A Computer Science Degree is (Mostly) A BAD Decision

Thinking about going (back?) to college to get a Computer Science degree? Think it will help you get ahead? Think it will help you land the job quicker and thus kickstart a more solid career?
Well in this video, I want to share why I think computer science degrees (and really most college degrees (in 2023 and beyond) are a bad idea overall.
This video is not to bash CS degrees overall, but more to look at the overall scope of college degrees and why they can, more times than not, do more harm than good, including CS degrees.
What do you think? Would love to hear your comments below.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:10 2 Exceptions
01:59 Disclaimers
02:30 COST
04:43 The Alternatives
05:35 Degree Indecisions
06:08 No longer required
07:05 Times have changed
07:49 How to be self-taught
08:41 Outro
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[@tyanqt]

While getting a CS or engineering degree doesn't guarantee you a job, a degree from a well-known university will open more doors for you than a bootcamp or being self-taught. There is, for sure, a difference between you will learn in school vs what you do on the job. However, I think it's definitely worth thinking about survivorship bias. The people who are self-taught or did bootcamps and are successful are the ones you'll see posting on the internet, you rarely see anyone posting who didn't find success - just something to think about. Overall, interesting points!

[@cesarHPM91]

Also forgot to mention the fact that bootcamps and such won't really close a 4 year gap from a degree, I have worked with a lot people who were on the field, most being from college, and the self taughts needed a lot more time to get up to pace and a lot more problems while adapting

[@ilovetech8341]

Most people do not care where you went to school.

[@tyanqt]

@@ilovetech8341 I agree once you get the job, but the problem is getting the first job. Most well-known universities have really good campus recruiting to help new grads get jobs - career fairs, networking events, company visits, on-campus interviews, hackathons, etc., that you don't get if you don't go to a good school. Otherwise, you're stuck applying online randomly where your resume is in a pile with another 1000 people

[@Minerva578]

Yeah i'm part of Harvard, i'm Harvard bla bla yada yada. Cut that out.

[@xnadave]

At 28, I did community college for two years, did very well, get a scholarship to a four-year university. Since I had already been coding professionally for 10 years, I chose Electrical Engineering instead of CS. I managed to complete the degree while working full time, and the (partial, but generous) scholarship kept my total cost to about $20k at a well-known and respected private university. I established relationships with my professors that led to a master's degree that was 100% covered by research grants. My path certainly isn't for everyone, but, in my case, it was totally worth it. Now that I'm middle-aged, the degrees have opened up a lot of opportunities that I wouldn't otherwise have had. The extra math in EE vs CS has really come in handy.

[@chrisnortonjr]

Im on the same path

[@xnadave]

@@chrisnortonjrGet it done! It's a ton of work, but it's worth it. I thought about quitting a few times. I'm glad I didn't. You got this.

[@chrisnortonjr]

Thanks man it's definitely been a struggle.@@xnadave

[@hhjhj393]

What I don't like about any path is that it requires someone giving you something. In your instance you were able to impress your professors which gained you a grant. I wish there were foolproof ways for people to survive. I am not a fan of a person only being able to survive by the hands of others. I am not saying there is anything wrong with connection, but survival shouldn't be dependent on it.

[@simonabunker]

It may be possible to learn the skills you need without a degree, but it is going to be a hell of a lot harder to convince employers that. Places may say you don't need a degree, but it is a recognised standard that everyone understands. It is also pretty much required if you ever want to work abroad. The other advantages of higher education are the access to staff and peers it provides - it is much harder doing it on your own without that support network. University friends also tend to be people you keep in touch with for life - as you self selected the same interests. The main thing it gives you is time to learn these skills - sure you can take a sabbatical, but it is totally up to you to fund and motivate yourself. Complete self study may be (debatably) monetarily cheaper, but in many ways it is the harder option - that won't necessarily be appreciated by employers.

[@user-zm1rq6xj9v]

Same with marketing. I have worked in marketing for 2 years, which I got by luck. Yet most other marketing jobs I applied for want a degree.

[@youknowkbbaby]

Some people are just accustomed to the classroom environment. Being self taught isn't for everyone.

[@tranndeetech]

While you have points, what you are saying misses the overall point. It is not just self-studying code. He also is saying embark on legitmate projects, work on soft skills (communicating), apply to (try over and over) at a bunch of different places... these are the same things you do in college. Why not do them for less than the cost of tution, some of the distractions that are not helpful, and years of student loan debt. That said, I went to university in the 80s like many of my friends (who did not use their degrees), then ended up in IT despite not taking a single class in engineering. I got in to IT through my interest and hours I put in at home, my personality, and circumstance. University is for Higher Learning--analysis, experimentation, advancing the science. This is different than Application: the use and refining the use of an area. Conversely, my son was not interested in college, but I did start teaching him coding in elementary school (there are so many great learning programs for children) and he has done a ton of projects on his own and with groups. He is making more than I did at his age. There are a lot more factors at play than just a college degree.

[@dianne2446]

Not really. So many people in computer science fields don’t have degrees and were self-taught. Don’t mistaken having the skills and talent with needing a degree. Even some universities require students to study/learn by themselves. Work also requires you to learn by yourself on the job sometimes. A lot of people graduate from college and don’t use the material they learned. So if you don’t understand how to pick up the subject after 4 years of college or even after a couple of classes, the field probably isn’t for you.

[@clocksun]

Nonsense. Having certifications is better than a degree. As a guy who hires, I pay no attention to CS degrees. Most are worthless. Too many losers cheat and copy homework. I want to see MSFT certifications (preferably) and will give the candidate a project to do and submit in 1 week. If I like the work, I make an offer. If I don't, trash .. next.

[@kevinsouza7744]

Good luck getting hired in 2023 without a degree.

[@TheSuperSangan]

Military service works pretty well with relevant experience in the field. I have a degree and work with a lot of young guys who did IT in the military and they get hired quick but then again we are doing gov contracts.

[@GabrielGasp]

I did.

[@TravisMedia]

Good luck with a lifetime of debt you didn’t need to take on.

[@trappedcat3615]

I got a job with no degree. Never thought I would. I made my work public and kept at it. Somehow, I was sought out, given an offer and skipped whole application process.

[@trappedcat3615]

That said. I do see value in taking college courses or online college certification. Anything to highlight you are passionate about learning. The full degree is not what makes you stand out from every other applicant.

[@jayrock9351]

Getting a degree in Computer Science, Engineering or IT related fields is definitely NOT A BAD decision. Besides, a CS degree is not equivalent to knowing programing.

[@TravisMedia]

What points did you disagree with?

[@romaneaugustin2462]

You can't be serious. Do you know how much programming, Homeworks, projects a CS student must complete before graduation?

[@Imetalh]

Think of a CS degree as a degree where you get taught every topic that relates to computer system

[@romaneaugustin2462]

@@ImetalhAh, gotta. No, it's the science of computers. You study the history of computers, lots of maths, hardware, software, databases, algorithms, computer vision, data structures, programming languages, operating systems, circuits, software engineering, and a bunch other stuff. It is a very good degree for undergraduate. You can go deeper in any field after that. From databases to software engineering, machine learning, computer/electrical/mechanical/electronics engineering and so many other fields. I am guessing these are the reasons compagnies kind of like the CS degrees sometimes. Though it has a heavy programming section, you also study lots of other related topics that helps you make better programming decisions. At least that is my take on it.

[@manofsteel9051]

​@romaneaugustin2462 lol any good CS degree will be mostly math-based. Remember you're studying computer science, not programming

[@satysin630]

This is why I am grateful to live in Europe as all of what you talk about is very much an American problem. Getting good higher education here is essentially free and the networking advantages you get through the university system is well worth it. I do find it kinda insane how much it costs in America.

[@adrimathlener8008]

It depends, if you go to university (in the Netherlands) it's only $2700 per year. But you need housing & food. So it's either paid by the parent)s) or live at home and travel to uni or you take out a student load and work on the side. After 4 years you might a debt up to $35.000 Still doing it all by yourself and put in a year of work and walk the path Travis described is a far more affordable way. But it comes down to discipline and that's not alway easy if you take the path described by Travis.

[@satysin630]

@@adrimathlener8008 Yeah it isn't all roses and perfect in Europe but even finishing with 35k of debt and a good education and degree is still a hell of a lot better than 200+k like I see in the US. The self-taught route is of course the cheapest way but you do miss out on a lot of soft-skill development, networking opportunities, connections with businesses that have a relationship with the university, etc. Not to mention it is structured and like you say not everyone has the discipline especially when they're 18 or 19. If you're looking at a career change in your late 20s or even later as you realise you need it then self-learning is certainly the way I would attempt it first as hopefully by that age you have figured out self-discipline a bit better than a decade earlier 😁

[@feranmiawotubo9288]

@@satysin630I'm 18 and I'm a web designer, in six month I'll be a software engineer. It all boils down to how much you want it. I've been learning to code passively for about 4 years now but actively about 2 years. If you want to be a programmer because they make a lot of money then you cannot make it I'm very certain of that. But if you're doing it for fun and because you love doing it, that's all you need I've been learning to code for a while now even though i just got a pc not so long ago, there was a time I was using this vivo phone that didn't even support the simplest text editor and I'll have to write my code on paper then type them back into an online compiler or interpreter(And that was c++). I learnt like that for about 3 - 4 months before I could finally save up enough to get a budget smartphone that supported decent compilers and interpreters, even so it wasn't easy but I didn't stop right now I'm in a 1 year free online course for software engineering. And all this while not until about 3 month ago I never thought of it as a career choice, I wanted to be a Mechanical Engineer. But now, I've decided I'm gonna get my certificate as a software engineer then use the money I gain from working to sponsor myself to college. If I did it all because of money I'll have given up a long time ago

[@plaidchuck]

$200k is for ivy leagues and other big rep schools. Most public univesities will cost you about 40k if you graduate on time

[@HCforLife1]

@@adrimathlener8008in Poland it's free. A lot of people are getting scholarships or cheap affordable housing

[@pankybakesandcooks426]

I have a little over 3 years professional experience as a self-taught mobile dev and have been stuck on whether or not I should get a degree. Reason being, I've only worked for start-ups and I have a goal of working for a Fortune 500, but I feel my resume gets filtered out or something without that Comp Sci BA. But you are right, it's not worth going into so much debt, I think I do need to get better at networking.

[@IamFrancoisDillinger]

Look into community colleges, there are decent scholarships for students who earn an associates then transfer to a local University. I had several friends having to take out loans for school when they could have gotten the same scholarships I did but they never researched it.

[@BallersCove]

Traditionally, going from Start-ups to Fortune 500s is challenging, but it's doable. It appears that you feel like you're being overlooked because you don't have the Com Sci BA. In that case, you may want to consider GT's Masters in Com Sci. (assuming you already have a degree from a 4-year institution), But GT's MA in Com Sci is insanely cheap (less than 7k for the entire program). You'll get to learn from some highly respected Computer Scientists. I had to take some prep courses before entering the program due to my transition into Com Sci, but your path may be different because you already have programming experience.

[@JegErN0rsk]

Developers with years of experience talking about going back to school are the weirdest to me. People go to college for one reason- to get a job. You made it. 4 years of additional work experience > a Bachelors. You're also loosing out on salary and salary growth for 4 years. Climb the ladder by upgrading your job and youll get there.

[@ordohereticus]

@@JegErN0rsk Senior Software Engineer at a Big 4 firm and I disagree. I'm currently working on a CS degree simply because I can't get any more promotions (not raises, promotions) without one. Once you reach a certain level you definitely need a degree if you want a better position. That being said, I definitely would not quit working to go to school.

[@JegErN0rsk]

@@ordohereticus Getting a degree on the side is a great decision. If an university allows me, I will do the same once I get a couple of years of experience. Quitting your job to go to school, however, makes no sense. We agree. Congrats by the way. I am surprised to hear. I know plenty of self taught in the highest of positions

[@victoriagevara8223]

Thank you for this - I’ve been struggling with what I should do 1. Because I work full time and my current job requires a lot of time so I am able to keep a roof over my head and all other responsibilities I have to give attention to. I’m starting with khan academy and code academy to get my feet wet (because I’m a newbie) and find it extremely difficult to make time to go to school. I’m at a loss because 50% of people say it’s better to acquire a cs degree and the other 50% say I don’t need it just put it the work to self teach and give yourself time etc etc .. I’ll accept that it may take me longer or I’d have to prove myself more without a cs degree but I just want to make sure it’s not mandatory if I don’t. I find degrees extremely valuable and I look up to those who do have a cs degree however If I’m being true to myself and this is my own individual circumstance . I don’t find it feasible. Mostly for sanity reasons and not wanting so much debt. I’m not trying to land a cs job immediately right after I learn one language and call myself a software engineer. I understand it’ll require time and knowledge but I guess my question is with that understanding I just want to make sure that in the future I’ll be able to get a good career out of it lol

[@korg47237]

Online accelerates universities, notably WGU, is in my opinion the best budget option for a degree. I got my Cloud Computing bach in 2 semesters and only 9k debt that I already paid off, and my friend got his CS degree in 4. We're both making six figures so it speaks for itself.

[@dryaserdryaser]

Hey, I am planning to enroll in the cloud computing degree this Janurary at WGU. Can you tell me how you landed your first job? I have no IT experience and I know that Cloud Computing is not entry level.

[@vitalyl1327]

Since when "cloud computing" is a science?!?

[@kevinkasp]

I’m with you on this. My son dropped out of his mechanical engineering degree program at a major university in June and switched to WGU to get a degree in cyber security. He’s on track to complete it within two six month cycles. And their computer science bachelor’s degree program is now accredited by ABET, which is the best accreditation there is in the engineering world.

[@MinisterRedPill]

​@@vitalyl1327😂 cyber degrees are just as worthless. If someone applies to a cloud job with a CS degree and they're compared to someone with a "cloud" degree. I can imagine that the CS degree will be the winner

[@adrimathlener8008]

@@MinisterRedPill So try to aquire job experience to compete better against a CS degree

[@BekiTMBTI]

It depends on where you live. Online people are saying don’t go to college but look at most job searches & they want people with a degree. If you work for yourself you don’t need a degree but then you need capital to start a business. And success doesn’t happen overnight.

[@SAbre5311]

Any recruiter worth their salt will say "or equivalent experience" ontop of also still looking in a degree holders experience. Experience trumps degree everytime. 4 years worth, and its a landslide!

[@BekiTMBTI]

@@SAbre5311 it really depends. If they can’t retain employees then they will take someone w/o a degree.

[@93truewill]

You need a degree in this economy.

[@marchebbo124]

as someone who had 2 years of experience before joining university, data structures and algorithms are very hard to learn on your own.

[@randomfellow1483]

Do I need to learn them for software engineering or cs as a whole?

[@LiberaMeFromH]

@@randomfellow1483 You practically learn DS and Algos when learning a programming language anyways, but its good to understand the why, what, when, when and where to use them. So in a way yes you will need to learn them.

[@Cal827]

BS your just saying that to get rid of the competition

[@velins4632]

TBH go to community college first, college allows you to network and meet peers and socialize while learning, also having a degree is better than not having one, and it generally takes 4 years which is really not a lot of time in the grand scheme of things. I am going to a community college for the basics for CS and it is really not that expensive compared to going to a well known 4 year university that most people go to for the name of it, also I know plenty of people that regret not going to college because it is a good place to make friends and meet people on similar journeys, tbh studying on my own SUCKED because the only communities are primarily online and discord which isnt that much fun tbh

[@MrValsung]

wouldn't community college essentially delay the amount of time you would have to invest anyway?

[@velins4632]

@@MrValsung You can do the basics for college and intro to programming courses so your still progressing and learning while having the ability to network and get into internships

[@halea41]

The only problem with degree, even an AA from a community college, is they’ll stuff you with lots of maths. At my JC, you’ll be looking at all the calculus classes, linear algebra, and differential equations.

[@velins4632]

@@halea41 I agree that it is a lot of math and if you want to be a web developer than college may not be necessary, but it you want to actually be a software engineer and create algos and fully understand things like cryptography than math is necessary, I also think knowing higher level concepts and math is good especially since web development is something that can be automated to a point especially in the future

[@IamFrancoisDillinger]

Look into scholarships. I graduated with an A.S. and B.S. in CS with only $2k out of pocket TOTAL. Idk where you are going to college but if you're in the US then see if your Community College has Phi Theta Kappa, its a CC honor society and joining them got me an academic scholarship when I transferred to a local University that paid half my tuition....and I only needed a 3.2 to qualify, which shouldn't be a problem. Also, some local Universities will have scholarships for students who transfer after earning an A.S. at a local CC. I had several friends take out student loans when they could have done the same thing but they never researched it.

[@TheCasou]

Telling people to not pursue higher education in this economy is such bad advice.

[@exist140]

telling people to go 200k in debt for a higher education that doesnt mean anything in this economy, is such bad advice

[@user-yr6xc7gg8q]

I agree

[@Vlad-qr5sf]

@@exist140 he just told that the avg is $10k per year, $40k for 4 years, but truth is with financial aid, you will max need $10k over 4 years

[@Forty8-Forty5-Fifty8]

@@exist140 how am I supposed to take you seriously if you don't even do the basic modicum of research to know that a CS degree is not 200k... BSc would have costed me 32k if I were paying out of pocket, except I had scholarships so I actually ended up getting paid to go to school...

[@MaxJoplin]

"Telling people not to accrue debt in the worst economy in decades is such bad advice" Does it make sense when you say it out loud CS isn't even a software engineering degree. It's general, and basic. Find any university and read over the courses. Learn what you need to get the job you want. Especially in this economy. If you don't know what you want to do, go to college. We may end up in the same position, but I'll have more money than you.

[@bjiggs01]

Agree with a lot of what you're saying but this was my experience... I graduated college with a non-CS engineering degree but quickly decided I'd made a mistake and would rather be a Software Developer. ...so, I jumped ship, "learned to code" (although I already knew a lot) and luckily found a company to give me an opportunity. I absolutely considered myself self-taught at that point and I was very successful for the first few years. ...but after a while I realized I just seemed to be missing some things that really-good CS grads knew. So, I went back to school for a Masters. Fortunately, by that point, I could MAKE MY EMPLOYER PAY FOR IT. Anyway, I discovered the things I was missing were basically the boring, but important, crap nobody wants to learn on their own without being forced to. Are you really gonna take the time to learn the difference between an O(n log n) algorithm and an 0(n^2) algorithm on your own? Probably not. But knowing that stuff takes you to the next level....if that's what you're after.

[@waynelast1685]

can you please comment what is the real story regarding being able to work remotely? How prevalent is it? Are there particular companies, subject matter, and technologies that are more allowed? If someone's sole objective is working remotely is that easy, medium difficult or more difficult? Or anything else you think is important to mention. thanks

[@m3dia_offline]

I love watching your vides, currently self teaching myself Python, can't agree more, but this verifies a lot for me.

[@zalty8556]

bro why do people say a degree is 216k public state schools are like 15-18k a year but i think colleges biggest downfall is the useless classes you have to take you already took in highschool such as humanities and english etc

[@TravisMedia]

15 x 4 = 60K + interest over 25 years. Not 216, but more than a enough to keep one a slave to debt throughout their prime years

[@AnotherDayattheDock]

They are even cheaper like 1k a semester and can be even cheaper if u get ur AA at a cc then transfer to an instate uni

[@kvonation8852]

I agree, the humanities courses like hist, eng, and comm are unnecessary but they wont change it

[@kevinkasp]

Western Governor’s University. $4,200 per six month term. ABET accredited for their computer science major, which is the best there is in accreditation for engineering fields. At WGU you go at your own pace. I don’t know anyone doing their programs that doesn’t complete at least two traditional semesters per six month period and the vast majority complete three. That means for about $13,000 in eighteen months of year-round study you can have both the skills and an accredited degree. I think it’s great.

[@Forty8-Forty5-Fifty8]

my bsc would have cost me 32k, but was free with scholarships

[@Arrayonex]

I am staying in college since my financial aid is completely able to cover my college costs. I also would like to have a guided path towards being knowledgeable in computer science. I am self teaching myself other things like Blender and Unreal since my dream job would be an animator or game developer. If those things do not work out, I would have a computer science degree to fall back on.

[@coding9409]

I really don't think it takes 1 year. It takes 2-3 years of practice 40+ hours a week to get a job. I spent 3 years an average of 10 hours a day 6 days a week self teaching before I felt comfortable enough to start interviewing.

[@halea41]

I guess it depends on aptitude. I’m definitely of the 2-3 year variety. I know people who just gets it and learns much fast tho.

[@coding9409]

@@halea41 Although, I was studying full stack development which I think is more work. I was also learning and integrating Docker into my project.

[@Carlospenamusic1]

how did your interviews go, did you get a job?

[@coding9409]

@@Carlospenamusic1 I interviewed with 5 companies. I made it to the final interview for some of them. The 5th company hired me and I have been working there for 2 years. It was a much easier getting a job at a giant company than a startup because startups are picky. Due to my long efforts in self teaching, I am the best developer on my team and anyone that wrote code for the projects before me.

[@sciencefic666]

love your videos you are the light for the people for their futures. Amazing.

[@thumpertorque_]

I've been hearing the software field is extremely hard to find a job at now days and people can't even get an interview after thousands of applications. Maybe I'll just get my CDL license and drive trucks which is more physically challenging but the fastest way to start earning close to a 6 figure salary.

[@passportbro904]

I started my data science degree 4 weeks ago after self learning to code by myself for 14 months. Im so happy i did, im only in my 4th week at university and we're already discussing things like databases and sql, before i decided to go to university i heard negative thing's like self learning is better (which it may be i agree) they dont teach you relevant things etc, i can confirm that is a lie. Yes i self taught myself to code in python and that was a great ultimate boost to start uni, ive basically started my first class as one of the top students (only after 4 weeks) so i think a mix of the 2 is vital, im 37 and plan on being a junior data scientist within a year. Just do it guys, save stress of being rejected just because u dont have a degree. Plus i only paid £20,000 for my 3 year data science degree here in London and the government paid for it via the student finance loan. University is very structured allowing you to feel your doing each step perfectly, but im also doing a data science bootcamp alongside it so ill always be ahead of whatever university throw at me. Be smart 🤓

[@Maldroid]

Fortunately, I have the advantage of parents who covered a significant portion of my educational expenses. Originally, I was pursuing Computer Science, but I found the coding and math too tough, so I switched my major to Information Systems instead.

[@TravisMedia]

Thats awesome!

[@felixmakinda7689]

You saved yourself mentally and I'm sure you got more.

[@joshi1q2w3e]

Problem with Zero To Mastery is for some courses they don’t always keep their courses up to date….

[@TravisMedia]

I think they do a good job at it. The frameworks and skills in this industry change and update so rapidly it’s hard to continually monitor all the changes. In fact I feel like by the time you finish making an entire course it will have already felt outdated 😂

[@user-we6fh2wy5q]

Thank you for sharing these insights. Im 40 and been wanting to go for a career change into tech from construction. College is the natural path to go. This helps give some perspective.

[@frosties1123]

Im starting college next year and luckily I will have my tuition entirely paid for by scholarships and theres a high chance i will receive federal aid for housing and other costs due to my financial situation. It pays to excel in high school and my advice to others is if you plan to pursue the degree, opt for a public state school because they are far cheaper and will usually give you just as good of an education from what ive heard/seen

[@LiberaMeFromH]

Aside from my one CS cert I got for free just by going to a trade school that was offering free enrollment before age 20 I'd say that college is a huge waste of time when you realize that a majority of the classes aren't even really necessary for programming, they're just huge time sinks, and you can learn just as much if not more theory for CS online for free now, and with technology rapidly expanding with things like AI by the time you get done with college you'd still be behind because most colleges maybe only teach you about AI before 2022 and possibly touch on chatGPT where its easier than ever to learn from home even without the latest GPU processors. This is also coming from someone who only recently got back into programming after dropping out of community college and taking an almost 6 year hiatus.

[@robyee3325]

Well said

[@melancholicsmile5575]

Hi Travis, I have started to complete my PG MCA from here in India after 5 years of It Exp. It is costly .But i though it would be good idea to complete it since i was not able to complete it earlier. I finding myself having again kind of a revision of everythgin from Java to c_++ to DSA to Project Management in the first Sem.I am juggling that with my Job since i cant leave it. I wanted to ask do you think it would be useful as a SW in 2 years from now. Since IT jobs are basically in a crash phase right now and might be same in the future with the advent of AI with AI taking care of production support based on pre identified circumsatnces or code review/betterment? In 2 years i can see MLOPS and AI based development gaining a lot of traction in that case how do you think our education system for S/W engineers should adapt?

[@clallen2000]

I enrolled in the Air National Guard/Air Force program which provided me access to the GI Bill, funding my college tuition. Through this program, I now have lifelong benefits including VA home loans, free medical treatment at VA hospitals, $5 prescription drugs, free eye glasses every 12 months, and many more benefits. The initial training requirement was manageable - 8 weeks of basic training and about 4 months of technical school. After that, the only obligations are working one weekend per month and two weeks per year. The Air Force, Air National Guard, and Space Force offer the most valuable job experience for transitioning into the civilian workforce later. The skills and training in these branches provide excellent alignment with in-demand jobs outside the military. Focusing your military service in one of those areas will set you up well for a smooth shift into related civilian careers.

[@edwardj3070]

you spend time in Iraq or Afghanistan?

[@Forty8-Forty5-Fifty8]

wow $5 prescription drugs and free glasses, I'll take one lifelong PTSD sir

[@johnnysong9781]

A college diploma/degree is part of the country’s immigration business. The only thing considered lucky for me is that I previously didn’t get involved in IT, so possessing dual backgrounds and a chance of immigration after graduation is just acceptable 😢

[@faisal.3190]

Are you serious man!! Computer science is not about learning code that would makes it worthless as you mentioned but it is about solving problem with math the way computers work. Computer science prepares you to write good programs and analyse it. "It is a science not just coding". And by the it's hardly to get a job with no degree because all the HR systems automatically checks if you meet the requirements or not and all companies requring a bachelor degree as a minimum qualification. Also with the AI in hand so it's hard to get a job even as a freelance.

[@jorgeruiz9412]

It all depends on what you want a CS degree for. If you just want a job "coding" because it pays well, then no, don't go through a CS degree. Couple of bootcamps in your target field (nowadays web development or mobile development) and you are set. Of course you need to build a network to find a job but that will come with your bootcamp experience. If you want to be more competent to be able to expand your possibilities and work in more specialized fields, like operating systems, embedded software, databases, AI, etc., or want to do research, then a CS degree is kind of a must have. Travis has other video describing how it took him more work to understand certain things because he did not know certain concepts that are taught in CS, but not in bootcamps. Self-taught developers, or self-taught anything, just don't know what they don't know, and it may come back to bite them, not fatally, but sometimes painfully. Personally, some of the best developers I know don't have formal training (one is a former anthropologist!) but are passionate about coding and learning, and some CS graduates make me doubt their degree is authentic. In the end it all goes down to how passionate are you about developing software and learning.

[@imakethesites3048]

University of central Florida charges 6k per year tuition, so I'm tempted to go because teaching myself hasn't turned out well. This mightve been true for some extremely motivated people in the past, but there's too much competition now

[@user-gb2hw7dg6y]

I did this. I have an AS degree in Science. I got a Software Engineer Apprenticeship at IBM. 2+ years later I'm being laid off. I'm being rejected from every job, completely ghosted. I wish I had the confidence to apply during the pandemic I would be a Senior level dev by now and much harder to lay off. Now I won't be employed probably for 2 more years and will need to start my career over.

[@browsingtheinternetwhilena7665]

But HR will automatically disregard your application if you have no degree

[@rodAde]

Heyyy love your content Do you think as an immigrant ,non native English speaker..with no experience in tech but willing to learn,which field should I choose to land a job fast, AWS or QA testing ?? Thank you

[@Imetalh]

Both of them can help you get a job. It's not the title that matters is the skills. Cloud and QA are all programming skills.

[@Aurelian_-vu3yz]

Careers aside, it’s a good thing for a society to have higher education readily available for all. It’s a shame that the costs of college have gotten to be so ridiculous.

[@MrValsung]

the primary thing I'm worried about, is which websites provide decent to good courses that - as long as I put in the proper amount of effort - I could be considered to be competent at; whether that's for job interviews, or even for hobbyist skills. for instance, I've been using the Win32 API w/C++ to 'hack' a game executable recently. I've gotten to the point where I have the game being remotely controlled by this program, with a display using the Console API built into the Win32 API. I think that can at least be considered bordering between a beginning and intermediate student level, wouldn't it? I am serious about learning, but I do kivetch at the thought that I will invest all my time - and some of my money - on courses that will not be worth the investment.

[@romaneaugustin2462]

Waw, that's impressive. You have the mind to be a very good programmer if you study it. Just to learn the patterns and how to actually build things. Seeing other smart people's projects can really help unlock your programming potential. I spend lots of time on Udemy and ZeroToMastery and of course youtube loll. Udemy has that $40/mo plan that offers an ample collection of courses. My favorite instructor would be Stephen Grider. He is a beast. I learn all my JavaScript (React, Next, TensorFlow, etc..) from him. If you check him out, you will not regret it. ZTM is also a particularly good option to learn modern industry technologies. Btw, I have a CS degree. I'd say, my vetting of these guys is quite decent.

[@user-iz5qr7vu3x]

I'm an upcoming freshman for com sci, well good enough I got into a collage that offers the course for free. Whats bothering me is that I can be really bad at maths, is it really that hard? if so how can I learn and improve?

[@cesruhf2605]

People who say that getting a cs degree makes you rich quotes the people from 10 years ago working for 2 hours a day to get 100k a year. supply is going to rise so this is unrealistic

[@felixmakinda7689]

The mental damage that the computer science degree has on many students is rarely talked about. It messed up most of my classmates. I don't know if I'm okay either. Took me 5 years to gather the courage to go back for the certificate.

[@isaak3680]

This is true for any stem major really

[@chuckynorris616]

A degree will be valuable forever specially if its a respected university

[@TravisMedia]

Most definitely valuable and an asset. But is it worth the cost?

[@chuckynorris616]

@@TravisMedia it's not really much. you're not forced to go to a private university. you can go to a respected public university and there many and save 5x

[@josephdaquila2479]

Think this is also true for roles that utilize computer science, but also are more slanted towards hardware? Like embedded systems, PLC programming, robotics, etc.?

[@ricardopaez1745]

For hardware you most definitely need education, unfortunately. Hardware is just so complicated, and if you look up good positions in hardware they ask for master + relevant experience or PhD. I personally only have a masters, and plan to cover the rest with experience

[@RemotHuman]

You can go to a state school for a discount, and if your parents are poor you can get government financial aid on top of that (check for your state). If they are rich maybe they saved the money for you

[@Wassap133]

You definitely have less options without cs degree since some jobs just put it as general requirement Otherwise it’s same as all. If you good and you know what you doing and can show/prove it , you will be good

[@randomfellow1483]

What about the faang companies? Do they require you to have a degree?

[@aaronaustrie]

I had no choice to opt out of college because I didn't see myself doing otherwise!

[@7A7z]

but travis im from srilanka and univercity and almost all education is free here . sooooooooo , should i go for a computer science degree ? im 17 btw and im have about 15 months of exp in javascript and a lil bit in python

[@Jekalmat]

Go for the degree mate. I'm also from Sri lanka and recently did a career transition from non tech jobs to IT in my 30s. But it was a very difficult task as a self taught developer. I got my first job basically because I have friends in higher positions in IT fields whom I met in school and collage. Otherwise I would still probably be applying to jobs ! Networking is key in any field and completing a degree fosters some life long relationships with similar minded people which will help you out in future. Since education is free here, go for the degree. Or if you can afford, do a CS degree in a private campus which is much faster. Good luck !!!

[@7A7z]

@@Jekalmat Thanks mate wish u luck in ur future career

[@jonathanwilliams1719]

Hi Travis, is the online CS degree with zero to mastery worthwhile?

[@TravisMedia]

Im not aware of any CS degree that they offer

[@robyee3325]

I think he was mentioning zero to mastery to learn software development. Check out Harvard’s free cs intro course cs50

[@isaak3680]

I honestly didn’t go into college with a very practical mindset and wasn’t on the “become a developer” grind. I just loved math and computers and wanted to learn above anything else.

[@romaneaugustin2462]

🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😅 You're hilarious lol Honestly, I would say I agree with you. More people need to watch this. And this is just como dice 'the tip of iceberg'. I wish you would make a 'Part 2' where you integrate price of books, the 2-3 hours interview tests, and the burnouts at work, lmao. Unless you got it like that (moolah-wise), Bad Idea. Also think this can be applied for most other degrees. 🤣😂 none silly like 'Interior Design' 🤣😂🤣😂

[@dontthrow6064]

5:40 Indecision - I think this is the main issue with degrees (in any field), even if it isn't the degree's fault. You don't really have the time to think what you really want.

[@joce7469]

Unfortunately i already got a CS degree and no job. What else can i do with this worthless degree?

[@dennissdigitaldump8619]

I've literally seen job postings say "NO BOOT CAMPS". Yeah, I'm burning money on a Data Science/AI degree. But it's technically a CS degree as far as employers are concerned. Good thing I'm doing a startup.

[@aidan34i56]

This is not good advice Travis. While a degree isn't 100% necessary, it certainly opens up doors compared to not having the degree. Another factor is that a degree at an institution provides you both the resources AND the incentive to learn the skill of programming. The external pressures to do well in a program that you or your parents are paying for FORCES you to learn. You have no excuses. Depending on the institution, it is arguably the best environment to learn this skill.

[@TravisMedia]

The problem is that in many cases the student nor their parent are paying for it. It is instead paid for with an outrageous loan with an outrageous interest rate that keeps people in an endless grind throughout their prime working years. If a loan isn’t needed then that would probably be one of the two exceptions I mentioned at the start of the video and by all means go for it. It does help.

[@aidan34i56]

@@TravisMedia You know what? That's a completely fair point. I didn't watch the video through and through and dived straight to the comments without investigating further. I apologize for that and going forward I won't do that again.

[@TravisMedia]

Nope. No apologies needed. Glad to see everyone’s opinions on this.

[@tumblindaisy]

you got to 45, what about 58? Is it too late?

[@matrix-vl4im]

I want to learn have a career perhaps a business but debating computer science, engineering degrees and ai. To either be part of the growth or be the one to lead.

[@rivierasperduto7926]

Before I even get 30 seconds in my comment has to be that I'm almost certain you will not bring up the fact that OVER 90% of the CS workforce have a BS degree at the least. So before I watch anymore of this or anyone else watches this just remember folks the most surefire way to get into tech is to get that CS degree because again: OVER 90% of the CS workforce has a BS degree at the least!!!!!

[@alex_lll]

>> Teach yourself to code and be amazing developer Uhm, yeah, no. As per my experience (15 years in the industry) - self-taught developer who is also amazing is exception, not the rule. Most self-taught developers are not very good on average and don't make nearly as much as people with CS background

[@randomfellow1483]

Do you need a degree to get into a FAANG company?

[@alex_lll]

@@randomfellow1483 usually they require degree OR relevant experience

[@plaidchuck]

It's not the 2010s anymore my dude. You're not getting in learning html css and js.

[@TravisMedia]

Yes it is a shame only the universities can teach us more.

[@jarg7]

@@TravisMedia i think its more the point that companies started to restrict hiring to cs grads it seems

[@kevinkasp]

Your information that in the country of Nepal or India a college degree is necessary for any kind of decent job applies to the Philippines also. Over there you can’t even be a McDonalds cashier without a college degree.

[@TravisMedia]

😯

[@jackiemasek8302]

So what you’re saying is I should get over my youngest turning down a full ride scholarship to Duquesne because he got a job at a robotics company making $60K when he was only 19? Fiiiine. Still, I do think maybe he’s missing out on some essential life experience that I really enjoyed by going to college.

[@TravisMedia]

No that’s not what I’m saying. Affordability was an exception I have which definitely includes a free ride

[@robyee3325]

College is not a coming of age ceremony!

[@macculu501]

Most of the points you mention here can be applied to not just Computer Science, but most other trades too except medicine and some of the other engineering disciplines like Civil or Mechanical Engineering. e.g. a Business degree? why not take that money and start a few small businesses and learn from any that fail? a degree some language? just go live in that location? The bigger question is, except for medicine etc ... is college even necessary?

[@TravisMedia]

I really wanted to go there but just left the scope with CS degrees.

[@Aurelian_-vu3yz]

I mean, I still think it’s important to have humanities in order to have a functional society.

[@onlyhumanity6148]

Ok bro can you be a mechanical engg or civil engg without degree😅?? I dont think so. Mech and civil engg required a lot of maths and physics which must be practiced at academics level. Programming can be learn at home when you have good laptop and online sources,books. Mech and civil lab equipments cost a lot of money which we cant afford at home.similar to mech and civil,computer engg also needs a lot of mathematics,electronics knowledge which would be better to learn at college as it provides proper routine and good network of professors. So I say it's easier to be a self taught programmer but difficult to be a self taught mech,civil,electrical or computer engg unless you are madly committed and rich like Elon musk who learned rocket science with his self study.

[@macculu501]

@@onlyhumanity6148 re-read what I said, "EXCEPT medicine and some of the other engineering disciplines like Civil or Mechanical Engineering" ... meaning you would need a degree

[@robyee3325]

If you are trying to get a job then yea it’s necessary. If you want to be an entrepreneur, then college is a waste of time. We don’t have to rely on ancient textbooks and half assed professor lectures anymore. College is an outdated education institution. We have the internet now. Just my opinion.

[@Amrichu]

@travismedia I have a question What if where I live college is free should I do it or learn everything and then get a different degree as a backup plan

[@TravisMedia]

Affordability was one of the exceptions I gave at the intro.

[@Amrichu]

Tyyyy

[@Amrichu]

Tyyy

[@pikachu_picasso]

I have a question from you , BBA or computer science ?

[@lepidoptera9337]

Depends on what kind of job you want. I have met very few people in the tech field who only had a BBA. There is a reason why they call it "support ENGINEER", even though it's more or less a sales job. You have to know the lingo and the technology, otherwise a tech savvy customer will have a very hard time talking to you. They will immediately feel that your company doesn't care about their concerns if you can't tell them a proper solution to their problems. If you want to work in an Indian call center, then BBA is probably fine.

[@FelixNL05]

In France 🇫🇷 it remains very affordable to study computer science

[@Triple_A-679]

It cost an average of $32000 not $100000 for a 4 year CS degree in Australia, one doesn't have to be in debt to do it, I work full-time to pay it off during the day and study at night, It's a lot of work but it's doable, Now the reason why I opt for this route - a CS degree gives me a solid foundation where I can pivot to any field of IT I want, Software Development, Cybersecurity, Network Engineering, Cloud Computing, Platform Engineering, DevOps Engineering, Machine Learning, Data Science the list goes on, but if someone who wants to go for Software Development specifically, one doesn't need to go to University.

[@TFDusk]

This is also the average for a 4 year degree in the US, this video is just posting extremely misleading information about the data. If you are getting 100k worth of student loan debt for a 4 year bachelors degree, the person made unnecessary decisions to lead towards that debt. For example, as mentioned in this video, out of stage schools do cost on average 27k to attend, but you don't need to go out of state to go to college. There are good reasons I believe a self taught/bootcamp route make sense to pursue, but the reasons pointed out in this video for a young person that's fresh out of high school they simply don't make sense.

[@randomfellow1483]

It’s hard to learn software development by yourself and you might not even get a job

[@aaronraycove9517]

1st, there's something to be said for the networking opportunities that attending a university will get you. Yeah you can learn all you want on your own, but it doesn't how much you learn if you don't have any connections. 2nd, It's not that easy to stay that motivated and pick out things you don't know to teach yourself. You don't know what you don't know, so how can you expect to accurately find information that you don't even know exists? University exposes you to a lot of things that you wouldn't find otherwise. The social and networking aspects of a degree are what makes the degree valuable, not just the skills you might learn by obtaining it.

[@deathhunter1029]

Thanks for reducing our competition

[@arturivan.]

you need knowledge/training, experience and projects. If you can manage those with the help of Pluralsight,Coursera etc than why to waste 4 years ? I just realized that i want to specialize in Cyber Security and I can do it all online. I dont have time for a uni. It is amazing that now you can do it!

[@felixumeh4534]

How can someone learn cybersecurity online

[@robyee3325]

University is outdated education institution. We have the internet now. We aren’t stuck learning from textbooks and half assed lectures anymore. People need to get out of the traditional learning mindset.

[@Carlospenamusic1]

But how do you get a good job, if employers only accept people with at least a bachelor's?

[@lepidoptera9337]

Most employers don't. Many want at least master's degree AND five years of industry experience or PhD. The safe bet is the PhD. It also gives you a lot more confidence.

[@ernesthudaj2560]

No one is going to look through 1,000 resumes. The first filter we use in hiring and getting it down to about 50 resumes is a CS degree. It's not personal it's just practical and save time.

[@Jayel805]

Ideally, universities should be for getting an education... not for getting job training. People treat higher education as the next stepping stone to their desired career when really it should be an enriching experience that builds your understanding of the world. I understand this is about practical career decision-making, but education is so much more than learning about how to perform a task... it's learning about what challenges the world faces and how your skills can address those challenges. The fact that people in the United States can't value education beyond what it can earn them in dollars is pretty much why democracy is crumbling around us. People don't understand history, culture, art, music, or anything else that makes us human because they are ONLY focused on accumulating wealth and consuming shit they don't need.

[@m18181jj]

I am getting my computer science degree, and I say it really varies person to person and their is no one size fits all solution for everyone. I got first 2 years free at community college and transfered to a state college with an easy to get scholarship that took off half the tuition. I never even stepped foot in debt. It is a good idea, just don't be dumb and work hard.

[@Geomaverick124]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The only degrees that I feel that people should take are accelerated ones like from WGU that include certifications, otherwise, it might be a waste of time...I also feel your timeframe is also believable. A lot of people on social media will tell people they can get a web dev / IT job in like 3 months...which is doable but highly unlikely...it is more reasonable to stretch it out to a year.

[@linhao1482]

10k a year, how did it become 80k to finish the degree? Why not 40k?

[@ambniccreations]

What’s wrong with an interior design degree lol?

[@MajorCaliber]

Paradigms change, life moves forward, and entropy makes stagnation not possible long-term, BUT... there's a real conundrum here, which is: university CS/CE Departments are the *"ecosystems"* or *"incubators"* which spawn both the core-knowledge (incl. programming languages and computer architectures) AND the textbooks you need to self-study. IOW, you can buy only used cars all your life, but if *someone else* doesn't consistently buy NEW cars, then pretty soon the factories shut down, and NObody has ANY cars. Analogy is always suspect, but you get the idea, i.e. HOW do we sustain The Golden Goose if no one feeds the goose? #ConceptOfLABoratories Open Secret: the real "backbone" servers of The -DARPAnet- Internet are run by high-IQ low-paid Grad Students at unis around the world, but mostly in the USA and Canada... 😉

[@romanlukichev4971]

Thanks, bro! You saved me.

[@ricecream55]

No, he fucked you over.

[@jimjamjerry]

What are the best degrees to get?

[@randomfellow1483]

Stem degree

[@LIFEOFSTUFFEDANIMALS]

I'm taking CS and I think i definitely wouldn't know where to start if I hadn't. To each their own, it's a big decision.

[@katanfu1]

20 years in IT with certs and get denied for job interviews because I don't have a degree. Starting back to school in a month.

[@user-jt6uv8vx8c]

Well I just graduated May 2023 with Computer Science and Engineering degree…

[@TravisMedia]

Congrats!

[@bshmoove08]

1 year of self-study does not equate to the 5 or more years of experience often required to subvert a college degree requirement in the industry. I have a 4-year degree in IT and even then, it's hard to transition to Computer Science because of the training and education I haven't had. I agree with Forbes, at least with a degree you don't have to sacrifice 4 years of your life being miserable, working for a crap company that will often under pay you well beyond what would have been made had you been at an employer that's willing to pay more for an educated applicant.

[@lepidoptera9337]

Yes, it is, right until you have to solve a real problem and then you are completely lost without it. ;-)

[@keldur16]

You should make a video on how universities can make people dumber. I somewhat agree but am interested in your thought process.

[@isaak3680]

How can they make people dumber

[@MajorCaliber]

I got ze 4-year sheepskin, back when it was affordable, but... I'm good with any trend that puts downward pressure on the *absurd and baseless hyper-inflation* in college tuition! Well, it's not totally baseless, like ALL inflation, it comes back to Fed.Gov pumping money into a sector (Student Loans, WIOA, etc). NOTHING has gone up in price since 1990 like college tuition! NONE of the core costs (labs, computers, faculty salaries, electricity, etc.) have risen nearly as much. #NotSustainable #StopTheMadness

[@robyee3325]

Agreed

[@sidneymonteiro3670]

THAT'S AN OPINION... now a FACT: the job posters and hiring managers stuff requirements for master's degree or bachelor's degree willy-nilly as much as recruiters using automated resume parsers for keywords. The job market is tight enough that master's and bachelor's holders with plenty of experience can't land a position, advocating to skip the degree is foolhardy.

[@TheSincioco]

I totally agree with you. I have been making a six figure salary since I was 19 years old and I don’t have a college degree! I learned programming when I was 11 and have been self taught ever since. I’m currently learning AI and ML to further my knowledge and education and that’s how I came across your videos. Thanks for making them! ❤️❤️❤️

[@randomfellow1483]

How did you get a good portfolio

[@lifebyvikk6751]

Haha people trashing a comp sci degree have a big problem, it takes 3 to 4yrs to Get a decent tech job..for self taught. it takes 4yrs to complete a degree,nowadays CS graduates finish uni with great portfolios too as they know importance of side projects, goodluck with your bootcamp or self taught journey in 2023 and beyond. Travis here got into tech probably when knowing basic JavaScript or comptia aplus was hot cake, he's old and experienced,its called the curse Of Knowledge.

[@mikefitzmabanyz3642]

i got the information i wanted at 1:56. 7 minutes saved. thanks

[@riigel]

So hard to find a backend job, I'm a college dropout and a career shifter, until now no one wants to hire someone like me, i will not give up tho ... 🗿🗿🗿

[@aaronaustrie]

I maybe could've gotten into a trade school but I really don't know or can't pick a trade I'm interested in tbh 🤦🏾‍♂

[@nolifezay4636]

HVAC for sure

[@robyee3325]

Machining. Then you can learn how to use cad and cam for cnc machining.

[@dijoxx]

Very few of software jobs are in tech companies. Most of the remaining employers do not really know how to differentiate between good and bad engineers. For them the degree is still a convenient filter.

[@rosstatham439]

It’s kind of misleading to look at college prices without looking at the rate of return on that cost. Average lifetime earnings with any STEM college degree are far higher than high school only, which will far outweigh that 200k. Stats and numbers are so easy to spin if done sloppily (mine in this comment are sloppy too!)

[@johanlindhe7378]

Not really relevant in Sweden where u get money for studying. It doesn't cost anything and you get study allowance to be able to pay rent and food. A smaller part, like $400/month, u actually GET and you the rest, approx. $1200, is a loan with very low interest. Those random courses you mentioned wouldn't be part of CS-programs. Usually a program is very well thought through with things building on top of each other. However, I agree that CS is something that can be self-taught very well and you can focus on exactly what u wanna learn. I personally find it much easier with motivation when I study something simply 'cause I want to, rather than have to. Ofc, u choose the Uni-program, but u can still feel like u "have to" study those courses, despite choosing the program.

[@ianscottuk]

The degree I did (not computer science) taught us how to think, how to problem solve. Not going to get that on an online course. You seem to just be making the argument that computer science is not actually worthy of being taught as a degree? If that is true, I wonder if this is why it may get replaced by AI? Or perhaps the guys who learn it all online will be the ones easily replaced?

[@ozmage]

Go to a competency based program like WGU. Study your ass off before you go. Get fed aid and maybe tuition reimbursement (that almost every employer offers nowadays). Pay nothing. Graduate with tons of certs and a degree within a year or two. Congrats.

[@garrytuohy9267]

I didn't know about those META Courses on Coursera

[@junk_bear]

There's going to be a skill gap, but Computer Science is worth it now (Mostly): kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5jce6lohsqfrc0si=gZJXr0Ng12md2W62

[@rosstatham439]

Yeah, dunno about that one chief. Defo worth it if you want to go into tech, all my friends who studied comp sci are far ahead. Physics degree can get you far as well, with more options perhaps.