A Highly Improbable G4 TAM

[@Photo0021]

Apple should really bring back the dudes that delivered the Mac Anniversary in a limo once they bring out the Apple Silicon Mac Pro. It’s gonna cost your soul so might as well make it worth it.

[@Sevenfeet0]

It was a young Jonny Ive actually.

[@minty_Joe]

@Zaydan Naufal I don't think money is a problem for Apple; they can afford 100K to pull that off... unless you mean it'll cost the new owner $100K.

[@eejjkk]

A Descendents shirt two TAM episodes ago, now a NOFX shirt? This is my kind of channel.

[@PotatoFi]

Dude. Your camerawork on the TAM's LCD is ON POINT. For awhile, I forgot that I was looking at an LCD panel and thought it was a direct capture.

[@SullySadface]

Pair that with the subwoofer and you can totally forget that it's actually camera capture

[@Ralph-yn3gr]

Just when I thought the insanity had reached its peak. This is one of the coolest Macintoshes I've ever seen. Too bad the CD drive has given up.

[@jordananderson8299]

In the first video on the TAM I commented asking him to look in the Powerbook's CDROM drive and see if the parts are the same. Looks like he did not notice my comment

[@fsfs555]

Plenty of PPC chips were mostly pin compatible: BGA 603, 604, 740; 750, 7400, 7410; 750fx, 750gx. They may need voltage adjustments, or a few pins may need to be pulled up or down to get new chips to work in older boards, but otherwise they fit on the same grid. The 750 is basically a reworked 603e with more L1 cache and built-in backside L2 cache control (the 740 was the same but without the L2 cache, hence its 603/604 grid compatibility). The 7400 is a 604e with the same treatment (more caches and onboard L2 cache control) but its big improvement was AltiVec. However, unless you're running Mac OS 9 (or X, which the TAM never will) and apps that are AltiVec optimized, there's not a ton of benefit to going with a G4 over a G3: the G4 is hotter and more power-hungry than the G3 while performing only marginally faster at the same MHz. You also usually have to reinstall OS 9 after putting in a G4 upgrade, or the AltiVec libraries aren't available to the OS or many apps.

[@bundesautobahn7]

The worst part about BGA chips: Before you can solder them on, you have to reball them I believe. Reballing BGAs is the devil.

[@AGAMERTEAM]

You're right, you do definitely have to recall the chip

[@StevenIngram]

I say go for the triple boot option just because you can. Besides, down the Linux path at least, you may even find a GUI environment with lower processor and memory overhead and get even more performance out of it.

[@kbhasi]

Yep! I'm reminded of an old X window manager that was made to look like classic Mac OS, and I remember someone else did something similar that attempted to replicate Apple's 'Platinum' visual style.

[@HaveYouTriedGuillotines]

@@kbhasi I tried that newer one replicating Platinum... I still think Platinum is a great UI, even to this day. Unfortunately, it was broken in some ways, and I don't think it's going to be updated. It uses XFCE, which is a good choice since it functions like the Platinum interface to begin with, but XFCE made some changes that broke the Platinum scrollbar graphics and some other stuff, sadly.

[@JeremyLevi]

Don't you need to install the Sonnet G4 Enabler 9 in the system folder to activate the AltiVec instructions? I'd also try rebuilding the desktop file if you're not seeing the performance increase you would expect. Maybe try using included "Metronome" utility to see if it's reporting the same wonky clock speed as the system profiler. It should also show things like bus speed, etc to help you figure out if your overclock is working as intended.

[@D0Samp]

Even with the correct enabler, MacBench 5.0 does not seem to use AltiVec anyway. It's pretty in line with historic benchmarks that integer performance is nearly identical between G3 and G4 of the same frequency while only (scalar) FPU performance is improved.

[@joshuasundheimer4218]

I had no clue that they sent an expansion cover for the back of it. Thats literally just so cool because I didn't even know you could do that!

[@userperson5259]

Pushing the boundaries of personal computing.... twenty years after the fact. Love it!!

[@RudysRetroIntel]

Excellent upgrades!! Would love to see the double boot or even triple boot!! Thanks for sharing

[@jbackes]

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, I have a TAM sitting in the garage with a G3 upgrade new in box and a 4 port USB card. Maybe when I have time I'll see if it still starts.

[@thedopplereffect00]

I think you should do a segment where you 3D print a custom back with built in fan mounts and air flow solution.

[@stgigamovement]

If you use OS9Helper, XPostFacto, and LeopardAssist you can get Leopard or the PPC beta of Snow Leopard running on this. Imagine running the OSes of the original metal iMacs on a machine that inspired them. Especially with the space background one always saw in those ads. If you use InterWebPPC, you can actually browse the modern web on that TAM in that OS.

[@sixteenbitify]

I would even be impressed if he could run ANY version of OS X on the TAM. I tried some googling and cannot find any TAM owner running any version of OS X on their TAM.

[@stgigamovement]

@@sixteenbitify people have ran leopard on Power Mac 8500s.

[@sixteenbitify]

@@stgigamovement Yeah, that is certainly possible. I have a 9600 that runs 10.5 Leopard with a G4 card. But the TAM is a weaker machine compared to the 8500/8600/9500/9600 and still haven’t seen anyone running OS X on the TAM yet.

[@stgigamovement]

@@sixteenbitify it's definitely possible, it would just be slow. But seeing the galaxy background from leopard and snow leopard seen in ads of aluminum macs would be funny on the TAM. Like the ancestor of said macs

[@CodeProfessor]

Triple booting you say... Potentially terrible idea you say... You should totally do it! Thanks for all of the fantastic shenanigans.

[@SockyNoob]

Having the fans pointed outward as exhaust fans was definitely the best idea.

[@bobfoster7771]

Love the NOFX shirt! Also love the descendants shirt in the last video! Punk and Old Macs! Awesome combo!

[@richardwoodurff9186]

Thanks for the saturday morning shows, this one was awesome, as always!

[@scott8919]

This design held up so well, IMO. If they reintroduced this today with modern guts it wouldn't look too out of place.

[@FoxSock]

l o l

[@mauriciotonnera9463]

Congrats on this great video!! I do have an old 6500 Mac with the Credcendo G3 upgrade sitting for years without booting. I will give it a try now!!

[@PixelPi]

It's a terrible idea, but I'd really love to see it! ;-) Actually what I'd like to see is FreeBSD 13.1, in this release they finally removed GCC and fully replaced it with Clang/LLVM, if you do an optimized recompile expressly for the G4 ISA you should see a significant performance boost.

[@linuxization4205]

Yeah, BSDs are lighter on ram than Linuxes. I would also love to see any type of Unix running on this machine!

[@linuxization4205]

Maybe even upgrade the amount of ram???

[@SenileOtaku]

@@linuxization4205 ANY type of Unix?? It's a PowerPC processor from when IBM and Apple were collaborating. Maybe try running AIX?

[@linuxization4205]

​@@SenileOtaku Never saw AIX run on a PowerPC mac, but go for it!

[@alexandermcalpine]

Thumbs up for bringing back the tam, AND nofx!

[@hippyraverocker]

Could you do an upgrade of an original G3 iMac? Would be very curious to see what the upper limit for upgrades on one would be.

[@IanC14]

Iirc, there's was a G4 CPU upgrade and I think you can add FireWire too? I know someone made a Voodoo GPU upgrade for the OG iMac

[@BrainSlugs83]

I think tripple booting the Tam with BeOS is a terrible idea, AND I would like to see it. 😅

[@SkellyPacks]

I'm just now realizing the TAM stands for 20th Anniversary Mac... if you'll excuse me I have to go sit in shame for a few moments.

[@reidster87]

I've spent a lot of hours using my Performa 6360 which has a very similar logic board, but with a 160MHz 603ev on a 40MHz bus. I suspect the slow screen drawing when you booted with extensions off was because accelerated graphics extensions weren't loaded, not because the stock 250MHz 603ev was too slow to draw the desktop/Finder in OS 9.1.

[@thechillhacker]

About the slower speeds at ~11:30, I ran into this on my G4 PowerTower Pro as well (also with the g3 upgrades). The system bus and memory speeds are what are killing you. To put in as a car analogy, you can put an LS block in a fiat, but you are still going to deal with an undersized transmission, poor gear ratios, small wheels, limited suspension and brakes, etc - and it will never perform like a Corvette. It will however, be a beast of a FIAT.

[@cjsebes]

Absolutely do the triple boot. And bonus points for the NOFX shirt. I got to see them in concert about 25 years ago here in NJ at a really small venue and it was a really great show.

[@JohnSmith-xq1pz]

Apple secret police open up!! Oh its just a TAM never mind

[@ifrit05]

11:26 The 50 MHz bus on the TAM is probably hindering the performance of that G4.

[@Michael-Archonaeus]

That would not surprise me at all. After all it's two generations older than the G4, Apple weren't planning to upgrade this thing lol

[@amp888]

9:10 I don't know if you fixed it, but it appears you have the fan mounted the wrong way around. As it's fitted there, it'll exhaust air out from the case to the outside. You can check on the fan shroud, but for 99.99% of fans (and all Noctuas, AFAIK), the intake side is the one with no obstruction and the exhaust side is the one with the fan hub label on it.

[@SimonQuigley]

There's also usually a couple of little arrows molded into the plastic surround which show you the blade rotation and airflow directions

[@amp888]

@@SimonQuigley Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant by checking on the fan shroud, but I should've expanded on that. Thanks.

[@XeonProductions]

With as smooth as some of these crazy updates seem to be going through on this machine, maybe it's a blessed macintosh instead of a cursed one.

[@JustinRied]

Welcome to the G4 TAM Party, Sean! Big fan, long time viewer! 😎

[@ActionRetro]

Woohoo!

[@zoopercoolguy]

I saw your thread on the 68kMLA. Pretty impressive work on your TAM.

[@JustinRied]

@@zoopercoolguy Thanks! It's been a fun project. Although I am extremely disappointed with myself for not initially welcoming Sean to the "G4 TAM Fam!"

[@2009numan]

that fan you put in was actully blowing out of the back of the case and not sucking cool air in

[@maynardcrow6447]

Crazy build. The tiny fan was facing the wrong way. Your blowing out not in.

[@vasya_cat]

pcb way also cam make flexible pcbs, you could probably make and replace the broken cd drive cable

[@zachwilliams2597]

apple system profiler displaying a highly improbable clockspeed is just your TAM saying "I AM SPEED!"

[@davidstern3031]

I think a triple booting TAM would be amazing to see! Or at least an attempt!

[@vinatron8075]

I’d like to see how a triple boot setup would work nice job!

[@gumbyx84]

You are a crazy man and I love it! Keep making these fun retro tech videos.

[@ChristopherBushman]

The TAM-Triple sounds like a grand idea

[@MDBenson]

Sonnet Crescendo software comes with "Metronome" which is their own readout software for the system extension

[@Matthew_Turner]

Sean you never cease to impress man! Love to see the triple boot!

[@vaderexmachina]

we need the TAM to boot OS X even if its only 10.0

[@stgigamovement]

XPostFacto and Leopard Assist can be used to get even the PPC beta Snow Leopard running on a G4 before 467MHz. So you can run the OS of those aluminum iMacs on their visual ancestor.

[@Gojirosan]

Loving these TAM vids, many thanks!

[@GugureSux]

This is one of the old computers used in the Serial Experiments LAIN anime series. Still looks futuristic for a 1990s' tech.

[@craigtheduck]

Kinda true; it heavily inspired the design of the Child's Navi, which is the model Lain receives at the beginning of the series.

[@annekarice1587]

This has been a great series, I subscribed off the back of it! Looking forward to future series.

[@YoshAndSwrred]

I love your videos. Just love them. -SuperYosh from Unprepared Films

[@sluxi]

Would love to see this running BeOS and Linux certainly. I used to run Ubuntu on a clamshell iBook G3 years ago.

[@anidnmeno]

Action Retro is the TRUE Mac Daddy

[@syragrippa8769]

I dunno, I really like the TAM design. It's pleasing to look at, so I dig the form factor and I wish companies still made interesting computers like this.

[@franklincerpico7702]

Your channel is a hidden gem.

[@MrGardenofeden]

It would be really nice to 3D print a cover for the side of the Mac. Now it looks very hacky. Anyway, great job!

[@mlthmp]

That fan is so janky.. and I love it!! Awesome

[@OrDuckVet]

Best episode t-shirt choice ever.

[@bryans8656]

I say go for a triple boot system. No guts no glory 😁

[@plasmastorm656]

That Noctua fan is back to front, it's blowing air out of the case, not sucking it in.

[@allalphazerobeta8643]

G4 has better internal cache and pipe-lining algorithms if you're wondering why it can beat a g3 clock for clock... Also, sonnet clocker was programmed in RealBasic because it uses the RealBasic Default Application Icon. Pretty Fun Rapid Development toolkit. Maybe, something you could do a video on. The processor speed is wrong because the Sonnet Clocker probably wants the default speed of the upgrade card and not of the processor you're installing. Since the processor doesn't set it's own clock speed.

[@robertchamberlin2362]

This was Tamrrific!!!!!! Loved It!!!!

[@jba2048]

When action retro says he’s going to make a modification to a system without any hardware shenanigans all I can think is, “what other shenanigans can someone pull?”

[@breestandard1318]

This video needs more Tim Tams.

[@minty_Joe]

@Action Retro , My guess is the PCBs you have in that box at 3:30 are to be populated with both a CPU and Coprocessor for a 68020 or 68030.

[@Hamboarding]

I think it's a great idea to triple boot 🌞👍🏻

[@andre-le-bone-aparte]

@19:40 - YES, make it tripple boot. And run WinXP as Virtual PC. That should be able to stress the processor.

[@stevencarlson5422]

cool keep pushing it farther !!!!!

[@TheJonathanc82]

This is a true frankenmac. It is both one of the most ridiculous and most awesome things I have ever seen. 🎉

[@daboogersniffa]

Love the shirt, your content is fantastic. Keep up the good work!

[@rpissmrpissm2925]

When you boot with extensions off, it turns off the graphics acceleration extension too. That's why widow redraw was so slow. It wasn't the 603e.

[@MegafOfficial]

Yep, please do the BeOS thing.✌

[@jlj945]

Linux and BeOS are cool and all but I think installing Leopard would be a better achievement.

[@SAerror1]

I wonder if you could order a new custom flex cable for the internal cdrom through one of the chinese pcb vendors, if you take photos of the broken one and get it scaled correctly it shouldn't be too hard to draw a new gerber on top

[@richfiles]

Yeah, this actually sounds like a great idea.

[@asgowraith8975]

Triple boot, triple boot! Also, maybe upload it on a Tuesday.

[@graealex]

That big umbilical cord on the TAM is really a big oof and shows how bad the overall engineering was with this machine. Even worse than the special display cable they had for the Apple Studio Display back then, where you needed an expensive adapter and PSU if you wanted to use it with a different computer.

[@Michael-Archonaeus]

They still do that kind of nonsense.

[@graealex]

@@Michael-Archonaeus Well, when they got to the Cinema Display in 2004, they realized that they can still have a single cable and just fan it off into non-proprietary connectors. Not sure what the big deal with the TAM cable is. It's literally just power for the head unit, and an audio return channel for the subwoofer, the latter which could have been a digital connection to avoid the buzzing, which many TAMs are prone to. Completely idiotic engineering. It would have been better to reduce the power supply to just two pins with 20V, and have the mainboard create the required voltages from that. It's basically laptop hardware anyway.

[@phreapersoonlijk]

Silly, and I love everything about it !

[@djjoris]

A dual boot Tam is an Tam-Tam and a tripple boot is an Tam-Tam-Tam... and so on...

[@goqwertygo]

I think you're the only techtuber that actually uses ArctiClean😄

[@willallen7757]

Cokie the Clown is one of my favorite songs.

[@jimi-w]

Some 25 years ago, when a man in a tuxedo delivered this TAM to its original owner, if you had told them about what would happen to this machine in the future they would have said "What the hell is a KZbin?"

[@kungfujesus06]

It's unfortunate that those heat sink fins are going the wrong way. Unless they are grids

[@Gamerbay2017]

I really want to see you make a triple booting TAM!

[@DavidStahlOLDHAPPyMACs]

Great G4 Upgrade Sean Herd Is tHe Man

[@greggv8]

I want to see PCBway make a new flex PCB for the CD-ROM drive.

[@AttilaSVK]

The tripleboot TAM is a terrible idea, so I'd like to see it for sure :D

[@Rorschach1024]

Pcbway could make a replacement ribbon cable for your dead drive too.

[@DavidRavenMoon]

That random Apple employee is Sir Jonathan Paul Ive! But I’m sure you knew that.

[@morecrappysketches]

I'd love to see some more detailed benchmarks as I've never heard of a L2 upgrade being swapped with a G4 CPU. Sonnet made G4s for PCI Powermacs and even made one for the x100 series of Nubus Powermacs, but there was never a retail G4 upgrade for L2. I wonder if it was a heat/power consideration. Or perhaps it wasn't worth the cost. Or 603e machines that topped out around 128MB of RAM weren't worth upgrading that far. Or maybe the L2 slot was too much of a bottleneck for the more demanding G4, or couldn't handle it well enough, similar to the faster Sonnet upgrades that would downclock the B&W G3 bus. Maybe we can now find out! I'd suggest something that can utilize Altivec as it seems MacBench doesn't, or does so insufficiently. Maybe Altivec Fractal Carbon?

[@blairlohnes8103]

I also love NOFX and old macs. :)

[@TheTotallyRealXiJinping]

Am I the only one who hears the first note of Rugrats when the TAM chimes?

[@ActionRetro]

well I can never un-hear it now 😂

[@alerey4363]

13:37 🤣 you managed to confuse the profiler by making it report "about 544Mhz"; NEVER saw *about* in that report, congrats!

[@GreenAppelPie]

They released a TAM that was that slow? I don’t blame Steve for tossing it.

[@russwilliams4678]

Triple boot it! You might be able to update the yellow dog as well!

[@opethfan333]

I think XPostFacto supports the TAM. I'd love to see it running OS X!

[@rydot]

Quad Boot!!! Oh the insanity!! \o/

[@linuxization4205]

I really think you should triple boot! If you're using Linux and BeOS, maybe you should upgrade the ram to 256mb. Either way, it'll be crazy!

[@charliekahn4205]

What exactly can you run on Linux at 256MiB of RAM? Just decent graphics on Linux takes up at minimum 128.

[@linuxization4205]

@@charliekahn4205 Web browsing?

[@charliekahn4205]

@@linuxization4205 anything but that

[@a4e69636b]

I would like to see a triple-booting TAM please.

[@michaelmullett7327]

Let’s see that Action!

[@canadianman000]

Nice shirt. I got to see NOFX live in Halifax.

[@danaeckel5523]

That is one awesome Mac. I would love to see the triple boot setup! Would it be possible to do a quad boot with Morph OS?

[@timothyp8947]

That was the first question that sprang to my mind too 😊

[@YearsOfLeadPoisoning]

I hope we get TAMember, TAMuary and TAMarch

[@richfiles]

Oh my gosh... I'd love to G4 upgrade my TAM, but I'd be terrified what that actually costs, and so worried about breaking my G3 Cache card.

[@rambles2727]

Huh i never knew you were a NOFX fan :) the man i killed is a good song