A critique of Owen Jones' article about ISLAMOPHOBIA in the Guardian today

this is a sensational article yet it still omits some important details- waity till the end of this video for that!!
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[@stefanmaslaczyk1259]

Unless someone has been living a closeted existence Islamophobia is obvious in England. Johnson described Muslim women as letter boxes, which was actually an old Bernard Manning joke. It was no accident that the false news about the Southport killer gave him a Muslim name. Yet Zara Sultana was bullied during an interview for suggesting the riots were an example of Islamophobia.

[@welshed]

Islamophobia exists because you know, Islam is a danger.

[@davidgreen6490]

So what exactly does Johnson fear about women dressed as letterboxes???

[@crossx695]

Let me tell you something .I grew up in a Muslim country, my experience was not great and I left, you talk about Islamophobia , tell me something do people get treated well in Muslim counties? More and more Christians are leaving the Middle East, why you think that is? Lebanon used to be majority Christian, no more, look at the slaughter in the Middle East, most victims are Muslims, most perpetrators are Muslims, in Syria 600 000 slaughtered with help from Iran, in Sudan , half a million slaughtered, women and children burnt alive in Darfur, who did this? Tens of thousands killed in Yemen, in Libya, in Algeria etc, the list never ends, tens of thousands of Kurds who are also Muslims killed, bombed, gassed, Yazidis never harmed anyone, look what they did to women after they slaughtered the men, is this all okay according to Jones? I will never forget being in northern Iraq once and meeting a Kurdish driver who showed me his hand where they hammered a nail though it, the hypocrisy and selective morality of Owen Jones is truly amazing., I suppose this comment will not be tolerated even if it is true, you can delete sure but facts do not change just because it doesn't suit you, when I left my hellhole country I thought I was getting away from the hate, terror and violence only to see it in Europe now, how sad.

[@GhAt-f7d]

I find it astonishing that some people deny the existence of Islamophobia, but they are great defenders of antisemitism. Those people couldn't be more Islamophobic!

[@maximillianphoenix9374]

It’s healthy and reasonable to fear Islam it threatens all our freedoms and rationality itself 🤔

[@mykelhedge7299]

The two are not the same at all. Jews are an ethnic group, specifically an ethno-religious group. Islam is a religion. It has no ethnic or racial component to it anymore than Christianity has it, ie children tend to have the religion of their parents. Therefore it is completely different from antisemitism. Islamophibia is basically the same as Naziphobia, ie it is a fear of an ideology. Islamic people tend to be non-white as Nazis tend to be white, you don't fear Nazis because they're white and people don't fear Muslims because they're brown.

[@ianhorn5466]

@@maximillianphoenix9374 All Islam? Some islamists might but some evangelical Christians do. Extremists of any faith do.

[@user-em3vl6li5w]

⁠@@maximillianphoenix9374it’s neither reasonable or healthy to fear Islam. Why would you? It’s as silly to say that Christianity or Judaism is a threat. All religions have divides. There is a war going on as we speak, between Ukraine and Russia, two Christian Nations. Islam in no way threatens the U.K, it’s disingenuous to claim that. Look at Parliament, look at Industry, look at Education, and the Police. White people rule our Country, where are the Islamic Leaders, nowhere to be found. Demonising groups helps nobody, it just creates what we are seeing on our Streets. Chaos, criminality, violence. It needs to stop.

[@GhAt-f7d]

@mykelhedge7299 First, Judaism is NOT an ethno-religious group as Jews come from different backgrounds, cultures, and races, as is the case with Muslims and Christians. You can't call Judaism an ethno-religious group when we have African, Arab, European...etc. Jews. Second, Islam is not an ideology but a religion. An ideology speaks to a specific group, class, or nation. Islam is like any other religion that focuses on faith and worship and is addressed to all people. You are conflating, intentionally, or 'maybe' unintentionally, Islam with Islamism. The latter is a political ideology, like Zionism is also an ideology that shouldn't be conflated with Judaism. I am not sure what you mean by Muslims are not white. Your statement is blatantly Islamophobic, if not racist!! Let me remind you that there are white Muslims in Albania, Romania, Russia, and many other European countries. There is the adage that says 'ignorance is bliss', but in your case, ignorance is not bliss. It is DANGEROUS! It is funny how opponents of Islam always like to label it an ideology but call Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism...etc. a religion!

[@DropdudeJohn]

We could always ask the teacher who is still in hiding if its a phobia or not, and where should that teacher go for asylum and safety, and should we just wait until we are all in the same position as that teacher.

[@davidgreen6490]

It is literally impossible to be a phobia, by definition..

[@geeceeman]

My first impression when I saw Starmer visit the mosque in Solihull was 'what a hypocrite' taking into consideration the Forde report and the Al Jazeera investigation into Islamaphobia in the Labour party. It seems that his party of "service" excludes Muslims and though he was right as PM to visit a mosque there is a cynical sense of someone returning to the burnt out building knowing full well his party contributed to the fire.

[@tonyvogue3640]

owen jones saw the notorious video of the poor jewish lady who had been Roped by a hamas "fighter" being kidnapped and put into a landrover with blood on her trousers and cable ties on her wirsts and saw nothing wrong. He is so far beneath my contempt i can barely express it.

[@STONEWALL148]

You are supporting Israel because they are killing Muslims you never liked Owen Jones because he's left-wing anyway.

[@lodoss118]

There is legit islamophobia which needs to be addressed

[@vobchopper]

Correct, it is legitimate

[@paulgibbons2320]

@@lodoss118 when 127 perscribed Islamic terror groups stand down. And our terror watch list has less than 41000 people on it. Then we might see Islamophobia cured all by itself.

[@user-dh7gp9hu4w]

Thank you Tim for saluting Owen Jones. He comes in for a lot of criticism and his unflinching efforts at bringing the reality of what is happening to the Palestinians must be at some personal cost.

[@travelwell6049]

Did he mention anything about the government’s response to the situation in Israel and Gaza? This has also been a catalyst in division amongst communities. The response to the war in Ukrain was met with such unified condemnation and yet with Israel we bury our heads in the sand and ignore what’s going on.

[@MikA-db2]

I totally agree with you .

[@zephyr8072]

Russia started a war with Ukraine, naturally we side with Ukraine. Hamas started a war with Israel, so naturally you want to side with….? See how it’s more complicated?

[@davidgreen6490]

The biggest factor in the cause of devision amongst communities in Britain is leftism..

[@mooh7471]

Timbo, you say that the recent scenes of violence on the streets of England remind you of the scenes at the end of the 1970's but the race riots of 1979 were not about Muslims, or any religious group, but about ethnicity, race, and class. Islam is not a race, and the significant friction in our society comes from cultural clashes not racial clashes. Moreover, the real problem for a modern liberal western democracy, like that in the UK, is for it to distant itself from all organised religion, which look backwards and embrace prejudice, intolerance, and exclusion, and attempt to nurture a truly secular forward looking society of political, sexual, racial, and spiritual freedom.

[@johnslavin2270]

Agree with note that when the mob attacks brown or black people they don't ask them their religion

[@maaziy_ghaziyIYI]

If you could just abstain from attacking anyone regardless of their faith or lack of faith then that would be more than enough

[@mooh7471]

@@johnslavin2270 The thrust of the violence that began in Southport was based on Islam not skin colour

[@mooh7471]

@@maaziy_ghaziyIYI I'm advocating secularism and the rule of common law, not the law of religious fanatics, regardless of their stripe

[@maaziy_ghaziyIYI]

@@mooh7471 strawman arguments don't work

[@scoobysnax9787]

Not just Left or Right, I am gay & extremely scared/phobic of islam. You should see what they do to my lot. Although I am a big fan of Owen Jones, Why doesn't he talk about Homophobia in the Islamic community?

[@leightonolsson4846]

I don't disagree however I am also gay and just as deeply troubled by the Evangelical Christian churches/movements which have gained significant traction in this country.

[@steveweeden7647]

​@leightonolsson4846 Where's the violence and intimidation from said churches??? Oh that terrorist outfit called the Salvation Army. If you want a harmonious society control Islam to a miniscule population. Since Blair Islam has expanded exponentially and turned society on its head. They've used our democracy against us!!!!

[@davidgreen6490]

Islamophobia is an oxymoron. A phobia is an irrational fear of something. It is not irrational to fear a totalitarian religious ideology..

[@prx8538]

In Indonesia sharia law has recently been implemented in a couple of provinces and people are publically whipped for various transgressions, most of which secular society would not see as crimes such as drinking alcohol, homosexuality, sexual relations outside marriage. Even non Muslims are punished for transgressing certain Islamic laws, such as eating in public during prescribed fasting times. Sharia enforecement police patrol the streets looking for dress code transgressions like clothing being too form-fitting etc I'm very left of centre but the situation in these areas is totally abhorent to me. Do those outside Islam who dispise "anti Islamisism" , apparently like yourself Professor Wilson, not find this distasteful?

[@DropdudeJohn]

@@lamestreammedia3154 Is that what's in your head.

[@weswheel4834]

I don't understand your point. "I've found an oppressive government, therefore is is okay to blame the religion"?

[@mark1980100]

www.reuters.com/article/world/us/few-uk-muslims-have-sympathy-for-paris-attack-motives-most-oppose-violence-po-idUSKBN0LT16R/ Basically sums up the issue. The media reports few British muslims have sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo attackers. If you read the actual report it's 27% of British muslims have some sympathy, which is frankly quite terrifying.

[@mark1980100]

Owen jones is absolutely obsessed with islamophobia, to the extent that after Oct 7th his first thought is to write an article about his worry that it will lead to increased islamophobia

[@weswheel4834]

@@vinay7397 Any specifics?

[@ozzmundo5095]

isnt islam a religion/ideology, islamphobia just anthor way to shut down the ability to disagree or challange/question or debate this religion/ideology, they need to find a new word that refer to the people rather than the religion

[@zephyr8072]

It is fascinating how the same people who say that any criticism of Israel or Jews in general isn’t antisemitism will then put up the shield of islamophobia the moment critique is turned towards Muslims. No group is above scrutiny. You’d think they’d know that.

[@ozzmundo5095]

@@zephyr8072 ant semitism isnt about religion, jhews pratice many religions including many who have no religion, islam is the religion and mus lim is the person who follows it or believe in it, many have critised is raels gorvernment and thats fair game as it would with any government,people often challenge the many other religions but i dont hear the word phobia and rightly so

[@BigDuke6ixx]

So Islam is above criticism then?

[@richarddawe9585]

Owen Jones is an individual devoid of all sense , or thought, of impartiality on anything. To lighten the debate concerning his opinions, I find myself reminded of the words of Tonto to the Lone Ranger , ''white man speak with forked tongue''. Good Afternoon.

[@GhAt-f7d]

@richarddawe9585 wow, so, if Own was racist or Islamophobic, you would consider him 'an individual full of sense', right? If only our pseudo journalists had half of Owen's wisdom and professionalism, we wouldn't sink down to this catastrophic level of journalism we are witnessing in the mainstream media

[@richarddawe9585]

@@GhAt-f7d No ,you are wrong in that assumption of how I would consider Mr.Jones if he were racist or islamophobic, but you do demonstrate that ridiculous Lefty Arrogance of belief that your opinions and assumptions are always correct.

[@richarddawe9585]

@@GhAt-f7d No , you are incorrect to assume that I would consider Mr.Jones in that manner if he was , in your words, ''racist or islamophobic''. Your style of reply is ,however, indicative of that ridiculous Lefty stance that your opinions and assumptions are always correct . I agree that the level of journalism in the mainstream media is appalling, but that is because it is not reporting the news, it is endeavoring to make the news.

[@GhAt-f7d]

@richarddawe9585 So, would you agree that the mainstream media is Islamophobic and that it bears a responsibility for last week's riots??

[@LukVik]

I think Owen is right and I not always agree with him!!!!

[@AdastraRecordings]

You're right Prof, we never really dealt with it, we just made them feel uncomfortable about voicing those views in public, but as a Caucasian from E3, it would only take me 5 minutes in the back of a cab before I knew it was still alive and well. Maybe part of the solution is finally becoming a republic, disbanding the House of Lords and liquidating the Corporation of London and using that money for re-education and reparations, so we can finally tell the truth about Imperialism, the East India Corporation, Mandates and Sykes-Picot.

[@stephenford5839]

Have you already paid your reparations?

[@VaucluseVanguard]

Why is expressing profound criticism of Islam and its adherents racist? Islam is not a race and nor is it an immutable characteristic in reality. I accept it is in UK law. During the Cold War, children growing up in Poland or Czechoslovakia were brought up to believe in the absolute correctness of Communist ideology it was as much an immutable characteristic as for an Iranian kid growing up Muslim. There is no intellectually defendable difference between a religious or a political belief. In the end both are faith based.

[@paulnewman2314]

Jones always reminds me of an earnest schoolboy, the sort with no friends, who spouts absolute rubbish at the 5th form debating society.

[@STONEWALL148]

As opposed to right-wingers who leave school without any qualifications

[@Mitjitsu]

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't think most concerns people have about Muslims are irrational.

[@GhAt-f7d]

@Mitjitsu Unfortunately you are phobic and the fear or 'concerns' people have about Muslims is caused by decades of media brainwashing. Your fear is irrational because you believe that your race or religion is 'innocent' but Muslims are not. This is where irrationally begins

[@DropdudeJohn]

@@GhAt-f7d Absolute rubbish, Islamic countries have some of the most backward standards the world has to offer when it comes to human rights and personal freedoms, and thanks t Islam we are now seeing some our rights particularly with relation to free speech being eroded and then add to that the atrocities carried out all around the world on innocents by that one ideology for ideological purposes

[@patrickquinlan3056]

Were they as terrified of the Irish during the IRA bombing campaign?

[@DropdudeJohn]

@@patrickquinlan3056 We had soldiers on the streets of the UK during that time and checkpoints in military towns and there were always warnings on the TV about IRA activity, so yes.

[@weswheel4834]

@@patrickquinlan3056 I remember being worried about it growing up despite not living near anywhere that would potentially be a target. Doesn't mean I was scared of or disliked the Irish though.

[@MikA-db2]

Owen Jones is a credit to Journalism, me thinks he will go far.

[@lokiwun]

I am not a Christian. I do not want to return to a world where Christian ideology rules; however, that the vilification, contempt, and scorn towards Christians is considered completely acceptable, whereas saying I really don't want this country to be dominated by Muslim ideology either, is considered Islamophobic, causes a very high level of cognitive dissonance in me; and I cannot even begin to understand how you can talk about anything Owen Jones says as if he's got some credibility. (Prof. I find your musings interesting. You're obviously very thoughtful and considered, but Owen Jones has become a parody of himself!) May you live long and prosper.

[@mohammedhussain7579]

Most Muslims like myself enjoy living in this country as it is, we don't want sharia law. It is the FALSE and deliberate spreading of fear, saying that is what Muslims want, that fosters Islamphobia. This is what is spread by Farage and Tommy Robinson, to make people think we Muslims want to change the country. Where did you get your idea that makes you think "Muslims want to dominate their ideology in this country "

[@vobchopper]

Does anyone believe that this conversation or debate is going on in islamic countries regarding Christianity?

[@roc7880]

not every Muslim is a radical, but when Muslim youth with clubs and machetes march in the streets of Bham with no police in sight, asking the question is not a phobia, just reason.

[@STONEWALL148]

Here we go again it's a complete nonsense

[@applegrovebard]

The Quran says on page after page that people that do not submit to Allah will burn in hell for eternity. Since Allah is the fount of justice and he decrees that punishment, presumably non-Muslims deserve to burn in hell for eternity. This is what devout Muslims believe and presumably teach their children. Am I honestly supposed to respect this, and consider it a fine teaching suitable for modern multi-cultural Britain?

[@stevec700]

It amazes me that someone is so determined to defend people who would happily give him a free flying lesson off a tall building. The term "islamophobia" is of course, ridiculous. No one one has a phobia of a religion, only some of the manics that practice it. Some of the values found in Islam are diametrically opposed to our own. Most Muslims ignore them and just get on with their lives.

[@johnslavin2270]

When you say 'our own' values can you say who 'our' is? I am very afraid of the Christian Nationalists in the US who present a present danger in massive numbers many of whom have automatic weapons

[@reallymakesyouthink]

It's pretty racist to suggest all Muslims want to throw people off a tall building.

[@NO-CASH478]

Sounds bigoted!

[@maaziy_ghaziyIYI]

so what if the values are dramatically oppose to "your own". You seem to be very insecure about your beliefs and values. Muslims are more than ready, prepared and happy to challenge your values and defend theirs in an intellectual manner. Are you up for the task or do you want to resort to violence because you can't defend them?!

[@stevec700]

@@johnslavin2270 Yes I can. People who are not homophobic, who do not have misogynistic views, do not think marrying kids is ok, do not believe in Sharia law, do not believe death for apostacy is ok, and death for insulting the prophet is ok. Just an example. Its a long list.

[@nickryder9669]

1919 saw the British army on the streets of many Uk cities ! One of the beefs demonstrators had was highlighted as immigration !

[@neilbower9052]

total and complete b*ll*cks

[@STONEWALL148]

Modern-day racism had to come from somewhere.

[@chrisjourneyman]

Respect is a two-way street.

[@jimviv6030]

Its actually quite difficult to separate one's view of British Muslims from the disturbing reality of those countries which are run by Muslims. No mention of that here?

[@maaziy_ghaziyIYI]

why is it quite difficult?!

[@NO-CASH478]

Disturbing reality, eh? Care to elaborate? (knuckle-crack)

[@reallymakesyouthink]

Disturbing reality? What do you mean exactly?

[@donna25871]

The only disturbing thing is your comment - it reeks of racism. What about the disturbing reality of countries that are controlled by radical Christian elements - and I point to the US as an example. There the minority evangelical Christians want to take the country back to the 19th century through Project 2026.

[@GhAt-f7d]

Well, it's not as disturbing as the terrible reality of Western imperialist countries defending the barbarity and terrorism practiced by Israel in the ME

[@WhiteRiot-h9t]

Isn't this just about who gets company credit to shop at the company store for jobs, pensions, education and healthcare.

[@DropdudeJohn]

What's amazing reading through this as how the case against Islam is fact based and the case for it is emotionally based, the people saying Islamophobia isn't real back that up with real events and the religious texts that Islam preaches, the people saying Islamophobia is real seem to be covering their eyes and going la la la la la very loudly so has not to hear anything

[@DropdudeJohn]

@@dilonkumar4960 The religious texts mate and the countries controlled by Islamic governments, like I say its based on reality, why do you think we don't see people running from Christian countries to islamic ones but instead people running from islamic ones to Christian ones and then creating problems when they get here

[@ipohtennischannel5482]

Haaa! Wonderful micro-aggression when talking about Islamophobia here... "So its not just Tommy Robinson, and Farage, and Richard Tice, and Lee Anserson." And like ten year old children, this man's viewers will lap it all up. 😅

[@mikepost8965]

People who think they know what other people will think usually don't do much thinking.

[@DropdudeJohn]

@@mikepost8965 Don't think you thought that through

[@MoraqVos]

Islamic terrorist attacks have something to do with it.

[@DropdudeJohn]

Oh and the rest, lets have a cover up said the police, local council and social services and lets not release the crime figures by demographic for social cohesion as knowing the truth might cause unrest

[@DropdudeJohn]

@@dilonkumar4960 How would it fall apart, state your reasoning

[@lodoss118]

@@DropdudeJohn actually you will see whites and probably blacks at the top of knife crime and others

[@STONEWALL148]

@@DropdudeJohn Because if you are saying crime is higher amongst immigrants then the higher convictions with immigrants show that the police are not letting them off the hook but indeed prosecuting them so 2 their policing is a myth. In short you can't have it both ways.

[@michaelshore2300]

Were there european grooming gangs ?? must have missed that

[@mykelhedge7299]

I disagree with the concept of Islamophobia because it binds people from being able to have very important discussions. There is already a term for racism. It is racism. It is a perfectly good term that does not privilidge an ideology. Hate crimes due to a persons religion is already recognised, so here too there is no need to privilidge it. What creating Islamophobia does is provide a shield that bad actors can and do use to prevent any discussion about their religion because it is istaphobic to do so...a protection that others are not granted. As for those claiming that antisemitism is a thing therefore therefore Islamophobia...Islam has no racial component to it, unlike Jews who are an ethnic group. The two are not the same. Antisemitism is specific to Jews based on their race and religion. To illustrate how absurd Islamophobia is as a concept it is like having Naziphobia for people with a fear on Nazis. Like Islam Nazis is an ideology, and like Nazism Islam has a brutal past. This isn't specific to Islam of course, Christianity fits that bill also...but we don't even recognise Christophobia as an issue...additionally it seems fair game to make jokes and judge all the church and Christianity based on its worst aspects, while doing this same thing for Islam is considered bigotry. So no, Islamophobia is not a thing and should never be recognised as such. People are entitled to be personally intolerant of any ideology, that is freedom of concience, and they are entitled to express that intolerance so long as it doesn't violate the rights of others, that is free expression. You are not entitled to freedom from offence, which is what Islamophobia seeks to impose for one demographic.

[@JustMe-ts8bn]

I think unfortunately despite best intentions people like Owen Jones are a contributing factor to the increased lean to the far right. We have some serious problems with social integration in this country particularly in Northern towns. Acknowledgement and an effort to address the problems and create more social cohesion go a long way to reducing the influence of right wing thinkers.

[@paulwalker797]

The collapse in the integrity of the left, and its increasing inability to communicate with the erstwhile working classes, leads directly to a rise in support for the far right ,who will willingly foreground the 'socialism' in their nationalism to communicate directly to those marginalised by liberal narratives and market economics.

[@JustMe-ts8bn]

@@dilonkumar4960 i have been strongly against Israeli abuses for many decades. You can both applaud people for championing a cause and be critical of them in other areas. Politics is not pick a side or join a personality cult. Critical thinking is an essential part of a healthy society.

[@user-le5fs9yt5t]

What is it called when Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims are in conflict with each other in this country, including within the asylum hotels they occupy? Its all very simple to accuse those who question or do not agree with the ideology of Islam as Islamophobic but what about the hatred existing within muslizm communties even within this country? Why should the native britosh people keep being accused of Islamohobia when muslim communities have problems of hatred within their very own religion and community?

[@DropdudeJohn]

Nothing as its covered up

[@user-le5fs9yt5t]

@@dilonkumar4960 that's where you're wrong. There was trouble at my local asylum hotel with fighting between the two Muslim factions and the Home Office had to move the sunni Muslims to another hotel. Of course the media never report these conflicts.

[@GhAt-f7d]

The only hate I am seeing is the Western's towards Muslims, and we are seeing it live and kicking in Palestine.

[@paulhammond6978]

Sectarianism? I mean, this feels like whataboutery to me "look, we can't be Islamophobic when Turkish muslims hate Iranian muslims". Would you argue that the division between Protestant and Catholic and the fact that it has led to conflict between European Christians means that it isn't possible for someone from outside Europe to be prejudiced against Christians? Does the fact that Hutus and Tutsis, both being black African groups that white racists could not distinguish, had a civil war in Rwanda mean that white racists therefore do not exist? Silly argument, isn't it.

[@stevec700]

I have been given a preview of the King Charles "Call for Unity" speech. "One is appalled to have to watch unrest on my streets on a TV in my palace. Camilla told me that the peasants were revolting, and one must say that one agrees. I must say, that one has not had a problem with mass immigration here at the palace, so one really doesn't understand what all the fuss is about".

[@patrickquinlan3056]

Yeah, this just goes to show you don't know the King.

[@stevec700]

@@patrickquinlan3056 And you do?

[@camo68]

King😂😂 Na Traitor

[@NO-CASH478]

@@stevec700 Listen to me: You're done, understand? The joke's over & you're the punchline. Your movement is finished. Now sod off.

[@stevec700]

@@NO-CASH478 Will you get Kier Stalin to put me in a gulag?

[@robertshepherd-mo9vw]

Owen Jones, the Lee Anderson of the left. A tiresome bore. A stuck record.

[@patrickquinlan3056]

You are not obliged to watch him.

[@janewright2800]

@Robertshepherd yeah just keep your head in the sand!!

[@weswheel4834]

Trying to work out if this is fair or not. Jones works against his own side, trying to make it purer. Not sure if Anderson does.

[@modelcitizen2028]

I think Jones and Anderson have more in common than we know: both ardent brexiteers, I recall? 🤔

[@davidr1424]

The fear of Islam is rational. So Inlamophobia is an oxymoron.

[@alfsmith4936]

🥱

[@weswheel4834]

Did ya have to heart this comment, Prof?

[@weswheel4834]

People used to say similar things about AS. The comment says more about you than it does anything else.

[@BigDuke6ixx]

@@weswheel4834 Islam is a dangerous ideology on so many levels. Would you live in an Islamic republic? Islam is NOT above criticism, but it soon will be due to planed Labour legislation. Another giant step towards totalitarianism thanks to the most totalitarian religion on the planet.

[@davidr1424]

@@weswheel4834 it says that I have an open mind. Islamophobia is a word used to close down any dissuasion of the morality or historicity of Islam

[@louisdisbury9759]

Here in Asia prof I live in the South very heavily populated with Muslims I've never seen the question of the difference between Sunni or Shia Muslims come up in the Uk does Owen Jones mention that in his article? Sunnis believe that the caliphate should be chosen by consensus, and Shias believe that it should be passed down through the Prophet Muhammads' bloodline two very stark differences of Islam amongst Muslims that often leads to bloodshed between them and saw the possible birth of ISIS did Owen Jones mention that? Where I live they are all Sunni Muslims and very peaceful and for me they take a far more democratic approach to Islam.

[@qwa1986]

Brilliant video.

[@MissR-hn8be]

Of course there is Islamophobia, without a doubt, however may I respectfully point out that many people are too afraid to complain when Muslims make prejudicial comments about other faiths etc. 2 of my Muslim colleagues verbally attacked me on 3 ocassions for being a Christian, making very offensive comments about Catholic priests. These comments were made infront of others. such was their audacity. Said colleagues would not even allow me to defend my faith, I was shouted down. When I decided to lodge an official grievance against them I was very strongly advised not to do so. I was told in no uncertain terms that such action would backfire on me. Senior management were too afraid to confront these people for fear of reprisal. I have heard many a story such as mine. There needs to be respect for ALL faiths by everyone.

[@user-ls5jz5vh6w]

My experiences too

[@MissR-hn8be]

​@user-ls5jz5vh6w Thank you for your response. I was quite nervous to share my experiences online..

[@SuperRichierich77]

The problem is that people struggle to separate the extremist connection to Islam from the ordinary. For some people the grey area and the complexities will not be considered, they think of the terrorist attacks owing to their high profile and extremely violent nature. This is what is wanted by the extremist. I remember after 9/11 many people became very suspicious of people that looked "Muslim" and I think to an extent this has continued. There are people sharing the extreme violence from Middle East conflict online and there are high profile popular social media philosopers that present Islam as an existential threat. Owen Jones tends to ignore these factors, i think someone like Rory Stewart offers better insight because he's spent time in the Middle East.

[@aoneill]

Jones is extremely biased against the labour party so I doubt his words. He takes one or two examples to condemn a whole group. I am a Labour party member and know no-one who is islamophobic. Jones is from the far left which is not a lot different to the far right in terms of lack of truth.

[@DropdudeJohn]

I don't know anybody who is Islamophobic either as its not a real thing

[@howlinmadmurdock9553]

Can't stand Owen Jones.

[@robertshepherd-mo9vw]

Ditto.

[@modelcitizen2028]

We're in good company: need to start a "Can't stand Owen Jones" club - all welcome! 😂

[@SkepticalTeacher]

Finally, something everyone on YT can agree upon! 😂😂

[@YoutubeMadeMePickHandle]

How can one address concerns about the sectarianism present in Muslim communities without reinforcing harmful stereotypes

[@danbroome8772]

Also have a good night 😴👍

[@Mike20216]

What about Anti semitism jones, what did you have to say about this when your hero Corbyn was at the helm, the truth is we all have to be mindful of what we say especially people at the top, lets not have islamophobia or anti semitism or any other forms of racism. lets talk more positively about the benefits of multiculturalism, and accept people as they are and not by the actions of extremist minorities or the actions of foreign governments.

[@ProfessorTimWilson]

I wold hardly claim that jeremy corbyn is a hero though I certainly know his brother (who I regard quite openly as bizarre)! lol

[@padraigohooligan8363]

Politicians of the major parties do not focus their minds first and foremost on policies which might improve the lives of the population, but always steer a political path to maximise their popularity (which is never very great) and minimise the bear traps which might lose them political power. There has probably never been an instance on any political/social issue where the optimal path has been chosen. All the decisions are tradeoffs to get party MPs on board and get legislation through - with the best outcome possible only a distant second in priority. That is why the country has to accept crap outcomes for everything - health, education, transport, housing, etc. The solutions are available and affordable, but the political will is never there because politicians put themselves before anything else. Party survival and its constituent MPs will always come first.

[@ftumschk]

I read Jones' article, and it was just another example of his _--tiresome--_ tireless ability to kvetch about the present Labour Party's failure to measure up to his ideals. The fact that much of the article hinged on events from 14 years ago demonstrates that Jones will stoop to any level to stick the boot in. Whilst Jones fleetingly cited other instances of so-called Islamophobia in Labour, they pale into insignificance to the far nastier, and more numerous, examples perpetrated by Right-leaning parties and their supporters during the past 8 years alone, never mind 14.

[@scooble]

Whilst mildly islamophobic is marginally better than strongly islamophobic, even a mild amount is still a hindrance to progress. Real progress though can only be achieved when the people call out Labours own institutional racism (see Martin Forde's comments ) which forces them to actually address it. Until then they'll fail to acknowledge it or act on it in a meaningful way.

[@firebyrd437]

So if it's just a lesser amount, that's just fine then is it?

[@scooble]

@@firebyrd437 ...I don't know ....is it? Who's saying it is?

[@ftumschk]

@@firebyrd437 Non-sequitur. However, as you ask, I'm not saying it's "fine", but Labour's alleged Islamophobia is certainly lesser in severity, and much rarer, than the Islamophobia of the Right.

[@modelcitizen2028]

Would that be the same Owen Jones: ardent brexiteer and covert tory operative? Just as well he tore up his Labour membership card and stormed off in a hissy fit! 😂

[@Bob-us9di]

Just a quick glance through some of the comments below gives a pretty strong indication that Jones has a very valid point. Moreover it's a pity that the nuanced analysis of his article by the Prof here is largely ignored in favour of penis waving by the usual suspects.

[@DropdudeJohn]

Do you want to state the reasons you think Jones has a valid point

[@anthonyferris8912]

Just want to say, I’m not homophobic or Islamophobic…It’s more an intolerance…like with dairy. 😃

[@STONEWALL148]

Yes you are full of it

[@anthonyferris8912]

Just remember Stonewall, keep away from high buildings when visiting Islamic countries...they can seriously damage your health. 😃

[@STONEWALL148]

@@anthonyferris8912 I think you might be more likely to end up kissing the concrete than me I'm not an Islamophobic like you

[@Stevestanwilson]

Also anti-Semitism too.

[@susanpettitt713]

Goodness how hard it is to remain critical and objective in these days. I actually passed on his article today probably due to prejudice and beliefs. Thanks for your analysis and post Sir.

[@empirebaran5060]

Sir, what did you think about " negative things " that spread on social media ? That usually made the person more sad ? and what did you do for make youself more postive

[@ruthjones5557]

I don’t doubt that Islamophobia exists but it doesn’t help public perception when the Police fail to investigate and prosecute Muslim grooming gangs, and by the way, Muslim grooming gangs are not restricted to the North of England. I’m a retired Child and Adolescent Mental Health Nurse based in the South East of England. I attended a number of girls who had been groomed by a Muslim grooming gang in Crawley. These girls came to the mental health services with significant mental health problems - self harm, repeated suicide attempts. They came from very difficult family circumstances and because they had no protection, they were extremely vulnerable to these gangs. For the record, these Muslim men were Mauritian but they operated in the same way as the gangs in the North. I spent so much time trying to get the Police and Child Protection Services to step in to get these girls out of the clutches of these gangs. I must have made hundreds of child protection referrals over a period of 3 years. I fought so hard to get help for these girls but not one Police Officer or Social Worker would help. The lack of support from the services that should have protected the girls is one of the main reasons that I resigned from the NHS. Like I said in the beginning, I don’t doubt that Islamophobia exists, but until the public sees our Police services stepping up the mark and arresting these gangs, Islamophobia will continue to grow. And I could cite other instances where the Police have stood in to protect Muslims but have left innocent victims without protection, like when the Police removed photographs of the Israeli kidnapping victims that were posted around London, but they were more than happy to allow marches for Palestinian victims, which in the whole were peaceful marches, but they failed to tackle the few hardliners calling for Jihad. It is the double standard that most decent people object to.

[@wilfhenderson1962]

The problem is the average person do not understand this intellectual discussion. The issue needs to be made less complicated. I found some of the thinking overly complex and Owen Jones is a good writer as you would expect from someone educated at Oxford but he is a divisive figure who has no political home

[@ashleywilson2072]

As the Labour Party has moved so far to the right, you require a magnifyer to tell them apart from the Tories. This leaves a magnificent yawning political gap on the left.

[@wilfhenderson1962]

@@ashleywilson2072 you obviously can’t read or listen

[@jsd8981]

Define the average person If you will !!!...

[@wilfhenderson1962]

@@jsd8981 half the population

[@jsd8981]

​@@wilfhenderson1962agreed totally...

[@Gunboat48dreamer]

The hubris of smug virtue signalling pragmatism is tying up what little intellect is on display here with cognitive dissonance 🤣😂

[@danbroome8772]

Partys don’t matter anymore 🎈completely different agenda! Going on here 😂 I didn’t get on with owen! Three years or so Ago will get on better today! 🤷🏻‍♂️👍🤓

[@annettebrewster-kl1gq]

I read Jones article earlier. I thought it was badly written and yet another opportunity to have a swipe at Labour. He has a cult following, so any criticism won't hurt. He'll keep on banging the same old drum.

[@DropdudeJohn]

You appear to have used an l where an n was needed.

[@modelcitizen2028]

Yes, OJ will do or say ANYTHING to remain relevant, not unlike the Orange One over the water in the US.

[@edwinmoreton2136]

Referring to 'anti-mass immigration protestors' and 'pro-mass immigration protestors', rather than name-calling might be a positive move on the part of the politicians and media?

[@philrichards7240]

Don't you mean anti-anti-mass immigration protesters? It is very different from being pro-mass immigration.

[@edwinmoreton2136]

@@philrichards7240 Maybe that is a third category? Wanna try for a fourth?

[@rexmundi7811]

I don't believe the "pro-mass migration" crowd would ever want to be associated with that moniker- it is much too accurate. They prefer to conceal their intentions behind terms like anti-racist. anti-fascist, socialist, communist, etc. It is uncomfortable for them to admit to themselves that they are, in fact, on the side of increasing corporate profits at the expense of the working class. My favorite example of this is when President Macron of France was a member of the socialist party while he was employed as a Rothschild banker.

[@donna25871]

Many people consider Tony Blair to be a war criminal for his actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[@ftumschk]

Blair, like some other Western leaders, went into iraq in support of his country's ally, the USA. It was a serious error of judgment, but an error nonetheless. Whilst I was opposed to the Iraq War, and remain so, I've never seen it as a war crime.

[@qetoun]

@@ftumschk That's not what happened. The USA needed a reason to invade Iraq and its intel services were honest and clever enough to say that they had nothing. So, Blair was called up as a man of no moral depth. He lied to the USA with the dodgy dossier, forged by MI6 head John Scarlet. It was Labour lying to the US.

[@qetoun]

Afghanistan was a legal war...Iraq was not. Blair's crimes would be waging a war of aggression based on falsified evidence used to justify a preemptive strike.

[@burpeesandbeard232]

And yes the finger should be pointed at both parties, just remembering Diane Abbott having the Wip removed for pointing the obvious between visible and non visible minorities, and further noticeable hierarchy of racism within even labour itself

[@chelsearobert3804]

Firstly as a result of my career which saw me work in 50 countries and live in 9, I value all human life. I therefore, do not care whether its a Russian, Ukrainian, Syrian, Yemeni, Palestinian life, it has an identical value, one life. My hate is for belligerents of all nationalities who kill combatants whether deliberately or recklessly. Therefore currently, Israel and Russia are both war criminals. Consequently, I have little time for people like Owen who care only for lives lost in conflict's which align with their unitary political perspective. If you care for the lives of Palestinian civilians killed by IDF, you also have to care for Ukrainians civilians killed by Russian Federation, otherwise your morality is fundamentally flawed and inconsistent. If you support only one and ignore the other, you are not a humanitarian, for ultimately you place no value on human life only your flawed utopian dream. Such a position is a position with no morality what-so-ever. As the likes of Mehdi Hussain and Professor Scott Lucas says the only morally secure position is to be pro- Palestine and pro- Ukrainian. Anything else is a contradictory and indefensible position. Owens position is therefore flawed.

[@redscouse8568]

Prof, you do find the strangest people "interesting" Jones is no different to your other favs Farage, Robinson, Tice, Braverman, Dorries they are all grifters.

[@howareyou857]

No. Although I don't always agree with Jones he is nothing like the people you have referenced

[@djbogz1921]

​@@howareyou857That's right. He's worse because he hides under his moral virtue signalling when he's actually an awful human being.

[@howareyou857]

@djbogz1921 not an ' awful human being' he is not deliberately spreading misinformation that leads to riots for starters

[@redscouse8568]

@@howareyou857 Jones is a band wagon jumper

[@howareyou857]

@@redscouse8568 seems pretty consistent with his opinions to me

[@SSRT_JubyDuby8742]

Like deployed 👍

[@sandyellis28]

Think there should be a cross-party task force to look into this. Must be awful for Muslims in UK at the moment. Think it all needs breaking down thou in terms of militant groups & the many v peaceful Muslims. Also Gaza is big factor & those that would like to see firmer action against Israel see UK & other countries as anti-Muslim. There may well be some of this but also issues on allies & interests, where UK & others won’t fall out with USA, who also don’t seem to be able to influence Israel much & continue to supply them.

[@ishubaba4202]

Farage : You don’t get a lucrative slot on GBNews without toeing the Murdoch line. In the past, the racists included the Jewish community in their list of targets. However, they, the racists & Jewish community are now seen as one. The StGeorges and Israeli flag are commonly seen together in the racists marches. EDL was originally registered as “English & Jewish Defence League(EDL)” Hence the redirection of societies ills to the Muslim community. If was claimed by “Dilly Hussein” that Nick Griffiin (BNP) had told him that he was approached and told he could criticise anything and everything except two - Zionism and the Banks

[@paulnewman2314]

Garbage.

[@colinthompson3111]

I just finished reading Owen Jones article in the Guardian. He didn't mention something important. He forgot to mention the anti racism protesters. They don't want violence in their communities. People should be proud that many in the community had the guts to do that. Mr. Jones, as always, uses his journalism to attack Keir Starmer. Respect for The Professor for pointing out the article from Mr. Jones.

[@stephfoxwell4620]

Waving a Palestine flag and chanting from the river to the sea is not anti-racist.

[@scooble]

So, I wonder, where does societies racism originate from? Could a major contributor be racist politicians which is then echoed and reinforced by the media?

[@DropdudeJohn]

No

[@DropdudeJohn]

@@scooble In certain areas I would say yes, for a better answer ask the teacher who is still currently in hiding

[@nicholasparish1968]

Afternoon Tim, Slightly off subject for this video but I watched Who Dares Wins 1982 film this morning. In my opinion the storyline is what is happening today. I initially watched it years ago when I was younger and thought it an action adventure but today having witnessed current events it has clarified the current situation especially here in the U Kay...

[@yasminpage7237]

I wonder when those young black athletes and others return from the Olympics when they were there representing the UK proudly return to see what's been happening. They were proudly flying the flafmg to represent and up lift a nation who does not see them as one of them. To know they can't walk freely down their local street because they could get attacked by one or more of their fellow white citizen and be told to go back where they come from and they were born here and orobably their parents were born hete. I wonder how they will feel.

[@thespectre717]

I agree completely with Owen Jones, he honestly deserves a hell of alot more credit than he gets

[@UK420KING]

More refugees More Boats More love is what we need in my opinion. ❤

[@nickmiller76]

Don't forget more taxation as well then, a lot more. I hope your job pays well, assuming you have one.

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[@AlphaBlizzardProductions2150AD]

I like owen jones only good news reporter in england who isnt tory

[@steveweeden7647]

Tim get the Batley teacher on for his opinion. You must be able to track him down being the clever fwllow you are. I think he changed his surname to Muhammad to blend in. Tim when are you going to leave 6th form??