A guide to the samatha Jhanas (part 2: The formless Jhanas)

[@christophermason7735]

Thank you very much for this video. After reading books from Ajahn Jahan and Ajahn Chah I attained all of the states in part one of the previous video mostly by self discovery. Actually once a week I meditate with the Thai Monks and Pra Ajahn Ord in our local Thai Temple and when I recently reached stage 3 I cried tears of happiness in the temple after I coming out of meditation. I often see the Nimitta in different forms. But the formless Jhanas have eluded me as I’ve never found such a comprehensive instruction such as this. I look forward to trying these techniques and hopefully experience this. Thanks again.

[@pimvermeulen2115]

Thank you for your compliment and the best of luck with your practice🙏

[@christophermason7735]

Pim Vermeulen This is very cool. I tried your technique tonight for the formless Jhana. For examining the colours no matter how hard I tried to see something like green paper I could see a leaf in the image, trying to see a red car a cherry was there. And so on with other associated items. Like the mind sees colours by association. And it feels like I can fix stuff that’s gone wrong like anxiety and stuff. I wasn’t scared but my breath was so shallow at times it had practically stopped and a couple of times I completely zoned out into bright white light emerging from complete stillness. However, I’ve read books saying you get locked into Jhanas and loose the will to come out. I never felt like I lost my will. Maybe I did when I zoned out as that was like just nothingness. I can’t describe it because it was like being there but. I’m lost for words. 90 minutes went very quickly.

[@pimvermeulen2115]

That sounds wonderful!

[@oMxgiic]

Hi Pim, Thanks for your videos, much appreciated. I like the way you describe these states and how to get into them btw, for me this has been very helpful. After going through the Jhanas in your guided meditation a few weeks ago (prior to that I did not even know what hana was), I have at times been incorporating them in my daily (silent) meditations, thereby training this aspect of meditation and abide in some Jhanas. Today, to let the 'realm of neither-perception-nor-non-perception' happen, the cat&mouse game was going on whilst looking for the observer. After that whilst abiding in the Jhana, a blissful realization happened which was followed by vibrant laughing in open awareness. It somehow became clear experientally, that there is no real observer in a sense, that there is just awareness.

[@aquababy2012]

You can practice the arrupas w/o jhanas but I fail to see the point. I view jhanas as a much easier way of accomplishing neither-perception-nor-non-perception in conjunction with another technique that compliments the fourth jhana.

[@valerieevanier9632]

Ok - this I don't understand. The first 4 jhanas came about for me just by themselves during meditation....do the second 4 come the same way? If you need to use some mind techniques like you mention, how do you do them at the same time you are concentrating on your object without breaking concentration?

[@pimvermeulen2115]

Hi Valerie, the formless Jhanas have much less to do with focusing on an object than the form Jhanas. They are more about easing into spaciousness, while keeping the mind clear from distractions. So instead of focusing on a single spot, you let focus merge with entire awareness. What I often see happening is that people who abide in open awareness during meditation fall into the formless Jhanas naturally (The 1st at least).

[@valerieevanier9632]

@@pimvermeulen2115 Thank you Pim. Seems like this is going to be trickier than the form jhanas. Not that I'm complaining - I could stay with the first 4 forever they are so peaceful. It just seems like to make progress I ought to be moving forward into more insight states. Thank you for the advice - I will for sure give the technique a try.

[@yaddyfruit]

This is so interesting to me. I had a very odd experience whilst on a low dose of magic mushrooms before - I decided to empty my mind and meditate open-eyed. My mind instantly became completely still and silent, absolutely no thoughts whatsoever, not even in the background and it's as if I skipped many stages of the usual meditation. I was overcome with pure loving bliss and contentment. It's like I could feel love in absolutely everything. Not long after that I entered a state that sounds similar to the 4th formless jnana - My conscious experience shifted into being the watcher. I was almost observing/watching myself as if separate from myself, with the consciousness feeling as if it was within the body still but slightly above it. It was the most surreal and most difficult thing to describe. It's as if the body, mind and ego continued to think, perceive and talk but it was separate from the state of consciousness I was in, I was simply observing it as if I was just watching somebody else. That experience really enabled me to understand who I really am - the pure consciousness of reality - and what the human ego is. I also struggled with self-love for years prior to that experience and I was finally able to view myself from an outside perspective and see what my ego was truly like, and I had nothing but unconditional love for it for the first time in my life. For weeks and even months after I was in a blissful mindful state where the sensation of body was minimised, as if I could feel my consciousness permeating the energy all around through the air, and I felt nothing but pure love for every being I came across, especially my friends and family. I'd love to understand what happened in those moments, whether I skipped through jnanas or I momentarily achieved samadhi. It's something that changed my life and understanding of consciousness and reality for the better. If anybody has any insight, that would be greatly appreciated. Namaste to you all

[@pimvermeulen2115]

Hi! Thanks for sharing such a personal experience. How wonderful to hear you've had such a positive life-altering experience:) although the experience itself seems strange I've heard similar stories from many people I have spoken to. It's human potentiality:) Some people experience it out of the blue, some people after many many hours of meditating or doing other forms of spiritual practice. I'm curious, was there a period prior that event which you would describe as "dark"? Anyway, what you went through you could call a permanent shift in perception, or an awakening (be aware of this one, ego loves this). Whatever label you like. There are many different forms of these, all bringing you a remembering of seemingly ancient wisdom that has been obscured by the ego all along. All of them are paired with periods of light and darkness. Coming to terms with this new mode of perception. And all of Them are eventually freeing. Not in the sense that you become something better, Just in the sense that you now finally see you believed something which wasn't true. And how that belief has held your potential down. I'm glad you're doing well! Just consciously embrace life with all it's wonders and challenges and it will slowly free your potential:)

[@yaddyfruit]

@@pimvermeulen2115 Hi Pim, no worries at all! I love sharing experiences no matter how strange or odd they may seem to your average person - I feel the more we share then the more we understand and open ourselves to the possiblities. With regards to your question, it depends on what you determine as "dark" - if by "dark" you mean lack of light, there was no darkness as everything appeared as normal (well rather normal as colours were more vibrant and everything looked more high definition due to the mushrooms). However if you mean "dark" as in a low frequency/vibration of conciousness or emotions and mentality, I was going through a rough period of life although it certainly had wonderful blessings as I was discovering myself and spirituality further. But years prior to that I was diagnosed with depression and would have very low states of mind and self-worth, I found meditation and other spiritual practice to be the only thing that helped. I often think of that experience I had as a freak coincidence as I was developing my understanding of reality prior to that as well with meditation, clairsentience etc. My knowledge of reality and consciousness was somewhat adept, but I'd never actually experienced something so profound, it was almost as if living the wisdom I had learnt and believed so wholeheartedly in. I'm more inclined to go with a shift in perception, unfortunately after that experience I did develop a 'spiritual ego' where I believed I was fully awakened and found myself tumbling back down into negative and lower frequencies once again. Then all of spirituality including meditation, seemed to be clouded by what I like to term 'the dark night of the soul' where things turned very much back to normal egoic life and I felt blocked from the energy and consciousness I'd previously discovered. I had previously had a similar shift in perception years earlier in the time my depression was diagnosed, which was around the time I got into Buddhism , where I realised I was pure consciousness not the body itself, I also realised in the same moments that my cat was exactly the same as me, just consciousness. The experience on shrooms however allowed me to further see that I am also not the mind itself. Neither mind nor body, simply awareness

[@pimvermeulen2115]

Ahh yes, thank you again for sharing! All perception shifts are met by great resistance of the ego. It is as if you are worse off in the first weeks/months after the honeymoon period. But you seem to be doing really well at the moment and I am glad you do. Wish you all the best:)

[@Oi-mj6dv]

Thank you for clarifying about the order of access about the jhanas. First time i had an experience with jahana meditation that felt as if i had entered some other state of consciousness, i was straight up yeeted into only feeling as a floating identity. It was quite strange, at a certain point my body just popped off, and i had no sense of sensory perception about the body nor its orientation or location. All of a sudden space was meaningless as It was this all encompasing "void thing" and that was about It. No piti, no nothing. I just popped off. Thoughts were quiet, still some feeling was present but extremely quiet. All was silent and thats It. It felt quite weird. I am yet to enter that state again through practice but have not succeeded so far. Thank you for the depiction of these jhanas, It is quite illustrative

[@alvarogonzalez8629]

Hello! Ihave a question.....when you mention "The mind illuminated"....are you referring to the Culadasa's Book?

[@pimvermeulen2115]

yes

[@christophermason7735]

I’ve heard and read monks talk about getting locked into Jhana when they loose the will to come out by their own choice for many hours. I’ve certainly zoned out and lost the sensation of breath with a nimita not never experienced extended periods locked in to Jhana. What do you think they are talking about and is it another group of deeper states of being. I often wonder if this could happen and if I should warn my family it could happen.

[@pimvermeulen2115]

Perhaps what you mean is Nirodha Samapatti, which is a prolonged state of unconsciousness. In the Jhanas there still is an observer and perceived control to a certain degree so I wouldn't worry about it. And if you do, investigate the worry:) what is it, where does it come from?

[@christophermason7735]

Pim Vermeulen Thank you for the advice

[@peaceloveandstrength543]

Would you recommend trying to experience these jhanas in a vipassana retreat or a concentration retreat?

[@pimvermeulen2115]

For the formless Jhanas, either concentration (samatha) retreats or retreats that focus on open awareness practices (mahamudra for example) but I wouldn't recommend Mahasi noting or Goenka (both vipassana) retreats to practice these states.

[@eddiechin5565]

Sadhu! Sadhu ! Sadhu!

[@Nitrlul]

Do you think you can enter formless Jhana's without doing 4 others first?

[@pimvermeulen2115]

That's certainly possible! Especially when doing open awareness practices

[@royyouness]

Heyy Pim! Very helpful video! Do you think that the formless jhanas are the same altered states as the transcendence state that the transcendental meditation (based on maharishi mahech yogi's teachings) talk about?

[@pimvermeulen2115]

Hi Roy, I couldn't be sure. TM does focus as far as I know specifically on single-pointedness though so my guess would be no. Take it with a grain of salt;)

[@valerieevanier9632]

Do you think experiencing the formless jhanas help with vipassana practice?

[@pimvermeulen2115]

Absolutely! There is a lot the formless realms can learn us about the way reality is constructed

[@u_Vajiradhammo]

dear brother in sasana...could you help me with one personal question?...i need some advise from you as yogi

[@pimvermeulen2115]

Hello my friend, sure! You can chat me up via Instagram if you like.

[@ruzickaw]

Closing the door to the previous jhana? How stupid. They are all contained in one.