A Critical Analysis of Final Fantasy XVI

[@Toksyuryel]

I must be no one then because this "game for no one" is absolutely for me

[@IzunaSlap]

Its like Square read my mind and created exactly the game I personally wanted.

[@ItalianAvalanche]

I thought it was great. They missed the mark in a few places but overall I thought it was terrific. It bothered me that you only got to see cities while they were being sieged and most of the visitable areas were little outposts. XV has the same problem but worse because almost every visitable location was a gas station. I also didn’t ever really feel like my team was in any danger as the game basically immediately puts half the worlds Eikons on the players team.

[@parzival123]

its for people who want a story not a game

[@soracool1234]

​@@parzival123Not a game? The gameplay is still great, if you like hack & slash style games. There's plenty of combo capability, plenty of combat variation with the eikon abilities and system and plenty of fights that test your ability to interact with those mechanics. I can understand people having an issue with FF15s combat system being a bit too simple but 16s I can't agree with at all. I find it very similar to the people that said GoW 2018 and Ragnaroks combat was button mashy and had little depth. Which far from the truth, as It's only like that if YOU decide to play it like that.

[@jorgechi4627]

A game for DMC fans btw

I love FFXVI and acknowledge all its flaws. The combat is very fun. The side quests are insufferable. Someone said they got better in the second half of the game but no. They're always the same fetch tasks with boring dialogue and insignificant rewards. The story is pretty cool, and the worldbuilding very interesting. Too bad the explorable world itself feels empty. Vast, beautiful and empty.

[@Dzzy123]

The story got worse as it went on after Benedikta died. Once she died, the other Dominants felt like they were villains of the week. The Hugo arc was silly and I felt his character never made sense. Dion's arc was great. Barnabas was a huge disappointment once we learn that he's just a servant for Ultima. Every sword feels the same as the last. Why didn't they take a page out of IX and have each weapon come with a new ability attached? It might have made the swords feel more unique. Also, why can't Clive wield great swords? That could have affected the way the player has to time button presses to achieve combos.

[@d2solo]

bad bait

[@D34DCRU153R]

This game is so bad and just bland and boring. My friend who's only played this and 7 keeps recommending it to me but I don't know how to break it to her that I played it on launch and fucking hated it 💔💔

[@TheTinyTimmyTimTim]

The story is awful on a fundamental level. The basic plot events that underpin the entire story are completely incoherent. Clive “kills” Joshua, except he’s not dead because he has a legion of super secret, hyper competent Illuminati ninjas conveniently loyal to him and only him that are never even remotely hinted or foreshadowed whatsoever. They save him and he decided to just…hide for a decade? For no reason? He let his brother wallow in torture and slavery for years, letting him believe he’d murdered his younger brother, without so much as a note or anything. And then when Clive finds out he’s alive, he STILL runs from him for another 5 years for NO reason. Completely contrived made up nonsense because they wanted their own version of “Jon snow and Bran stark/Rob stark reunite”. It’s so painfully dumb and derivative, the characters nonsensical shit strictly to move the plot along because they’re cardboard cutouts with no personality or agency. The entire game is riddled with shit like this. Cid has a qanon theory with NO evidence that the crystals are the source of the blight, and somehow Jill + Clive after having known this guy for like 29 minutes make it their life’s mission to become international terrorists and blow up the crystals which are potentially the lifeblood of the entire planet. None of them even question it for more than a second. They blow up crystals, the blight gets even worse, and they keep doing it despite having NO evidence they’re doing something good. Again, it’s just being derivative of FF7 and the mako reactors. Ultima appears as a vision to Clive multiple times throughout the game…in the form of Joshua? …why? What is the utility there? It’s never explained and he has no reason to do that. It’s cheap bullshit designed to trick the player because there’s no tension since they reveal super early that Joshua isn’t dead so Clive’s whole “waaaaah I killed my baby bro” shit is undercut not even 5 hours in. I’d fail a remedial, community college creative writing class if I turned in a script like this. It doesn’t make a single bit of sense

[@d2solo]

@ writing all this for a game u “hate” definitely is a choice.

[@OmarO_721]

Honestly regarding Active Time Lore. Whenever the Final Fantasy XIII Trilogy Remaster comes out, these games could seriously use Active Time Lore, that way the datalog entries you need to know can be accessed immediately

[@CelestialLimbo]

I like the Active Time Lore feature conceptually, but I don't like how it was used in FFXVI. A story should fundamentally be able to stand on its own. You don't need a supplemental dictionary next to you. I have the impression that the ATL feature was born after feedback that the story was too complex to follow. So while I like the idea of the ATL, I feel in this case it was used as a crutch for the story.

[@poisonvolkswagon9431]

@@CelestialLimbo I disagree. The main problem I have with JRPGs is over exposition. in FF16 I wanted to actually learn about the lore myself and it is more interesting as a player

[@CelestialLimbo]

@@poisonvolkswagon9431 There's a distinction between supplemental lore (FFXIII Datalogs, FFXII Bestiary, etc) and using a lore-function as a crutch because your story isn't delivered optimally. I don't think this is a big minus for XVI but I do believe the ATL feature got introduced because the script is admittedly verbose. The English script even more so, since they have two terms for each faction (JP script doesn't have that I believe).

[@poisonvolkswagon9431]

@@CelestialLimbo Oh yes I see now. Defo there's an element of that. Since I've grown tired of over exposition, I was happy to spend my time filling the gaps. It reminded a bit of Dark Souls. In terms of been verbose, nothing compares to Trails series so as long as it isn't like that is fine for me. Game has flaws but in general I was surprised they went for a grittier and more mature tone which is reflected in the script

[@R83145]

The "mature" story that seems to consist mainly of cheap shock effects and overused plot devices.

[@gnuwaves743]

Gotta be Game of Thrones.

[@MarkHogan994]

@@gnuwaves743 This game wishes it was GoT. Early GoT knew how to make politics compelling. It knew how to masterfully weave dozens of plot threads across a massive world with dozens of complex characters. It knew how to use adult themes in a thought provoking way. FF16 failed on all of those fronts. The writers had no clue how to imitate GoT successfully. They just thought being edgy and political was enough.

[@Dabedidabe]

It really is disheartening to see so many people falling for it when they pretend to be mature, deep and intricate, while being none of those things.

[@TheTinyTimmyTimTim]

@@Dabedidabethere have been worse stories, but FFXVI is so offensive in the WAY it’s bad because so many people have fallen for it. So many “gamers” have eaten it up. Make this exact plot an animated film and it would bomb with a tomato score of 20%. Adapting it into a novel would require an entire re-write because the game basically has no actual characters outside of Clive and Cid. Video game writing is in a DIRE place man, it’s incredibly depressing

[@cantbehelped]

I liked the game, but I like DMC type games as well as action RPGs and turn based RPGs. I really felt a lot of the game was watered down with linear stats/equip/level progression but I enjoyed the characters, the voice acting and the setting. However, I dont really see myself going back to replay it in Final Fantasy Mode, hell I didnt even finish the DLC yet. I've accepted that a new numbered turn-based FF game isnt ever happening again. I got bored of FF14 because MMOs arent my jam but I'll accept that the devs are more in their element in that space. So many people have tried to sell me on 14 being the best FF ever but I dont see it, Im too attached to singleplayer experiences- feels more personal and meaningful to me. Still I'm at a point in my life where I have stopped caring about what makes something a "true entry" in whatever series and just go on a "did I enjoy it/parts of it" or "did it make me not want to continue playing" and through that lens Ive been a lot more content with the state of everything I fell in love with as a young player changing over time in this industry

[@CrayonCruncher]

FF14 is a single-player game with MMO elements. And you don't even have to play the MSQ multiplayer anymore at all. You just have to have the patience to read and get through the "world building" part of the very long story being told and remember that each expansion is a single, full-length video game, not a new "part" of a netflix show or "DLC". Sure, not every cutscene is voiced and full of spectacle, but I think it really is just a game for people who liked to read and understand the flow of good storytelling. Overall, it really is the best storytelling the devs at Square have to offer, so I'd recommend you try again with these things in mind... if you do try again sometime.

[@Nastara]

My issue with FF14 is that the same watered-down stat/equip/level progression plagues that game. And the good story is far away. Played for hours through braindead gameplay and never reached the good story.

[@budigunawan1677]

This is more like PS3 era God of War with Game of Thrones vibe

[@gnuwaves743]

I’d like a “spiritual successor” to ff9 or ff10. Doesn’t need to be made by square enix or have AAA graphics. Just a game that carries the spirit of those entries. With qol updates and a fun cast. There’s enough room in the industry for those games to exist. But those games are probably very hard to replicate.

[@budigunawan1677]

@gnuwaves743 yeah probably indie devs are the best bet although it should be cheap enough to produce for Squeenix too since they're going back to pixel-based with Octopath Travelers. Thanks for not hating on FF 16 like those haters that act like the game ran over their dogs even after more than a year...

[@fl8518]

SE keep chasing the "COD market" that doesn't exist for a final fantasy game, it blows my mind that after all these years they don't understand this, FF16 started for me as 9/10 and end up as 6/10 BTW How the effing f.... you don't have an FF game without proper companions?? that's just pure blasphemy decision, can you imagine FF9 or 10 companion like 16? Bruh! this is a big L to Yoshi-P

[@gnuwaves743]

Totally agree. Party members are a defining part of JRPGs. Even if they aren’t playable. They could have made this a DMC spin off if they cut the side quests. I think it honestly would have sold better.

[@asdfghjkllkjhgfdsa8725]

Meanwhile metaphor is proving actual jrpgs still crush. Imagine if square released a true final fantasy.

[@cirmothe9]

Y'know what's freaking weird? I'm starting to miss Final Fantasy XIII.

[@xiiir838]

There's a XIII-2 demo if you still have a PS3 or can get one. I played that and XIII-3 demos and they make me buy the whole trilogy an playe it. Narratively weak games, but XIII-2 combat and time travel mechanics are great, and Lighting Returns combat/job system is one of the best I've played in the series. I encourage you to play them

[@Unordinary-lg4yt]

All of the sudden the older entries start looking good. Same old story with you people. Two entries later this game will start “looking good.” Ingrates, I tell you.

[@IzunaSlap]

Lets not get carried away now

[@IzunaSlap]

@@Unordinary-lg4yt Its called the Zelda Effect

[@TrvisXXIII]

Absence makes the heart grow fonder

[@xleaselife]

I've written novellas about why I disliked this game. The more time that passed after finishing it, the more my opinion soured. Everything about this game felt surface level, from the themes, to the characters, to the combat.

[@NAzo.]

Dude I am the same way. Reading people saying this is up there with the other FF on their tier list feels me with revulsion and disgust and makes me question if they know what good story telling is and what makes FF FF? This crap up and down pretends to be an RPG after showering people with a strong opening but once that make up wears off you see it for what it is. It didn't help me that I detested the combat system from the start. I tried giving it a chance like with FF13 but nope.

[@artjom94]

@@NAzo. Look at him knowing what FF is more than the people who made most of them and said that FF is whatever the team decides it is for every given installment. It must suck to be stuck in a pretentious "real FF" bubble and be dunked on even by the series creator himself.

[@NAzo.]

@@artjom94 It must suck that you're so mentally weak incapable of producing an original thought to defend your turd of a game called FF16 that you needed security by citing the FF creator as if that was going to invalidate hardcore fans like me from shitting on FF16 not including it as part of the mainline and calling it not a real FF with numerous reasons on why that exactly is the case which most likely means you could care less about the criticism and want folks to be as r3tarded and stoopid as you in blindly loving the game and accepting it Yeah, let's ignore legitimate criticism and keep wondering why their sales number have been dwindling believing that they can have numbers like those of FF15 not realizing the only reason was because of the drought of a new FF title being absent for years, a large marketing push, and an install base on the PS4 3 years into it's life made it successful. It's not because they've been trying to cater to an ADHD crowd who never gave a crap about them while giving the middle finger to their real fanbase leaving the thrown room empty for the taking. Meanwhile other corpo's have taken upon themselves to feed this starving fanbase and actually succeeding. Shouldn't you be enjoying yourself on some ADHD action games? Then listening to the rant of a hardcore FF fan?

[@X-Cactus]

​​​@@artjom94Whats that supposed to mean? None of that doesn't mean anything if the game is shit. To me, FFXVI is a movie game with nothing much going for it. Final Fantasy is more shallow and mainstream than it's ever been. Like I could give a fuck what the dev team considers a Final Fantasy. I don't consider it one and I'll never support it. And i dont give a fuck what Sakaguchi has to say if he's defending this trash heap and Square's stupid decisions.

[@d2solo]

@@NAzo.bad rage bait

[@nunyabsniss1432]

I wanted to like the gane, it had a lot going for it with art direction and story. But the trend chasing has to stop. They used to drive the industry, now they are pushing out mediocre Action RPGs in the house of genre defining RPGs. I don't want to play a worse DMC when I play Final Fantasy.

[@TonberryChuck]

I have a love-hate relationship with the game. I loved the gameplay, the aesthetic, and the kaiju battles, but the gameplay is unable to hold up how bloated the story gets in terms of length and the story itself took a massive nosedive once Cid died and never recovered, becoming a surface-level retreading of old FF tropes given a Game of Thrones paint job. Squeenix no longer has an excuse to not make the next mainline game turn based again, because turn based games is still killing it today.

[@archdetective]

First half was great. The later half was filled with expectations that were never met. It's an ok game. But as a long time fan, I don't expect FF to be just ok.

[@aperture_v2]

I'm sorry, I immediately disagree. I loved ff16.

[@xiiir838]

How does it feel being in the minority?

[@Dermetsu]

@@xiiir838 It was well received by both fans and critics alike, how does it feel to be blinded by nostalgia? Metacritc, Open Critic and Steam Reviewers are all positive.

[@xiiir838]

@@Dermetsu 😂 aha, that's why there's almost no videos over 80k (sometimes even less) talking about the game, that's why the vast majority of the content of this game is negative or indifferent instead of overwhelmingly positive. I'm 25 years old. I played my first final fantasy ever in 2021 and I haven't stopped trying to play them all ever since. If your only argument against me is straight up making up BS without evidence that speaks volumes, not only about you, but about the entirety of the FFXVI fan base that uses the same petty tactics to deflect criticism or attack the critics.

[@Dermetsu]

@@xiiir838 Made things up? You came here with the source, "trust me bro" while citing it not having enough retrospectives as if that means ANYTHING? Metacritic PS5/PC: 87 Critic Score/8.2 User Score Opencritic PS5/PC: 88 Critic Score/80 Player Score Steam Reviews: Mostly Positive with 77% of 7,600 reviews being positive Every viewable metric that we the player can see show the game was generally well liked, your feelings don't change the general reception at all.

[@MobikSaysStuff]

@@xiiir838 It's one of the most profitable Final Fantasy's ever made. This is the direction they will move now. Cope with the fact that no one wants to play your old ass turn based trash, keep screaming at the clouds, old man.

[@SacrificAbominat]

I don't doubt that what fans of 14 have been saying about how good that game is, but I definitely think they dropped the ball gameplay wise with 16. If you want a better take on the Kaiju Battles check out CyberConnect2's Asura's Wrath, heck their Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm series probably does them better too. It's only 8 or so hours long so it doesn't overstay it's welcome either. Even though it's a 7th gen game I'd say it has significantly more hype moments than 16's most hype points. Oh you're going into space of fight Bahamut that's cool. The first boss of Asura's Wrath literally becomes the side of the planet and tries to crush you with his finger. It's hard to top punching a planet sized god's finger until he explodes, but Asura's Wrath does crazier stuff as you go through it. I will definitely say that gameplay wise it's not super strong, but if you just want dumb fun with a pretty heartfelt story it's a great interactive anime. Go with Devil May Cry or Bayonetta if you want a solid character action combat system. I'd also argue as much as the 13 trilogy got a lot of flack for it's pacing and combat those games are better than 15 and 16. Lightning Returns also has a way better more strategic character action combat system. The one thing I will definitely praise 16 for is it's story. Heck I stopped playing and just watched the cutscenes after a while and enjoyed doing that much more. I think the first half is solid while the second half is quite a bit weaker, but overall I thought it was very well written. My only complaint is the main villain kind of sucks, but I think the other villains hold this story up pretty well.

[@jsrobert20]

Loved the combat system and the story hooked me early. By the halfway point I was rushing just to finish it - way too few enemy types, boring envs, and a straightforward story. QTEs in '24? Stopped saying the old "would have been great if not named FF" years ago, the classic FF has been gone for nearly 20 years. Would have been better as a 10 hour game.

[@alanlee67]

Yea it grabbed me for a bit in the beginning. Boss battles were fun but trash mobs were completely pointless. I gave up after I got garuda.

[@brennenhorton2493]

Your review makes me think this game could greatly benefit from an Atlus style re-release, or dare I say - A Realm Reborn style re-release. They could easily overhaul the combat, add more variety, mini-games etc if they wanted to.

[@jiggerypokery2962]

Final Fantasy XVI is for me. I have 152 hours in it. Beat it 3x and did the DLC. The game is just pure fun. Gamers just don't want new and unique stuff, the want the same old comfort food.

[@budigunawan1677]

The SJWs are still hating on it because it has no black characters

[@carbxncle]

BUT WHY CAN'T WE HAVE YET ANOTHER FF7 RELAUNCH AND GET TO PLAY AS A 16 YEAR OLD CHILD OR A FEMBOY??? 😂😂😂

[@ellie-vii]

@@budigunawan1677 oh what do you know, another "anti-woke" gamer who actually thinks hes smart. comment section comedy. 😍

[@budigunawan1677]

@ellie-vii oh look another judgmental Karen on the internet.

[@ellie-vii]

@@budigunawan1677 cute

[@jacquelinewarner-smith1770]

Final Fantasy XVI makes me terrified for the future of Dragon Quest (which is my favourite game series). Apparently, Dragon Quest XII is going to be geared towards a more mature audience. I don't want them to do to Dragon Quest what they did to this game. That would break my heart.

[@gnuwaves743]

I keep forgetting that game is still under development. It’s crazy we still haven’t seen anything yet. I’m really curious how they will approach the art style with games going foward. I’m sure art team for the next game will try to emulate Toriyamas work as best they can. But Toriyama was constantly evolving his style. Will they too evolve or keep it the same as DQ11 for the next several games? I’m positive they’d never make any drastic changes, Like FF.

[@Dabedidabe]

Funny how a "mature" audience generally means edgy teens. 😅

[@Damon242]

The franchise really ought to return to turn based combat, not just because it’s consistent with all of the mainline entries before 11 but it carries over into party roles and dynamics which all further feed into the storytelling; the story becomes much less about the team when it becomes a main character power fantasy. There’s no reason another franchise couldn’t exist for this sort of action combat but it never needed to be Final Fantasy.

[@xiiir838]

Please, stop calling it turn based. It gives the genre a horrible pr. Call it what it actually is, an STRATEGY game.

[@Dermetsu]

@@xiiir838 Final Fantasy has never been strategic, quit trolling.

[@xiiir838]

@@Dermetsu you have never played a final fantasy game outside of XVI, that much is clear by now. Shut it

[@Dermetsu]

@@xiiir838 nice one buddy. Lifetime Final Fantasy fan here, you're just a blind fanboy who's mad that yet another FF was different from the prior title. Final Fantasy is known for its world building, epic stories and lovable casts, not for strategic gameplay. FF1 began the franchise being able to beat the entire game using 4 warriors and their basic attack, something you can do in virtually all of these titles unlike most other jrpg franchises. I think it's you who doesn't know shit about the series, or you just suck at gaming.

[@Dermetsu]

@@xiiir838 nice try buddy, but I'm a lifelong Final Fantasy fan who's finished every title that's not an MMO. You cannot tell me with a straight face that FF1, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FF13, or FF14 are in any way challenging or strategic games, even within the JRPG subgenre. Since you only started in 2021, you were probably unaware that the early games we got in the west were the easy-type versions, as they thought Americans were too simple for the games. That means unless you played them in original japanese on original hardware or a fan romhack restoring the balance, 1-6 were all on game journalist difficulty, something none of the re-releases really fixed besides FF4 on the DS. Those pixel remasters are actually easier than the easy-type versions we got due to balance and QOL changes. FF1 can be beaten with a team of 4 warriors using basic attack, hell you could apply this to most of the games like 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, FF8 can be beaten without leveling once just spamming GFs due to level scaling. Unless you're going for end game side content, virtually none of these games can remotely be called strategic unless you count the lone strategy game Tactics. I've also been around long enough to see the fandom do what you're doing right now, every new game isn't a true final fantasy and you attack the fans who don't care or expect Final Fantasy to change with each iteration. I can still remember when FF7 was a fake final fantasy that ruined the franchise, or when the much beloved X was called a franchise ender for being linear and dropping staples like the overworld map. I'm sorry that YOU didn't enjoy 16, but going around trying to call out others or claiming easily conformable user metrics are fake data just make you look silly and irrational.

[@FinalDragoon63]

As a longtime fan of Final Fantasy games, FFXVI's terrible delivery broke my heart. Combat was mediocre and non-challenging. The RPG aspects were watered down and meaningless. The story was droll, uninteresting and felt like a copy of a copy. Its Final Fantasy XVI: Mystic Quest.

[@gilded_lady]

FF is no longer for me and that just makes me sad. But thankfully Atlus is still nailing it.

[@dontmatter1368]

Eh we get older, tastes change, quality definitely going down all across the board of all entertainment out there. One door closes leaving you with more time to explore opening others. Don't sweat it 😅

[@Dinomight125]

FACTS, I miss the old days back when FF was turned based. Hot take, but if I wanted to play DMC gameplay, i'd play DMC. I love both series don't get me wrong, but Final Fantasy just isn't what it used to be.

[@longphan7656]

@@Dinomight125 i mean its like 1 game out of 30 games the DMC dev is allergic to making DMC content so with FF having a DMC dev designing the combat, this is basically DMC 6 for me. It could be another 15 years before DMC 6 come out

[@Dinomight125]

@@longphan7656 Honestly, I feel that. Not even sure where'd they go story wise for the new DMC. We gonna be waiting for a while for a new one XD

[@gilded_lady]

@@aprile1710 I've played everything launched in the west minus Sky trilogy, because I really don't like gaming on my laptop and Estelle is kiiinda annoying in the few hours I've tried. I do intend to give the remake a fair shake though when it launches. It's kinda ridiculous but I do love that franchise.

[@cjlake1233]

Negatives: 1. You can’t explore the nation’s capital cities. 2. You can’t walk through the world equivalent to FF7 Rebirth. If you could visit the major cities in the game equivalent to what Assassins Creed let’s you. I’d love it as much as Rebirth.

[@Sweetwaterdream]

Final Fantasy 16s story felt like promise unfulfilled. It kind of fell apart after the first half and became much less interesting and certain characters i thought would become very interesting just didnt in the end. It also seems like Yoshi-P cant really design interesting side quests 😅. The combat was actually quite fun at the start but then slowly became bland and the abilities were very overpowered. It was also sad your “party members” werent customisable and were just window dressing. It didnt feel like a team based game which is something i always enjoyed in Final Fantasy.

[@paledrake]

You summed up all my thoughts.

[@ItalianAvalanche]

Yeah it seems like they put all their development into Eikon fights and neglected a lot of world-building and explorable cities. It really others me that you can only visit cities while they’re under siege. You can’t EVER visit the port city despite Clive’s uncle running it. That was very disappointing to me.

[@TheHeavenlyBeast]

Saying how FF is a series that pushes itself and evolves, but then bringing up how it probably should've stayed turn-based (which I vehemently disagree with) is incredibly contradictory. You can only make turn-based so revolutionary before there's no point considering all the mechanic is about is waiting your turn and hoping your attack not only lands but does significant damage to the opponent. I'll agree that the combat could've been better, but I'm proud of Square for actually trying. Even they said these games are about innovation, so it was only a matter of time before they switched the combat style.

[@hatertime]

FF16 was fine.

[@gnuwaves743]

I’ll give it a shot. Just waiting on that discount. But Japanese publishers can be stingy about that.

[@AzureRoxe]

Very weak fine.

[@hatertime]

@AzureRoxe I actually think is was really good. It's one of my favorite Character Action games since Nier Automata, but for the sake of diplomacy I said "fine."

[@NAzo.]

@@gnuwaves743 It will drop but it will take awhile. FF7 remake came down eventually so I'm sure that too. I just hope you don't fall for the deceit of FF16 and that it's a FF game. If you don't treat it as a FF game maybe will b ok if you can manage getting by with the other stuff. Don't compare Nier to this crap.

[@ZandatsuGaming]

sales was not. defend it all you want. but in the end you are just another numbers to SE. and the numbers doesnt make it

[@miahthepisces3813]

I played through 16 for the first time last year and upon finishing it I felt empty. The ending made me cry because while I didn’t really love the story that much I did grow attached to Clive but I remember not really liking the overall experience my first time. after playing through it a second time the cracks really started to show for me. The monotonous gameplay, lack of party members, boring side quest, just really made me not love the game which made me really sad because I love final fantasy and really wanted to love this one considering we’re probably not getting another one anytime soon but I just couldn’t enjoy it. I know square really wanted to make a ff that would bring in new fans while also doing something new but it just left a really bad taste in my mouth. I feel like there’s still so much potential to make a great final fantasy with a fun versatile cast of characters, a fun fresh battle system that can incorporate elements of turn based, or active time battle type combat, a immersive world with lots of exploration and GOOD side quest, and decent story that’s easy to follow yet super intriguing but square just wants to keep trying to please everyone while also trying to appeal to new players.

[@irvyne6111]

I feel like I should just take a deep breath and admit that the series I fell in love with is dead, and it's not coming back. I am not a fan of the direction FF15 and FF16 have gone in. But something in me feels like there might still be a glimmer of hope that the series could find its way again... Maybe...

[@Dabedidabe]

Same here. I sold my copy of ffxvi and decided I will probably not be buying ffxvii. Unless they make big changes back to form of course. It'll just be difficult to gauge, because big releases always get so much prais nowadays, it's hard to determine actual quality from reviews.

[@thepeanutter9972]

This game is honestly just too long. If the game were just its instanced levels it would be far shorter and made up of just the highlights of the story (90% of the open zone content is literal bloat anyway). It would also make the gaps between new Eikon abilities far shorter. Clive is a fantastic protagonist and he shines far above the supporting cast. A more personal narrative about Clive's vengeance against the other dominants would've been far more appropriate rather than a plot about humanity working together which doesn't fit the solo action gameplay. Honestly still a decent game regardless.

[@soracool1234]

While I dont agree with most of what you said I can agree that they could have cut down the run time a bit overall. Mostly in regards to the downtime main quests that happen after each big event, but I don't think just making the game more instanced level based would have been good. It probably would have made people feel more like it was FF13. And I really don't think a story more about Clive wanting revenge against the dominants would have been any better. Because the way the world is and him as a character, I think it would drastically diminish him as a character and wouldn't make much sense to the overall plot. Clive never had beef with the other dominants since he knows how dominants and bearers are treated by the world. They're usually either controlled by their nation to be used as weapons or just treated like literal shit. So why would he want to go on a war path specifically against the dominants? Outside of the one he thought destroyed his home and killed his brother. And it makes sense that even now he's still mostly solo in his journey to destroy the crystals because other than him, who else can? Most of the supporting cast are nowhere near as strong as he is and are in hiding supporting in the shadows to not be found out have everything they known be completely fucked. Hugo Kupka showed why that's very important.

[@cozysushipm]

Can’t stress enough how happy seeing this video made me. I felt crazy last year when I told people I hated the game, but everyone loved it. I couldn’t see the appeal and kept thinking about ho Kingdom Hearts did this game’s combat (and even some story) better all those years ago. All this spectacle doesn’t save the game from being not fun or having a good story. It just feels so forgettable and a slog to get through

[@Zer0Hour17]

If you think KH’s combat is better you’re actually trash at video games. KH wishes it had the options ff16 has.

[@Nastara]

@@Zer0Hour17 The thing is that the final mix versions of KH 1, 2, and 3 respect the players intelligence despite the simpler mechanics. Also Kingdom Hearts game aren’t bloated with MMO sidequest content. Kingdom Hearts 2 has the best paced ability unlocks in the history of action games. Sora’s progression in abilities is like a boiling frog in a good way. The amount of power and options he gets from the start to the end game is absurd in the best way. The reason why Devil May Cry wins where FF16 fails is that you are incentivized to get better. The style system and the scoring system keeps reminding you to do better. And better you play the closer you are to being as stylish and overpowered as Dante.

[@cozysushipm]

@@Zer0Hour17 Got that shit in complete reverse. FF16 wishes it had anything KH2 has lol. FF16 is one of the easiest games I’ve ever played. Not even close to KH2 crit

[@Zer0Hour17]

@@cozysushipm kh2 level 1 crit is a fucking joke.

[@Zer0Hour17]

@@Nastara if you need a letter in the corner for you to want to be stylish, you have severe tik tok brain.

[@LethargyPike]

Im a new final fantasy fan, my first one was 15 so 16 was a step up for me. Can't relate to the criticisms the same way you all do

[@kam_3953]

To my understanding 16 has and done everything that FF is and was, shaking things up and changed things. The thing is they don't like it. That's it. That's fine. It's okay to dislike it but people these days feel the need to dramatize their dislike or make a spectacle of it. 16 is a FF to it's core. Great game.

[@xiiir838]

​@@kam_3953uh, who told you that tho? Because he/she is blatantly LYING to you. 16 does nothing the previous fourteen mainline games did. For starters, it doesn't even have a single RPG element, either from the franchise or from any other RPG franchise

[@kam_3953]

@xiiir838 16 isnt an rpg. It's a FF yes

[@xiiir838]

@@kam_3953 Of course it is a Final Fantasy. It has the name on it. 13 is also a FF game, that weird Gauntlet Crystal Chronicles also is a FF game. That doesn't mean they're good

[@kam_3953]

@xiiir838 that's just an opinion. What's good is subjective to the individual. I liked 16 it was good for me.

[@garitobee7541]

The first 1/3rd of the game is the honeymoon phase, after that it falls apart. The combat is fun when you're first learning it and unlocking abilities and Eikons, but then it gets very repetitive and boring. The enemy variety and the fact that every single enemy in the game, from the tutorial fight to the final boss, is killed in the exact same way is ridiculous. Dodge always works for everything and is very forgiving. You are never challenged or taken out of your comfort zone in this game. CBUIII went for the old "Play the game how YOU want to play!" which inevitably means the game is bland - in order to play how YOU want to play, everything has to be viable no matter what, which limits encounter design. The game never requires you to think or strategize in any way. You are never required to change your Eikon loadout because everything always works, which makes anything other than the most OP combination sort of silly. "But what about the fun of trying different loadouts?" This game is so damn long, I already tried all the different Eikons and loadouts by 2/3rds through the game in the training area. Once I realized that Eikon combinations don't matter in any real way, you can literally take whatever you want and win, and the enemies are boring to fight because you've encountered everything the game is going to throw at you by 2/3rd through, I just went with the path of least resistance. In other words, the game got boring and I wanted it to end as quickly as possible. And I have to say... the soundtrack to this game is dull. I never thought I would play a Final Fantasy game where I never go back and listen to a track on KZbin. I played FF14, I know what Soken is capable of, and I was completely disappointed that he brought none of that to this game. What the fuck happened to him during development? This music he created is BORING. To be sure, the soundtrack isn't bad, it's just not great. The best word to describe it is "Generic". This is a very generic-sounding JRPG soundtrack. It fits the mood, but it doesn't excite. Here or there there are moments of excitement and beauty, but they are so, so rare. I finally decided the soundtrack was mid when I got to the desert area. It was the most generic, vaguely-arabic sounding music I've heard. The title of that track should be "Desert Theme in a video game #5512" - that's how dull it is.

[@Dabedidabe]

Yeah, sounds pretty close to my experience as well. I tend to finish games I started, this one I basically started speedrunning halfway through. Unfortunately the story also continued to get worse. D:

[@Breton-m6b]

I like ffxvi but my favorite way to explain it is you spend 13 years trying to avenge your brothers death, only to find out you killed him, and he isnt dead.

[@Retro666nvst]

I got the plat, but this was one of the weaker entries in the series for me. It felt too similar to XV

[@zerorisker9161]

Bought it, started it…set it aside for a month. Went back, have played a significant amount…and then didn’t touch it for months and uninstalled. I really want to go back back finish it because I have played and finished every non-MMO FF, but the game has given me nothing to make me care thus far.

[@Jackjackalex]

It took me a whole year to finally finish it and I still felt my time was wasted.

[@Mr.Gator15]

Hating on FF16 in 2024 is absolutely fucking wild Edit: After finally finishing this video (sorry it took so long) I wanna actually talk about it. Firstly the first half of this video felt like a genuine and fair critique (I also want to mention this is my first ff so I will definitely be biased) though some things felt so unbelievably unfair for example your complaint about the fighting feeling repetitive is something you actively disproved with your background footage as it has different moves but they aren't explained well like stomp or downthrust they have multiple variations too or your complaint about the fluff or the boring quests they are supposed to be world building quest every single quest big or not is meant to connect you to the world. Another point i didn't like was your "where's blitzball" complaint as though it doesn't have that the game itself gives you shit to do so I felt that second half felt so mean spirited and felt so unfair to the game. Again this is my first ff so I'm biased and even then certain complaints I see are some i can agree with like the lack of a party or the simple mini games I've seen what other ffs can be like for example 10 is the one my brother plays and he fell in love and i can see why but if you view this game from a perspective of just a game not a final fantasy you can easily see that a lot of criticism is just nostalgia but some points you made were more than valid so yeah i can see where this review is coming from all in all you gained the sub also my favourite eikon fight was either vs titan lost or vs bahamut✊

[@gnuwaves743]

Too late or too soon?

[@IzunaSlap]

Considering there are far worse, horribly worse games coming out, wasting time hating on FFXVI is laughable.

[@Mr.Gator15]

@@gnuwaves743 as in it came out a year ago and no matter how you slice it it's a great game unless you simply don't like the genre itself and yet somehow not realising this in 2024 is insane let's just hate on all action based story games like fuck all of god of war or fuck asuras wrath

[@Xoulrath_]

​@@Mr.Gator15you said it in your own comment and don't get why people hate on it. Pathetic.

[@bucket9486]

@@IzunaSlap yes because everyone on the internet has to be talking about the same games all at the same time without exceptions (backlogs and personal interests do not exist)

[@GatheredMyst]

Very well done video, and I agree with every point... ... Except the narrative. It was about as messy as the combat, and for more reasons than its pacing. It didn't really do anything meaningful with its world building, and left too many plot points unfinished. Take the conflict between the nations as an example. What is started with such bombast eventually becomes background noise; inconsequential to the story, and glazed over at a map table by some ladys exposition. It doesn't impact the story at all after a point, so they just glaze over it. Then you have the character writing, which progresses in fits and spurts without threading the needle. Jill's relationship with Clive doesn't have enough meaningful setup, and then suddenly they're naked on the beach together. The King of Waload moves from meek in the very first cutscene to a fervent of Ultima, all without showing how he moved from point to point in his plotline... ... And don't get me started on Clive's relationships with Joshua. Having them hug a few times is not enough to establish the emotional depth needed for the climax. And it breaks my heart saying all this, too. I was looking forward to the game for over a year; patiently waiting for the PC release, only to be let down to such an extreme degree. Let's hope, indeed, that Square learns their lesson from this, because if this is the future of the franchise, the series is in serious trouble.

[@thelastmastergamer2846]

I mean the his combat critiques were literally disproven by his background gameplay I would like to hear why you think the combat is messy tho. and honestly your jill complaint can be fixed with the jill side quest as some of the side quests do set up the realtionship quite well with jill I would say they set it up decently well seeing as how they experienced several events together like that moon gazing scene, even your Joshua complaint is smoothened but not fixed as I kind of agree with it, and the king of waload was always set up as a mysteryious character seeing as he watched clives battle with titan and such. But I do agree with your complaint on the conflict with the nations as they are brushed past in a little monologue and had a small battle with bahumut and odin

[@sartavin]

A good 15 hour game stretched out to a miserable 50 hour slog. Graphics and VA were good. Everything else was mid to flat out garbage.

[@davidalvarez5659]

After Dawntrail dude, I doubt they are as good as everyone believed they are. 21 hours of story with minimal gameplay.

[@SuperRamos619]

Dawntrail mostly suffers writing missteps. The ideas conveyed in their story wasn't bad, but the execution and focus was imbalanced. Combined with a lowered amount of solo duties left people feeling Dawntrail was a letdown.

[@paledrake]

Even Endwalker was horrible. They totally botched the finale of a 10 year spanning saga. It also retconned a lot of themes and even lore that Shadowbringer, their best expansion story-wise, brought into the series. The time travel doesn't work the same and makes no sense, despite being the same method used in Shadowbringers. It also paints Venat as a struggling saint, while she is the 2nd root cause for everyone's suffering and why most of the universe is now dead. Why? Because she didn't like her people and didn't believe in them, so obviously nuking the entire planet is the logical solution because you disagree.

[@artjom94]

@@paledrake You don't even know what Shadowbringers was about. How do you know what does or doesn't work?

[@paledrake]

@ Yes I did because I played it? What kind of comment is this?

[@Testhotwater]

FF16 needs to die and fail. We need FF JRPG back.

[@MNTAlter]

I'm OK with Square stop doing RPGs, I'm already having Sega, Nintendo, Nihon Falcom, Bandai Namco (sometimes), and even frigging Koei Tecmo. Rest in peace Final Fantasy, your legacy will continue along with other franchises

[@gnuwaves743]

They should bring up the quality of their spin offs. Maybe they could repeat what Atlus did with Persona with something a more light hearted tone.

[@GoldenJoe]

Active Time Lore is an admission that the story is absolutely horrible. Imagine reading a book that comes with another book to explain what’s happening in the first book.

[@notreallydavek7237]

Clive is not a barrer his mother just has him marked as one.

[@TrvisXXIII]

I already love the setup for this video, thank you for not wasting my time

[@OnePolishMoFo]

I like the tone and setting of 16. It puts the fantasy back into Final Fantasy. I however hate the combat so much. The whole time I just want turn based combat with a party of characters and random encounters so I can grind the party into oblivion. My favorite Final Fantasy games are 1, 4 and 6. 16 doesn't hold a candle the those by a long shot. What this game has is spectical. The cutscenes are epic and that's all it has.

[@kephalai]

the reason the game falls flat on its face is the story and the characters are too much of a downer... there is zero fun or adventure, its just borderline depressing story to experience

[@mattappl3119]

Finally, a review that actually discusses the limitations of the games combat. It's fun for a 20-hour game, but definitely not for 40 hours. Plus, it's hot take, but i did not enjoy the narrative, weak characters, no humour, and themes that i didn't feel were explored enough.

[@BrettScr1]

I died a lot in Final Fantasy XVI and I think it was mostly because I just don’t have the attention span to hit and dodge and hit and dodge over and over again minute after minute while waiting for extremely tanky enemies to get staggered. I also sometimes literally could not tell where Clive was because of the obnoxious particle effects, so many sparks flying in every direction. I really liked the world and lore of the game and did not mind the side quests or lack of minigames at all… It might have been a favorite game for me if the combat had been more engaging / strategy-oriented and less flashy.

[@mikelundy9840]

You have my exact thoughts about both 14 and 16. To me even playing on the hardest difficulty, 16 was insanely easy.

[@OskarXCI]

Ultimaniac was easy? What a Gamer.

[@theflashgordon193]

Easy on the hardest difficulty? Don't know how you guys doing. You die in a 3-4 touch. Even if you know enemy pattern I eventually getting hit and it's pretty risky when you had lot of enemy.

[@CelestialLimbo]

FFXVI is a good game, but as you've pointed out in the video it has some flaws too. - The combat could have been more fleshed out, and the difficulty was non-existing in normal mode. - I actually like the side quests' writing but you're right that there is no variety in the side quests' gameplay.

[@Mcortezzzz]

Im dying for this game to come to xbox. Played it on ps5 it was wonderful. Now i have an xbox and hoping it comes over to this side

[@omegaXjammur]

Honestly, I've enjoyed playing FF spin-off games more than the main line games

[@theinimitablejora522]

Ooh, good video essay from good underrated video essayist that I disagree with but enjoy anyway? We dine tonight boys

[@Swillo]

Best game this gen, top 5 in this series. The game I didn’t know I needed and wanted.

[@DemonSlayer648]

Playing FF XVI right now and the game feels phenomenal. The story legitimately feels intense and captivating.

[@Dabedidabe]

Why destroy the crystals, when destroying the first crystal sped up the blight?

[@asdbef3667]

Lol bunch of paid comments

[@ivoten]

I played most of final fantasy games and final fantasy 16 is one of the best amongst them so it's a game definitely for me

[@xiiir838]

What's your favourite part of 6? What version of IV did you played?

[@ivoten]

@@xiiir838 i've played both on playstation 1 , and one of my favourite parts of the 6th is when Edgar and Sabin return to Figaro

[@xiiir838]

@@ivoten damn, I heard the collections in psx are very glitchy and slow. That's why I didn't bought chrono trigger on that console. Have you tried the IV remake in the DS? I recommend it. It's a very different experience, it also has new content, and the script is wonderfully written

[@ivoten]

@xiiir838 on the contrary i've had no problem playing them it was pretty smooth

[@PapaDeusVult]

What you mentioned about combat being the way it is and having no drastic swings in terms of skills you use, or depth, or variations instantly reminds me of a symptom CBU3 suffers from with regard to how they also developed gameplay for Final Fantasy XIV. The whole "damage the boss' stagger bar, and then unload all of your skills during the staggered period" is reminiscent of the so-called "2-minute meta" which is currently the way raids are executed in XIV as of the moment. For those unfamiliar, the 2-minute meta is where every player in the raid pops their party-wide buff cooldowns-giving the party enhanced damage for 20 seconds-and then dump all of their hard-hitting abilities within those 20 seconds in order to get the boss' health down as far as they can. And while those 2-minute cooldowns tick back up to refreshing, they're doing their skill rotations until the two minutes are up, and they do it all over again until the boss is dead. Furthermore, the way that you can fight and kill something higher than your own base level in XVI is pretty much another symptom of how combat design is in XIV. In the MMO, raid fights are basically choreographed dance numbers. You learn the mechanics, you don't get hit by anything, you do your rotation, the boss goes down. It's completely muscle memory and has very little variation-much like the fights in XVI. Now, while I understand the mechanics of XVI were in development well before Endwalker where said 2-minute meta was introduced, it pretty much still serves as a snapshot to that whole MMO design experience that CBU3 has under their belt. With regard to only being able to play as Clive, I agree with you 100%. Considering that Clive acquires the abilities of his party members (who are also Dominants), being able to swap to them mid-fight would have been an opportunity to get a preliminary taste of their move-sets just before Clive acquires them. For instance, swapping into Jill, Cid, or Joshua would give you access to their Eikonic abilities by default. Joshua has Phoenix Shift, Jill has Cold Snap, and Cid has a variation of Blind Justice (maybe without the staff), and then their own abilities on cooldown much like Clive does. This would have made it so that-when you get their abilities-you already know which of their skills you liked to synergize with your playstyle and there's no big learning curve every time you got a new Eikon. At least aside from the ones you get from combat like Benedikta, Bahamut, Titan and Odin

[@Unordinary-lg4yt]

The party swapping would’ve been a novel concept as dictated by plot. Missed opportunity as usual. As for the practice of stagger and then dump, it’s been around since XIII more generally. At this point, it just adds unnecessary padding to rotation for no good reason than to draw out battles. It’s not stimulating or requires any meaningful effort to the challenge than sheer drudgery over time.

[@vizekun9590]

So been reading through comments and yours stands out the most because of the info of 2 minute meta which I'm hearing for by the first time as a newer ff14 player. I think this is the most valid of arguments against ff16 combat style and a really good take. I think I only disagree on the stagger bar take only because of ff7 stagger bar being that if you affect an enemy with certain abilities or elements it makes it go up faster while also applying pressure on them which I think 16 should've applied to its game play to make it better and have the ff7 spell/ability selection with the dominant powers.

[@PapaDeusVult]

@@vizekun9590 There are skills in FF16 which do deal more will damage than actual damage, like Garuda's Aerial Blast-as an example. Or some of the more counter-oriented skills like Heatwave from the Phoenix skill line. The fact does remain that it boxes you into its own meta just like FF14 does with the 2-minute meta. You have to have skills that break the Will gauge while also balancing having skills to use when the stagger happens. Like a 40-60 split-give or take. Otherwise, you'll either break the Will gauge faster but your attack skills aren't as damaging as they should be. Alternatively, you have hard-hitting skills, but no efficient way to break the Will gauge to maximize the damage they deal

[@MrBas-cu7dt]

all that XVI show to me is that Yoshida is a great project manager, but he should stay the fuck out of game design discussions this game would've been so much better without the MMO quest structure, tons of GoT references/homages and a game producer that couldn't read the market he was aiming for.

[@Dabedidabe]

The story really isn't good. Character motivations and reasoning is utterly stupid. All too often people turn their brain off for consuming a story and then call it good en masse. There are some good moments, but the way they get there is just unreasonable every time. But yeah, other than that I agree with mostly everything elae in the video.

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

I loved 16 but actually agree with almost all of your criticisms as well. Very well made points.

[@iiayoob]

"some dad who can ONLY play like, 2 HOURS a night" Tell me you don't have kids working saying you don't have kids 😂 Edit: wow, plus "some 63-year-old retiree" in what world? Retirement age is like 67+ bro

[@13Doses]

Every FF after FFX has just been a flash of colours, health bars and numbers hack and slash BS with overwhelming HUD.

[@peterhoffmann502]

I love when reviewers think their opinion speaks for everyone. Ff16 was great.

[@huskycruxes7232]

It’s not just reviewers that do that. The entire gaming community does it. The majority of people in the community all think their opinion is fact. That’s why anyone that likes 13 is trashed on by the vocal majority. Or people that like 16 saying “you’re stuck in the past old man nobody wanted to play turn based garbage” Everyone does it to some extent.

[@TrvisXXIII]

Came back to say you might’ve sold me on FF14, never got into an MMO and the UI always looked complicated to me, but hearing you say how easy it is I actually wanna try it out lol no one’s ever said this about the game

[@TheTinyTimmyTimTim]

The story is awful on a fundamental level. The basic plot events that underpin the entire story are completely incoherent. Clive “kills” Joshua, except he’s not dead because he has a legion of super secret, hyper competent Illuminati ninjas conveniently loyal to him and only him that are never even remotely hinted or foreshadowed whatsoever. They save him and he decided to just…hide for a decade? For no reason? He let his brother wallow in torture and slavery for years, letting him believe he’d murdered his younger brother, without so much as a note or anything. And then when Clive finds out he’s alive, he STILL runs from him for another 5 years for NO reason. Completely contrived made up nonsense because they wanted their own version of “Jon snow and Bran stark/Rob stark reunite”. It’s so painfully dumb and derivative, the characters nonsensical shit strictly to move the plot along because they’re cardboard cutouts with no personality or agency. The entire game is riddled with shit like this. Cid has a qanon theory with NO evidence that the crystals are the source of the blight, and somehow Jill + Clive after having known this guy for like 29 minutes make it their life’s mission to become international terrorists and blow up the crystals which are potentially the lifeblood of the entire planet. None of them even question it for more than a second. They blow up crystals, the blight gets even worse, and they keep doing it despite having NO evidence they’re doing something good. Again, it’s just being derivative of FF7 and the mako reactors. Ultima appears as a vision to Clive multiple times throughout the game…in the form of Joshua? …why? What is the utility there? It’s never explained and he has no reason to do that. It’s cheap bullshit designed to trick the player because there’s no tension since they reveal super early that Joshua isn’t dead so Clive’s whole “waaaaah I killed my baby bro” shit is undercut not even 5 hours in. I’d fail a remedial, community college creative writing class if I turned in a script like this. It doesn’t make a single bit of sense. It’s a hollow, vacuous nothing story that is aware of its emptiness, which is why they shoved in a “did you know slavery is bad???” B plot and beat you over the head with it. There’s not a single compelling or interesting thing about a single character other than Dion or and maybe cid, and that’s ONLY because the game doesn’t actually tell you much about either. What does Joshua want? Does he want to rebuild rosaria? Is he skeptical of monarchism now? Is he deep down even a little bit relieved he doesn’t have to rule rosaria anymore? How does he feel about his mother’s suicide right in front of him? He never reacts to it and him and Clive never even talk about it. Did he love his mom despite who she was? Who even is Jill? What is she like? What is her personality or sense of humor outside of apparently liking food (wow so unique)? She is a ward of rosaria, a hostage because her father rebelled (the game doesn’t tell you this, you have to read the in game wiki lmao), does she resent rosaria a bit? Resent her family? Does she miss her home? Does she have a single thought independent of Clive? The game tells you NONE of this and these are the 2 other main characters. These are the Yuna and Auron equivalents or Yshtola and Alphinaud, and they are absolutely nothing characters, marionettes without even a shred of humanity. It is genuinely a staggering level of incompetence. This is basic writing101 shit. Naruto Fanfiction authors have written better and more compelling characters than these well paid industry professionals. This is flat out unacceptable for a random triple A game, it’s basically blasphemy for a FF title. Video game writing has fallen off a cliff the last decade and the fact that anyone thinks this is quality is an indictment on the media environment itself. Games, unlike novels and movie, have no tradition of actual critical analysis so there is no commonly held cohesive standard. This is anime edgelord bullshit people should have rejected and the fact that people fell over themselves to praise this tells me it’s going to continue to get worse before it gets better.

[@AzureRoxe]

I'll always laugh when people praise the "cutscene battles" when we spent YEARS hating quick time events and that's what these cutscene battles are.

[@dogswar4905]

They pick and choose what to shit on , they’re always moving the phucking goal post

[@Dabedidabe]

Seriously, people have no standards anymore. The Eikon battles were extremely boring to play D:

[@aarontorres8101]

Yeah sorry dude i loved FF16, its not an open world theme park extravaganza and im cool with that, sometimes i just want to play a linear RPG.

[@julitakamaki4386]

Yeah I enjoyed it as well. My roommate freakin LOVED it. Lol

[@kar12894]

what is the theme part comprised of exactly? i dont understand the love fo rthis gmae, it literally just looked kinda good and had a great soundtrack. thats it.

[@steponcurry7012]

​​@@kar12894it is a very personal story and even though the conflict isnt something new, things are actually dealt in a mature and nuanced way.

[@playername9391]

It's not even an rpg

[@carbxncle]

It is fucking BAFFLING that the same people who complain about linear maps in FF16 are 100% okay with the linear straight line maps in FF10.

[@nahbien]

Final Fantasy shouldn't be an action game

[@budigunawan1677]

Every FF is different. Cope.

[@MisterAlerion]

I really, really wanted to love the game. So much about it's aesthetics seems like it was tailor made for me. I was so happy to play it, was so blown away by the quality. And then as it continued, and things began to come into focus, the disappointment that met me around each and every corner started to become too much to bear. By the time I finished the game, I had a really nasty taste in my mouth. I don't want another Final Fantasy game like this. Overall, I'd say it's a good game and is worth buying and playing because it's good entertainment. But as a Final Fantasy title that nestles into your heart and stays there for the rest of your life, this game may just be one of the weakest FF's of all time.

[@tuckrfa]

mostly agree, except your positive comment about the boss fights. i could not stand any of the kaiju simulator clashes.

[@Rubidius]

I want a turn based mainline final fantasy RPG with a customizable silent protagonist!

[@SpookittyCat]

FF16 feels like a watered down Dragon Age Origins. Magic users are feared and therefore subjugated, but Dragon Age made more sense because as magic users, why wouldn't they rebel and fight for their freedom? Or the other way around, why aren't the magic users the ones in charge? Like the Tevinter. I think the story would have been more compelling if Clive and company they were on the oppressive side and they'll somehow change the status quo. Because Clive just recruited a bunch of people but they just lived on a floating building for five years. If you had the ability to fight for your freedom, you would do so. It's human nature, history is full of men and women who fought and died for liberty. So what if they petrify if they use magic? Realistically, you'd fight for freedom than suffer oppression. And... what if Barnabas left Clive and co them alone, instead focused on conquest, so what then for Clive and the others? What did Barnabas do for 5 years aside the war? Wasn't he looking for Clive under Ultima's grand scheme? I also think that Joshua should have died first instead of Cid, that would have more put more narrative weight of intense grief on Clive that all this time his brother was alive, only for a short lived reunion, then he dies--- then Clive would continue whatever what Joshua was doing in his honor, instead of the five years of essentially nothing as "Cid", really. And why does Clive get a brand and Jill doesn't? Nor Cid? Joshua? Why are magic users subjugated but dominants celebrated like Joshua and Dion? Though to be fair, I like Anabella as the evil, ambitious mother... that was a fresh take. Though I wish the uncle baron was introduced earlier so we could have had a deeper relationship with him as much as Clive, they talked about a nostalgic play we never saw--- not even as a flashback. I remember tearing up when the FF8 gang talked about Edea being their Matron when they were kids at the orphanage, it was a small flashback--- which makes the player feel that weight when they realized that they'll be fighting their "mom". Why wasn't the uncle at the castle thing at the beginning too? He could have had Rodney's role instead at the beginning instead, relating to Clive as being the brother that wasn't "the chosen one", seeing him struggle to save the boys that night when shit fell apart, see his brother die and feeling helpless, also believing he lost his nephews would add so much emotion and narrative weight when he sees his nephews alive and grown. Now imagine the loving uncle and the ambitious mother had a confrontation about family and titles... the mother mocking the uncle for being happy being the spare of the Rosfield brothers, not even marrying up to level up his rank in aristocracy... while she became a wife of an archduke then to an emperor. And then uncle would rebuke this, his own monologue between family, loyalty and real duty... It would even add more weight if ambitious mother was a commoner instead of aristocratic, but aside from her motive, we know next to nothing to her. We kind of know why Sephiroth lost his mind, we was an experiment. Kuja was the sort of the same. Edea was the FF8 gang's foster mother and she was being mind controlled. I feel 16 lost a bit of that interconnectivity usually found in FF games; like Cloud is childhood friends with Tifa, is the reason why he wants to be a soldier, become best friends with Zack, Zack and Tifa were both there when Sephiroth lost his mind, and then finally Aerith is Zack's gf, and she is unknowingly flirting with Zack's bf (in OG kinda), but she dies, then Tifa would later piece Cloud back together in Mideel. See? All characters are all narratively connected and aren't introduced halfway with no context but we are led to believe they're important just because our avatar said so. I really wanted to love 16, I like it... but the narrative misses were so heavy. 16 had awesome spectacles, but after the bright lights... the story is pretty meh. Even the love story, tbh. I would have wanted Clive and Jill to have flirty convos, or get teasing from their friends--- but they write to each other... um why? Sure we got the flower field thing but sprinkled interactions feels more organic. FF8 was a teenage romcom but the back and forth from Squall and Rinoa had them interact at least, their friends tease them and even force them to date, they clash ideals and then they begin to see each other's point of view... people say the "love" declaration when Rinoa was in a coma came out of nowhere but, hey, they're 17. I get why Jill would have been more withdrawn during the first half in the game, it's implied she was R-worded--- but WHY... she can turn to Shiva. What? A sword to another kid's neck? But she can just turn to Shiva and freeze her oppressors then just free everyone. It was already an M rated game, there was no reason why they didn't push the envelope further and got really gritty, but the M rating was pretty superficial in my opinion, just a bit of post coital pillow talk. I would have at least wanted more post coital pillow talk from Jill and Clive prior to his suicide mission... so I can feel as sad as she did when he didn't return. The whole drying scene with the both of them seemed like the first time they truly acknowledged their feelings for each other... so what happened in the timeskip? It would have made sense if Jill was like too traumatized to pursue a relationship and was still processing, and it would have been nice to see Clive be supportive of her. But they didn't delve in further... it would have been such a tragic and mature story. Then Clive "dies" just when she was finally ready to pursue a relationship. And why did Benedicta and Cid weakened or died when Clive absorbed their Eikons while Jill is okay? See? How contrived it feels? Dion's entire family was wiped out, what happens to his kingdom now? MMOs don't really have the deep, narrative stories compared to single players games and that's what I feel. I dunno.

[@carbxncle]

The magic users don't fight back because they die if they use magic. They're literally forced into slavery and made to cast magic against their wills. Have you paid attention to the story at all?

[@SpookittyCat]

@@carbxncle they dont die immediately upon using it. it takes several years. sure, just be miserable for a long time in slavery then die anyway. it makes total sense. oh and they can totally remove the brand, but dont do anything with their abilities to regain autonomy. because thats how subjugated people really act isnt it.. despite history is full of fed up demographics that fought the higher power and they died trying.. but clive and cid are specials. there was that one little village that did defy the empire, wow. each place should have little pockets of their own freedom fighters. but that's asking for too much isn't it?

[@carbxncle]

@SurinameNgalan I'm sure it would take the same amount of magical exertion to do menial day to day tasks for your overlords, and to wage a collective war to completely overthrow them and remake society in your own image.

[@SpookittyCat]

@@carbxncle sure, jan.

[@xiiir838]

I completely agree on the M rated take. Everything 16 does that classify it as M rated, 7 already did it DECADES before.

[@christophersanders7877]

I know this is a hot take but Strangers of Paradise has the, best, funnest and most in depth combat / RPG mechanics out of any mainline FF games (yes even compared to the FF7 remakes). I would have liked FF to evolve into that direction interm of combat/RPG build depth but Square would much rather make pretty looking games with shallow, or nonexistant combat/RPG systems. SoP is probably the best modern FF game imo lol and that game was memed on for its story and cheesy one liners lol.

[@Tuan-1993]

The game had one of the best boss fight I scene in a long time and it’s a game for no one?

[@dogswar4905]

You have low standards , slop eater

[@senpafl4405]

I'm one of the probably 50 people that has been passionate enough to get all the Ultimaniac S-Ranks and tbh I feel a lot of your criticism resonates with me. But I also like how streamlined the game is, especially after FF15 having been cluttered clusterf*ck. Because that piece of garbage was REALLY all over the place and 16 felt like it was trying to NOT be 15, which I was just grateful for. That being said, I am getting disappointed about one thing that all critiques, positive and negative, have in common about this game. None of you have ever touched on the game's endgame, the Arcade Mode, despite that one being worth its very own analysis... So yeah, I really liked FF16 and you still say a lot of correct stuff, I just feel like it didn't ruin my experience as much.

[@pennypeach7616]

It is a good game and story that is bloated by bad side content. It would have been better as a linear action game than having forced shallow side quests. XVI also needed some kind of party interaction during combat like the Remake games. Spamming AoE spells as Clive got boring fast.

[@hazelcrisp]

The only FF’s I’ve played are XIII and XV. I like them both. I like to look at things for what they want to be and how well they do it. So you won’t be hearing any stuff from me like “why not turn based” “Why no party?” and stuff of that sort. At most will compare it to the games I played in the series for similar things it did or if I preferred one thing over the other. XVI wants to be an action game, with usual FF elements such as story, characters, and being a visual and spectacle showcase etc. So, I will judge it on that merit and not what people may want it to be. This will be a bit of a ramble and kind of negative, maybe a bit bashy. There’s not much structure so it might go in circles. Characters Overall I found the cast pretty weak.The whole story revolves and focuses on Clive and where everyone kind of orbits around him. He’s… okay. He’s not super amazing but is serviceable for me. Not very entertaining to watch on screen. He’s not really the archetype I enjoy. I understand why he is the way he is, but I guess I’m not really on board for it or into it. Maybe because he’s a guy, I dunno. And he’s just strangely SUPER OP. Even with just the blessing of the Phoenix he can hold own Benedikta and Garuda clones. So, I feel very little stakes and investment. Any many other characters who don’t really do much like Benedikta, Kupka, Jill (besides being the main love interest). Are cool on paper. The only characters/arcs I’ve enjoyed are Dion and Annabella. They usually hint at something interesting like for Benedikta or Anabella but never go anywhere. I really liked Dion’s arc though, t’was very good. (No wonder he and Terrance have the most fics on AO3) Everyone just feels very shallow I guess. World and lore I’m not very interested in the world. It’s just a typical medieval, fantasy esq world. Different Kingdoms who each got their own Ikon. But we never get to understand or see much about them. They all look visually similar. Even for the time you get to spend in Altissia (XV) it looks very different and traversing it is very vertical and broken up by boat transport, compared to the main world of EOS which looks very American (Southern USA and Cuba). And on paper the world of XVI is not interesting either compared to Cocoon and Gran Pulse of XIII, which are complete opposites, with their own culture, their Fal’cie purposes and roles and beliefs of the other side) Some of it is even shown or told throughout the campaign. What is the difference between Dion’s Kingdom and Clive’s? I don’t know. What do they eat? What is their economy (they touch a little on it)? They all seem to be fighting with each other for the sake of it and power. You got the English Kingdon, the Middle Eastern one, the Norse one etc. They’re not interesting to me. This stuff isn’t necessary to tell the story, and it might be harsh on it, but it’s just a criticism for those who do care about this stuff more than I do or if you are engaging in fan content like fanfic and someone who likes to understand the reason of why stuff happens. But I usually care more about what is happening and on the characters. Active Time Lore This is a good idea in concept but not practicality and this goes for games in general and getting people to do homework. This can apply to other games and the mechanics of additional reading and data logs and lore. So a big complaint of XIII is that you need to read datalogs to understand everything (I personally didn’t read that stuff during my playthrough and got through and understood just fine). Games that have in game logs require people to stop the gameplay and read stuff. If it’s venn diagram “gameplay” and “logs” are two separate circles. It’s something games struggle in general. Unless the game is a slower walking sim type of game where the gameplay is reading e.g. Life Is Strange, there is no obstruction with taking your time and reading. But with open world action games where the main gameplay is action or traversal, you are going to struggle with getting players to stop what they are doing to read a document. It becomes an obstacle to the gameplay. I’ve seen a few people play the game now and I’ve rarely seen them stop to pull up the ATL, stop the action and read. The ATL is more of a prompt which acts as a heads up to say “hey, this is relevant, read this.” But reading it is another thing. Sound On the technical stand there are very clear moments where the music will abruptly cut to the next section of the song. There’s like no smooth transition. It just cuts. Like in the Phoenix fight at the end of the prologue when it changes phases. And I found that quite noticeable. The music. I’m not impressed. The songs just fade into the BG for me, no melodies or interesting parts to hum or become earworms and a lot of them are usually choir singing which act as the melody but is barely present. Compared to the other games I played there is no Stand Your Ground, APOCALYPSIS NOCTIS, Blinded by Light, Eidolons. No strong leitmotifs that play through the game that get stuck in your head like Lightning's theme. Seeing lots of people praise Soken for his work on XIV led me to believe it was going to be one of the best OST I will hear in my life but was just kind mid as a lack of a better word. If I were to give the music a score out of 10 it would be a 5 for average. The only track I remember is the main battle theme and Phoenix one. There’s probably more leitmotifs but these are the only ones I remember with my not very good music ears. Visuals During set pieces there's TOO MUCH visual noise on my screen that it's takes me out of the immersion. There's so much diarrhoea Christmas lights (totally not a term I stole). So many particle effects and falling debris that it's distracting at times. Like the end of the prologue fight. Clive v Ifrit. Titan. There's so much noise on the screen that it's distracting and difficult to actually see. It makes me do that thing when there’s something blocking your view and you try move your head to look around for a better angle as if there’s something blocking my TV. It's usually used for set pieces where there isn't much gameplay or stakes but is distracting and a bit immersion-breaking. I think the game screaming at me with visual noise going “OMG THIS IS EPIC SUPER COOL KAIJU EIKON FIGHT!!!!” is doing more harm than good for me. Plus I am not interested in the antagonism between Clive and Kupka. Clive killed Benedikta. So Kupka is pissed and hates Clive and destroys the place. It doesn’t show much of Kupka and Benedikta so I can’t feel the rage Kupka has. And pretty much rinse and repeat for each fight. I’ve played a little past the Ifrit+Phoenix v Bahamut fight and this is where the visual started affecting my enjoyment. Of course, I am not emotionally invested so I am looking at the screen like that meme of the girl Chloe with the look on the face, and stuff is just happening. BUT I CANNOT SEE THE SCREEN. There are so much diarrhoea Christmas lights that it’s affecting the gameplay. Like when they ask you to mash the attack button. The floor and particle effects block the gameplay. The flashing lights and effects were actually blinding and too bright I was actually closing my eyes and squinting. To me it's a bit toooooo much style over substance. Because I’m not invested in the Joshua and Dion fight it falls flat. It comes off as the 3rd wheel effect. Similar to when there's a couple on screen you are supposed to be rooting for and into, but if you are not invested in them you just feel very detached to them. Story moments that didn’t get me Like when it’s the end for Benedikta, there’s a weird ass flashback to make us know Benedikta more before she gets taken by the men. Like it’s supposed to do something and explain more about her. Don’t try and add depth to her right before she dies. Cus if I am guessing most of us probably didn’t give a toss about her. And then a few hours later it shows Hugo raging about her death. It’d be good to understand why he likes her so much or why she’s interesting. But all they showed us is one scene with them at the start and that he loved her, I guess? And where Anabella is like I was ridiculed for having a worth less son. Then SHOW it. Ifrit vs Garuda I found it underwhelming and not impressive at all. Especially for the debut of being and playing the ikon for the first time. It's supposed to be big and impressive and a showcase. Again, there's so much crap and particle effects on the screen I can't see shit. Story wise I did not care or have enough emotional investment in Clive or the ikons present. And only 6 hours in (Similar to the Bahamat and Odin scene soon after) The music as usual was very flat, more like background noise with the usual choir singing. It fell flat over all for me. And that’s it. She's just dead I guess. I thought she was going to be around longer to do something but she's just… dead. Same with Titan and Bahmut fights. Clive crying about Joshua. I needed more of their relationship. I think would be serviced better with more pre-timeskip content. Because it was cute playing around with younger Clive and seeing what it was like for them. I guess I just have to assume they’re as close as can be and all love each other so much, but I never got to see much before Joshua dies. And now that he’s back I just kind of don’t care. Am I supposed to be on board and care because there are brothers but I never saw them together in the first place. It happens a lot to me throughout the game and seems to be a pattern. They have these characters and they do very little with them and then end up falling flat. TLDR Spread of an ocean, depth of a lake. Boring story and characters.

[@mattappl3119]

Finally, someone who sees how mid the story actually is. My only disagreement is that Clive crying over Joshua. While their time together was short. Clive dedicated himself to protecting him and their relationship had a few layers that made their bromance compelling to me. The 2nd time, Joshua died, Clive totally carried that scene with his crying ( otherwise I felt nothing because somehow 28 Yr old Joshua had less character over the majority of the game than his 10 yr old self over 2 hours.) Jill sucks ( insert 1 page rant on why Jill is lame) The slavery of magic users is underdeveloped with no interactions with slave sellers, no showing a normal person the error of their ways, no violent slave leader planning a rebellion. Nothing. Ultima was so dumb, only surpassed by the idiot he gave a flying horse. Cid should've been the MC, former general in a corrupt society, becoming an outlaw hero after a friend loses his child to the broken system. Finding allies, plans to shatter the system, discovering an evil God in the process and all while suffering dwindling power after years of use. The world is super boring, and somehow, they made an even worse open world than FF15 ( I lived 15, but the open world was very simplistic). Small and empty, like how?

[@TanT77]

I love FF16 it's the best one yet. I like how hack and slash action is now part of Final Fantasy franchise.

[@peterricka32]

I really liked FF16 ... in my POV getting home from work and wanting to play something chill and story heavy... it was perfect for that ❤ and the story was enjoyable

[@sevhoss]

Yeah I can confidently say this game was made for me. I love Character action. I love Final Fantasy.

[@Zer0Hour17]

Literally my Goty last year and imo the 3rd best FF.

[@MarkHogan994]

Literally the most shallow "rpg" I've ever played. A mediocre action game that has no business being a FF game. Voice acting, music, character design and art direction are all solid, but that's not enough to save the game given how weak the combat is, and how lackluster the rpg elements are. In fact most of the game's systems (looting, crafting, itemization, etc...) are weak. The exploration is also awful, and the story is full of missed potential.

[@carbxncle]

@@MarkHogan994 nah. GOTY material.

[@arceptor]

@@carbxncle not even one nomination aside from the obvious music

[@NAzo.]

GOTY? 3rd best FF? Holy cringe. I put this pile of crap right above FF13 and FF13-3 but below FF2 which are at the end of my tier list.

[@X-Cactus]

It's so interesting how most gamers will say they don't give a shit about the Game Awards by Geoff Keighley, but then the moment this trash heap gets nominated, NOW you care about the Game Awards. (The fans of FF7Rebirth sure do!) Many gamers are fickle as hell and have terrible taste.

[@ELYSIUM1997]

I absolutely loved this game what are you on?

[@fab1279]

Skill issue for you. This game is a masterpiece. Combat has a lot of depth and story is fucking amazing.

[@RainingFlow19]

Game was absolutely for me. Atleast the first 70% of the game. Hated the last 30% tho I dislike the purple sky.

[@nullavitasinemusica1]

We should have been able to play as the three brothers ourselves Joshua Dion Clive Would have made it a lot better

[@yongkysiaw6597]

It was a shame that there's no combo in ffxvi. Only skill spam.

[@TWWang-o1t]

Errands quests vs battle grinds, I’d pick battle grinds if the rewards are the same. Though I don’t even like battle grinds if the drops are bad. By bad means no unique, item mods, etc. because that makes grinding meaningless other than just leveling up. Running errands and stupid mini games are bad. Waste of time and no fun at all. Ever since FF 11 the failed MMO things never felt the same. I always like to play the whole series, but FF11 broke my combo. I played FF12, but FF became a redundant series that slowly faded away from me because it’s not complete to me anymore ever since FF11.

[@terrylandess6072]

I was too old to play with the Japanese consoles. Therefore I had no access to much of that lore. As exclusives came to PC a gave some a try. Final Fantasy is something you grow up with. Adoption feels more like Foster care at my age. When I only got 'part' of FF7 which seems to be the cornerstone of the franchise and found it uninspired I reconciled - It's not for me. This proves my point after trying XV. Lactose intolerant as they milk it for all it's worth.

[@GottiEss]

a great story and visuals, the stagger system is stupid, it makes an action fighting system pointless when half the fight has the enemy stunlocked and not doing anything, i just switched to story mode, equipped the rings of automatic murder and enjoyed it as it should be, an interactive movie.

[@AnarickTheDevil]

I want a FF game not a DMC knockoff.

[@budigunawan1677]

Every FF game is different and that's ok. This is more like OG God of War PS3 era with Game of Thrones vibe

[@huskycruxes7232]

@@budigunawan1677don’t insult god of war like that. This surface level tripe that was produced solely to have mass appeal doesn’t compare.

[@budigunawan1677]

@huskycruxes7232 God of War too is produced to have mass appeal? Hello it's made to sell a ton? It's not an artsy fartsy game

[@huskycruxes7232]

@@budigunawan1677 god of war has mass appeal because it is a great game. They didn’t make it with the express intention of making it for every consumer. FF 16 was made with that exact intention. It’s like the squares and rectangles. A good game has mass appeal, but mass appeal by itself doesn’t make a game good.

[@budigunawan1677]

@huskycruxes7232 first-party games and console exclusives are both made to be system sellers. I'm sorry your intelligence can't grasp that. Both games are made to be as mass appealing as possible. Just admit you're a FF 16 hater and call it a day.

[@vox70]

so many games doing the pointless quest thing, im fine with questing if the reward makes it worth doing, i played lightning returns recently where basically the whole game is a boring quest simulator, but the fact the game gave you easy mode which made all your stats pointless, just made the whole game pointless since quests were a total waste of time, even in games where quests are worth doing, im never actually enjoying the process of questing, the storytelling of said quests, the fun part is getting op to trivialize the main story or superbosses etc, theres this thing about the internet where you wanna talk about stuff, even make a living off your take or something you put together, and it could be fun to watch a video someone put together who gave a hell about all these little tidbits about the quest giver, ties with the story and lore etc, but while im actually playing the game i so couldnt care less about any of that, i just wanna get op and hopefully the process is fun, im prone to skip all the dialogue i possibly can so i can just get a hold of my character back and do what i want, a lot of games nowadays feel more like movies than an actual game

[@onikagebr]

Great review. For the ones that somehow loved FF16, welcome to the action games world. Play Devil May Cry 3, 4, 5, Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden, you will love it, and instantly understand why FF16 gameplay is extremely shallow. Now, for me, as a Final Fantasy, this is the worse followed by FF14. As an action game, it’s average. It doesn’t even have a combo system, interaction with the environment, new weapons, decent physics reactions as the enemies receive your hits…

[@parzival123]

Now they just need to improve it in ff xvi-2. And keep the remakes in actual turn based

[@wiseguy240Winston]

Overall, i liked 16. Its like a B- but nothing about the game felt perfected in any way. FF16 is like a jack of all trades. The FF13 trilogy was the last to do traditional atb and man was it good especially 13-3's battle system. Kinda want FF17 to build off that game's combat

[@OskarXCI]

37:12 A normal person would just drop the game if this bothers them that much. Don't hate-play games.

[@TheDullsville]

I agree with the cast of characters ff16 was a massive step back The cast of characters were bland in comparison to other entries

[@Morden97]

A review I actuallt agree with almost entirely. I couldnt have expressed this better.

[@samb123078]

I liked 16 so I guess it was for people like me. Too bad I’m a niche person. The combat was slick, stylish and surprisingly complex with the ability to switch between avatars seemlessly. The story was darker than I thought it would be but I still enjoyed. Wished Clive and company got a happy ending but bittersweet endings have always been a staple.

[@kevinsean8718]

My top 3 final fantasy. 1. 12 2. 9 3. 16

[@bchccc]

Loved FFXVI… finally a storyline for adults

[@alexmaganda5827]

i lost all trust i had in the franchise after ff15 im glad i found the persona series atlus has not dissapointed me yet