A Case For/Against Civilian Armor

[@jasonbailey9302]

I have fought, as an Army Infantryman, in 2 combat tours without body armor. Not by choice, it just wasn’t developed yet. Op Just Cause, Panama, 89-90 and Op Desert Storm, Iraq, 90-91. I do own plate carrier, level 4 plates and a battle belt. The mission now, as a civilian, is a force on force encounter at my property. A few seconds to don and out the back I go. It’s a force multiplier, as in, it gives me a second and third chance to stay in the fight. That’s ALL body armor is for, to absorb fight ending gunfire to keep you in the fight. It’s not a solve all, but most trained folks are taught to fire center mass, therefore, the plates catch it. Anywhere else can be TQ’d, packed or pressure bandaged. I also look way cooler with a Plate Carrier on than just my Star Wars pajamas in a gunfight.

[@handroids1981]

Well my dude, I got some serious fucking doubt on that last sentence. Other than that - solid fking comment.

[@statictech7]

Good point

[@RailRoad188]

Why plan on leaving cover and concealment, only some scenarios would call for that.

[@brotherbrovet1881]

I'm an old grunt who also was never issued armor thicker than a BDU blouse. Today, when I'm patrolling our woods for poachers, I wear a plate carrier with 3A Soft Armor plates. On it I carry two spare AR mags, tourniquet, flex cuffs and IFAK. Where we live, the Sheriff is just fine with qualified and trained citizens delivering trespassers to the jail. I R qualified and trained...de facto deputized. The .22 is the poachers favorite weapon. Yes, I've been shot at by metheads living like zombies in the woods. They usually have 9mm and 12 ga...so the 3A is sufficient.

[@m0gg83]

@@RailRoad188 Idk about you but I don't have bullet proof walls and furniture in my house

[@Pentagrxxm]

So many people don’t factor in the need to avoid conflict in SHTF/civil unrest scenarios into their LARP. Being covert is far smarter and effective than being overt 99% of the time.

[@charleslee4528]

Yes! Overt defending your property and covert when off your property is probably best in most cases.

[@sprky777]

And it isn't an old west gunfight, shoot and move, hide, run, hide, shoot. Don't stand up to return fire. Guerilla tactics and ambush tactics are effective.

[@Rocks_vs_Uzis]

@@sprky777 You still want something to stop bullets from poking holes in you. You don't have to be seen to get hit in a fight.

[@yobrodontshoot1130]

I think people need to factor if the are training for SHTF they are really mostly just training for _fun_ There will be no government overthrows, or invading foreign enemies. Once your training goes past “Things that actually happen in America on a day to day basis” you’ve entered full LARPer mode. Don’t get me wrong: -train for self defence -train for mass shootings and active shooters -train for survival These are realistic… But once you start training because of “globalist, Marxist, conservative, New World Order” type s&$t, you’re in fantasy land.

[@TwentyTwoSigma]

@@yobrodontshoot1130 Even though Joe has openly said America will be the head of the NWO? I don't think that's far off, nor is someone eventually trying to invade us.

[@michaelwilson6742]

Civilians should have access to any and everything LEO and military has access to. Just my opinion!!

[@randosmallfoot2132]

Don’t worry when the poop hit the wall we will get our hands on it.

[@michaelwilson6742]

@@randosmallfoot2132 battlefield pickups will be key. However, we can’t bank on battlefield pickups… prepare as best you can… hope it doesn’t happen, honestly. But my bets are it will sooner rather than later

[@LarsxLeia]

I desperately need to have a SU-27 in my possession loaded to the brim with R-73s

[@SilverShamrockNovelties]

FIRST…Civilians need to try a little harder to get in the kind of physical shape the military and LE people who wear it are in. You don’t get a “timeout” to catch your breath after you sprinted between cover wagging your 10lb rifle with 20lbs of plates and 12lbs of mags and water bags on your torso. Don’t even get me started on the belt kit and the doofus lid with strobes, ear-pro, nods, and counterweights. Once the party starts, you don’t get to stop at your leisure to take a break. Quit larping and go do the things.

[@bradypierron8736]

It’s the constitution’s opinion as well.

[@bdehalfdead5510]

The fact that LEO and Military are typically mentioned together as entities above civilians has always distributed me.

[@namenotfound8747]

I'm pretty sure 99% of the time, people are just being respectful, not anything else.

[@noel4854]

Disturbed* Agreed

[@yoloactual6975]

Yeah i get really distributed sometimes too

[@bdehalfdead5510]

My wife just volunteered me to fix her sister's car so I'm not changing it.

[@TheGosslings]

Especially when you factor in the amount of training civilians do when compared to that of LEO/MIL.

[@MrLonerforlife]

The way my battalion dealt with this was; if you are going out to get in a fight or going urban don armour. If you are rural and not looking to get into a fight stow that shit.

[@BrassFacts]

thanks for the input. Makes sense

[@joemama69448]

Yeah, there's no point wearing armor breaking brush in the woods/jungle. And on a small recon team we're breaking contact and running to our rally point if anything happens.

[@Cincinnatis]

What if you don’t know? I guess my question is how did this mentality work out, in terms of casualty rates, in your battalion?

[@quinn3334]

best firearms channel, most grounded in reality

[@themagnificent9296]

‼️💯💯🔥🔥

[@indeeznuts8438]

i like BF but he dont got nothing on flannel father

[@alexmaurice4274]

eh gt aint been that amazing for like 2.5 years imo. he got too into the "based"/ entertainment side rather than info side around then i feel has more of a demo ranch vibe than he used to @@indeeznuts8438

[@24YOA]

If it was pointless, the government wouldn't bother attempting to ban it. My $0.02

[@Flemdragon]

I highly disagree with that. lol they waste money on all kinds of stuff.

[@TwentyTwoSigma]

@@Flemdragon 50+ billion to a proxy war that WILL lead to the end of Ukraine is a good point.

[@24YOA]

@@Flemdragon Wasting money on pointless projects != legislation.

[@mikewaterfield3599]

The government, especially when decided by liberals, will attempt to control everything you do.

[@blackosprey2219]

Bold of you to assume the government is driven by logic and not a load of irrational fear like anything human.

[@mr.husquy9947]

Long story short you nailed this to me. As a Civilian I actually had both hard and soft armor every day because I worked for Armor truck services (obviously not at the same time)…I live in Los Angeles and keep my soft armor in my truck in case I come across riots which have happened in LA twice in my life time with either an over shirt or jacket or sweatshirt….I’m not a soldier I’m not here to fight I just want to get the hell out of there…however at times I’ve wanted to be overt and during those times I’d throw on my hard armor…basically mission specific stuff just like you said.

[@Gnolomweb]

It's "police" who are the true threat. If you have the wrong politics, they will repeatedly jail you to hurt your family. This happened continently to me until I became dangerous. Cops do not want to get shot in the face over politics.

[@BUZZKILLJRJR]

Exactly it's still a self DEFENSE tool we all should be able to use.

[@ayegee6093]

Same here, had to work at night during the most recent rioting and was back and forth from Hollywood to South Central and I kept my soft armor on the entire time. My main concern was making it home at the end of my shift..

[@brentalyea6729]

Lived in Hollywood when SHTF, hard armor for bullets and debris tbh

[@jaredhardegree8377]

If those are ER statistics you showed, there would be a significant portion of the population of those shot in the torso or head that don't show up in the data because they were taken straight to the morgue, bypassing the ER entirely.

[@itsmainman2709]

That’s not necessarily true, most bodies that are picked up by a funeral home are natural deaths. Most deaths that are accidental or intentional will not be called until a medical professional has arrived on scene. I would assume that any stats collected by EMS are going to be included in any ER statistics.

[@apersonontheinternet8006]

@itsmainman2709 as a dude that has helped shovel someone’s grandma out of her bathtub, you are correct.

​@@apersonontheinternet8006eww

[@nickhosford7801]

Exactly this. Survivor bias skews these ED figures a lot. This is why ED nurses say they see more people die from .22 than any other caliber; it's because those shot with a .22 live long enough to make it to the ED.

[@calebnation6155]

​@itsmainman2709 there's actually a separate entity for EMS statistics, it's called NEMSIS

[@The_Assassin_of_The_Gray]

The fact that politicians *_DO NOT_* want you to have it, means you *_NEED_* it

[@briank.7937]

So that works with everything right?

[@The_Assassin_of_The_Gray]

@@briank.7937 I would think so . . . I *_WOULD_* like an Acme Illudium PU36 Explosive Space Modulator . . . For the collectability, of course

[@nicholasbailey8450]

This is why I keep a tub full of mercury in my basement.

[@colby1398]

@@briank.7937 Honestly, yeah. The government doesn't want me to have a metric ton of coke, because they know I could afford more armor then

[@agentoranj5858]

@@nicholasbailey8450 I always keep my mutated anthrax under my pillow, for duck hunting.

[@DarkAutumnNight]

Great content! In a professional setting we've always taught that you need to understand the limitations of your gear, and that it won't always work or win a fight. Civies should absolutely have the right to force multipliers; but should recognize and train around it not being an auto 'win.'

[@BrassFacts]

well said. Auto win is basically the sentiment of many in how they view armor, but the term eluded me

[@protectpersevere2030]

Besides your opening comments on owning it out of spite, I mainly own hard armor for static security of my community or direct action if that’s even a thing in a collapse. I think a lot of people talk about armor but have never worn or even ran around in it all day and overestimate their cardio. As i trained more with armor the more i realized that there are times that dropping armor or not wearing it are actually more advantageous

[@TheSpecialJ11]

Reminds me of wearing chain mail as a physical endurance training method. It's exhausting to be burdened with all that weight all day, which means if you can adapt your body to it, you'll be far more effective than someone without the adaptation. Gotta be careful about your joints though.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

Armour covers half of your 'one hit wonder' zones, and it only works if your enemy is accurate enough to hit it (paraphrasing clint smith) I think everyone should have a good set of plates and a carrier, but just know that if you actually 'need' the armour, you're likely to get fvcked up anyways.

[@tmacfan16]

Yeah so whats the point just give up and let the enemy shoot you

[@zeayh]

This kind of thinking is up there next to "Just rack it and they'll run away" & John Lovell's "I don't use a suppressor on my home defense rifle because psychological warfare." You're basing your decisions off of someone you don't know or control. The same thinking could also be applied to that handheld light technique where you move the light away from your body so they shoot at your light, If they can't keep their rounds centered on where your armor would be, what makes you think they can keep it centered on your light lmao.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

@@zeayh To you and that other guy: I very clearly said everyone should have a set of plates, just know that they aren't magical. Plenty of people die in body armour. Hell, every dead soldier we've brought back since the late 90s was killed in armour. As a civilian, eho doesn't have CAS or a Medivac on standby, if the situation you run into necessitates rifle plates you're probably going to catch a bullet somewhere that isn't your armour, and if it hits a vital you're done. Armour may save you, armour may prolong your life, or your suffering, but it isn't perfect.

[@zeayh]

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Wouldn't the lack of great healthcare be an incentive for armor though? You have a chance to take rounds everywhere, However it just so happens that where you die the quickest and what really isn't treatable in the field is the head & thorax, where your brain, heart, & lungs are. If you get shot in the leg or arm, you tourniquet as high as you can, pack the wound, then wrap it. You can't do that when your heart & lung (sucking chest wound maybe?) has a hole in it or your head is gone. You can live with a holes in your legs or arms though. However, you might be a goner if your leg or arm gets blown off though haha. Ultimately, what armor really does (just like having a weapon when you need it) is give you a chance, it may not be the biggest one ever but it really comes down to wether or not, you want to stack the odds in your favor. Just like wearing NODS, using more accurate weapons that can hit from a longer range more often, using thermals, having explosives etc etc. All of this assumes that you can't just leave and never come back, you win 100% of the fights you aren't in right?

[@noahmcdonald5208]

@@tmacfan16 cus it’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

[@stevencali3539]

Something I would like to point out regarding the CONUS GSW stats: They are people who made it to the ER. It doesn't actually cover all GSWs, so we see a higher percentage of peripheral, lower mortality wounds, as those who were deceased prior to arrival in the ER aren't counted. Also, glad to hear that the channel is doing well, I hope this comment pleases the algorithm.

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

Survivorship bias, just like the WW2 B-17 study!

[@abstractapproach634]

Like the old "where to put the armor on the plane" engineers riddle

[@Spessforce]

In the kind of civil unrest that makes bullets flying around a larger concern than normal, I would absolutely trade defeating rifle threats for the coverage of a 3a vest (that can still accept a plate if needed) that stops all the common calibers used in crime and random violence.

[@clapback7266]

I have the LA police gear low profile carrier and for an 80 dollar piece of kit it works surprisingly well. I went on a 5 mile hike through the mountains with a jacket over it and it was surprisingly concealable to the point that my own friends and family didn’t realize I had 2 hard armor plates + 4 magazines on me. I can even wear a hoodie over it but it does give me the invisible lats and traps look though

[@locomike102]

When we think about the end of the world scenarios, just do some reading about wound care/medics/hospitals in the Civil War, because that is what it is probably going to look like, at best.

[@BrassFacts]

get that saw out. amputations gonna be common place

[@stevencali3539]

We do have one up on them. We have a better understanding of disease, cleanliness, and effective disinfecting agents. Still gonna be a rough go of it without fully functioning ERs/Surgical Centers, but at least we won't be cutting on Joe's mangled hand with the same filthy saw we used to cut off Bob's gangrenous foot 5 minutes ago.

[@KidCorporate]

If that's not a ringing endorsement for a longer-range rifle like an SPR as your main gun, I don't know what is.

[@83917Michael]

@@KidCorporate I think its an even better endorsement for not letting it get to that point, and cooperating to keep society running. A world without antibiotics etc is not a world we should allow, for our children and loved ones if not for our own sake. 🇺🇸

[@Rocks_vs_Uzis]

@@83917Michael You cannot reason with or cooperate with evil. You aren't always given an option. Accept this as the reality and be prepared for conflict but live life as peacefully as possible for as long as possible.

[@RP-ks6ly]

"Arms" as pertains to the 2nd amendment includes ANYTHING that can be used in preserving your freedom....

[@superOify]

No rules for anyone!

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

​@@superOify No, the Rules are for the Government, to prevent them from infringing upon our Rights.

[@combatant_training_group]

I love discovering channels like this… the backlog of quality discussions I now have access to is fantastic. Keep up the good work man 👍🏼

[@bobbabouy8537]

The Marine Corps prioritizes mobility over armor protection, A few years ago one of the DoD contractors gave a brand new Armor system to the Marines in the middle east and basically said hey this covers more of your vital bits so you can live longer. What the Marines figured out was the older armor was more preferable because of the doctrine of infantry fighting being mobile or you die, when you get weighed down by extra armor it doesn't matter about the added protection, the longer you are in the crosshairs of an enemy the more rounds you are gonna take and the more likely one is gonna find a hole in your armor anyways. And exactly like you said, Armor is there to stop fire fight ending wounds from occurring and anything else if moden medical support is still available to keep you alive long enough to receive that care. I am also assuming the video popped up in my feed because of everything going on with Texas and the rest of the country.

[@tomrobinson7817]

I personally see the benefits of sticking out as a deterrent. Also with a lack of access to medical care, something such as plates in my mind is more valuable, given it can help prevent injury in the first place. Also it was great to hear you mention the physiological aspects of using armor.

[@Gnolomweb]

When I switched to open carry instead of concealed; the usual threats stopped targeting me for attacks that had chances of escalation.

[@moss8702]

@@Gnolomweb It's a double edged sword. Because now you are the obvious initial target for combatants. And you only get to be complacent once.

[@Gnolomweb]

@@moss8702 For most EDC applications; open carry is fine. If you're walking through the hood, that's different. Also, no one is walking walking into a jewelry store with the intent to kill before a smash and garb / etc. -- else you'd see a lot more dead shop clearks.

[@moss8702]

@@Gnolomweb No. Instead you see more of those crimes happening in grocery stores, convenience stores, gas stations, smoke shops. And those customers and clerks DO infact get shot fairly often. There's plenty of videos of guys running off with firearms while someone open carrying in line at some store or gas station. You better be carrying at minimum a level 2 holster. And even then there are plenty of criminals who know how they were. Open carry is not the deterrent you think it is.

[@Gnolomweb]

@@moss8702 It is the deterrent I think it is. and yes, level 2 holster. If you're carrying AND you relax, you shouldn't have a gun anyways -- you'd be more likely to kill yourself than an assailant. You're 100% wrong about your open carry perception (for those who carry responsibly.) If youre CC you're more likely to be attacked and even if you kill your attacker, you're more likely for the police to try to come kill you after the fact (in every major city, this is the case.) IF you were correct, you'd see way more people stealing cops weapons and shooting them with it. Which just isn't the case.

[@Esch_atton]

Definitely added some useful insite to the armor conversation, Brass! Fred from spiritus convinced me that if you find yourself needing body armor you also need a ballistic helmet. To see your target you gotta put your nugget out there.

[@BrassFacts]

yep, I need a ballistic hard hat in my life. working on it.

[@luckyomen]

@@BrassFacts I bought one so take this with a grain of salt, but the "Neosteel" helmet by Diamond age is really light weight and can stop most pistol rounds. I was in the Marines and always hated the heft of the helmets we had, granted it regularly had nvgs on it so extra weight and cumbersome-ness(?) was apparent. It drove me to try and find a lighter helmet option. The steel helmet is primarily for fragmentation, but I found their ballistic testing convincing and decided the $440 I spent to include the face protector was worth it. Even with the mandible attached it still weighs less than my issued ACH/MICH2000 style helmet, albeit at a slightly lower rating but much less back-face deformation to worry about. W/o the face protector you get a decent $250 helmet in High cut or ACH. High cut is the only one that can take the mandible though. Yes, this sounds like an ad, sorry.

[@nomad155]

That's when I say that it create more problems than solutions. What situation would you need it when body armor is much more easily concealable and more likely to get hit? Most folks can't hit a silhouette at 25yds so even in combat it's more than likely they'll hit your torso before your head. It's just unnecessary added clunk to citizen extra EDC rather than SHTF

[@Esch_atton]

@@nomad155 I disagree. Ideally, in a combat scenario, you're using proper cover and concealment the majority of the time. So to see whatever it is you want to shoot at (or to see whatever is shooting at you) the only thing one has to expose is their eyes... which is attached to their head, and if bullets are flying I want some sort of ballistic protection on the one chunk of flesh I'm most likely to expose to the enemy.

[@nomad155]

@@Esch_atton I don't disagree in a "Combat" scenario. I'm referring to at worst, civil unrest. If it's like what we had in the last few years, you're more than fine with just a vest. You'll stick out with a helmet and maybe even targeted as was the case with Kyle.

[@itsamk18-ish]

I purchased a few sets of lvl 4 plates just because there have been politicians talking about dropping the ban hammer. An event of civil unrest coming to a town near you could definitely be a good cause for it tho. I’m of the opinion that when something like that is happening the best thing to do is stay far far away. In a situation where it all happens very fast though maybe you wear it while trying to flee the area or maybe it’s gotten so bad that you need to “fight your way out”.

[@Gnolomweb]

Fight or flight. I'd rather die than run away from my land / not defend my birthright.

[@itsamk18-ish]

@@Gnolomweb i got my kids to worry about and im not good to them dead. So trying to get them away from a bunch of anger addicts would be my goal. I can definitely appreciate what you’re saying though, but i live in a rental in the middle of town i have nothing to protect but my kids.

[@Gnolomweb]

@@itsamk18-ish yeah, if you have nothing but your kids. You have a point. I have mine and the family history/land... Worth fighting for if need be. It will be the LEOs who will be doing the attacking.

[@itsamk18-ish]

@@Gnolomweb if my kids were a little bigger and we had a farm or something like that I’m sure i would have a different view. They need me atleast for a few more years. I try to tell people that all the time,if you have a gadsen flag flying over your thin blue line flag who do you think will step on your snek. We have already seen what the cops will do when faced with a decision to follow orders or uphold the constitution and now it’s worse. A lot of cops that that was against enforcing masks already quit leaving yes men,rookies and guys that just wanna make it to their pension.

[@garrettmccullough2249]

@@itsamk18-ish That's a situation where I would absolutely prefer a bug-out kit over a fight/battle kit. Getting out of a big city would be my first goal in SHTF.

[@zact9941]

I think there’s a lot more that can be added to the misconceptions of armor. You talked about it a little when you mentioned the juggernaut effect. One thing to keep in mind is that most civilians reference pictures of “pros” wearing armor. One thing that is never stated in the picture is that “pros” risk acceptance. When I was in the military we where REQUIRED to wear armor, often times to a detriment of mobility. In a gunfight though mobility is the highest factor of survivability. It comes down to some O type trying to cover their career by saying “the dudes had the kit, if they die it’s their fault” when a mission gets side ways

[@BrassFacts]

yep. for sure, good point

[@TheJohn_Highway]

Go ask a Ukrainian or Russian how many of them would want to get into a firefight without body armor on.

[@KipKil1igan]

You're comparing peer on peer modern combat to a civilian shtf. Youre delusional if you think you'll be assaultng anything or carrying out direct action tasks. You'll likely just get wig split by some fudd sitting back in his window with his old Enfield cus you looked like a tasty loot drop. Please snap out if the fantasy.

[@Arkancide]

I have armor for myself and my wife for when A: We need to move through or near chaos on our way to the farm/safety. B: For participating in local militia activity for community defense. C: Hostile home/town invasions whether from foreign or domestic sources. I don't expect to survive due to armor. I don't expect to survive at all. All I know is that the chances of keeping my wife safe goes up when I have armor to use. My armor is Tacticon level III+ AR600 plates with frag coating. I needed something that could stop M855 ammo(very common). It's heavy, I'll not be effective at any wilderness survival treks wearing it. But it'll be fine for driving to the farm, and for use at the farm(50 acres). No squad, no roaming, no looking for trouble. The foes I'll likely run into aren't likely to use M855A1 or AP rounds. I was Army, but the only special force I could have qualified for is Meal Team Six. Maybe a Gravy Seal. I remember well the first rule of Murphy's Law: You are NOT a superman.

[@cm2973]

Gonna push back on your idea. Extremity injuries are very survivable with washout (and ideally ABX) but a thoracic hit is likely fatal without a specialized surgeon. Any good general surgeon can handle isolated abdominal hits. Doctors aren't THAT rare, but you need to find us and incorporate us into your team. 4 hitter schizos are a lot less likely to make it long term than a team of various professionals that are well trained. Get armor. Not being hit in the vitals is always better than being hit, so if possible or feasible, wear it.

[@mossbergmaniac1947]

I know that this is an older video but I wanted to comment about something that lives rent free in my head... While fragmentation is something that isn't a likely threat in the CONUS, there is something analogous to fragmentation in the CONUS that isn't common overseas but very common in the US, Yokels with shotguns. Centerfire rifles in my neck of the woods are relatively uncommon compared to shotguns. Hard plates are a must have in my opinion, but I also have throat protection and ballistic eyewear just in case cletus ambushes me with grandpa's scattergun. I would hate to be protected from greentip 5.56 only to become a lootdrop because a lucky pellet from some walmart birdshot blinded me, or nicked my carotid.

[@DIYDad1]

Your channel is underrated in a lot of ways I’ve been watching a lot of your content lately you bring a lot of good viewpoints. On this specific topic, I have some friends who have told me they’ve been shot at in the service and insist on only having NIJ level 4 certified plates with trauma pads installed and full kit load out because anything less will get you killed. I actually see a lot of use cases for soft armor and level 3 plates. The benefit being weight savings and cost. How often are we getting shot at by 30-06 black tip at point blank range? I mean it’s good to be over built when it comes to being shot at but at the same time I’ve seen cheap LA PG 3 plates shot at by that armor and survived multiple hits and they are like $130 each. I need a good set of cheap ish quality plates one of these days. When it comes to running through the woods in a small group of people I see a huge benefit to being fast and light. Staying mobile is something you need to think about. As civilians we don’t have the luxury of a military supply chain and military vehicles dropping us off and picking us up all the time.

[@richardrobinson9534]

Check out RTS. I run their level 4 ceramic plates and they're waaaaay lighter than my steel plates I had. I think each are only 3 point something lbs each. Price is great and these plates out performed HESCO plates against multiple hits.

[@262fire3]

I wish the hard armor conversion would be veiwed and used for hunting on public hunting grounds. I think hunting is awsome and it is sad to hear people pass because some dumb ass shoot at a deer cresting a hill or other stupid situation, killing someone on the other side of the hill.

[@jonathonschram3429]

I think this isn't talked about for several reasons. Level 4 plates are heavy...and anything less than that is irrelevant for most high power deer rifle cartridges. I don't want to wear 20+ lbs of extra gear. I'd much rather just wear an orange cap. And the other reason I think is just plain cost. If people want to wear plates while hunting, I have no problem with that. Wearing more hunter orange and carrying a small first aid kit is way, way more practical though.

[@262fire3]

@@jonathonschram3429 yes I agree that for a 100 % percent safety you would need level 4 but the conversation needs to be started because if we can get developers to lighten level 4 and or show the public it is safety equipment vs just for tactical purposes.

[@PracticalReformation]

I hunt in an area where up until the last few years only shotguns have been legal to hunt deer with. I have worn soft armor as an experiment. Definitely doable but also brought up significant issues. I was using the armor in to winter in rugged terrain. Great at keeping warm but also extremely easy to overheat with heavy activity to the point that even with a moisture wicking under layer i was rather cold after having sweat with the armor on.

[@Vegas7.62]

I'd love to have more conversations about the medical side. Touching on it was very thought provoking.

[@GirlSmotheredToDeath]

I'm a neurosurgeon who has had the honor of removing bullets from people.

[@UncleDon226]

I got one of those heavy vests with the 3A inserts and rifle plates. That is my "last stand" armor when I am going to be holding down in one place. If I am going to be taking to the hills, I'll either bring a plate carrier or nothing. I think everyone should have armor. Preferably multiple sets. Get your under-shirt 3A armor, some light chest rig plates, and a juggernaut set. As you said- it's not a one-size-fits-all.

[@fredmyers485]

Building a kit around ‘a mission’ is a recipe for failure. Better off having a base kit and any other items you might need to cover a wide range of emergencies in close proximity, along with the necessary bags to mobilize and move said gear. Too many possibilities out there and planning for one is just too risky.

[@Porty1119]

Expandable GP capacity is the way, IMO. Depending on the day, you may want breaching tools, demolitions equipment, extra commo, more water, SIGINT gadgets, or something else. Design your gear to allow flexibility.

[@manictiger]

I prefer multiple "kits". Grab the one that suits the task.

[@palmtreecorpse]

This is honestly my favorite gun/gear related channel on youtube at this point, I appreciate and value your opinion as someone who is solely a civilian and discusses these topics within the realm of reality. Gonna sign up on subscribe star, keep it moving man and stay safe out there!

[@theazuzhaters9988]

This is probably the smartest gun channel and it's super underrated.

[@greatlakestatedestroyerpet117]

Great video! I’ve found that a good fitting life jacket, covered in two layers of Monster pull tabs woven together with 12 gauge copper wire, works great for my nightly, covert activities.

[@brandonchism6960]

Very valid and thorough discussion and I love all of your points. If I may, I’d like to add to the discussion from an alternate perspective. I’m not a medic in the military, but because of the nature of what we faced in Iraq/Afghanistan with IEDs, many EOD techs had higher degrees of medical training than a lot of the guys we were rolling with. We’re not special or anything, just you don’t want to risk sending “Doc” into an area where a guy just had his legs deleted without it being cleared if possible. To that end, we all should probably take a course or two in field medicine. Tourniquet application and wound dressing techniques are paramount in hairy situations. Secondly, and IMO more important… one should strive to physical conditioning that allows for armor to be as baseline as holsters, water, or food. What I mean by that is if you’re seriously considering armor (and I think we all should) train yourself in a manner such that putting armor on is as normal as putting on pants. Yeah, it’s not as comfortable to carry and train to carry all that weight, but conditioning to that level means you’re not making a decision about doffing armor, water, or food because you’re used to ALWAYS carrying those items in addition to bullets, bandages, and your rifle.

[@toddparker514]

I love your videos your very realistic not fantasy based lol . Keep up the good work . I like to watch your videos to keep me grounded which I normally am but you content helps thanks a lot.

[@brandonisthetrivium1]

I've been listing to your channel non stop for past couple days. No fluff and all info. Love it

[@uncreativename9936]

One consideration for armor that I think would be relevant for you in Utah, is that what makes it bad in summer is excellent in winter. Plates really do retain a ton of body and it makes a huge difference in the cold. My first winter in the army I took my plates off in the field when I first got the chance and put them back on a few minutes later as I got way colder and wearing the plates warmed me back up. Edit: Of course this was with GI IBA and IOTV. Might not work as well with the more slick oper8tor ones people wear. I'm pretty sure this is the main cause of fatigue, the trapped body heat, rather than the weight. IME having one on back and front sort of balances them out, so although you're certainly carrying the weight, it's not nearly as bad as if all that weight was added to your back. I think it's just important for people to realize that the fatigue is very highly dependent on temperature rather than weight alone. One thing I'll experiment with when I get some personal plates, is just having a front plate when carrying a backpack. Another theory of mine is that the inch or two that a back plate pushes the pack away from you also disproportionately causes fatigue as now the pack is pushed out away from the body. Additionally I think the front plate counter balancing the backpack itself rather than a rear plate my help reduce fatigue as opposed to front and rear plates with a pack. Although of course this is just a theory and I haven't gotten to try it out yet.

[@FSM1138]

ive had the same thought about back plates, another thing to consider is that if you've been flanked bad enough to get shot in the back you're probably fucked regardless, I'd say better to have front armor and lose the back for weight and distribution like you said

[@Mike_hunt01]

Another consideration. Get stronger, get healthier to carry your equipment without having to degrade your own personal protection which can affect mission/ readiness

[@jhutch1470]

You may ditch your backpack in a fight. Then you will be unbalanced. Keep the back plate.

[@elterga6224]

@@FSM1138not necessarily, if you have to break contact, you’re not going to be running backwards, you’ll be busting ass with your back towards the enemy until you can find better cover and concealment to help cover your teammates and/or yourself.

[@Rambocop9]

level 3a soft armor with pockets for plates and a chest rig seems to be the most cost effective and versatile option

[@traviswhite3488]

The idea that I WOULDNT be able to go full blood meridian with a plate carrier and AR on horeseback post SHTF makes my heart weep

[@BezmenovDisciple]

Lmfao this comment alone makes me not wanna sell my plates.

[@SynerG4ce]

Great overview, I've come to a lot of the same conclusions, especially the in-extremis collapse considerations. Any wound is a HIGH-LIKELIHOOD-MORTAL WOUND without post-wound care, anti-biotics, surgical intervention for internal wounds, and rapid access to blood products. The biggest use of armor at this point IMO is just maximizing your advantages in defending your own domicile/home/property. Point defense. The other time I would consider it is in the type of semi-or-total collapse situations and wearing it while driving a vehicle - literally, MOUNTED. It just maximizes survivability at the point of contact - and it can always be doffed as necessary if you gotta bug-out-on-foot. All of these various considerations and the cost means: for most people, it shouldn't be a priority. The peace of mind is a value it's own, but I would argue it's FAR more important to have 1000 rounds stockpiled than having armor. That means if your MONTHLY EXPENDABLE INCOME isn't a significant fraction of the cost of 1000 rounds, the priority is measured in MONTHS of saving, slowly.

[@jasestrong]

I am a veteran and retired LEO, but above that I am and always will be an armed civilian. Armed Americans made this country what it is. I have no problems with civilian owning and using body armor, I highly recommend it.

[@dougsmith8843]

Very pragmatic approach. Informative. For me, reinforced a lot of down sides I figured out myself. Great video.

[@caseybrown5183]

Another scenario: if you are Mil/LEO, but your gear stays at work, and you can be recalled. Example: I’m in the National Guard and got recalled for the riots 3 separate times. One of those was very short notice. Having a rig that matches or complements your work rig means you can travel into a bad situation with your kit AND train with it outside of work.

[@shyguy7623]

KZbin needs more videos like this instead of gear reviews. Thanks for doin em

[@TheRiskyDingo]

You should have armor and plates for multiple reasons but as far as preparing its a awesome physical training tool as well. Train in your kit guys!

[@Buletspunge555]

Hey man! Appreciate the constant grounded approach. I have these thought exercise conversations alot with my friends. It's good to hear other people keeping it real. Hearing it from content creators helps to validate the message. So many people are getting sucked into fantasy these days. "LARPing" is beginning to be taken too seriously, almost like "looking cool is important". Guys, it's supposed to be a fucking joke. Why spend the money on ammo, gas, free time lost, training in overt battle garb you probably won't have on you in your moment of need. Especially when you can't draw your CCW and hit a decently challenging target in a spicy time constraint? That's what you'll need most!

[@BuckFoeJiden]

To me, the only time hard armor makes sense is if you're defending an objective, or assaulting an objective. There would be some environments where movement with hard armor would make sense, but your average civilian seeing any of these outside of defending an objective are slim to none. Imo, if you're moving and doing recon type stuff, you'll want to be as light and agile as possible. I still believe every civilian should own hard armor, though. In the improbable, but never impossible, event we find ourselves in a situation similar to Ukraine, hard armor would be a major force multiplier. Steel plates should be avoided, though. Against straight on impacts, they're effective with proper spall protection, but impacts coming in at any sort of angle can lead to devastating hits on you, or your friends via ricocheting. Anyone who's interested should look into RMA Armament for their 1155 plates if you're on a budget. IV ceramic plates at around 160 per plate.

[@yobrodontshoot1130]

I mean sure, if someone invents teleportation technology, the US is at a serious risk of a Ukraine type situation. Besides that? Have fun getting that much materiel and personnel over the ocean. It’s the whole reason the entire Axis side of WW2 said “Invading the continental United States is impossible” Logistics are key. And Mexico or Canada doesn’t really stand a chance against the US. If anything, civil unrest is what would hit the US as a SHTF situation. I can comfortably and confidently say that never, ever in our lifetime will another nation be capable of invading the mainland USA, or will there ever be a “tyrant” that actually controls the US akin to a Hitler, Stalin, or Mao type deal. You couldn’t even pull off a “soft” dictatorship due to the extremely compartmentalized nature of the US.

[@jasonbailey9302]

One more tip, when you bound in bounding overwatch, you say, “I’m up, they see me, I’m down.” That is the amount of time you have until the enemy shoots you, it’s not the movies, it’s a real firefight. The enemy, can see you and track you. Shoot, move and communicate are words we live by, movement to cover isn’t just run until you get to cover, it’s a lot of “I’m up, they see me, I’m down” until you GET to cover. Just advice.

[@kevinobrien3888]

I’m a fan of roll with what you think you could need even if you never end up using it. If you have the money go for it. However I’ll also take the “black pill” perspective as well. If you’re gonna roll out with kit and guns odds are you’re going to get shot. It is what it is. Great video and great things to consider.

[@AR15andGOD]

I don't think anyone is gonna shoot you just for being loaded up unless you're walking thru a crowded hamster wheel (city) in the middle of a panic

[@robertmckinney1132]

Out of all the Nova footage I've seen watching Brass Facts videos, my favorite is the last 40 seconds or so of this video.

[@shockashoota]

I wear armor at night shoots . Because it’s dark , everyone’s learning, slips,trips,falls . The whole atmosphere is more dangerous than a typical bench shoot rage day .I think the most likely situation to get shot is by accident and hard plates might just make something horrible into a close call .

[@rodiculous9464]

Its funny you mentioned armor giving you a false sense of confidence, because I do that in tarkov too. Even if it's just a viddeogame it can still give you a glimpse into human psychology

[@jasonbailey9302]

Practice reloading in the prone position. You’ll be stuck in the prone by suppressive fire more often than you think in a gunfight. It sucks, because, your mags are UNDER you and when you roll to one side, it elevates that side and when it’s a two way range, you’re trying to melt INTO the ground. We got ambushed in a defensive position after taking the objective, I was a bit in the open and tried to fit my whole 6’3 200lb body UNDER my KPOT(Kevlar helmet)

[@Porty1119]

I've started carrying mags on my hips via SFLCS LBE. They're far more accessible when prone.

[@ef3345]

Honestly, this is my favorite guntube channel. The philosophy of use videos are second to none imo, and I used to watch a lot of nutnfancy who I still like. But I hope you stay in the game.

[@rustywolf6813]

Great vid!! I personally, have 2 sets of armor and 2 plate carriers. I have a 3A concealable soft that is in my van for GHB. If something suddenly happens, very few will also suddenly have a rifle. So pistol armor to get home is enough for me. I also have a concealable PC, and a more tactical Crye SPC lightweight one. If I need to conceal for rifle threat, I can, it can also carry mags and stuff, but only on the side with elastic-I keep it clean. Granted, it may be obvious, but it's not AS obvious, especially if it's winter. In summer, maybe a light rain jacket or wind breaker? It's a Chase SOCC. And then I have my Crye Airlite SPC for ultimate zero F's given with mags, etc. Lol I think more should think about what CARRIES the armor, and when to use what, than what type of armor, or if they should get it,etc. Just my opinion. Oh, and if you're gonna buy armor, buy the best/lightest you can, or you'll never wear it. I have AR500 plates, they're heavy, and after Knee surgery, I can wear them, but no thanks. I kept them, but upgraded to DFNDR 3++ lightweight. Definitely worth the money, hence the Crye Airlite, ounces equal pounds and calories. Buy once, cry once.

[@AbbadonGrey]

Most people I know have rifles in their cars/trucks. Hell I could go to a local Walmart parking lot and probably walk away with a handful of rifles if I were so inclined though I'm not.

[@rustywolf6813]

@@AbbadonGrey agreed, I'm in FL, so same here. But my 3A is for 95%+ of people, who don't carry rifles. I also always carry my PVS-14 in my GHB. Travel at night to avoid heat and people. Add in those odds, im probably pretty good. Not to mention, if I have to uhf it home, like an EMP or something? There will be a normalcy bias, and cops and more trying to keep control. So a rifle and a plate carrier would be a bad idea. GHB to me is 2 things, under the radar, and get home ASAP-so the less/lighter the better. NOT full load out. Different areas may be different though.

[@beeefstick]

Another excellent discussion! This channel is one of the absolute best sources of pragmatic information on these types of topics.

[@devinmanderson]

For anyone looking for hard plates RMA has the best warranty on the market for the price...I picked up lvl4 ceramic ESAPI plates with a 10year warranty for under 500 bucks , that was pre virus. They also carry a certification for up to .30-06 ap rounds.

[@presidentmerkinmuffley6769]

All certified lvl4 plates are rated to take a .30-06 ap, it is the literal testing standard.

[@devinmanderson]

@@presidentmerkinmuffley6769 I know this but alot of new people to armor dont understand ratings and certification standards so it was easier to just say that. But like it kool man.

[@adamrobbins2091]

Cati

[@calebdoner]

This was a very productive thought experiment. Thanks for walking through this. Excellent points!

[@kerbalairforce8802]

I have 2 different 37mm flare launchers that can legally be used to shoot smoke, flares, and teargas canisters. There's plenty of use for such distracting items for force multiplying.

[@travelingspartan2035]

Where's you source the tear gas? I need me some of that.

[@mikadopen4809]

Appreciate the realistic take on body armor and the necessity for external support

[@moss8702]

The concealment thing makes sense in the obvious specific scenarios you listed. Realistically tho with a full blown collapse of society, you wanna be kitted out like early GWOT. Cause you don't resupply. You don't have the comfort of defendable shelter in most cases, and you will need to carry at minimum 3 days of food w/ clothes/etc mags. The low profile minimalist set ups I see are not set up for those scenarios. Bounding, breaking contact via bounding, etc. All require constant suppression and alot of ammo.

[@apersonontheinternet8006]

I'm a year late to your comment but would like to add my two cents. I absolutely prefer specific slick carriers because the modularity is unrivaled. I can switch from a low-viz profile to a full infantry combat loadout in the matter of a minute or two by switching a placard and swapping cummerbunds. Obviously not all slick carriers have this ability but those that do can be very robust.

[@moss8702]

@@apersonontheinternet8006 you don't have the mission set or requirements to constantly change your setup. At no point in a case of a collapse will you want something ultra slick without a home base. And you aren't ever guaranteed a home base in this specific scenario. Even in the case of a semi-organized civil war or invasion. The front line is constantly moving and logistics may not be in your favor (which is pretty normal in the infantry). You don't have the luxury of US govt logistics power on your side. If 8-10 mags + water and med is really weighing you down, thats a training issue.

[@apersonontheinternet8006]

@@moss8702 Direct Action Gear Hellcat, 6 in the cummerbund, one in the rifle before placards, belt or anything and that is 25rnd .308. I can easily swap to 5.56 and clip in my old TAP over top for an additional 8 mags, but also have some 7.62 panels. I also have cummerbunds that go over or replace the elastic ones with side plates and the works. My wife has a JPC 2.0 that is pretty slick but gets robust pretty quickly. Not as fast as the Hellcat but still slick and modular. What does your wife have?

[@moss8702]

@@apersonontheinternet8006 Alright. Now add not being able to stick or maintain those straps once they tear. Maybe have a quick release. Maybe now you need to add comms, water, extra IFAK, etc etcetc. Ever wore a 60-100lb pack with a belt or a plate carrier that doesnt load bear weight well because it was designed to be minimalist? I can promise you you'll regret your mistake pretty early on. She has a JPC also. I have 3 PC's. The Crye CPC, Mayflower APC, and the USMC Gen 2 PC by Armor Express. Again. Your theory and "modularity" applies to having some miracle home base where you can swap your gear and only carry bare essentials VS being displaced and under constant conflict. Real survival requires a pretty big cup of "This is gonna hurt" and thats reality. It sucks but it's the worst thing humanity hss to offer so ofcourse it will.

[@apersonontheinternet8006]

@@moss8702 Son, you aren't the only Marine in this conversation. My wife and brother are also Marines. You sound like you need to go take your meds. You make a lot of presumptions.

[@aldeng3608]

Most of my friends have decided that, since medical care will be virtually nonexistent, if we do have to go in harms way, it's best for us to have as much coverage as possible. Meaning the full size IOTV type vests with full kevlar coverage and full size front, back, and side plates. The thinking is that if we're ever needing to go somewhere sketchy in a scenario like this, we're not gonna be there long, so the extra weight isn't an issue, the vest replacing a ruck in that situation. While the kevlar obviously won't do shit against a rifle round, in our area the majority of the threat is likely handguns and shotguns, which the kevlar will defend against effectively enough. If we're ever having to drive through a sketchy area in some sort of convoy, supply run, etc, obviously we're gonna throw on as much shit as we can find, the arm guards, crotch guards, flak undies, anything. We're not planning on getting into gunfights, but we live in an area that would necessitate driving/walking near some potentially hostile locations in order to get to eachother, so it's best to be prepared. Just my thinking.

[@SilverShamrockNovelties]

High speed party favors that hit bone impart all of their kinetic energy into that bone. The largest bone in the human body is the pelvic bone. It is also not protected by body armor. When at the range, train yourself to aim for the lower 1/3 of your human silhouette targets instead of training to shoot the most heavily protected part of the body.

[@possumpatrol45]

Yep, like my instructor said, a pelvic girdle hit puts the bad guy on the ground right now!

[@kerbalairforce8802]

Shooting someone in the pelvis will but them down, but shooting them in the chest puts them out.

[@SilverShamrockNovelties]

@@kerbalairforce8802 the discussion is about an adversary wearing body armor. Shooting at their bulletproof plate does NOT put them out.

[@aprilk141]

Bro, you had me at civilians should have access to anything pigs or army has access to! Stayed for the objective oriented focus.

[@ivaniuk123]

You briefly hit on this but hard target vs soft target. Sometimes blending in can cause you to be a target for attack because if there is already a group out there to do damage then they may want to hit as many easy targets as they can and add to their metaphorical score card. If you and a group of friends go out looking like a team of tier 1 operators and not be hostile but make it clear that if they screw with you, then they will pay with all the change in their bank account even though your collective experience is CoD and airsoft. That may make people think twice or decide that it isn't worth it, like the Koreans did. Stay hard, be defensive, and be prepared to act.

[@MikeForce111]

It's better to have it and not need it than to... well you get the picture. If you have it and don't need it for a particular situation, you can always sideline it until you do. More options is always a good thing.

[@Ruby_Sterling]

This is reality check

[@freedomsquid7414]

Great information. Thanks for thinking all this out so thoroughly. Awesome channel.

[@Some_dude773]

The being in shape part is definitely where I’m lacking sadly😂 I’m one of those dudes everyone thinks is in shape but body is well aware I’m not😂

[@oldscratch3535]

When everyone is a lard ass, just being not overweight makes everyone else view you as "in shape".

[@michaelolexa4147]

great vid, will agree and disagree, after wearing hard armor for years in the army, it becomes normal, but never fun. totally agree my hard armor would be best for urban area, or fixed site. but mine is 11x14" level 4 with 6x8 side plates, yep with a total load out hitting about 45lb, with a max of 50lb. i will agree, it can suck, but you can get us to it, i remember doing a 10 mile ruck every day, and no i don't do that anymore. what me and the group i'm with, wear it at least one day a month when training.

[@fndkombatant1500]

I've been watched the big boy guntubers and seen the lower teir guys but they're commonly over looked. Came across a few of your videos and I'm hooked. Your easilyon the upper teirs. Thank you for these inputs

[@Soloong_Gaybowzer]

I've found that VISM UHMWP plates are gonna be your best bang for your buck with well rounded stats. Lv3+, weighs less than ceramics, impacted rounds don't spawl like steel plates but is more drop resistant than ceramics also.

[@triplefshooting]

Enjoying the content and perspective. Nice to hear a grounded voice when talking about the incoming bad times.

[@Ir0nF1st924]

This is another reason why I don’t think you should strap all your mags, medical, comms, misc., etc to your plate carrier. Put that stuff in your pockets, on your belt, or in a backpack, because you might need to go without your PC for one reason or another.

[@NoFutureZine]

On the same coin 6ou might need to go without your backpack or belt for some reason or another. Just have situational awareness.

[@ArcanusLibero]

What mission requires hard body armor? We had Antifa invade my neighborhood the night after they burned the town of La Mesa, Ca. 4 of us went out two in armor and two without. We stood down a dozen Antifans with our bright flashlights a tactical advantage, and the desire to back it up with the force level they demanded. They left when they realized we weren't leaving and they were going to die if they assaulted... Those that had armor were glad they had and those that didn't bought it thereafter... When your wife, children, home, and everything you love is only meters behind you, you need every advantage available to go home... Take them...

[@hxdaro]

I think the argument of "Armor keeps you able to be saved by a hospital" goes out the window in this case. If I'm in a gunfight, the world is likely in a state where advanced medial care is hard to come by. If you get bullets hitting your body you're likely not going to survive either way in any sort of advanced society collapse. In SHTF I'd rather have 10 pounds of food and water on me than 10 pounds of ceramic plates.

[@taylormoyer1150]

@brass facts, man you remind e a lot of early Nutnfancy, before he went on tangent tirades. your topics have a common ground and make more sense than most gun channels. thank you for all you do

[@geomardomingo1672]

This alternate reality Nutnfancy video style has gotta keep going. I mean that with the highest level of compliment to you man.

[@BrassFacts]

thanks man

[@jaytowne8016]

Good addressing of the nuances of armor. Roadblock defense/ strongpoint manning .etc

[@IntenseSpirit]

Honestly, this is a point for team grey man. The way most civilians build their carriers nowadays is to load them up with mags, tools, and medical. Then it's "good to go" for SHTF. The problem, though, is that makes it impossible to conceal, you exclude most of the scenarios in which you'll need armor by not wanting to look tactical. I'm of the opinion that you should not go full soldier boy unless you've got 4-5 friends doing the same. My go-to setup is a slick carrier and hoodie. This way, the condition for deployment is the low bar of "I'm worried that theres a higher than normal likelihood of getting shot at." There are plenty of situations where you may need armor but still need to look normal. I have a loaded up chest rig to fast attach to the carrier if I feel the need to go overt. But for the most part my chest rig lives in a sling backpack.

[@moss8702]

Obviously where you are and the scenario will dictate. But in the case of a fool blown collapse. You're gonna want a shitload of mags and medical.

[@jameshanna8762]

Good discussion. For civilian preparedness my armor is for specific case use, mostly stationary, such as LP/OP, home defense, stationary guard post, but also vehicular applications, including ATV travel. As for patrolling and other ground movements, I won't wear it. I'd rather have the speed and mobility. If I am moving dismounted, I'll be spending a majority of any firefight in the prone, where armor is pointless, anyway. Armor is for upright facing the incoming fire for best effectiveness. Stationary and mounted roles fit the bill for armor, as well as for MOUT. Otherwise, I'd rather trade that weight and bulk for more ammo and water. I was Infantry for 23 years in the black boot Army ('82-'05), and the most body armor I was ever issued was old flak vests, and then the Kevlar vests. I retired before I was issued any plate armor rigs. But I saw the value in it, so me and a few other family and neighbors have plate rigs ready, just in case the need arises.

[@lethalbutterknife3409]

Just drove the family from IL to FL and back. Had to stop several times for fuel and bathroom breaks…mostly at night. Wore my plates the entire drive and have no problem saying it. My opinion…world gets crazier daily and I’ll take any advantage I can get. Be safe all

[@themagnificent9296]

You went from one extreme crazy to the next extreme crazy where in both cases the probability of walking into the shit is highly likely... so yeah stay prepared my friend!!

[@lethalbutterknife3409]

@@themagnificent9296 You as well! God bless and be safe

[@yobrodontshoot1130]

Better start wearing a parachute just in case you randomly fall out of an airplane too…

[@lethalbutterknife3409]

@@yobrodontshoot1130 😂😂😂

[@yobrodontshoot1130]

@@Aequitas84 Yeah, if he took fire driving down the road…Why is he the only one protected? 😂

[@mikeweaver2496]

sweet vid. the best thing about wearing armor to me is just having extra mags and things i want to get to fast right on my chest. the plate is a second thought

[@stephencooper5040]

Decorated combat vet here…. EVERY HUMAN has the God given right to own whatever they feel like, for any reason they feel like. The “bro vets” who talk about civilians, which we are now by the way, “larping” just because they’re wearing body armor have forgotten the oath they swore before they went to their training.

[@KoreanGeorge]

I really appreciate your realistic expectations on civilians and urban conflicts

[@dragonstalk86]

hop is like a fucking ent jesus christ as a manlet i'd be terrified to have him chase after me

[@BrassFacts]

he's quite large in person... and yeah he's also quite tall

[@tylerthornton262]

In all honesty, I enjoy your videos the most out of the channels I've been watching lately. Your methodical approach in your videos is very refreshing and sobering. I find a lot of people get tunneled into wanting to buy things from a lot of videos lately. I appreciate everything you've produced so far man.

[@ndalby187]

Have hard armor. In a societal collapse situation you will eventually have to do some direct action work. Remember, there are a lot of people out there whose notion of being prepared means having enough guns and ammo to take what they need from others. Some of them will eventually move into your area, and you're going to want to take them out proactively. If we ever end up in a WROL situation, there's a very strong chance you'll end up in a number of gunfights and it's naive to think you won't receive rifle fire. So in addition to your hard armor, make sure you have enough medical supplies to deal with major trauma and some people with the knowhow to use it.

[@borisptitsyn2130]

great discussion on this topic. as a 2A supporter, solid supporting facts are a good way to calm down emotionally charged convos. also, is that Hop? super cool.

[@bideni408]

Civilians need to have and know how to use the tools that Constitution and bill of rights put in their hands to comply their D U T Y if governmnt turns in tyranny.

[@jjrobiso]

I love your approach to SHTF. Thanks for your opinion. I think a serious discussion-sociological/psychological/political-needs to be had by all the guntubers so that we can have a clearer expectation as to what shtf really mean.

[@baronvonsnazzy3355]

Over the last two years I have seen western governments flirt with authoritarianism. Although America while not perfect in this regard was better then most with the pressure being more social instead of governmental. I can’t help but believe this is because we are an armed and armored populace. It makes the collective voice of the populace more respected. This is why we hold the line and not comply.

[@yobrodontshoot1130]

I’d argue that the citizenry is listened to much more in most other western nations. There isn’t fear of the government because there is no modern precedent for it. There is no fear of random armed criminals because there really isn’t a precedent for it… The world works by evaluating the likelihood of what will happen around you. Now, in America, a normal civilian might need a gun and ballistic vests…But in almost every other Western nation, this idea is as foreign as needing a parachute or life jacket to walk to the store…There’s simply no real precedent for it.

[@epicduckeh6]

Being prior military as infantry, I have extensive experience operating with my full kit on for extended periods of time so it just feels way more natural to me to always have my kit on. I agree however that for the most part, you don't want to seek out engagements. Especially in a SHTF scenario, you're fucked if you get hit unless you know someone who has advance enough medical training to save your ass. Even then, you're crippled for the rest of the time you're alive. Despite that, there's no reason I believe not to wear your kit because a chance of stopping a bullet is better than none. Plus like one of the points outlined in the video, there's a chance people leave you alone if they see you kitted out with a bunch of other kitted out dudes if they're not that desperate. However most likely if someone else sees you first in this kind of situation, you're getting shot at, so a kit could probably stop a bullet if you're lucky. If you're not, it's just not your problem anymore, or at least it's not your problem for long.

[@siegfriedarmory6271]

As far as WROL goes, I think that's the biggest use-case for civilians for armor. The fact that infection and such can kill you even from minor wounds means that anything which gives you a chance of not receiving an injury is a very high-value piece of kit. IMO this actually makes a good argument for something like interceptor vests which protects areas beyond the sort of standard vital areas. I think for a civilian 99% of the time it's better to not wear armor, but in that apocalyptic scenario they should have the maximum coverage they can get.

[@RecreationalSniper]

I love how well thought out and put together your content is. Your channel is going to go far. As long as you don't get burned out...

[@mattbrown5511]

Much of what you said here applies to the "thousands of rounds" guys versus people like me with a few hundred. I have a set of high caliber pistol round vests for me and my small family. I have zero plate carriers. I'm a bit older and not in the best of health (thanks Uncle Sam). If "bug out" becomes a necessity, we will be carrying survival gear, not armor. Water, food, shelter, etc. will be much more important than an extra 25-40 pounds.

[@donsheckler127]

It might depend on the bug out. If by vehicle, it might make sense to bring the armor along. Also in a suburban or urban environment with the possibility of riots, stuff like armor makes sense. If you need to walk up a large hill, leaving it behind makes sense.

[@mattbrown5511]

@@donsheckler127 My actual point is that each person/family has to decide what is in their best interest. There an innumerable amount of variables to consider. What works for my family may 180 degrees from what works for another person/family/group

[@donsheckler127]

@@mattbrown5511 I don't really disagree, although I would say it is very much more situation dependent than it is personal. If the situation is a close range firefight then body armor is important. If it is bugging out hiking over the mountains on foot then the armor is probably dead weight.

[@Opachki69420]

They make plates that are level 4 and weigh 5.5 lbs each, you are doing yourself a disservice ignoring how simply you could save a life by having these things available to you

[@hardymon]

I think this was really insightful, but one time that armor can be useful that was overlooked was live fire training "with the boys." Obviously muzzle and trigger discipline is key, but if you're practicing bounding or other movements and the guy behind stumbles on a root, armor could change a major catastrophic event to just a rough day.

[@Maximus98351]

You don't want a 203 heavy as fuck. You want an m320 that is separate from your rifle.

[@BrassFacts]

no. the m203 is cooler. What's the point of being american if you can't have the Scarface loadout If I wanted practicality I'd asked for a couple dozen AT4's :D

[@Maximus98351]

@@BrassFacts Well then you have to wear that classy suit with the knife collar while you use it. It is a requirement.