A Film Noir Primer: What Is Film Noir?

What exactly is film noir? In this episode, we'll tackle that question and also discuss why these movies from the dark side of cinema have stayed with us for as long as they have, always calling us back for one more score.
Cereal At Midnight reviews Gun Crazy: www.cerealatmidnight.com/2019/...
Cereal At Midnight reviews The Set Up: www.cerealatmidnight.com/2020/...
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[@atypicalmedia7211]

It’s midnight and I was eating a bowl of cereal when I typed in “what is film noir” and this channel was the first result.

[@SALTLIFEBROFESSORS]

a year later i just did the same thing. minus the cereal

[@MAFion]

I think noir has its deepest roots in Greek tragedy. Specifically in the psyche of the male hero trapped in a dark fate. Oedipus as a noir might look like Old Boy. The more he learns, driven by desire or curiosity, the closer to doom he gets. It's sort of a counterbalance to the role of the woman in a type of horror, specifically in regards to the final girl trope who confronts the monster.

[@hankworden3850]

Jesus...can you just ruin everything for everyone? Oh thanks!

[@ebonfireharbinger7916]

I understand the idea but if you know the Hayes Code and see other movies of the time women are not treated sooooo much better. If anything I think because they always ever were getting close to the Code they had women able to control their fates a bit more. A femme fatale could kill you or save you. But there was not the assigned girl to help you. And some ladies did help but in the end there just is not the (perceptions of a) hunger for female stories as a rule till the later 50's. The only issue is it is a Noir so it works out bad for everyone.

[@leemoz1]

Or back to Adam and Eve. Eve being the femme fatale, and Adam being the weak everyman...

[@xflyingtiger]

I took a film noir class at Cal State Fullerton in 1974. It was an amazing full semester introduction to the style/genre. Now at the age of 72 I want to go back and review, or perhaps pick up points of interest that I have either forgotten or never quite absorbed. Thanks for this video.

[@mattchalucha894]

I love noir that is almost “dream-like” in the tradition of “The Big Sleep”.

[@deepspacealley]

My first ever film noir I started with yesterday was Kansas City Confidential with John Payne, Lee Van Cleef and Preston Foster. It was fantastic! I want to watch more.

[@1977Suspiria]

As far as recommendations go, any half decent noir fans should already be familiar with the likes of The Big Heat, Maltese Falcon, The Killing, Double Indemnity, Out Of The Past etc., some of the other ones you pictured in this video like Dark Passage, Detour, Gun Crazy are great too but some lesser known ones I love that I'd highly recommend would be The Sniper, Where The Sidewalk Ends, On Dangerous Ground, Odds Against Tomorrow, Drive A Crooked Road, The Reckless Moment, Framed etc., I love a good noir.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Great suggestions. A lot of people may see this who have never seen a single noir film, so entry level suggestions are welcome too!

[@ripmurdock6975]

Nice. Love the Reckless Moment with Joan Bennett. On Dangerous Ground doesn't get much of a mention these days either but love the bleak, snowy setting and Robert Ryan.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Robert Ryan is to noir what Klaus Kinski is to Euro cinema.

[@1977Suspiria]

@@CerealAtMidnight One of the best of the Golden-age Hollywood tough guys. He often plays a great bastard like in Clash By Night, Bad Day At Black Rock, Odds Against Tomorrow & Crossfire.

[@1977Suspiria]

@@ripmurdock6975 Indicator put out a cracking BluRay release of The Reckless Moment, it's one of my favourite of their single releases actually. It's definitely a noir gem, one of a number of good ones Joan Bennett starred in.

[@anniekeller6351]

Film Noir & pulp fiction in addition to horror are such a huge part of adult bed time story telling. One film I would consider to be Film Noir is Glengary Glen Ross which is not a crime story but has the cinematic techniques of Film Noir. This style is so great & I look forward to every one I discover.

[@thekazdoyclosetwithjerryka1013]

An excellent introduction to a big, big topic and one of my favorite genres. (Style? Still pondering that idea.) I would like to add the femme fatale element. While the boys were off fighting in the war, many wives went to work, often for the first time, and were also changed by that experience. When their husbands returned home, they were surprised to find their wives gained a new sense of independence and suddenly Suzy Homemaker was now Rosy the Riveter. That’s why so many female noir characters appear distrustful and threatening. And then there’s foreign film noir, but that’s another story…

[@VanessaButtino]

I could not stop my head from nodding along in agreement at practically everything you said. This discussion was fantastic, Heath, thank you. Speaking for myself, I cautiously started watching films noir for the first time when I was a young teen. I say "cautiously" because I was very intimidated by noir to begin with. The style of noir, the books that had been written about noir and the reputation of noir scared me because I honestly believed that film noir was way beyond what I could ever understand or appreciate. I felt like it was far above me for the longest time. Little did I know that I had already experienced the beginnings of film noir when watching classics like The Thin Man, Scarface and the 1930s-era Universal horror movies (all of which you mentioned in your video). I loved those movies but never ever connected them to noir until I started exploring the noir style/genre later on.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Well said! Film academia has done a lot--whether accidental or deliberately--to make noir so intimidating that new and younger movie fans approach it like it's Shakespeare, or they don't approach it at all. These movies were meant for everyone, and the more people who can watch and enjoy these movies, the better. So glad you feel similarly, since you know how much I respect your knowledge and enthusiasm as a cinephile.

[@Zozo-K-]

Excellent topic! Your stylistic comparison between classic horror and film noir is completely valid. I watch a lot of noir films and one I watched recently that I don’t see mentioned too often, but was really good, was Quicksand, from 1950, directed by Irving Pichel (right before he was blacklisted by the House Un-American Activities Committee) and starring Mickey Rooney and Peter Lorre. If you haven’t seen it, give it a watch…good stuff.

[@mitch89014]

Totally forgot one my all time favorites, Pickup on South Street

[@colleenurban7673]

i loved film noir, even as a child. i watched tons of them. im writing a story and want to use the film noir style to tell it. thanks for the overview. i nominate mildred pierce as.one of the greats in this style.

[@SuperThebillybob]

He Ran All the Way I'd say is a hidden gem of a Noir that is pretty stylish. Would reccomend people track it down.

[@jarednotthesubwayguy6151]

“Panic in the streets” is a good one

[@Whisky_4_1]

small world. I grabbed the blu-ray of Panic... at Big Lots. It was good

[@jarednotthesubwayguy6151]

I got my copy at Big Lots too lol

[@Whisky_4_1]

@@jarednotthesubwayguy6151 lol, nice...sort of poignant plot.

[@adambanas6365]

Sometimes when I watch older films I feel like an anthropologist studying an older culture, like there's an element of curiosity to my viewing experience. It's not a negative or a hindrance, because the beauty of earlier films is that they still contain relatable human characters and stories. The point is sometimes with older films I'm surprised by this engagement rather than expecting it, like I would be when watching a modern film, if that makes sense. (As a counterpoint, a lot of modern films can be surprisingly lacking in engagement) As you do more videos on film noir I'm looking forward to hearing you talk about more modern / neo-noir films. My recommendation is David Lynch's Blue Velvet. It was a film that really stood out to me as being unsettling and uncomfortable. Going back to my earlier point, I feel the impact of that film on me must translate to what audiences experienced watching original noir-style films at the time. Basically they both deal with immoral people but it reframes the scope of the immorality for our modern world.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Film is the closest we will ever come to a time machine. I truly believe that.

[@popretro1]

Finally got to watch. Great vid! I like the edited dive into a specific subject, especially noir (because you love it!). Now off to dig out my Maltese Falcon DVD & spin some of these mentioned flicks!

[@sungod86]

I recommend "Shield for Murder" from 1954 with Edmond O'Brien. A very gritty B-noir.

[@davidosborn6714]

Anything with the great Charles McGraw, particularly THE NARROW MARGIN and ARMORED CAR ROBBERY. Also recommend Alan K. Rode's excellent bio of McGraw.

[@evyled]

The Big Clock is one of my favorite first time watches of this year. Great noir!

[@nosonovmine]

My top 3 favorite noir: 1. Double Indemnity 2. Out Of The Past 3. Detour BUT in terms of German expressionism influences, and thriller and surreal beauty....one of my all time favorite films Night Of The Hunter

[@slave_to_cinema]

Haha your whole intro and set up made me laugh in a good way! Continuing to love the channel. A couple of my favs that come to mind are Double Indemnity and Lady in the Lake. I always liked Robert Montgomery as Philip Marlow. Its also an amazing movie from a technical stand point.

[@jmplese]

Just getting into noir. Really excited for the journey.

[@billg7813]

There are so many streaming channels today offering junk garbage movies that are so atrocious to watch I wonder if a high school drama class made the movie. I frequently find myself searching for noir. Great acting, great stories and great cinematography. Junk directors today compensate for their lousy directing of lousy scripts with explosions and CGI. Give me noir.

[@vuuk]

Great video and overview of Film noir. My favorite and recommendation would be the briiliant Double Indemnity.

[@benmelman9505]

I would like to see some horror flicks fused with noirish elements like BLUE VELVET and BLOOD SIMPLE. That's my favorite kind of genre hybrid --- even more than sci-fi horror (Alien) and sci-fi noir (Blade Runner) and fantasy noir, fantasy horror, comedy noir, etc.

[@monsieurbojangles2336]

Was just watching the little mini doc in the extras for The Maltese Falcon. There's a segment within it where Film Noir is discussed by various film makers which i thought was pretty interesting.

[@martinmoreno2395]

Hey Heath, just have to say that Gun Crazy is definitely one of my favorites! Great video thank you!

[@user-qv6gy3co9k]

Film Noir definition: A term to describe an overused theory.

[@paulhuggins233]

2021 is the year I decided to go deeper into the film noir hole, so I'm glad to see this video (I'm also proud to have my name in the credits). I'll throw out some quick recommendations: Directed by Fritz Lang: M (not really film noir, but a massive influence),The Big Heat, Scarlet Street, The Woman in the Window, Ministry of Fear, While the City Sleeps Directed by Billy Wilder: Sunset Boulevard, Double Indemnity, Ace in the Hole With Humphrey Bogart: The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, Key Largo, Dark Passage, Deadline U.S.A., In a Lonely Place With Robert Mitchum: Out of the Past, Crossfire (with Robert Ryan, who also stars in the essential The Set-Up), The Night of the Hunter With Vincent Price and Gene Tierney: Laura, Leave Her to Heaven International style: Akira Kurosawa's High and Low, Jean-Pierre Melville's Le Samourai and Army of Shadows, Carol Reed's Odd Man Out and The Third Man Neo-Noir - Chinatown, LA Confidential, and Christopher Nolan's The Following & Memento

[@tomford4180]

Nice, Paul! A lot of great suggestions there.

[@downinthemuff]

Great video! Noir is a “style” that I’m only just getting into, i always remember watching old black and white movies as a child but never really appreciating them as much as my Grandad. I’ve now come to realise that there are some real gems out there waiting to be discovered. I’ve recently picked up a few Blu’s to get me started on the road to Noir, Arrow Academy’s The Killing, Eureka Masters of cinema releases of Double Indemnity and Touch of Evil and Criterion’s superb Detour Blu Ray. I thank you for this very interesting and educational video.

[@theman2017inc]

With “Defining Film Noir” from Jack’s Movie Reviews and “Understanding Film Noir” by Jeffrey Stillwell, this is a great additional video that serves as a introduction into Film Noir, what makes it tick cinematically as well as stand out as a genre or as you stated “film style” Plus this is my favourite, as it really clarified it for me. Many thanks, Heath 🙏🏿

[@TheAlexZorba]

Good call on The Maltese Falcon. Not only is it my favorite Noir film but one of my favorite movies period. I know its a 21st century film and in color but I recently picked up the movie Brick from KLs last sale. Damn good flick thats pays homage in great way.

[@griffenbrd]

Great video, thanks

[@shrug_shrugsly]

Delicious. Thank You omg so great and thank you!! I can’t get enough noir and appreciate great videos on the topic. ❤❤❤❤

[@mauriciohalo2081]

When I was younger I saw these movie “the specialist” Sylvester Stallone!! I lately saw it again, even through the music I was like how did I not know, this is a Noir !! They tried it with the Batman, but I wasn’t loving it

[@iakona23]

I recommend the post WW2 black and white films of Carol Reed. These films have superb cinematography. Specifically I refer to The Fallen Idol, The Third Man, Odd Man Out, The Man Between, Outcast of the Islands and Our Man in Havana.

[@qidude11]

Is Our Man In Havana noir? It had noir-ish visual elements but came down to being a comedy, a spoof of bureaucracy. To me that's like calling Airplane! a thriller. What do you think? P. S. If you like Alec Guinness as a dark comedy actor, be sure to check out Kind Hearts and Coronets. I think that movie is Peak Funny Alec Guinness.

[@iakona23]

@@qidude11 Our Man in Havana is a political satire with dark comedy elements. Graham Greene is one of the great writers of the 20th Century and Carol Reed adapted many of his works into movies. I’m not sure if any of Carol Reed’s works are totally film noir but I am a huge fan of his movies.

[@Warrrkotka]

This is short but informative and inclusive. And opposite of gatekeeping. The vibe I get from this vid is basically: hey, that's noir, it's black and white and old but it's just film, no need to stress, you might like it, try it... and that's very encouraging. I also like choices you made in this vid. Blank background and even black glasses... there are no distractions so it's easy to focus on what you're saying plus it's consistent with noir. Nice. PS. I always thought about noir as a genre.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Thanks for the kind words! The noir genre Vs style debate is endless! Decades and decades later, there’s still no consensus.

[@blu-rayswithnathanjones]

Great highlight and discussion, Heath! I liked that you discussed the distinction between style and genre, which is very interesting to tackle. I'm of the mind that those films can be both, however most noirs can be classified as crime thrillers. But I'm not a fan of splitting hairs, so I'm comfortable with either. Thanks for making this Heath, you did an excellent job!

[@That-guyyy]

I always watch old film noir films with my great grandfather, he was born in 40’ and went through some similar events such as these films

[@griffredux9966]

Very interesting topic! I don't know a lot about Film Noir. I agree with you that it is more of a style over a genre though! Might have to pick up a couple and give 'em a watch :)

[@TorontoJon]

'Blade Runner' is an homage to Film Noir, especially when it originally had Harrison Ford's cheesy narration much like private eye or Sam Spade-type narration (which he did as poorly as possible hoping that Ridley Scott would reject it or having any narration at all). In fact, it would be cool to watch 'Blade Runner' in black and white to make it feel even more Film Noir-esque. :)

[@doktor_ghul]

The best film noir documentary I've found so far is Bringing Darkness To Light (Film Noir Documentary). This one will nail the lid on the coffin as far as knowing what noir is.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Yes indeed! That's the documentary that's included on the Gun Crazy Blu-ray from Warner Archive. It's wonderful.

[@deadlyninja112]

Currently writing a noir/cosmic horror video game and stuff like sin city and max payne has heavily inspired me thank you for this video and opening up the discussion it really helped me pin down certain themes involved in the style.

[@afterwit3620]

So glad you're covering this in more detail. A film that really supports the "style not genre" claim is Dark City (the director's cut is best, as it avoids the studio-mandated and spoiler-filled voiceover narration). It's a weird one and has plot surprises built in, so if you're inclined to see it, don't read or watch much about it or it'll be ruined.

[@artirony410]

are you referring to the 1950 movie with Charlton Heston? You got me curious and I just wanna make sure I watch the right one

[@afterwit3620]

@@artirony410 I'm referring to the 1998 film. It stars Rufus Sewell, Jennifer Connelly, William Hurt and Keifer Sutherland. It's typically classified as Sci-fi/Noir. Now you've got me curious about the Heston film. I hadn't heard of it, but will definitely check it out. Thanks!

[@mikedressel6785]

Thanks, Heath! That was an excellent trip down the alley of Film Noir. Personally, I really found the DVD "Film Noir: Bringing Darkness to Light" to be an excellent introduction to the genre.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

That’s the documentary that’s included on the Gun Crazy disc I recommended in this episode! It really is the best intro I’ve seen.

[@artirony410]

I think it'd be cool too to look at the influence of noir in foreign cinema like with some of Kurosawa's works like Stray Dog and Drunken Angel. I know Criterion has an Eclipse Series box (number 17) of a few noir movies made by the studio Nikkatsu back in the day.

[@Dhskzhsjsozb]

Very interesting video, Noir is probably one of the most cinematic genres imo. It would be very cool to list all the films you shown during the video !

[@creepercreep6071]

Great video Heath! From which movie is the picture you put right after The Lady from Shanghai picture?

[@CerealAtMidnight]

If you're talking about Lee Van Cleef, that comes from The Big Combo.

[@creepercreep6071]

@@CerealAtMidnight Thank you!

[@jaredmiller7365]

Asphalt Jungle was a recent watch that completely captured my interest and was amazing. Of course, once I knew it was a John Huston film I had to watch. That is a good example of a later noir but I would also recommend The Postman Always Rings Twice and Born to Kill for the classics sometimes pushed under the rug. Lawrence Tiereny in Born to Kill is brutal and fantastic.

[@togussatakashi823]

Blade Runner is my favorite film noir movies. That and Casablanca.

[@mikedressel6785]

Hey, Heath. I have a channel topic recommendation for you. I've never seen a KZbin video where someone is talking about the differences in transfers. You know, for example, many companies will put out a particular film on disc and one might be a "bargain basement" transfer (think Olive), and another company put out the same film using a better transfer (think Arrow, Shout Factory, etc.). Since often times collectors, like us, are wanting to track down the best possible edition of a film, many newbies might want to know that a particular film might have multiple releases and / or transfers in the marketplace. Just a thought. Thanks, my friend.

[@kenzauter6626]

Odds Against Tomorrow & The Third Man are my two favorites.

[@HeroJournalism]

3:31 - anyone know what movie this still is from?

[@UsurpersAndAssassins]

I love film noir. It's so interesting, and the stories are so human. The exploration of human emotions really makes me think about the characters.

[@themovievault]

Loved this video, thanks 👍🏻 Looks good in 4k 🙌🏻

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Cheers, brother. Yeah, this is my first 4K effort in years. Won't do it for everything, but for videos like this, it really helps, I think.

[@themovievault]

@@CerealAtMidnight I've really noticed the difference in switching, must talk tech stuff the next time we get the chance, might have some info for you in regards to uploads etc 👍🏻

[@CerealAtMidnight]

4K mafia, here I come!

[@perryfan49]

Hudson Hawk reminds me of a sort of Noir film.

[@iakona23]

This is a great video and I don't disagree with anything that you said. I would agree with you to just try to watch good movies and to adopt a broad definition of film noir. Check out "The Breaking Point" with John Garfield. Patricia Neal is a superb femme fatale in that one. "In a Lonely Place" with Humphrey Bogart is also very good.

[@bjlowe85]

In a lonely place is my fav noir I have seen so far only seen about 20 or so but. Great recommendation but sure heath knows about it.

[@1977Suspiria]

The Breaking Point ending is heartbreaking.

[@iakona23]

@@1977Suspiria Yes it is. And the little boy waiting for his father at the end really was the son of the actor who was playing his father.

[@praapje]

Personally I like the B-movie noirs, little known titles like Blonde Ice (1948) or Strange Impersonation (1946) and a real gem like Decoy (1946).

[@ironclaw79]

Do you have the criterion nikatsu noir collection?IF so what you think about it?

[@CerealAtMidnight]

I don't have it. Looks cool, though!

[@lior-h]

This was a good primer. I hope to see a follow-up perhaps with some specific movies. Some of my favorites in the genre (sorry, style!) are Scarlet Street, The Big Heat, Laura... all with extraordinary femme fatales. To my incredible shame I am yet to see Double Indemnity so no film noir pin for me until I do.

[@colleenurban7673]

really loved asphalt jungle and niagra.

[@punkronn3624]

I love Noir. I was pretty much hooked after watching Out of the Past in a film class. Over the years I have watched a ton and some of my favorites are Detour that criterion restoration is amazing. One of my favorites that is as well known is Deadline at Dawn. Double indemnity, the glass key, blue Dahlia, murder my sweet, thieves highway, kiss of death, sweet smell of success, nightmare alley, the big heat are all amazing and a good place to start.

[@samconnick]

Good stuff

[@londonmockett8952]

I got really weirdly worded reading to do in my film class I’m just gonna watch this video instead

[@SnakeNel]

Excellent, informative video, with evocative pictures chosen. OUT OF THE PAST, GUN CRAZY , THE SET UP and MURDER, MY SWEET are available on a Warner Archive blu-ray set at a reasonable price. Excellent introduction to many of the aspects of noir. My favorite books on noir are "Dark City" by Eddie Muller and "Out of the Past" by Barry Gifford. "Dark City" was well organized and has fascinating back stories about the creative talents that worked on the best noirs. It is coming out in an expanded, revised hardcover in July, so I would grab that. "Out of the Past" is a reissue of "The Devil Thumbs a Ride" and is missing the BLUE VELVET review from that edition, but has additional reviews. Gifford, who wrote WILD AT HEART and PERDIDA DURANGO, was also responsible for the excellent Black Lizard paperback line that reprinted key noir writers such Jim Thompson and David Goodis. Gifford's reviews are very personal and beautifully written. Also, "Suspects" by David Thomson is for more advanced readers, as he covers the back stories and future lives of many of the main noir characters. Unfortunately, this is long out of print and hard to track down.

[@ripmurdock6975]

Great video 👍 Watching film noir gives me a feeling that no other style / genre can. Kind of a cool, fatalistic melancholy. Couple of my favourite, slightly lesser known films would be Fallen Angel with Dana Andrews, which has a cool 'drifter' noir feel and Cornered with Dick Powell which has a very bleak, post-war European noir vibe. Split Second is really cool too and fits into the atomic/nuclear noir sub genre. Such great films, they need to be preserved and treasured.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

"Cool, fatalistic melancholy" is as good a description of noir as I've ever heard. Very accurate.

[@bjlowe85]

Amazing video mate alot of effort went into this I can tell. I love film noir but I personally have only seen what most would call the classics. I really wanna get into some of the B noirs to expand my viewing. It really has taken off again but thanks to amazing company's like arrow academy making new fans like me to appreciate these films all over again. Thanks for the video loved it

[@CerealAtMidnight]

The classics are the best place to start! We’re lucky that so many companies are releasing the more obscure films in these latter days of Blu-ray. Kino has 4 noir box sets, Imprint has 2, indicator has several as well, and even Mill Creek and VCI partnered to release three volumes of deep cuts. We’ve got it so good right now.

[@bjlowe85]

Sure do plus the amazing box sets indicator are releasing its the year for noir recently

[@ripmurdock6975]

Some of B noirs are awesome and very rewarding. I'm sure there are a ton I haven't seen but some of the cooler B ones I have are Armoured Car Robbery with tough guy Charles McGraw, Sealed Cargo which is more of a noirish war drama, and Kansas City Confidential which features a young Lee Van Cleef.

[@GlenHallstrom]

My Fave Noir List, in no particular order: Detour The Set-Up Crossfire Murder, My Sweet The Asphalt Jungle Crime Wave (VERY underrated noir) I Wake Up Screaming Lady in the Lake The Narrow Margin Somewhere in the Night The Big Combo Nightmare Alley The Killers The Killing His Kind of Woman! (a comedy-noir)

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Excellent list! Murder My Sweet is so good, especially considering Dick Powell's "song and dance man" background. He really hit another gear with that one.

[@GlenHallstrom]

@@CerealAtMidnight Definitely. I also like the remake (Farewell, My Lovely). Mitchum makes a great Marlowe.

[@davidosborn6714]

The Warner DVD of CRIME WAVE is essential if for no other reason than than James Ellroy and Eddie Muller's hysterically funny and loopy audio commentary (the loopiness is pretty much all Ellroy; Muller is basically the designated driver here). Almost funnier than the commentary track itself is Warner's decision to bleep out Ellroy's many expletives, doubtless to protect the sensibilities of 12-year old film noir fans everywhere.

[@GlenHallstrom]

@@davidosborn6714 I'll second that. The Devil Dog himself is a great listen, right up there with Hunter S. Thompson's commentary track on Criterion's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas disc.

[@colleenurban7673]

my fave tv show of all time is perry mason. especially the early days were.very noir.

[@TheGhostofGonzo5586]

I may be completely wrong, but I think Film Noir is akin to Science Fiction. Science Fiction can be Horror, Action/Adventure, comedy, ect. Film Noir can be a Mystery/Suspense, Thriller, or straight up Crime Drama. Other genres can cloak themselves in tropes, elements, or setting from Noir or Sci Fi to bolster their story. Take a monster movie, set it in the future, place it on a spaceship, and you have Alien. Just a thought.

[@anonymouzzz4307]

Such a cool aesthetic

[@Whisky_4_1]

This may sound too mainstream, but I really enjoy three contemporary Noire flicks: Hollywoodland, Live By Night and The Black Dahlia. DePalma nails it with Black Dahlia.

[@joelwoods7149]

Odds Against Tomorrow, House of Bamboo, The Set-Up, The Big Heat, Nightmare Alley, Leave Her to Heaven, Night and the City, Rififi, Kiss Me Deadly, Brute Force, Laura, Gilda, I Wake Up Screaming, Pitfall, Kiss of Death and so so many more. I've always loved noir, but the first half of lockdown was pretty much all noir all the time.

[@darrenblizzard3851]

Excellent video Heath and a very accurate and succinct introduction to film noir. I love how you weaved the influences of earlier films, German expressionism as well as history of what was going on in the world (2 world wars and lots of post war trauma and poverty and suffering) to highlight how this perfect storm of things caused the evolution of the noir stylings, plus a good way to artistically cover up lower budgets as you said. Personally I think noir is a style as well rather than a genre...but ...I will say that is the case ORIGINALLY. I think it's now interchangeable between style and genre because in the genre sense there is a whole raft of historical films that can now be categorised under this genre...but yes it's also a style. E.g. If you look at IMDB for example it will classify thing like Drama, Romance etc. The styles used in these can be anything depending on the film maker and their vision for such genres but they also use film noir as a category.. my take is those are all genre categories and IMDb would use it as such as I don't see any other categories there which could double as a style. So ...for me noir is (TODAY anyway) both a stylistic/thematic approach to making a film as well as a genre in its own right to help categorise the myriad of films from the 40s and 50s which apply many of these stylistic and thematic choices which commonly inhabit the noir genre, the sorts of characters we see and their behaviour and attitude etc. Also you referenced Detour...man that is such an awesome (and compact!) Film. That scene where he is playing piano after hours in such a depressing and cynical way is just classic...and beautifully epitomises everything that is noir. It's great to see noir still rear its head in modern films (like Blade Runner) and when it's done well it really is a standout.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Thanks for the kind words! I personally draw a hard line at 1959 as the end of noir and believe everything afterward is a neo noir (which lends credence to neo noir or noir as a genre, but fixed as a style in its primary movement), but I didn't want to say that in this video because goodness knows viewers don't need more boundaries and limits as I try to shine a light on movies that intimidates so many people! Again, thanks for what you've brought to the conversation here.

[@darrenblizzard3851]

@@CerealAtMidnight no worries. I get why you tried to keep it simple and about style. I think that was a good approach. Now here is a question. If simply talking style... Do you see any difference between those stylistic/thematic/character trait/motivation of film noir with those of neo-noir? Do you think all those same elements are relevant (to varying degrees), do you think neo-noir has added to/expanded on classic noir in any way? I personally think neo-noir is a lot harder to get right. If you try too hard it can actually backfire (like Soderbergh's The Good German which I really didn't think quite worked). Something more subtle like a sci-fi steeped in noirish stylings like Blade Runner can work well .. though I'll argue the original theatrical with Ford narration works better as a neo-noir sci-fi. And partly accidentally as Scott/Ford didn't want to to do the narrative approach but as you know the studio forced it to make it more palatable to audiences. From what I've read Ford did it reluctantly and half heartedly (paraphrasing my memory here) but to me that cynical/tired way he narrates it actually lends itself to a more authentic noir feel! And of course other modern films have brilliantly tapped into the noirish traits like the great Chinatown (arguably the best neo noir example?). So it's easy to come up with comparison to standard noir and pick things out but just wondering on your thoughts on what neo-noir might have added? Obviously one thing it does well (e.g. Blade Runner) is that it does a great job of transplanting those same themes and characters to a future location/time and still make it feel hard boiled 40s. I think it tends to be broader though...looser...less tightly plotted, higher budgets and less artificial. Still cynical and bleak though... But just goes about it in a bit of a different way. Not sure how well I'm explaining my thoughts on the subtle differences though! I think a lot of those directors who started neo-noir in the 70s grew up on classic noir and introduced these partly because of personal inspiration/nostalgia but partly as tributes back to classic noir archetypes and themes. Ah man such a deep area of cinema for a KZbin comment lol. This needs to be discussed over beer and pretzels lol. You will definitely need more vids on this topic!

[@CerealAtMidnight]

I think some Neo Noirs work well and others feel very forced. You can put on the clothes, but if the filmmaker doesn’t understand the place of trauma, self-doubt, anger, and search for identity that ran through every classic noir, then it’s not going to connect like it should. I agree about Chinatown. The recent Motherless Brooklyn is one of the finest Neo Noirs I’ve ever seen. At any rate, I’ll definitely be doing a spotlight on Neo Noir at some point. I’d like to let this one get discovered and grow first, but it’s in my plans!

[@darrenblizzard3851]

@@CerealAtMidnight thanks for those insights and I'm glad you are doing something to promote noir as IMHO the 40s and early 50s is one of the greatest era of filmmaking there is and the more people who discover this era (particularly noir but of course not just noir) the better! Hmm thanks for the tip on Motherless Brooklyn. . I have heard the name bandied about but never really paid much attention and didn't realise it was a neo noir! I'll go and hunt that down at once!

[@CerealAtMidnight]

I reviewed Motherless Brooklyn, but my video flew pretty far under the radar. I hope you enjoy it! kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpS0k5SoqbKlhM0

[@danboy77]

I always wondered if Mulholland Drive qualify’s as Film Noir?

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Anything noir-like after 1959 fits nicely into the neo-noir category. I think Mullholland Drive (and Mullholland Falls!) are definitey neo-noir, but I personally think noir as a label only applies to 1940-1959. These are points that are endlessly debated though.

[@Whisky_4_1]

If your a casual gamer, you may not have checked out LA Noire. Terrific stylish game.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

La Noire does a ton to actually teach the player all about film noir. Even tracking down all the movie title Easter eggs.

[@Whisky_4_1]

@@CerealAtMidnight Cool, cool,cool. I think you could do an awesome video that's a guide to the films that inspired, or are otherwise essential viewing to anyone playing LA Noire. There is a top 5 from 10 years ago but you could crush it.

[@GreatBritishDude-28]

Did you know that “film noir” is also made an aesthetic?

[@aaronjennings8385]

If people in the industry knew this, Blade Runner would be easier for them to recreate.

[@ClassicScreamsVideo]

Film Noir is a great style, there are some awesome films in it

[@giorgos_mark8401]

Dial M for murder which i just saw for the first time brought me here. Had to learn what film noir actually is.

[@robinharwood5044]

Hats, cigarettes, wisecracks, rainy streets, and Venetian blind shadows.

[@robinharwood5044]

A flashing neon sign with a missing letter “HOT L” helps too.

[@whatitis4872]

I guess I dont know what film noir is. I guess its a matter of definition vs concept. Different people have different definitions for what words mean and part of the name of the game is to all learn the terminology so that theres a common language. With some things this is easy to do, not so with others. To me Film Noir meant dark sultry camera work and slow sax music. In my flawed definition of Noir, Id say Howard the Duck, Dirty Harry, Play Misty For Me, The Beguiled, Body Double, Dressed to Kill, Raising Cain , The Big Easy are all Noir. Then again , its true classic noir Has strong black and white contrast and is fairly dark, but if one is to use this definition then every early black and white film is noir since their all like that cuz the cameras were not all that great and the recordings were pretty dark.

[@alexbraid8700]

I do enjoy noir. I guess literally it means dark. These days it's tv crime I've been watching. Nordic noir like The Bridge and The killing. Although I prefer the US version of The Killing..especially the 1st season...then you've the British Shetland and Hinterland

[@richardmcleod1930]

"FILM NOIR" is a new term that is totally unknown to the people having made such films primarily in the 1940's and 1950's. Such films could never be filmed today as first of all they are "politically incorrect" and people smoke many, many cigarettes in the films which is not allowed today. And they are all in Black and White.

[@FernandoPereira-xn4ij]

Here in Brazil we have a label called Versatil that released 17 dvd boxsets (so far) with more than 100 noir movies (at least 6 in each boxset - some have 7). Their instagram is @versatilhv, I don't know if you can buy the boxsets from the US but take a look, they are really great editions.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Oh my, those are some beautiful box sets!

[@FernandoPereira-xn4ij]

@@CerealAtMidnight later I will post some pictures of those box sets on the intagram and tag you up. I got all of them! =)

[@nelsonmaud1]

my favorite is film naire i think alfred hitchcock made some great ones my faves are rear window and rope stranger on a train robert mitchum made some great ones too

[@quadb723]

Brick, The Nice Guys, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid

[@monkeker]

Would you consider Who Framed Roger Rabbit to be a film noir?

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Well, I would say Roger Rabbit is a family comedy that gets to play with the ideas of film noir because the story takes place during the golden age of Hollywood. If it works as a primer for people to get them curious about dark forties and fifties films, that’s a good thing.

[@artirony410]

I'd call it a loving tribute to the genre

[@GlenHallstrom]

'Bout time! :D Nah, JK bro. Great episode on a style I love.

[@patrickskramstad1485]

Is lethal weapon a type of Film noir?

[@CerealAtMidnight]

Nah, it’s just fun action.

[@patrickskramstad1485]

@@CerealAtMidnight A saxophone 🎷 A hero losing his mind to the point of being suicidal. A few raining shots. To me there are film noir elements. :)

[@jacobbaranowski]

Detective and very dark all black and white, it's a felling of suspence

[@vegasbackgrounds3426]

4:01 please go into the weeds!

[@Xharaly]

Is "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" film noir?

[@CerealAtMidnight]

I would say Who Framed Roger Rabbit is an 80s family movie that has fun with the noir archetypes. The books that the movie is based on are very much a send-up of the classic pulps of the forties. I love that movie so much, though!

[@joshua2814]

It's probably the OCD in me or just resenting when the category becomes so broad as to be meaningless (like just calling "Casablanca" film noir as opposed to influenced by it) that I tend to define proper film noir (as opposed to noir-esque or modern noir) very tightly. I really only feel comfortable in saying "that's definitely film noir" not only when it has the proper Chiaroscuro lighting and bleak worldview, but a clear femme fatale and a jaded investigator lead. The problem is that eliminates movies that are clearly noir like "Scarlet Street" or even "Double Indemnity" (depending on whether an insurance agent counts as an investigator); so, I try to keep a little bit of fluidity there. At any rate, whether it's true noir or noir-esque, I like a lot of it.

[@spaztekwarrior]

Interesting lighting and contrast... lots of fedoras :)

[@user-gs2zv8sy4l]

Blade Runner, noir? Yea or nay?

[@CerealAtMidnight]

I would say Blade Runner is a neo-noir science fiction film. It has hallmarks of film noir, but it’s made decades after the noir era, it’s looking back at the trend long after it ended. Blade Runner doesn’t exist without the influence noir had on it. It’s neo, new, inspired by noir. Also, it’s a huge studio movie with a big budget and tons of special effects, and none of those are hallmarks of noir. That’s my take, anyway!

[@afsl808]

Gone girl is noir?

[@flyballhdeg9775]

That's a great title for your channel. So "noir." 😅

[@arnepianocanada]

A bit unfocused. Best to plan your script with a bit more care; no big rush to speak erratically.

[@CerealAtMidnight]

I'm actually very proud of this one and I think it turned out like I had hoped. Sorry you didn't connect with it.

[@heavyflamerheresy2581]

Sin city, lucky number sleven, cowboy bebop, the boondocks, Peaky Blinders. And if you want video games there is max payne.