A Brief History of Competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! (Part 1, 2002-2012) | Heart of the Cast #19

[@ThetrueKidGoku]

Call me crazy but it feels like Cimoooooooo would've been the perfect guest for this discussion. The guys has only done like 20 history of Yu-Gi-Oh series.

[@FrozunLightning]

The three guests I would love to see you guys talk to for any sort of history topics would be MegaCapitalG, TheDuelLogs, and SwagKage. They've been playing forever and we don't often get to see them crossover with the normal group of yugioh content creators. But they are all very knowledgeable and insightful, and can also be goofy too so they could be fun podcast guests.

[@oyasumi9424]

Baroque joke going over farfa's head lmao

[@s4ds4d]

The disappointment in Josh's eyes 😂

[@helixier6629]

what's the timestamp?

[@minabasejderha5972]

​@@helixier6629 4:53

[@Wanderer-th4tt]

I don't get it either, help 😭

[@thedarklight247]

​@@Wanderer-th4tt baroque is an art style, also a play on rock for adamancipator

[@yugiMOWS]

It's difficult it's frustrating but it's fun was farfa describing yugioh or elden ring

[@miah8163]

I think you missed a few quotation marks

[@Ragnarok540]

Both. Yu-Gi-Oh is the dark souls of card games.

[@yugiMOWS]

@@miah8163 yeah cba edit it now

[@victortineo9278]

Yes

[@joseruizdiaz9622]

Swagkage is taking so long that even Heart of the Cast releases their own version of the history of yugioh. Jokes aside I don't blame him; his movie is obviously peak quality so it takes time, he has a life to live, and sadly his PC got stolen.

[@FrozunLightning]

Oh I thought of a good guest for a different topic. Nova Aokami is a vtuber who plays yugioh and other card games. She has a very fun and dynamic personality. I think she would be a fun guest to talk to and get the perspective from her on yugioh vs other card games like Digimon or Cardfight Vanguard. Could also be interesting to see her talk about being into yugioh as a vtuber maybe there's differences in mentality for how she streams vs you guys. And also maybe you guys could ask her about the perspective of being into the game as a woman and what could be done to maybe get more into the game?

[@ygofrom0]

Yu-Gi-Oh! From 2002-2005 definitely isn't for everyone, but there are some very interesting and fun formats within that period that are more than just vanilla monster turbo or completely broken power cards. In 2002, Critter Format is one of the best grindy control oriented formats in the game's history. In 2003, Yata format features a lot of powerful and iconic cards but is also surprisingly balanced and fun. In 2005, Warrior format is a great twist on Goat format that has some subtle but very impactful changes. Those in my opinion are the cream of the crop from that era, but there are plenty of interesting formats beyond that as well that people have really enjoyed re-exploring. I highly recommend anyone out there interested in classic Yu-Gi-Oh to try out these formats, you may be pleasantly surprised at what you find

[@SnackMuay]

If you wanna try out any format from 2002-2006, you should check out this man’s channel ^

[@Stardust_262]

My single favorite Yugioh format is Perfect Circle (Sept 2007 list). It’s diverse, low-powered, has the fewest broken power cards (just don’t play with prize cards please), and is tons of fun. I implore anyone who wants to try a different retro format to give it a shot.

[@ducky36F]

Underrated format

[@GodKiller97]

The true GOAT format

[@Cybertech134]

I miss that format a lot. I abused the hell out of Disk Commander back then.

[@lordofthered1257]

I have always said that perfect circle is the goat of the GX era. It was the last format before yugioh underwent its transportation into what we know today.

[@NJoCaulfield]

Love Slay the Spire. Highly recommend it; scratches the same itch the older single player YGO games.

[@ducky36F]

58:00 this is the thing modern players seem to miss about time wizard. Cooking and deck building is half the fun. Any format where you copy and paste the same 40 cards ain’t it

[@lit_wick]

Yugioh should become more proxy friendly. I can see a future where time wizard tournaments happen all the time and people print/buy legit looking proxy decks for every popular format. People go to magic locals with many decks, it'd be nice if it became more popular in yugioh. Imagine if locals had a "free play" day where people sat and played against others in whatever format they were feeling. Seems like a good time.

[@Clayvillain17]

The ability to rent a deck list for an event seems like it could be a way to make it more accessible for players who either can’t or don’t want to afford expensive ass $1k+ decks. It’s like sure you could just borrow the most op thing in the room but if you don’t know how to play it very well from not owning it for play testing, then you aren’t getting the true advantage of playing the best thing in the room

[@randommaster06]

I like Farfa's idea of rebooting the game. You'd start with a small number of cards, then build it back up over time. You could even repeat the process after a couple years, keeping a different pool of cards. so the card pool doesn't get too crazy, but feels fresh. It's like the format would refresh, or renew, or spin, or turn around. I'm surprised nobody's ever done anything like that before.

[@immortaljd9991]

Currently in the process of building every deck from 2012-2017 and I loved hearing you both talk about some of these decks while I was working on them. I can’t wait for part 2.

[@alexsox]

Regarding Goyo Guardian, the OCG had never unbanned it and they were terrified of it---despite being unlimited in the TCG. And rather than have generic goyo in tcg and earth goyo in ocg, we were forced to adopt the errata too.

[@MrBiff123]

Chaos empires dragon and even BLS are two of the most WTF power jump card moments ever

[@benjaminvega7186]

You know, modern yugioh has gotten so fast that it's looped back around to old yugioh. Either a player over extends and is punished, or the grind game snowballs out of control in favor of one player

[@jordaneworley]

@14:15. Isn’t Rush duels a reboot with hindsight(ex:all cards soft once per turn, no searching from deck, drawing to 5 each turn, none of this search card>extra deck card>main deck combo>extra deck boss combo stuff that annoys a lot of people, and lots more I can’t think off the top of my head involving spells and traps too. They done dozens of changes to make it more balanced “old stuff”. They still only have fusions and maximums. No XYZ/synchro/link/pend. And have a very small forbidden/limited list because of the smart changes made to the base game and cards released.

[@bubblebubble1058]

Rush duels is fun but its not really a reboot because it has way different rules and me, like many others, aren't in the market for a new card game. But I would be in the market for a new format to a game I already enjoy and know the rules for. A new rebooted format that's carefully designed with power-creep and healthy design philosophy from the off sounds pretty good.

[@NightyKnight09]

4:56 adamancipator being golden age having the hidden pun of being a deck about mining is the highlight of this podcast

[@Apocralyph]

This was an enjoyable episode all things considered, but it really could've done with a bit more structure and research. Naturally that will be less of an issue next time, but it's always dicey having to rely on corrections from chat, you never know who's yapping and who actually knows what they're talking about.

[@moar1716]

I got so nostalgic listening to your podcast. I started playing Yugioh in 2005 and visited my first locals shortly after the Edison format. I am just so happy that we have those TW Tournaments so I can play those very old decks again, which I played during my childhood and teenage years. It is just a little disappointing that you did not invite any guests for this episode. Someone like Lithium would have been perfect since he knows quite a lot about old-school Yugioh. This is mainly because Farfa is not experienced with the older formats of Yugioh (pre-2013), and having a second person backing up Josh would have been great to get some deeper discussions. Nonetheless, I really enjoyed this podcast!

[@esrohm6460]

you know what would be hype. restart yugioh from set 1 but legacy support gets released together with the first release of the cards. maybe not all legacy support but there are for certain cards that could be released way before they did and suddenly a dec that was unplable during its time and got support way to late could become tiered

[@TURBO1000YuGiOh]

19:25 Tribute Set... I never heard of doing that to dodge Trap Hole before. BIG BRAIN🧠

[@MembelDembel]

you've never seen it because it doesn't work. trap hole hits flip summons. he's just yapping

[@mohammedrefaat5506]

@@MembelDembel but if you tribute set and let your opponent interact with it (like attacking it) it will dodge it

[@Orion1205]

Not even a single mention of Blackwings is crazy. Unless I missed it.

[@BerryBoi69]

Bringing on champs from the era of yugioh the episode covers would be awesome.

[@drew5121]

I think post apocalyptic is a better name for where we are now

[@UTgohan]

Josh I love perfect circle, only you can bring it into the light and make it a top tier retro format 💯

[@User-bx6uu]

They did reboot the game its called Rush Duels

[@bubblebubble1058]

Same brand, different game. Its fun but I think most tcg players aren't in the market for a new game the way the might be fore a new (old) format.

[@User-bx6uu]

@@bubblebubble1058 ラッシュ！ラッシュ！ＧＯゴー！ラッシュ！ サイコーのラッシュ！ いくぞボクのターン！からのキミのターン！ 邪魔したってほらまだまだ 切り開くぜ Ｇｉｖｅギブ ｉｔイット ｔｏトゥ ｍｅミー！ 誰のためのターン？って言えばボクらのターン！ あぁなんだかんだ言っても サイコーのデュエル！ ゆえにダッシュなラッシュが止まらない 超速的エブリデイ だってキュークツな理屈じゃつまらない 変速で未曾有のゲーム つまり Ｗａｔｃｈウォッチ ｏｕｔアウト！捉われないで きみも Ｗａｔｃｈウォッチ ｏｕｔアウト！縛られないで だから ドロー！ドロー！ドロー！カモン！ 楽しむだけ ＂僕のロードだ！＂ Ｙｅａｈｈｈｈｈｈｈイェーーーーーーー！！！まだ全然足りない 新しいルールで時代を作ってゆけ！！！！！！！ こんなんじゃ終わらない そう 笑って泣いて 反撃喰らって 一発逆転ベイベー ランランランランランランランラン ラッシュ！ＧＯゴー！ラッシュ！（ラッシュデュエル！） ランランランランランランランラン ラッシュ！ＧＯゴー！ラッシュ！（ラッシュデュエル！） 進め！！！！！！！僕たちのロード あぁ ナナ転んでもナナ起き 型破ったマイロード ナナナナナナナ・・・ラッシュ！ＧＯゴー！ラッシュ！ ラッシュ！ラッシュ！ＧＯゴー！ラッシュ！ ナナナナナナナ・・・ラッシュ！ＧＯゴー！ラッシュ！ ラッシュ！ラッシュ！ＧＯゴー！ラッシュ！ ラッシュ！ラッシュ！ＧＯゴー！ラッシュ！

[@ReligionsFakten]

Perfect circle is clearly the best retro format :)

[@Cr4nched]

I started playing the LoR solo mode after Josh brought it up and now I'm obsessed

[@nickmasucci8381]

There should be a counter for every time farfa completely repeats what Josh just said lol.

[@ducky36F]

1:30:32 I was one of the people that liked Dino-rabbit/Wind up format too, but I loved playing Chaos dragons back then. My favourite deck of all time still.

[@telepathicdragon]

As much as I like them, i feel there were a lot of inaccuracies with this episode and they really should've brought in an older player who actually played back then and understood some of the intricacies of the formats as well as the actual history of what happened back then. They straight up got some timelines wrong and the chat even called them out on it sometimes. For example Glads was heavily glossed over until it got its key support pieces which were gyzarus, test tiger and chariot. Heraklinos and the other GB cards were very affordable but only jumped up after then only cause GLAS secrets were notoriously hard to get due to the large spread of the SCR pool of that set. It only became affordable when they released the card as a super in the Duelist Genesis Special edition the following year.

[@camrensharpe]

Abyss rising sept 2012 list is my favorite format.

[@jordaneworley]

Hype for part 2

[@Lewt_2B]

about infernity in 2011: when trishula came out in the TCG, it was already at 1 due to the share banlist and hidden arsenal releasing way earlier in the OCG. had trish been at 3, i think lv 9 versions wouldve been way more relevant

[@hightidekraken]

Maybe get cimo on to talk about sealed/limited formats and the impact its had on yugituber scene and the ways the community plays in general?

[@Billy-ot8mk]

Great episode.

[@TheAtlusJack]

I got a top at Long Beach playing dark world. I had already pretty much stopped playing the game, my friend gave me 3 starter decks to make the deck for the event so we could get the tour bus mat. I practiced the whole night vs wind up and won more than 70% of the games because if I could turbo into skill drain/ deck dev, I usually just win on the spot lol

[@Thegameshadow1]

46:28 what really warms my heart. I love Caius.

[@jorgevarela3722]

The secondary format is like speed duel

[@moxmoonstone]

Yet another Yugioh volume of "back when the game was good", which is perfect. 🎉

[@9clawtiger]

2012 was my year I started attending locals regularly and not just theorycrafting on pojo

[@MalazanTheFallen]

You should do a video about why tier zero Tear was a better meta than tier zero snake eyes

[@dudegrey6608]

Deep dive into specific formats with maybe Joe Giorlando as a guest if you can get him. Austin Kulman for DADReturn if at all possible would be rad as well.

[@danieljobling1079]

a podcast on each formats would be cool

[@drew5121]

You gotta have hardleg Joe on here. That guy could use my binder from 2005 and somehow reach Master 1 with it.

[@Ragnarok540]

I would love to see Josh playing Balatro and Slay the Spire.

[@xCorvus7x]

1:05:13 You also want to keep a lot of the monsters you got from SE Ash in the graveyard.

[@juanmarcelo589]

Bring Duel Logs for trivia and gimmick decks

[@grappy1352]

im so interested on rouge deck that will be here soon

[@Zeroyue622]

Who came up the concept of missing the timing?

[@Ragnarok540]

In some cases it makes sense to use it to balance cards, for example the Baronne negate is a when effect so you have to respond directly to the effect you want to negate, so there is the possibility of chain blocking. However, for some cards it really is just a design mistake, for example Dupe Frog, if you link summon Almiraj with it, the search for a frog misses timing, since the last thing that happens is the link summon.

[@Lewt_2B]

i started in 2006 and last will felt like a custom card

[@YourUncleSam]

Everybody get in here. Yap man has something to say.

[@W_Sir_Morpheus]

I mean if josh is looking for different content then go on DBook and play some old formats, bring more of these formats to light like tengu format and sept 2012👍👍

[@earthteamjordan]

I'm glad they put their faces closer to each other. The layout needs improvement but I like this

[@ScallopGaming]

with the faces close together they gonna 😘

[@Joolenplus]

Future yugioh is 0.5 / 0 card combos where you can use basically any card or any monster to create an end board or combo. Sounds ridiculous but watch it happen.

[@W_Sir_Morpheus]

58:55 idk i just disagree with edison being super diverse i dont see it lol.

[@SaHa0v0]

Can't be late, if you talk about the past haha. Jokes aside, this is great!

[@Promin3nce]

Waiting to see how this episaode will manage to age like milk

[@GameConnoisseur69]

Farfa was asking for a vanguard esque reboot at 14 30 itd be ass

[@togder]

The final boss of elden ring is just *spoiler* Nibiru

[@defegatu]

Paleo deck podcast when?

[@W_Sir_Morpheus]

Im not surprised josh didnt like six sams and agents, dude is just stale asf lol

[@Rabidragon9241]

Yooooooooo Seereax gonna be on

[@traplover6357]

For topics like these, you can have a lighter upload schedule cuz it will age well. For modern game topics, definitely try to be early.

[@bijoulink3479]

Please get distant coder

[@ducky36F]

29:28 earth aggro superiority

[@Kylereeves13]

Yu-Gi-Oh: Classic similar to World of Warcraft Classic

[@YeahSureLetsGoSeeYamcha]

Who’s asking for seerax? We want relevant yugioh content creators, not the dudes who are clearly aiming at getting views from children.

[@Ragnarok540]

Just because you are not the target demographic for his content it doesn't mean his opinion is not important. Not everyone enjoys the game the same way. That's why I'm looking forward to the Hardleg episode.

[@TyYGO]

I'm Aquaman tbh

[@ERRandDEL]

'What is Adamancipator, Ba*rock*? Get it? :)" Farfa did not get it :(

[@jakehxllxws259]

It’s JoshHello

[@anacreon212]

when it comes to formats outside goat and edison. the one i see pop up alot is TOSS format.

[@Thestar17x]

RUSH DUEL WAS A REBOOT FOR YUGIOH 4 YEARS AGO

[@bubblebubble1058]

Yeah but its not really the same game at all. And dont get me wrong, its fun. But its a new game, period. And most people aren't in the market for a new game.

[@hightidekraken]

Im fine if people like goat but its def that format that gets shoved in your face and preached as the greatest thing ever so im personally not a huge fan of it

[@omegamanrad]

OLDGE

[@arkaninee]

The take on goat format is so incorrect, you really need to actually play it competitively to understand - Nobody is dropping bombs on each other. Goat is a game of patience, the players who just drop their cards first always lose - Pot is good but not game winning in goat. Draw 2 is only as good as what you would get, and you get - 2 flip monsters or a trap. There are very limited options that allow you to actually attack for game, which are the 3 chaos monsters. You can draw 10 cards but if you lose your chaos to backrow you can't actually win. So sure, if you get pot and faith you're very ahead, but you still have to play out 10+ turns and try to win before your opponent draws it as well. If you try and just drop sorcerer to get hit by a trap you will still lose Competitively it's the least sacky and most skillfull out of the popular time wizard formats Edit: Stein \ OTK decks exist in goat and they can top sometimes, but they're a non issue for the most part because they are inconsistent, and almost no good players will play those over the regular chaos deck in a serious tournament

[@moar1716]

Josh implied that it's not very sacky, but it can snowball out of control quite easily. Sure, activating Pot does not win you the game, but if you can cycle it with MoF or draw into other power cards like grace or duo, you are far ahead and likely to win. I personally really like the format but I agree here with Josh. Sometimes, there are just games where your opponent has the nuts, and in goat this feels even more unfair than in other formats. Starting with something like a - 2 in card advantage is just so hard to recover form in goat format (especially when playing against a good player). I also think that calling it the least sacky format is far from the truth. A lot of games just end with Storm+BLS and/or Ring which does not feel great. Not to mention that topdecking Pot or Grace can sometimes completely flip the tables. Again, I still think it is a great format, and I also had and still have a lot of fun playing it, but one has to admit that it can feel sacky, and there are some elements in the format which, IMO should have been addressed back then.

[@arkaninee]

​@@moar1716 Hey, I mainly meant Farfa's comments, but yeah of course sometimes your opponent opens the nuts. I think it's an issue with every format and not Goat specific, so attributing it to Goat being sacky is wrong in my opinion. In Edison, opening Whirlwind, Future Fusion, Dustshoot, Hamster Caius, Brain Caius, or many other combinations are far more deadly than opening Pot because they put you on a clock and are not possible to interact with. Pot just gives you a +1, which is obviously strong, but you need to draw the 2 of faith in your deck, and your opponent must not have Noc, or G2 Mind Control (Not talking about warriors who have more tools) And even after it resolves, obviously you're so far ahead, but you still have to play well to close the game out. Again going back to Edison, Blackwing opening Shura Whirlwind and setting backrow can play much worse and still win because of how oppressive their cards are. In HAT, if you play that (Quite popular but not nearly as the other 2) Opening Myrmelio Sanctum and any other live cards is extremely devastating, same for lonefire soul charge for example. So I wouldn't agree it feels more unfair in goat than other formats at all. I think people are just getting triggered by the power spell cards that just plus you immediately with no cost. If you're vs a good player, and he opens better than you, yes he will win - in all formats. This is yugioh, you either have a better deck, or you are better. Thing is, in 1 game or 1 match anything can happen. The worst player could open Pot Grace Thunder or Whirlwind Shura Icarus and beat you. I'd argue that in goat it's harder for the bad player to win with this combination, you have longer to recover and theres more room for misplay, where as Whirlwind will plus every turn without brain cells and the monsters will attack you for game within 3 turns if you have no defense. Over the course of a tournament or a few tournaments, if you play goat and you have the best deck, your draws on average should not be worse than your opponents (as opposed to 1 single game) and if you play well opponents drawing pot is a non issue long term

[@moar1716]

@@arkaninee maybe we have then a different definition of the term sacky...To me, this term does refer to generic broken cards which are almost always very powerful and can swing the tempo or just win the game on their own. Goat has a lot of those like Pot, Grace, Duo, Snatch, Ring, and BLS. Other formats also have sacky cards but goat has quite a lot of those and eventually also has some of the strongest (especially compared to the rest of the card pool) and most generic powercards compared to other formats such as Edison or Tenguplant format. Basically, every deck in goat plays those cards. The likelihood that my opponent is top-decking a BLS, Snatch, RIng, Pot etc is therefore much higher than him finding a (live) DAD or a brain control. In addition, again, referring to what Josh said, opening the game with grace + serpent/TD or Pot can just immediately snowball the game in your favor. The same can be said for cards like Future Fusion or Whirlwind in Edison, but those see much more counterplay, are significantly weaker when drawing them later in the game, and are not generic, not every deck can play them. Again, I don't mind playing goat but calling goat less sacky than any other of the TW formats is a big stretch. BLS alone ends so many games...

[@arkaninee]

​@@moar1716 Well my argument is that when played well those cards don't win the game more often than opening similar cards in other formats Except for BLS of course is an absurd card but other than that while those cards are strong they're no different than other formats like the examples you mentioned. Dark Armed for example is not played by every deck, but it is played by the 2 best decks (BW, Vayu) and is very popular and easy to drop for those decks. When it is dropped, there's very little you can do to avoid them getting a plus, and if you don't have a BTH\TT you might just lose on the spot. In goat only BLS is equivalent. There's not much counterplay to whirlwind \ FuFu if the opponent is going 1st, and even when 2nd, better draw the 1 of MST, it's pretty much no counter play. Even if you BTH the monster so WW doesn't resolve this turn, it's still a problem card you need to deal with immediately or they plus, no way to get out ahead from this for the opponent, break even at best. FuFu dumps your guys so even if you draw MST later you got the Mali or w\e Brain \ Dustshoot \ DaD \ Return also have very little to no counter play, if you count TT then it can counter BLS in goat as well, so I don't agree here Snatch is often sided out in chaos mirrors, ring is getting caught by breaker often or just used as a removal, ring for game is when you're low already and opponent happens to draw it late etc Sure opening Grace TD is insane, but what happens after? set spy set backrow pass. Ok my turn, I set spy set backrow pass. 5 turns later I'm still alive and I draw my own graceful. You're not gonna slam BLS turn 2, and if you do and I happen to have a removal you WILL lose because I still have BLS in my deck. Sure if you made no mistakes and you play the best deck AND draw better like grace into heavy bls ring you will win, but that's just true in any format.

[@drew5121]

Incorrect. The true golden age of YuGioH was Tear Ishizu I don’t care

[@Ragnarok540]

It definitely was peak Yu-Gi-Oh, is all downhill from there.

[@nutlow82]

lol I’m paid $200 for my dads

[@marshalkagami]

Hot take. Snake eyes ain’t that bad

[@ZackeroniAndCheese]

19:15 Josh talking out his ass Does he not research topics he's going to talk about?

[@Fr3d0-1]

Solemn judgement gets hit to one right around when gold series 2 dropped which was when the card got reprinted also lol

[@yogiwolfstudios8647]

First

[@rhinohearth]

So the main problem is, and fara does this more than Joshua but he does it too, is pause to smack your lips. You are giving yourself an obsessive compulsive disorder if you keep doing this. And it's disgusting to hear honestly

[@Fr3d0-1]

It’s gone up cause the deck is no longer 1000 dollars like everyone keeps saying . It’s been like 500 or less since thee last banlist

[@cadasshada9732]

It's dropping cause of banlist possible hit. If it doesn't get hit it'll skyrocket again

[@supervoltekka593]

wen rata