A Far Too Brief History of the Mail Truck.

[@alstruck8063]

In case anybody is wondering why the DJ Jeep and Grumman LLV last so long, it's the KISS principle of engineering. Love those simple easy to maintain vehicles! Thanks again Jon.

[@rickc303]

Nobody's wondering what's common knowledge 😂

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the kind words, and yeah. Part of my love of older cars is they're just.... mechanical.

[@jar407]

the last years keeping them running long after design life cost a fortune. Grumman llv designed to last to 2010 -15 in the areas salt is used heavy the dept spends 10,000 to replace the frames . trans 3 sp probable 1000. engines 2000. . the good move was the aluminum step van body, back when the step van was more common the auto companies would sell new chassis and the body was removed and truck got new chassis engine suspension brakes etc for half of new but no longer made today . since every few yrs the whole things redesigned . the real problem usps buys whole fleets at one time delivered over few short time so they all wear out the same time. commercial companies turn over a % every year so if a bad year there not jammed uo. and postal vans are too custom today instead of the small half ton step van which had a 7 and 8 ft load space easly turned out right hand bit gm and ih discontinues them as companies went to the regular vans seen today

[@deatruiy]

Meh, that’s kind of true but also usps spends thousands of dollars a year to keep them running. You can keep just about any car going if you spend enough money on it

[@KevinWindsor1971]

The transmissions are European junk TH 180's even though they have the Turbo Hydramatic name.

[@keeganaustin]

I drove an LLV today! At my office we have a few dodge caravans, 2 ram promasters, one mercedes metris, a ford stepvan, and of course a bunch of LLVs.

[@jhoncho4x4]

My mailman sat in passenger seat and drove his bench seat Chevrolet Celebrity with his left hand and foot. He also happen to be my neighbor so I talked to him about it. He said he was compensated for using his own vehicle and could use any vehicle he wanted. Some others bought old used right hand drive DJ's but he said the car was more comfortable and reliable. My aunt became a mail carrier and bought a Jeep Patriot; they were available with right hand drive. Small Indiana rural county mail carriers used their personal vehicles from the 2000's and back. There was one official mail truck parked at the post office; that was used when their personal vehicle was being serviced or had a large package on their route; special deliveries. It looked like it was an older model of the period DJ from a city but with new paint and decals. It would occasionally deliver mail to my house growing up.

[@Numer1Polak]

Almost all my local rural indiana carries use their own jeeps. One lady had an old rhd subaru legacy wagon that subaru (being based in lafayette) got for her.

[@lancerevell5979]

One of my neighbors, who I went to high school with in the early 1970s, became a rural mail carrier. She bought her own Mail Jeep, and still has it today.

[@Trance88]

Here in west Michigan, It's all Grumman LLV's powered by iron dukes. Lots of '87-'92s around here with very faded paint.

[@jeffpeterson6959]

Before the LLV was a vehicle we just called 'The Half Ton' which was a van type RHD similar to the LLV. The seating was much better and there were vents that could be opened to blow air on your feet. A great feature that was never seen again. Pretty cool they made electric jeeps in the '70's . Never, ever seen one. Have been driving an LLV every day for 30 years now and most people don't know how noisy they are. Every metal and aluminum panel rattles at every bump. They were indeed built to last but need to be replaced. Our office uses the LLV's plus Pro Master vans and the Mercedes panel wagon. Can't stand the look of the new vehicle, nicknamed the Platypus! But AC does help.

[@rhekman]

I'd argue Grumman's most famous vehicles are of the *cat designation, with planes like the Wildcat, Hellcat, Bearcat, and F14 Tomcat. The LLV really should have been nicknamed the "Mailcat". (With thanks to Fat Electrician.)

[@zi0cat]

That's really good

[@SuperShermanTanker]

Such a missed opportunity

[@rythemzlatin]

Well *_H_* *🏒🏒 _Yeah_ , of _course_ a *cat* ! ! Ya think a mailman would want *a* *DOG* as a mascot ?! 😄 😉 jk

[@dannypipewrench533]

Their L vehicles seem to be fairly prominent as well. The LLV, the LEM.

[@KenanTurkiye]

EVERYONE please make a playlist about Palestine like I have and ask others to have such a playlist. Or copy directly the list I have and ask others to copy it from you, and they ask others copy from them. We need to spread the truth, millions, billions of us. Once you copy the playlist, leave messages under most populous comments in videos, drawing attention to your channel, not specifically mentioning the name of the holy lands, because they can block it if it's recognized. And change your message each time so the AI does not block you from posting, just have a series of comments on the side to copy-paste.

[@brooksrownd2275]

The old 1970s mail jeeps were one of those nice bits of americana.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Back when they were being replaced I was a young lad, and a diehard Jeep fan. I remember being literally angry they were doing away with the Jeeps.

[@LuisUrbieta]

Wow I can't believe the mail dates back back thousands of years ago. ​@@AllCarswithJon

[@Jack_Stafford]

My mailman drove the same kind of jeep as my GI Joe. And both came through for us no matter what. I wanted to be one.

[@sludge8506]

The postal jeeps were rough to drive, with its short wheelbase, narrow width, and high center of gravity.

[@SDS-1]

I can totally believe they are S-10 trucks. The old square bodies are my fave truck

[@strawberrymilk9767]

The same company that made the legendary F-14 Tomcat also made the mail trucks that you se everywhere

[@Skittleman2341]

I know some areas around where I live, there are rural mail carriers that use older vehicles, like the XJ Jeep Cherokees, Chevy Venture minivans, and Ford Escort station wagons. I am glad to hear about the mail delivery trucks as I think these are very interesting vehicles. The mailman in my area, also like yours, drives an old Grumman LLV.

[@AllCarswithJon]

I'm not sure, but I think the rural areas like that are "contractors" that have to supply their own vehicles?

[@DrDavidErickson]

@@AllCarswithJon Correct. In the rural area where I live there are a variety of vehicles used by the mail carriers, but the most common is an old sedan with a bench seat like a Buick LeSabre (they just run forever) or a much newer RHD Jeep Wrangler (always a 4 door at this point).

[@The105ODST]

Even crazier is that I've seen some USPS mail carrier Pontiac G3 out on their routes.

[@jailbird1133]

​@@AllCarswithJonthey are full post office employees who use their own vehicles. My dad retired as a rural carrier after 35 years.

[@brucehalleran1149]

​@The105ODST When you start as an RCA on a route that doesn't have an assigned vehicle you must run what you brung. Bless that determined soul who can make a compact work in the era of parcels.

[@petemiksich5760]

I drove a Dodge full size van that had a 318 Cubic Inch engine and a sliding side door for loading sacks of mail in addition to the traditional back door model. It was white with the USPS logos on both sides. Man was it fast! I loved it and used it whenever I could. It was especially good for Express Mail delivery, as it could fly from one stop to the next. The LLV was a real good delivery vehicle and I also liked using it on evening mailbox collection runs. The only bad thing about the LLV was that it had no side windows so you had to get real good at backing it up with the side mirrors.

[@vidiottheowl2825]

Grumman wasn't lying, those Vehicles can Long Life

[@Snake-ms7sj]

Any vehicle can last long if you keep rebuilding/replacing engines and transmissions.

[@mrgurulittle7000]

Imagine if AMC won the contract for US Mail vans. We could be having Jeep Mail vans today. RIP AMC. This video was interesting. I never thought twice about mail vans, but it’s a cool story.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks so much, glad you like it! For all the variety of trucks and vans they use (minivans, box vans, airfreight, etc) there's surprisingly little information out there about all that!

[@mrgurulittle7000]

@@AllCarswithJon You did well in piecing the information you had. I didn’t know they had that much information.😆

[@megazombiekiller9000]

I don’t know about you, but I got my mail by jeep lol. Have to love rural mail carriers just using personal vehicles.

[@mrgurulittle7000]

@@megazombiekiller9000Man, that’s cool.😎

[@gunnermurphy6632]

​@mrgurulittle7000 my postal service uses a few xjs, and they have a cj too

[@richdiscoveries]

Well, if we have learned anything recently, it's that people don't learn from the past or they just don't know it.. God Bless brother. Thank you again for all your research and time

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the kind words

[@jchiliw]

Grumman LLV's were made in Muncy, Pennsylvania. My friend had a contract to haul 4 at a time with his flatbed truck. He would take them to Pittsburgh,where they were loaded on railcars and sent out west. I helped him load them,so I got to drive them. They only put enough gas in them to get them out of the factory. We carried a gas can in case they ran out while loading them.

[@kennethbethea8253]

When I started in 1967, I was driving a US Postal Mailster. 3 wheeled vehicle with canvas doors and 3 speed transmission and reverse. It was so small it could u-turn in a standard driveway.

[@hearsejr]

My first car was a $175, 1972 international 1/ 4 ton ex mail truck Stepvan with right hand steering and straight six.... the same engine in an AMC gremlin. LOL. I loved it. Since then I a DJ-5 also but it had a hole in a piston. I drove it for several years like that, and removed the sliding doors and used it for my scuba diving salvage and repair work. It was pretty popular to see it around Beaufort, and in Hilton SC in the 1990s.

[@SARARocketMan]

Growing up in Scottsdale, Arizona. I remember in the 60s when the mail service used three wheel Cushmans for delivering the mail.

[@MasonHamlin93]

Thanks. My dad was a postman for 33 years and I remember him in the jeep and then the long life, which looked ugly at the time. I've always wanted an electric car since I was young, but I can't justify the cost, but a mail vehicle is perfect for electric: same distant everyday and can be charged at night. A long haul truck not so much!

[@jaakkoiswatching6437]

In Finland mail is delivered in very normal vans. Made in huge numbers, easy to buy and you get the latest tech. So cheap that they don't need to last for 30 years.

[@The_Fancave]

Great video. I drove a '91 LLV. Anything over 35 MPH it felt like it was about to explode. They got in a Ford FFV once that I drove for a day, wow, what a difference. That was like a rocketship! I also drove Ram Promasters and Mercedes Metris vans on Sundays delivering Amazon packages. On a funny side note; both the GM LLV, and Ford FFV used Chrysler key blanks. Go figure!

[@jp040759]

Perfect timing. I was just talking with a mail lady about here vehicle. She said it took 3 months to get used to the right hand steering wheel and she quickly noted no Air Conditioning. I walk around it looking to see some kind of badging to ID who made them. Thus my smile when I saw this video. THANX I'm pretty sure it was the LLV version. Amazing. Finally a government agency that did one thing right with the LLV purchase.

[@patricklynch9574]

If your a mail carrier you can order a right hand jeep.

[@daninva6458]

My rural route carrier uses a RHD Wrangler, 08-10 by the look of it

[@dennisschmied236]

About 16 years ago, I worked for a military contractor company called VSE Corp. Worked on alot of army reserve equipment in our shop in the Midwest. There were alot of talks about acquiring the contract to redurbish the LLV with a newly designed motor that was in development for testing. I can't quite tell you the actual business side of it all, but what I can tell you is that VSE had purchased wheeler brothers, which is the company that does the parts for USPS and other companies. Now our army reserve side was furloughed and thr last that was heard is VSE was performing some of the LLV refurbs down south area. Now that was 2013ish and that's the last that was heard. I don't think the program lasted long, but VSE still has (had) wheeler brothers, so they are involved in alot of the helping of the existing LLV. Just giving you a idea for a part 2 as you dig the rabbit hole.

[@P_RO_]

Interesting subject. As a kid I remember the 3- wheeled versions being used in urban neighborhoods, and the mail Jeep is ubiquitous. First class stamps were a nickel and postcards went anywhere in the world for 3 cents; my how times have changed! The Grumman LLV, like the Checker Marathon taxicab, saw GM producing parts for them long after their own vehicles stopped using them. When GM stopped making the parts, the vehicles they were used on had to come to an end which is why new production of the LLV ended; Grumman and the USPS wanted more but they couldn't be built. Many Letter Carriers disliked the LLV for numerous reasons, but all people will tell you that it's as reliable a vehicle as has ever been made, and that they're pretty tough too.

[@nick_nt7574]

Finally, I now know what the mail truck is called after the LLV. It was a burning question I had for years.

[@timothyokane9710]

Our local mail trucks are Mercedes Benz Metra vans, and Grumman's although the new vans don't have a MB star on them.

[@GabrielSBarbaraS]

My mailman in Charlotte NC uses his personal vehicle, with a rope and pulley system he devised to make it a right hand drive. I asked him about the new electric mail trucks coming out with the regen braking and he said he likes his better. I am betting he gets paid per mile to use his personal vehicle plus his paycheck. Enjoyed your video Jon.

[@AllCarswithJon]

I asked mine about when they'd he'd be getting the new vehicles and he said "don't know". and that was it. He's a nice guy, but not talkative

[@russsyracuse8143]

I enjoyed this. Thank you. I was a carrier from 1972 to 2006. Loved the LLVs. Hated the jeeps. 😊

[@AllCarswithJon]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@mumwifeteacher]

The new mail truck looks like the pope mobile.

[@muznick]

Or an overgrown Fiat Multipla. In either case, it looks like a clown car.

[@melissacarterpresley5786]

@mumwifeteacher, For some reason, I seem to always find myself humming the theme song to the old inspector gadget cartoon when I see one.

[@mikehall3976]

Comical proportions.

[@audiemae9693]

I hate the Pope 😅 he's evil. I can't wait to get the new truck out trucks are always breaking down

[@GaryMP4.8]

You're going to see alot of those wheels up on thier roof. Stevie Wonder can tell that vechicle is incredibly top heavy.

[@zerocool5395]

I worked for a body shop doing alignments, had to align a mail truck once. You have to enter it on the computer as an S10, they're slow as Hell and it's really weird driving on the right side.

[@Steve-iw8yz]

The running gear and frame is all S10 with a wider rear axle I think 4x4 rear axle the only part not off the shelf S10 is the section of frame where steering box bolts if this section of frame is damaged it is totaled also damage to firewall othwise they fix them

[@ajwillett7302]

I work at a dealership in a rual area and I had to work on two mail carrier vehicles that were right hand drive. One was a 2016 jeep wrangler and the over was a 2019 jeep wrangler. One jk body style and the other the jl body style and let me tell you how weird it was to drive at highway speeds on the test drives on the right hand side. They were factory jeeps too.

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

Another well researched history video!! Keep up the great work!!

[@AllCarswithJon]

Glad you enjoyed it!!

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

@@AllCarswithJon looking forward to your next history video!!

[@PostalDog94]

Absolutely excited by this video! I'm glad to see good accurate content about the Grumman LLV getting made. Subscribed🎉 I'm already in love with your channel 😁

[@mumwifeteacher]

The moon lander was also made by same company.

[@christopherconard2831]

In 1995, due to production overrun, a small number of LLVs were available to the public. They are all registered as an S-10. There were some odd restrictions, like what colors you can paint them and that they cannot be used for any delivery service.

[@scottybrowndotca]

Had no idea those hilarious little mail trucks were on top of an S10 chassis .. I'm in logistics but didn't know how deep this rabbit hole really is ..!! We actually had some hybrids in our fleet about 10 years ago .. They were a Ford comm chassis and driveline - great idea, but the switch over from electric to ICE happened at about 20 km/hr (12 or 13 mph) which was super dangerous when making left hand turns with oncoming traffic (they would start moving, then there was a big lag as the engine came on) .. Nowadars we are piloting several fully electric models which employees seem to be pretty stoked about

[@gabrielv.4358]

Never seen these unique vehicles. So interesting. I find it quite fascinating as someone who lives in south america

[@henryrodgers7386]

What do they use for postal service down there?

[@davidbryden7904]

Growing up, one of my neighbors bought and restored a Cushman 'Mailster'.

[@HudsonGTV]

Sometimes the mail carriers use their own vehicles in my area sometimes with a yellow US Mail sticker on the back of their vehicle, and sometimes USPS magnetic stickers on the sides.

[@nonelost1]

4:05...Interesting! Under "Express Charges", letters sent via Pony Express weighing 1/2 oz or under were charged $1.00 back in 1860. In 2024, that would be $37.16! 5:23...Rural mailboxes were exactly the same in 1910 as they are now. Amazing!

[@SamCyanide]

One of my Japanese friends sent a photo of just a normal Ford Transit van with a USPS style livery on it for a clothing store. It's interesting how we take it for granted but to other cultures it can be interesting

[@YukariAkiyama]

A ford transit… in Japan?

[@KevinWindsor1971]

Interestingly, Capital District (206-209 zip codes) in Maryland, where I used to work, refused to get FFV's when they first came out around 2000. They didn't want to have to carry parts for a second delivery vehicle. When I moved to Baltimore District (zips that start with 210-219), almost all the RHD vehicles for the city carriers were FFV. The LLV's were mainly on rural routes.

[@KevinWindsor1971]

The '87-92 with the Iron Duke 2.5l the exhaust runs on the right, and the catalytic convertor is under the driver's feet. There is no heat shielding. The floor temperature can get super hot in the summertime. The 2.2l has the exhaust on the left. The 2.2's have had their share of head gasket failures.

[@Caylee319]

Just to add to your list of local delivery vehicles that the US Post Office used, in the early 1980s they also used Ford Pintos. They were standard left-hand drive with the passenger seat removed. I remember seeing several of those when I was a kid. They had square headlights, so they were probably all 1980 models.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Cool. Thanks!

[@trolleychai]

Surprised that you didn't mention the RHD vans made by Mercedes (part of their Metris lineup). That's about all we have in our part of New Jersey. They first appeared about three or four years ago and seem to be pretty reliable.

[@edwardpearce1138]

I was a rural carrier for 16 years before retiring. I mostly drove Chevy Celeberities and Olds Cieras. I could easily sit on the right hand side and still reach the peddles and steering wheel on the left. Being front wheel drive they could pull thru places that a LLV or DJ Jeep would get stuck, provided I was not dragging bottom. I would often drive thru six inches or more of water. The Jeeps were bad about rusting out and also prone to turning over. I understand a lot of the LLVs caught fire due to a design flaw in how the gas line was run. Ford Tauruses were good also, altho I only drove one of them once or twice.

[@325xitgrocgetter]

Our local USPS uses the Grumman LLV primarily. They are being supplemented by a right hand drive Mercedes Metris van. I spoke with one of the delivery drivers who said the Mercedes was infinitely more comfortable. He was worried about the stigma of the Post office using a Mercedes. I said that in other parts of the world, Mercedes is known for fleet and commercial vehicle, versus their status as a luxury vehicle in the US. I believe the Metris delivery vehicles have the Mercedes logos removed though. .

[@calebscott2040]

As someone who works on the vehicles for a living doing on site maintenance contracted through the post office. The older LLVs are a interesting to work on to just say the least there usually in pretty poor condition due to there age. But there some of the most high mileage vehicles I’ve ever seen I’ve seen several on over 800,000 miles(I’m not sure if the original engines but when looking under the hood it sometimes looks like it). But I do see many Mercedes metris aswell and ford transits. By far the most complained about post office vehicles I’ve heard from VMF mechanics are the Metris and FFV. The FFV becuase the engine got a redesign during the production at some loin and use a different size oil filter. The metris because it’s a European car and form what I’ve herd simply isnt durable enough for the kind use those vehicles get. The video was great and it was cool to see more information about the history of these vehicles.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks so much for the comment and kind words!

[@Ron-n2o]

I'm really surprised that you didn't mention the Cushman "Mailster", which was very common for a few years in the 1960s. They turned out to be unreliable and unsafe to drive, so they were phased out in favor of the Jeep "Dispatcher". But at one time the USPS had as many as 17,000 "Mailsters", made by several different companies. I haven't found a list of all the manufacturers-- Wikipedia calls it a "Westcoaster", but the ones I saw in Wisconsin were made by Cushman.

[@TalenGryphon]

Cushman? So it was a 3 wheeled monstrosity that fell over on every corner? Glad those weren't around when I worked for the Post Office. With the way I drive I would have effing *died*

[@AllCarswithJon]

While I didn't mention it by name, I believe you'll find it at 06:21 where I talk about the variety of different vehicles the mail service tried out in the 60s! ;)

[@TomPauls007]

Yup - the ole “meter maid” cars. Too tiny, but economical.

[@larrylaffer3246]

The concept was sound but the execution was botched. Perhaps if they had been 4-Wheeled instead of 3-Wheeled like a golf cart or a John Deere Gator 4X4; They'd have worked as intended. That being a way for postal carriers to haul lighter loads more efficiently and quickly than on foot. Saving the full sized vehicles for bigger parcels/larger routes.

[@cbrue1896]

Fascinating subject, especially since I am in the delivery business. The LLVs truly lived up to their name. Amazingly, its underpinnings are the humble S-10 Blazer! It's my understanding that some of them were converted to run on CNG. It's also interesting that the USPS and Amazon have gone similar routes by having vehicles designed specifically for their own use. While I have not driven the EDV (The name for the Amazon Rivian vehicle), I have been in them several times and they are perfectly mated to Amazon package delivery. Hopefully, the USPS vehicle will perform the same or even better than the Rivian. Fantastic video, Jon. Thank you for this excellent video!

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks so much for the kind words. I've been sweet-talking my local Amazon guy. They recently got the EDV and I think I've almost got him convinced to let me shoot a super-short video walk-around of one. He absolutely loves his.

[@ianperkins8812]

I've been looking forward to this one. Nice, thanks!

[@AllCarswithJon]

Hope you enjoy it!

[@ianperkins8812]

@@AllCarswithJon I did very much enjoy it. I had forgotten that the Grumman LLV came out just a few years after the venerable HUMMWV (High Utility Multi-Mission Wheeled Vehicle, AKA "HumVee" - I drove one of those in the Army at that time). My own postal carrier drives an LLV, but I am not sure which variant. I never paid that much attention to it, other than to marvel how long those vehicles have been on the road. My kind of vehicle - "runs fine, lasts a long time".

[@Infrared73]

I know there are likely a bunch of prototype vehicles that existed. I recently saw a video about the Grumman Kubvan of which I guess 500 were tested by the USPS and helped them settle on the design of the LLV. Its drivetrain was based on a VW Diesel Rabbit.

[@justinfusco6121]

There's an old Grumman factory near me on Long Island. It has been converted to a soundstage, (still called Grumman) for shooting TV / Film

[@AllCarswithJon]

Cool!

[@catlover15301]

Little known fact about the Grumman Llv, while basically underpinnings of a S-10. Even the steering wheel says Chevrolet, however instead of using the one sided GM keys of the time, they used Chrysler 2 sided keys. So it doesn't matter which way you put the key in.

[@filanfyretracker]

given the USPS is a delivery service I would not be shocked if the two sided key was due to them finding seconds got wasted doing the key flip flop(for the kids out there think of how you always have to try twice for a USB while flipping it around).

[@TapeCity]

In my area (Columbus Ohio) there's mostly Mercedes vans or dodge mail trucks now with random dodge minivans, Chevy minivans, Ive seen one or 2 LLVs about but I think most got retired in 2020-2022.

[@jimeagle1155]

I remember back a while ago they used Ford Pintos. I knew a girl who bought one when the post office sold them off in the late 80's. She spray-bombed it pink and it was hideous.

[@jimeagle1155]

Update. I Google searched it and AMT model company actually makes a model kit of a us Mail Ford pinto..lol. so they were more common than I thought

[@blues03]

I wanted to join the Post Office to drive LLVs. Now I drive a different delivery truck.

[@tjhess2]

We have the new Mercedes vans for delivery. In fact, they are outfitted in the Charleston metro area (Moncks Corner) by Knapheide. Their lot is huge and packed full of vans waiting for outfitting. Nearby, there is a storage lot of these vans that literally goes as far as the eye can see. There has to be thousands of those vans sitting waiting to be outfitted. As for the vans themselves, I can't see how a Mercedes is going to last 20 years and be economical to maintain.

[@AllCarswithJon]

The Mercedes vans are just a stop-gap as I understand until the production of the NGDV ramps up but as some of those old LLVs just can't limp along any more. I left a mention of them out of the video simply because I totally underestimated how many were out there in service. I thought it was "a few", but comments like yours have convinced me the real numbers are much, much higher! Thanks for the comment, and I love the Charleston area. Have a desire to move to Summerville in future years!

[@tjhess2]

@@AllCarswithJon I didn't realize the Mercedes was a plug in the dam, but that makes sense now. The Metris is also made here in North Charleston, so logistically, manufacturing and outfitting can occur in the same area. If you ever need information about the area, I'm more than willing to help. I've been in law enforcement in this area since 2004.

[@AllCarswithJon]

@@tjhess2 Appreciate it! My step-son is stationed (for now) down there so we visit somewhat frequently. :)

[@cwilson2693]

This was more educational than the actual car qualification class we had to take before we can deliver the mail. Thank you for making this video. 💌

[@AllCarswithJon]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@MikeS91712]

4:39 That is the Post office branch I've worked at for 20 years, albeit not in that building for many, many years.

[@MillerMeteor74]

There are old LLVs still in service around here (Atlantic County, NJ). But there are also some kind of brand new minivans as well.

[@jaakkoiswatching6437]

That is one strange bendy mailbus at 6:17. Bends only laterally, not into the curve.

[@AllCarswithJon]

But did you notice the rear-wheel steering????

[@jaakkoiswatching6437]

@@AllCarswithJon I did. That makes the biggest effective rear overhang ever when turning.

[@jamesford2942]

The LLV was built on the two wheel drive chassis with a four wheel drive rear end hence the different track width front and rear.

[@77gmcnut]

It's time for the USPS to tighten it's belt. Starting with ditching Saturday delivery. Junk mail is subsidizing first class mail.

[@johngaller278]

Studebaker Zip Van. A favorite of mine.

[@zi0cat]

At Grumman we were proud to win the LLV and deliver on our promises

[@draggonsgate]

When I was a kid, our address began with RFD#1... I've never had an actual postal vehicle for mail delivery. I'm in a rural area, and we've always had it delivered by our postal clerk using their personal vehicles. Before they got rid of bench seats, they'd just drive from the passenger seat, now, they just go up the wrong side of the road. Never understood why they didn't use electric vehicles either, it makes perfect sense. You don't need a lot of power, it's stop and go with a fairly short route. It's too bad they couldn't use the Chevy Bolt or some othe small EV as a base, of course, being unibody it would be difficult.

[@marzinjedi6437]

Dad once said that a Willys jeep and a mail truck were the most different sounding vehicles on earth 🌍 because of their designs and body shape and simplicity !

[@garbagemailtrucksandbuseso8685]

0:00 thanks for the shout out

[@AllCarswithJon]

You're welcome! Thanks for being here!

[@Redbird45]

The mail people in my area don’t even use vehicles they just walk 😂

[@CAROLDDISCOVER-1983]

THEY STILL USE THESE. IRON DUKE AND EVERYTHING AS FAR AS THE ENGINE. AND JUST LIKE IN THE FIERO AND OTHER VEHICLES THAT STILL CATCHES ON FIRE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🚒🚒🚒

[@mimelio]

The Iron Duke was a great reliable engine...I am sure the long life vehicles came with a metal camshaft gear and not that dreaded fiber one that sheds teeth at 85,000 miles or so.

[@Anthony-kc3eu]

Over by me in northern Illinois they are using those smaller Mercedes vans

[@g-mang-man7924]

Grumman LLV. Based on the S Series trucks, that were re-engineerd and downsized from the 1964 GM mid sized full framed cars. No, not the same parts, but from the original design. Pretty cool.

[@cavalierliberty6838]

The mailcat

[@philipdove6987]

I collect stamps and postal history and learnt something about the early postal systems, I'd love to know if anyone knows exactly how delivery of Pauls epistles would have been organised. the mail trucks show how the size and lack of population density make the USPS delivery systems so different to Royal Mail in Britain

[@georgeOswald-j6o]

that DJ5 military style mail jeep you buy from the government for about $250 back in 1990s

[@Bethany_mo]

My local mail lady drives several different vehicles regularly. The typical mail van, a left drive 90s Subaru, 80 Jeep and some 80s mini van. I have no idea why she uses so many different vehicles

[@dylanlindsay1993]

the city i live in still uses some of those llvs

[@Lardzor]

Someone should make a documentary: 'Who Killed the Electric Mail Truck'.

[@DCJNewsMedia]

Great video. Ty so very much Brother 😊😊

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks! Appreciate you!

[@DCJNewsMedia]

Yes sir

[@natehill8069]

I always figured suburban mail delivery was the best use case for a commercial electric vehicle (like the Kurbwatt) since they rarely go fast (which is an EVs worst talent) and do stop-and-go continuously (which they are great at) and they burn no* fuel while the operator sits at a mailbox moving stuff about. *other than heat, air, radio etc which runs continuously by time versus by distance but is trivial compared to propulsion.

[@randyfitz8310]

I’ve also seen RHD Subarus in USPS use.

[@russsyracuse8143]

Popular with rural carriers who must supply their own vehicles.

[@tkskagen]

Back in 2006 I worked for (Goodyear) a Tire Store while obtaining my Masters in Environmental Engineering. We had the "County Contract" for USPS. These "rigs" were just V-6 Chevy S-10s that were not maintained at all! What a shifty bunch of crap, given the government only paid ~47% of the bill...

[@larry648]

They still use LLVs here. Some of them are on their fourth engine and chassis rebuild. Hey really look like hell. No heat, no A/C, the only safety feature is the seat belt. We can drive vehicles like this today, but it’s good enough for Postal employees😮

[@michaelguerin56]

Thank you. Good video. Nice to hear someone correctly pronouncing Willys instead of saying ‘willeez’. Thurn is actually pronounced ‘turn’.

[@AllCarswithJon]

I've heard Willys both ways in my life, and if you watch enough of my videos I'm sure I'll say it the other way eventually! But for me, I've always remembered to so it the way that sounded like it was wrong! lol!

[@michaelguerin56]

@@AllCarswithJon The Willys television commercials and promotional films make it pretty clear. The three spellings of this surname- Wyllys, Willys and Willis- do create confusion.

[@muznick]

Those LLVs would make great work beaters for small businesses.

[@TalenGryphon]

Buddy of mine has an LLV he uses on his job as an electrician. The reliability of that Iron Duke 4 cylinder is becoming a problem, but it's been pretty solid overall

[@muznick]

I would V-8 swap mine. @@TalenGryphon

[@landnnut]

You should have talked about the the Mercedes with the mail eagle grill. Those are the most common where I live.

[@k-getrengganis7401]

In my opinion, refit the LLV into a hybrid electric or hybrid hydraulic with either a Volkswagen 1.9TDI diesel engine or any diesel or any petrol engine. So, the driver could send mails to neighbourhoods with electric or hydraulic power and when come back to base, use the diesel engine or petrol engine so he/she could recharge it and ready for another trip. Also, the bodywork needs to be repaired so it could handle newer electronics without make the driver scary of it would caught fire or short-circuiting. Then the tires, suspensions, brake system, and other mechanical things also repaired or refit with another that's better.

[@howebrad4601]

Iron duke was mostly panned for its crudeness and lack of refinement, but they are actually very durable engines

[@AllCarswithJon]

It was a miserable engine. Loud, unrefined, not powerful. Drive one and compare with a Honda engine of the time. BUT, I do think it's unfairly perceived as "GM unreliable".

[@howebrad4601]

@@AllCarswithJon I'm a car collector with numerous cars from the 80s, GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc. I have 2 vehicles with the Iron Duke, and they have a majorly agricultural sound. Loud, crude, quite a bit of vibration, but.... they have been excellent reliability-wise and don't give me trouble. One of my dukes is the fastest starting engine I've ever owned. Literally I tap, and I mean just tap the key and it's running. Carbureted 1980 iron duke. With my Hondas, especially from the 80s, they are smooth and much more refined, but they have an absolute maze of vacuum hoses that takes a NASA scientist to make sense of. I've also had to replace head gaskets on the Hondas, and have never done one on my Iron dukes. It's really a pity that GM always rushed this stuff into production before they had all the fine tuning done. They really shot themselves in the foot. Good channel. I enjoy the videos!

[@stephenjackman6163]

Very interesting video! Who knew? The next modernization might be to update the postal personnel to less angry and vitriolic version.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Macgyver-ranch]

I wonder if Louis DeJoy put the brakes on the EV idea? Drill baby drill?

[@KOSMOS1701A]

yeah my mailguy still uses an LLV, not sure when it was made or what the specifics of it are though.

[@Sublette217]

The USPO / USPS used a tricycle design in Redlands, California, in the late 1960s-early 1970s.

[@grantlauzon5237]

I recently watched a video of a guy making a diesel electric (like the train) truck. I bet that would be an easy stepping stone before going full EV.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Well that's technology that's been done with cars before but never really caught on. GM did with the 2011 Chevy Volt and Ram with the new Ramcharger. I suspect we'll see a lot more of them in the future.

[@rt_goblin_hours]

Im surprised they didn't do awd given the needs for the USPS to always get there

[@conorgraafpietermaritzburg3720]

Most enjoyable thanks 😅

[@JohnSmith-zw8vp]

Speedy Delivery!

[@jamesonpace726]

Great story! A bit too deep on ancient history perhaps, but still. As a kid I wanted a Grumman, but even that was out of reach for poor me....

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks. I know the ancient history portion went long, but that was the cut-down version. I found it all very fascinating how similar and different the ancient world did the same thing. Unfortunately (or fortunately for you!) there's just not a lot of good pictures and video from 2000 years ago! :)

[@rythemzlatin]

Hey , photography wasn't easy back then 🤷‍♂️ It wasn't a common skillset for 1 person to both have "the EYE" to envision a scene , & ALSO be able to reverse-chisel the negative ! Then you had to find an artist to interpret THAT into multiple bas relief Positives for distribution , & maybe a _correction_ Artist skilled in PhotoRock !

[@AllCarswithJon]

@@rythemzlatin lol!

[@jeffreym.keilen1095]

What about the Studebaker Zip Van? Fun fact: the AM General Humvee was built in old Studebaker factories.

[@larry4fire]

The selection of Oshkosh for the NGDV was really fishy. The USPS tested prototypes from the different in a multi year durability test over actual routes. The USPS allowed Oshkosh to submit a secret bid for a vehicle that existed on paper only and was not involved in the durability testing. The other vendors were not made aware this and were never asked to submit bids for “super duper” mail vans that exist on paper only. Astoundingly, the USPS awarded the full contract to Oshkosh, not for the prototype that was tested, but for their secret paper van. Even more astounding was the USPS claimed the Oshkosh paper van would be cheaper to operate and maintain even though 90% of the Oshkosh vans used conventional ICE production and due to their larger size and having A/C, would have worse fuel economy than the existing 30+ year old LLV vans. Finally one vendor with an electric van claimed that they were eliminated from the competition for a defective electric parking brake system even though the USPS or the vendor’s engineers could find no evidence of a failure, meaning the driver more likely than not, simply forget to set the brakes. This vendor said they were never told they were eliminated and the USPS even asked for changes to the design after this accident happened. This vendor also claimed their prototype won the actual durability testing and also falsely claimed that the operating costs of the EVs were higher than the conventional ICE vans due to false and unsupported claim that it would cost over $3 Billion to electrify USPS facilities to operate electric vans. This despite the fact that a major US utility submitted a proposal to perform all the electrical, both to the grid and to the USPS facilities to provide one Level 2 charger for every van for less than 1/3 of the USPS estimate. I believe the USPS and Oshkosh are scamming the American people.

[@vintageshed965]

This video tickles my -tism

[@dylanlindsay1993]

my mail man drives a ram promaster van!