A Defense of Baptismal Regeneration in Response to Brian Schwertley

[@riahsrabbitry9268]

The biggest mistake Brian made was making a theological argument without a library of books as a background, every KZbin pastor knows this 😂

[@Dilley_G45]

Very true. As a calvinist he would think that books innthe background would be a distraction to your faith like a cross in a Church

[@margaritalopez4990]

Very good contribution...this help a lot to fallacy of autority... like other things...😂

[@shahstormaggedoni5854]

31:10 "Now Melanchthon betrayed Luther and became an Arminian" actually caused me to burst out in laughter.

[@ridgetheh2obuffalo246]

He's not totally wrong tho hahaha

[@stevecpa66]

I believe it was given in his bathroom. That's a shower curtain behind him.

[@SpotterVideo]

Old Covenant Baptism vs. New Covenant Baptism (water vs. Spirit) Water baptism was a part of the Old Covenant system of ritual washing. The Old Covenant priests had to wash before beginning their service in the temple. (Ex. 30:17-30) When Christ was water baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan River, He was under the Old Covenant system. He also only ate certain foods, and wore certain clothes, as prescribed by the 613 Old Covenant laws. Christ was water baptized by John and then the Holy Spirit came from heaven. The order is reversed in the New Covenant. A person receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion, and then believers often declare their conversion to their friends and family through a water baptism ceremony. Which baptism makes you a member of Christ’s Church? The New Covenant conversion process is described below. (Born-again) Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (A person must “hear” the Gospel, and “believe” the Gospel, and will then be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit.) Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (See Jer. 31:34 for the New Covenant promise, and 1 John 2:27 for the fulfillment) ============ Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says? What did Peter say below? Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water when they read the word "baptize" in the text. Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage? Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (See 1 Cor. 12:13) “baptize” KJV Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Water or Holy Spirit?, See Eph. 1-13.) Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (See Eph. 4:1-5) Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Old Covenant ----> New Covenant) How many people have been saved by the Old Covenant water baptism of John the Baptist? Who did John the Baptist say is the greatest Baptist that ever lived in Luke 3:16? What kind of New Covenant baptism comes from Christ? Hebrews 9:10 Old Covenant vs. New Covenant (CSB) They are physical regulations and only deal with food, drink, and various washings imposed until the time of the new order. (ESV) but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation. (ESV+) but deal only with R5food and drink and R6various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation. (Geneva) Which only stood in meates and drinkes, and diuers washings, and carnal rites, which were inioyned, vntill the time of reformation. (GW) These gifts and sacrifices were meant to be food, drink, and items used in various purification ceremonies. These ceremonies were required for the body until God would establish a new way of doing things. (KJV) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (KJV+) Which stood onlyG3440 inG1909 meatsG1033 andG2532 drinks,G4188 andG2532 diversG1313 washings,G909 andG2532 carnalG4561 ordinances,G1345 imposedG1945 on them untilG3360 the timeG2540 of reformation.G1357 (NKJV) concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. (NLT) For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies-physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established. (YLT) only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances-till the time of reformation imposed upon them .

[@zoomie74drill]

Paul does describe circumcision as a sign and seal. You seem to indicate at ~ 11:36 that he does not describe circumcision with that language. Rom 4: 11" He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised." So I take it the Old Covenant sign of circumcision is both a sign and a seal. Ergo, in Col 2, when he says baptism is the circumcision of Christ, I infer that baptism is also a sign and seal

[@charlesweidman4812]

Please respond further, I am thinking of becoming a confessional Lutheran

[@DrJordanBCooper]

Charles Weidman Have you watched all three parts?

[@mrhartley85]

Same here

[@chrisjones2458]

To comment on at 47:26. Hyper calvinists may, and Primitive Baptists would deny the necessity of means. As you are saying in Lutheranism, baptism is a means, so we believe the Gospel preached is a means, or in other words, the necessary means, which, aided by the work of the Spirit, faith is wrought in the hearts of the elect, at Gods appointed time. The sacraments can be means of grace, or in other words, strengthen a faith that already exists, but they are not necessary means nor do we believe they, without knowledge of and faith in the gospel can be means at all. The preached Word (Romans 10:14,15 etc.)is a necessary means, therefore we would deny that baptism could be a vehicle. Also, we cannot say regeneration has occurred until there are definite marks of it evident in the person, namely repentance and faith; although the Spirit works beforehand in effectual calling, it’s not until the results of effectual calling by the Spirit are evident that we can say it genuinely occurred.

[@lc-mschristian5717]

Thank you. At one time I would agree with this man but thanks be to God, Im now Lutheran ! God's peace be with you

[@AdamSmith-ec5nv]

A good point RE: glorified in Romans 8:30 is that it is parallel to Ephesians 2:6. It is past tense. Glorified does not refer to final salvation.

[@reformedwretch2071]

Adam Smith Surprising that anyone would conclude that given that Romans 8 talks over and over about glorification, and it does not define it as something in the past. In God's plan of salvation, those whom He chose are as good as glorified in His mind. Tradition is what makes you and others twist those passages to substantiate your claims and beliefs.

[@frednaumann992]

Yes more of this please. I love to lean the counter arguments that people have against lutheranism

[@jacobmbush8982]

I have been pouring back through these videos trying to find this, but I cannot. You mention Hodge's systematic in one of these; then, you mention another author of a systematic theology who was an associate of Philip Schaff. Can you remind me of his name?

[@DrJordanBCooper]

John Nevin probably.

[@jacobmbush8982]

@@DrJordanBCooper Thank you, Reverend. I am a Confessional Baptist, but your ministry has been very helpful in developing my sacramental theology nonetheless!

[@ashleysbored6710]

I think Jordan is slowly making me believe Lutheranism

[@matthewfisher4481]

Romans 4:11 "He received the sign of circumcision as a seal"

[@dimitri1225]

So ?

[@matthewfisher4481]

@@dimitri1225 Idk actually. It has been so long since I wrote this idk why I did. If I remember correctly from the video he was pressing the point that associating "sign and seal" ideas to the covenant was not explicitly biblical. But Romans 4:11 invites us to think in these categories as biblical categories in covenant theology.

[@matthewfisher4481]

Well I watched the into again and that is exactly what he did make it sound like, sign and seal was not a biblical way to look at the covenants, that's why I put that there he was just wrong. Thats all. I didnt really watch much more after that last time. I am not very familiar with the Lutheran position, but now that i listened to the end of the video I see his explanation as simply saying baptism is a means of giving faith to the presumed infant through nondiscursive means. This makes no sense to me as a reformed Christian. Word and sacrament come together and there is a real blessing in baptism, but to pronounce regeneration at baptism is too much for me considering that he defines regeneration as something you can fall away from. All of the falling away passages make sense in covenant theology for example Hebrew 6 and 10 make perfect sense with covenant community language of the OT. Judging by your name I assume you know a lot about the lutheran position i would be willing to learn the nuances.

[@matthewfisher4481]

@@dimitri1225 read below i added more

[@marekfoolforchrist]

@@matthewfisher4481 Thank you, Matthew!

[@TheTheologizingSubject]

@Jordan do you have a book dedicated to the Lutheran view of baptism?

[@gumbyshrimp2606]

The Bible

[@TheTheologizingSubject]

@@gumbyshrimp2606 Two years late. Reformed Baptist now 😂

[@donaldjacobson4184]

Thanks. I loved this.

[@pccj316]

Hey Dr Cooper, do you have a article or specific portion of Condord touching each verse supporting baptismal regeneration?

[@Mygoalwogel]

Matthew 3:15 Jesus insisted that even John's baptism was fitting for them to fulfill all righteousness. A servant is not greater than his Lord. Matthew 3:16 In baptism, the Father claims the Son. The Spirit rests on the Son. Matthew 21:25 Mere water baptism is a gift from Heaven. Matthew 28:19 Make disciples by baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and by teaching. Mark 1:4 Mere water baptism = repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Mark 16:16 *Baptized believers are saved, unbelievers condemned.* Luke 7:29 Even water baptism is a public declaration that God is righteous. Luke 7:30 *Rejecting even mere water baptism = rejecting God's purpose for you.* John 1:31, 33 John knew beforehand that God would reveal the Christ through baptism. Acts 2:38 *Repentance and baptism = forgiveness and the Spirit.* Acts 2:39-41 3000 bachelors, virgins, wives, husbands, and *children of all ages received forgiveness and the Spirit in baptism.* The smallest can't have decided to repent in a mature way, but they were not excluded. Acts 8 Many early church Bible readers saw a distinction between the Spirit's invisible gift of repentance/forgiveness and the Spirit's visible gift of leadership/ordination. Philip the Evangelist could baptize but not bestow spiritual authority. Only the apostles could do that. Acts 22:16 *Baptism washes away sins.* Romans 6:3, 4 *Baptism is death to sin, death with Christ, and newness of life in Christ.* 1 Corinthians 1 Baptism must not turn into hero worship, cliques, and factionalism. 1 Corinthians 12:22, 13 On the contrary, baptism is unity in the one Holy Spirit in Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:29 Even superstitious baptism declares the resurrection of the dead. Galatians 3:27, 28 Baptism clothes every member of the body of Christ in equality. Ephesians 3:5 There is one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all. Colossians 2:11 Baptism is a works-free death, a cutting off of the flesh. Colossians 2:12 Christ was buried. You were buried with Christ *in baptism.* God raised Christ from the dead. You believe God raised Christ from the dead. Therefore, God raised you with Christ *in baptism.* This is all *God’s powerful work.* Hebrews 6:1-2 *Baptism is a basic foundational teaching. You can't say you believe in Jesus while rejecting his basic teachings.* 1 Peter 3:20 Noah was saved by water, not from water. The flood waters washed away much evil. 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism now *saves you!* Baptism is assurance/demand of a good conscience before God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This verse summarizes all that has been said above.

[@MortenBendiksen]

Thanks for your videos. I've been quite confused for a while about faith and what it is. I really sympathise with calvinism because it's so tempting to intellectualise and define faith, which has really lead me down the thought patterns this guy is displaying for a while, even though I have no calvinist background. Your videos on sacraments has really finally let me come to rest that I actually have faith, and that it was given to me and continues to be given to me by God's means, regardless of all my faults. The only thing to be "afraid" of, is that I should become someone who would reject it. Which seems to be a real danger, since it is warned so much against in scripture, and yet it seems to not be likely to happen if one is even slightly concerned that it might happen. Could this be a point of agreement with RC and EO? Some work might be required, not to receive faith, but to keep ones hands open to it? Or am I missing something there?

[@steverentfrow2415]

Thanks Pastor Cooper, appreciated your talk on this subject. I see this was some time ago; but I think I'll make some comments here anyway. "What He acomplished by His sinless Holy life...Faith lays hold of that.. " Rev. Brian Shortly (as I heard his name) emphasized the "By faith", the laying hold of God's works, sinlessness, holy life, by faith (his repeated comment); But he didn't seem to understand that the language of "By faith" was a short hand summery that showed this salvation to not be by (our own) works; but by Christ's works given to us BY GRACE through faith. He discounts the means of grace and says that it's rather by faith. He should understand that God gives His gifts (Grace)by means that are received -through faith-. An Old Testament example: Naaman the leper was healed by grace through faith. God put his grace, Word of Promise, in the waters of the Jordan. Unbelief would have kept him away from those Waters of Promise, away from the grace of God for him. Through faith in the promise, which promise was connected with those waters, received the grace (healings). God makes our salvation sure; and the waters of baptism are the "for you" surety the we are thus united with Christ... Rev. Brian Shortly's message takes away the sureness of the promise applied by telling us to "Lay hold of it by faith". What does that mean? That we reason it out in our heads that it's true, we mentally assent to it...? No wonder many who think like this don't think babies can believe, have faith; because, to them, faith is an exercise of our mental capacity. "You would think that Paul would be more of a champion of baptism" - Rev. Brian Shortly Wow, talk about misunderstanding Paul. "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death,..." Romans 6 Even when Paul quotes Joel 2:32 in Rom 10:13 ( "For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” ) he has baptism in mind, of which he just wrote of earlier. This is clearly seen in the Book of Acts where Ananias said to him, And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’ Paul understood baptism as both a washing away of sin and a calling on His Name.

[@ArtVandelay-ImporterExporter]

Can you post a link to the sermon you are critiqued? I see one on sermon audio but it's several years old.

[@seanmoore9713]

What is a good source outside of Concord which talks about Lutheran soteriology? I'm coming from a Calvinistic Baptist background, so the concept of being truly united to Christ yet not elect and then falling away is new to me.

[@margaritalopez4990]

Min 24.35 say that sctiptures doesn't say that Spirit is the seal but check efesians 1.13, 14 please...

[@thethikboy]

These objections were made at the time of Luther? It seems primarily a reform view..

[@lorenzomurrone2430]

One simple question I have concerning sacramentarianism. Why would God even bother to give us such a symbol? I mean, it makes sense for the Lord's Supper (so we remember Christ), but why baptism?

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

Good question, Lorenzo. If you get to Heaven you ask God why. Or ask Him now, and by the Holy Spirit He will answer you.

[@danielfinn9460]

To understand Baptism and the Lord's Supper, we should start with the Lord's words, not our powers of reason. After He gave the bread and the cup, Jesus said, "this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Mt. 26:28). So, the forgiveness of sins is given in the Lord's Supper. Jesus commanded baptism as the way His disciples are supposed to make more disciples. As it is written in Matthew 28:18-20, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." So, we should make disciples of Jesus by baptizing people in God's name and teaching them God's Word.

[@lorenzomurrone2430]

@@danielfinn9460 I agree, which is why I directed my question to the sacramentarians

[@juggler8524]

So as Lutherans faith doesn't necessarily make us part of the elect? Rather, the elect are those that persevere?

[@DrJordanBCooper]

I don't have a problem using the language of election in both a broader and narrower sense. If we are part of the people of God, we can have assurance that we are elect in Christ. Our faith was given as a gift of God, solely by his grace as determined in eternity past. However, in the most particular sense, the "elect" is a reference to those who finally persevere.

[@AdamSmith-ec5nv]

@@DrJordanBCooper don't you think that the way election is used in scripture almost always refers to the church in the here and now (or 1st century as it were) rather than final salvation?

[@AdamSmith-ec5nv]

And also wouldn't that be consistent with the way the concept is used in the OT (i.e., the remnant).

[@Liminalplace1]

Have you looked at Gordon Fees exegesis of key passages that are often taken in support of baptismal regeneration, or that the Spirir is received in baptism. I refer to his "Gods Empowering Presence" .

[@DrMJS]

I think I have grown so accustomed to seeing vestments (a good thing!) that I am distracted by his "flashy" shirt and tie - are these "vestments" of church-as-business?

[@Mygoalwogel]

He's not wearing vestments because this isn't the Divine Service, and he's primarily speaking as a theologian, not as your called and ordained servant of the word.

[@margaritalopez4990]

Dr you has said that "The Scripture never use this lenguage de sign and seal" in min 11:4-19. But you must to read what says in Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also"... a little sad.

[@thomasdobbs6676]

Excellent video

[@ahazureus]

Dear Dr. Jordan B Cooper, I hear what you are saying, Annnd! I agree with you wholeheartedly, (Baptism) is not necessary, to accomplish the (Death of Self, the old man) to be crucified with Christ Jesus; but 'NOW' you have a dead body on your hands, that has to be buried [We are speaking of the spirit realm]! How has God provided for us, Christians, to be buried? We bury our dead "At Sea", in the waters of Baptism! We die with Christ, then we have to be buried in the Waters of Baptism, then we rise up, out of the water, symbolically following Christ in His Resurrection! Our initial (Salvation) is when we believe on the Name of Jesus Christ; "NOTHING ELSE"; you have died with Christ, you have died to self, the battle with satan, for your soul begins; but what do you do with the "old man's" dead spiritual body"??? In the case of Paul and Silas (Acts 16) when the earthquake opened the cell doors, the Roman jailer was just about to kill himself; Paul stopped him and then told him! Acts 16: 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, (and thou shalt be saved), and thy house) [done deal, finished work]. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the "same hour of the night", and washed their stripes; """and was baptized, he and all his, straightway""".

[@JRMusic933]

I know this is rather old, but I just wanted to note about what I see from a reformed perspective. To me the debate around perseverance is more about how regeneration fits into the ordo salutis. We both agree on the basic conclusion of the doctrine of perseverance, that all of the elect are saved and that its a monergistic act. However the debate seems to me to be about the extent of a persons ability to participate in union with christ as a non elect person. Certainly the pastor here made perseverance somewhat central, but I don't think that's as much the case in terms of our systematics.

[@cooperthatguy1271]

Perseverance of the saints and irresistible grace ñ is really what holds the argument up.

[@TruthHasSpoken]

While I obviously believe Brian Schwertley is wrong on baptismal regeneration, if one holds to Sola Scriptura, one really can't argue well against him. He has every right to interpret scripture if he believes he is being led to truth by the Holy Spirit. Of course, this makes not the bible the "final authority" but Brian himself. Scripture itself is explicit: baptism now saves you (1 Pet 3:21). Why is this: because it restores sanctifying grace lost in the sin of Adam. This is what the bible teaches. This is what the apostles taught their descendants and what the descendants taught their descendants. It's why they all taught that infants should be baptized. Scripture... teaches that baptism is regenerative. Titus 3:5-7 - “He saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs of eternal life.” The words of St Cyprian say the same. “[W]hen they come to us and to the Church which is one, ought to be baptized, for the reason that it is a small matter to ‘lay hands on them that they may receive the Holy Ghost,’ unless they receive also the baptism of the Church. For then finally can they be fully sanctified, and be the sons of God, if they be born of each sacrament; since it is written, ‘Except a man be born again of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.’…[O]nly baptism of the holy Church, by divine regeneration, for the kingdom of God, may be born of both sacraments, because it is written, ‘Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'” Cyprian, To Stephen, 71:72 (A.D. 253). As does St Hilary of Poiters. “We are circumcised not with a fleshly circumcision but with the circumcision of Christ, that is, we are born again into a new man; for, being buried with Him in His baptism, we must die to the old man, because the regeneration of baptism has the force of resurrection.” Hilary of Poitiers, Trinity, 9:9 (A.D. 359). And St Ambrose. “Therefore read that the three witnesses in baptism, the water, the blood, and the Spirit, are one, for if you take away one of these, the Sacrament of Baptism does not exist. For what is water without the cross of Christ? A common element, without any sacramental effect. Nor, again, is there the Sacrament of Regeneration without water: ‘For except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'” Ambrose, On the Mysteries, 4:20 (A.D. 391). Who taught St Augustine the same. “But the sacrament of baptism is undoubtedly the sacrament of regeneration: Wherefore, as the man who has never lived cannot die, and he who has never died cannot rise again, so he who has never been born cannot be born again. From which the conclusion arises, that no one who has not been born could possibly have been born again in his father. Born again, however, a man must be, after he has been born; because, ‘Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God’ Even an infant, therefore, must be imbued with the sacrament of regeneration, lest without it his would be an unhappy exit out of this life; and this baptism is not administered except for the remission of sins. And so much does Christ show us in this very passage; for when asked, How could such things be? He reminded His questioner of what Moses did when he lifted up the serpent. Inasmuch, then, as infants are by the sacrament of baptism conformed to the death of Christ, it must be admitted that they are also freed from the serpent’s poisonous bite, unless we wilfully wander from the rule of the Christian faith. This bite, however, they did not receive in their own actual life, but in him on whom the wound was primarily inflicted.” Augustine, On Forgiveness of sin and baptism, 43:27 (A.D. 412). At the end of the day, Brian has no authority whatsoever to say that these men all error'd some 1600+ years ago. Brian in affect, is preaching a new gospel.

[@theodore8178]

Here is a good one: And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole faith. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book One, Ch. 21)

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

Jesus said, at Mark 16:16, that both faith and Baptism were necessary for salvation. According to the Catholic Church and the Church Fathers, if a non-Christian came to be a believer, and had repented of his sins, but died before the actual Baptism, he could still be saved by "baptism of desire". This is how the repentant thief on the cross was saved.

[@medzuslovjansky3075]

TruthHasSpoken Sola scriptura doesn’t mean that we have no other authority other than the Holy Scriptures. Sola Scriptura means that the Bible is the highest authority that norms all other authorities. In arguments againsts sacramentalists, we cite the Church Fathers and Christian tradition.

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

@@medzuslovjansky3075 That's not what Luther taught. Luther taught that the scripture is the SOLE authority. If he had taught that it was the prime authority only, he would have called his new doctrine "prima scriptura" instead of "sola scriptura". The Church Fathers? In practice Protestant ministers almost never cited them. I grew up in the Methodist denomination and I had never heard of them, didn't know they existed. It was strongly implied that, apart from the scriptures, there are zero historical writings from early Christianity prior to Constantine.

[@medzuslovjansky3075]

George Penton Scripture isn’t our only authority. It’s the only authority we have that is infallible. The councils are authoritative, but not infallible. Tradition is authoritative but not infallible. Bishops are authoritative but not infallible.

[@admiralmurat2777]

The word synergy is in the Greek new Testament. Corinthians directly teaches that a justified and sanctified person can lose salvation by what he does.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I believe that a Christian can fall away.

[@MikeHammer1]

@@DrJordanBCooper : If so, then please explain John 6:36-40 (...all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing and I will raise him up on the last day) and Romans 8:26-35 (....whom He predestined, those he also called; and whom He called , those He also justified; and whom He justified; those He also glorified) or Romans 9:16-24 ( ....for who hath resisted His will). And for the record, I don't not accept the oft stated comment that Hebrews 6 teaches that one can lose their salvation. This is a complex passage and I cannot deal with it adequately in the context of a KZbin comment. God Bless!

[@Ben_G_Biegler]

Augustine must have been an Arminian

[@TheDroc1990]

Covenantal Justification would be Federal Vision not Presbyterianism.

[@mysticmouse7261]

I don't accept the existence of regeneration of any kind, baptismal or otherwise.

[@fennecbesixdouze1794]

You claimed that synergism/monergism have nothing to do with perseverance. Well, the synergism/monergism debate is related to perseverance in the Reformed view, because God's will is unchanging but man's will is fickle. To say that a regenerated person can resist grace and therefore fall away from salvation and the process of sanctification implies that the human plays a determining role alongside God in the act of sanctification. I can't "drop the ball" if God is carrying the ball. Given the Reformed view of God's will and God's nature, you can't have monergism without perseverance, and given the Reformed view of man's nature, you can't have synergism without losing the doctrine of effectual grace. "As little as man can contribute to his regeneration, faith, and justification, so little can he contribute to his sanctification. ... Believers hate sin, love God, and are obedient, and do good works. However, they do this neither on their own nor independently from God; rather, the Holy Spirit, having infused life in them at regeneration, maintains that life by His continual influence, stirs it up, activates it, and causes it to function in harmony with its spiritual nature." -- Brakel It is because grace is NOT synergistic that Reformed can believe in the perseverance of the saints. If they were synergistic in the sense that they depend on human will to even continue, then we would have to say that it can be lost, and indeed given the reformed view of human nature we would have to say that it is certain they would always be lost. Of course, this isn't to say the Reformed believer abandons the importance and the language of striving, or of the hard work and cooperation that man must make in the process of sanctification, and must necessarily make by virtue of their justification and regeneration. Those aspects of synergism are present in the Biblical language of sanctification, but not in a way that denies the monergistic aspects, which simply flow out of the Reformed view of God's supremacy and so are general across all means of grace, not just regeneration. Perhaps in the non-reformed view you can separate the synergism/monergism debate to say it only touches on justification, but you can't in the Reformed view. Also, making fun of others is always good sport, but I think he was referring to Arminianism as a set of doctrinal beliefs, not as an historical movement. He's clearly talking about the disagreement between Melanchthon and Luther regarding On the Bondage of the Will. Melanchthon abandoned a determinism/predestination view and took what is now most commonly defined as the Arminian view of free will, although to be fair I don't think Melanchthon took precisely the Arminian formulation that the act of grace frees the will from bondage, but only disagreed with Luther that the will was in a state of bondage when it is offered grace, which is fully compatible with Arminian view just not explicit fully in its formulation.

[@Mygoalwogel]

*Ezekiel 18:23; 33:11* God wants all wicked to repent and live. *Luke 7:30* God's βουλή (plan/purpose/resolve/counsel) for the Pharisees was to accept them. But they rejected this βουλή of God for themselves, by refusing John's baptism. *1 Timothy 4:10; 1 John 2:2* He is especially the Savior of believers. He remains the Savior of all people. This makes the labor of evangelism and the reproach of scoffers bearable. He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the church AND the world. *John 1:29; 3:16* The lamb of God takes away the sins of the world. God loved the world. *Luke 8:13* Jesus asserts that some really do *joyfully believe* the gospel for a while, and actually *fall away* through trials and temptations. *Luke 11:13* Jesus is emphatic that the Father gives the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks. *Romans 11:32* Who does God have mercy for? Everyone whom he consigned to disobedience! *1 Corinthians 8:11* It is possible to destroy the saving faith of a brother for whom Christ died. *Eph **4:30* The Ephesians were sealed for the day of redemption, yet Paul warned them that the possibility of grieving the Holy Spirit was a reality. *2 Peter 2:1* Christ bought even the heretics who deny Him and destroy themselves. *1 Tim 2:1-6* Christ died for all people and wants all people to be saved. Therefore, Paul commands us to *intercede* even for godless kings and rulers. *Hebrews 3:1-12* Even "holy brothers and sisters" can "turn away from the living God" with an "evil, unbelieving heart." *Hebrews 2:1, 12:25* The author and the audience could reject God's warning and not escape. *Hebrews 6:4-6* It is possible for one to be enlightened, taste the heavenly gift, have the Holy Spirit, tasted the goodness of the word of God, and then fall away. *Ephesians 3:3-6; Isaiah 45:19* As God has revealed his secret will in scripture, it is always to extend greater mercy. *1 John 2:2* Christ is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, not only for the church.

[@notfoolediknowthetruth3101]

Acts 10:47. Spirit comes first. End of conversation.

[@johnnywatson4914]

That's it. Its settled. You showed one verse taken from its full context and I am changing!

[@ArtVandelay-ImporterExporter]

It is a concern to say monergism can be broken by man. Being born again only to walk away makes mans will stronger than God's , seeming to undo monergism.

[@jasonc0065]

Margaret Palm , God doesn't want eternally worried minions who are saved only as long as they don't slip up. Why did God put the tree of life there? There can be no chance of falling away in order for his beloved sons to be truly saved.

[@nobody-rw9cc]

Entering communion with God is not a bondage to Gods will. Your freewill remains even in heaven where you can fall away from God all over again.

[@stansmith2771]

Adam did it

[@roylange2463]

6 minutes and he still has not started.

[@HonorTheLordGod]

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. One question, with the utmost respect : instead of investing so much time in these theological discussions, why aren't the theologians use their time reaching out to the lost, to the despair and depressed, the sinners and those that need our help?

[@Mygoalwogel]

Dr. Cooper explained in another video that bad theology was w big contributing factor to the clinical and debilitating anxiety of his youth.

[@OnBelayClimbOn]

As Reformed we do consider our children members of Christ's Church. But also require their own public profession of faith typically after the Catechism. So from a practical standpoint their considered believers until (in the rare case) the prove themselves otherwise and reject the Covenant of Grace. In such terrible instances baptism is for them a sign of God's judgement as it was for Pharoah and all those who rejected the Gospel in Noah's day. So thanks much for explaining the Lutheran view and linking it to perseverance and preservation of the saints. I have to stick with Heidelbeg Cat. 66 and following. Love you brother! Keep preaching the gospel!

[@DisabledPsychedelica]

Love this!

[@alanhales239]

Dr. Jordan Cooper, Nowhere does the Bible teach regeneration by water baptism. I can show you from the Bible that water baptism doesn't save (Regenerate) I can show you the Biblical Greek proof that water baptism doesn't Save (Regenerate ) . The Bible translators have misled people who believes water baptism saves. There are three Christians baptisms, Heb 6: 1-2. (1) The rebirth. 1 cor 12: 13. Titus 3: 5. (2)The baptism with the Holy Ghost. Matt 3: 11. Acts 1: 4---5. (3) Water baptism. The baptism in Rom 6: 3-6 Col 2: 12. Is the rebirth. NOT water but. To say it's water baptism, is to say water is greater than the Holy Spirit.

[@Mygoalwogel]

Matthew 3:15 Jesus insisted that even John's baptism was fitting for them to fulfill all righteousness. A servant is not greater than his Lord. Matthew 3:16 In baptism, the Father claims the Son. The Spirit rests on the Son. Matthew 21:25 Mere water baptism is a gift from Heaven. Matthew 28:19 Make disciples by baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and by teaching. Mark 1:4 Mere water baptism = repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Mark 16:16 *Baptized believers are saved, unbelievers condemned.* Luke 7:29 Even water baptism is a public declaration that God is righteous. Luke 7:30 *Rejecting even mere water baptism = rejecting God's purpose for you.* John 1:31, 33 John knew beforehand that God would reveal the Christ through baptism. Acts 2:38 *Repentance and baptism = forgiveness and the Spirit.* Acts 2:39-41 3000 bachelors, virgins, wives, husbands, and *children of all ages received forgiveness and the Spirit in baptism.* The smallest can't have decided to repent in a mature way, but they were not excluded. Acts 8 Many early church Bible readers saw a distinction between the Spirit's invisible gift of repentance/forgiveness and the Spirit's visible gift of leadership/ordination. Philip the Evangelist could baptize but not bestow spiritual authority. Only the apostles could do that. Acts 22:16 *Baptism washes away sins.* Romans 6:3, 4 *Baptism is death to sin, death with Christ, and newness of life in Christ.* 1 Corinthians 1 Baptism must not turn into hero worship, cliques, and factionalism. 1 Corinthians 12:22, 13 On the contrary, baptism is unity in the one Holy Spirit in Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:29 Even superstitious baptism declares the resurrection of the dead. Galatians 3:27, 28 Baptism clothes every member of the body of Christ in equality. Ephesians 3:5 There is one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all. Colossians 2:11 Baptism is a works-free death, a cutting off of the flesh. Colossians 2:12 Christ was buried. You were buried with Christ *in baptism.* God raised Christ from the dead. You believe God raised Christ from the dead. Therefore, God raised you with Christ *in baptism.* This is all *God’s powerful work.* Hebrews 6:1-2 *Baptism is a basic foundational teaching. You can't say you believe in Jesus while rejecting his basic teachings.* 1 Peter 3:20 Noah was saved by water, not from water. The flood waters washed away much evil. 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism now *saves you!* Baptism is assurance/demand of a good conscience before God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This verse summarizes all that has been said above.

[@alanhales239]

@@Mygoalwogel you are showing your Biblical ignorance. None of those scriptures in the gospels mention water baptism saves. As for Acts 2: 38, without giving the Greek theology, here's what Peter said and they way the people would have heard and understood Peter. "Repent for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, THEN you can be baptized in water". As for Acts 22: 16, if you knew the Bible, you would know that Paul was already saved, washed and cleansed before Ananias got to him, see Acts 9: 6--17. The Greek emphasis for, "Wash away sins" is on the "Calling on the name of the Lord". Not on baptism. Acts 9 tells us that Paul was saved for 3 day before he was baptized with the Holy Ghost, but he wasn't baptized in water at that time. This is how Acts 22: 16 reads in the Greek Bible text. "Rise and be back because your sins have ALREADY been washed away by calling on the name of the Lord".

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@alanhales239 Μετανοήσατε Καὶ βαπτισθήτω are both aorist imperative while λήμψεσθε is future indicative. ἀναβλέψῃς καὶ πλησθῇς are both aorist subjunctive and corresponds rather strikingly to ἀνέβλεψέν and ἐβαπτίσθη, which are both aorist indicative. In the same way, βάπτισαι καὶ ἀπόλουσαι are once again aorist imperative. However, you argue that the participle ἐπικαλεσάμενος has priority, rather than being simultaneous with the imperatives according to the usual sense of the middle voice. The grammar simply doesn't inform this distinction, but I checked all of the commentaries available on Bible Hub. Even sacramentarians like Matthew Henry and Barnes' notes agree that the actions are simultaneous. As to your last claim, why should being without sight, food, or water imply that he was saved? Barnes' notes and Clarke's commentary say this implies anxiety despair at overwhelming sin, not faith. He certainly was not filled with the Holy Spirit until after 9:17. Is there some compelling reason to think differently?

[@alanhales239]

@@Mygoalwogel read my reply to you, and stop twisting the Biblical truths. If you knew the Bible (Which you don't). You would know that Paul was saved in Acts 9: 6. And Ananias knew it, because he called Saul, "Brother Saul", v17. Saul, (Paul) was baptized with the Holy Ghost, (v17). A person can't be baptized with the Holy Ghost unless they are saved. But Saul waste baptized in water at that time. The Gentiles in Acts 10 were saved and baptized with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, but they weren't baptized in water at that time. The disciples in Acts 19 were Saul, they could have been saved for up to twenty years, but they weren't baptized with the Christian Baptism until they met Paul. The Apostles and disciples of Jesus were baptized in water, but that didn't saved them, they weren't saved until after Jesus rose from the dead. All these scriptures, plus the Biblical Greek proves that water baptism doesn't save.

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@alanhales239 You've hit on a miscommunication that probably happens between Christians who focus on symbols and Christians who focus more literally. I can admit that it's as much our fault as theirs. Papists, Nikonites, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, Anglicans and Lutherans have always taught that faith and the Holy Spirit can certainly come both before and after baptism. The two combined are called "confirmation" when faith is confessed and baptism is obtained. But true faith cannot exist in one who refuses to be baptized because they demonstrate that they do not believe what the Bible says about baptism. Cornelius' household and the Ephesians did obtain hearing of the true Gospel, faith, the Holy Spirit, and baptism. No one tried to separate any of these Means of Grace until the Anabaptists. You seem not to entertain my explanation of the Koine in the verses you cited. Do you have evidence that your reading is the correct one? Ananias saying "Brother Saul" indicates that Jesus had told him Saul's future. In addition ot Barne's and Clarke's, I'd add that Chrysostom points out the similarity between unsaved Paul and Elymas. Both are blinded by God's wrath. Both have unquestionable proof of Christ. But Paul is able to come to faith because of Ananias' proclamation of forgiveness. Even symbol protestants don't say people can have faith without hearing the Gospel. In any case, one version of the even doesn't contradict the other, "Brother," regardless of your interpretation, doesn't negate "wash away your sins." It also doesn't negate "washing of water and the word," "saving baptism (σῴζει βάπτισμα), "fitting to fulfill all righteousness," "baptized into Christ Jesus","in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body," "baptized into Christ have put on Christ," "in baptism you were also raised with him through faith."

[@BachClarinet]

Great take on that 1 Corinthians passage regarding the divisions. Thanks, Rev!

[@aaroncarlson3127]

cool

[@MoonPhaze5]

First of all, water baptism for the remission of sins was BEFORE Jesus was glorified (Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38). After that, we are baptized of the SPIRIT for the remission of sins, through faith in Christ: ACTS 10:43; ROMANS 3:25; HEBREWS 9:22, 10:18. If the command to the apostles to water baptize (Matt. 28:19) was meant for all believers, then most of us are in disobedience, and going to Hell, having never baptized ANYONE. What I'm saying is that many of you who preach water baptism, fail to recognise that the command was TO DO the water baptizing. But you turn it around into a command to BE water baptized. And not only that, but NOW water baptism is no longer relevant to salvation. We are BAPTIZED BY THE SPIRIT: 1CORINTHIANS 12:13. And you all should be happy to have that REST in Christ.

[@daric_]

Dispensationalist?

[@hunternge8091]

Mellomoon Haze, it is interesting that you quote Acts 10:43, did you finish the chapter? If water baptism was irrelevant, why would Peter command Cornelius' & his family be baptized after they had already received the Holy Spirit?

[@tylerkroenke7066]

MoonPhaze5 Ephesians 4 says there is one baptism. Water baptism is Spiritual Baptism.

[@sreed7637]

Jesus himself proved that baptism wasn't necessary beloved children (although baptism shows your dedication to the Lord you should not worry if you dont have it) see Luke 23:39-43 One of the criminals who hung there heaped abuse on Him. “Are You not the Christ?” he said. “Save Yourself and us!” But the other one rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same judgment? We are punished justly, for we are receiving what our actions deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” and Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.[Jesus' own words are proof]” also let us not forget Exodus 33:19 and the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion and Roman's 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

[@Mygoalwogel]

Matthew 3:15 Jesus insisted that even John's baptism was fitting for them to fulfill all righteousness. A servant is not greater than his Lord. Matthew 3:16 In baptism, the Father claims the Son. The Spirit rests on the Son. Matthew 21:25 Mere water baptism is a gift from Heaven. Matthew 28:19 Make disciples by baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and by teaching. Mark 1:4 Mere water baptism = repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Mark 16:16 *Baptized believers are saved, unbelievers condemned.* Luke 7:29 Even water baptism is a public declaration that God is righteous. Luke 7:30 *Rejecting even mere water baptism = rejecting God's purpose for you.* John 1:31, 33 John knew beforehand that God would reveal the Christ through baptism. Acts 2:38 *Repentance and baptism = forgiveness and the Spirit.* Acts 2:39-41 3000 bachelors, virgins, wives, husbands, and *children of all ages received forgiveness and the Spirit in baptism.* The smallest can't have decided to repent in a mature way, but they were not excluded. Acts 8 Many early church Bible readers saw a distinction between the Spirit's invisible gift of repentance/forgiveness and the Spirit's visible gift of leadership/ordination. Philip the Evangelist could baptize but not bestow spiritual authority. Only the apostles could do that. Acts 22:16 *Baptism washes away sins.* Romans 6:3, 4 *Baptism is death to sin, death with Christ, and newness of life in Christ.* 1 Corinthians 1 Baptism must not turn into hero worship, cliques, and factionalism. 1 Corinthians 12:22, 13 On the contrary, baptism is unity in the one Holy Spirit in Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:29 Even superstitious baptism declares the resurrection of the dead. Galatians 3:27, 28 Baptism clothes every member of the body of Christ in equality. Ephesians 3:5 There is one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all. Colossians 2:11 Baptism is a works-free death, a cutting off of the flesh. Colossians 2:12 Christ was buried. You were buried with Christ *in baptism.* God raised Christ from the dead. You believe God raised Christ from the dead. Therefore, God raised you with Christ *in baptism.* This is all *God’s powerful work.* Hebrews 6:1-2 *Baptism is a basic foundational teaching. You can't say you believe in Jesus while rejecting his basic teachings.* 1 Peter 3:20 Noah was saved by water, not from water. The flood waters washed away much evil. 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism now *saves you!* Baptism is assurance/demand of a good conscience before God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This verse summarizes all that has been said above.

[@jchrist4us]

Schwertley!!!

[@julianschmidt4686]

How can monergism be broken by man? It's either monergism or synergism. Lutherans try to do monergism without man losing his free will - this doesn't work at all.

[@tylerkroenke7066]

Julian Schmidt Baptism is God's work, not Man's.

[@lorenzomurrone2430]

Because there's a difference between God's monergism in baptismal regeneration and the Christian's path in life. I think a good metaphor, based on Rom. 6.1-14, is that a prisoner cannot set himself free, but a free man can decide to become a prisoner.

[@Nnamwerd]

Yeah, that's my problem with most of Protestantism. I have yet to find a Church Father who was a monergist.

[@flashhog01]

This is one of the most comically ignorant statements I've ever read: "Lutherans try to do monergism without man losing his free will".

[@mikemanners1069]

We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit - not by H20.

[@rogerterry6220]

The Holy Spirit does not work apart from means! He uses water connected with God's word!

[@MikeHammer1]

@@rogerterry6220: Passages in the Bible such as Acts 10:44-48 clearly show that the Holy Spirit is received prior to baptism. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit marks the point of regeneration (i.e., salvation - see also 1 Cor. 12:3), baptism is an act of obedience that follows, sometimes immediately and sometimes at a later point in time. This is in keeping with the heart of stone being replaced with a heart of flesh, which is a work of God alone. Until we are regenerated, we are incapable of true obedience.

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

@@MikeHammer1 For adults, a candidate for Baptism is regenerated and filled with the Holy Spirit as soon as he believes and repents, if he has the intention of receiving the sacramental Baptism, and if he has perfect contrition for sin (sorry for sin mostly because sin offends God, as opposed to imperfect contrition, when one is sorry for sin mostly from fear of God's punishments in this life and in the next) (for the sacramentally baptized, imperfect contrition is good enough). So teaches our Holy Mother the Catholic Church.

[@Liminalplace1]

Gee, im going to watch this. Having liked his other videos its probably good to watch something I ll probably greatly disagree with. Im an long time Anglican not a Lutheran.. of charismatic tradition..now attending an Assemblies of God... and having read Dr.Gordon Fee"s and James Dunn's critiques of baptismal regeneration..and having critiqued Church fathers in debates with Catholics..because im a misssionary to Philipines. So lets see what Dr.Cooperr says and what hes relying upon.

[@TheDroc1990]

A Mighty Fortress Is Our God. But a creature can resist the effectual salvific working of His creator?

[@TheDroc1990]

@Caleb Daniel yeah im not a Calvinist anymore. I like discovering my old stupid comments.

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@TheDroc1990 Where'd you end up?

[@cooperthatguy1271]

@@MygoalwogelEastern Orthodox from the profile picture lol.

[@roylange2463]

"means of grace" means works. Works nullify grace. Salvation is by GRACE ALONE 100.00000000000000GOOGLEPLEX% and MERCY 100.00000000000000000000GOOGLEPLEX% Being born of God comes before believing and receiving Christ (John 1:12,13 1. John 5:1) and before seeing and entering the kingdom of God (John 3)

[@coldfusionmusical]

Roy Lange Have you read this? James 2:14-24 14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”-but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? 17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. 18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” 19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless? 21 Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when He offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. 23 And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. 24 So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. James 2 :24 Faith itself is an action, not talk only. You can't say you have faith and just sit there and do nothing. Yes, we're saved by grace through faith (without earning it) but good work is the fruit from that grace. Obeying is work as well, like Abraham, it requires effort, God didn't make us robots but thinking human who have free choice. Does that mean that by acting upon that grace by doing good works (through effort) nullifies grace?

[@artietexas]

The sacraments are not the works of man but the work of God, that is to say, pure grace.

[@cooperthatguy1271]

You believe in means of grace. The word of God is a means of grace. You cannot know God in any necessary way without his word. And you don’t give the word to yourself, nor are you baptized by yourself (or anyone for that matter) other than Jesus.

[@oldglory6922]

It is so sad that I have never heard a Church of Christ member preach the gospel. The gospel is not “be baptised” but that “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their sins against them”. There simply is no power in what you say because you don’t preach the gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation for those who believe. You gloss over the power of God when you say “of course Christ conquered death, sin and hell through His death, burial, and resurrection” as if that is secondary because you simply can not see beyond the rim of your baptism lens. It prevents you from “growing in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ” because you are stuck at the starting block in the race. Thus I am afraid that you are causing many to never see the finish line because they

[@johnnywatson4914]

You obviously do not understand how Lutherans understand baptism. Watch some more of Dr. Cooper's videos.

[@glennlanham6309]

Another doctrine you have borrowed from Catholicism my friend....

[@frankmeintjes5012]

I agree. The Reformation was not complete in the days of Luther. It was like a cookie that is half baked. Interesting that the Pope is inviting all of these "reformed denominations" to return back to the "Mother church" That is if they had kept the "Sacrament of the holy baptism" So I guess if you are Baptised by full immersion in the Name of the LORD JESUS CHRIST there is no place for you in the Mother church. Thank God!

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

@@frankmeintjes5012 A Baptism, to be valid, must be done in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus (Matthew 28:19). Any amount of water is okay so long as some of it freely passes over the candidate's head. Since Jesus is the Son of God a Baptism in the name of the Father, THE SON, and the Holy Spirit IS a Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. This is the teaching of our Holy Mother the Catholic Church. Any opinion to the contrary is just that---human opinion.

[@frankmeintjes5012]

@@GeorgePenton-np9rh Would you agree with me that when studying any subject in the Word of God that one should use ALL SCRIPTURE concerning that subject? That using only one scripture will be ignoring the context in how one should be able to understand the subject being studied? That this method of using one text to build doctrine is usually used by cults?

[@GeorgePenton-np9rh]

@@frankmeintjes5012 I disagree with your whole approach, Frank. Your question assumes that each individual believer is supposed to read the Scripture, be his own pope, and come up with his own opinion as to what Scripture means. This is totally wrong. It is the teachingbauthority of tge Catholic Church that is supposed to teach us. 1 Timothy 3:15 says the Church is the pillar and ground of truth. See also Proverbs 3:5, 2 Peter 1:20, and Acts 8:31. Jesus did not leave us orphans. He left us our Holy Mother the Catholic Church.

[@frankmeintjes5012]

@@GeorgePenton-np9rh Yes I understand your approach. That is why we are world apart. Yes He gave us the Holy Spirit of the Godhead that will teach and guide us in all Truth. At the end of the day we have to stand alone before the judgement seat of Christ and give account of the works we had done in the flesh and in the Spirit. The Mother church cannot stand in my place . I am personally responsible for my own spiritual education and moral development. The interpretation of the Mother Church on certain doctrines are surely questionable . I speak to many Catholics and they don't agree with many of the fundamental doctrines the church teaches. This is the reality. They will not leave the church because of fear of being excommunicated . Do I have to say anything more?

[@boeellison2492]

Heresy

[@johnnywatson4914]

Nope

[@boeellison2492]

@@johnnywatson4914 no? You think a child is regenerate after being baptized? I’ve never heard of that brother... accept in false religious groups I guess

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@boeellison2492 Matthew 3:15 Jesus insisted that even John's baptism was fitting for them to fulfill all righteousness. A servant is not greater than his Lord. Matthew 3:16 In baptism, the Father claims the Son. The Spirit rests on the Son. Matthew 21:25 Mere water baptism is a gift from Heaven. Matthew 28:19 Make disciples by baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and by teaching. Mark 1:4 Mere water baptism = repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Mark 16:16 *Baptized believers are saved, unbelievers condemned.* Luke 7:29 Even water baptism is a public declaration that God is righteous. Luke 7:30 *Rejecting even mere water baptism = rejecting God's purpose for you.* John 1:31, 33 John knew beforehand that God would reveal the Christ through baptism. Acts 2:38 *Repentance and baptism = forgiveness and the Spirit.* Acts 2:39-41 3000 bachelors, virgins, wives, husbands, and *children of all ages received forgiveness and the Spirit in baptism.* The smallest can't have decided to repent in a mature way, but they were not excluded. Acts 8 Many early church Bible readers saw a distinction between the Spirit's invisible gift of repentance/forgiveness and the Spirit's visible gift of leadership/ordination. Philip the Evangelist could baptize but not bestow spiritual authority. Only the apostles could do that. Acts 22:16 *Baptism washes away sins.* Romans 6:3, 4 *Baptism is death to sin, death with Christ, and newness of life in Christ.* 1 Corinthians 1 Baptism must not turn into hero worship, cliques, and factionalism. 1 Corinthians 12:22, 13 On the contrary, baptism is unity in the one Holy Spirit in Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:29 Even superstitious baptism declares the resurrection of the dead. Galatians 3:27, 28 Baptism clothes every member of the body of Christ in equality. Ephesians 3:5 There is one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all. Colossians 2:11 Baptism is a works-free death, a cutting off of the flesh. Colossians 2:12 Christ was buried. You were buried with Christ *in baptism.* God raised Christ from the dead. You believe God raised Christ from the dead. Therefore, God raised you with Christ *in baptism.* This is all *God’s powerful work.* Hebrews 6:1-2 *Baptism is a basic foundational teaching. You can't say you believe in Jesus while rejecting his basic teachings.* 1 Peter 3:20 Noah was saved by water, not from water. The flood waters washed away much evil. 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism now *saves you!* Baptism is assurance/demand of a good conscience before God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This verse summarizes all that has been said above.

[@boeellison2492]

@@Mygoalwogel Good job quoting scripture! A baby is not regenerate when it is baptized... period end of story

[@Mygoalwogel]

@@boeellison2492 _Why do Christians baptize?_ [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” Mark 16:15-16 _Why do Christians baptize infants?_ Infants are included in “the whole creation.” _But we are only to baptize “whoever believes”! Can infants believe?_ Indeed, they can. John the Baptist had and demonstrated faith from his mother’s womb.“And of the Holy Spirit he shall be filled even from the womb of his mother. ... And it happened that as [Elizabeth] heard Mary’s greeting, the child leapt in her womb.” Luke 1:15, 41. A psalmist had faith from birth. “For You are my hope, O Lord GOD; You are my trust from my youth. I have *relied upon you from my birth;* You are He who took me out of my mother’s womb.” Psalm 71:5-6. Timothy had faith in the Gospel from infancy. “From infancy you have known the holy writings.” 2 Timothy 3:15. David had faith from birth. “You have made me to trust while on the breasts of my mother. I have relied on you since birth; from the time I came out of my mother’s womb you have been my God.” Psalm 22:9. David and Jesus do not find it incredible that nursing infants can praise God in faith. “And Jesus said to them, “Yes. Have you never read,‘ Out of the mouth of babies and nursing infants You have perfected praise’?” Matthew 21:16. _But surely those infants were special cases. How can infants believe today?_ Jesus commands us not to hinder those who wish to bring their infants to him. In fact, he calls them to himself, and says not that they are brought, but that they come to him. “Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. And when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to himself, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.’ And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.” Mt 19:13; Lk 18:15-17; Mk 10:16 _But Jesus did not baptize the children. He put his hands on them and held them. Is that the same?_ “For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.” 1 Corinthians 12:15. There is noway to be closer to Jesus than this! _But in addition to faith, the Bible nearly always connects baptism to repentance. Can children repent?_ No one can repent without the Holy Spirit. No one can have the Holy Spirit without repentance. “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38. No one can enter the Kingdom without repentance. "The Kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15. Yet children certainly can receive the Holy Spirit and enter the Kingdom, as shown above.

[@MoonPhaze5]

You know how corrupt evil Catholicism is, what makes you think it would contain one area of truth? They are in full disobedience unto the LORD in every aspect, along with their fruitless works of water baptism, which denies the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and so are you believing in salvation by WATER baptism. The Holy Spirit does not work through water baptism, he works through FAITH.

[@ryanaugust]

Mellomoon Haze Is the Trinity false?

[@flashhog01]

Mellomoon Haze, I must only assume you reject the incarnation, the Trinity, the return of Jesus and you must accept gay marriage, homosexuality, abortion as a good thing in God’s eyes since you believe Rome contains no area of truth. I urge you to rethink your blind bigotry toward Rome and treat issues in a more balanced manner.

[@coldfusionmusical]

Mellomoon Haze Why are you so hateful? Where is your love? You hate Catholicism what you believe is Catholicism, not because you really understand what it really teaches. Consider these: John 3:3-5 [3]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [4]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [5]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 1 Peter 3:20-21 [20]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. [21]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ Now you implied you didn't believe in salvation of the water baptism but the Bible says otherwise, looks like you're the disobedient one.

[@danephillips]

Yes and they think they can be good enough.They think purgatory is how one is cleaned of sin . Totally lost .I am a former catholic now saved by faith in Jesus not a church .1 john 1 8 -10 Jesus cleanjse of sin

[@danephillips]

@@EiderDuckson Sadly that the opposite of truth . The sadder thing is your going to hell in that catholic belief . The utter nonsense of needing purgatory. Catholics have a false Jesus that is a failure on the cross . The biblical Jesus completely destroys all sin in one who ask Him ( not priest ) Hebrews 10 read it . Jesus makes one perfect ! Jesus on the cross did everything . Jesus cleanse from sin . Belong to a church will not save you from hell . And when you are burning in the fire it will be hell not the mythical Catholics place of purgatory. If you would only trust God’s only word the Bible . Jesus cleanse one of all sin and unrighteousness when they ask Jesus ( no one else) to forgive their sins . 1 John 1 Jesus forgive sin and cleanse from a unrighteousness . But sadly you love a lie of Catholicism more . Lastly I was raised Catholic I know the damnable beliefs . What every catholic should know but does not know kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2W6g4OsZtqgkKs

[@ameliacoburn4787]

It IS a symbol Fool! You love your traditions more than Scripture. JESUS saves NOT baptism.

[@apologiaromana4123]

How do you think Jesus saved you? Through baptism?

[@Dilley_G45]

Its not either or. By traditions you mean the 2000 years of traditional Christianity? But of course the 20th century "churches" know everything better. No...they have a different Jesus. 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism now saves you.