A common and potentially dangerous problem faced by backpackers

[@jK-yj2tl]

Well Done… Thank you !

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Glad you liked it and thanks a million for watching!

[@thomasvanetten1984]

I hiked about a third of the AT last year and got turned around on trail once in NY (fortunately there was someone coming in the opposite direction after just a few minutes to set me straight again). Coming away from a shelter in NJ in pouring rain I became uncertain as to the correct direction until I literally looked down in front of my feet and saw a arrow made of sticks pointing in the nobo direction. I think about the story of the woman in Maine on the AT that was lost (fatally) every time I take a bathroom break on trail, it’s no trivial consideration!

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Yes, if Geraldine Largay had checked a compass before leaving the trail she might still be with us. Thanks for sharing and thanks a million for watching!

[@frankynodots]

Very good advice as always.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Thank you sir! Good to see you again and thanks yet again for being a great viewer!

[@Spearmanmark]

Great discussion! Thanks for once again reminding us that we cannot blindly count on everything always being OK.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

You're welcome, and thanks again for being a great viewer!

[@brianherber7998]

Your content is always great! I think your channel was the first one I ever subscribed to. I'm currently recovering from a small collection of personal catastrophes and planning my next AT section hike, probably in the fall of 25, definitely in NC. Your videos always make me want to pack a loaf of bread and some tea and jump over the back fence, or whatever that quote is.

[@brianherber7998]

Seriously, it's always such a morale boost to see a new video from you in my feed.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Hope you have a great hike and thanks again for being a great subscriber!

[@merritt2122]

Many thanks to you for helping to keep us safe! Learn to use and trust your compass, people.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Glad you liked the video and thanks a million for watching!

[@stephenwright3501]

I have done 4 section hikes on the AT and got lost on every one. I even went in the wrong direction on the Potomic for 4 miles. I look forward to your next video.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Thanks for sharing and thanks again for being a great subscriber!

[@markseay4930]

Glad to see you posting videos again. My GF has posted videos of our thru hike of the Allegheny Trail in West Virginia and the ALT, as it is known, may be closer to you is you are coming from Ohio and may be more convenient for you to drive to. Unfortunately the northern most section has a lot of road walking walking and you would have to drop down to thr area around Blackwater State park to get some mostly backwoods hiking in.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Every time I've driven to the AT, I've passed a sign for that trail. Maybe someday I'll get on it! Thanks for the info and thanks for being a viewer!

[@morg52]

Why not have a black dot on the white blazes? A black dot near the top of the blaze for north bound, a black dot near the bottom of the Blaze for south bound. On divergent trails the dot on top for towards the trail, the dot on bottom for away from the trail.

[@morg52]

@@brumleytown1882 The side trail idea might be too complicated, maybe instead of a dot, a bar across the blaze for trails that intersect the main trail

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

@morg52 That's a pretty good idea. Whether all the volunteer clubs who do the real work to keep the AT passable could get such a thing done in a timely manner, we can only guess. And thanks a million for watching!

[@SectionHikingTheAT]

Absolutely true! This experienced hiker casually meandered off trail and ran into people riding horses and thought, …” funny, don’t they know horses aren’t allowed on the AT?” That being said, I needed to defer to AllTrails to get myself back to the AT without doubling back. But otherwise, the rule is this- if you don’t see a white blaze- turn around. Retrace your steps on your current trail until you find an AT sign with a white blaze. The 2nd time I lost the trail was on a series of switch-backs. It’s not much fun climbing on all fours trying to reach the trail again on the top of a mountain because that’s where you are assuming it is…..using a compass solves lots of problems! Thanks Flatbrokeoutside for another much-needed video! I sure hope to run into you on trail someday. 😎

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Thanks for sharing! Keep hiking and thanks again for being a great viewer!

[@paulrevere2379]

I love how you phrased your comment "I lost the trail" with the clear context of you findingit again in short order. A person who themselves is lost is potentially a much more serious problem to themselves and others. imo this doesn't happen when they leave the trail, but when they leave the trailhead without a sense of situational awareness. Then when their electronic gizmo no longer functions or they step off trail then they suddenly panic. With those ppl it's more a matter of when rather than if they will become aware of their perpetual state of lost confusion.

[@daven.7685]

Great advice, as always. If I have to leave the trail, or wander out of camp, I set a waypoint on my Garmin InReach. You can then navigate back to the waypoint. It works best in “clear sky” situations, so it may not be the best solution in every situation.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Thanks for sharing and thanks again for being a great viewer!

[@wisenber]

An analogue compass is a big ask for the last two generations growing up with their phone welded to them. Almost as big as a paper map.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Agreed. Let's hope they always have a good signal. And thanks for watching!

[@TheRealJerseyJoe]

Great advice as always !

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

And thanks again for being a great viewer!

[@wev3860]

If I’m hiking or backpacking, I’ll take with me a thin reflective cord about 200ft long so I can trace myself back to the trail for sure, it would be a lifesaver and only about 3oz extra on my pack

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Now that is an inventive idea! My compliments. And thanks for watching!

[@paulrevere2379]

One time among the trail trash I collected was a couple of colored plastic clothes pins. These stayed with me beyond several garbage can spots. I would not quite call them essential kit, but they were very convenient markers. Leaving trash behind is never cool, but a lot of it has uses for thoughtfully creative hikers. This would include the shiney insides of potato chip bags, and other bits of rubbish. If you have a compass any maker becomes useful for shooting a quick and easy back azimuth once you are 20 to 50 paces off trail just so you know your basic direction of travel and the more important basic direction to go to get back on the trail.

[@Twobarpsi]

So many people underestimate the AT. I love hiking, but know my own personal limitations. Some are, I don't like to get wet, and can't go a day without a shower. So I could never through hike. I also don't have the willpower to accomplish such an incredible feat. The AT is mostly portrayed as an easy stroll with a group of friends. Videos like this sir, are realistically honest, without any sugar coating!

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Yes, there isn't much sugar coating once we get on the AT! :) Thanks again for being a great viewer!

[@Twobarpsi]

@@flatbrokeoutside6921 I always enjoy watching your videos, and your no nonsense approach to the outdoors!

[@paulrevere2379]

Much of it is easy...until it isn't, but mostly such a hike is just uncomfortable. Trail grime, dirt, sweat, and sometimes tears and blood are part of the experience. One of the great ironies is that the rich tourist hiker type (a significant chunk of modern hikers) is more likely to be filthy in between luxury resupply/lodging towns than the veteran old school backpacker who frequently practices field hygeine. This does not mean a luxury shower, but it does mean actually practicing specific cleanliness chores. The top ones for me are hand washing and washing my pot being very careful to keep all wash water very far away from natural water sources. These chores take time and effort that tourist hikers tend to shun. As for me I see them, not as a glitch that interrupts the game, but as a feature, just like the campfire I build almost every chance I get.

[@tomconnor2529]

What I have done if I have to leave a trail is wait until I am on a single faced slope and go up the hill . The trail is always down hill to me . But , yes , I will always take a compass on a long hike .

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Good idea, going only uphill! Thanks for sharing and thanks for watching!

[@xPumaFangx]

Yup I will carry one for now on.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Outstanding! Keep hiking and thanks a million for watching!

[@michaelbrent8351]

Can't say I had these issues on my thru, but I have missed turns during ultramarathons or hiking on unmaintaned trail systems.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Thanks for watching!

[@Billlovelace4171951]

I always carry 2 compasses also 2 flash lights. It is all too easy to be delayed for some unforeseen reason. I have had to make my way back to the parking area in the dark many times.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Great tip! Thanks for sharing and thanks again for being a viewer!

[@paulrevere2379]

Small fairly cheap flashlights that take 3 AAA are so lightweight now that I just think of them as my spare battery holders, the batteries making up the vast majority of the weight with several major bonus features.

[@David-e1b3t]

The "outvoted by 2 compasses" thing is real. I've done it

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Thanks for backing me up and thanks a million for watching!

[@paulrevere2379]

Great example of the rule that "Two is one and one is none" Survival blades and fire-making kit are the other two big ones.

[@rutabagasteu]

I have a compass, bought it at Wal-Mart. I even know how to use it.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

That's the spirit we like around here! And thanks again for being a great viewer!

[@goodwaterhikes]

😎👍

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Thanks for watching!

[@danielfegley2735]

200 feet off the trail sounds like a long distance to me, I can be in someone's yard within a 100-foot or less 20 feet behind a large tree or bush should be good enough so long as your not up hill from a stream .

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

I think most people agree that's realistic advice. And thanks for watching!

[@paulrevere2379]

That really depends on #1 or #2, and I suggest not doing #1 on an actual tree in many places because critters will chew anything and everything that you leave your salt behind on. Hikers should remember that these are MINIMUM distances for where to relieve yourself, and that if you aren't willing to abide by those basic courtesies then maybe you should just stay home.

[@baroque9983]

I have a couple of analog compasses, but what scares me is addressing declination and the risk of either forgetting about that, or setting it backwards on the compass and then having the landmarks grossly conflicting from the map. I am used to being so close to the 0 line, that I don't need to worry about it for general use. However, we are moving to the Puget Sound area in WA, where they have a reasonable high declination of 15 Deg 8' East, (which seems highly variable depending on the source asked, and the age of the source). That gets really confusing. One thing though, even if you forget about the declination entirely and are heading off the trail for a potty break, you can still use the cardinal direction based on your red needle to navigate into the woods, and travel in the opposite direction back to the trail, as long a you are not trying to get exact information from a map. I agree that I need to take a formal class in navigation - for the lessons on declination if for no other reason.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

One thing we can do is buy a compass that allows us to set declination on the compass. This is not exactly a simple procedure. I advocate practicing it at home. The following link shows how to set such a compass. What the link fails to emphasize is that once the declination is set, we line up the needle with the compass N -- which we adjusted -- and then use an arrow on the baseplate for our readings. I believe this can become clear if we work with such a compass for maybe 30 minutes at home. One detail about big compasses with baseplates is that they are almost always liquid filled, and if a big air bubble develops inside the compass, it might not give us an accurate reading quickly. When that happens, I vote to junk it and buy a new one. Also following is the link to my map reading video. Start watching at about the six minute mark and you'll hear a couple of very important details pointed out in the course I took. And thanks for watching! DECLINATION LINK -- www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/compass-declination.html --- VIDEO LINK -- kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH-yZIKMZrCci6M

[@paulrevere2379]

For simple trail-hiking you will not usually need to convert for declination if you are just using a compass alone. This assumes that you are not hiking in Alasks. I would say for sure take the full navigation course before going out there. One of the biggest things is maintaining a sense of where north is at all times. 15 degrees either way is still pretty small in that regard. Even 30 degrees off would still get you in the correct general direction. Most people who get dangerously lost are those with zero directional awareness or worse, a totally wrong sense, not merely an issue of precision.

[@paulrevere2379]

My common compass dillemma is this: There are adequate budget priced compasses out there, but I have found that these don't hold up under frequent use which to me usually means on a cord around my neck or attached to my waist pack. There are better, more durable compasses but they are expensive and sometimes heavier than really needed. One of these days I hope to add some of those extra steps that I always run out of time for like using clear nail polish on some of the painted on compass markings. Preventing breakage is the other issue. I am open to tips for this, but the key is to not make accessing the compass any harder than having it reachable by ether hand while on the move.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

I might be a clumsy klutz, but -- To be honest with you, looking at a compass while walking is something I wouldn't do, simply because it would increase the risk I'd trip on something and fall down on the AT. This is mainly because of all the big and really big rocks right on the trail. Even when paying attention, I've had to use my trekking poles to keep me upright hundreds of times. Even loose dirt can be slippery on the AT hills. I won't even take a drink of water without stopping briefly. HAVING SAID ALL THAT -- Coghlan's and other companies make ball-shaped transparent compasses we can pin on our shirt, for example. Or our shirt sleeve! All we'd have to do is look down. I see them as low as a couple bucks online in 2024. We can carry more than one for backup. I have had to put aside expensive flat compasses because they develop an air bubble that throws off the reading. An air bubble won't throw off the reading of a ball compass. Hope this helps and thanks for watching.

[@paulrevere2379]

@flatbrokeoutside6921 Thanks. There are some brands that do tend to be too cheap even for my level of impovershment, but the idea is not a bad one. The bubble issue is spot on and makes me wonder bc I don't think this was as common in the past. Multi-tasking while moving is something expected of a proficient USMC grunt btw. This includes the hours of darkness. With practice, skilled feet become even more reliable than one's eyes. I can typically stay on a trail in total darkness even if I've not been there before. A headlamp sometimes just creates weird shadows that are worse than darkness. Stretches of the AT with serious roots, rocks and incline are extra tough of course. To a veteran navigator a long steady slope alone is a major navigation feature that can be used in determining one's location and direction if one has a map and sufficient skills that are rare these days but still attainable. Riddle: When is a tourist hiker who relies on electronics lost in the woods? Ans: When are they not lost?

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

Good riddle! I respect your military training and service, sir. Yet when it comes to civilian hikers, I tend to emphasize safety above all else. Because the hikers often will not. I created google alerts for lost, missing and deceased hikers, and it's a shock how often this happens in a single month. I am inclined to think a number of them wander far off roads with spontaneity, or impulsively, and get into a mess they can't get out of. It depresses me, but I'm not sure anybody can do anything to prevent these incidents.

[@1strights]

✨🕊✨

[@paulrevere2379]

What is the difference between an ordeal and an adventure? Hint: It has little or nothing to do with the difficulty of the conditions.

[@flatbrokeoutside6921]

True. And thanks for watching!

[@chrisftp1312]

[@gnohn9366]

Great to see another one if your videos.