A Giant Issue: Who Is Joe Schoen?

[@CjKelly-v8j]

Everything u said was facts. U just got yourself another sub 👍

[@CoachGeneClemons]

Thank you. I'm sure I will say something you do not agree with. Hopefully you stick with me.

[@WPetinaudJr]

Very thorough and fair assessment! I do staffing and HR for a living and clocked the GM on the Bradberry release as well and thought that was extremely ruthless and unbecoming. I was counting down until the player community started to become leery of the GM. I have a bad read on the coach as well. He does not project as the type of leader who can balance holding his players accountable without extreme reactions both from the coddling side and the out right rage that we’ve seen. Daboll can’t even keep a staff. They probably had to give Kafka a raise to convince him to stick around in some capacity last year. The projections are below the cellar.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

That's really fair

[@0ff-Broadway369]

As a owner/manager, thats 🎯

[@StuckinNOVA]

Bradberry was salary cap related.

[@WPetinaudJr]

​@@StuckinNOVA We know that. It's not that it was salary cap related. It was how Schoen did it. It appears he tried to run the clock out to the degree that Bradberry had fewer options. Schoen also (once again) miscalculated his talent's market and capabilities.

[@0ff-Broadway369]

Coach Gene! 33 minutes of BARS! Thank you sir, I will be tuning in tomorrow.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

Thank you

[@Reklawz]

Great show Coach! Spot on! Schoen has been a total embarrassment ever since the Brian Flores issue.

[@StuckinNOVA]

What about the Brian Flores issue? He just didn’t choose to hire him. All the other stuff were Belechick and others. Flores was also coming off a tenure in Miami where he sounded like Joe Judge part II.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

​@@StuckinNOVAthat's not true at all. He was far more successful than Judge. He just was not friendly. Not every head coach needs to be friendly. Miami fired him, spent all the money in the world on improvements, and they still are not better than when he was there.

[@Reklawz]

@StuckinNOVA What's your position if an employee got you sued because they didn't take the job seriously? Seriously I mean knowing the rules of hiring a head coach and conducting himself that does not bring negative attention to your business on and off of the clock.

[@dandifusco1868]

Love your profile pods coach. Great insight on football

[@CoachGeneClemons]

I appreciation it

[@Frank08046]

You're talking about Schoen, but it reminds me of Dave Gettlemann. This is more of a reflection on John Mara. They were saying similar things about Gettlemann. The common denominator is John Mara who hired both.

[@JohnFerraro-l9b]

You couldn’t be more correct. Scheon is Gettleman 2.0 and the common denominator for all the mistakes of the past decade has been John Mara.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

If you've watched this pod you know how I feel. DG was not great but not as bad as people made him out to be. JS is not great and not as good as people make him out to be.

[@Frank08046]

​@@CoachGeneClemonsI didn't think the word great and Schoen have ever been used by Giants fans. Gettlemann was a POS yes man. He got rid of leaders also. Antrel Rolle, Damon Harrison, and OBJ. Gettlemann was never successful as a GM.

[@powerbook76]

@@Frank08046 i am NOT defending Gettleman here but wasn't he pretty successful when he was the GM of the Panthers? Even 3 years after his removal from NYG, team's best players (ones they kept, ones they let go) are STILL Gettleman drafted players. Schoen/Daboll's most successful years were with Gettleman's players, and current roster, mostly Schoen guys, seem worse than Gettleman's roster. Gettleman's era in NYG was pretty bad but when it's always easier to talk in hindsight, it's harsh calling him POS and a YES MAN.

[@Frank08046]

@powerbook76 What did he win?

[@AlterMann57]

After watching the way Joe Schoen handled the entire fiasco with Saquon Barkley, that he created by gifted the enormous contract to Daniel Jones thus causing the Giants to be out of the market for re-signing Barkley and Xavier McKinney to contracts. Schoen appeared to be cocky and very full of himself when chatting about his best player, who eventually agreed to the contract offered by the wretched Philadelphia Eagles. I agree with Mr. Mara when he said he'd be losing sleep about that transaction. I think because of that transaction Schoen should have been kicked to the curb, but here we are allowing that worthless POS to make the choices in the Giants most important NFL Draft in decades. I am a former season ticket holder from the old days in Giants Stadium (I can't afford my old tix in MetLife), and I'll never buy another ticket for a Giants game until Schoen is gone.

[@powerbook76]

i wouldn't call DJ's contract enormous, when there are QBs that make even 60 millions per year. Schoen really had no choice but to sign Daniel Jones after he lead them to playoff. I can't think of a single team who got rid of their starting QB after getting a playoff win. It'd been awesome for them to sign DJ, Barkley, Mckinney AND Dexter Lawrence's contract extension but I don't think that was feasible either considering their team roster and cap spaces either. I was pretty shocked when Mara didn't fire Schoen/Daboll few days ago, but I think Schoen's biggest mistakes weren't with free agents and trades but how he failed horribly with his first 2 NFL drafts. Imagine if Evan Neal was next Andrew Thomas, if KT was Aidan Hutchinson, and if Banks turned out to be the shutdown corner. Things could've been better than how it turned out last few years

[@darksimmie2572]

​@powerbook76 yeah, that's not only his biggest problem, he sucks at trading as well. Trade for Waller when he already had injury history was a bad move. Trading for Burns and paying him big money, when were trying to rebuild is a bad move. Were doing everything backwards

[@powerbook76]

@@darksimmie2572 yup, without Waller's money they could've probably kept either Saquon or Mckinney... or even both.. then again, considering how Schoen's been doing business he probably didn't sign either even with Waller's money.

[@MrKnight960]

Wow, I appreciate your perspective! You're right about Joe's biggest crime. Which was letting a team devoid of talent walk out of the door. I don't have too much faith in the Giants right now. However, I really enjoy your posts, so keep up the good work.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

Thanks

[@MIDAZSITH]

Thanks, Coach. You summed it up. He’s been horrible since he took the position. And I agree!

[@FashionLawn]

Hats off c.g c talk that talk

[@CoachGeneClemons]

Yessir

[@larrythomas1591]

You spot on, when they tried 💩on you during the Barkley talk and the gm talk. I stopped watching them. Especially the ones that speak off emotions. Im locked in here because you speak with common sense. When you speak about Sanders or any other college kid you speak with sense and not piggy back off the sport analyst

[@CoachGeneClemons]

Exactly. I'm not claiming to always be right, but I'm bring my legitimate thoughts and perspective to it.

[@tonysantamaria19]

I have a hard time believing that the GM would let Love and McKinney leave without the coaching staff's approval. Why didn't the HC or DC speak up for those 2 players?

[@CoachGeneClemons]

Coach Wink parted ways with the team over philosophical differences. I'm pretty sure that likely had something to do with it.

[@powerbook76]

Schoen seems like he treats GM job like he's playing playstation game (treating players just based on their names and stats). Daboll? Pretty obvious Coach of the Year award got to his head acting like he's the next god given gift to NY football treating his coworkers like he owns them. Very disappointing considering both Schoen and Daboll were sought out coming from Buffalo's successful run. They just were NOT ready to take the job. Their early success 1st year was probably the worst thing that could've happened to them and it shows.

[@StuckinNOVA]

I don’t know about that Penn State winning the Natty. Those two teams left are pretty good. Ohio State kind of looks unstoppable at this point.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

You might be right OSU looks really good.

[@kelvinmack2574]

Continue this tomorrow coach

[@pwcho50]

I wonder if McCloud might have told Slayton about what happened. Slayton did tweet out “You’re free now,” or something to that effect, the week McCloud got cut

[@CoachGeneClemons]

I'm sure he told a bunch of guys something. Players talk to players.

[@dwill9768]

Schoen is a con man, easy read

[@JohnFerraro-l9b]

I agree and well put. Sadly, I think Mara is easily persuaded by a smooth talker.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

He does give that vibe

[@ronwan1408]

The fact that a lot of Giants fans wanted a QB like Allar over Sanders & Ward who are both better than him shows that this is more political rather than who’s the best prospect for the job.

[@isaacmor1248]

Snakes in the garden 🐍

[@CoachGeneClemons]

Most Def

[@brianjohnson9423]

I'd like to think of Joe in this sense and for most GM's in sports. Leave your feelings at the door because it's just business. Joe from day one wanted to burn the roster and start over. The Bradberry ordeal was the first sign. Not extending Daniel's rookie contract to a 5th year was another. Though I wasn't surprised by that since Joe said before his first presser is that he needed to cut salary. So now Joe for the most part has got his wish the roster rebuild. Lowered the morale of the locker room in the process. So far, it's not looking great for him. I'll just be over here with my🍿🥤watching the drama play out this off-season.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

It's definitely a drama

[@palerider6757]

My biggest issue is this, with all the info on Schoen coming out, and the fact that Mara has stated that they have 1 year to fix this, who's going to want to come here? What coordinator is going to want to come here? What players are going to want to come here? With how much disfunction there is in this franchise, they only way they will be able to bring people in is to over pay...which this team does every year. Edit- I think the Titans and Browns take Sanders and Ward leaving the Giants to go BPA. I think we take Hunter at 3 and then go for a QB in later rounds to serve as a backup to whoever they bring in when free agency opens. I don't see next year's team being any better then what we had this year.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

If they go Hunter at 3, I hope they let him be Hunter fully and there's a plan to cultivate that.

[@palerider6757]

@@CoachGeneClemons you think they would actually do that though? I see them playing him mostly at corner and only as a "trick piece" at WR from time to time. I say that because if he works out, a second contract at CB would be less then that at WR. Thoughts?

[@CoachGeneClemons]

​@@palerider6757I think you deal with that in five years. Right now you use him as a primary CB and as a WR2/3 type.

[@JohnFerraro-l9b]

Much to my personal disappointment, Joe Scheon and the media at the time convinced me that safety and running back were devalued and easily replaceable. After 50 years of watching football they still got me to buy into it. Love, McKinney and Barkley. Tell me now Joe Scheon if that equals Pinnock, Nubin and Tracy.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

Its unfortunately happened around the league.

[@dominickfiorello3603]

Skinner and you are on the same page . Not sure why you’d include them.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

No hate on him or others like him. I just wish we could footage about certain things more professionally.

[@JohnFerraro-l9b]

He can’t help but going on a Sanders tangent. I love the podcast, but enough, I get it, Coach loves Sanders. I hope we can get either Sanders or Ward, even though many in the scouting community aren’t particularly high on either. But I am a little surprised Coach seems to be so down on the likes of Dart and Allar. Gene is always high on getting, developing and retaining young talent. The fact is we may not get Sanders/Ward. If so, the next best is obtaining young talent with potential and developing it.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

My apologies if you think I'm on a Sanders tangent. I just want to make it clear that I'm not in the same boat as most of these evaluators. I don't think Allar is good. I never have. I think Dart is cool but I would not take him over Milroe and his talent upside. If Dart was a day 2 pick I'd rock with it and see what came from it but if they passed on Sanders, Ward to do that I would have questions.

[@JohnFerraro-l9b]

@@CoachGeneClemonsalways appreciate it when you send a reply Coach. Keep up the great work.

[@SimeonToko]

I want to know what Schoen is going to do now that we know Cleveland is going to take a QB. Sanders and Ward will be gone. Does not having "his QB" mean that we can move on from Schoen and Daboll now? I don't mind a GM having a cold pimp hand as long as he is good at the job. This guy would starve as a pimp.

[@LarryJ602]

Snake oil salesman who failed upwards. He cares about image and perception in hopes it overcompensates for his ignorance and inability to do his job effectively.

[@JohnFerraro-l9b]

As far as I’m concerned, Scheon is all talk and show. While Daboll, the QB whisperer, is a fraud.

[@darksimmie2572]

Player source is Nick McCloud agent, which is his brother. Easy to deduce it.

[@tomaxxamot2016]

There’s been too many incidents with him and the players ,he gives leadership no value that’s why this clown now has a 3 and 14 team on his hands

[@CoachGeneClemons]

It's why the talent has diminished

[@kennethperkins964]

They wanted him to give back part of a 2 million dollar contract

[@tomaxxamot2016]

Bobby Skinner and his parrot Justin are also clowns

[@CoachGeneClemons]

I think they say some stuff that makes sense. I just don't like when people insult intelligence.

[@jbx.7995]

Gm is a 1× gm he has proven lack of knowlage in giants style players

[@mahante]

I think what is missing in your assessment is the first 2 years Shoen was here, we were in salary cap hell. It took 2 years to get the horrible contracts off the books so he had to let players go he wanted to keep. The reason the nick Mc cloud story is a big deal is because there was no reason to ask him to take a pay cut at the time.

[@CoachGeneClemons]

That's fair, except the cap hell we were all told that we were in has been easily navigated by other front offices and the big contracts that existed belonged to good players outside of one person.

[@mahante]

@@CoachGeneClemons Galladay, Leonard Williams and Adoree Jackson were the big 3 that bogged us down. Those 3 contracts took up almost 25% of the cap space in 2022. That was why we could not resign some of the better players.

[@mahante]

@@CoachGeneClemons I just reread your comment about other front offices and I have to disagree with you. The dead money hits on those 3 contracts were 86 million.

[@JohnFerraro-l9b]

True, he inherited a lousy cap position. But, if he did such a great job how did we get into a cap position in year 3 where he needed to get a lousy $1m by cutting McClouds salary mid-season. As I recall, at the time we only had around $2m in cap space. Plus, the ridiculous contract he gave Jones resulted in a 24 cap hit oof an unbelievable $47m for that guy.

[@mahante]

@@JohnFerraro-l9b Daniel Jones contract was in line with a mediocre qb contract at the time. Comparing qb contracts to any other positional contracts is just a ploy for your narrative. Taking a bit over 1 year of the average in dead money is the aim of most contracts when they sign them because they know most contracts get terminated a year early. In other words that 47 million in dead money was the intent.

[@greenygreen4129]

A bad gm

[@kennethperkins964]

It doesn't matter doing a video kn this is pointless