A Gold Klon Centaur for $1100!? Reverb and PayPal Scam

[@mateuszt6498]

The biggest scam is thinking any pedal is worth $1100, let alone $7000.

[@maxpeck4154]

Kinda like a certain amp that starts with D that retailers and influencers won't say out loud but everyone knows which one they're talking about. It's a wooden box with electronic components in it. I don't care if it was made for Jesus.

[@godbyone]

Some things are worth if u have money and a pro . In classical world. Bows for violins can go for 50k 100k Violins. For even 2nd 3 rd chairs are in hundreds of thousands. To millions. First chairs are in the millions . A dumble. For a top level pro is great if they like that tone .why not have the best. I was front row in a tiny club heard Stevie Ray Vaughan. I could hear his playing acoustically. I was so close. But he did not have that. Srv Tone . Then next time I saw him play dumble. It was incredible. Same with. Eric Johnson. Front row dc that dumble was liquid. Sounding . I played one when I could have got at 10k. But Couldn’t do it at the time. There was no internet etc nobody wrote about. It I knew it was special. I was so clean and the sustain was beautiful.

[@godbyone]

Fortunately you get a archer. Klon. That is dead on The Jeff beck. Mod. Even has nos parts. And is very reasonable. Under 300 it’s the best of Klons. The beck mod is a tad cleaner .

[@TheFakeNewsFrog]

@@maxpeck4154 I don't know of a single retailer or influencer that doesn't call it a Dumble. The only time someone wouldn't use the name, is if they're selling/talking about a product (i.e. An amp, or pedal clone).

[@TheFakeNewsFrog]

@@godbyone You could buy them for $3000 brand new in the 80's... Heck, you could just buy the Kitty Hawk Dumble that's on Reverb for around £14K. It's still a hell of a lot cheaper than the $100K+ people are asking for them!

[@matt6l6]

Before I started buying and selling on reverb, I was scammed the other way as a seller on ebay. Two items I sold, the buyers claimed they never received. One even waited till the last possible day to file a claim, saying he'd been on vacation for a month. Luckily, I spent the extra money for a signature confirmation and won both cases. That would be my lesson for not getting scammed on the seller side....pay extra for the signature confirmation!

[@ryangunwitch-black]

PayPal be like: "Bro, you really thought you were getting a gold Klon Centaur with a low serial number for one-seventh of the current value? Sorry, we've decided you're in desperate need of an $1100 lesson. Bro."

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

😂

[@JohannesLabusch]

I can't watch this without thinking that the idea that 1200$ for a pedal is "a great deal" is totally absurd to begin with. In a recent blind test in a video by the JHS guys, the dude (a guy with tons of experience who works for a pedal company) misidentified a 20$ clone as "the real Klon".

[@davidperezgonzalez1839]

And jhs crew argue strong ideas against that vintage craziness. Today any top pedal builder boutique pedal can replicate 99% any vintage pedal, the sound is imposible to differentiate in a test, and imposible to identify in a band mix. If the pedal has a good quality, less noise and reliability, you have a better pedal no matter the model.

[@derekhand7904]

I don’t think pll are buy klons because they sound better then other’s pedals there buying the because there collectibles like beanie babies or baseball cards

[@alwlferventdreams2651]

Thanks for making this! I was scammed trying to buy an amp, they shipped me a knock off clutch… yeah, like a lady’s handbag, value like $7 in stead of the $750+shipping amp. Same deal, they said the item had been shipped and wouldn’t give me a refund, the seller told them that they sent the correct item and that I was lying. My appeal was dismissed and no supervisor would review my case. I seldom buy anything online unless it’s direct from the manufacturer anymore after that experience.

[@andrewfink8361]

Some advice for my fellow KZbin and musician friends….never ever buy music gear from sellers outside of the US. Even Canada! All of my musician friends here in Wisconsin have had nothing but issues and trouble, whenever they try and purchase gear outside of the US. Then, regarding Reverb, before I ever even consider purchasing something, I always message the seller first, get a conversation going, and many times will ask for additional pictures. This nearly guarantees you will not be caught in a scam. I have found with Reverb, you have to have a level of patience when it comes to hitting that purchase button. Just wanted to throw it out there in the Internet universe for my fellow friends to consider. Thanks for the video!

[@jamiemorgan4146]

Don’t ever sell to any EU country either.. you can read why in my deprecate post.

[@johnalmaden7361]

I am not 100% sure about this, but hearing the representative that helped you re-opened the case and provided the credit, she sounded like a Filipino specialist working for PayPal, if so, it makes me proud being a Filipino too :D

[@Theweeze100]

She was great!

[@AuntAlnico4]

She was great !

[@zachsmith3376]

Phillip McKnight was just talking about klons out of Germany $1500. He put the word out to reverb. It's a shame it's so bad we live in fraudulent times.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Yeah, it’s going around. I wasn’t aware of it but have seen several more since this one.

[@jamiemorgan4146]

From the beginning of time, there’s been fraud... it’s as old as Hookers

[@strangequark420]

It was mere weeks ago that I saw a gold Centaur on Reverb from Greece at $1,600 and change. I didn't add it to my watch list, but I went back to look about 10 minutes later, and the listing was gone. I came VERY close to buying it, but I knew I would have to spend way too much time trying to get my money back if it was a scam. Thank you for documenting and sharing your experience here.

[@trebleboost7]

Handled so well. Nice approach and glad it was resolved. PayPal has been solid at resolving a couple of fraudulent transactions I experienced.

[@ryanryan6207]

The lesson is if you think it may be a scam, don't buy. Contact the seller BEFORE you send money. I've had many sales where people ask good questions after they sent money. That's too late. Also, Reverb and PayPal will make it hard to get your refund as this video highlights. It shouldn't be this hard to get a resolution. There are a lot of scam buyers on Reverb as well.

[@EricSauerets]

Sorry to hear about this Michael. Keep up the great work!

[@johnmac8084]

You did well to stay cool on the phone, its' the best way, but easy to get upset when they're saying the scam is legit.

[@paperhanger29]

Thank goodness they corrected the .40 cents. We can all sleep now hahaha

[@fry9700]

Thanks for this video, buddy. I just went through a similar situation, but mine was only a $12 item. I did not know they could use fake tracking numbers. After watching your video, I went back and looked at the info, and it was clearly questionable. I appealed The ruling, and eBay overturned it in my favor for a refund. If a dishonest seller can use a fake tracking number that shows something was delivered, that is kind of scary.

[@mtchampion1831]

Ok so 2 weeks ago on Reverb this very thing happened to me with a 1965 Fender P Bass. Paypal did refund me immediately when I opened a dispute. Reverb however was very unhelpful and I personally have chosen to never use their website for purchases again. They are not validating their sellers properly. This problem occurred because of Reverb. I hate that because I enjoy Reverb and have used them for many years. This seller's store is still active on Reverb btw. Sad.

[@tomyurch957]

Thanks for posting this and sharing. Same thing happened to me Re: a Nintendo for my kid. eBay/PayPal denied us and we didn’t look closely enough at the details to prove our case. Great job.

[@pharmerdavid1432]

David Wilson (RIP) at Tonequest Report bought a made in China "Klon" clone for cheap, and it sounded as good OR BETTER, he called it a .Klong.

[@ThePandaProcrastinates]

Hopefully both PayPal and Reverb can do something about this. Thank you for making the video and putting it out there.

[@shortyz411]

Keep calm and buy a Tumnus

[@MatthaeusEbonah]

Fun fact. As of March 31st 2023 this EXACT pedal is on sale at reverb for $7,250.

[@sgraider2425]

This just happened to me on a microcosm! The only difference is that the seller messaged me saying their account was "hacked". Just like you the shipment tracker didn't make sense and the evidence clearly flags as a scam. I'm still going through the dispute process with PayPal so fingers crossed.

[@rareform6747]

I was a Super Seller eBay 20 years . Then new guy treats Sellers like crap and "PayPal becomes a very Bad Player" . Dropped Them Both Never Looking Back !

[@albertplaysguitar]

You need to collaborate with one of those scamming the scammers KZbin channels!

[@earle4370]

I got stung by this person on June 11. The ad said they were in the USA and when I went to make the purchase, PayPal told me it was shipping from outside the states at which point you can’t back out. Most of my story is the same as yours except I couldn’t speak to anyone at PayPal. So I hounded them through messages. I had to wait for the “seller” to respond. If this is running rampant as it seems, they need to actually investigate the claim. I did the legwork and called ups. The tracking number is from Amazon. I did get my money back when the dust settled.

[@Rocksite1]

It's amazing the scammers could dummy up tracking info. What shipping service is it? Always ask questions beforehand if it seems too good to be true. If they would have dummied up a more plausible timetable, it seems that you might have been SOL.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Yeah, for sure. That’s the strangest part about the whole thing

[@DavidRavenMoon]

PayPal is useless at times. I made a custom bass preamp for a guy. He received it and then did a charge back on the credit card he used. PayPal didn’t do squat to help.

[@crashoveride1043]

I seen this very listing posted on reverb. I had seen anther one prior to this as well same kind of deal was posted way below market value. At least you got some content and your money back I suppose. It has been interesting to see these scams evolve over the years. It is easy to imagine a future where this becomes more than just an inconvenience. These scams are becoming more and more elaborate.

[@KenLince]

I ran into the same thing with PayPal when I used them to purchase a light fixture online from a company that I found out later was based in China. Basically the same thing happened and I never got money back from PayPal so I don't use them anymore for purchases like this - only AMEX.

[@jamiemorgan4146]

Amex will get your money back period ! They don’t screw around.

[@JagStar]

It’s such a sad state of affairs. It makes me sad and angry to say that I know others who have also had to go through this. Some weren’t fortunate enough to get their money back. Glad you did!

[@trebleboost7]

Even when resolved you can’t get the time and lost sleep back.

[@KyleDean66]

Great video. Thanks for posting - especially your correspondence with PayPal.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Thanks!

[@jaricklosey4607]

Glad you got the refund! I’ve been scammed and lost and it sucks.

[@bluesb52]

i got scamed by a guy in new york.i was selling a moog.and i had posted buyer pays shiping.ending up my investagation .supposedly he owned the shipping busness.and told paypal that i agreed to pay shipping.and they took out of my account $698.OO .Whitch was the price i had on the item. and befor i had even talked to paypal it was a nightmire for me .and took 3 weeks to straighten out . i closed out my paypal account out and never used again.and will never use them again.

[@DrSimonBignell]

Great video. Well handled.

[@user-dl1wx1nr7p]

There should be a class action lawsuit against Paypal for dening your claim without even reviewing it. Think about how many legit claims they automatically deny and the number of people they screw over doing that.

[@br3bid10]

I was actually on the other end of something like this a while ago. Someone hacked my reverb account and put up a bunch of fake Klon listings on it. It was such a headache getting it sorted that between Reverb and myself we agreed it would be easier to delete my account and make a new one. Ironically I actually do have a fake Klon I got from wish that I could’ve listed but not for the amount these scammers were charging>_

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Oh dang! Haven’t heard of that but it makes sense.

[@ernieb3626]

man I thought you were screwed! great video and glad you got your money back. God Bless

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Thanks!

[@latrace1986]

This is why I have a position in PYPL. I have had numerous issues in the past with bad e-commerce experiences and Paypal has always taken care of me.

[@GuitarJawn]

I had a bad experience once on Reverb, They were awesome and paid for shipping back to me because they knew the guy was full of crap.

[@mpr2366]

Thanks for posting this. Nice to see that both Reverb and Paypal got involved and helped you resolve this.

[@ScottGailor]

I saw this listing when it hit. I almost pulled the trigger. But by the time I decided it was gone. Sorry to hear it was a scam

[@marshallderrick793]

I had the exact same thing happen to me with some PA gear I bought off eBay…I had to get an independent investigation from the postal service to prove it was delivered to my house….ultimately PayPal refunded me the money! I always use PayPal for everything!

[@greg6L6GC]

I would never pay that for a pedal anyway.

[@rocketdoggo]

Scammers must know that all these fraudulent sales will get disputed and reversed. So I'm guessing the payment providers are the ones who get left holding the bag? The funds are probably withdrawn long before your claim is done processing.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Yeah, I don’t know how it works on the back end for the scammers or the companies.

[@floridaman7079]

It really depends on each companies policy (paypale, Venmo etc) for the cards side, usually it will be (in this case) between the scheme provider vs the merchant (i.e.) reverb vs Mastercard/visa/amex etc

[@neverenoughguitars8276]

The actual klon is a scam in the first place. So I guess you could say you got double scammed.

[@rosewoodsteel6656]

The pedal was priced ridiculously low and the seller was halfway around the world, in Australia? I believe these are some pretty big red flags. I'm glad you got your money back, but I personally wouldn't have touched that with a 10 foot pole. -It sounds like a lesson learned. :)

[@tohereknowsben3019]

anyone stupid enough to think it's worth buying one of these at any price deserves to be scammed + on top of this you thought you were taking advantage of someone who 'didn't really know the value of this pedal'

[@DirtyDirkDiggler]

The vast majority of people buy Klon’s because they are exclusive. It’s as simple as that. Some people fall for the hype more than others. 🤷‍♂️

[@TheToneLounge]

There is someone near me selling one for 4k. I would never buy a pedal at such a price, but at least you can go test it out. My fear with buying from on line sellers is exactly the scenario you went through: scammers! It's a gamble every time you buy something. Totally not worth it for me.

[@trebleboost7]

And to think not long ago he going price was $3K. I’m happy with my Tumnus Deluxe and Foxpedal Kingdom LOL.

[@TheToneLounge]

@@trebleboost7 I have a Tumnus mini, Archer and a Nux Horseman. They are all very good. No need for the real deal, as far as my needs go.

[@musicspeaks1074]

Well Done Mate, Sorry it takes your time away. Thank you for the video 🙏🏻

[@williambock1821]

So did the scammer get paid? I bet he DID get a payout from Reverb since he was able to show it was delivered. Clever.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

It would be in PayPal’s hands but I would assume so

[@derrickcowan80]

Did you ever actually get your money back?? I have a terrible story from dealing with PayPal where they basically denied a return request until I badgered them relentlessly. I essentially deducted that they were pretty much prepared to keep my money and blame it on my bank. After I got a written statement from the bank it was only then that they actually “looked into it”. After I showed them proof they hung up on me and minuets later the money appeared in my account.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Money was back same day for me.

[@Smart-Alex]

It probably would have made sense to message first before buying just to avoid all the hassle? Nonetheless, I'm sorry you went through this.

[@3XATHAT]

Well Done !!! Sadly there are Scammers out there and youre post is a Really Helpful Demonstration of How to Best Deal with a Rip Off if you have the Back Up in Place ...Cheers AAA

[@VPROXE-HELLRAISER]

Thnx for the headsup :)

[@mooseymoose]

Blues lawyers have made the market quite silly in places.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Yeah, it’s insane. I had a Silver one I got in a trade a few years back. Sold it for $1350 I believe… I can’t believe how much they have jumped up

[@mooseymoose]

@@MichaelWWestbrook It’s a good thing I have really no fetish for any particular piece/brand/vintage of gear, besides what I own. Especially overdrives; simple circuits, few components and ultra high profit margins. Not to mention I sold off 30 or so pedals recently because I have an IPad that does all that and more. It’s a good time to be a guitarist.

[@eduardoprieto5267]

You out there , need to know that the original builder is still making the exact pedal for $300. So better spend your hard earned money on a go-cart and give your puppy n kitty rides around the block. God bless all.

[@RedLion88]

This happened to me last year with a Deluxe Tonemaster amp on Facebook Marketplace. Price was really good, but not unbelievable. The guy spoke like he knew amps. I had the protection so I decided to gamble. Right away the guy started talking about issues with his Venmo account and that the money would be refunded, BUT his account was currently frozen so I should open a dispute. Meanwhile, he shipped something to my zip code that didn't weigh close to what the amp did. Fortunately I screenshotted all of these inconsistencies and communications and Venmo ruled in my favor. I think the main red flag on these is that they ask you to pay using a service other than where the item is listed. They want you to dispute and they hope their fake shipment gives them the W, which almost worked in your case.

[@trebleboost7]

Yeah - did you know you can buy a car using multiple gift credit cards?

[@micktheman6]

I played one at emerald city guitars the other day they wanted 5500 which is crazy. I have a king of tone and it’s my favorite overdrive so I think I’ll be good. But yeah definitely watch out for klon scams if it sounds to good to be true it probably is.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

I had a silver Klon for a short time several years ago before prices shot up. They are cool but honestly, a great klone does the trick for me… not to mention takes up way less space

[@micktheman6]

@@MichaelWWestbrook the centura and the tumnus sound the best to me but the ktr really is the closest but in my opinion low quality easy to break. Glad you got your money back

[@BryanDenham]

its not a very hard circuit to make even for a new pedal builder. the schematic is all over the web, just make sure the values of the components you use are with in 1% you can build one your self for a few dollars worth of components .the enclosure is the most expensive part, the diodes are the tuff thing to find but if you look hard enough you can even buy them , lots of videos on youtube breaking down how to get them. build the circuit on a bread board first to test it before you solder anything to a pcb.

[@aarondurham75]

Don’t worry about PayPal loosing money. I’ve helped them out with all of my pedal purchases. 😆

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

😂 Same… not worried

[@wolfgangdevries127]

"It's worth what the fool offers for it." Dutch saying.

[@NoOne-sn2si]

The epitome of idiocy... No, not because the buyer was scammed but to anyone that will fork over this kind of money for a pedal. No pedal is this good, especially when anyone can build one for less than $100...

[@thefonz147]

I wonder if the scammers are ever held to account or whether monies are recovered from their accounts.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Yeah, I’ve wondered the same thing

[@davidhamilton7780]

If the deal sounds too good to be true, it normally is. Scammers play to those instincts and try to entice us to "jump"

[@trebleboost7]

Yeah - how about the ‘Steinway’ inherited from mother for ‘pennies’ but is in transit but the ‘moving company ‘ can reroute and handle the transaction...

[@tomduckworth8335]

That’s why no one should be buying overhyped “mythical “ pedals in the first place! There a many very good pedals based on the Klon . There is nothing magical about them they are a collection of parts.

[@Gek_Sogen]

This pedal doesn't cost $500! There is nothing magical and magical about it! Modern copies are better in sound and good in price! If you have a lot of extra money, then a thousand dollars more or less - there is no difference!

[@trebleboost7]

At this point it is an investment scheme to me. Much like a lot of things.

[@grahamherbert3612]

Anybody who gets into these sort of nonsense transactions on reverb, arguably deserves a little sting. If the genuine pedal has a known, current value of $7000, then $1100, Is quite patently a scam. In 2022, people don't 'just not know the value' of specialist items they're selling. Although scammers know just the right 'baiting' price.

[@patmepin15]

Glad that lady from Paypal could understand the situation. I can't believe the first Paypal employee couldn't determine it was a scam.

[@Jay_See_Ess]

Paypal always do this, it's their policy to close cases in favour of the seller if there is tracking.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

@@Jay_See_Ess yeah, your right. My guess is it’s an automated response at this point and nobody really looks at the case.

[@Jay_See_Ess]

@@MichaelWWestbrook I'm fairly sure that is the case.

[@johnnypk1963]

If the price is too low to believe…it’s a scam ppl. Remember u aren’t that lucky.

[@Drtydeeds]

Honestly, if you get scammed it's your own fault lol.

[@Amish_Trivedi]

Whew- well done. I think mostly these people think you'll give up on it. Do you think the scammer got their money?

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Thanks! I’m not really sure… it seems like PayPal or Reverb would have protections in place. I know Reverb holds the funds for a time period but not sure about PayPal.

[@Emperorjones]

Sheesh, while I feel your pain… why would any sane person pay that much for a Klon with so many better alternatives to choose from. Brian Wampler’s Tumnus to name one.

[@flukyreview9128]

Again and again and again, when are people going to learn “when it’s too good to be true then it is”!

[@allrain]

What if they managed to submit a plausible tracking number? Like shipped on the 24th? Nerve-wrecking process for sure, luckily it turned out all right.

[@J_Fowler]

I wonder what pay pal would have said had the tracking information looked more legit?

[@oscillatemusic1]

I bought a Roland Juno 6 for $1400 off reverb and received a broken m-audio midi controller and some rocks. Took photos of everything and reverb gave me my money back and was very helpful as well!

[@trebleboost7]

Wow!

[@BadHorsie2]

I would go ahead and contact your local post office it is mail fraud also due to the fraudulent tracking number.

[@tonyhill8300]

Scammers target the greedy with this sort of scam ,and you fell for it ...

[@kierenmoore3236]

People who carelessly do what you did, are the reason the fees are so high … Did you think of that?! Probably not …

[@benpetro37]

Shouldn’t you have done all your investigation BEFORE you paid?

[@OhBHayes]

So... what did we learn here?

[@AstralToneworx]

Should have just bought a Mosky clone for $20

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

It would sound better then what I got…

[@ultramindcontrolrealzz8367]

If its to good to be true its a scam wake up

[@sureshwong]

I think this is a paid PayPal ad.

[@MichaelWWestbrook]

Nah, I wish.

[@JonSmith-fc2mm]

Rule #1 - Paypal with a major credit card. The CC will not put up with PayPal BS as they risk losing access. Amex had to go to bat with me from a scam artist in Israel. Paypal was going with the scammers BS in spite of evidence I was scammed.

[@joeh23]

It it sounds too good to be true......................

[@jm6651]

If it’s to good to be true…

[@tzzogg]

*WHO IS THE WORLD WOULD ORDER ANYTHING FOR $1100, WITHOUTH DEMANDING SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION? YOU SEEM TO BE ALMOST AS MUCH AT FAULT AS THE SCAM-SELLER.*

[@guitarandmore69]

Stupid is as stupid does?

[@txtele]

Man there's a sucker born every I don't want to be mean or anyting this is the first video I've ever watched on your but you know how the old saying goes if it sounds too good to be true you're getting screwed

[@bobdeluxeandtheideals1356]

Cool

[@StuartPeel]

Hi Michael. An interesting story, and I know that it turned out to be a scam, but there seems to be some ethics missing here. Assume that the seller was legit and had the pedal. He/she didn't have any idea of its worth. Are you not therefore, trying to scam an honest 'seller' out of a $5000 profit by grabbing a bargain and not saying to them "Hey, do you know what these things are worth?" Some people are probably OK with doing business like this, but I just couldn't work that way.

[@dericdomino]

at least you werent dumn eneough to pay full price you can buy a clone for 50 dollars

[@AuntAlnico4]

Wait, you paid before you connected with the seller ??😢 you never do that on reverb 😂man reverb customer service is so bad you don't want to take any risk at all, especially $1100 for a fake pedal scam. You should have known, fool.

[@freddycookjr.2164]

doh

[@igorhenrique835]

3rd world problem…

[@kianhendrick3794]

You should be really stupid to put 1100 $ on a Klon Pedal !!? Victim from the Hype ...ridiculous

[@neenerheaddj]

Ugh. C’mon, man. Not watching this dead horse clickbait. Obvious Reverb scam Klons are obvious. Don’t buy them to make dumb clickbait videos. You can do so much better.