A Deeper Look at Gates Carbon Belt Drives at Eurobike

[@kldstl]

Thanks Chris. You've had the most comprehensive ebike coverage at Eurobike. I'll be making a while purchase at Propel Bikes soon and you've done a great job helping me make up my mind.

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks Kirk! I’m happy to do it. I’ve always been super impressed by the show and I’m grateful to have my videographer Tara to help me share this with others. Feel free to reach out anytime

[@AdventuresInTheSky]

They should make belts in a bunch of bright colors, would look pretty cool on a bike and be great “marketing” for the company. Like when Apple first came out with white headphones it was a huge way to market a product and for people to ask questions like, “what is that?”

[@Propelbikes]

They have made some colored belts, usually they do the inside in blue, some are red. I think it’s a cool concept, but some bike designers might not like the belt to be the focal point.

[@SimonPodolak]

Love mine with the blue inside. unfortunately it doesn't last for too long. Waiting for my CenterTrack to arrive, looks even better.

[@ABFPV584]

The marketing guy is stoked and I love it.

[@Propelbikes]

That’s Jonathan! He’s an awesome guy for sure!

[@Bugatti12563]

Have it for over a year now and will never go back to a chain. Quiet, no maintenance and looks cool.

[@Propelbikes]

I think you’re not alone here. Definitely a great way to go!

[@lukegrady5357]

Is there any drag ?

[@K1989L]

I know have two bikes with Gates. Love the belt drive! I bought my fisrt three years ago. Best thing about it is that you never need to tension it again unless you do something else like change a tire.

[@K1989L]

@@lukegrady5357 Yes there is a bit. The lower the tension the lower drag. But don't go too low. The gates phone app will help with that.

[@lucamuller6729]

@@Propelbikes cycling through winter for my commute, I really want to switch, thanks for the short and informative video

[@TheMNBlackBear]

I am in the middle of rebuilding my Surly Pugsley into a Gates Belt Drive. I've finally located all the correct parts and a frame welder who has expertise with the Gates system and the frame modification. This is going to be really great!

[@Propelbikes]

Cool! What drivetrain are you running?

[@TheMNBlackBear]

@@Propelbikes I bought the bike used. It was stock from Surly, running a front and rear derailleur and chain. But of course the best derailleur is no derailleur, so I got a new rear wheel and rebuilt it with a Shimano Alpine 8 gear hub, which is great--but not great enough. I knew something was still dreadfully wrong with this picture, so got to thinking and researching to find the missing link... I found it! It was a belt drive! I first tried to avoid the frame modification and researched the Veer system. But Veer cannot accommodate this fat bike frame. So I went back to the Gates system and found everything I need. Gates has the best selection of parts and the best parts and dominates the market. I will order the parts Monday. I will then take bike and parts to the frame welder for modification and assembly. Can't wait! My next build will be from scratch and will be another steel frame, fat bike, Gates Belt Drive, and Rohloff 14 spd gear hub. In fact all my bikes from here on out will be Gates Belt Drive. There's no other way to go.

[@Propelbikes]

Super cool! Way to go with a low maintenance all terrain bike. We love Gates! Stay tuned for another video on Gates soon.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

A few years ago when I built my 1st e-bike & wanted knowledgeable help to check my work the only shop I trusted was Propel. I saw an R&M Delite with a belt drive and Nuvinci CVT and was instantly curious. I only went for a test drive but it is, to date, the smoothest drive train I've ridden. If they prove as reliable (long lived) as expected chains will become extinct. I also like an IGH because muck doesn't mess with the gears.

[@GreggMPlahy]

Chris, I very much enjoy my R & M Bosch Mid Drive Motor & Carbon Drive Belt combined W/the Nuvinci N380CVT. This combo is Caterpillar quiet, & grease free. This is the first Brand New Bicycle I have ever owned. I am retired & 61 years old and love riding. Thanks for your videos, and I will be stopping by your Long Beach shop soon.

[@Propelbikes]

That’s an awesome bike Gregg! I look forward to meeting you in person.

[@ferryengr]

Maybe a silly question, but wonder if the cogs can be flipped to double the wear - that is put wear on the other side of the sprocket tooth?

[@Propelbikes]

I think once they get worn they will end up with a sharp edge so even if you flip them I think you will put your belt in jeopardy. There is also a offset at times so flipping the belt would impact the belt line or the clearance from the frame or motor.

[@ferryengr]

@@Propelbikes Makes sense - thanks for the info.

[@charlesbridgford254]

The belt already wears on both sides....from the drive side, and the driven side

[@macpdm]

Love my Gates belt drive but at 500mls on my new Tern i had to spray it with dry silicone spray. As recommended by Gates. This is because it had become noisy. It’s totally fine again now and I still love it for its advantages over chain drive.

[@Propelbikes]

I think in particularly dusty areas this can be a challenge

[@macpdm]

@@Propelbikes it’s been dry and hot here in the UK where I am for some time now. I suspect as you do dust/grit must cause some issues. But as I say I still think it’s an excellent system and if an occasional quick spray with dry lube resolves it. I have no issue with that.

[@VideoNOLA]

Do you recall which brand of silicone spray you used? All I have is the WD-40 branded version, which I love for so many other applications.

[@biiiiiiiiiix]

I want one on my next bike. Do you have a miles estimation about how long it last approximately ? How most does it cost to change cog + belt ? Thanks !

[@Propelbikes]

We see belts last upwards of 10k miles and between the belt and cogs you're usually looking at around 300-400 for replacing everything.

[@michidwyer4845]

Propel Electric Bikesu.

[@Intrud0r]

I ride it daily and for commuting I could not imagine anything better. Gear hubs could be better, the really good ones are expensive and need a special frame, the cheaper ones lack the spreading. Not a big deal for commuting but still a thing.

[@Propelbikes]

Great points! I agree :)

[@roye2479]

Me too, my Ltrain has a nexus 7 and I need lower gears for climbing hills

[@lawrencejneuser8801]

I have a 1991 aluminum Raleigh mountain bike, how hard is it to switch from a chain drive to a belt drive? And are there Kit's available to make the change? I'm thinking of a Rohloff 14 speed

[@yru435]

Is the belt unidirectional?? Can the sprockets be reversed in place??

[@vasipro]

4:20 Super quiet?! Mine squeaks in just 2000Kms. Tension is correct. What is causing it?

[@anshuljain2130]

Is there any option of retrofitting a gates belt drive onto a bike with a 1x7 gear set if an internal gear hub is retrofitted as well?

[@VideoNOLA]

Note how the Gates guys never quite get around to explaining the technical differences between their CDN and CDX line of belts. Density? QC? Number of cords? Manufacturing process? Trade secret? In the absence of that information, it starts to feel like the only difference is price point and smart marketing.

[@lukegrady5357]

Is there any drag on these belts ? Probably more then a chain.

[@daveyoil]

Jonathan and Zach are at GATES? That's great!

[@Propelbikes]

It sure is! Glad they are staying in the ebike biz

[@kldstl]

Is there any way to add an internal hub gear and Gates carbon belt to any bike like a Vektron?

[@Propelbikes]

No folders at the moment. The closest would be the HSD or the Riese & Müller Tinker. They have folding handlebars but the frame is fixed.

[@misterwizz5690]

Another great informative video, thanks Chris.

[@rondhole]

Timing belts were used pretty heavily in 1990s but most Japanese cars now use Timing Chain. Some European cars cannot make a good timing chain and stretch out and newest Golf and GTI use timing belt gain, match with their lifespan anyway.

[@POLEZINA]

What ameizing tahnology.

[@Propelbikes]

I agree! We’re grateful To have this available on many ebikes these days :)

[@ethanang7743]

For us peeps in south east asia with weight limit 20kg inclusive of battery and 25kmph limit. What kind of ebikes with belt drivetrain is available?

[@DavidSmith-sy2bp]

If there was a design for ability to be used on a gear and derailleur system that would be interesting to see

[@Propelbikes]

I think we might see this in the future.

[@roye2479]

I have the cdx on my Ltrain, works great, but there's a noticeable increase in frictional loses compared to my well-waxed race bike.

[@czondag]

Very nice video!

[@arindammaity276]

How can I get this belt and pulley drive

[@TheMNBlackBear]

The front load cargo makes sense if only because it is easier to push loads than it is to pull them.

[@Propelbikes]

This is a great point!

[@jklphoto]

Hey Gates Marketing Guy: Change that slogan to "Adventure Unchained". Concise is always better.

[@Propelbikes]

I’ll let Jonathan know 😉

[@jklphoto]

@@Propelbikes BTW, really enjoying your content. Ready to buy a Benno Boost, but also LOVE the Gates belt drive system. Don't want to spend $7500 for R&M. Do you think your friend Benno will consider this in the future?

[@Propelbikes]

Thanks! Glad you are enjoying the videos! I don’t see Benno adding a belt in the near future, but time will tell. You could also consider a bike coming off demo or a used bike. Do you need a cargo bike?

[@jklphoto]

@@Propelbikes Wife and I recently moved to the Florida Panhandle, about 5 miles from the beach. We would love to be able to bike there with the usual beach accouterments. Tons of paved bike trails here and off-road sandy trail options in nearby State Forest. I like the Benno Boost due to its utility. Yes, it's a cargo bike, but that's like saying the Chevy El Camino was a pickup truck. It seems like it could be anything I need it to be, especially with the new knobbies Benno told you about instead of the DS tires now standard.

[@Propelbikes]

@@jklphoto Awesome! I'm planning to visit Benno in the near future. Maybe I can squeeze a secret out of him about his plans with a belt. I totally get and understand what you're saying about not painting the Boost in a corner by calling a cargo bike. It's cool that you get that. ;)

[@r4z0r1]

Wondering about their low estimated lifetime. Have my belt now for 14500km on the Charger Nuvinci HS. Only thing nowadays I get a bit of squeaking noise when the belt is really dusty. Do you recommend a change, Chris?

[@Propelbikes]

We’re seeing many as similar life so I too wondered about their reports. I think as long as the belt still has the protective coating and it’s performing well I would probably keep using it. If seen reports of the belt going to 30000km. Not sure if this short service life is recommended to sell more belts. I think if you keep it clean and keep the tension right you can see a very long life.

[@davidbach7003]

How does it shift?

[@Propelbikes]

The gears are internal like a transmission. That or you can have a single speed transmission. Most use a belt with what’s called an internally geared hub.

[@greedfox7842]

I have a geared hub on my unicycle and it is a bitch to maintenance...

[@machinesandthings7121]

@@greedfox7842 what type? I've heard the Rohloff is super reliable and easy to change the internal oil. But the other brands are junk.

[@rollylaurente4921]

Sir gd pm I have porsche mountain bike 2011 model but the zise of Drive belt I dont now u can help me sir

[@matthijsjansen5838]

Awesome technology .

[@Propelbikes]

It sure is cool! I wonder what they will develop next!

[@eccentricworx]

i love mine, will never go back to a chain!

[@Propelbikes]

They sure are awesome!

[@Michael-wn4jj]

Meanwhile I got 21000 km on trekking pedelec with Gates CDX. Belt and Nexus 8 chain ring still looking good. The front chain ring is worn showing shark like tooth. I'm going to replace it. The new one is labled EXP (Expedition) should support an even longer lifetime.

[@michaelmatthews4096]

Hi guys I have the Gates belt as well on my bike and i love the belt,with the shamano Alfine 8 speed ,amazing ride.

[@Propelbikes]

Sweet! Which bike do you have?

[@michaelmatthews4096]

@@Propelbikes i have the SCOTT sub 10 Gates belt drive.

[@Propelbikes]

Nice ride!

[@lazurm]

How can a polyurethane coated belt wear out a metal cog, considering that polyurethane is much softer? The only thing I can imagine is that the dust that accumulates on the belt is made of a harder substance. If so, then spraying water over the belt often should vastly increase a cog's longevity. Yes?

[@surronzak8154]

9:22 what about real mud, this is more like dirty water

[@grahamcoppin57]

I must have been very unlucky, mine only lasted about 7000km before disintegrating far from home, 60 Euros for a new one, i was loving it until then. G.

[@timvanderwiel5105]

I guess me too, mine lasted maybe 200km then I stretched it when I gave it all my force. It was ruined after that and was constanty coming off

[@2DMax00]

Veer is more useful; you don't have to modify a frame to use veer, and you can easily source custom sizes.

[@nekomanz]

Honestly im surprised people have not done this already on e bikes. Cars and Motorcycles and lawn mowers have belt drives. So i have no idea how they patent that idea xD They just wanted to clam a idea that someone already did greedy honestly if they keep that for them sleeves

[@djedUVprojector]

So the belt wears rather than the front chain ring or rear cassette...

[@greedfox7842]

what cassette? these use geared hubs, which are terrible.

[@pentagate1]

Weird. I want to get a belt drive bike Coe a commuter but all the stores I go to are telling me belts are all but dead now. Anyone else finding the same problem?

[@Propelbikes]

Belts are on the rise in our shop. I think we will continue to see more of them, especially on commuter ebikes. It just makes sense from my perspective.

[@pentagate1]

Propel Electric Bikes Glad that's your experience. Western Canada has not gotten much past the knowledge of belt drives. Certainly no bikes with belts in any shop, and it's a visible strain to look them up online for them. Talking to other rides, can't say they know of them. Wonder if perhaps I should bring them in myself. I know I'm not getting a commuter without a belt.

[@Propelbikes]

Look at Tern, Bulls and Riese & Müller. These brands have several ebikes with a belt. Not as familiar with the non-electric ones, but I know there are several brands out there that offer belts as well. I think Gates has a list on their website. Maybe that’s a good place to start. If you don’t have luck we’ll be happy to help.

[@greedfox7842]

no derailleur... just geared hubs... so unless you ride fixie this isn't for you.

[@SuchtFaktorHoch10]

lasts 3 times more and costs 4 times more. not even talking about all the other parts (chainrings and so on). You need a special bike which is far more expensive than any off the shelf product. And you can't use normal derailer systems. You need an even more expensive hub system. The belt itself sounds nice but all the other stuff is way too expensive to make the belt even work. If you have that money upfront you are welcome. But I don't see why my bike should exceed way beyond 1200 bucks. For that price it should be an awesome cook. Oh maybe someone who drives this thing. Does it make noises when it get's wet. Some people have this problem. Or does the teeth of the chainring eat the belt on occasion?

[@Propelbikes]

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but the people we know that have chosen to opt for the belt never regret their decision from what I see. It cost more upfront but if you ride a lot it usually costs less in maintenance and maintenance is significantly less frequent. They say 3 times, but in practice we are talking upwards of 10x the life of a chain, especially on an ebike. No problem when it’s wet, as long as the tension is set correctly. The teeth can damage the belt if they’re significantly worn, but that’s not a common thing as it takes a lot to wear them out.

[@otm646]

Look at the Brilliant Bikes Cooper, it's $400 with a revised, lower cost, Gates belt drive. There are lots of great options under $1000, or $600. These reps are being very conservative in their language, the belt drive is proving to be extremely durable.

[@greedfox7842]

great part for BMX and fixie.

[@cheryee3659]

I did install KABA german auto door in mall before their belt have steel wire inside

[@DavidSmith-sy2bp]

Arrrrggggghhhh bearded guys microphone !!!!!!

[@Propelbikes]

Sorry about that.

[@rollylaurente4921]

Sir belt typ the zise all same

[@VideoNOLA]

P.S. There's no technical reason that a bike could not have TWO belts, one on either side of the rear wheel. It might be worth exploring in terms of redundancy, keeping the drive wheel's dish minimal, as well as keeping everything centered (which benefits things like bearings).

[@Dr4g0nW00d]

Driving the new 2020 R&M Silent GT with the belt and the new-gen 3 bosch motor the best E-bike you can buy and yes the bike is SILENT you hear NOTHING

[@timvanderwiel5105]

They should make a stronger model belt for heavy/strong users I destroyed my belt after only 5 bike rides

[@Propelbikes]

I think it likely wasn’t setup right. I would check the belt line and tension. There is a heavier duty version out now as well

[@timvanderwiel5105]

@@Propelbikes yeah maybe but I'm also a big guy and the assist mode was on turbo and it was in heavy gear and then I put on my full 110 kg. So perhaps I need a heavy duty version

[@Propelbikes]

Just make sure they replace with the newest stock of the belt which is slightly upgraded and most importantly make sure the belt line is straight.

[@greedfox7842]

pointless for the peloton, because of the 6.8k thing... I'm also not a fan of geared hubs, I have one on my unicycle and I hate it. but I want one for my BMX fixie.

[@Propelbikes]

Not sure what you mean about the 6.8k thing? Belt on a BMX bike would be cool for sure.

[@greedfox7842]

@@Propelbikes the minimum allowed weight on bikes in the peloton is 6.8 kilo. so reducing weight there is basically pointless because most carbon bikes are under that weight.

[@DrSnipe83]

But they don't make 1 arm cranks with the teeth.

[@stevechance150]

30,000 KM is what the guy in this video ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/boSuloRsd5eIis0 ) says you can get, and he knows what he's talking about.

[@Propelbikes]

Pretty respectable for sure.

[@garethglover]

With so many new ebike brands coming out of China, How can you spot a fake Gates Carbon Belt Drive?

[@Propelbikes]

That’s a good question. We haven’t seen much of any here in the US. Not sure if that’s different in other parts of the world.

[@garethglover]

Any advice on how to spot a fake?

[@Propelbikes]

I haven’t seen one so I wouldn’t know.

[@funkyguy99]

@@garethglover 'Made in China' might be a clue that its a fake!🤔

[@jrap170]

I love rust, so I'll stick to my chain

[@Interdiction]

Anyone done a belt drive capable of handling 200 hp

[@genegroover3721]

You would be an average interviewer If you would Quit talking over the experts. As you are currently, you take an awesome opportunity to learn from the experts and spend too much time trying to sound like you are the expert. Be patient and listen to them.

[@YKuster]

The marketing guy is annoying