A few points about MMA, traditional martial arts and real fights

[@scholagladiatoria]

I think if you find yourself wanting to click dislike on this video, then probably you haven't understood what I was trying to say (or maybe I didn't explain my argument clearly). In short I'm saying this: all martial arts suffer limitations when it comes to real combat situations and MMA is no exception. Yes lots of traditional arts are very limited in their scope as martial arts, but MMA also has limitations - the most obvious one is the lack of dealing with weapons. In a real world defence context, that is a gaping hole.

scholagladiatoria Well, you'll always have people "disliking" your vids, that's the price for fighting against the champions :p

[@Brandon_Watson]

scholagladiatoria All Martial Arts, whether done for practice or sport, make sacrifices in the name of safety. The degree varies from system to system, but it will always exist unless we decide the only practical way to learn to fight is to always fight to the death.

[@LegionaryHunter]

scholagladiatoria As my Kung Fu teacher has said to me the first time that i asked what to do in a street fight. He said: Don't enter in fights if you enter, try finish it as fast as possible if not, run. In my thinking people should avoid fights at a possible level, not trying to pick fights because, in a real situation,someone is always at a disadvantage, that be in number or objects at hand.

[@lokuzt]

scholagladiatoria great video Matt! another fact that I would have added to it is that what we see in the MMA rings/octagons are mostly people who have excelled in their field above all others -not regular MMA fighters, but the cream of the crop. And even these professionals have trouble when facing armed opponents... just google Guy Mezger's hand injury when he was defending a woman from an assault

[@BloodstainedSinner]

scholagladiatoria If someone's a practitioner of MMA, they have trained (to perfection) in (typically) 3-5 different martial art styles. Chances are, one or all of those styles do in fact involve training with weapons to an extent. It's also that most all martial arts include training to disarm an armed opponent.

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

One point I find myself frequently making is that when training and competing in MMA, or pure BJJ, bouts often involve a great deal of time grappling on the ground, it's true. But when one person is significantly better at wrestling/grappling, it takes a very short amount of time to get into a dominant position from which to either submit, control, or disengage safely. The best way to prevent or defend against something is generally to train and understand it to a high level. So, while I agree that taking a fight to the ground by choice is often a terrible idea, having the skills that MMA, BJJ, Judo, wrestling, etc give you is going to let you stay off the in the first place, or get off the ground quickly if needed. That's where so many traditional martial arts, particularly those that train an almost purely _'stand-up'_ style, really have a huge gap in their techniques and training. Having trained Wing Chun, I have a lot of respect for its efficacy as a stand-up self defence style. But even as I trained it I was painfully aware that, as a style (and as it is typically taught, from all my observations and experience) it simply does not address the problem of dealing with take-downs or highly-skilled kickers. Ultimately that seems clearly to be the fundamental reason why so many traditional martial arts - Wing Chun in particular - are looked down on by people who train MMA (both in its broader sense, and as a _'style'_). On the flip-side, I think people who train MMA miss out on some valuable self-defence skills, especially the experience of striking without hand-wraps and gloves, and the tactics of fending off multiple attackers and being aware of your surroundings. MMA was developed in the context of a cage/ring fight, but Wing Chun was developed in the context of a society where leg kicks, double-leg take-downs, and ground-and-pound weren't (I believe) anywhere near as prevalent in street fights as they are today. I shall now duck the barrage of rotten fruit and vegies that I expect to be thrown my way for having credited Wing Chun as being useful. :)

[@ZiePe]

***** Before I trained MMA, I did wing chun and I agree that the lack of grappling is painful. Especially against poeple who are not trained grapplers and who nevertheless engage in grappling, submissions can be very useful, because most of the time, someone who is uneducated doesnt recognize a technique and thus doesnt defend adequately

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

***** I have to respectfully reject the notion that all of these traditional martial arts were ever _'complete'_, simply because it's not consistent with the historical context of any martial art, the practicalities of training, and definitely not consistent with how humans almost invariably do things. I just don't believe that every single _'complete'_ martial art has failed to survive, and the claims of so many modern martial arts schools to have a _'complete'_ style just adds to my doubt that any styles were ever legitimately complete. Certainly many modern schools teach a stripped-down version of the traditional practices - I'm not denying that. But I can't believe that even when those styles were practised in full they were complete. I think that's just wishful thinking. Sure, a traditional martial art - even if practised in its historical entirety - might feature a variety of throws, submissions, locks, etc, and they're going to be very effective in the context of self defence against a common assailant. But martial arts training generally can achieve depth, or breadth, but not both without cross-training, an open mind, and the opportunity to train with and against a diverse range of styles and physiques.

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

Inanc Arslaner _"If you and your partner cannot perform a great double leg takedown for example, you're not going to be able to learn how to defend yourself against it."_ Precisely. The modern world has brought together the best techniques from all styles, and that means techniques that were never originally factored into traditional martial arts, so trying to be _complete_ means adopting, at the very least, the common problem techniques from other styles. Glad to hear you're doing Wing Chun the right way for the modern world, by the sound of it. :)

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

***** _"There's no reason why traditional martial arts would deliberately refrain from training a certain field of combat, it just makes no sense."_ Now that we've had the UFC thrown in our face, and a chance to see all styles from across the globe, it doesn't make much sense. But if you go into a class - the more isolated from other martial arts, the worse it will probably be - you'll almost certainly find that the instructor is good enough to (mostly) nullify the weaknesses of training in a limited manner. Go into a Wing Chun class and the instructor is probably so good that he can actually defend against a take-down pretty damned well. Of course that's only if the take-down is from somebody with overall much less martial arts experience, and that's almost certainly the case. So it's not a true reflection of style against style, but rather the Sifu (with his likely 10-20 years' experience behind him) against somebody from another style with a fraction of the total training time and skill. So the students, and the Sifu, are convinced that the Sifu has the answers to the problem. Some new student who's also a BJJ white belt who's trained a year of BJJ asks, _"But how would you handle a double-leg take-down?"_, so the Sifu asks him to try, and the Sifu defends it, probably throwing in a flourish of (most likely not fight-ending) blows in the process, and it looks impressive. The white belt is probably (if he's actually there training Wing Chun legitimately, and not just trolling) either convinced, or skeptical but unable to bypass the Sifu's defences. So Wing Chun _holds up_ as a _'complete'_ style with take-down defence. At least they think so. Never mind that 99% of the students, with perhaps only a few years' training under their belt at best, probably couldn't defend against the BJJ white belt's take-down. In short, 3 major issues can prevent a martial art style from being complete in the first place: Firstly, reliance on mastery. After 20 years of training, your Wing Chun will be good enough to defend against any take-down, except, of course, a take-down by somebody with their own mastery. Which leads to... Secondly, ignorance. You can't train to defend against what you don't know, and if you're developing a martial art in the cultural confines of China, you probably haven't heard about half the other styles in the world, much less had any first-hand experience of them. Thirdly, the necessities and practicalities of life and time. As I mentioned earlier, you can generally practise breadth or depth, or some balance of the two, but it's not practical to practise both. I could dabble in 2 classes a week of BJJ, 1 of wrestling, 2 of Wing Chun, and 2 of Muay Thai, and I'd be training very broadly indeed, and exhausting myself (not to mention getting very poor). And if I somehow had the stamina, time, and money to manage training like that for a decade, I would be a phenomenally well-balanced fighter. And I'd still have gaps in my training because I wouldn't have top-level experience against Judoka, or the best Taekwon-Do/Karate kicks. And I'd be very good at all of those styles, but nowhere near as good at any as a dedicated student would be. The reality is, though, that this kind of cross-training was impossible before the globalised world we have now. Combine these three issues, and it's just not reasonable to expect that any martial art will be _'complete'_. The best it can hope to be is an ideal balance between completeness and specialisation to make it most effective for its context. That's what MMA is - a minimalist, optimal balance of core skills to do well in the ring. It is _'complete'_ as it can be, since specialising in one aspect means diminishing another, thanks to the constraints of practicality. Wow. I wrote a lot. :) Short story: _'Complete'_ styles don't exist in the context of all martial arts due to the practical limitations of time, money, opportunity, the human mind, and the human body. :)

[@bakters]

***** How are you supposed to "submit" someone in a streetfight? He taps and you let him go? Just curious.

[@brlbrlbrlbrl]

Context certainly matters. The problem is that traditional Asian martial arts have long been removed from theirs, and much of the systems we see taught today are distorted versions of combat styles that may have worked well in the time and place they were conceived in but have since lost their focus on actual fighting. It seems that over time many of the traditional systems seen in the west have passed through people who have never have been taught how to actually fight using their system, who then none the less went ahead and taught their interpretations of the moveset to others. This then continues without ever testing it in full-on sparring and hiding behind a veneer of mysticism, claiming that their art is so deadly it can't be used full speed against another person except in a life or death situation.

[@universalmartialartscenter360]

I'm sure that you've read enough manuals and history to understand that many cultures who fought with swords stressed that wrestling/grappling is the basis of all combat. The Spartans, Greek Hoplites, the Samurai, the Knights, etc all learned to grapple first.

[@jwkelley]

I agree with you but, MMA does give you an advantage in the fact you do get hit in the face and are a lot less likely fuck up given a tense situation. Moves are tested and work. Many traditional martial arts have not been used in a long time. They have been watered down by the art and have untested theory thrown upon them by people who sit and theorize about violent situations but never encounter them in real life. Many of these people could not make it through an MMA even with illegal moves allowed. Things like Krav Maga and system are decent but still suffer a little bit due to their hype factor, they tend to be packaged with random useless sht (systema punch for example). The best system tend to be those used by military or those designed for specific situations by people (bouncers cops special forces) who have use them in real fights.

[@idleeidolon]

I always thought that the argument wasn't that traditional martial arts were ineffective, it's that their training methods (katas, not much sparring, limited situations) take a lifetime to absorb. I think it was Bruce Lee who proposed the thought that martial arts whose training regimen involved more sparring (something closer to actual combat than katas) were more effective than ones that focused on training forms. This isn't to say that things like Tai Chi are less effective than Muay Thai, it's that you learn to become a fighter faster in the later because of actual interaction and competition, and not as much focus on form. The thing about MMA applications and training outside the sport situation/context, it's that it has a very "what works" mentality. It's willing to accept moves from whatever traditional martial art (eastern or western), as long as it works for the fighter, and it can be applied during sparring. Whatever traditional martial art it is, all it requires for a lot of MMA people to take it seriously, is for a fighter to use it effectively during a match. If a wing chun or an aikido practitioner does so in the future, it'll certainly turn heads. Heck even traditional karate was poo-pooed in MMA until Machida came along. People thought catch-as-catch-can japanese professional wrestlers were fake entertainers until Sakuraba. MMA people aren't close minded as if to conclude that no that martial art can't work. They're just guarded. They have a different mindset. They just won't accept your word over it. They have to see it work first. It's a very scientific, empirical approach. If you claim something, prove it first. "Someone with only a year of training in boxing and wrestling could easily defeat a martial artist of twenty years experience." --Bruce Lee

[@dalem04]

***** >aikido Small joint manipulation is specifically banned in the UFC. Finger or wrist locks are against the rules. I'm not saying the way most Aikido is practised is effective, but it would probably help if the majority of the techniques weren't banned.

[@SlurponMuhdickKillTheState]

dalem04 Because those bones are so easily broken. This is why Hapkido was one of my primary studies when I was a teenager. I also spent a few years studying Taekwondo so I would have effective pugilistic strikes.

[@CMLew]

dalem04 Wrist locks are not banned in the UFC. Only finger locks.

[@VictorChevrestt]

dalem04 Eye gouging, fish hooking, and small joint manipulation don't work if you can't secure a dominant position while grappling. If you can't beat a guy under the rules of MMA than you're chances aren't much better in any other fair and unarmed fight.

[@grsshppr7659]

***** So completely true about the need for sparring. One of the most appalling things I see constantly is the idea that martial arts (as trained today in nearly all systems) is a SELF DEFENSE. It isn't. I see small ppl learning "techniques" that will get them overpowered by anyone 30% larger than them 100% of the time, but they never learn this until they try to defend themselves. I see ppl who take 10 classes a month put in enough time to buy a black belt as if skill is a layaway program purchased with class fees and showing up in tidy whites to perform painfully awkward "forms" in front of a "master" who will promote them in order to keep the student paying fees. Even ppl who are serious about training can be very easily clueless and useless in a fight (tai chi forums are so full of this...). Any martial art that cannot or will not train you to a sparring level quickly and then emphasize that sparring IS the training should not be considered martial in the least, pretty much period.

[@alittlepuertoricanboy1993]

Karate does very well in MMA, actually. You're right, and I'll say this to anyone: On a basic level, do MMA for unarmed fighting. Or, rather, do a striking and a grappling art that trains alive and does a lot of sparring. From there, augment some weapons and firearms training whenever you can. The skills you learn doing MMA or unarmed sparring, like distance and timing, will help you tremendously in the others.

[@loyalsausages]

A nice, insightful video! The take-home message get is... embrace your MMA, but avoid the ground-game in the street and keep your distance till you know whether your enemy is armed or has friends... (Or, the most classic stance: Hit them hard, hit them fast, knock them out cold and GTFO before others have time to react to your threat.)

[@wakaka2waka]

The big thing about MMA and HEMA is TESTING. Full contact sparring and cross-training/testing is key. Any martial art that does not test itself in a full-pressure kind of way as well as testing itself versus various type of martial art system or weaponry is bogus. If a martial art has failed to respond to the challenge after repeated calls for it to do so is a bogus martial art. In other words, BULLSHIDO. Any MMA fighter can quickly be trained to twist groin, gouge eyes, etc... more effectively than any other traditional systems could because they TRAIN in live action. Therefore, they are much better at manipulating and predicting a resisting opponent to get a chance to grab at their sensitive areas. This can NOT be said of any traditional martial arts that do not constantly test itself against different types of opponents. Aikido and Chinese martial arts are the latter kind of bogus you can find. As a boxing, and wrestling system - neither of these have been proven to be in any shape or form effective. AND, as I mentioned in these comments once before - most of them are from some made-up dubious origin and most certainly started in the 19-20th century in the Han rebellion against the Manchus. This is why I opted for HEMA, because most, if not all, east asian weapons arts are bullshido. I've never found any live Kenjutsu sparring from an established school. HEMA excels in this and therefore should be considered one of the only legitimate schools of historical weaponry martial art.

[@wakaka2waka]

wakaka2waka Types of martial arts such as Wing Chun has repeatedly failed to answer the challenge. They have been repeatedly offered to fight in any setting they desire in addition to having no-bars hold rules if they so desire. They are completely rubbish at what they portray themselves to do. A boxer who is not even trained at defending against low kicks - usually a very effective counter against a boxer - is able to wipe the floor with the Wing Chunner after the initial confusion. This is because they don't even know how to use low kicks properly to hold the boxer at bay. They charge like idiots is what they do and they get their arses handed to them. WC can not even do what it is meant to do at a stand-up fight and has somehow made its low kicks rather useless. Do I have first-hand experience of WC? Yes, I do. And it was in Hong Kong - training under Yip Man's 2nd generation student in Causeway Bay and also one of the consultant for the Yip Man movies. So, this is the original unmodified art I was exposed to - without Western modification of its strategies. It was rubbish after I pealed away the first few moments of awe, machine-gun fist slaps. confusion and general mysticism. As for the ground comment, MMA (due to its wrestling components) trains you to get OUT of those situation in a safe way in case you have fallen - something NO traditional standing E. Asian martial art (any type of Karate, CMA, etc...) teaches you to. This is why you see TMAs turn into glorified babies once they have been taken to the ground. They can't even do what they're portrayed to do. Try to get back or stay on your feet so you can escape. Training in wrestling allows you to get back on your feet as quickly and safely as you can. So these arts are rubbish at standing and they're rubbish at getting back on your feet, and they're rubbish on the ground. The only thing left going for them is their mysticism and their "oh so deadly"s. Imagine if a rapierist proclaims himself to be the best at their art and refuse your challenge to duel him because "My thrusts are too deadly for such trifle affairs! They are too powerful!" and turns you down. Then he turns around and proclaims himself to be the best at the area. Excuse my language, but fuck him. WC, although it has a knife-sword and spear component, is not even designed against any weaponry defense in their standing area. You have A) Weapon Training B) Some sort of Kickboxing - and no cross-training between A and B. I will stick with Thai boxing, boxing, wrestling and HEMA. Thank you very much.

[@scholagladiatoria]

wakaka2waka I do agree with this :-)

[@Zeppelin616]

wakaka2waka It always annoys me when people think they could take mma fighters because they don't practice eye gouging, groin kicks and so on. Seriously, how do you think these people would fare in an eye-poking competition with Jon Jones? Or a groin kicking match with Lyoto Machida? People that dedicate their lives to fighting (or as close as you can legally get to it) would easily dispatch your average TKD black belt, who most likely hasn't even taken a punch to the face, because they don't practice that.

[@Sifuben]

Staying on your feet is probably the definitive skill in elite level MMA

[@christopherfassett9973]

Some types of FMA can also be very useful at integrating unarmed combat with small bladed weapons in multiple contexts that are likely to be experienced in a modern urban environment.

[@NovaScotiaNewfie]

Christopher Fassett often Special Operations will learn FMA or at least components of them.

[@KungFuJoeMarino]

No one is more cognizant of the dangers of fighting on the ground than those of us who spend the majority of our training fighting on the ground. The "rolling around on the floor" comments are just as ignorant and dismissive as if someone were to describe fencing as "swinging swords around."

[@KungFuJoeMarino]

***** I am a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt who teaches and trains with professional fighters-- including fighters in the UFC, the biggest promotion in MMA. I also happen to teach in a beach town on the Jersey Shore, where we are intimately familiar with the increase in violence associated with Summer-time drunks. Once again, no one is more cognizant of the dangers of fighting on the ground than those of us who spend the majority of our training fighting on the ground. People who have never trained in proper grappling (and it seems that +scholagladiatoria belongs to this group) tend to vastly underestimate just how little they understand about grappling. Long, prolonged ground fighting occurs only when both of the people on the ground understand HOW to fight on the ground. The average Summer-time drunken tourist picking a fight is not going to be someone who understands how to fight on the ground. He will not know how to put a trained grappler on the ground. He will not know how to hold a trained grappler on the ground. He will not know how to attack a trained grappler on the ground. Once again, as someone who has trained in MMA for a long time, with teammates and students who are professional fighters, living in an area where Summer tourists very often pick fights for little or no reason, I can assure you that our skills translate far better to real-world fighting than Matt seems to realize.

[@croatianwarmaster7872]

+Joe Marino This,a 4 stripe white belt would submit a drunk in like a minute,the reason mma fighters stay on the ground so long is because they are both highly skilled in grappling.

[@chaos_omega]

Matt, you should know better! You train in a martial arts style that actually spars, unlike most wing chun schools (at least not hard enough to get any sense of real combat.) I think the Dog Brothers have it right. They train in MMA-type techniques as well as weapons, (mostly rattan sticks, but also aluminum training knives, and other weapons). All of their techniques are tested at their gatherings where full contact weapons fighting takes place (with VERY light protection.) Their 'Die Less Often' material is eye-opening, and is indeed a knife defence that includes grappling. Stepping out of a ring and into the street doesn't magically take away your fighting skills, there is only a time and place to use them. MMA is the best training for 1-1 unarmed fighting, and even then, it still has it's use in real combat situations. If someone large tackles you, lands on top of you and he has friends about to kick your dome inside out, the fastest ways to get to your feet will all come from hours of mat time-- rolling around on the ground. I'm not saying you have to be a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but gaining that kind of ability will involve more than a couple seminars or visits to a BJJ school. And vice versa for any BJJ or MMA people wanting to learn weapons. Firearms training included. Being a well-rounded warrior is a full time job!

[@chaos_omega]

I'd also like to mention that a long protracted grappling fight isn't likely to happen on the street-- unless your opponent is also a skilled grappler. The skill disparity would allow you to end it quickly (and also without beating on them. Strangleholds are pretty efficient!) That being said, learning weapon skills should still be a priority... Though the most important and overlooked aspect to self-defence, I think, is *self-awareness.* Keeping your wits about you, taking in your surrounding instead of day dreaming (guilty), observing what the people around you are doing and what they have in their hands. This might not be easy to teach, but I think it should be said more often.

[@Ottuln]

If you are serious about self-defense martial arts, you should be doing something that uses a concealed weapon of some kind, whether it is a knife, a collapsible baton, pepper spray or a pistol. When it hits the fan, whether you are against a single attacker or a group, having a weapon you are trained to use pushes the odds in your favor.

[@Ottuln]

White Void Good luck with carrying that on a daily basis. Which part of my statement are you refuting? That weapons increase your defensive effectiveness? Considering the proximity that self-defense issues occur, I doubt a grenade launcher would be an effective defense tool in any case.

[@brottarnacke]

Wreqt The problem with that is that it pushes the odds of you ending up in a federal "pound me in the butt" prison in your favor.

[@GunFunZS]

brottarnacke Not really true. Self defense law in USA (implied since you said federal) is based around Justified force, or not justified force, not the nature of the tools used to exert that force. Also, it would be state law applied, not federal. (Clue #1 that your knowledge of our legal system is anecdotal.) The other big break point is intentional/ not intentional. Those are the things that matter in court, not whether you started with something practical like a pistol. It is true that if you are not justified to use force, using lesser force without a weapon is likely to reduce the severity of your sentence. But that's assuming you don't actually severely harm your opponent with your unjustified force. If you slam someone's head into something hard as you are grappling, or do and arm bar and break their arm, you are in the same felony territory.

[@bakters]

Wreqt I was in a fight against a group when I had a knife on me. I never reached for it and I survived with minor injury. What if I did reach for it? Would I find, to my "surprise", that a few of them had knifes too? Or maybe they would just run away to mama crying? I will never know that, and honestly I can live with it.

[@Ottuln]

bakters And what if they had pulled knives and you didn't have one on you. I carry a knife everywhere I go, but I would very likely not pull it out in the situation you describe, unless I felt it was to save my life. Not carrying the knife means I don't even have the option, and carrying a knife with no training is basically giving your attacker a weapon.

[@WardancerHB]

I want a video in which Matt just states: "Context!" over and over again for 2 and a half minutes. In a lot of Internet discussions a link to that video would help a great deal! :-)

[@LordLeovuldMeadowgrove]

I do so love the word context. You do not always want to grapple, if there is a blade involved, no matter how good a grappler, you might think you are. I cannot believe I have to add 10 people to my special list. Wish me good hunting my tonight little broodlings.

[@Daysleeper1990]

I think in the end MMA is probably your best bet for all around self defense because you're studying sort of the best of all worlds and I don't see why a practitioner of Muay Thai and BJJ couldn't also pick up defense techniques in regards to weapons from other martial arts. I think where the problem comes in from traditional martial arts is that they are limited in their scope in ways both sparring and practical application which is something even Bruce Lee pointed out back in the 1960s and 70s when he started to branch out and form Jeet Kune Do. For most in MMA it seems to be about learning which techniques are the most effective from any given martial art and incorporating those into your own style. Even martial arts that many think won't work in the cage can be incorporated such as Lyoto Machida and his karate background (though recently he hasn't been doing very well) in the end I'd rather do what most MMA fighters do and train for pretty much everything.

[@Robert399]

***** well if self-defence is what you're looking for, something like Krav Maga is probably your best bet

[@grsshppr7659]

Robert R Systema is really good as well.

[@grsshppr7659]

***** The problem also is the tradition in traditional martial arts. Most student accepting ceremonies involve swearing to uphold the purity of a master's system and to defend it (not physically of course, that would actually work to demonstrate effectiveness). Result: a constant process of simultaneous watering down of effectiveness with strengthening of system propaganda.

[@kragguthbag-braggle4961]

>actually recommending Krav Maga Nice one there friend :^)

[@rpontonjr]

***** MMA itself is going a little down the sport path, especially with the rise of "MMA" gyms. Very important to find a self-defense focused gym rather than a sport gym, if self-defense is what you're after.

[@BrvtusVG]

I think a point that kind of gets passed over or dismissed by non-Chinese people pretty often when talking about Chinese martial arts is that they haven't been used or taught practically to any extent for a very long time. Chinese martial arts has always had a strong relationship with philosophy and as such has fulfilled an entirely spiritual role for over a century. These days in China they are pretty much only practiced by the elderly for health and spirituality. What this basically means is that Chinese martial arts haven't been developing scientifically in the same way that MMA and other contemporary martial arts have. All the fiction surrounding kung fu is exactly that - a collective fiction, one with a long and important tradition in Chinese storytelling, that pretty much everybody acknowledges as fictitious. At the end of the day, I think that comparisons between MMA and a lot of traditional martial arts systems is kind of meaningless, because those systems no longer fulfill the same functions - instead, they are formalized disciplines of history and spirituality.

[@resurrectedstarships]

I sorta agree but mostly disagree since there are so MANY forms of chinese martial arts and many of them are very practical for modern times. I'll name some! Praying mantis (northern or southern), hung gar, wing chun (if used in close quarters mostly defensively), choy li fut, southern crane, sui jiao (grappling), and many others. Sport wushu is theatre, and so is the stuff they are doing in the modern shaolin temple - they do badass things but have little to no application, or the applications are forgotten.

[@iopklmification]

I agree with you mostly, but I'd like to add some thoughts : - The self-defense sports or systems often lack the fitness element of a real fight. Like you said, one of the most important thing is to be able to run away, well you can't do that without some cardio training. Yes you can run on your own, but boxing or any martial arts with actual fights (instead of scripted situations) will teach you how to use your energy effectively AND give you cardio training at the same time. - Also learning to receive hits and some pain is a very useful skill, no self-defense system can prevent you from being hit 100% of the time, especially in a group fight. - A "real fight" taken to the ground by a MMA fighter will be much much quicker than the average MMA fight, because 1) the other guy won't have MMA fighting on the ground experience 2) the MMA fighter can aim to break an arm or a wrist which will be far quicker than the submission holds of competition. With that said, it is still a bad idea to go to the ground against a group of opponents and 90% (just made this stat up but I think it's legit) of "real fights" aren't 1v1.

[@MartinGreywolf]

iopklmification If you are doing even tai chi in a martial oriented fashion, as opposed to just stretching, you pretty much have cardio right there. Take one look at any wushu competition (they are the easiest to find) and tell me there's no cardio there. If you're doing any martial art without physical fitness in there, you're doing it wrong - sadly, many mostly asian MAs fell prey to easy marketing... Learning to recieve hits, yeah maybe. Danger lies in thinking, oh I can just tank the one punch to get a KO and then finding out the cheeky bugger pulled out a brass knuckles. As for taking to the ground, pretty much all people who ever trained people for any kind of soldiering agree that you should avoid it at all costs. No amount of armchair arguments by anyone can really trump that - if it was practical, it would have been done. Consequently, it seems that ground fighting was a skill that was very, very situational, albeit still useful.

[@pahwraith]

MartinGreywolf It's mostly about not flinching while being punched, the little ways to slip and block punches while sitting in the pocket, knowing and actually learning to keep your guard up (a sharp punch will *teach* you to keep your hands up real fast), also learning that you have to hit back during a flurry to stop it, untrained people with turtle up and turn their back to a flurry of hits, its instinctual. You've got to break those habits and the only way to do it, is live full contact sparring.

[@MartinGreywolf]

pahwraith At this point, it kinda depends on who exactly is teaching the thing in question. You can get crap teacher for both MMA and TMA. As for full contact sparring, there really is no such thing. If you don't want to actually hurt the other guy, there'll always be things you won't do. MMA simply doesn't teach you to deal with them - because it doesn't have to, it's a sport. Ultimately, claiming that MMA or any other sport, or traditional martial art, is what you should learn for self-defence is dishonest at best. There are martial arts designed for modern self-defence and tested in action, go and learn those.

[@goatstoe3980]

Saying that the majority of mma fights are grappling for most if the fight says to me he doesn't watch a lot of mma

[@manz92]

One of the best videos on the topic and I suspect that is because you have no bias toward any martial art. So well done.

[@23561avatar]

I mostly agree with Matt. MMA isn't the ultimate combat system and it falls short in some respects. That said, the biggest problem with many traditional martial arts is, in my experience, that they are not always as hardcore in their training methods. Consequently, nonsense techniques are less likely to be weeded out, and you are generally less prepared for a real, aggressive attack. Apart from context, I think this is another reason for MMA's effectiveness: its fighters train seriously.

[@willabby585]

The butthurt is astounding. He didn't dismiss MMA or any other martial art as garbage, and he didn't say HEMA was the best. He said, quite clearly, "Context is important." Being on the ground is a good strategy in MMA, but it'll get your head caved in on the street. Listening comprehension, Jesus Christ.

[@hugoguerreiro1078]

Will Abby "The butthurt is astounding." Very true. MMA drones love to trashtalk anything that isn't used often in the octagon, but completely flip out when you remind them the octagon is different to real life. And I'm saying this as a fan of MMA.

[@willabby585]

Hugo Guerreiro I tried talking to one, but he was one of the insufferable twats who are completely incapable of having a casual debate. Rather than a conversation he wanted data that simply doesn't exist. It's like playing chess with a pigeon . No matter how good you are it'll just knock the pieces over, shit on the board, and strut around like it's accomplished something.

[@hugoguerreiro1078]

Will Abby Yup, I bet most didn't even watch the whole video. He spends half the video saying context matters, and then people's arguments are "oh but in this context MMA is better/worse". Yes, that is why context matters.

[@willabby585]

Listening comprehension is a lost art apparently.

[@yvesgomes]

+Will Abby Saying context is important is not enough in this case. Do you think saying that would make everything correct? It usually does when he say it. Context being the explanation is also a matter of context. ;) In this context, it's not enough. It's like he is declaring a tie, except MMA tests things and the other stuff doesn't. And why would you dissmiss disagreements as "butt hurt"?

[@wilowhisp]

There's another observation I've made about a weakness of mma that I don't hear mentioned too often. I've trained in many arts including mma for 28 years, when I was in my early 20s at my prime I was as tuff as spring steel and could deliver and take quite a beating. Now... Not as much. Mma relies on a level of conditioning that is well worth training for but hard to take with you into old age. Sure there's old dudes who can run an ultra marathon but let's be real that ain't most of us. I have a family, a job, and other hobbies; I'm still in good shape but I can't spend all day conditioning and training. Ideally a martial art can grow old with you and still be effective. It's one of the reasons I like to do a lot of knife training.

[@xThatxOtherxGuyx]

I love the way to talk about Martial Arts. I've practiced Capoeira and one thing that is always annoying is is people saying it would never work in a real fight. But the reason it looks the way it does is because of the context in which it was created and the culture around it.

[@resurrectedstarships]

I totally agree! That' why i just LOVE hung gar kung fu and filipino martial arts, Hung gar teaches really strong powerful (STAY ON FEET) stances that are much harder to knock over. FMA teach sticks, daggers, disarms, standing locks, and close range stuff. These are both great in environments such as docks, boats, jungles, farms, a moving bus or subway maybe, and the reality that people do carry knives, among other things.

[@PalookaD]

Totally agree with Matt. To a great extent the value of all martial arts in the respect of self-defence is the same, through exposure and training to limit the debilitating effects of a massive adrenaline dump and retain control in a confrontation and teach you to run away where ever possible. Generally speaking if an altercation escalates into violence its very bad news, the variables are huge. Grappling is fantastic and I'd certainly not wish to brawl and grapple with an experienced fighter as I don't have the technique or fitness for it and would lose quickly, which is great for my opponent...until my mate kicks them in the face as hard as they can. All systems have value and use, and to deride forms and techniques with huge pedigree is foolish and unbecoming. The blend of modern MMA is fantastic as a combat sport that has many useful applications in self-defence, and has quickly distilled the most effective elements of many others in respect of the martial element, but it is no more valid than any other. The fact is if you get into a fight you are in serious trouble be it BJJ, Akidio, Boxing, Karate etc..... a determined man with a knife will likely kill you.

[@Arafax]

My understanding of Wing Chun was that it was originally designed for women to protect themselves against larger opponents. Most of the Southern Chinese styles tend to be very focused on standing stably and avoiding jumping around and kicking much if at all.

[@chriscaruso1]

Sensei says, "There are no superior martial arts, only superior martial artists."

[@cellsec7703]

that was deep bro

[@MarQueseDLiddle]

I think Matt was right on in this video. Small changes in rules dramatically change who will win a fight. Techniques that target vulnerable areas of the body (eye, throat, groin, side of the knee, etc) are banned in many cage fights. If they weren't, the fighters would very likely suffer permanent injury. The ban alters what will be effective and what won't. I think there is another aspect of context that was not touched upon, and it is time spent training. Certain styles and techniques require more training to successfully perform than others, and some take years of practice to be able to do consistently in a sparring situation. In the modern day, we generally don't devote our entire lives to learning a martial art, and so some techniques may never work for us as they may have for the people would claim to have used them in the past.

[@ibeenthere]

I am a 20 something years martial artist (Kyokoshin karate - black belt, Muay-Thai, Kick-boxing, classical boxing, Jujitsu and Israeli Krav Maga) and I approve this message :)

[@johnharvey5412]

If the street fight in question is 1v1 with no weapons, I would think grappling would be much better IRL than in the octagon because you can slam the other guy onto pavement and pound his head into the curb. If you've got him in a mount position, every movement he makes to escape is going to hurt him as he squirms around on rough blacktop and broken glass. A takedown or a hip throw on a padded floor might stun for a moment, but doing the same on a concrete sidewalk is likely to break bones. This is one specific CONTEXT, but it's an important one, and training to deal with weapons and multiple opponents is also important.

[@farmerboy916]

Quite right that effective grappling may be very effective when trained, one on one, and both unarmed, but I think the assumption is that they always MIGHT have a friend(s) or a knife/ weapon.

[@johnharvey5412]

farmerboy916 That's a fair point. Expect the unexpected, and all that.

[@pahwraith]

farmerboy916 I feel like judo throws underrated, a trained judoka can throw or trip someone onto concrete and cause serious life changing injury without dropping to their knees. Osoto Gari for example, is basically the schoolyard trip on steroids, but I shudder to think how much that would hurt on pavement. Perfect for multiple opponents. Mixed with boxing skills and you got yourself a great base to take on 2 maybe 3 people, who are much less fit and trained with you, Anything more than that is a dream. But you also have to be good at both these arts, being mediocre wont count.

[@rpontonjr]

John Harvey Even more importantly, many "real" street fights are pissing contests over ego, not actual life or death situations. These are likely to remain 1v1 (if you've got your buddies backing you up), and grappling is a very effective way of establishing dominance without escalating the situation to deadly violence.

[@farmerboy916]

Richard Ponton This, and idiots attacking you for no reason (except intoxication, perhaps), are why I think grappling cannot be completely ignored when discussing PRACTICAL martial arts. I mean, that accounts for most fights if you're a sensible person, and certainly it is always appreciated if you don't beat the shit out of people when they're being assholes. Well, there's also other people trying to bring you to the ground; in which case, a little grappling and knowledge of how to get out of it would be very practical.

[@Shermingtan]

What I find unfortunate that people rarely talk about avoiding fights, which can be a skill in itself (not talking abnout Matts videos here). It's not always possible to avoid a fight, but you can limit the probability if you know what to look out for, sometimes you can de-escalate situations too. Good fighter or not, winning or not. There is a good chance you will leave the fight injured, maybe even permantly. Fuck pride or douches who never learned to express themselves verbally. Your health is more important than both of those things.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Shermingtan Yes, any good self protection course will focus a lot on avoidance of actual fighting.

[@aaronwhitley7811]

Shermingtan From my experience, self-defense instructors (vs. martial arts instructors) often harp over this point. Most of them stress the run-away/get-away/prevent the fight point and provide strategies for doing that. The rest of training is then the what do you do when that fails. Geoff Thompson (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Thompson_(writer)), a phenominal self-defense instructor (one of the best in my simple opinon), focuses on this and provides specific methods and strategies for doing so.

[@hakuorowitsuarunemitea8708]

That's something I figured out early on. Since I'm quite small it's oftentimes more advantageous for me to run than to fight.

[@thossi09]

***** When I was 16 or 17 I started going to these karate classes. One of the instructors made that point repeatedly in the beginning: "This is not a self-defense class. The best thing for self-defense is a good pair of running shoes."

[@thecolbykelly]

I have to say I love MMA dearly and train and I agree with all the things Matt has said. There is a few points I'd like to add 1. MMA has the advantage of being developed after thousands of years of combat and historical accounts of combat to analyze and find strengths and weaknesses 2. It's important to consider the general size of the people where these martial arts developed. Muay Thai (Thai boxing) is effective for people who are generally smaller, a stockier person would have trouble with the high volume of kicks for example. 3. An overwhelming amount of techniques in MMA were derived from these earlier martial arts 4. MMA is a sporting competition, if it were a fight to the death both the techniques and the actual conmbat it self might look very different

[@CanadaMMA]

Matt, I say this as someone that has studied modern martial arts for more than a decade. You know more about MMA than most fans of the UFC. Your observations are spot on for the most part. Especially the sport vs fight aspect. As much as I love MMA, it isn't a "real fight", despite being the closest thing we can have without it being, you know, a fight. A few things I think you are slightly off base on however. One is ground fighting. You are correct when you say that you don't want to spend a lot of time rolling around on the ground. However, if you are trained in ground fighting, taking someone down and applying an armlock known as a kumira (keylock is another name) or some other type of hold will quickly disable your opponent. A broken arm means they are out of the fight. A chokehold will put someone to sleep in 5-7 seconds. These holds allow me to control my opponent while eliminating any potential attacks he can use against me. There are plenty of holds which also leave you able to somewhat defend yourself if a second person in a 2v2 fight decides to help out his friend. However, that leads me to my second point. 2. Most fights are 1v1. I was a bouncer for several years and only on the rarest of occasions did I have to bust up a "brawl". Worrying about another personal entering the fray when you are already in a fight, possibly for your life, is a bit like worrying about the fact your kids are playing with matches when a crackhead with a gas can is in your kitchen. Also, "Krav Maga" does teach quite a lot of grappling and ground fighting. However, it doesn't go off into the branching paths that say brazilian jiu-jitsu or various forms of wrestling do. It's quick, dirty and nasty. It also uses A LOT of hybrid techniques likes like "dirty" boxing and a modified thai clinch. But really Matt, GREAT video. Especially on the sport vs fight point. P.S Kids, if someone pulls out a knife, run. No matter what martial arts you know, a knife is a knife.

[@lastofusclips5291]

i agree with what you said. the point is that a martial art needs to be tested for effectiveness in real world situations if 'effectiveness' is defined in terms of self-defense in real-life encounters that may involve weapons, things in the environment, etc. The reason why many traditional martial arts get a bad wrap is that they are only solo endeavors where people only practise forms and is marketed as being effective as a self-defense method.

[@RafeKelley]

I agree completely about the importance of context in evaluating martial arts, and the dangers of ground fighting in self defense. I just wanted to note that MMA has become a much more stand up oriented game in the last 15 years. The rule set actually advantages the talented striker in many ways, wraps and MMA gloves make KO's easier to attain, while the gloves plus lack of jackets makes submissions more difficult, you'll see many fights now that spend little to no time on the ground. Fighters who use this strategy are sometimes refered to as sprawl and brawl fighters, they are adept at avoiding being taken down and at delivering punishment on the feet. This style of MMA I think is actually a good base delivery system for all around self defense ability once coupled with training in situation awareness, multiple attacker tactics, and use of non sport targets. I tend to think a good MMA base plus some reality based self defense classes is a very good basis for modern martial artist.

[@d4mdcykey]

I think we can all benefit from the sage advice of the most renowned fight master of all time, Master Ken: RESTOMP THE GROIN!

[@100dfrost]

Matt, I think you stated your points very well, and on the whole I agree. I told my sons that MMA had essentially re-created Pankraton that has been practiced for thousands of years. They ridiculed me until we looked at some films of it on KZbin. Personally I would use military SocP, but this allows me to have a rifle. Enjoyed the video very much. Thank-you, Dante.

[@Sullivanwicca]

Matt, could you make a video talking whatever you may know about South American armed martial arts, from the Renaissance. Their main influences and possible original styles? Like the Esgrima Criolla of the Gauchos.

[@Survivethejive]

MMA might not be ideal as training for hooligan fights, multiple attackers or defence from armed assailants, but it certaintly doesn't hurt! you can compliment mma with other stuff anyway

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

The Context and the importance of the environment reminds me of show where two matrial arts travel the world sampling different martial arts. During their trip to Israel, one of the martial arts, meant up with a Krav Maga instructor. The instructor asked one of the men to demonstrate what they know before he started teaching. One of the guys just bullrushed the and tried to slam him to the floor, doing a move he learned in another martial art, the instructor just pulled a knife slimulator out of his pocket and stabbed the guy in the back twenty as the guy was pushing him to then ground. He then said, "You are a great ring fighter, but a horrible self defense fighter, I just killed you."

[@ikesteroma]

I agree with every point Matt makes. I would like to note that forums like the UFC have dashed many different aspects of modern martial arts that been developed by hobbyist whose fighting style doesn't work at all outside of the dojo.

[@iryisa]

In favor of grips, locks in traditional japanese martial arts (and aikido) once the opponent is on the floor: They don't have lo last more than a second! The opponent stays put under the threat of luxation and dislocation. You can always carry through these and the opponent will be out of the fight in pain. In aiki jujutsu they go through the motions of taking an imaginary knife and killing the opponent after the grip/lock.

[@TheAurgelmir]

This made me think of a TV show I watched way back when, don't recall the name of it but it was two guys that travled the world and learned different martial arts. One of the guys was an MMA fighter, and in one episode he was going to learn Military style Krav Maga. And as a ground fighter he'd often find himself on the ground to grapple.... and each time the instructor would go over and kick him and yell "NOW YOU ARE DEAD!" (She really didn't like ground fighting :P)

[@UrbanSurvivalcraft]

Spot on! Your views perfectly echo my own and I have decades of traditional and eclectic martial arts experience. What I will say is that the sport systems allow us to actually learn how to fight in a relatively safe environment. Most people living in 1st world countries will rarely ever need to actually fight thus will not have any experience feeling what a real fight will feel like. Physically, mentally, emotionally and psychologically. The sports systems will fill in that gap.

[@thebobbytytesvarrietyhour4168]

Just adding that situational awareness is the most important aspect of practical self defense.

[@autolykos9822]

I mostly agree, but have some minor nitpicks: First, getting bogged down in ground fighting with an opponent who has a knife (or friends) is a good way to get you killed, BUT dropping to the floor will get you out of knife range and the guy with the knife is probably reluctant to follow you down. This buys you a fraction of a second to hook his front foot with your lower foot and break his knee with the upper one. It's one of the better ways of not getting stabbed anywhere vital, at least. Second, locks "on the mat" are something you hold until the other guy taps off. Which *will* get you in trouble if his friends come by. On the street, especially with an opponent who doesn't expect that lock, you will simply break the joint and move on to the next one. It's not about fighting, it's about ending fights.

[@matthewrouge]

First, great video. But I have an issue remaining. You say, "Yes lots of traditional arts are very limited in their scope as martial arts, but MMA also has limitations - the most obvious one is the lack of dealing with weapons." This is absolutely true, but I think the people who point out that Wing Chung, etc., are weak compared to MMA are saying something different. To wit: "All these martial arts used to pretend they were so badass, but MMA actually showed that they were pretty pathetic." IOW, we were fed a line for loooong time, and MMA has shown it to be BS. Example: Bruce Lee pontificating and posturing with Jeet Kune Do. There was never any, "This has major limitations, but in certain contexts this could work for you." No, it was sold as a fighting system that would be truly effective in a wide range of situations. Not to pick on Bruce, but there was *so much* BS built up around all these traditional systems. I think it's totally fair to call out their ineffectiveness in the cage, since in their sales pitches they asserted their usefulness in just such a situation (no-holds-barred street fight sans weapons).

[@ThePartialArtist]

I'm a MMA practitioner and I agree completely. That's why I look at HEMA and Krav Maga. In fact the only really reason I do MMA is bc I love all forms of martial arts and didn't want to be limited. Example, if I did boxing, I couldn't kick. there are no HEMA places near me and the Krav Maga academy near me is way to expensive, so I have learn as much as I can via the internet

[@Freejason33]

UFC statistics for 2015: *154 KO's* *89 submissions* That's a virtual 2 to 1 ratio to dispel this "MMA = BJJ" myth. Grappling is a mandatory skill set for sport or self defense, but nobody thinks it's the end-all be-all strategy.

[@TheScydeFX]

Plus how many submissions come after rocking an opponent on the feet, rather than during the ground game? I'd guess at least 1 in 4.

[@Freejason33]

Vex That has definitely happened more than once.

[@lakshen47]

And how many KO's come after beating the opponent senseless while or after "rolling around on the floor"? I bet that more than evens the score.

[@Freejason33]

lakshen47 no question, ground-and-pound is part of that KO statistic. In my mind, there's not really a Grappling vs. Striking debate (both skill sets are mandatory), but I just wanted to show that MMA fighters have more offensive weapons than triangles and armbars.

[@carlcantrell4781]

A very important difference between all martial arts training for competition and real street fighting that no one seems to talk about is that all martial arts used for competitive sports have rules to prevent or decrease serious injury or death. This means that all regulated competitions and training for those competitions will forbid or restrict moves which break bones or kill. The only rule in street fighting is survival; staying alive anyway you can. In real street fighting, you need to know how to break bones and kill because you want to end the fight as quickly as possible, especially if you are fighting two or more people, which requires quickly crippling or killing the person. The really big problem with almost all modern martial arts and MMA is that they have evolved into training people for demonstrations (A.K.A. tojo ballet) or competition which has restrictions on what you can do in a fight, therefore, preventing the students from learning real street fighting where you need to know how to do the things most martial arts no longer teach. Your comments in this video are the best I have seen by anyone, especially "experts", concerning modern martial arts and combative sports verses real street fighting, where you are fighting for your life. They are two very different worlds. Thank you for your comments and common sense.

[@robertsullivan3922]

Point in of order: Thai boxing: evolved from a Siamese military system that also incorporated a short sword/long dagger in each hand, Maui Thai is that system without the blades, very practical in real fights. kickboxing is the purely sportilised version with no elbows and lots of high kicks that are mostly impractical outside of a sporting context

[@deadswordsman]

Small correction on kendo. You can disarm your opponent and it's legal

Great video, great message. Context rules, not just for judging different martial arts.

[@Guilleme]

MMA was not developed as a self-defense system so it ignores some basic self-defense tenets. That being said, skills from MMA and/or BJJ help significantly with other self-defense systems. MMA fighters spend a lot of training on not only getting opponent to the ground, but also defending take-downs. It informs striking and kicking, which is useful all-around. Last point I would like to make is this. While ground-fighting on the street is rarely a good idea, sometimes you A) don't have a choice and B) may find it useful. I used to work as a doorman in a club for 5 years and BJJ particularly came really handy. It was a very effective way how to subue someone and not hurt them at the same time.

[@00die00991]

Totally agree about the context behind different martial arts. Still think though that many still have applicable skills, moves and training to the modern world even if they are dedicated to sport. Training to fight even in a competition makes you more agile, faster and how to defend yourself from oncoming attacks. This will deffo give you an advantage (unless of course they've had martial arts training as well in which well its fairly even).

[@meltedplasticarmyguy]

Debating which style is better is futile as each have their own pros and cons. I am not a "martial artist" per se but I have learned a number of techniques from many different "styles" in that I have found there is one that trumps every fighting style out there... you walk away. In all my years in the military I have learned some very important lessons about fighting: 1) If you are forced to fight and your attacker is charging you, you shoot him, 2) If your enemy is shooting at you, you shoot him first, and finally 3) If it comes down to close quarters and hand to hand combat you do anything and everything to kill your assailant. When you are in a fight that truly matters there are no rules, no referee, no "time outs", you end the fight as quickly as possible. You do not draw out the confrontation just to prove a point, you just waste time and energy. People always seem to "romanticize" battle and think that there is honor and glory in it. Take it from someone who has actually had to fight for his life, chivalry and honor only exist before and after a fight, never during. Fighting is brutal and ugly and I do not wish it on anyone, because even if you win it changes you and not always for the better because it stays with you for the rest of your life. People tell me that I was only doing my job but that does not make it any easier. I can see their faces as clear as day. I have nightmares that would break lesser men.

[@drewilger2049]

I really appreciate your lectures and expertise - your explanations with context help build understanding - Drew

[@theomen49]

I used to practice TDM. I'm currently doing a lot of BJJ. MMA has no weapons training intrinsically, yes. however, when modern combat trainees learn hand to hand stuff, it's usually MMA with weapons training thrown in. This is basically what Krav Maga is, which I'm not a big fan of but that's besides the point. What I think the UFC has shown is that having good knowledge of grappling is extremely important for hand to hand fighting. And while certain styles are prevalent in constituting a well rounded MMA fighter (BJJ, American/western wrestling, muay Thai) what we've seen is that the styles that were originally considered bullshit have been somewhat resurging. George Saint Pierre has his base in Karate, and he is considered one of the best UFC fighters of all time. kicks were originally considered worthless, but over time they gained popularity. first low kicks, then high kicks, jumping high knee's, and even high wheel kicks are now fairly common. I think that all martial arts are useful, as long as there is sparring involved. But I also think, as the early UFC fights showed, pure grappling often beats pure striking one on one. I agree that going to the ground against multiple opponents is unwise, however show me the fighting style that consistently beats multiple opponents in live sparring.

[@hybridpsycho]

I pretty much agree with everything you said. Having practiced Combat Jujutsu for 6 years, Muay Thai for one and Kyokushin Karate for the past 2 years (I've also tried practiced a fair amount of Krav Maga and even tried HEMA). MMA has been something that I've tried given that I've practiced quite a few styles and Combat Jujutsu was pretty much MMA focused style of fighting. MMA is as you said in the video (Mixed Martial arts), as the name implies you take several martial arts (normally BJJ + Muay Thai or Judo + kickboxing etc etc) and put them to use for a specific competetive purpose. Lyoto Machida who's a pretty top ranked MMA fighter has his background in Karate and BJJ. Then you have some people who haven't practiced anything but MMA, but a lot of them normally started out somewhere else in a more "traditional" martial arts. Which is why I think people like to talk about which is the more "superior" martial arts. I do however believe that having a lot of knowledge from MMA training or any good "striking" (kicks, punches etc) training will help you in Krav Maga. While Krav Maga obviously contain striking as part of the training, it doesn't do it as well (during the first years) as other martial arts that contain a lot of striking. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, even when it comes to a self-defense purpose. Having GOOD striking in your arsenal is gonna help a ton. Then again, that pretty much goes for everything martial arts. If you have good variety of knowledge/skill and know how to use it, you'll have a great advantage.

[@DangerousMixture]

I think it's also important to remember that combat isn't all in the punching and kicking. In real life, winning the battle can mean giving up your position. Whether that means falling back from an objective to launch a counterattack or prevent casualties, or giving the thief with the knife the fifty dollars in your wallet and the bank card you can easily freeze, knowing when to take and when to avoid fights is as important in real life combat as knowing how to fight.

[@CharlesOffdensen]

If you get attacked by a knife, or by a group of people, it doesn't really matter if you lay on the ground or just stand in front of them, you do not have much of a chance anyway. If your attacker(s) know what they are doing and if they are trained, no martial art can save you. But yeah, if someone goes to a fight with the idea to go to the ground, that is a risk. And yes, street fight never last long and they are never won by the cardio-machines like Cain Velasquez, that rule the MMA-world. So MMA sometimes give you a wrong perspective of what would work in the street. But it also does teach you good things as well. Same goes for many martial arts, if you don't pay attention to the thing, they are lacking, you are going to take many risks. And MMA may not be better, but I don't think it is worse.

[@KM2558-o1y]

I’ve trained for many years in TMA and also a couple of years in MMA which was not sustainable due to being in my late 40’s at the time and experiencing a very high level of ongoing injuries. Fast forward to my current age of 62 and training mostly solo, I would have no intention of either “squaring” up to a physical threat or engaging in some sort of imagined unarmed engagement. In short, guile and “cheating” are a main stay of my current approach if I’m forced to defend myself.

[@bluelionsage99]

For real life modern self defense and modern martial art teaches you to control your thoughts and to control your body to do what you want it to do. If that is to fight then it is to fight, but if you need to run you will hopefully pick your routes better and if you need to jump or climb something hopefully your body will do what you want it to do. After 15 years of different styles the best self defense thing I learned was how to fall from Judo. Very few times I have been attacked, quite a few times I tripped, fell or got knocked over.

[@theknightofbadassness301]

As someone who has had a few MMA fights I can say that MMA is very good in a strictly one on one fight but you are absolutely right in saying that most of the wrestling is very dangerous to use even if they don't have a knife. It's their friends you should be worried about. Also a lot of the wrestling pummelling, shooting etc, if you are fighting dirty, put you in a dangerous position. Next time your pummelling think about how easy it would be to bite his ear off ;) But saying all of this I've also noticed a few moments in HEMA where, if you are fighting dirty, some of the plays next to useless. Not to mention some times I get the urge grapple, punch or give a cheeky kick to the nads! Traditional eastern martial arts some time focus too much on the spiritual side. This is something MMA does not burden itself with.

[@ImAlphaBro]

At my dojo we do everything traditionally with karate but in all the classes I learn Kenjutsu,Karate,Muay Thai,traditional kobudo (weapons),Jui jitsu,general self defense like disarming a guy with a gun and disarming a guy with a knife and getting out of bear hug etc,and batto do which is a different art similar to iaido

[@girardbcp]

If somebody has a knife, none of your martial arts will work. Even Filipino knife and stick fighters will tell you that you are getting cut and you might get killed or seriously injured. If there's more than one person you should run unless you are armed. There is no martial art that can protect you. If you don't spar against a resisting opponent, your martial art will not work well. It doesn't matter what martial art it is. BJJ won't work if you only do drills. You can't get better at boxing by only hitting the bag (though that does help a lot). And the list goes on. What's this HEMAA thing? Sounds fun.

[@platypusofdeath3582]

HEMA is an acronym that stands for Historic European Martial Arts.

[@thomasmorris9022]

@Joe Blow agreed, but its not a safe thing to do thats what he's on about i believe

[@maxtemmel3918]

It's really interesting, the fighting style most karataka's in our dojo end up with, since we pretty directly show the difference between formal and informal, which is to say, kata and basics, opposed to sparring and self defense (they often show up in the other, but the skills are means to different goals) we end up with a fighting style that seems like a bastardized version of formal karate (deep stances, and incredibly powerful strikes to vulnerable areas) muay thai/kickboxing (this is really our bread and butter) with a bit of judo and aikido for throws and joint locks.

[@erikhartmann7517]

Very well put! On the Internet it seems most people have only been in 1on1 fights.

[@andreaskarlsson6352]

Thanks for the perspective. You brought new insights to me

[@BeoZard]

Good modern self defense martial arts concentrate on three things: get loose, strike hard, get away. In a protect yourself situation you really don't want to hang around and you don't want your assailant following to close behind you.

[@agdoor]

I believe you had a valid point. Context is everything. If you want to defend yourself you have to train accordingly. The training for competition is very different, as you have to abide by rules. Nothing against any form of martial art, unless it's a sport oriented art promoting itself as a self defense it vise versa. Every system has something to offer. It's up to the practitioner to test what works for them. Stress test what you're learning and use what works for you. It all comes down to you fight how you train. Just my two cents worth. Peace

[@Daxcheese555]

I find the greatest difficulty I have with your argument is that you assume MMA fighters wouldn't use weapons or illegal moves in a real fight, or somehow they would be ill-prepared for them. On the contrary, an emphasis on regular hard sparring would allow such a fighter to be more aware of his surroundings and indeed be able to use such tactics more effectively due to a better understanding of fight mechanisms(you don't eye gouge someone who has superior positioning over you). Also, the earliest MMA fights were no-rules affairs. There WERE groin strikes! There were people who had their hair pulled off fully from the scalp. There HAVE been fighters blinded in the fights. On the context point, MMA by far resembles real fights more than TMA, Don't take my word for it. Consider the earliest proponents of MMA were all street fighters who share their battle hardened stories of the effectiveness of ground and stand-up fighting. The Gracie family got into gang wars and were shot at, Bas Rutten choked a guy out on the ground with his two buddies trying to cave his head in, and the list goes on. As others have pointed out, one of the key aspects of MMA ground fighting is to prevent going to the ground, and to be effective on the ground when it does go there(which is very common in the more typical anger-induced fights). MMA isn't the be-all-end-all combat art. But it is the most effective simply on the grounds of versatility. Please consider the history of the sport to better grasp why the techniques used the in the ring/cage were created in the first place. I understand you are not dissing MMA, but I do feel you have spoken without a clear understanding of the sport and its techniques.

[@tomjue5128]

Muscle memory can hurt you if you are so used too MMA rules, that's all

[@garnets3484]

Sparring and katas certainly help.... The ability to recognize an opportunity and take advantage of it can be limited by the programmed responses of most martial arts. If you are actually unfortunate enough to be in a street fight it's as much dependant on your survival mindset as any training, there are any number of trained "Experts" who have found that out the hard way.

[@terryclapp8169]

I haven't even watched to the end of the video, but I bet I can predict Matt's response: "It depends."

[@KirstenBayes]

I train in Filipino Martial Arts and what I admire about MMA is that the techniques are mostly non lethal. The average male MMA fighter in their twenties or thirties is already strong and fast, and MMA rounds it out and makes them superfit. They can already dish out and take serious punishment. By contrast, FMA is really all about street fighting and combatives, growing up as it did in ordinary Filipino communities under occupation, to give the poor, regular person (like me) a fighting chance against tough perhaps armoured opponents who are trying to kill them. So its techniques are designed to drop people really quickly: OK if its random street attacker maybe, but not if its a brother who has had too much to drink or a burglar who just wants your telly. We view this philosophically.

[@objectionable9891]

Matt makes some good points. I don’t entirely disagree however to say that MMA is predominantly about fighting on the ground is misleading. Modern MMA is more about fighting where you have an advantage, therefore wrestling is usually the most important skill, whether its to keep the fight where you are comfortable or to take your opponent out of their comfort zone. Its not simply fighting on the ground for long periods of time. Of course MMA training is geared to winning the fight but what makes it so formidable is that by its very nature you must face conflict, the biggest criticisms that MMA practitioners direct toward traditional martial arts is that the way they train often does not prepare you for an actual fight, what is being taught may be very useful but practitioners will often get wiped out by people who train MMA because they are more prepared to actually fight. Good video, context important as always

[@hieronymusbinch9526]

Couldn't agree more. I would also add that traditional unarmed martial arts such as (shotokan/kyokushin) karate are not practiced correctly in most dojos, to the point that they are barely even a shadow of what they used to be. MMA is just a sport.

[@PinataOblongata]

Things that will actually save your life: - Not going into unsafe places, especially at night and/or alone. - Not drinking too much alcohol or being around others drinking too much alcohol. - Being aware of your surroundings. - Knowing when to run and being able to run. - Not hesitating if you really need to react. - Knowing how to talk enough shit to get out of something or not talk so much shit you get into something.

[@TheWhiskyDelta]

One of my favourite points about modern punching that people don't realise is just how critical gloves are. Without at least minimalist gloves, there is a significant risk of fracturing your knuckles or otherwise injuring your hands, (even with gloves this can still happen in limited cases) as a result many puching techniques today are actually somewhat risky if done barehanded. The whole old timey pugilist "put up your dukes" style of punching was for example a specific style to minimise the chance of hurting your hands.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Absolutely. The older boxing manuals have a lot more punching at the body and arms and less focus on head hitting. And as you say, there was more emphasis on defence.

[@jcurry303]

Love watching your videos, I agree with you 90% of the time, and feel I understand where you are coming from even when I do not necessarily agree. I do have a comment for you on this video though, but let me give it some context. My brother and I have been doing any style of sword fighting we could get our hands on for over 10 years now, and have been doing our best to break into more HEMA stuff. I have a black belt in a previous martial art and have been able to adapt my knowledge to get a fair grounding in some of the techniques we have been trying to figure out from the manuals. My brother feels his lack of martial arts background holds him back and he has decided to start MMA to help him in that area. He was able to score me a free lesson with his instructor and we hit it of well. We argued potential evolution of martial arts and if people becoming better fighters than those that came before us. He brought up an interesting point. We live in a time where we can learn from so many different people, from so many different areas, and we can put their moves to the test within a sparring context. Though in order to spar, we need to remove techniques centered around lethality, we gain from the ability to apply our moves against a resistant opponent. The competence gained from this level of combat is applicable in both sparring, and a real fight situation. Not to become to lengthy my point is this. Dropping moves designed to kill has allowed many martial arts to focus in a live application of their techniques. It has been my experience that people trained in this manner do win fights more often than those trained in more "lethal" martial arts. Both inside and outside of the ring. If they see the fight coming, they are hands down some of the hardest fighter's. I feel traditional martial arts does a good job focusing on the unexpected encounters that are prone to happening, take into account terrain and weapons better, but MMA does give many people a better understanding of what it feels like to be in a fight. That goes a long way.

[@swissarmyknight4306]

Well done. What you have said squares up exactly with Jeet Kune Do's advice on self defense, btw.

[@TriEssenceMartialArts]

Couldn't say it better myself, very good points.

[@lainhikaru5657]

Very good video,I trained goju-ryu karate for quite long and my best advise against an armed robber is do not react unless you feel like the person is gonna hurt you,let the person take your money or cell phone amd go.Because as skilled as you are bullets are aways faster.

[@locchieppese]

Thanks. Ps: also fighting with or without clothes on makes a huge difference.

[@85481]

I have two basic ideas on training for self defense . First if you want to defend yourself from something learn how to do it. If you want to stay off the ground learn to put someone on the ground, if you want to avoid getting stuck on the ground learn how to fight on the ground and pin someone down, if you want to know how not to die in a knife attack learn to fight with a knife etc. Second you have to train with as much contact as possible. If you can't stop a person earnestly trying to dump you on the ground in a safe environment then you can't do it in an unsafe one.

[@BobBob-ij4bz]

If you're going to mention context, I would hazard to guess that the more effective weapon for street defense in the modern context is a gun, pepper spray, or taser type device rather than any sword or stabby stuff. especially for a person of lesser physical strength and stature, using a pepper spray or taser would be far more effective and require less practice

[@donaldhill3823]

Martial arts in any form is to teach you the mechanics of your body so that you may utilize it and various weapons to defend your self. It is not wise to stick to specific exercise forms in actual combat because you will restrain yourself and telegraph your every move to someone who is the least bit familiar with the martial art you have trained in. Those who have truly mastered a form of martial arts will not be caught mimicking the practice moves in combat but excising the limits of what they know to gain full advantage of their skill in unexpected ways.

[@drovisanal1025]

So wath we learn was that for some reason idiots fighting in the streets with a knife are the most badasses of all the bad asses fighters of the badass world of badassery. Thank you 👌

[@Hon_cb1kr]

This is a balance view, I agree totally. Krav Maga, Systema are in fact better systems for real life street situation than MMA or Brazilian ground fighting.

[@Lukos0036]

Most MMA fighters have specializations. So it's not entirely "rolling around on the floor" and submission holds. They do stratify out as "strikers" and "grapplers" based on what the individual trained with and is good at. And most modern fights by amateurs in a street fight setting tend to transition from striking to wrestling range very quickly. Sometimes the thrower gets pulled to the ground with them. It's just how people fight when they are impaired chemically or emotionally. A lot of it devolves into a match to see who can throw who to the ground fastest and hurt them. The ground is a lot more unforgiving than a fist and being tossed onto concrete will put an end to a fight quickly, possibly even kill the assailant depending on how they land. And a lot of the "weapon disarm" martial arts don't acknowledge how knives and improvised weapons are actually used. They force the opponent during drills to stab or strike in a certain way that facilitates them showing off a specific often complex technique that is performed by a man or woman who is not terrified, shaking, and unable to think. Adrenalin muddies your mind. Panic narrows your focus. You are no longer a human being in that instant. You are a cornered animal. Throws, locks, strikes should be simple. Instinctive. And all martial arts traditional or otherwise should teach more about how to spot and stay out of dangerous situations in the first place. Because people are not hard to read. If you know what to look for.

[@bBlaF]

A wonderful commentary on a touchy subject, Matt. And I think you have the right of it. MMA is wonderfully effective, but cannot help losing some situational efficacy when out of its very focused and specialized context. Particularly worrisome for me when considering real world application is the lack of weapons. This is a big reason I'm so fond of Filipino Martial Arts. Too much stuff for a comment on KZbin, but it's out there to be looked up. Guro Doug Marcaida has some very good stuff on KZbin and there are others as well.

[@MarcRitzMD]

Matt, you're observation that most MMA fights end on the ground isn't accurate. Less than one fourth end in submissions. And those that do may actually end in very few seconds. Takedown defence is ridiculously important in MMA. If you want to avoid landing on the ground on the street, you can't avoid it by focusing on a martial art that has no ground game because they mostly lack takedown defense. That is why Wing Chun and Karate is inferior. The MMA practitioner learns how to avoid landing on the ground. The Karate or Wing Chun guy doesn't. The Judo and Muay Thai guy does however. Your observation that MMA has a sporting event as its context only makes sense when comparing it to martial arts which don't have any sporting application. Karate for example doesn't apply at all then. Further, the most critical aspect of a fighter's ability to win fights is his experience in actual fights. Martial arts which don't put an immense focus on sparring and resistence during drills simply don't do well. The more restricted the practice the worse it gets. That is why Kendo, AIkido and Wing Chun are useless for self defense. They are mainly just Samurai and Shaolin Larping.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Marc Ritz This may be true in regard to take-downs, but applying quite a lot of MMA technique to a situation where the opponent has a knife (or friends present) will get the MMA killed most of the time.

[@scholagladiatoria]

TrangleC It isn't any different - that was my point :-) MMA suffers limitations just as other martial arts do. MMA is not the total answer that some people seem to think it is.

[@kitgames1174]

scholagladiatoria I don't get it. Even you, unarmed vs a knife (or friends present) will get killed most of the time if you engage. Mixed Martial Arts is just that, you are learning a striking art and a ground art and mixing them, the most common arts learned are Muay Thai with Jujitsu. I'm not sure why you think someone trained in ground combat would be rolling around a long time, vs someone not trained most Jujitsu practitioners could break an arm or leg in seconds. You are more likely to survive having more knowledge than you are with less. I'd say sparring is most important, someone learning an art with no contact is at a severe disadvantage vs someone learning an art with contact.

[@brottarnacke]

TrangleC I kind of get the impression that you tend to divide martial arts into "MMA" and "traditional martial arts", period. Please don't do that. Pure MMA training, as in training solely for MMA competition (which many clubs do) will give you a fighter's chance, even against a knife, but there are self defense and knife based systems, which include hard sparring and ground fighting among other things and are way better suited for dealing with weapons than pure MMA.

[@brottarnacke]

TrangleC "I haven't seen one yet that lived up to the hype and that includes Krav Maga." Then you simply haven't looked hard enough. Don't get too hung up on brand names neither, just because you've seen one bad Krav Maga club doesn't mean they all are, it depends on the affiliation and most of all the instructor. And no, Krav Maga is not only geared towards military, you got that all wrong. Most clubs teach civilian self defense with laws in mind. I'm not just talking about KM though. The thing about MMA is that it is great fight training, but most clubs train with the sole purpose of competing in MMA-competition. That is excellent for the pure fighting aspect, but it's still a compromise if you want to train for self defense. What you want is an academy that trains just like an MMA-gym, but with the purpose of self defense in mind, filling the gaps left in pure MMA-training, such as knife and weapons training/sparring. Sometimes that means you have to cross train in several places, but there are single places that train like that as well, with an attitude towards self defense.

[@MrTryfonStathopoulos]

Rolling on the ground might not be what you want in a real fight, but more often than not it is what you will get, so its good to learn what to do if your there. Also I think defending yourself from a weapon on the ground is a great Idea, why not?

[@judofry]

Great video! I think the TMA vs MMA argument is kinda juvenile but I can kinda understand why it exists. MMA training might help in a solo no weapons fight better than TMA because you learn to face a resistive opponent. Many TMA schools focus mostly on kata (forms) or non-resistive drills and maybe light sparring (which is more like tag). However, like you said MMA doesn't involve weapons or multiple opponents and the scenario is restricted. I guess a lot of MMA people view TMA like HEMA peeps probably view sport fencing.

[@ZiePe]

Some very good points, there. The reason I dont do Hema ist that my spare time is for MMA :D Although I feel confident on the ground, I'd be weary to engange in grappling in a self-defense situation. Not only because of other people and knives, but also because of those lampposts you mentioned and other stuff (the area of Berlin I live in is full of bars and clubs, so you cant put your foot on the ground without stepping on glass.). But MMA isnt only aboout ground game, thats why there is the first M. It depends on your preferences and backround. There are grapplers and strikers in MMA and nowadays more and more well rounded MMA fighters, who know doing both. Also sometimes its not you who initiates the grappling part. Then its very helpful to know MMA or BJJ, because if you are going for a submission and your adversairy doesnt know the technique, its very hard for him to defend. So its very eady to cath a non grappler with a grappling technique he/she wasnt even aware of.

[@Jukkaimaru]

The only thing I feel like I want to point out is that not all Japanese traditional martial art ryu have particularly limited equipment. A lot of koryu budo actually have a pretty diverse training curriculum. :)

[@brandom255]

Hi, Matt! Regarding context, I'd like to see you talk about the co-evolution of different types of weapons and armour. If you have done so before, please someone point that out! I'm a recent subscriber, and have not seen more than a few dozen of your numerous videos... yet! :) Regards!

[@p0ck3tp3ar]

It's also critical to consider that mma practicioners go into the ring knowing very well that there is a referee and corner trying to ensure their safety. In a real fight an mma fighter could very well crack under pressure or succumb to fear if he hasn't been in these real combat encounters before, which many haven't. In a real fight you can die, you can get hit by a bottle in the head, punched in the balls, have your teeth smashed into the pavement or be shot. In some situations you don't know the extent of danger and that can be a very scary thing. In other words, a guy who has no training can beat an mma fighter in a street fight due to all these extra factors, especially when there are rocks on the ground and other weapons. A BJJ black belt recently tried to choke out a guy with a pistol on a bus and got shot in the head and died, just a random example. There are also random factors such as slipping on rocks, the sun in your eyes, unstable footing due to rain and puddles, difficulty breathing due to cold weather, etc. A random guy can literally kill an elite mma fighter. I'm not saying it's likely, but anything can happen on the streets.