A Better Interchange For The Metro Tunnel!

[@Taitset]

Special thanks to Chatswood correspondents Sharath and Amy! Check out their video on Hong Kong's MTR for more cross-platform interchange thrills: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaKtZ4ippap5sK8si=89_uE6kdf0UeLDis Like these videos and want to help support the channel? Join me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset Also thanks to my kids for the crayon hire.

[@matthewnorman9803]

I hate that vline doesn’t get enough gap and gets stuck behind the metro, he can easily be rectified. Also why is it quicker for a non express train over a express train, can you please bring this up in your next video.

[@AbsintheBabe]

@@matthewnorman9803 In peak hour there is nothing they can do, it's already scheduled as far behind a Westall as possible, then catches up to a Cranbourne before Dandenong, and finally a Pakenham train. It's in the best spot it could possibly be right now timetabling wise and PTV/DoTP knows it. It could be made to feel better by adding more stops, reducing the perceived delay waiting behind other trains, but other than that we'd just be looking at quadruplication or opening a parallel line. I don't get what you mean by non-express being faster than an express, this kind of is physically impossible in the same way overtaking isn't possible as it's only double-track. As a footnote I have experienced late-running VLines be given priority over a local Cranbourne train, such that the Cranbourne train had delays incurred.

[@matthewnorman9803]

@@AbsintheBabe the Pakenham has to be approx 25 mins ahead of the vline, the Cranbourne trains needs to be 12 minutes, the westall at 6 mins, you can easily run 2 Cranbourne trains after the pakenham train and run approx 5 pakenham and 5 Cranbourne because the frequency of the vline, also if pakenham services get bigger expresses it will be even easier. When the pakenham express skips yarraman and westall it’s 2-4 minutes slower then a train not expressing. It stops 3 extra stations which should be a 3 minutes quicker but it’s 3 minutes slower. Please explain that

[@edanalytics9336]

I went to the open day at Anzac station last weekend, and asked a senior project manager about the static signs on the station walls showing the Metro tunnel route and all stations (Anzac > *Malvern* > Caulfield > Carnegie etc.). He confirmed that yes, all Metro tunnel services would be stopping at Malvern full-time, to provide an easier interchange and alleviate congestion at Caulfield.

[@Austrocylindropuntia]

I propose we run a crowdfunding campaign to get the DTP a full set of crayons, better even than Crayola.

[@betteramulet50]

What about Derwent?

[@Austrocylindropuntia]

@@betteramulet50 at the very least!

[@Cullerin112]

Certainly, they must get their crayons asap!

[@thebats5270]

Taitset took the saying "I have neither the time nor the crayons to explain this to you" personally Great video! Thank you!

[@dominooo6658]

as someone who used to change from platform 1 to platform 4 every day, I won't miss running through the underpass when the trains are very close. nice proposition!

[@BigBlueMan118]

This transfer situation looks awful, I used to think the changes at Redfern and Dulwich Hill in Sydney were bad before they built the new overpass. This Caulfield one looks absolutely horrible. I obviously am a big fan of the prescribed solution here in this video but the much more likely outcome is they do what Sydney did and just build a hefty overbridge, potentially with escalators which would be a much better result than what you have right now!

[@xpinkwombat]

I make this transfer many times a week and it fills me with rage lol, especially when it causes me to miss my connection ;( at least the pigeons are cute

[@tabuoey]

really appreciate the pigeon at the end

[@harrisondouglas-klaassen1944]

The USB cord got me laughing and the Palm tree “thanks” sent me into fits. Appreciate your time and energy in these vids very much

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

9:03 in this hypothetical situation. Platform 4 would still be used to pick up Traralgon passengers

[@rus0004]

I was thinking it could be a dedicated v/line platform.

[@jonahroseby8432]

Like how Footscray have dedicated V-Line platforms

[@dylanshadowstar9779]

@@jonahroseby8432 true although Footscray needed it since they get alot of Vline. But this line gets one Vline per hour.

[@shraka]

That's a great idea.

[@Approvedhalalmemes]

Gotta prepare me for that Sharath jumpscare 😅 (love u sharath ❤❤).

[@tspoon772]

Dude you ruined the surprise

[@Stefan-qy4ro]

That drawing animation was brilliant. Awesome video again thanks for making my Sunday night a banger! 😊

[@namenamename390]

I love me a good cross platform interchange. I always try to build some myself in Transport Fever 2, and it's always satisfying to see two trains pull up to the same island platform at the same time to "exchange" passengers. Just lovely.

[@jordnchn7907]

taitset needs to design some train layouts for @twodollarstwenty on city skylines

[@diltonweany7003]

I think the most prominent and effective use of cross-platform-transfer is at Richmond for platforms 7-8 and 9-10. This isn't as important for Down trains as transfers towards Camberwell and Glen Waverley can be done at Burnley, but the two Up platforms allow passengers to either go directly to Flinders St or towards Parliament via the City Loop. This is why that flyover exists west of Richmond station, and I think this is a great use of Cross-Platform-Transfers. I would love to see a similar layout implemented for Sandringham and Frankston trains at Richmond once Dandenong-group trains are rerouted through the city-loop. I think this would make a future "city-loop reconfiguration project" just about perfect.

[@HardstylePete]

@@diltonweany7003 back when I had to change frequently between loop and flinders. This interchange was very good.

[@AbsintheBabe]

I'm always seeing about a quarter of down-Burnley Loop passengers change for either local trains or other down Richmond services

[@ashleighevie]

As a frequent user of those platforms, they're hugely useful in both directions. If Lilydale/Belgrave are using the loop, I can catch a direct train from Flinders Street and beat my train. The Up direction transfer is hugely valuable too though

[@lawrencechen5636]

Agreed. I would argue that you can see Richmond platforms 7-10 as a semi-four way junction, at least separately for AM/PM peaks: Platform 7 (AM) - direct to Flinders Street (Glen Waverley line) Platform 8 (AM) - City Loop services (Belgrave, Lilydale and Alamein lines) Perfect and efficient cross-platform transfer as discussed Platform 9 (PM) - from the City Loop - Belgrave and Lilydale express trains, some Glen Waverley trains Platform 10 (PM) - direct from Flinders Street - Blackburn and Alamein stopping all stations trains Allows people from Flinders Street or the City Loop to easily stay on/change trains to the required destination at Richmond. Burnley is used less as the express services don't stop there.

[@uncledaisy]

Aussie train enthusiasts are so lucky to have this channel. Thank you Taitset

[@kclassproductions]

The palm tree approves of your idea Martin! Nice video mate

[@NiklasMS]

I transfer from an up Frankston to a down Pakenham train every morning at Caufield. It does not help that my up Frankston is scheduled to arrive at XX:25 and the down Pakenham is scheduled to depart at XX:27, turning a 2 minute walk into a less than fun run to try to catch the next Pakenham train. Melbourne needs to do a lot better at considering how people might be connecting between trains.

[@logofreetv]

It must be galling to think that in the past the same transfer would've been a simple 20m walk across from p3 to p2 at most times.

[@bonkerbonk343]

the up pakenham to down pakenham has a similar issue where the up pakenham gets to the station as the down pakenham leaves needlessly adding 10 minutes of wait time

[@natalieking9246]

I see the mad dash from the Frankston platform to the Dandenong platform.

[@peterelvery]

Thanks Martin. Suddenly there's Sharath and Amy at Chatswood! Sydney's Lidcombe station has a platform 0, should you need a precedent to convince the decision makers of the worthiness of your plan😉 You didn't mention, but would clearly be aware of, the excellent cross-platform convenience at Central Station suburban platforms.

[@BigBlueMan118]

Yeah I posted in my comment that there are also the following cross-platform transfers: -At Seven Hills between Richmond T5 trains and Western T1 trains -At Town Hall between T4 Eastern Suburbs and T1 North Shore trains If we loosen the criteria slightly more: -At Central between T1/T9 Western and North Shore line services there are cross-platform transfers in both directions to the T2 Inner West and City Circle services, I first realised that from Taitsets video on the City Circle! -Regents Park this one is a bit of a cheap copout but you do have cross-platform transfer between the new T6 shuttle and the T3 to Liverpool via Sefton, or same-platform transfer to City via Inner West line T3 If all trains stop at Westmead in future once the Metro West opens, there will also be the possibility of cross-platform interchange at Westmead between western, blue mountains and richmond line trains. Cross-platform interchanges may also feature in more future Sydney Metro projects like the Liverpool extension of SW Metro, a Tallawong extension of Metro NW and Metro WSA, and a Bradfield extension of the SW Rail Link.

[@peterelvery]

@@BigBlueMan118 Phew! An exhaustive list, including the new serendipitous UP T6 to T3 at Regents Park or Berala on platform 1 and DOWN T3 to T6 at Lidcombe, platform 4 to 5. Pity about the 10 minute wait though.

[@yar1]

Plat 4 for down vline overtakes 😼

[@WhyWouldYouDrawThat]

That’s awesome. I really wanted this video. And also now feel a little dumb for only earlier thinking of the options you said would likely happen. And that is a key point. We need to get this as an official proposal. Because it just makes sense. Maybe we could: 1) Put a QR code of this video in the under pass. 2) crowd fund a study. 3) Have a design competition. 4) make it out of lego (and get it displayed somewhere in melbourne. 5) do a false press release that it is happening, and hope different parts of government accidentally gaslight each other into doing it 6) create a petition, and get lots of signatures. 7) other.

[@mathewferstl7042]

Small correction at 08:25. That small road that could be used as a diversion is now a dead end road and will eventually become a park. There's a newer road slightly to the west that you can see on newer google earth imagery. I believe it's called caufield bvd

[@Taitset]

Thankyou - I didn't realise the imagery wasn't up to date, and also didn't notice when I went there!

[@mathewferstl7042]

@@Taitset yeah it's such a small detail to miss, great video though!

[@JuiceBard]

The current layout actually works really well for my commute home. I will usually go from Malvern to Caulfield and change to get to Parliament. I even get another cross platform interchange at Parliament with the Mernda/Hurstbridge line. However, I am well aware that my commute is quite niche so I'd gladly sacrifice that convenience for a net benefit.

[@buiduc2452]

6:08 best transition I have ever seen! 😂😂 Nonetheless, I think your solution sounds really great, and I feel like the most practical solution is to have a bridge on either end of station, so that not having to touch off and on even just to get to the down line of Pakenham is much more convenient than what it's currently now.

[@michaelformaini7053]

Congratulations, Martin, on a well thought out discussion on the perennial problem of changing trains at major interchanges and I simply love the crayon and pigeon input. At Caulfield, my thoughts turn towards having wide covered footbridges at both ends of the station with lifts (a la North Melbourne), firstly at the down end, including an outside barrier bridge link on both sides across John Monash Drive (for University access) and Normanby Road (for Racecourse access), then, later, replace the existing subway at the up end with similar outside barrier across road access. This would avoid the expense of rebuilding the station and upsetting the heritage brigade (well partly anyway) and eliminate/reduce pedestrian congestion on many fronts in and around the station precinct. The existing subway is an operational nuisance, especially when freight trains cross it, eating up line capacity with the 25kmh limit and is also vulnerable to flash flooding during our increasingly crazy climate change. I get that the 'rationalisation' involved in removal of crossovers between the Dandenong and Frankston corridors was driven by the isolation of signalling systems but a single strategic link between the Up Dandenong and Down Frankston lines added to the existing revised terminating crossovers could have considerably improved the flexibility of Caulfield at minimal signalling interface cost. Maybe a 'light globe' moment for the crayon experts later without too much pigeon doo-doo!🙂😉🙂

[@gregquan5647]

Love it! Makes complete sense! And good job saving the Palm tree mate :)

[@simonrailways]

Even the pigeon subscribed to Taitset's channel, what a legend 😂

[@BigBlueMan118]

Thanks for the video Marty, as a general point of interest it is worth noting that Sydney does actually have quite a few more cross-platform interchanges than the 2 you discussed in the video: -At Seven Hills between Richmond T5 trains and Western T1 trains -At Town Hall between T4 Eastern Suburbs and T1 North Shore trains If we loosen the criteria slightly more: -At Central between T1/T9 Western and North Shore line services there are cross-platform transfers in both directions to the T2 Inner West and City Circle services, I first realised that from your video on the City Circle! -Regents Park this one is a bit of a cheap copout but you do have cross-platform transfer between the new T6 shuttle and the T3 to Liverpool via Sefton If all trains stop at Westmead in future once the Metro West opens, there will also be the possibility of cross-platform interchange at Westmead between western, blue mountains and richmond line trains. Cross-platform interchanges may also feature in more future Sydney Metro projects like the Liverpool extension of SW Metro, a Tallawong extension of Metro NW and Metro WSA, and a Bradfield extension of the SW Rail Link.

[@jamesdisnow]

Taitset has been keeping his extensive experience as a motion graphic animator a secret!

[@drworm5007]

Dude probably even has a pen licence and isn't telling us.

[@jamesdisnow]

@drworm5007 I demand an royal commission!

[@tekkies-transport]

Great Video! The cross-platform layout at Burnley does allow for passengers to easily change between services which stop at East Richmond, and express services. So, the layout there is actually pretty useful...

[@AbsintheBabe]

Off-peak and on weekends there's actually a timetabled transfer between ex-Camberwell trains and Glen Waverley trains, to give the former easy access to East Richmond. Same same but opposite for East Richmond to have easy access back out to Camberwell and beyond. Trains don't wait for each other though, so a late running of either can mess it up

[@YeezyKid]

MUM TAITSET UPLOADED, I CAN’T GO TO SCHOOL

[@Taitset]

Sorry, it was very cruel of me to make it live at 9am on a weekday! :)

[@tsguy-h3q]

I think it might be worth considering filling in platform 3 with a wider platform to handle increased crowds, or fill in platform 4 so down Dandyleon trains open doors on both sides. Aside from that, there isn't much I would change from what you have proposed.

[@rus0004]

Thanks Martin. Here I was redesigning Spencer Street for my own headcanon, now you've presented me with another conundrum that needs deciphering.

[@notrocketscience1950]

love your videos, i pass through caulfied station regularly and appreciate your suggestions

[@gregmichael8473]

Just an update on the road layout on the south side of Caulfield. There's now a large commercial/residential development on what was shown as open space in the video at 8:16 which has altered the road layout slightly, but I think your point about closing Normanby Rd is still valid. One issue with re-installing crossovers between the two lines is the CBTC signalling which would need to take that into account. On the subject of Platform 0, there are also a few in Japan.

[@paulschimmel1099]

Great idea for a switching shunting layout! Thanks for another awesome video👏👏👍

[@zoqaeski]

They could have done this right originally by putting the dive for the metro tunnel one track across so that it would run onto the centre pair of tracks, resignalling those as Fast-Slow-Slow-Fast. Then the metro tunnel services would have stopped all stations using the centre island platforms, and a flyover on the down side of Caulfield would have elevated the line onto the LXRA viaduct. A few crossovers would have allowed trains to switch between Fast and Slow tracks. But, as you said in the video: that's just not how we do things here 🙃

[@McFearsome2]

Caulfield P4 could do what Essendon P1 does. V/Line, passing, and the occasional Steamrail shuttle reversing direction.

[@phillip1604]

7:02 Lidcombe Station has a Platform 0 for Olympic Park shuttle (built in 2000 for the Olympics, after the original station whenever it was constructed)😁

[@GeorgeBridges-y9u]

I'm loving all of your content man!

[@dom-fell]

Appreciate you plugging in your drawing so we could see it more clearly on the screen

[@thomasgiles2963]

great video as always mate, idk why but the things you talk about and how you talk about them is just interesting; the video ends before i know it.

[@thegreenportals]

Such a great video, always hyped for your releases

[@chrisgordon1414]

Doing the interchange over two stations, Caulfield and Malvern you could achieve cross platform interchange between Up City Loop/Metro Tunnel at say Caulfield, and Down Frankston/Pakenham & Cranbourne at Malvern. Then you are only up for flipping the Up/Down lines and not rebuilding stations (the expensive part). The other consideration on your suggestion, if you were to do away with platform 4 at Caulfield, then I would be straightening platform 3 at the up end so all platforms are straight and without curves.

[@oliverlamb8892]

That would be pretty darn confusing for most passengers.

[@sharkattack6610]

Another possible solution at both Caulfield and Footscray - elevate the lines in one direction to have the platforms on top of each other. Have both citybound lines on the lower platform and both outbound lines on the upper platform. This could also allow a passing point for country services and freight trains.

[@the_train_man]

That is absurdly brilliant, one can hope! Great video mate

[@pierreinthavong181]

Nice video preview, Martin!😁

[@hansklaus6860]

man, I absolutely love learning about trains on the other side of the world!

[@Cmoose]

As a Malvern station local, I believe it’s best for people to change at Malvern, they can move the ticket barriers there. At Caulfield you can’t because of the customer service office. Trains should stop at Malvern full time as people use it to get many tram connections, E.G, I commonly find myself in Glenferrie road needing to get to the 72 but don’t want to go to Malvern road (commercial road) so I train to toorak. Additionally Malvern is perfect for a footbridge at the other end.

[@EmmaLiza]

I always enjoy this channel when it shows up in my recommendations, but it is something special to see a Public Transport KZbin video that relates to my specific Public Transport Bugbear, which is living in Carnegie but working down the Frankston line, and inevitably *just* missing the changeover from the Up Frankston line to the Down Dandenong lines because of the 2-3 minutes it takes to walk from platform 1 to platform 4, at which point it's like "well, it's not worth waiting another ten minutes for the next train, guess i'll just walk."

[@dermottstevens3079]

Loved all the MTR cross transfers, I was there visiting family last month and I forgot how good it feels to complete a cross platform transfer as the doors are closing and the cheerful Cantonese door closing announcement is playing.

[@uDidWatt]

Since you asked. My suggestions would all involve using giant cannons and trampolines. So I think you're on the right track. I subscribed for Broadmeadows Runaway pt 3

[@thestargateking]

i like how the layout is rather similar to what we ended up doing at petrie up here in Brisbane with the kippa ring line, although we had a lot more space to play with, we ended up with a spare platform like you did, but we had the lines split between to caboolture to kippa ring on one island, and from caboolture then from kippa ring, then this layout allowing cross platform transfers in peak and once frequencies increase off peak cross platform transfers then. we've also got a similar case of last transfer being the tunnel being rather bad with eagle junction and northgate not being well equiped to handle large volumes quickly, currently the plan is to include Albion into the CRR route, kinda like including malvern. Albion doesnt really have much options to do cross platform as one side is in a deep cutting with roads going over, and the other side you have the CRR tracks splitting off quickly as well as other roads bridges and river crossings and eventually a depot. so for the upgrade there we've chosen to have two accessible footbridges, one is going to be a main concourse so much higher throughput and the other will be a bit smaller but still useable. we are able to pull this off cause the Albion station upgrade is going to be included in a long awaited TOD project which has taken its time to get off the ground, but seems to actually be starting now so fingers crossed

[@JDTrain]

This video has made me realize I have very few cross platform transfers on my fantasy train network in Trainz 2. But I don't have any double junctions either.

[@owenmcdonald8342]

I'd like to mention two other Sydney stations that kinda meet the criteria Epping - Is on the T9 and the Newcastle and Central Coast Intercity line but is also serviced by the Sydney Metro M1 via an underground station. So, it's a direct transfer via one escalator or lift Wolli Creek - The T4 passes through on a north-south alignment and the T8 passes on an East-West alignment at an underground station. Similar situation - direct transfer via one escalator or lift

[@carisi2k11]

2 lifts in both cases. 2 escalators at Epping. 2 sets of stairs at Wolli Creek.

[@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042]

You can change between northbound north shore trains, and the city circle clockwise direction at central 16 & 17. The southbound direction can be done at both central platform 18 & 19 and town hall platform 1 & 2. Town hall 5 & 6 allows an interchange between northbound trains on the city circle and the eastern suburbs railway. This also means that you can change from an northbound north shore train to a Bondi junction train by first changing to the outer circle at central (16 to 17) and then from platform 6 to 5 at town hall. Might not be as fast as a direct change because you have to wait for two trains, but saves walking.

[@ComengProductions]

6:08 Wasn't expecting that but at the same time I was.

[@michaelpowell6023]

great thoughts/ planning. If only someone in a position to listen. Just half way through long delayed night shifts on maint works on Metro, cant be more specific. But after a week, when not even open yet...

[@bennichols5708]

A relatively simple solution in the short term, could be to install another crossover allowing Frankston services towards their city to stop at platform 2. This will allow a cross platform change for metro tunnel services to the city. It should impact fewer people than the current setup, however, it is not a great permanent solution. Wider exits and entrances, and alot moreover shelter areas desperately needed.

[@AbsintheBabe]

They should still do this for disruptions to either line, when people may be able to change to the other line in lieu of a replacement bus between Caulfield and the city. iirc the crossovers already in place allow this

[@GrimHQ0]

I have thought about this for around two years now. Improvements to the design: Have the Frankston line run on Platform 0 and 3 instead of 1&2, this removes the need for a long bridge on both sides of the station, just a small one for the Frankston Down and Dandenong group to cross. On the west end of the station, at the Metro Tunnel entrance, just shift it over a few metres so that the Caulfield Through Down and Caulfield Local Up go into the tunnel. Eventually, if Malvern-Hawksburn are de-heritage-listed, then the Dandenong group track could be completely straight from Caufield to the Metro Tunnel (bar that one kink near Toorak), allowing for much higher speeds.

[@ilyapetoushkoff8362]

2:20 people change en masse at Richmond station's platforms 7&8, between Flinders St direct and City Loop trains, although this works only on weekday mornings.

[@hamleyn]

Unless there is a long wait to the next train, in which case you need to go to platforms 1 or 3.

[@mallenwho]

The move they did in 2023 to remove the crossovers was called Caulfield Rationalisation (pt 1). Ostensibly, whether this is a reasonable reason or not, they were removed to improve curve radius (and speed) through the station approaches, and to air gap the new CBTC system from the legacy signalling so there was no way a future driverless train could find itself in conventional signalling land. I am also aware that deep in the depths of the DoT there are various future unfunded Caulfield rationalisations stages, including what you have shown. Kinda like sunshine with the MAR project, the ultimate configuration would be cross platform interchanges, additional platforms for future quaduplication, and an enhanced pedestrian amenity connecting Monash Caulfield all the way to the race course and eliminating road crossings for pedestrians. Whether any of those ever see the light of day is another matter entirely. This is to say, this solution is so reasonable it is a real plan. There is just no interest in making this plan. Maybe it was one of the early casualties of MMT scope cutbacks?

[@ElijahWinn-bn4sq]

10:20 "Doesn't even own as many crayons" They may need to step up their game a bit.

[@JuliansTrainsandGames]

6:27 Rip Bairnsdale N sets. Very nice to add that easter egg in.

[@paulstubbs7678]

I used to catch the Frankston line 5 days a week for work, back then it alternated, one loop train, one direct to Flinders, it was fairly easy to just arrive a bit earlier if you wanted the other option. Now I think it sucks, none go through the loop. And by your diagrams, in the future all will be loop trains even if you don't want it. I would much prefer if they went back to an alternating system, just re-instate those track cross-overs and every second train could use the alternate, is one Frankston to the loop, the the next through the new metro tunnel, alternating with Dandenong trains doing likewise, so hence much less need for train swapping/interchange, short of going from Frankston to a station out Dandenong way.

[@27merlinsFH]

There could be some merit to offering one cross platform interchange in the peak direction, and switching halfway through the day. You'd just need the frankston line to take right hand running in the mornings and the dandenong line right hand in the evening.

[@BatteryCoverMissing]

This is a very logical solution

[@bradwconnors]

Love this video. My feeling is that the station may end up demolished and rebuilt (and perhaps a road or two maybe closed) as I could see them trying to integrate the station with the Monash Uni campus but I love your thought process. While some may not like the idea of demolition, if a master plan was put together that allowed a more seamless integration with the Route 3 tram and buses it would be a real win for the community

[@spyjosh]

The thing is with Caulfield, it did cost me more money when I was younger to change. When I didn't really have an allowance or a job, if I needed to change trains at Caulfield, my myki would occasionally drop into the negative, meaning I would have to technically spend more to be able to continue my journey, even though it's still only the one. Sure this money wouldn't necessarily then get deducted from Myki, and I'd be ready for my next trip, but since I didn't know when I would next have $5, and that the inspectors would often actively target high school kids, it definitely felt like a loss.

[@Taitset]

That's a reasonable point. It's not actually increasing the cost, but in that scenario it does bring the payment forward.

[@spyjosh]

@@Taitset Yeah I know overall not changing the price, but definitely frustrating, esp back when topping up on your phone meant using web browser which took over 24 hours to process

[@danielaguiar7756]

I watching this having just interchanged at Caulfield. Keen to hear your thoughts and ideas cos I have MANY!!!

[@davidj4626]

Great video. There is a niche cross platform transfer at Footscray - which I have done - at the city end of the platforms from an up Werribee train to a down V/Line train it’s straight across the platform (and even further along it’s just through the station building).

[@ivanb52]

Singapore MRT designed this from the beginning in the 80's, with the first 2 lines having 2 interchange stations at Raffles Place and City Hall, so they had cross platform connections for all possible direction options. The tunnels between them cross over to make it possible. This should have been an integral part of the Metro design. Disappointed it was overlooked.

[@ab-ky2rj]

Great Video - In 2009 the platform 7 to 8 interchange in Richmond was great if you wanted to go to Flinders street or the city loop. Most of the other transfers in Melbourne are very sad indeed. ( Even the tram/train interchange at Gardener< build after 2009 -, such a sad affair- spending so much money and ending up with such a crappy interchange )

[@malicemich]

I wondered about placing 3 and 4 above 1 and 2 replicating the common railway crossing project stations. While this wouldn't be as easy as cross platform it would allow for easy transfer between the lines onwards and outwards.

[@axan50transportproductions]

Singapore MRT is the goat of cross-platform transfers. City Hall and Raffles Place

[@DimensionalIO]

Hopefully the Metro Tunnel will cause the creation of more good interchanges, not just on the Metro Tunnel lines, but on the whole network.

[@andyrails9742]

I liked your inclusion of the walk from the frankstone line platform to the dandenong line platforms. You can add another minute or more to that exercise if you are travelling with a bicycle. Which one might need, because in order to complete your journey, because there are no public transport options at the time of day one needs to travel, for the last 4 kilometers of your journey. The bottleneck at the myki gates to platforms 2 and 3 is a nightmare to negotiate with a bicycle. Even if you aren't jumping lines from frankstone. Just entering the station at Caulfield for the inbound city loop line with a bike is challenging enough. The wave of pedestrian bodies pushing past you, in a race to get their train, soon bring you a stand still. Then, when you eventusly reach the gates, you face the wrath of angry pedestrians, because you need to block all up and down foot traffic while turn your bike perpendicular to the ramp so as to push it through the one and only gate that can accommodate a bike.

[@kentw8396]

Nice cameo from the De La boys!

[@msg5507]

This is s great video Martin, but the works to build a flyover would still require rebuilding the station to disability access standards, so the cost would be very high. I think an accessible pedestrian bridge will have to be built eventually, and I would like it at the city end, connecting to the tram stop on the north side and a pedestrian precinct for the racetrack and apartment developments on the south.

[@Phantomthecat]

I was just discussing this the other day - IMO they completely missed what needed to happen at both Footscray and Caufield. I live in Sunbury, so there will be times I need to change lines now, but the new tunnel will actually put me closer to where I need to go most of the time anyway so I'm not overly bothered myself but they definitely did cock this up.

[@AbsintheBabe]

The down end flyover might be difficult grades-wise especially with consideration for the daily freight trains, but it certainly would be made easier if the road beneath was closed and the Frankston Line dove immediately after the platforms. All in all I'm very in favour of this idea, especially the reinstated crossovers

[@Low760]

Except the road is the only quick access for people on the other side

[@AbsintheBabe]

@@Low760 There are alternative crossings available at Grange Road and the new Caulfield Blvd for vehicular traffic if that's what you mean. If you mean pedestrian-wise I'd include/retain a pedestrian underpass here, which require much much less vertical space than a vehicular underpass.

[@wallymcwalrus]

I can't tell you how many times I've wished for a bridge connecting platforms 1 and 4 during my daily inter-train sprint.

[@acoyles]

10:45 - right at the end hearing Pakenham instead of East Pakenham and stopping all expect Narre brings me back to early 2024 days lol

[@Taitset]

Yes that bit of audio was from earlier in the year!

[@Johntrampoline]

This is a very interesting video idea. A possibly cleaner solution would be to have the Dandenong lines run into platforms 2 and 3 and the Frankston line into 1 and 4.(Frankston line has more room to fit a flyover and crossover at the down end) You then build two interchange island platforms in the space between the tracks and link all the platforms together with a bridge. This would seperate passengers who are interchanging and passengers who are getting on or off which would increase passenger flow and capacity. This is assuming drivers can open both doors at the same time. I would also reinstate the crossovers between lines.

[@bigdude101ohyeah]

The removal of those crossovers is honestly one of the most short sighted projects done in recent years. With that being said, I still think the tunnel should've started at Caulfield.

[@logofreetv]

I used to use the Frankston line for years and I was astonished they did that - who pays money to make something significantly less useful?

[@GL-xz3xk]

@@logofreetvlatter day Politicians and public servants. Especially here in Aus

[@BigBlueMan118]

What would have been the benefit of starting the tunnel at Caulfield, higher speeds mainly or would you have added another station somewhere along it?

[@Kevin-go2dw]

Same people that could see saving cost on the Bendigo line by reducing it from double track to single.

[@nickhiscock8948]

Originally the metro tunnel was to start at Caulfield and turn west with stations at hawthorn road, balaclava, st kilda Junction, commercial road, domain and Flinders Street etc but this was descoped around 2015.

[@Jules_Diplopia]

It would of course depend on how much, and which parts of the existing station that you wanted to keep. But my instant response would be to remove the central platforms 2 & 3. Put a new pair of tracks where they are. Build new platforms over the existing inner tracks. That would retain the overall footprint of the station. Platforms 1 and 4 would be unaltered and you would have 2 new island platforms 2 and 3.

[@anoniaino]

After having a look I’ve concluded that it might be better to run the Dandenong lines on platforms 1 and 3, have the Farnkston line towards the city go on the new platform 0 and then use all the space on The branch to Frankston to get the other direction up and over into platform 2. A south entrance would also have to be sorted in your plan. Either realign the road or put an entramce to the subway on the other side of it. Another option would be go put one set of lines under platforms 2+3 in a tunnel, which wouldn’t be cross platform, but just straight down a level. 1 and 4 could then be for VLine

[@DiscoveryRoad]

Hong Kong does better in interchange, but with the crazy expansion, they aren't really effective nowadays. Take Admiralty as an example. There's only one group of escalators to take you from the expanded part to the original part. However, MTR did something similar for Tung Chung Line at Lai King Station. It's actually possible, but with some mind-blowing cost. I think they should do that, after all Metro's majority stakeholder is MTR.

[@spartan117zm]

You could potentially keep platform 4 as a terminating platform as well, which would be useful to maybe start a train there in the morning and/or avoid blocking a through service. Wouldn’t be ideal for the connection but would at least keep train capacity if it’s needed.

[@flickrscreen]

You're right: it's not the way we do things around here *sigh*

[@ashleighevie]

I think the government might claim it to be too expensive, but in the 1950s(?) they added flying junctions to Burnley and Camberwell, so it seems like a weak excuse. Proper cross platform interchange would clearly be desirable, but maybe a new concourse North Melbourne-style would actually be built.

[@Cmoose]

A simpler change could be right hand running for the Frankston line

[@msg5507]

That helps in the morning peak but not the afternoon.

[@ThisIsDavin]

gonna go out on a limb here and say DOT are expecting Franga folk to use SRL and board at Clayton with no intention of providing a service as simple and easy of that which you have presented here.

[@mathewferstl7042]

The city loop technically has cross platform interchanges as well

[@qfa330]

Bayswater in Perth was redsigned as an interchange for Midland, Airport and Ellenbrook will be interesting to see how it works when the Ellenbrook line opens

[@TransportofPerth]

Ellenbrook Line is in the middle and the Airport and Midland are on the outside. In this case it's the opposite situation as we do have the up and down lines running on the same platform at Bayswater but we would want it to be the other way to allow for cross-platform interchanges between outbound and inbound services on the lines but that would just be too complicated. Anyway, the walk is way less than what this video's station has.

[@GL-xz3xk]

Interesting take, I wondered how Caulfield would work ever since I saw South Yarra wouldn’t be an interchange

[@iainhughes4630]

Im thinking even more ambitious- Would it be possible or make sense to make accessibility improvements to Malvern and turn that into an (additional) interchange? Dandenong and Frankston express trains would need all services to stop there full time. Even the change announcement could be played there instead to reduce number of passengers using Caulfield. No track layouts would need to change as passengers can use the footbridge which seems superior to Caulfields underpass nor requires touch on/off when doing the change. And there may be more room to add extra interchanges (like an extra footbridge). Note I haven’t used Malvern station so Im not necessarily correct.

[@aquacactuscheeseburger]

When the city loop reconfig ends up on the cards, I reckon they will build cross platform interchanges at north Melbourne in a similar style to that proposed: tacking a new platform face on a side platform (6). Even comes with a prebuilt overpass for craigieburn! Cant get cheaper than that

[@blue.square]

There's a third place with cross-platform transfers in Sydney, at Central. (some of) the suburban platforms are arranged in a way that makes it easy for passengers to transfer from the T1/T9 to the T2/T3/T8 (via Sydenham, not via the Airport line). This means that passengers coming from the western and northern suburbs can easily get to the eastern side of the CBD, and people from the south west can also easily transfer for trains towards the north shore.

[@guy9732]

Here's my plan: - No change for platforms 3 & 4, keep them as they are. - Frankston up line will change course & now use platform 2. - Frankston down line (plan #1) is where the major changes take place. Frankston down line will become platform 1 but it will be a sky rail platform which allows it to conveniently cross over the Frankston up line tracks. As it will be a sky rail platform it can be utilised to accommodate new foot bridges going across lines 2, 3 & 4. - Frankston down line (plan #2) instead of doing a sky rail, you can make it a tunnel which would make it easy to join up with Glen Huntly Stn because it's already down low in a trench.

[@guy9732]

EDIT: If (plan #2) above was used, the Frankston down line tunnel could start after South Yarra Stn & run underground all the way to Glen Huntly Stn. Doing that would free up the Frankston up line all the way from Caulfield Stn to South Yarra St which means that the Dandy up line & the Frankston up line can run parallel using platforms 2 & 3 all the way from Caulfield Stn to South Yarra Stn. In addition, using a tunnel for Frankston down line would leave a free section of line to play with above ground on platform 1 all the way from Caulfield Stn to Hawksburn Stn.

[@anthonydaniele7851]

I wouldn’t bother with the second flyover until much closer to the city so the subsequent stations only use the middle island and get refurbished. A flyover around Chapel St would be difficult, but should be seen as an opportunity to put an interchange station there.

[@jossdeiboss]

I would just flip platform 2 with platform 3. Look at the picture at 8:02 - the drawn red line would go to platform 2 instead of 0. The line that currently goes to platform 2 would go to platform 3. You would use the same flyovers as in your proposal but you don't need to add a new platform. Potentially, you don't need to modify anything of the station itself.

[@RalphFord-ri2so]

i go to caulfield everyday for school on the pakenham line, im just wondering will we ever get malvern on our line towards the city in the morning, or will that never happen, and when i go to the footy/afl will i have to change trains at caulfield from the cranbourne pakenham line to end up at richmond or not. -Thanks Taitset luv ya choo choo

[@Taitset]

From what I've heard (since recording this), Malvern will be included as a stop for all Cranbourne/Pakenham trains after the tunnel opens - which is hopefully true. Yep, you'll have to change trains at Caulfield to get to Richmond (the alternative would be walking from Town Hall). It would be nice if they could run some footy specials from Cran/Pak into Flinders St via Richmond, but I don't think they will.

[@RalphFord-ri2so]

@@Taitset great thanks

[@B.pangus]

This would be amazing, the amount of times I have needed to sprint from the Frankston line to the Dandenong line so I could get the city loop😪 I Started to just change in Richmond because chances of missing the train, outweighed the benefit of the express.

[@theozziepotato]

building beautifully jumpscare