A CONVERSATION ABOUT ISRAEL/PALESTINE: Isaac talks with Haviv Gur

[@danielgoldberg9231]

Haviv is the best and more American outlets need to bring him on

[@stevenbowman7504]

😊😊😊😊😊 G U N Guns Speak louder than words. M😂uhammed's lesson conquored the. East from the. I😊dus To the Atlantic

“We do not owe them our own destruction. We do owe them their independence.” What a great summation.

[@TzvookT]

As an Israeli I assure you - *We do NOT owe them their independence* and they didn't ever wanted it. They are no more then destructive terror gangs of INVADERS (that's what they even call themselves) who have one mission - to destroy whatever is Israeli / western / modern

[@craigb4913]

First heard Haviv interviewed by Bari Weiss months ago. I'm a life-long follower now.

[@noahman27]

This was soooooo great. I learned a ton!!!!!!!!!! It explains a lot. Haviv Rettig Gur's interviews are so informative.

[@Dan-ku9mt]

Haviv is a GIANT and I follow every morsel of his commentary, be it written or spoken. No one seems to understand the inner dynamics and complexities of this matter or the history that informs it in both a microcosmic and macrocosmic terms such as he. He has a GIFT in breaking things down and distilling them to their most fundamental essence while still remaining pragmatic and wholly non-biased and respectful as possible.

[@patzan48]

Absolutely. Well said.

[@marianneweiss888]

I always love Haviv’s clear minded honesty, clarity, and practicality

[@collegecall007]

War criminal Ex IDF

[@collegecall007]

Lunatic

[@charlesbalcher173]

Breathtaking in depth explanation of the Jewish/Islamic predicament.

[@dinahackett1725]

Excellent! Journalists should aspire to Haviv Gur's intricate knowledge of the middle east.

[@AniBAretz]

Wow. This interview blew me away. It is food for thought delivered with a degree of depth I've only occasionally come close to seeing a handful of times. I'll have to follow Haviv Gur, now. I only wish the US Dept of State would listen to him, too.

[@Dejavu_1101]

Haviv is brilliant.

[@KarenBrady-b8f]

This was amazing. Thank you for this and for continually challenging me. I crave this type of engagement in our world of clickbait headlines. So worth the 90 minutes!!!

[@tanglenews]

Thanks for watching it all!

[@JMalloyTroy]

Wow! First in-depth explanation of the theological underpinnings of Hamas that I’ve heard and now I see the situation in the Middle East from a completely different perspective.

[@ErezLevin]

I've been really looking forward to this one. It did not disappoint. Thank you Isaac (and Haviv too of course).

[@tanglenews]

Thank you for watching!

[@halpwr]

What an unbelievable interview. Haviv seems to be one of the most realistic, intrinsic, practical and knowledgeable people on this conflict. Loved how the interviewer didn't interrupt often and let him do his thing. Hope for peace in this region one day in our lifetime.

[@ruthellenmulberg7999]

Fabulous interview. I learned soooo much. Gur’s fluency for explaining the longer historical arc that led to the current moment in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict really clarified my thinking! Thank you, Isaac. I can totally understand why you were so profoundly affected and are promoting it so strongly to your readership/viewership. Well done!

[@carolmyers1332]

Haviv is a remarkably knowledgeable speaker. I’ve never listened to a podcast of this length but I learned so much about the history of this conflict it was worth every minute. Thanks for making this happen for Tangle readers!

[@sebastiansobieski9790]

I have searched long and hard for the perfect introductory video on this topic and this one is the best by far. It is an incredibly thoughtful and compassionate representation of the Israeli perspective and I owe much to Haviv for my rudimentary understanding of the subject.

[@SionTJobbins]

Very interesting, very balanced and also respectful of the Islamic/Palestinian/Arab side - that is, not infantising them, saying Arabs have no agency in their actions, but also going into the philosophy, or rather, different philosophies in the conflict.

[@wickedlylong1015]

Having is incredibly knowledgeable & understanding of nuance, we need him on more podcasts…. 🇬🇧🇮🇱 Thankyou for this illuminating conversation gentlemen

[@tiamumu]

What stuck with me the most in this incredibly packed and rich interview is what Haviv refers to as students' lack of curiosity. No questions asked, they know everything there is to know. If October 7 has taught us anything, is that that combination of hubris, laziness and stupidity is anything but harmless.

[@MsDoyoudo]

Thank you for this in-depth analysis! It confirmed me once again in the idea that the hope for peace lies on the path where people accept the agency of the weak, not the powerful, as the revelation of all Abrahamic religions

[@brentshields9758]

Not often I make it through that long of a video, but it was worth it and seemed like less than half the time. Such good perspective and thought. I will be thinking this one over for quite a while!!

[@robertlarge8185]

All Haviv's interviews and lectures are worth the listen. He covers the history of the Palestine area in the last 140 years.

[@michaelkaplan5865]

Finally, finally, finally, a perspective shared in Tangle that looks at the Israel-Gaza situation with an understanding of the historical context and a clear eyed view of Hamas. It should not have taken this long. And should be shared with those who read the newsletter but don't watch the KZbin channel. I am very curious, Isaac, to know if this has changed your opinion in any way, or if, after this, you still are calling for a ceasefire.

[@marthabacker8539]

me too... sharing it with people arguing.

[@elisolomon8741]

That was 90 minutes well spent. Thank you for the insightful dialogue. Am Yisrael Chai. Sydney.

[@mulongpus]

Haviv is required listening for anyone wanting a well informed perspective on the conflict.

[@Edmontonsum]

This interview is the single most helpful piece of media I've watched/read in terms of helping me to understand wtf animates Hamas/their allies. I feel as though I finally have some sense of the substance in the conflict. It's also made me humbly aware of just how divorced from reality the entire American & Canadian progressive or liberal responses are. Wow. Talk about irrelevant.

[@Thenoobestgirl]

Haviv always brings rationality to the Muslim POV. He truly understands what goes on it their heads and should be invited to speak on more programs.

[@krisblackwell8102]

Haviv Gur was exactly right in saying that this is a fundamental religious issue. In America we do not like to point to religious ideology as the source of conflict but in reality the Middle East has always had this conflict. We need to recognize that those who follow the Islamic theology of the end of the world whichwill see Allah and Islam being the true religion will not stop and participate in the ideology of Western Democracy. But also no one is talking about those Palestinians who don't buy into that theology but are pacifists and believe in a coexistence of Christians, Jews, and Muslims. They hold a future peace in the area. Thank you, Isaac, for being courageous enough to hear all sides and bring such a profound thinker to the table.

[@robertlarge8185]

Haviv said this in one of his lectures - "The success of the Jewish state basically from a rabble of European and Middle Eastern refugees since 1882 is the biggest failure in the history of Islam".

[@lizbethglickman2725]

Been reading and attending conferences with him a long time and am always fascinated. Haviv is one of the deepest and most honest thinkers.

[@marktobin7140]

A brilliant discussion that deserves a larger audience. Thank you Saul and Haviv.

[@terrykent313]

I never thought I would be that engrossed for 1.5 hours on a subject that I could take or leave. Now I understand to a certain level why this is an ongoing (problem) through out the Muslim world.

[@theclassroomdoc]

Haviv Gur is the most interesting, knowledgeable and nuanced speaker on Israel Palestine today! Remarkable and refreshing views.

[@DDBb993]

So informative really like listening to Haviv.Thnx

[@taranrose1]

An amazing conversation. This radically opened my mind and shifted my perspective. This is the kind of work that makes Tangle indispensable! I’ll be following Haviv’s work thanks to this conversation!

[@seanmclaren6879]

Great interview. I would like to hear and see a similar conversation with a Palestinian analyst of equal stature to Haviv present the Palestinian view.

[@seanmclaren6879]

I think the Churchill quote Haviv was looking for near the end was this one: “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other possibilities.”

[@johnsteed5754]

Brilliant. Haviv is just brilliant.

[@AnnmGartner]

Very informative. I appreciate the views that are grounded in realism and thoughtfulness.

[@saskiascott8181]

What a fantastic interview thank you, I hope more people find this channel and this video

[@jackg9006]

This was so informative. Kudos to you

[@michaeljortner9591]

Anyone seriously interested in the Israel Palestinian conflict needs to watch this conversation

[@ny-stockholm-kyivexpress5015]

Excellent conversation and excellent guest.

[@jackiebraun5479]

I've been sidestepping this conflict. I have friends backing both sides and they are very passionate about their choices. But I see very little dialogue between or a desire to see other viewpoints from either side. I find it difficult to know what to think or believe when everything I'm hearing is being skewed depending on the belief of the teller. This is one reason I follow Tangle- I can usually trust that the information I'm receiving is well thought out and basically non-biased. Thank you for this interview! I have learned much from listening to it and now feel I can have a somewhat intelligent conversation regarding this issue. It saddens me terribly that we as humans think that wars are the only way to resolve conflicts and that the leaders of the conflicts have such little regard for the lives that they just toss away.

[@chela2910]

I wish I could share this with just absolutely everyone 😢

[@BFleming57]

Good work Isaac and Team!

[@tanglenews]

Thank you for watching!

[@georgettelipinski]

Thank you for providing this podcast very well done and informative.

[@tanglenews]

Thank you for watching!

[@theshrubberer]

the background on Salafism was very helpful. Thank you

[@iillii5]

حبيب فاهم المحنة النفسية الخانقة لمخيلة المسلمين

[@Edmontonsum]

And the failure of Western imagination to understand Hamas/allies in their own terms. Great interview, I learned so much!

[@lizbethglickman2725]

Compassionate realism....Haviv.

[@jacobszekely4069]

Haviv is amazing! Thank you for this!

[@AbundanceProtocol]

Excellent interview. It's refresher to hear a serious discussion of the conflict, rather than talking points from mostly clueless partisan talking heads.

[@SummerLall]

This was so illuminating.

[@katemcdonald6290]

The most realistic narrative I have ever heard.

[@VincentFulco]

Catch every interview this gentleman does.

[@inka12877]

I do too. Every time he speaks, I listen in awe… He’s brilliant

[@LilacPledge]

“Israel doesn’t owe the Palestinians its destruction, but it owes them their independence”. The host, with all due respect, I’m glad you admitted your polianish view. I sense resistance in you to the reality of Israel’s survival. Saying things like I want the war to stop is really… saying I want to feel good about myself and Israel be damned.

[@PaulBCohen]

People who have used the gifts given to them for evil and destruction of the givers, are OWED NOTHING except taking away any opportunity to continue in belligerence. The Arabs in Israel have to decide whether they will be truly peaceable and live under Israeli rule, or whether to join their brethren in one of the many Arab countries. No “Palestine” fri the river to the sea.

[@PaulBCohen]

No editing possible on phone, so I add the obvious correction here - “from the river to the sea.”

[@Kouros-y2t]

Precisely. He must understand that it's not about palestinian independece. Not even for the palestinians. They would have no problem if it wasn't Israel but some muslim country. The whole cause is a machiavellian tool of power for pan-arab and islamic interests against the jewish minority. And concessions will not bring you any closer to peace and justice. They are seen as a sign of weakness in the Middle East. Every advantage and gain in power that grows through a concession on their side is used to fight even more aggressively and effectively.

[@cassielsbid]

Great interview. At 1:01:45 look for Realignment Plan.

[@janeblood6275]

I thought I was fairly well versed on this complex, tragic situation. After listening to Haviv Gur in this terrific podcast, I realize I have a lot to learn. Again, I intend to listen to this again. But, Isaac, what analyst from an opposing view should I listen to next? -So I can become really tangled.

[@ryderwilson7955]

How sad does a side has to become to turn the Hebrew word “explain” and villainize discussion, that’s fascist af

[@theclassroomdoc]

"the more you can tell their story in a way that you can imagine yourself actually living the story, the more paths you find to actually come out of the trap... so I am actually an optomist."

[@inka12877]

Haviv is a brilliant thinker. I can listen to him all day long…

[@michiganyes]

I'm curious how he'd respond to the right to return for Palestinians given how important it is for many Palestinians. It would be cool to see a debate between Haviv and one of the best folks on the pro-Palestinian side.

[@deskset7436]

There is a two state proposal that respects the right of return as well as Israelis who wish to remain in the West Bank. Take a look at A Land for All.

[@michiganyes]

@@deskset7436 I have visited their website before and I follow them on social media. Thank you for mentioning them :)

[@gg_rider]

​@@deskset7436 do you know this chant popular on college campuses? "Khaybar, Khaybar, ya yahud! Jaish Muhammad soufa yaʿoud!" Do you know what series of events to which it refers, and the outcome?

[@yanivreif7379]

Like every other Israeli…. They are asking for a state of their own but want to “return” to the other state is non sensical

[@wkaback]

Fantastic interview!

[@tanglenews]

Much appreciated!

[@justmyopinion99]

Something not discussed in this interview is that like the Palestinians, the Israelis have an internal extremist faction, which is the ultra-orthodox settlers who want to continue to expand Israel at the direct cost of Palestinians. These extremist factions need to be reigned in on both sides if progress is to be made.

[@thevillageyid]

Comparing the two is laughable, and the settlers aren't the issue. There were no settlers or expansionism going on a before 67 and we had no avenue for peace through the Arab/Muslim route.

[@justmyopinion99]

I make no judgment about any equality between the two parties. My point is that the extremist factions on both sides lead to flashpoints, which both sides then take to justify their responses. In short, extremists make it harder or impossible for the majority on both sides to reach an acceptable compromise. In this situation, compromise is required, because the only other solution is the total destruction of one side or the other, mostly benefitting third parties. Or so it seems.

[@t-townfoxtrot5181]

⁠@@justmyopinion99I agree. Netanyahu has handled his time in power in a way that almost universally has been viewed as not helpful to either Israel nor Palestine. And the settlers, while hugely different from Islamic extremist terrorists, consistently add tension to the region. It’s a region that does not need more tension. I crave intelligent and knowledgeable thinkers like Haviv’s perspective on these more difficult elements that the current government helps support.

[@ginadawn9685]

There is no palestinians. They are Gazans and hamas. There are many arabs who live peacefully in Israel. There are many countries that are arab. They do not need another country. The is only 1 israel for jewish people. Many arab countries have allowed gazans in but they tried to take over and were kicked out.

[@PaulBCohen]

The problem here is as you state - you make no judgment. Your opinion is based on faulty thinking. Israel is the rightful owner of Judea and Samaria. Gaza, too.

[@Scdoo100]

That was unbelievable!

[@ChitMusik]

Haviv Gur. I first heard him interviewed by Bari Weiss Earlier this year. Then I heard your interview-this one. Better than anyone else I have read or heard, Gur describes the true nature of the conflict between Israel and Hamas. It’s not conceptual. It’s not political. It is ancient, tribal, and religious in ways most westerners could ever be able to meaningfully relate to. Evangelical Christians seem to think they can. But, with all due respect, the rest of America needs not only to pay them no mind at all-we need to disown and repudiate their apocalyptic ideology. Israel’s fight is Israel’s oh-so-ancient, oh-so-tribal, oh-so-religious fight.

[@Aidyway]

Haviv, like many defenders of Israel's war crimes and human rights abuses, keeps reiterating different variations of the same fundamentally flawed argument: basically he is saying that Hamas (and other Palestinian militants) is (are) so horrific and such a threat to "peace" in the region that Israel's actions are justified. This is not how international and human rights law (and just common decency) work. For example, he implies that Israel has had no choice but to completely flatten Gaza because Hamas built an elaborate network of tunnels to provoke Israel into doing this in order to stoke international outrage at the sheer destruction and number of lives lost. So, his logic seems to be: well, Hamas is not playing by the rules so Israel should not have to either. This is ridiculous and reprehensible. As of now there are over 40 000 dead in Gaza, most of them women and children, likely a number 4x that will end up dead due to disease, malnutrition, etc. and satellite imagery confirms that Israel has destroyed (partially or completely) an estimated 70%+ of the buildings in Gaza. As Haviv pointed out, Israel has an advanced military that has robots and precise ways of destroying tunnels, so what justifies the carpet bombing? It is not justified. This has been determined by the majority of world leaders, the ICC, the ICJ, the UN, and countless aid and human rights groups.. I could go on, but I'm not sure there's a point.. if Haviv and all his admirers in these comments were interested, you could easily look this up. Read ICC and ICJ rulings, actually see what the top legal and human rights experts are saying.. And not only concerning what's happening in this tragic moment, but since Israel's inception. It is a well known fact that Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing campaigns. Zionism unfortunately has been used by Britain, the US and other Western powers to serve their narrow interests (to establish an outpost in the Middle East to further their strategic interests in the region post decolonization, find a solution to the issue of the horrors of European anti-semitism, etc.) and I'm not sure it is at all redeemable. Zionist Israel (that is, one that uses ethnic cleansing, Jewish supremacist policy, violence and propaganda to create, uphold and expand a Jewish "homeland") must transform radically. And I am not sure the majority of Jewish Israelis will be willing to do this, as Haviv points out, they are too scared. It may take a lot of international pressure to change Israel's calculus. This means stopping aid and political cover and enforcing sanctions against Israel - this is what many activists are calling for. It eventually worked to end Apartheid in South Africa, and it can work to end Israel's apartheid and ethnic cleansing. Really I am not sure why what I am writing is considered "far left" - again, I invite anyone who is curious to look up and research any and all assertions I have made here.. there are plenty of books, research articles, etc. to back this up.

[@TaylorJenkins]

So my takeaway is that the path forward is to somehow build a new narrative on a path to greatness that does not involve conquest and bloodshed.

[@susanrutherford2046]

Very thoughtful!

[@navidelie8945]

Fantastic! Get Rudy Rochman please!

[@saraho.3975]

This was such a great interview. I’ve never heard someone share the Hamas point of view in such a clear way. It’s incredibly helpful in understanding why they do things that seem so illogical - and awful - from an outsiders point of view. I appreciate that I now I have an understanding of where they are coming from and I find it incredibly important to the whole situation. And his explanation of the Israeli experience is deeply insightful and helpful as well. He gave the most succinct explanation of that perspective that I’ve heard. I think he made it very obvious that we in the West - and maybe the whole world - do not understand the varying perspectives of the people involved in this part of the world. I don’t think we earn a right to agree or disagree until we have taken the time and energy to understand. Listening to him is by far the most helpful thing I’ve heard/read toward gaining the understanding that is needed of all sides. One thing we haven’t heard from any news organization I can find, is the perspective of Israeli Arabs. What are their perspectives on Hamas, Gaza, West Bank and the Palestinian community? They are Israelis, but not Jews. What do they think of Hamas and their actions? Or Gaza, the West Bank, and the Palestinian community? What do they think of the Israeli response?

[@tomeryeshurun8873]

Look up Bari Weiss interviewing Lucy Aharish (from around february I think) its just the perspective of one Israeli arab but I think its a profound interview

[@saraho.3975]

@@tomeryeshurun8873thank you! I will do that!

[@stevejenisch9153]

dude wanted a simple answer; Haviv set him straight. I ❤ Haviv Rettig Gur.

[@infocus]

Haviv has a few videos on Shalem College's channel, regarding the Israeli and Palestinian experience. Highly recommend!

[@justmyopinion99]

The first step to getting people to support your war is to dehumanize the enemy. Draw them as simplified caricatures that justify your actions against them. Those caricactures are never fair or correct, but just right enough about the most negative aspect of the most extreme individuals, amplified, to seem justified to those not inclined to think and to question, which seems to be over 80% of humans.

[@Edmontonsum]

I thought this was the most powerful part of Gur's responses - deeply humanized Hamas/their allies

[@ilanleiferman2820]

Haviv is Israel’s strategic geopolitical thinker GOAT!

[@johndoe-vc1we]

Dan schueftan and yoram Ettinger are worth checking out too

[@350kph]

I hear the word as Incurious. but I definitely get the point...

[@MoeMa4]

This is some brilliant Hasbara content!!! I love how you intellectualize zionists crimes, apartheid and brilliantly defend genocide and occupation. Good job boys!

[@billwhitaker1533]

Haviv is a great speaker, but Dr. Dan understands better!

[@theclassroomdoc]

"Israeli's who understand Palestinians and Palestinians who understand Israeli's have tremendous respect for the other side. And foreigners who understand neither of us just sort of pick sides along partisan lines."

[@helenezonana]

Haviv has a deep understanding of the underpinnings of this conflict without which, all commentary becomes void of intellectual honesty. It is so ideological that the peace process of it ever existed one, cannot be achieved without this understanding. Jews are not going anywhere, and Palestinians aren’t either, so it is up to Palestinians to have the agency to choose a better future.

[@tonyrobin3124]

What a brilliant and valuable discussion

[@katedooley1730]

So, I'm curious, Isaac, did this change your mind?

[@fathaldinaljamal7740]

As a believer in God (Muslim), I have one point I would like to share: why is everyone missing the message of God? The day of judgment will happen when you die. You will be held accountable for your actions. No matter if you are Jewish, Christian, or Muslim! We are all spawned in different areas (religion), but what you do is what matters! On the day of judgment, everyone will be judged as an individual, not a group! let's Take sides with cation because our life is short and the group is not us or our future.

[@asecher]

You will learn from this gentleman and dr. dan schueftan why the Israel's are so justified in most everything. I don't like Netanyahu, but the policy is fundamentally sound. You have to know the whole background and story starting in 1880.

[@justmyopinion99]

An honest question - how responsible are all people for the actions of the leaders they either select or abide, and thus enable? Are Israelis responsible for the actions of their government? Are Palestinians responsible for the actions of Hamas? Are the people obligated to suffer for the actions of their leaders, as they enjoy the benefits of the actions of their leaders, whether that is a moral or ethical action or not? Are Russians responsible for the actions of Putin? Were Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazis? Were the British responsible for the atrocities of the British empire? I believe that people are responsible for the actions of their leaders, and are required to contain and remove those leaders when. necessary, or suffer the consequences of those leader's actions and decisions. Is a citizen of a country directly and personally responsible for every atrocity commited by their government? Probably not, but they are certainly contributors. The answer to tnis plays into the question of whether Gazans should bear the burden of the response of Israel to the insults executed by Hamas. It is part of the fabric of the history of the middle east, and the war.

[@thevillageyid]

"Are Palestinians responsible for the actions of Hamas?" Did you just come out of hibernation of something? Palestinian society is completely mobilized and galvanized by jihadist ideas and the destruction/replacement of Israel. There is ample evidence out there that shows Palestinian civilians helping Hamas and other Islamic militants. Many Palestinian civilians participated in the Oct 7th attack, including kidnapping and looting.

[@amirabiri2]

Your question is the core of the individualism/collectivism debate. I don’t think it has a simple answer, but I believe the extreme form where “the people” are something completely detached from “the government” is a recent phenomena brought by American individualism that sees the government as only a mechanism for facilitating citizen freedom and prosperity. Until recently and all through history people always thought in terms of “peoples” or races or nations. In other words the atomic actors of history were collective organisms, not the individuals from which they were composed, and our moral viewpoint reflected this fact.

[@guidobolke5618]

On a practical level, the people will suffer consequences of the actions of their leader whether they support him or not, whether you think this is right or wrong. You better act as if you were responsible for it.

[@joge2468]

In modern times, we can fairly accurately gauge how aligned a population is with its leaders. In the case of democracies, obviously voting is the key indicator. In non-democracies, we have the following: independent polling, civil disobedience, armed resistance, and subterfuge. A population largely aligned with its leadership bears equal responsibility. If we take Gaza as an example of a non-democracy, polling indicates very high support for Hamas and its underlying ideology. We have seen no armed resistance or widespread civil disobedience since they were elected. Many people argue such things are not possible given the level of control Hamas exerts. I am willing to entertain that their control is so pervasive, resistance has been futile. However, we cannot ignore the CURRENT lack of subterfuge or resistance. We would hope to see hostage and Hamas officer locations reported to the IDF, as well as widespread civilian “mutiny.” Imagine how quickly this war would have been fought under such conditions.

[@guidobolke5618]

@@joge2468 A population, if attacked, will naturally rally around it's leadership - even if this leadership didn't have much support before. You don't see "mutiny" as a result of external pressure.

[@noammkw3770]

1:27:20 you literally got me clapping. thats what needs to be said

[@5kehhn]

One would wish that the Palestinian people would get wise.

[@clairezet3182]

THE FIRST TIME IN ALMOST 8 MONTHS YOU BRING A PRO ISRAEL SIDE? TELLS A LOT ABOUT YOU.

[@JoeShmo8868]

28:00 1:05:00

[@thumbtech]

A little charitable to term this a "conversation", but it was informative and Haviv was self-aware that he was propounding a personal point of view. I would enjoy seeing him debated on some of the points he makes, however!

[@Edmontonsum]

Curious, which points would you see as good starting points for debates?

[@mikelipschitz7281]

Thanks firstly both .Gur is in a fascinating analysis and when he says he talks to long ,no response .Please show some enthusiasm for an incredible analysis.Then Gur ,did you get tired and say ‘great question’ to the idiotic comment of a ceasefire to avoid future generations hate ,or something to that effect .Not to rule out a ceasefire but suddenly they are going to love Israelis change their internal narrative because of a ceasefire .It amazes me that someone intelligent can be so naive at best .Mike

[@liorajacob8094]

Wait, let me get this straight, an American Jew who calls himself a Zionist has waited 8 months to bring on to his podcast a guest who believes Israel has a right to exist? Wow.

[@terriej123]

It wasn’t about Israel not being able to move the 1.5 million people away from Rafah. The original US position was that Israel needed to move them to a safe zone & provide them shelter, electricity, medical care, & the appropriate amount of food, water, & other aid.

[@ChittibabuPadavala]

❤

[@bellringrrakascaleywalez3240]

As an academic and a journalist, I wonder how Gur feels about IDF targeting academics and journalists in Gaza.

[@iwatchvideos9187]

1:15:25

[@blakewidmer]

Amazing how cheap and easy to discard for Haviv are the lives of Palestinian children. "If only 100 die every day instead of 1,000 that seems better, but we just need to pull the bandaid off faster." (i.e. slowing down to only 100 deaths a day is a bad thing, keep the rate high at a 1,000....) The paranoia of Israeli minds is deep, profound and tragic. "Might makes right", says history, and Israel definitely has the might. Sad. They don't know how to use it. Psychology teaches us that "hurt people, hurt people" and Israel is hurting a lot of people, it has repeated Oct 7 almost daily against the Gazans and yet somehow they think they are "just" in doing so. They need to read the Torah again, and remember that Gazans are not Amalek. Using the Torah as a proof text for genocide is an atrocity, and more people need to talk about it as such. #ceasefirenow

[@pezeron24]

As horrific as the Gaza situation is, I haven't heard any Western critic of Israel (including myself) coming up with a solution. Well, except for those who wish for the end of Israel. Also, you and I don't live in Israel post-October 7. If we were, what would we feel, think, worry about, and decide? I don't know but I understand Haviv Gur's point.

[@blakewidmer]

@@pezeron24 Haviv's point is easy to understand, and most do, which is tragic. We have dehumanized other humans and their lives are deemed not as valuable as others. Full stop. Gabor Mate, Norman Finkelstein, Miko Peled, Noam Chomsky, Daniel Boyarin are just a few Israeli-American voices who have solutions for equality and justice for all. None of their solutions require continual slaughter of innocent children. The thought that ongoing war is necessary is a false premise. The thought that you can strip other humans of their freedoms and rights and have a sustained acquiescence to this suppression and achieve any human flourishing is simply not realistic. War is a false choice. But the companies profiting to the tune of 62 Billion $ off of this war in 10 months is the result of people going with Haviv's thinking, and that of Netanyahu and company.

[@robertmatch6550]

You are missing the points made by Haviv especially that Hamas is structuring the Palestinian losses specifically to create an 'agency' of the week. You sound like one of the people who thinks they already understand it all and are otherwise Not Curious.

[@rubishkimou]

Maybe bring a Palestinian to speak on behalf of what Palestinians think or believe?

[@gg_rider]

Fluent Arab speakers tell me that most of these leaders speak some form of "social justice" and victimhood in English and speak annihilation in Arabic. In terms of rap flows, the chant "Khaybar Khaybar, ya Yahud! Jaish Muhammad soufa yaʿoud!" is top form. It's popular on college campuses when Arabic speaking militants are leading the chant. It means mass m----r. It refers to the battle of Khaybar, Muhammad's first major win, in which the Jewish tribe in Mecca surrendered. Jaish Muhammad, the army of Muhammad, executed all 300+ men, checked the teens for pubes and spared those with no pubes, and enslaved all those not killed, mainly the women. The wife of the leader was dragged past her deceased husband (she cried out and fainted at the horror) to Mohammed's tent, where he instantly "married" her, aka graped 🍇 her. That's THE future of dealing with the most pious and most obedient Muslims, not to say all of them, who are committed to serving Allah and obeying Muhammad in this manner.

[@merbst]

not one Palestinian perspective, but many, because this discourse is deep in a bubble of dehumanizing racism! I suggest watching anything by Ranka Kalek on Breakthrough News!

[@Edmontonsum]

Isaac has interviewed at least 3 Palestinian thinkers/voices in the past few months

[@tanglenews]

Hi there! Haviv was actually the first Israeli we have had on the show since the war began. All of our past interviews about this have been with Palestinian academics or anti-Israel pundits, hence the introduction to this interview. For the most recent, you can see our interview with Youseff Munayyer here: www.readtangle.com/yousef-munayyer-palestinian-american-interview/ Or our interview with Daniel Bannoura here: podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/episodes/The-Sunday-podcast-Isaac-and-Ari-interview-Daniel-Bannoura-e2fkstb

[@patzan48]

@@tanglenewsThe person who commented is clearly a bad faith actor.

[@CraigTalbert]

3:47 - the moment the intro got too long.

[@terriej123]

If they’d allow the civilians into the tunnels then the Israelis would say that they were keeping them hostage down there. Either way though, why would the Gazans or anyone else want to be inside a tunnel? You wouldn’t.

[@chicagofineart9546]

It IS clear all of this IS optimism.😂

[@mmikee407]

You need to listen to Dr. Dan Schueftan, he knows what is needed to properly manage the Palestinians problem. Dr. Mordechai Kedar, can also tell you why Palestinians and terrorism are inseparable.

[@bellringrrakascaleywalez3240]

He said the American pier is fully operational😂