A different way to visualize rhythm - John Varney

[@s3blastois3]

There needs to be an app where you can make beats with that circle he mentioned.

[@johnvarney3750]

+Sebass I'm working with a developer on it currently.

[@morisan42]

+John Varney would love to hear some updates on that

[@josephkurth2300]

+Sebass this is essentially the way that bars are visualized in the Session View of Ableton Live 9.

[@aZnLy96]

+John Varney looking forward to it!

[@mrpizzanipples]

+Sebass It's called Figure!

[@JloBroOFFICIAL]

it would be impossible to write an entire song this way because you couldnt write anything longer than 1 bar. but just for giving people a new way to imagine how it works, this video is awesome.

[@johnvarney3750]

+James Logan Often a piece has a basic underlying rhythm, which you experiment with using the wheel and then set. If you want to change the rhythm in a different section you just do a new wheel. It can also be used to get a feel for how interacting rhythms ion a piece work together.

[@xanri7673]

+James Logan If you make the circle bigger you can essentially add bars

[@xanri7673]

+Matt Fellenz You would just have to repeat after a certain amount of time

[@JloBroOFFICIAL]

I hope you're joking dude *****

[@simonenoli4418]

+MomoTheBellyDancer what would be the point in writing it in a circle if it loops the whole song then?

[@mayank_b]

Can we take some time to appreciate the animation and the quality knowledge provided in this video.

[@johnvarney3750]

Thank you so much!

[@midnitescott]

@@johnvarney3750 thank you. I like how you showed the effects of the rotations on the wheel. Plus, great music knowledge of world rhythms!

[@jordanjohnsondrums]

That’s what I was doing while watching the video

[@Diarmadhim]

Once others recognize that this isn't being proposed as a "better" way to view rhythm, it can very easily excel as an educational tool for those of us that simply flounder when presented with the standard notation. As with all things "classical education," we need to recognize that it is not inherently the most effective way to teach things, but is instead the one that has been utilized the longest. Thank you for sharing.

[@johnvarney3750]

+Jacob Curry Thank you Jacob. You've got the picture.

[@robf00fbug19]

@@johnvarney3750 But *you* somehow missed it. The REASON musical notation has remained largely unchanged is because it is simple and it works. You've drawn an image which can be used for ONE measure and is incapable of doing much else. Don't believe me? Show us how you write your 7-stroke rolls (open, closed, then open again). Or, show us the Purdie Shuffle; It can be approximated pretty well on a staff. Your method would require a compass, protractor, and some serious voodoo to illustrate it (or more importantly to *re-create* it). This is, after all, why musical notation exists. I love innovation, but it has to serve a purpose AND be an improvement. Sadly, this does/is neither. But, hey... cool pictures, bro.

[@johnvarney3750]

@@robf00fbug19 That's not what it's for. It's to show how underlying elements in layered cyclic rhythms work, as in salsa, for example, and to show how you can interrelate different rhythms, such as chaconne and joropo, by their cyclic similarities. At no point does it propose itself as a replacement for western standard notation.

[@AkashSingh-ku6yc]

In Indian classical music, rhytm (taala) is traditionally visualized as cyclic!

[@yash1152]

and unsurprisingly, this TED video doesnt mention that. Coincidence? I think not! It's on purpose imo.

[@ems7623]

I had heard this before. Interesting. It's amazing how much of Indian culture leans towards cyclical conceptions ... Of time, meter, the cosmos, life, the gods (in Hinduism) ...

[@bobfrog4836]

That's exactly what I thought when I started watching this and was kind of surprised they didn't mention it.

[@AlbertBalbastreMorte]

I'm started to figure why trance is so popular in Goa.

[@mridhulml9238]

@@AlbertBalbastreMorte lol thats easy..cause of all the people on acid! Trance hits different when you're high

[@dylanlabon9667]

Rhythm is what I struggle with the most as a musician and composer. I tend to favor simple rhythms because I have a hard time internalizing the beat. I don't think this video solved all of my rhythmic issues, but I do think it generally gave me a better understanding of rhythm. I really appreciate this different perspective you shared with us.

[@zane003]

There is something internal to how the brain processes sounds that makes this difficult for me too, and I have tried to listen to even beats by themselves. If the main beat marks repeating patterns for the brain to synchronize with, then having issues syncing with it is what causes the problem for me. I feel like my brain is able to speed-up and slow-down more easily while thinking, and when this happens during strumming the guitar (such as when thinking about something while playing) I usually strum and tap my foot too early and mess up the rhythm. An MRI scan will likely show synchronized signal swirls (cutting edge discoveries are currently being made there). In summary: I think this is a quirky think in the brain similar to how dyslexic people use a different part to read which is better at things but worse at others.

[@christophersmith4560]

I think I agree with you and a lot of people have that problem. Further, The graphics in this video do not synchronize very well with what's being described, come up thus causing a little bit of a disconnect in the explanation.

[@theresak5906]

I dance flamenco and every time we study a new flamenco rhythm, our teacher uses a circle to make it more clear where the beats are. It definitely makes the process of understanding rhythms easier.

[@StephenTack]

I like this way of visualizing rhythms...I wish there were a drum machine app designed like this.

[@camtothemax]

Me too!

[@camtothemax]

***** Too bad it's not for Android

[@StephenTack]

Cool... Though no Android love 😒... And my iPad 2 is aggravatingly slow since iOS8.

[@TVjoakim]

If someone made an app like that for android i would buy the shit out of it!

[@johnvarney3750]

Thanks for the comments - there's also a theoretical component that goes with this that was a bit too complex for this brief format. I'm hoping to get together with a programmer to develop a rhythm- wheel app that would incorporate this.

[@kingrosalani]

The circle is a very interesting way to think of rhythm. Sort of like a physical metronome with your rhythms written on it

[@EmdrGreg]

This is WONDERFUL.

[@jonathangilliam875]

+Greg Scott Absolutely. Shame it's so unknown.

[@EmdrGreg]

***** Agreed.

[@johnvarney3750]

+Greg Scott I agree too, but it's starting to accelerate!

[@vari1535]

oops i accidentally ruined your 666 likes

[@robf00fbug19]

Looking forward to seeing your score of literally ANY music. (If you've only got one measure worth of music this idea isn't absolutely terrible, but it still kinda is.)

[@AnubisXII]

Wow. I can remember a long time ago when I first started to play. I was jamming with this dude who didn't have a feel for the groove. He would carry his fills two or three 16ths past the count and restart at the beginning of the bar. Turn a 4/4 groove into 5/4 and 9/8 and 4/4, all at random times. But anyway I was trying to think of a way to explain to this dude (without knowing a damn thing about music and bars and timekeeping, etc...), that his fills were extending past the count, and the only way I could think in a way that made me understand what was happening in a way that I could explain to him was using this circular pattern. Its okay to fill past the 12, but when you come back to the groove, you gotta slide in as if the groove never left. Im confusing myself trying to think about how I explained it to him, but I know what I was talking about. Im sure we were really high at the time, so Im sure it made total sense.

[@felicialally5703]

i don't know that this will help me in life, but it is nice to know and appreciate that some people's brains work differently, and they see the world in a different way. that in itself is beautiful.

[@ragamuffinukes2779]

40 yrs I've been dabbling in music with no inherent rhythm; when going beyond 2-beat toe tapping, i had 2 large left feet! ...but, i continue to strive to learn how to let go & let the beat in... and in 5 minutes you brought it all home... 😂😍🎵🎶 thank you! going to watch the entire lesson...

[@sophiejones7727]

wish I'd learned this when I was six and attempting to play the violin. rhythms confused me for the longest time, and all my teacher could do was say "count it out". so helpful...

[@kambizdara6678]

a very nice and important thing about the rhythm in nature is that they are almost always irregularly regular. And I think this makes nature so special and unique. Thank you for the video.

[@pmyou2]

I am impressed. A beautiful visualization, and one I have never encountered before. Thanks!

[@yacovsimons393]

Amazing. I love small intuitive visual geometric condensed simplified lessons that contain a lot of potential. This is my style of learning.

[@Jay-pr5kn]

I've always done the same where I visualize rhythm back and forth, except it's so much easier than what's shown here. You just move back and forth according to the downbeats and fill in the in-betweens with divisions. The way they show here with the circular visuals are more suitable for polyrhythm, I would say.

[@johnvarney3750]

In fact, that's what it's designed for.

[@isabellemarien5335]

Je n'avais jamais eu un cours pédagogique aussi génial que celui ci bravo!

[@LaCrisArts]

Wow! This reminded me of one time that I saw a street artist with some bottles and a train. The bottles where set in the track and as the train was passing by, the music was played. It was beautiful to see the rhtyhm and how the space between the bottles in the circle could anticipate if a fast tempo was coming or a slow... well, anyway! Thank you for doing this :)

[@pesti_ja1]

Superb video. For someone who knows nothing about music, like me, that explained so much. Easy to understand and intuitive. Thanks.

[@howser1961]

Brilliant - a true insight and a wonderful, magical, deeper understanding of the realm of rhythm. Outstanding!!!

[@tastelesstouch]

As a producer of electronic music this kind of thinking comes naturally because you are usually dealing with a loop and triggering sounds throughout the loop. I thought it was really interesting how rotating the starting point of the wheel leads to different time signatures.

[@blizzard_the_seal9863]

rlly old comment but SAME i was like wondering, do people NOT think like this??? but yeah i forgot that its cause i deal with loops so much 😭

[@drrodopszin]

Excellent idea! If you add "grid-lines" you can also now track the differences of the same beats: if you overlap the Persian "version" of Chacarera you will hear the beats don't fall exactly on the same moment. Those nuances, those delays and early arrivals are very important to the style (and they are impossible to mark prettily in sheet music).

[@johnvarney3750]

Yes. This presents simplifications of the rhythms so that the inter-relationships can be seen more easily.

[@mrbigg151]

I've been in music for decades and never thought of it like this. Very interesting concept

[@johnvarney3750]

It took me over a decade to work it out!

[@genisay]

Not only is this video very interesting, but I just thought how great of a reference it would be for constructing music cores for songs with different cultural influences, so I'm totally holding onto this one.

[@johnvarney3750]

That's part of its strength - this video only takes it up to 8 beats, but I do workshops up to 16, and then beyond. It helps to empower musicians to create their own rhythms.

[@genisay]

Nice. I'm going to have to look more into this method. I could very well use it for constructing music through some of the programs I have, as usually, the hardest part for me is thinking up the underlying structure to start something. Most of what I've done in the past was just playing around until I got something I liked....but that was time consuming, and took a /lot/ of trail and error, and ended up being overly repetitive with out really having a good backbone.

[@Leotique]

what cores ? there aren't many possibility to fill those gaps, and most of the music was inspired by the same source, also human brains always seek for patterns and structures. so it please us when a song is 4/4 or at least triole.

[@yuyiya]

Oh, come on! Sure, there are plenty of common patterns we all know and love, but it doesn't take a lot of ingenuity to make a new rhythm. Look at +John Varney's answer above - he does workshops using up to 16 beats. There are exactly 2^16 different patterns of "present" or "absent" beats, which is 65 536 of them - and that's considering only two different levels of stress on the beats. The video already uses four different levels: main, secondary, off and none; and in 16 beats, that makes a total of 4^16 = 4 294 967 296 different possible patterns - that's right, over 4 billion! Bet you can find something new and interesting in there :-) .

[@PicaQ]

Oh my goodness, I love the graphic design in this video animation, and the content was very well presented!

[@johnvarney3750]

Yes, I love the way they did the graphics, too.

[@FatCandyProduction]

As a drummer I actually found this to be very confusing xD

[@oshgnacknak72]

I agree. Like how can we encode a change of the beat when the song progresses?

[@robf00fbug19]

@@oshgnacknak72 You *can't* with this abysmal idea.

[@Chris01114]

I pefer sightreading much more over using a system like this

[@AWMK101]

Oshgnacknak A second circle :0

[@Duy22]

@@oshgnacknak72 You could draw a circle for each different pattern and place them sequencially. To know when to change patterns, you could associate a number to each circle which would represent the how many times this pattern needs to be repeated before playing the next one.

[@dharmendrathacker165]

Ohhhhhh Voooooowww ...! So interesting, so amazing, so informative.. !!! Thank you & your team for scripting, writing, recording and sharing this wonderful Work.! 👍 God bless you all 🙏👍👌 so much 🙏👍👌

[@wolvinification]

As a non music nerd who knows nothing about beats and rhythms, , the comparison of different patterns was mind blowing

[@johnvarney3750]

That's part of the idea - to give access to these concepts to anyone.

[@angelhelp]

You're confusing beats with rhythm. Beats do not change except in tempo. Rhythm is what changes. It may or may not serve to emphasize beats.

[@story_teller4268]

Could you pls explain it further for me

[@angelhelp]

@@story_teller4268 Look up the difference between BEAT and RHYTHM. Use more than one music dictionary to learn the difference. Failing that, enlist the assistance of a percussionist. This column is not the place for such explanations, however... Beats are subdivisions of a measure (which is also known as a bar). The top number of the time signature of a piece of music tells you how many beats are in a measure, e.g. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. The bottom number of the time signature tells you what note or rest represents a single beat. If the bottom number is a 2, then a half note or rest represents one beat. If the bottom number is a 4, then a quarter note or rest represents one beat. If the bottom number is 8, then an eighth note or rest represents one beat. Let's say that the time signature is 3 / 4, meaning 3 is the top number and 4 is the bottom. There would be 3 beats in any given measure in the music and those beats would be presented in terms of quarters. This means that any measure could have 3 quarter notes, 3 quarter rests, or a combination of notes and rests that added up numerically to 3/4. You could, for instance, use a half note followed by 2 eighth notes to make a measure of music in 3/4. No matter what combination of notes and rests comprise each measure, there would still have to be only 3 beats per measure. That is dictated by the time signature and cannot be changed unless the time signature itself is changed. No matter how rapidly or slowly the music is performed (this is called tempo), the music written in 3/4 time will still have 3 beats per measure, represented in terms of 3 quarter notes or rests or whatever other notes and rests add up to 3/4. Using note and rest values other than quarters in this example means that you must be careful of your math, but it'd be perfectly acceptable, for instance, to write everything in terms of sixteenth notes and rests, provided you didn't exceed 12 (since 12/16 = 3/4). There are special cases where music may appear to have an incorrect number of beats either at the beginning or at the end; the usual reason for this is the existence of an anacrusis (pickup), and the "incomplete" first and last bars are added together to make the correct number of beats as dictated by the time signature.

[@markielinhart]

Brilliant❗️as a beginner drummer I’m finding horizontal notations hard to STAY AHEAD of but the circle concept makes so much sense especially with regard to an uninterrupted flow from the instruments 👏🇦🇺✌️

[@samanthawong7857]

This truly opened my mind to thinking out of the box

[@bornto_lead6957]

Now you think in the circle

[@Sreenivaslingala]

Explaining Rhythm and Polyrhythm in a beautiful way and very simple method.. Great John Varney.

[@ScatheMinx]

Thank you! I discovered and traveled around the world with visualized beats in 5 minutes.

[@arunsiva6243]

Amazing; this truly demystified a big component of music to me. I have been trying to mathematically understand music (oh people say it cant' be done..but was wondering where the feel-good feeling is coming from) and this wheel approach to rhythm is truly novel and helped me much.

[@Stephanie-Hatziioannou]

Music is mathematics!

[@cameronkellerpiano]

I like the visualization of rhythm as a circle. It is somehow more intuitive than an endless chain of bar lines. It's interesting how different cultures around the world share similar rhythmic patterns, too. I'd like to see a video about Eastern pitches (quarter steps, ect.) vs. the western 12 note scale.

[@johnvarney3750]

That's interesting. I play a lot of Middle eastern music and they don't use quarter steps - rather 3/4 steps. In Persian music they don't even acknowledge the octave as anything important - they add intervals from the tonic.

[@cameronkellerpiano]

John Varney How are the 3/4 steps notated?

[@johnvarney3750]

***** fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%DA%A9%D8%B1%D9%86 fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B3%D8%B1%DB%8C_%28%D9%85%D9%88%D8%B3%DB%8C%D9%82%DB%8C%29

[@brianbarker2509]

This was mind bending. This is the type of video you share with, as many of your music loving, friends as you can.

[@My6stringer]

Wow !! That just blows my mind, what a wonderful way to interpret the rhythmic pulse of music !!!

[@danieldesalvo7739]

Just want to say that, as an old guy who grew up in classical music an am now working in radio with Americana, Blues and Bluegrass, I love your representation.

[@KalyAlly]

The best understanding of world rhythms I've seen ever! :-)

[@johnvarney3750]

Thanks Jason - it's the result of about 15 years thinking on the topic.

[@MaxDoesFitness]

the circle of beats looks like an atom with orbits and electrons, hehe

[@johnvarney3750]

at least the outdated Bohr model, anyway . . .

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

Upvote for physics geek.

[@hingusmingus6399]

@@princeofcupspoc9073 not a real physics geek, orbiting electrons are 3 dimensional

[@justanmichael5378]

Swear hahaha! But to any geeks around in 2018, there are no atoms! There is no material!!!

[@musikgeek9289]

@@justanmichael5378 2019 geek right here

[@charlievotin5169]

Ling Ling doesn't need to visualize rhythms. He just knows.

[@amelia1507]

40 HOURS EVERYDAY!!

[@jennifermai1589]

if you can play slowly, you can play it quickly

[@kevinnguyen552]

@@amelia1507 GENIUSES ARE BORN NOT CREATED!!!!

[@dream_of_music40]

Amaaaaazing

[@arrianah5080]

sacrilegious

[@theopaopa1]

excellent, ted-ed . 3:06 and thank you for naming the chacarera !!

[@dennisinkwa5233]

Nifty indeed! Never has the concept been presented more lucidly.

[@yash1152]

2:01 i like Rock 2:42 ... and Joropo 3:11 ... and quechua 3:14 ... and persian 4:12 ... and Northern Romanian 4:24 ... and middle eastern 4:31 ... and Brazillian Choro 4:38 ... and argentinian tango

[@LuisGutierrezG123]

This is cool, but I'm confused

[@johnvarney3750]

In what way?

[@LuisGutierrezG123]

In a way that I'm not used to this "musical notation"

[@johnvarney3750]

It's not meant to be "notation," but a graphic representation to be able to visualise how rhythmic events interact.

[@zain4019]

Luis Gutiérrez I don’t get this at all:)

[@sorciere_de_la_foret]

Me too.

[@shaft9000]

At certain tempos, this is exactly what a phonograph already does but in a de-combined closed loop instead of a spiral path containing the entire mix in one groove

[@leayrohn]

I’m in love with the TedEd page I’m so happy I found it!!

[@cameroonlodi]

one of the best educational videos i have ever seen. Great culture tye in with music I would have never heard, and new knowledge. Superb!

[@noise_wrangler]

The way you compare rhythms, finding their common elements and their differences is really useful. The wheel does help a lot. Do you know of any resource (online or not) that would do the same thing with a larger selection of the common styles of music? A sort of encyclopedia of rhythms and styles. Thanks for any pointer!

[@johnvarney3750]

That would be possible, though it would take a bit of time. What I'm more interested in is musicians harnessing the technique to construct their own complex rhythms

[@ellemoonriver]

this lesson is amazing!! isto é bem mais fácil de perceber do que pauta ! deveríamos criar outro sistema com base nisto

[@TenThumbsProductions]

Fantastic

[@diegomagana5358]

This is a good way of visualizing rhythms that loop over and over again. And it can help someone understand the idea that if you take the same rythm and shift your perception of the "main beat" or "where it starts" it can sound completely different. However I will never use this in practice. The bar way is much simpler.

[@johnvarney3750]

Your first point is what it's meant for. It's not meant as a replacement for standard notation.

[@قهقاع]

Thanks TED 😊. Slman from Libya.

[@OttmarFlorez]

En la traducción a español: en lugar de quechua, debería estar escrito cueca, que es un ritmo andino.

[@yuyiya]

You're right! The "Cueca" is a rhythm of the Andes, while "Quechua" is the language of the Maya people of Mexico.

[@EduardoGarrido2188]

@@yuyiya Quechua is the language of Andean peoples from the territory of the old Inca empire

[@yuyiya]

​@@EduardoGarrido2188 Glad somebody's paying attention! ;-) "Quechua is a Quechuan language with about 8 million people in Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia and Argentina. Quechua was the language of the Inca empire which was destroyed by the Spanish in the 16th century." (See www.omniglot.com/writing/quechua .)

[@jemma_palma]

thank you so much for this! i often struggle with rhythm but this gave me a whole new way to think about it. beautifully presented and explained

[@hotsistersue]

I love this! I see music in a totally different way now!

[@JohnsyOmniscient]

this is good for those who are still trying to discover their personal visual guide. I have already discovered mine, it kind looks like a bar graph with spaces between them that I can feel and anticipate beats with.

[@herberar]

Great visualization with really clear examples! Thanks a lot !!!

[@sealeoisnotok]

imagine thinking the backbone of an entire genre was a simple 4/4 rhythm just because you can play something from that genre in the rhythm

[@johnvarney3750]

Imagine.....

[@twistedparadoxELITE]

This is way more complicated than it needs to be. The current music notation is MUCH simpler and more effective than this, and to anyone with a bit of music theory knowledge, this is and redundant.

[@nacoran]

How? I mean, this is multimedia. The main effect, circle or bar, about this is that it is showing you physically how far apart the notes are. To do this without a computer, but to someone with some music theory (a few classes years ago in college) who does most of his recording these days staring at a screen looking at wave patterns this seems much more intuitive.

[@WassylAldais]

nacoran It feels more complicated for me :(

[@evgeniy3308]

True

[@anayaj402]

I think its because music notation is just more clear than this. It has the time signature, rests and the length of each note so as soon as you see it you can attempt it. With this wheel however i think trying to clap out the rhythm just by looking at it would be harder because (i find) its harder to keep an even pace in your head going around a circle

[@cjg8763]

I don't think this is to replace music notation it is just showing a way to visualize the rhythm patterns and spacing.

[@sorcerousfang]

I play taiko, and struggle ridiculously with reading music. We don't do much with western notation, as the music is typically taught vocally, but there are times when the group needs to work on something outside of practice where having something written is helpful - to everyone but me. This is fantastically easy for me to understand, and I could break down entire songs using your method! I absolutely love it. Any chance you're working on a program that utilizes this?

[@johnvarney3750]

Yes, I am, but the programmers are finding it tricky. In the meantime, and in parallel, I'm develpoing a set of rhythm wheel cards that can be used in a similar way.

[@thamestrinity]

This is one of the most awesome videos I've ever watch. Good job!!!

[@thaithaovy.1]

such a brilliant idea! useful knowledge learned, thank you!

[@themotherbrassica]

Fascinating idea, though I feel like the omission of Japan and South Korea was a missed opportunity since both countries' flags have big circles in the middle :)

[@Draven.G]

Wow I never expected to find an example from my my country (Venezuela), I am talking about joropo.

[@johnvarney3750]

+José Gouveia Not only that, but I play bass on the example, with some Colombian and a Venezuelan musician friends (arpa, cuatro & capachos)

[@drumavidcheckupz4792]

+John Varney Furruco?

[@johnvarney3750]

There's no furruco on it, but I have a slovenian one now, and might include it if I ever re-record it!

[@yuyiya]

+John Varney Do you have any gaita rhythms?

[@StanSinitsky]

We really need an app like this wheel :)

[@Lu._.Soriano]

I love everything about this video

[@krititara9544]

so beautifully designed

[@AnstonMusic]

How about screwing around in FL studio?

[@AnstonMusic]

This was a pretty diverse video with a hell of a lot of examples, good research!

[@MADDMOODY516]

i love doing tht!

[@sidechain0]

This was my thought exactly. It's so easy to get a good sense of rhythm in FL Studio.

[@ToadetteToad1]

How so? Curious :)

[@bencilbusher5070]

so how are you going to visual rhythm when you computer is turned off? or when you are away from home?

[@atomlightstone]

"Rhythm is found everywhere" *rhythm heaven intensifies*

[@salmakassimi5365]

More videos like this PLEAAASE

[@danord4213]

Wonderful! I am thrilled - both by the logic and the graphics.

[@fasttrack7430]

What a great video, especially for people not familiar with music theory. We all thank you!

[@zwerty007]

I'm not sure how this is actually a better, freer or less tyrannical way of visualising music. Turning the wheel = shifting all the beats in one direction on the stave. And if you wanted to write more complex/precise rhythms or polyrythms this method would be useless.

[@johnvarney3750]

+Chartre Khan It's advantage is that you can see ine inter-relationship betaween all the beats immediately, without even having to count. It's use for "complex, precise rhythms or polyrhyhms" is, in fact, is one of its biggest advantages> This example stops at 8 beats, but it goes a long way further than that, and in fact, the 3/4:6/8 and 4 circle 8-beat examples are all polyrhythms!

[@zwerty007]

I'm afraid I disagree, maybe because I've already used the stave notation system for a long time. Up until 32nd notes, it's instant to recognise the division of beats, and you can notate the lengths of beats too. Tuplets are written just with a number. How would polyrhythms of 5, 7, 9 and 10 be notated without counting the notes in this system? And, for example, that argentinian tango rhythm could be read as nearly any rhythmic division, totally changing the sound. You'd have to have prior knowledge of the division used, or write a number somewhere attached to the circle. love your profile picture by the way :)

[@johnvarney3750]

+Chartre Khan You're welcome to disagree - the world would be boring if we all saw things the same way. Some viewers seem to think that I'm proposing this method as an exclusive replacement for standard notation. The "tyranny" is meant as tongue in cheek. Where it's use is in creating polyrhytmic structures and experimnting with them to produce different configurations and then do what you wish with them. For example there are 17 possible configurations of a 16 beat system. It's much easier to just trun them around a wheel and find one you like rather than writing them out. Once you have one you like you can notate it . . or not . . .

[@joshuaper1]

+Chartre Khan for dancers choreographing a piece.. this is wayy eaiser to understand

[@johnvarney3750]

That's really interesting.

[@ChiquitaSpeaks]

I'm glad I watched this

[@cosmocelli]

This is genius! I never thought of it like that!

[@nataliapalacio2517]

i love it!! Thanks from Argentina!

[@michelevitarelli]

Thank you! This explanation made it all click for me. Thanks for the education.

[@RhythmAddictedState]

So this is basically a step sequencer.

[@projectnitefall8058]

yea but i like the visual for this one.

[@johnvarney3750]

It may share some aspects with what you describe, but it's above all a way of interconnecting cultures and genres though their common rhythmic patterns.

[@MachineThatCreates]

Yes. One way or another you are still"plotting" the beat.

[@Lake_mondota]

very interesting angle to explain rhythm

[@kiedwinallan]

For a drummer this was painful to Watch, specially the beat with the flute at 3:50 where the loop is slightly off. Also, the 4/4 rock sound wasn't the basic rock but a sort of reggae with electronic guitar right? Yet very interesting to see all the different styles in a circle

[@johnvarney3750]

I had to prepare all the audio examples myself in a very short period of time, so please ignore the technical imperfections and appreciate the lesson. Thanks!

[@bobwrotenstien315]

I wondered if that was obvious, that the flute was not a one bar repeating loop but an 8 bar phrase

[@lucascastillo9391]

​​@@johnvarney3750I liked the flute. Good lesson

[@RafaelSantos-xl1ut]

Eu fiquei encantado com esse Ted-Ed sobre visualizar ritmos por meio de uma viagem ao redor do mundo. 💖💖💖

[@silverfox17383]

This is quite similar to Indian classical music where the most popular form is teentaal. Here the circle is divided to 4 quadrants and each quadrant is further divided to 4 more parts, aggregated to 16 divisions.

[@johnvarney3750]

Yes.

[@johnvarney3750]

But Indiian music doesn't rotate, does it? It always has a specific "one". Also, it doesn't use layered rhythms.

[@silverfox17383]

@@johnvarney3750 It does follow a cyclic rhythm. Most of the popular songs of all genres can be played in "teentaal". Layered rhythm is not present. But we establish the basic cycle and improvise spontaneously depending upon the speed and the artist. Usually the percussion instrument shouldn't dominate the composition as this may distract and derail the lead instrumentalist. Usually the lead instrumentalist will provide space for the percussion instrumentalist to showcase his prowess. You can learn and understand more on this by watching "Pt. Ravish Shankar" 's video in which he explains this.

[@silverfox17383]

The video is titled " Pt. Ravi Shankar,Alla Rakha - Jhap taal"

[@johnvarney3750]

@@silverfox17383 Yes. I understand. I've played ragas on the double bass with Indian musicians. The main reason why I didn't go on with Indian music is that, to play it properly, it has to take over your life.

[@Magabriu]

This video its amazing. And it made my day listening Joropo in it 💛💙❤

[@mrtyreus0]

This is why J Dilla called his album Donuts. Rhythm and feel is infinite, thus its practically impossible to plot in a single dimension. Each track is a rhythmically round sweet morsel.

[@jimmycharles7475]

Freeing us from the TYRANNY of the bar line. I feel liberated from the oppression of the bar! lol

[@waggishquetzalcoatlu]

I've never really seen any other way to think about/visualize music other than a measure in a staff, so this is really interesting!!

[@somipax]

Simply GREAT presentation and illustration. Thank you.

[@TheiLame]

0:24 why isnt it enough?

[@johnvarney3750]

+TheiLame It's because a series of "beats" only becomes a "rhythm" when they're grouped in some way.

[@rillloudmother]

+TheiLame i don't agree with that statement. a ticking clock is definitely a rhythm, i think the video meant to say that a ticking clock is not music.

[@johnvarney3750]

+rillloudmother It's really a matter of opinion. I don't know if you know of Paul Hindemith. He agrees with me. If you want the ticking of a clock to be a rhythm, that's all right, but, for me, it's only when you group the ticks together in some way that it is no longer just a series of beats. In the same way, a series of sounds isn't necessarily a melody.

[@rillloudmother]

John Varney I guess I wouldn't argue with Hindemith, but I'd be interested to see where you got that from.

[@rillloudmother]

John Varney Can you direct me to which Hindemith volume you got that from please? I'm not being argumentative, I am genuinely interested as a musician.

[@adhocrat1]

"The tyranny of the bar line" A little over the top, don't you think?

[@johnvarney3750]

+adhocrat1 (tongue in cheek)

[@zacharycardon2353]

I think not.

[@Andre-tf4zt]

A little post-modernist, yes 😂

[@Namyag2357]

Is there an app for this specific visualization of music? THERE HAS TO BE ONE.

[@johnvarney3750]

+Namyag2357 I'm working on it. At least the rhythmic aspects anyway.

[@Namyag2357]

+John Varney Oh wow! That's wonderful! I can't wait :D

[@foljs5858]

+Namyag2357 www.factmag.com/2015/08/23/patterning-drum-machine-app-ipad/

[@FlameraidingV2]

+John Varney nice profile picture

[@mike.overly]

+foljs Thanks for the link . . .

[@Meow_yj]

Animation is so good! And also the narrator's voice.

[@OmShira]

Now Ableton just have to integrate this into their software Live!

[@mike.overly]

... freedom from the tyranny of the bar line ~ you gotta love that!

[@johnvarney3750]

+Mike Overly even though it's tongue in check, it does have a relevance in that many musicians see the bars as inflexible cells, and it's often a problem with young students get them to not stop at each one!

[@johnvarney3750]

+Noah W I hear it often. The thing is that they shouldn't be seen as "bite-size pieces," or as divisions, as that contributes to a lack of ability to perceive phrases and rhythms that cross the bar line. I hear that far too frequently in people who play Latin music with no rhythmic flow.

[@johnvarney3750]

A metronome can be useful, but it won't help you to understand how a chaconne is rhythmically ambiguous, having a 6/8 starting on beat 2 and a 3/4 on beat 1. Nor how the most basic piano part in a guajeo is just a son clave displaced by 3 quavers, or how the samba and the Cuban rumba clave share the same rhythmic configuration, but are displaced with respect to each other, or how the different instruments in a salsa ensemble start their cycles at different points in the bar, etc.

[@johnvarney3750]

Seeing it as a circle can help - I've seen it work in workshops. Anyway, you can't break a 6/8 down into two 3/4s - it would be two 3/8s - and then they start in the 3/4 and the two 3/8s would start in three different parts of the bar! And the other examples?

[@raptecclawtooth9046]

This circles remindme atoms

[@johnvarney3750]

Raptec Clawtooth Badillo True, because it has to do with the probablility of occurrence of rhythmic events.

[@64DrPeppers]

Maybe middle school textbook bohr atoms...

[@RahulPoddar1]

+Raptec Clawtooth Badillo Atomic orbitals look nothing like this, just saying

[@isasock2346]

Raptec Clawtooth Badillo true though

[@cjg8763]

Me too

[@tmass1]

if you want to visualize rhythm become a music producer.

[@sudiptoartstudio1338]

T-Mass Or, if you want to become a music producer, become a rhythm visualizer.... But, tom(ae)to tom(aa)to, I guess...

[@sudiptoartstudio1338]

T-Mass Or, if you want to become a music producer, become a rhythm visualizer.... But, tom(ae)to tom(aa)to, I guess...

[@kevingentry9214]

T-Mass I stop dreaming. I just wanna have fun.

[@athrvakhrbde]

How?

[@mockturtlesuppe]

Waaayyyy too many comments from people saying "Um, this wouldn't actually work as a way to notate music," and "This isn't practical." This model is an educational tool to help people better visualize and see connections between different rhythms. Obviously this is not a prescriptive proposal for music notation. The video creators are not saying "This is the new way we should be writing music."

[@johnvarney3750]

Thank you!!

[@jairuspatoc9682]

this is my favourite ted-ed tbh