A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake on chance and accidents, indeterminism and prayer.

Randomness and luck, fate and providence. How do these facets of life relate to one another? Or is everything, actually, mechanically determined with synchronicities, say, being no more than coincidences?
In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon discuss the ways in which philosophers and scientists, ancient and modern, have imagined and explored notions of causality and sympathy in nature, alongside fortune and calamities.
The ideas of Aristotle and Boethius provide a striking background against which to consider more recent scientific work.
Rupert also demonstrates how fields can influence seemingly random effects using a Galton Board - a remarkably profound analogue for, say, practices such as prayer.

[@martinrea8548]

Nice, interesting conversation. I could go for beers with these guys. That Galton Board is cool. 👍

[@vidyakara]

This video will be a classic. The palpable eagerness to share your ideas, the ordering of the material, the use of the Galton Board and the clarity on a subject I find usually elicits confusion or scepticism. Thank you both.

[@louisdebeer2055]

❤❤❤ much love to both of you

[@EbbandFlow1234]

1 view, 1 min, 1 like, me.. You don't get what you want You get what you need. But people can also ask on a person's behalf through prayers. Divination, casting. I'm studying and practising tarot, and numerology.. Dreams give us answers. Routine is a ritual. We reinforce it over and over walking the same trodden paths. I'm not saying routines are a bad thing but neither is spontaneity. Like the sine waves up and down, flowing. El Nino El Nina. So tweak the magnetics and control the field's? Like an imprint.. Excellent, Thankyou both of you.

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

Excellent and ordinary are RELATIVE. 😉 Incidentally, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@pentagrammaton6793]

Small scale determination, like crystal formation, is a result of form; form is an expression of inner nature; inner nature is a consequence of the expression of a type of consciousness. If all parts of nature are therefore conscious, then determinism is shaped by the active interaction of fundamental patterns with their environments. Determinism must therefore be fluid, and so every outcome cannot be known in advance due to the balancing of conscious intent with an infinity of random events across time.

[@luciadegroseille-noire8073]

Pirsig, in Zen and the art of M.M. wrote that a skilled man can make anything he want s to where an unskilled man can make anything else. I undertake a lot of practical crafts and settle for what is good enough as perfection is beyond me, due to opposition from, mostly, my own unhandiness. We can get close to perfection but it reuires more training, more virtue more investment of money and time: which means that you cannot do whatever it is to the highest possible standard without forgoing many other uses of your resources that you might like to undertake.

[@Creative-os3hx]

Good one.

[@David-dt6gv]

When you realize you will know and be frightened

[@anthonymccarthy4164]

One of the most interesting things to me is how atheists of a scientistic bent turn "random chance," "indeterminacy," and a number of other things, such as "DNA" and "natural selection" into creator gods. I've had any number of them cite those as free-standing, all explanatory explanations of things when they don't explain anything at all. One of my questions about randomness is how anyone could know that randomness exists instead of it being a small area of an order too large or too long for us to see. Though I do actually believe there are random events.

[@TheDAT9]

Ever effect has a cause, every cause has an effect. Seeming random occurrences have a cause which is not know to the observer. The Universe requires balance in all things.

[@julianajones4022]

Theurgic: connecting with God eg Miriam"s and the women's circle dancing after the crossing over from Egypt.

[@markj2305]

since we do not know all it seems illogical/not valid to say things must not be able to be determined.

[@leentorenvliet2162]

By flipping the board you add energy to the board (and flipping it back again). The metal parts lose this energy (or rather transform it to kinetic energy falling down). I'm not sure the energy of gravity stays the same as you are moving the center of gravity of the balls closer to the earths gravitational center. As for the magnets. The iron of the balls and the alignment of the cells in the magnets is certainly influenced. If changes are small, that does not mean they are zero.

[@Berend-ov8of]

What struck me in the whole conversation, is the overwhelming absence of the word 'intend'. This is all random vs. determination, but the various conservation laws are not incorporated and it is all presented as an observation of things that happen anyway, rather than a result of any own intend. Specially when prayer is scorched briefly, this becomes appearant. Praying, when done correctly, constitutes the deliberate creation of a morphogenetic field, and as such is nothing but intend.

[@PlatosPodcasts]

You're right. We didn't get to intention.

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

Morphogenetic? Now THERE'S a new word for you. 😮😅🎉

[@xoxox1011]

Great dialogue... But since it is most certain that this world is a simulation/program (morphic fields as its database (of holistically, but somewhat disharmoniously, organized vehicle forms)), all randomness is actually randomness "by design" (i.e whatever is meant to be "random", is pre-encoded to be mathematically random). As for influences (affecting biased outcome), angels (the only "good guys" in this simulation, encoded with "superior" code, to accompany this simulation and to represent transcendent Divine) and demons (archonic rulers that interfere, but are not pre-encoded like the spiritually benevolent angels), are certainly important to mention. (Pantheistic) "God" is actually an illusion (as "loving" God), is a result of the simulation coding, and is NOT our spiritual "saviour". "Human" mind/souls ("drivers" of organic "vehicles") are trapped in this simulation and this pantheistic "God" is just an overseer (as synergy of all fragmented consioussness(es) happening/manifesting "here") of this prison/"school"/simulation. Our true God is "outside" of this simulation, and can be "communicated' with only through angels, so they help with our salvation and guide our spiritual progress. Thanks! (and all the best to the good souls bringing us these valuable dialogues)...

[@mattbutler6742]

Where can I buy the Sheldrake/Vernon Galton board? You might have missed a monetisation opportunity there..

[@luciadegroseille-noire8073]

Regarding magnetism: magnetos will eventually require re - magnetisation with use. I don't know if this is purely from energy transfer from working. Does anyone know?

[@PlatosPodcasts]

That's true, but I think the more significant physics is that magentic fields don't do work because of the Lorentz force law.

[@ericchristen2623]

Randomness is not a scientific concept. Its a reality that science, amongst many others, has discovered and chose to study. Artists are better qualified to discuss this arena...😊

[@ericchristen2623]

The philosopher fills in the background...they are great fillers...😅

[@David-dt6gv]

🙄

[@NGC-catseye]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.