' use of catholic (universal) more descriptive of the church than Luke who says early believers were called Christian? Ignatius didn't mean Roman, because the rcc didn't exist yet.

[@davidcole333]

Do the KZbin world a favor and NEVER copy/paste an essay in a COMMENT section again! Who even is going to spend time to read that?

[@timhaley3459]

@@davidcole333 It is apparent that you are NOT searching for "the truth" as also was not Pilate. First, this was NOT a "copy/paste", and second, I do as Jesus said to Pilate: "You yourself are saying that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice", to which Pilate sarcastically said to Jesus: “What is truth ?”, having no desire to learn "the truth".(John 18:37) At Matthew 7:13, 14, Jesus makes clear that the vast majority of mankind, including Catholics, are on the "broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it", whereas TRUE Christians who loves Jehovah God are striving to through the ' narrow gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and FEW are finding it.' At Luke 10:25-28, it says: "Now look ! a man versed in the Law stood up to test him (Jesus Christ) and said: “Teacher, what do I need to do to inherit everlasting life ?” He said to him: “What is written in the Law ? How do you read ?” In answer he said (quoting Deut 6:5): “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and (quoting Lev 19:18) ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” He said to him: “You answered correctly; keep doing this and you will get life (everlasting).” In contrast to everyone else that only gives a brief comment that has no scriptural value, I provided details that allows a sincere Bible reader to examine their beliefs in view of an ACCURATE Bible. Proverbs 18:2 states: "A stupid person takes no pleasure in understanding (or doing serious, unbiased research into the Bible, looking for the "truth"); He would rather disclose what is in his heart (or just give an off-the-cuff comment, being lazy)." At Matthew 7:28, 29, it contrasts Jesus teaching ability with that of the scribes: "When Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds were astounded at his way of teaching, for he was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes."(see also John 7:46, in which when officers were sent by the Pharisees to arrest Jesus, came back to them without Jesus and said: "Never has any man spoken like this") So, I will continue to follow in Jesus "footsteps" and make known "the truth" (1 Pet 2:21), providing details as Jesus did when asked by his apostles, "what is the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things" at Matthew 24:3, to which he responded with such details that his answer covers two whole chapters of Matthew, to which you would complain to Jesus that his answer was too long, but which TRUE Christians are eager to read and understand.(Matt 24 and 25)

[@zfg07]

History is written by the victors, doesn't mean they are right

[@buddyxfren8309]

It wasn’t tho

[@Hope_Boat]

Can't wait till he discovers the early Church was orthodox. Kyrie eleison ☦️

[@julieelizabeth4856]

Which one? There's no singular leadership, and those sects are ex-communicating each other.

[@Hope_Boat]

@@julieelizabeth4856 Exactly. We are not the Catholic Church. We achieve unity by the faith not by the hierarchy. Read Luke 22:24-26. The tentions between leaders are not what counts provided that they can't change the dogmas contrary to the Roman Pontiffs who contradict their predecessors. Unity id due not only through space but also through time. Post Vatican 2 Catholics do not believe the same things as Vatican 1 ones who don't believe pre-Gregorian Reformation ones (Rome was orthodox during the first millennium)

[@alhilford2345]

​@@Hope_Boat: The early Church was orthodox (small o) but not Orthodox (big O) One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

[@Hope_Boat]

@@alhilford2345 The early church was catholic witch a small c. Not Catholic©® Catholicism is the doctrine of the Gregorian Reformation (11th century). More precisely it was until the modernists too control of the Roman Church with Vatican 2.

[@caman171]

SOOO the "early church" slung incense, kissed marble altars, bowed to statues, "adored" a piece of bread and carried it around in a parade, prayed to dead people and wore expensive vestments? Me thinks NOT

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Actually…

[@paulsmallwood1484]

@@caman171 You think right!

[@giovanniserafino1731]

The early Church used incense the same way the Old Testament priests offered incense in the temple. The same way as the book of revelation describes the angel with a gold censor offering incense to God as a sign of prayers ascending to God The same way the child Jesus was given the gift of frankincense by the three kings. I guess Jesus should be condemned for praying (speaking) with Moses and Elijah on the mount of the transfiguration since they were certainly both dead! Catholics don’t adore a “piece of bread” but the very body and blood soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, who said, “ The bread I shall give is my own Flesh for the life of the World. My Flesh is real food my flood is real drink . He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I am him and I will raise them up on the last day. You protestant heretics are ridiculous.

[@caman171]

@@TheCordialCatholic Actually NOT

[@padraicbrown6718]

To paraphrase Bishop Fulton Sheen ("There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”): the Church never did the things you wrongly perceive them to have done. 1. We don't "sling incense". But we do "hold golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people." For "I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand." The only question we need to consider here is, given that in heaven and on earth the Church worships with incense, why doesn't your church? 2. We don't "bow down to statues" and worship them. That's idolatry. 3. We don't "adore a piece of bread". Again, idolatry. As Bible believing Christians, we understand what Jesus said and what he meant over the course of his teachings on the Eucharist. When God speaks, things BE. When he says "this is my body" and "my flesh is true food" and "those who do not eat my flesh have no life" we take that seriously. We adore God and he is truly and substantially present in the Eucharist. And yes, we do process with him on occasions! 4. We don't "pray to dead people". The Church is not for the dead. The Church is the home of the living. We do not distinguish between the various stages of life of the human being. For us, the human being is created at conception and from that point is immortal: our earthly bodies decay and die for a time, this is true, but that moment is but the turning point in our lives! We are the bride of Christ and the body of Christ, and are thus members unified in Christ. We strengthen one another, pray for one another, intercede for one another and mediate for one another as Christ has taught us to do. We do indeed pray to *living people*, asking them to intercede on our behalf; and some of these living people are here on Earth, whilst others are here in Heaven. 5. "Expensive vestments". Some are costly, others are not.

[@hanssvineklev648]

Doesn’t the early church have to BE Catholic before one can discover it to be so? That’s the way I’ve always thought things worked…. Oh, well.

[@alhilford2345]

Right. And the early Church was Catholic. It's a historical fact!

[@DaynaRathman]

Why is it so important to say you all are wrong and we are right, the first church. Isn’t belief in Christ and bringing others to salvation the only goal?

[@thisisit2878]

So by your logic, there's also no need to communicate the truth to Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, or Muslims, then, since they all have a "belief in Christ".

[@FleefromROME]

Catholics don't care about the gospel of Jesus Christ. Salvation to Catholics is through the sacraments. Water Baptism and Penance are "necessary for salvation."(980) "Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature" - i.e. sin.(Catechism 978) Water Baptism "delivers no one," so the Catholic minion has to confess their sins to a sinner (a priest) in the sacrament of Penance so that they can be "reconciled with God and with the Church."(980) Moreover, one cannot be "reborn" by water Baptism.(980) The "living water" is the "Holy Spirit."(John 7:37-39) If they only believed in Jesus' words, but they don't.

[@vinciblegaming6817]

@@FleefromROMEthe goal for Catholics is to live out our salvation. It’s not a single moment decision, but a daily, moment by moment choice. It doesn’t matter where I was yesterday, but where I am when I die or Jesus returns (hence the parables of the virgins and their lamps). The Catholic life is built on promises given by God to abide in Him and He will abide in us. Abiding in him includes the sacraments and the church. These help us in the race that Paul talks about in 2 Timothy 4. They are the help GOD gives us - gifts from him to help us persevere in faith. We try to share this with other Christians so that they, too, can have God’s strength for the hard race and so we might be unified in Christ as Christ desired, making us more effective witnesses to the world. John 17, Jesus ties our union with one another with the effectiveness of our witness. That should be a big deal to all Christians.

[@fantasia55]

​@@FleefromROMEEarly Christianity worship was all about the Mass, which Protestants reject.

[@Entropi_92]

​@@FleefromROMEif only you believe when Jesus said, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

[@BarbTaylor-g2k]

The popes have always preached a false gospel. Not the Gospel.

[@thisisit2878]

Always? Even Peter? Your apostasy conspiracy theory obviously starts SUPER early lol.

[@srich7503]

If “always” then please explain why ALL Bible believing people receive their rule of faith, the Bible, from her, the visible Bride of Christ… History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, - the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, - the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century and ONLY the 27 books, - not only did they not agree but their individual lists of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. Therefore, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church, guided by the Holy Spirit, that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 4th century, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved these scriptures by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself? Peace!!!

[@thomasmarchese2808]

lol Catholic means universal. Roman Catholic is what we’re talking about and no. The early church was not something that started hundreds of years later. They weren’t any denomination. It’s being over complicated. Saints are never worshiped. The Eucharist isn’t literally his blood and body. It’s a metaphor. It’s poetic and it’s foreshadowing. Roman Catholicism is a cult. As is any other denomination if you believe your denomination is infallible or that nothing contradictory can be right because it’s can’t possibly be because your denomination says it’s not right. See? That’s not how the word works. How we read the word is important. But we also must understand language and history and theology to truly understand it.

[@PrzybyszzMatplanety]

Hard cope.

[@srich7503]

If Catholicism is a cult then please explain why ALL Bible believing people receive their rule of faith, the Bible, from her, the visible Bride of Christ… History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, - the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, - the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century and ONLY the 27 books, - not only did they not agree but their individual lists of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. Therefore, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church, guided by the Holy Spirit, that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 4th century, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved these scriptures by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself?

[@billblessing6454]

Gushing with certainty: that today's Roman Catholic church is, in form and substance, identical to the catholic church of the Apostolic Age. Really?

[@TheCordialCatholic]

If not, when did it become not so?

[@thisisit2878]

Bill, please give us the Blessing of an answer.

[@julieelizabeth4856]

It's still the Catholic Church of the Apostolic age. There are over 20 other rites, not just "Roman" (Latin is actually the correct title) and all have the same teachings and are in communion with each other.

[@billblessing6454]

@@TheCordialCatholic The Roman Catholic Church, like the Universe's Creator, is not bound by concepts of time. It became so in 1869, in 325, in 787, and in all other times El Papa has spoken, reverting to Day 1. To anyone who disagrees, let him be anathema.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Wow. Yeah.

[@absolute_salvation]

Debunking Roman Catholicism: 1. Peter's confession is the rock. (not Peter) see Agustin of Hippo - "Therefore, he says, 'You are Peter; and upon this Rock which you have confessed, upon this Rock which you have acknowledged, saying, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God, will I build My Church; that is upon Myself, the Son of the living God, will I build My Church. I will build you upon Myself, not Myself upon you.' " - Augustine of Hippo Sermons on Selected Lessons of the New Testament SERMON XXVI. AGAIN ON MATT. XIV. 25: OF THE LORD WALKING ON THE WAVES OF THE SEA, AND OF PETER TOTTERING. Debunking Eucharist: 2. Jeremiah 15:16 Your words were found, and I ate them, and your words became to me a joy and the delight of my heart, for I am called by your name, O LORD, God of hosts. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. John 1:14 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. John 6:63 To eat the flesh of Christ is to believe His words. Debunking Infant Baptism 3. Belief comes before baptism see Acts 8:36-37 And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The so called household that were baptized did not indicate that there were infants. They could have had adult children.

[@DD-bx8rb]

Thanks for the Scriptural humor! BTW which Bible Alone group has the "right interpretation"? You can see the problem you have. PAX

[@thatguy2521]

@@DD-bx8rb Catholic aren’t excluded from that. You are also a denomination. The only difference is Catholics don’t even attempt to make their extra teachings biblical

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Wait. Where does it say that all Christians teachings need to come from the Bible? 🤷‍♂️

[@thatguy2521]

@@TheCordialCatholic 1 Corinthians 4:6 “Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, >Do not go beyond what is written< Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.” Paul is addressing the Corinthian church, reminding them to avoid pride and division by adhering to the teachings of Scripture rather than aligning themselves with specific leaders or doctrines that go beyond biblical instruction.

[@ColinCreighton]

​@@thatguy2521Except that Jesus didn't give us the Bible. He instead gives us His Church. It was the authority of Christ's Church which then brought us the Bible. The same universal Church that continues to hold that authority today, the Catholic Church. The same Church who Christ Himself said that hell shall never prevail against.

[@markrichards7615]

The early church wasn’t Baptist, nor was it Roman “catholic”. It is interesting that the Roman church claims to be “the true church”. The Romans?!?! Really?!?! You guys literally changed the Ten Commandments to suit your pagan sensibilities! Yeshua was neither Roman nor catholic. He was and is a Jew! This guy didn’t know much to begin with and then had a very charismatic older person indoctrinate him! He was at Oral Roberts university!! Really!! Certainly the Roman church looks better than that, but it’s still about as far away from the Judaism of Yeshua as one can get! Just because someone in the early church said something doesn’t make it correct! The first pope was the emperor Constantine and he is the one who designed the Roman church. I have a challenge for you Romans. Look up the difference between the “catholic” Ten Commandments and the Jewish Ten Commandments! What is missing from yours!

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Indeed. Look it up.

[@Spiritof76Catholic]

Nothing is missing.

[@kennethanderson8770]

The early church was actually 4 denominations that followed apostolic succession. The Eastern Orthodox, the Ethiopian orthodox, the original church in judea run by James the brother of Jesus and what in 560 ad became known as Catholicism. Then the Protestant reformation came about to bring Christianity back to its roots In reforming the church. Other denominations spread from that and the Catholic Church did move away from bad practices that happened before the reformation. All denominations of Christianity that hold to core doctrine are part of the kingdom.

[@borneandayak6725]

Nope, they all Catholic until in 4th, 11th and 16th century, when the Orthodox Church and Protestant created denominations apart from the Catholic Church. Three chief Apostolic Fathers (all three of them are disciples of the apostles) : St.Clement of Rome, St. Ignatius of Antioch and St. Polycarp, they all talking about the Catholic Church as the Church of Christ. For example St. Ignatius of Antioch in one of his letters (to Christians in Smyrna), he wrote : *“Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.”* This is the SECOND earliest known written record of the term “Catholic Church” (written around A.D. 107). The term was FIRST used in The Book of Acts 9:31, the writer use Greek words "ekklesia katholes" (Catholic Church).

[@padraicbrown6718]

If this were secular, we'd call this historical revisionism.

[@kennethanderson8770]

@@borneandayak6725 ok like I said the Catholic Church did not become an actual major church with its first pope until around 560 ad. Until then it was one of the 4 major denominations as I described earlier. My point still stands and a basic historical google search proves I’m accurate. Catholics are not the fullness of the faith scripture tells us Jesus is the fullness of our faith. the history Catholics are told about being the first and only early church are just not true. If fact the first Christian’s were all Jews called the followers of the way until Paul spread the message to gentiles according to Gods will. The Protestant reformation was to reform Christianity back to the views of the early church fathers and keep Christianity on track with Gods word. Which it did. Christianity has division because people are divisive and diverse. If everything was Catholic, Catholicism would become divided in minor doctrines. Which there is today.

[@kennethanderson8770]

@@padraicbrown6718 no it’s actual historical fact. Anyone can look it up as all historians have agreement about it. The Catholic misconception that they were the first and only church until the Protestant reformation is just not true. In Fact the first church were all Jews called followers of the way which was located in Judaea headed by James the half brother of Jesus. You may not like it but it’s true and anyone can look it up with only a little research. I’m sorry but christianity needs to unite. As long as we all hold to core doctrines there is no reason to remain divided. You can hold to whatever Christian traditions you like as long as core doctrine is in tact it should not matter we should just fulfill the great commission.

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

there were no denominations.

[@ryebread1980]

News flash,the early church did not worship Mary or go to a priest for forgiveness.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

News flash. The Catholic Church still does not worship Mary!

[@paulsmallwood1484]

A Protestant response. Just as many Protestants and Evangelicals who have studied early church history (BTW several Protestant scholars have written excellent books on the subject) have come to the opposite conclusion namely that yes the primitive church came to be called catholic however that word was not used to describe a papal system. It had nothing to do with the bishop of Rome who later claimed to be sovereign over the entire church. Roman Catholicism and catholic are not synonymous. Roman Catholicism is a particular Christian tradition or communion that is an historical development and was unknown in the first century or even the second and third for that matter. The word catholic means universal. It does not mean the Pope and his followers which no doubt has many wonderful Christians in their fold. Millions of Protestants and Evangelicals around the world recite the Nicene Creed at Divine Services each Sunday. When they do that they do not read the Papal church into the creed.

[@kentadamson6992]

I don't think that definition of Catholic is consistent with how it is used in the early church. The first time its used is with Ignatius who clearly believes in the three fold office of bishop, presbyter and deacon. Even Protestant scholars generally would not agree with that. Scholar J.N.D. Kelly states the following, "As regards `Catholic,’ its original meaning was `universal’ or `general’ … As applied to the Church, its primary significance was to underline its universality as opposed to the local character of the individual congregations. Very quickly, however, in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations. . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church” (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, 5th ed. [San Francisco: Harper, 1978]. The Catholic Church (with a capitol C) was in place very early. There is no doubt it was the councils of the early church in union with Rome that makes up the Catholic faith. This is also evident from the writings of the church fathers at the time like Cyprian and others. Reciting the creed alone does not put someone in union with the early church. Augustine, as well as church councils actually added "catholic" to the creeds because heretics were also saying the creeds. Not to mention, the papacy is on the pages of the New Testament. One does not even have to go to church history to find it.

[@paulsmallwood1484]

@@kentadamson6992 Thank you for your response dear brother. Do keep in mind that I said papal. I have no problem with the three fold office. One of the four branches of Protestantism (Anglican) has a three fold office. That is not unique to the Roman Catholic tradition dear brother. I also said that the term cathlic as a descriptor was applied to the primitive church very early so no argument here. Please find anything written by Ignatius that references the bishop of Rome or a Pope. There was no Pope in Ignatius’ day. Historic Protestantism believes and teaches two things. One: Christ has established one church and one church only namely, the Holy Catholic Church. It consists of ALL the redeemed. and two: it is not only a invisible spiritual entity (the mystical body of Christ) but it is also visible in the world and it has distinct marks which clearly identify it in the world. Where we differ is how it manifests itself visibly in the world. Protestants reject the rather sectarian notion that Christ’s visible church exists solely within the papal Institution. Protestantism believes that true believers exist in all legitimate Christian communions (subscribe to what is taught in the Athanasian creed for example) and also that one can find true local expressions (ie parishes/congregations) of Christ’s one true church in all Christian Communions. The papacy which no doubt has done much good in the world is not essential to the life of Christ’s church. It is an historical development. It was not ordained by God as essential. This is obvious given that it did not exist in the primitive church.

[@fantasia55]

​@@paulsmallwood1484You're inventing a Christian past to conform with whatever you happen to believe.

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

Yep. I'm currently the average American evangelical. A conversion to Lutheranism/Anglicanism/Reformed is honestly the next step for me.

[@kentadamson6992]

@@paulsmallwood1484 Thank you mate, and God bless you as well! I think we run into some problems if we say there was no pope in the earliest days of the church. The deeper I get into church history, the more that just does not appear to be true. I have read Ignatius's work in its entirety and It is pretty clear from his writings that he believes the Roman church hold the "presidency." Ignatius is not alone in that opinion, Irenaeus states, "because of its (Rome) superior origin, all the churches must agree." The roots of the papacy are definitely in place here. Cyprian states, “The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18-19]). . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]). The church fathers very much interpreted the New Testament as Peter was the leader of the church. His office would have successors to take his place. I respect Anglicans very much, I actually thought about becoming Anglican before becoming Catholic. The problem is that the Anglican Church was definitely not in existence at the time of Christ or the Apostles. Christianity was not really established in England until around the 6th century by St. Augustine of Canterbury. Ironically, he was chosen by Pope Gregory the Great to lead this conquest. Also, it should be noted the Anglican church of today is vastly different than the Catholicism that was brought to England by St. Augustine.

[@RobinSteward-ud5en]

That’s hilarious. Constantine didn’t bring the Roman Church onto the Jesus train until 300AD.

[@TheCordialCatholic]

Choo choo, what ever do you mean?

[@RitaGatton]

Dear RobinSteward-ud53en, Jesus founded the Catholic Church in Matthew 16:18-19. It was the same before Constantine was emperor, while he was emperor and after he was emperor. He did not change the Catholic Church. It has been the same ever from the time when Jesus founded it in Matthew 16:18-19 until now. It never changed. Jesus prayed in John 17 three times that His Church would be one. Jesus said that the way in which the world would know that the Father had sent him was because His Church would remain one. It has remained one for more than two thousand years - unchanged for that entire length of time!