A downtown tunnel could fix Portland's slow MAX system, but don't expect it anytime soon

Downtown Portland is a light rail bottleneck, and Metro says a tunnel would help fix it - but it's not a high priority right now. Still, train times aren't likely to improve any further without one.
Read more: www.kgw.com/article/news/loca...
Watch more The Story videos: bit.ly/watchTheStory
Follow The Story on Twitter: / thestorykgw
Follow The Story on Instagram: / thestorykgw

[@mrxman581]

LA Metro had a similar problem, and they built a tunnel beneath DTLA. It resulted in the consolidation of three disconnected light rail lines into two much more efficient lines. One going N/S and the other E/W. It reduced times as much as 20 minutes one way depending on where you were going. Mainly because it eliminated multiple transfers on each line to travel to the same locations. The tunnel is called the Regional Connector, and it opened in June 2023.

[@kyletopfer7818]

You absolutely don't want to be looking at LA for what to do, maybe lessons of what NOT to do. The regional connector project has baked in some serious problems now: short train lengths (platforms are only I believe 80m long), a flat junction on the Northern end, and series of level crossings & slow speed down Flower Street which should have been a continuation of the tunnel.

[@jdayala-wright8875]

​​@@kyletopfer7818 Actually you do to show how to do Regional Light Rail. We have our surface sections but we balance speed, frequency and station spacing

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@jdayala-wright8875 how to do regional light rail that gets poor ridership, is slow and ureliable, doesnt have anywhere near the capacity needed for a large City, cant be automated, builds in bottlenecks that will constrain future growth and improvements and builds low-ridership line extensions to Low density areas for political reasons rather than making much needed improvements to its much busier existing lines?

[@jdayala-wright8875]

​​​@@kyletopfer7818 Portland is limited to 55m long due to street blocks. LA's 80m length trains are similar to many metros around the world. The flat junction on Regional connector is a non issue because immediately before the junction is the Little Tokyo station which is a control valve for train operations. Ridership across many systems even those fully grade separated ones since the pandemic. Boston Green Line Light Rail system is both local and regional in scope and has flat junctions and a Core downtown tunnel and moves 30 trains an hour. But Light Rail is a piece to a larger transportation network that will require many tools to solve and provide mobility.

[@FDW137]

The Light Rail tunnel under downtown Los Angeles was always a part of the plans for the "first phase", but circumstances meant it took way longer to get open.

[@WestonRuter]

The transit tunnel is something I miss about living in Seattle. Zipping through downtown is so fast!

[@ronvandereerden4714]

Is that because it's a place you don't want to be?

[@mikaelj90]

@@ronvandereerden4714people need to take regional trips… It’s not a benefit to have trains trundle through downtown.

[@marcbuisson2463]

Why a tunnel? Why not give the right of way on the whole street, synchronise red light for traversial car traffic with the trains and make it a nice pedestrian street?

[@ronvandereerden4714]

@@mikaelj90 Then take regional trips in a car and urban trips any other way than the least efficient space hogs.

[@ronvandereerden4714]

@@marcbuisson2463 The speed limit would remain 15. Come to Vancouver (the real one) and see how it's done. But I'm all for pedestrian streets.

[@bryan89wr]

Why is the tunnel estimated to cost ~$5 billion? Vancouver's currently building a SkyTrain tunnel of the same length under Broadway for $2 billion.

[@redstonerelic]

Soil, river, local experience, etc.

[@hobog]

Ye ^ Vancouver has good rail project momentum. The Coquitlam extension was fairly recent

[@MUUKOW3]

Because the government loves to spend other people's money?

[@ronvandereerden4714]

@@redstonerelic Also a transit tunnel under False Creek in Vancouver for a small fraction of a $billion.

[@etunimi1208]

Cause Vancouver is in Canada. Every rail project is 3x more expensive in the US.

[@aurorawaxwing5866]

Please build the max tunnel. This system is embarrassing and incredibly wasteful to make people sit for so long just the move through downtown

[@MUUKOW3]

Its wasteful alright! Wasteful of taxpayers dollars. The people that use it need to pay the actual costs of the ride.

[@cptbuiltk7944]

​@@MUUKOW3 sit on it and spin buddy. Public transportation is the most important thing in the country

[@MUUKOW3]

@@cptbuiltk7944 Are you on fentynil? The only reason we have "public " transportation is because the services could be made to be profitable. The government stepped in and now we have bloated inefficient transportation agencies bleeding taxpayer dollars for what? Pull your finger out and smell it and that will give you the true aroma of public transport.

[@phathumudau223]

@@MUUKOW3 then you should pay the actual cost for roads and the suburban house you live in

[@joenuts5167]

@@MUUKOW3 do you pay for every road you use? nope. also we do pay for it

[@guinessbeer]

Link in Seattle and Skytrain in Vancouver are superior for this very reason.

[@TVHouseHistorian]

They’re superior for every reason. MAX trains are so dirty, and attract everything that creeps and crawls. SkyTrain requires payment in order to enter the gate to the platform, which keeps out the bums. It’s so super clean and nice.

[@mrxman581]

Build the tunnel. Portland should have gone with a sales tax increase. Even a half cent increase would have generated more than enough funding over a couple of decades for additional transit projects besides the tunnel. That's how Los Angeles did it more than once.

[@MUUKOW3]

How about increase thd fares so the people that ride transit actually cover the costs of their ride.

[@realquadmoo]

@@MUUKOW3 its not like drivers pay to drive on highways lol at least transit does make some amount of money from the riders

[@MUUKOW3]

@@realquadmoo Drivers pay through fuel taxes, property taxes licensing fees ect..

[@realquadmoo]

@@MUUKOW3 oh ok if we’re including that then you still have no argument because it pays for transit too. Transit agencies are often in debt, but it pales in comparison to how much debt cities rack up by unnecessarily spending on highways

[@mikaelj90]

@@MUUKOW3everyone pays property tax… Also, those fees don’t cover the cost of road building & maintenance.

[@RoboJules]

I really don't get why a downtown stadtbahn tunnel wasn't a consideration from the get go, especially given Portland's short block sizes which greatly limit the size and speed of trains. To compare what complete grade separation does for a system, while Portland's MAX LRT takes 22 minutes to go 2.5 miles through downtown, Vancouver's Canada Line takes 25 minutes to travel 9.5 miles from Downtown to the Airport. Portland's surface tracks are perfect for streetcars, but a regional LRT should be grade separated as much as possible.

[@expojam1473]

Please do this. Seattle learned from their mistakes with Line 2

[@user-uo7fw5bo1o]

Boston built a trolley tunnel in its severely congrsted downtown in 1897 and kept adding tunnels both for trolleys and heavy rail subways. The latest extension was built only a couple of years ago at a cost of around $2-3 billion for 4.5 miles of light railways where existing commuter rail tracks had to remain in service. I don't see why Portland keeps dithering while Vancouver, San Francisco, Oakland, and Los Angeles all have LRT and/or HRT subways downtown. Just build it, Portland!

[@TheWolfHowling]

I believe that a downtown tunnel is going to be a matter of when, not if. As ridership grows with the population, the capacity that a tunnel would afford will eventually be needed. While it may cost several pretty pennies, It's an investment in the city's transit infrastructure

[@martinsto8190]

From what I know by San Francisco's muni network. keep the street level rails in operation with single streetcars that can stop anywhere along the line, move all/most of the existing configuration of Portland's rolling stock in tunnels.

[@sirenwerks]

Frequency is right. I’d rather sit longer in a train than standing in the cold and rain at a station. Ridership is down in large part to the sleepers and that funny skunk smell. How about closing streets to traffic?

[@cityplanner3063]

Frequency is important but travel time is as well. Public transport need to be competitive so you need to have both frequency and travel time. If it takes me 30 minutes driving and 1 hour public transport, I would drive unless it is for like a big night where I drink.

[@MUUKOW3]

I'd rather just conveniently drive myself on my own schedule without riding with bums and tweakers on transit. Ridership is low because transit sucks.

[@secretagentcat]

this is too obvious. america needs to overthink the issue

[@realquadmoo]

@@MUUKOW3 transit only sucks but you are closed minded and like sitting in traffic you created

[@MUUKOW3]

@@realquadmoo At least I'm in my own car rocking the stereo with the sesr heaters on instead of sitting on some thinly padded plastic seat covered in urine watching a knife fight break out between a couple of bums stuck in a bus.

[@Zergcerebrates]

Portland can learn from Melbourne Australia. They have the largest tram network in the world and it's mostly running in high density areas without a problem.

[@jdillon8360]

Melbourne resident here. Our tram network might be large, but it faces some of the same issues as Portland. Namely, too many routes use the same central street, and a large part of the network shares space with regular vehicle traffic. The only "fast" parts of the network are the sections where the trams have their own dedicated tracks. Much of the network moves at walking pace during peak hour.

[@QuarioQuario54321]

Longer trains would often require a lot of other constructions that are often best done by elevating the line outside downtown for a large part and turning the system into an actual subway

[@PNWElevatorAviation]

They shoulda did this in the first place in the 80's. I've been thinking the same for months now!! They needa make this underground. It'll help keep the traffic flow as well as elevated that doesn't disrupt roads especially the busy ones. Again, if they put it underground, that'll improve car traffic & train traffic 100% & so that way, no more fare evasions & less wide ass open stations so they can install TALL turnstiles. They even get blocked by parades

[@masoncarter88]

I don't understand why they can't try increasing the speed of the trains to 25 mph, 15 mph is really slow even for the surface

[@tomwujek4867]

Weight of the trains is the main reason. You need to have certain stopping distances for trains that weigh around 90,000-130,000 lbs per car.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

​@@tomwujek4867you cant tell me thats the issue.

[@tomwujek4867]

@@KeVIn-pm7pu Typically a train has emergency braking at 3.5 mph. If it's going 25 mph, it still takes a train approximately 7 seconds to stop. That rating is also influcened by weight of the train. It's not the only issue. Also have to look at light timings as well.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

​@@tomwujek4867what light Timing? Just separate it from the streets anf give it priority.

[@tomwujek4867]

@@KeVIn-pm7pu That can't be done everywhere. One example I can give is the system in Buffalo, NY. Grade separation was looked at with an underground tunnel. The water table was too high and prohibited construction. I get that a tunnel may be a better option. I didn't say it's not. Reality is it can't be done in all situations.

[@jeramiahdaley6561]

Are they going to be properly patrolled because your talking a tunnel under ground out of sight and it seems like tri-met already has problems just securing above ground.

[@grmmjhnsn2]

Love seeing Portland eye big ideas!!!

[@tavroaar8173]

Thats exactly what we need! Big new ideas!

[@terenceflanagan1225]

Lol, you can't even get every day sht together get real

[@methus57]

@@tavroaar8173 this city spends so much time thinking about big ideas that they ignore all the small tasks that are expected of them

[@hobog]

Elevated track would be cheaper but Portland's awesome street foliage can't accommodate that

[@robertcartwright4374]

It definitely ought to be considered. Sometimes binds (like how to accommodate both trees and an elevated train) can be finessed.

[@TomBusse-rw4dg]

Portland already has the funding - it's called PCEF - which has half a billion that could be used to leverage FTA grants as a local match.

[@Stargate2077]

How about pedestrianizing downtown Portland?

[@methus57]

what

[@MUUKOW3]

Isn't ig already full of tents and zombie street walkers? Say how would you get product to stores or food to restaurants? Are you part of the Dumass family?

[@psedoali]

car free? only expanded walking and optimized for bikes?

[@methus57]

@@psedoali dude is delusional

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

​@@methus57 literally exisits all over the World including in America. How is it delusional if its already a thing

[@BellaDeininger]

I live in downtown, and i already hate driving with the max there. Win win honestly. And if it gets quicker ill take it more.

[@methus57]

too expensive. WIN LOSS at best

[@joenuts5167]

@@methus57 do you say too expensive when it comes to highways??

[@methus57]

@@joenuts5167 no. The Division debacle is just one of the many examples of massively expensive, stupid expenditures by TriMet

[@travelsofmunch1476]

For $5 Billion, a subway line downtown, a new tunnel under the river, 4 new stations and the creation of an express line this would be a steal

[@captainslow9977]

Love the idea!!! How would they prevent transients from camping in it?

[@standardannonymousguy]

Pat, before putting the max underground in a tunnel, let's consider once again putting a lid or a cap on parts of the I-405. Yes there are on and off ramps, but the entire highway would not need to be covered. Feasibility is increased given it is already well below grade. Adding a lid would allow for new developments over the top but more importantly make that area of downtown much quieter and liveable.

[@kyletopfer7818]

What does that do for rail speeds or capacity though, which is what a rail tunnel would seek to address? By all means improve the streetscape but these are for different tasks.

[@jordanledoux197]

How about you keep your highway funding requests out of our transit funding discussions.

[@nicktibbets]

Is there a reason that we don't see longer trains? I think I've only seen three full max trains running at once a few times. Seems like that would help with full trains. But, there's gotta be a reason.

[@tyronewilson6463]

I believe that trains are currently limited in length to the Portland city block length. If you have trains that are 3 cars or longer I think you start worrying about the trains causing gridlock since they might block a previous cross street when they stopped at the next cross street.

[@deandrebuggs3494]

We have the same issue here in San Francisco with 5 lines running in the Market Street Subway (1 line currently suspended) and a 6th shuttle line during commute hours and certain events. So having 5-6 lines all running in one tunnel causes huge delays if anything happens and can cause a domino effect throughout the entire Metro system. Riders seriously prefer to have less frequent, delayed and a one seat ride to/from Downtown instead of a way more frequent lines, less delays but at a cost of more transfers by keeping most lines out the subway. I just don't get it. If you told me the current one seat ride that runs every 10-15mins (knowing delays can push that to 20mins or more) can be improved to all lines running every 3-7mins and more reliable, but I would need to transfer one time.... I definitely would vote to have more transfers and keeping some lines on the street. Also, a bonus of a shuttle that stays in the subway that runs every 5mins EVERYDAY and ALL DAY. It's a no brainer for me and that one transfer is nothing compared to all the Pros we would benefit from.

[@robertcartwright4374]

I'm not that familiar with the Portland situation, but if part of the problem is street congestion slowing the trains downtown, couldn't that be very affordably addressed by banning cars from the lanes the trains travel on, and giving the trains signal priority? These remedies were not mentioned. The superior carrying capacity of light rail would more than offset the loss of a couple lanes for cars. The higher speeds would improve ridership, and thereby reduce traffic congestion in the city as a whole, even if it worsened in the train's immediate vicinity.

[@artlewellan2294]

The subway route - below the 6th Ave transit mall - is NOT possible safely nor is it the ideal nor most productive route. It was chosen solely to influence the redevelopment of the Federal Post Office site with a subway station at the abandoned Greyhound Depot. Immediately after announcing the route preference, "allowable building heights" were raised from 30 to 40-stories, never mind the unmanageable traffic this density would generate nor pedestrian amenities like treescape and walkways nor the question of seismic stability and danger in predicted earthquakes. The ideal route through downtown is along Naito Pkwy where a narrow "stacked" cut-n-cover tunnel would stabilize waterfront soils and serve more transit patrons. KGW speaks for PBA members who want transit to never pose a threat to their automobile-related profits.

[@matthewfunk734]

Until there is more security for passengers to feel safe riding the MAX, there probably won't be much of an increase in ridership.. so, hard to justify such an investment when there are still other issues that need to be resolved.

[@terenceflanagan1225]

Reality but Portland is about denial and projection

[@e621_]

guy at the end did not know what to do with his hands... u can see the hands anxiety live! other guy had shit in his hands to fiddle with

[@jesuseduardoangulozamorano53]

A fast way to speed up MAX Lines would be to make Red Line going from Clackamas to PDX Airport, instead of having two additional lines going to City Center from that Gateway. They could change frequency from 15 to 10 minutes, and provide a better service. For Blue Line, they could just increase frequency as well, instead of having Red Line running the SAME rails.

[@dfor]

Yeah, we currently have 48 trains running when all lines are at 15 minute frequencies. If they changed the red line to run from PDX-Clackamas, got rid of the green line branding, and combined the yellow/orange to be the one line that it actually is, it would only take 46 trains to run 10 minute frequencies across the entire system. The new Red 205 line would take 9 or 10 trains depending on if Trimet wanted to do fall backs at both ends of the line or just one for operator breaks, the yellow/orange would take 14 trains instead of the current 10 to run 10 minute headways, and the blue would have 23 trains to run 10 minute headways. At that point you would have gateway, rose quarter, and pioneer square being major transfer points and there would only be 2 lines crossing the steel bridge instead of 4, reducing congestion while majorly increasing frequency on burnside, the 205 segments, and the yellow/orange lines outside of the transit mall.

[@AlexDahl]

why not just build dedicated bus/tram lanes downtown and give trams stoplight priorities? Much cheaper options that other countries use all the time.

[@mikaelj90]

Those trams are usually local. You do need a totally grade separated section for lines as long as MAX. A transit way wouldn’t solve the bridge issue and would require stopping or slowing down at cross street. There’s a reason PDX’s ridership per mile pales in comparison to Vancouver’s.

[@grujber7342]

The problem is downtown isn't much of a destination anymore. Until there are more rental units available or stores or bars to visit, the lack of ordinary people presence will emphasize the junkies and drug addicts hanging around. The reason NYC is still in shape despite seeing increasing crime is because people don't disperse after 5pm. They stay around to meet up with each other and that maintains some level of life in the streets.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

you know there is a quiet simple solution against junkies and drug addicts?! Portuguese pioneered it and other places that put them in place had the same effects. other than that those people are too a part of society that is allowed and has every right to be in public places.

[@grujber7342]

@@KeVIn-pm7pu Reread my comment. I didn't say that they have no right to be there. The problem is that the lack of ordinary social traffic emphasizes the homeless presence and makes the city feel worse.

[@JAKempelly]

Let's make it a priority

[@daviddooley5361]

And where would the entrance for the tunnel be on each end as well as how many underground stops??

[@c187rocks]

What kind of title is, "Deeming Kehe"?

[@jdillon8360]

Well, for starters, those are trams, not trains. (Or streetcars if you prefer that term.)

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

All trams are train, arent they? just not all train are trams.

[@jdillon8360]

@@KeVIn-pm7pu Well strictly speaking, I guess you are right 😀

[@matthewadventureexploratio6596]

Grade Separation is Incredibly Expensive, it won’t happen anytime soon, maybe in 10 to 20 more years, it’ll be a Long Time.

[@rerun3283]

That tunnel would be filled with hobos' garbage piles 😂

[@TheRichb688]

never have any train drivers

[@PortlandsTransport]

If this means MORE TAXES forget it

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

depends. if it increases ridership and therefore reduces car traffic it has much potential to reduce the tax burden because less streets need resurfacing

[@PDXLibertarian]

They could use the PCEF Funds to leverage federal infrastructure grants...

[@TheRichb688]

Alotof people do not feel safe with all these unstable homeless people on the train-they will not ride on it

[@ddyeo503]

Coming into Portland on highway 26 the tunnel needs 2 more lanes going through. It needs 2 lanes to the south and 2 lanes to the north. Since the tunnel has 2 separate tunnels they could combine both tunnels and make it bigger. As far as spending more money on Max, well I'll leave that to the people who ride Max. First is there a real demand for it?

[@Hecto356]

Yes trimet max lines have been improved over the years and a lot of new routes have been added but the max schedule is a huge joke! There’s always something that seems to interrupt the max and cause huge delays which is constantly a huge pain.

[@Cupertinorail]

Not only is a tunnel proposal troublesome but false pipe dreams of MAX going to Tualatin are too. I work in the area and could benefit from it. There will be a chance I won't have to cut through the downtown segment. It's really lame how a city that is known for it's public transport has people biased against it.

[@chesterroberts4647]

How much would it cost to finish the original mt hood highway? That could help with a lot of traffic problems in Portland!

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

Highways dont help with traffic they produce traffic

[@chickennuggetcentral576]

make it suck even more dumbass

[@Lumpology]

STOP putting light rail in a tunnel, tunnels are for real metro cars, elevated guide ways are so much cheaper.

[@kyletopfer7818]

The blue line is pretty close to a real metro outside of the downtown section, it just can't run longer trains because of the short city blocks which would be fixed by a tunnel or as you suggest elevating it.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

​@@kyletopfer7818 because if City Blocks ? I dont get it

[@user-uo7fw5bo1o]

Once the light rail is inside the tunnel the rest of the light rail 🚊 can be upgraded to light metro 🚈 provided the whole system is separate from street or boulevard median trackage. And the surface light railway tracks can be handed over to the local streetcar, a win win! 👍👍

[@kyletopfer7818]

@@KeVIn-pm7pu the DoT will never agree to let you build platforms long enough to run longer trains because they will block intersections as will the trains themselves at Red Lights. Its the same reason San Francisco doesnt run longer trains on several of its lines despite needing the capacity. A Tunnel would allow you to build longer platforms over 100m long capable of taking many more passengers per consist.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

@@kyletopfer7818 So the issue is political not a physical one. just seperate the damn train from the road and you can increase the length of the train. DoT needs to understand the concept of strong towns.... You dont need a tunnel for that. you just need to reduce car infastructure and seperate and increase train infastructure. thats much faster and cheaper and more effective. dont fall far the 50s scam of putting trains underground so the car can drive freely until the downs thompson paradox introduces worse traffic.

[@mileswhitaker9684]

This would be awesome, but just imagine how scary it would be to wait at a subway stop at midnight in downtown Portland.

[@asherabel3724]

I have been in Subway stops in NYC and Chicago late at night with no safety issues

[@terenceflanagan1225]

Its sketchy af during the day. Reality . People here are serious dreamers and cowards about reality

[@user-uo7fw5bo1o]

No scarier than Boston, Miami, or New York City elevated/subway stops in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, and I was there!

[@matthewadventureexploratio6596]

Please Build a Light Rail Bridge over 185th, it’s a Very Bad Intersection on Baseline. After Red Line Extension to Hillsboro Fairgrounds soon. Building a Tunnel in Downtown Portland is a good idea. That will Eliminate some Railroad Crossings, we don’t want people to die. Grade Separation is Very Important to Save Life’s & Ease Congestion. Installing more Elevators at more Underground Stations like Washington Park.

[@jonathanstensberg]

Building a tunnel for only one line is idiotic. This is the most expensive and valuable investment you can make; you want to maximize the utility of that investment, not minimize it! Put as many trains in that tunnel as possible.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

Why increase cost unnecessary? Keep it above ground and give it priority and grade seperation.

[@rockercater]

*WHY DO WE HAVE TO BE SO FAST* *TAKE A BREATH AND YOU SAVE MONEY* *CATER*

[@mikaelj90]

No, faster gets people out of their cars which is less traffic, fewer collisions, and cleaner air. Time is money. There’s a reason Vancouver’s system carries far more people per mile than MAX.

[@norahjaneeast5450]

Sure we should put a tunnel for Max in downtown Portland it would sort of cure the whole it's so dangerous in downtown Portland the only problem is the party above ground would move Underground right and who is even using the max light rail anymore who's going downtown Portland other than houseless Americans looking for fentanyl and meth or something I would probably bet those people probably aren't even paying the fair on an above ground MAX Line there is a phenomenon in New York City called jumping the turnstile strangely enough the people who are doing such things are not necessarily their to ride the train anyway can I believe we're talking about putting a train underground that's not even being used above ground

[@terenceflanagan1225]

Why do you hate punctuation ? Pps ? Your keyboard broken ?

[@norahjaneeast5450]

Bad voice recognition having to go back you know using the tools don't have a good keyboard here if I did I heard Dr James Lindsay talk about this as well it's almost as if the algorithm is made to stop people from commenting because you have to keep going back. And I'm sorry got to get back to your comment you're correct I don't use. The correct punctuations and all of that you're so correct got to admit when you're wrong! Need to do better or they will Quite rightly think jane .both informed illiterate and an idiot You're right in your criticism thank you for commenting

[@romanrat5613]

5 billion dollars is an utterly insane price

[@MarvinThiessen]

Here comes even more taxes. City Hall and Metro never met a tax they didn't like. Portland's official song should be George Harrison's "Taxman".

[@ronvandereerden4714]

Do you have ANY idea how much taxes goes toward roads to move the most expensive and inefficient mode of transportation ever devised? A car takes up 10X the space - or more. A car is about 0.5% energy efficient.

[@MichaelZimmerer]

@@ronvandereerden4714 So you're saying this would mean a tax break? If not, what exactly are you saying? The content explicitly says the project was put on hold because of voter rejecting on a payroll tax. "Do you have ANY idea" what you're even trying to convey?

[@ronvandereerden4714]

@@MichaelZimmerer I didn't say people were smart or logical or that they are allowed to know the truth about how much it costs taxpayers to move people in cars. Stop and think about it for a millisecond. You could fit 20 times the transit riders in the same lane as a car. In cities, space is the biggest cost. There is an up-front cost to the tunnel, but it would save a fortune by not building 20 lanes for cars. Car drivers are by far the biggest transportation burden on taxpayers.

[@MUUKOW3]

@@ronvandereerden4714 Your brain is about ooo5 efficient. Transit is very inefficient with cost .

[@MUUKOW3]

@@ronvandereerden4714 Um no ,all you goods services come from vehicles on roads.

[@charlespeterson778]

What a great idea, it can double as a homeless shelter

[@walt3223]

What is wrong with using buses?

[@ronvandereerden4714]

Four of five times as many drivers which would cripple operations financing.

[@jamesparson]

Are you suggesting a bus tunnel?

[@walt3223]

@@jamesparson No, but maybe, thinking about earthquakes. Get around faster on buses, buses are flexible, buses are cheaper, in a deserter trains are useless. What are you thinking?

[@joenuts5167]

@@walt3223 busses are not viable for mass transit and they suck to ride. fuck busses

[@mikaelj90]

@@walt3223what issues listed in the video would buses solve? Go back and listen to the first :30 until it clicks.

[@jrccnova]

This would solve the homeless problem, they'll all be hanging out down there

[@Will-zd2lj]

If you can build a tunnel you can build housing for those without a home.

[@MUUKOW3]

@@Will-zd2lj Why don't they work and provide their own housing? The money one could save not buying drugs and cigarettes.

[@Will-zd2lj]

@@MUUKOW3 Because no one AND I MEAN NO ONE deserve to not have a place to lay their head in this country especially when you live in a city 2nd in highest tax rate. America can solve homelessness We spend $820 billion per year on military. $20 billion can solve homelessness in America per year.

[@MUUKOW3]

@@Will-zd2lj No one deserves housing I mean NO ONE you earn your housing through work and contributing.

[@Will-zd2lj]

@@MUUKOW3 That says a lot about your character. Hell is hot.

[@methus57]

NO! Too expensive. TriMet already wastes MILLIONS every year.

[@secretagentcat]

they have the money for war but not the people

[@andrewmurray9391]

Just do what bigger cities have done. Ny and Seattle put in Els and ferries, then tore them down. This stuff is predictable. That's many people's 9-5 job. You as a city are just going to have to go through it like the rest have. Or else you'll end up as the periphery of myopia; "vintage."

[@jaylewis5035]

Pittsburgh Light Rail has a tunnel through downtown. It's closed until June for a $150 million track repair. Replaced by buses. Money pit.

[@artlewellan2294]

I posted a lengthy dissertation on why the proposed MAX subway route is not seismically stable nor ideally productive nor without objectionably high impact and KGW decided to pull that public comment down. Portland's ruling class use media outlets like KGW to dispense their propaganda. The subway route was chosen to influence development of the Federal Post office site as a station would be located at the Greyhound depot with no mention of why it should remain a working bus terminal. Development is being put ahead of public safety and the greater good. Real estate broker Ted Wheeler lied when he claimed to love Portland. Too much has gone wrong under his watch.

[@ronvandereerden4714]

Pretty pathetic. Low ridership because of crap service. Crap service because of low ridership. Get out of your cars.

[@MUUKOW3]

Why ? Cars are better why stand on a corner in the rain for a bus or walk blocks to a station . The ride with crackheads and bums. Pick up thd kids? Nope. Stop and get groceries? Nope. Pick up stuff at the hardware store for the weekend projects? Nope . Transit is not efficient nor convenient.

[@ronvandereerden4714]

@@MUUKOW3 If cars are better it's because your city is worse. Why spend $10k/year on a depreciating asset when you could do anything else? Cars are the biggest mistake to happen to cities. They're great in small towns. Too many people in growing cities think they're still in small towns. Cars are a liability in the big cities of the world. Everything else takes up a small fraction of the space.

[@MUUKOW3]

@@ronvandereerden4714 I don't spend 10k a year . My assets are paid for and are actually a net positive. They more than make up for time lost by transit. Guees what ? My asset got me where I needed to go when transit quit working in the ice storm. Warm cozy and safe.

[@greasher926]

@@ronvandereerden4714 cars are still needed if you need to travel outside of the city into the rural areas/wilderness. Not everyone lives their whole life within a 10 mile radius of a urban downtown. I agree that ideally you don’t need to use your car for day to day activities and thus each household doesn’t really need more than one car. But that will only happen with properly designed public transit with timetables that are competitive with cars. In most cases it’s much faster to drive in traffic than it is to ride multiple bus/rail lines. Transfers eat up a lot of time.

[@ronvandereerden4714]

@@greasher926 Nobody ever said cars aren't needed. But if all you do is drive you can't expect anybody to roll out the best transit system. If you factor in the time it takes to make the money to afford the car then good transit becomes competitive.

[@bogdanivchenko3723]

Thank you Powell for useless streetcars instead of a fast freeway. “Light rail” being a slow streetcar is something everyone knew would happen

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

😂😂fast Freeway

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

Buddy one more lane doesnt fix traffic

[@user-uo7fw5bo1o]

Boston built fast freeways at the expense of maintaining their rail transit system and look at the city now. Their transit system just started recovering and they have a $25 billion backlog in critical repairs... and their freeways are slower as ever!

[@bogdanivchenko3723]

@@user-uo7fw5bo1o they have a metro, Portland has a very slow streetcar. Not the same.

[@user-uo7fw5bo1o]

@@bogdanivchenko3723 Portland can have a metro so long as they get the metropolitan light railways out of the streets and avenues! Any light railway once fully grade separate or right-of-way separate can be upgraded to a light metro.

[@cvrart]

They have their priorities wrong. Ridership isn't even at high enough levels at present and they're having trouble funding the maintenance of the existing system with fares. They need to fix the issues of safety and crime and drugs on the trains as a top priority, which may then lead to increases in ridership. They also need to enforce fares for riders, not only to increase their revenues for funding maintenance, but also as a way of "filtering out" the freeloader elements, among which are those people more likely to use drugs and/or commit crimes on the trains. Simply enforcing fares would be a good way to indirectly improve safety on the trains. Make the current system safe to use first, before thinking about begging taxpayers to fund multi-billion dollar white elephant projects that may just end up being underused.

[@thewomanofhighcastle]

When will Californian's stop moving to Portland and changing traffic/bike street use? Enough is enough, stop spending what you don't have. Let's go back to Car-pooling! Boom problem solved.

[@KeVIn-pm7pu]

You complain about better Urban Mobility?

[@larryjanson4011]

with all the drugs and crime, why would anyone want to go there?

[@wl6020]

Tilikum bridge should have been wider to allow cars.

[@MarvinThiessen]

City Hall (and PBOT) declared "war on cars" 50 years ago, that's why there hasn't been any significant infrastructure built in 40 yrs., except for the ridiculous 2 lane Sellwood Bridge.

[@jonw999999]

They would clog up the bridge

[@ronvandereerden4714]

You can never solve traffic by making it easier to use the mode of transportation that is causing all the congestion.

[@methus57]

@@ronvandereerden4714 sure you can.

[@wl6020]

@@ronvandereerden4714 if portland closes a few bridges and force people to use the light rail, you will see the chaos. Sooner or later more apartments will be built in downtown so population will increase.