A Human Transition | Bob Jensen

If we can’t undo the damage, how do we survive it?
Bob Jensen, political theorist, is the co-author of An Inconvenient Apocalypse: Environmental Collapse, Climate Crisis, and the Fate of Humanity. He joined me to discuss the book’s message: transitioning humanely to a more equitable and a smaller society will demand creativity, resilience and community.
In this episode, we swap stories on those themes, telling tales of friends who marked us, communities who are forming in the face on political instability, the importance of storytelling as a tool with which to remind us of the best of humanity. This is a moving interview which intertwines knowledge with emotional honesty in the face of potential collapse.
During, I also introduce a new project, WE WILL BEAR WITNESS, which documents stories from around the world detailing the perils and resistance of this moment in history. Sign up to bear witness.
00:00 Intro
04:17 The old future
07:13 Imagination and technology
13:01 A humane transition
23:00 What stories do we need to tell?
28:09 Introducing We Will Bear Witness
29:42 Stories of community
36:10 Stories of creativity
42:37 Stories of opportunity
45:58 Stories of The Left
51:11 Stories of humanity
54:13 Who would you like to platform?
🔴 An Inconvenient Apocalypse: undpress.nd.edu/9780268203665...
🔴 WE WILL BEAR WITNESS: www.wewillbearwitness.org/
🌎 Support Planet: Critical: / planetcritical
🌎 Website: www.planetcritical.com/
🌎 Twitter: / planetcritical
#politicalcrisis #climatecrisis #socialcrisis

[@timeenoughforart]

As an old guy who built his house by myself except for my electrician hooking up the panel and hiring a well driller I can attest to the joy of hard work. A 800 Sq. Ft. house for under $20,000.00. No mortgage. 2008 killed my cabinet business. If I had a mortgage I'd be homeless today. The other side of the story is I know too many men working 70 hour weeks who own all the toys, they just never get to use them. Better camping in a tent than owning a $100,000.00 RV that never see's the road.

[@greggardiner895]

and @byronbaybarrels mate

[@DrSmooth2000]

What style of house

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

Shotgun

[@vtfollett]

Not only is technology not the answer to our dilemma, virtually all technology hastens us along the path to armageddon, if not from weapons or AI, then from a poisoning of the biosphere we all depend on to live.

[@Withnail1969]

None of those things are going to kill us. Depletion of resources, especially oil used to make diesel to power farm machinery and natural gas used to make fertiliser, will kill us.

[@neilmorgan7737]

Not sure you can say weapons and Ai will not kill us. There is a risk both in combination will kill us. Ai could take control and use nukes to wipe out most if not all human life, certainly as we know it today. @@Withnail1969

[@chesterfinecat7588]

Personal pocket fusion and Ultra-Flexinol Supersubstance will change that. Form it into a car, recycle and Thanksgiving dinner will appear. This is the perpetual motion reality of our future. Need sexy outfit? UFS can do it. Need an AR-15? UFS. Mars Mission? UFS.

[@theboyisnotright6312]

If and when we can perfect nuclear fusion, energy would essentially become free. We could have a hydrogen economy as the hold back on that is hydrogen fuel cells take twice as much energy to charge as you get out. I just know electric cars are not the solution, this push for EV changeover is because the wealthy and powerful want to keep control. We don't have enough minerals for EV. We as humans have faced serious problems before and we have overcome, and I hope we do again. If not we will go the way of the dinosaurs. Be hopeful but plan for the worst. Horsepower won't save us from our own stupidity. In the near future I think we will have a huge pandemic on the level of Black Death.

[@dianewallace6064]

52:00 I like the idea of waking up with grief and joy. I guess that is what I do without realizing it. I work hard at my gardening and feeding the yard birds.

[@EmmaSolomano]

This conversation just whizzed by, I couldnt believe it was an hour long. Great stuff. Very accessible commentary.

[@mrrecluse7002]

This was a real as it gets....just the plain truth, with no BS, or sugarcoating. Thank you, Rachel, and Bob.

[@KaizenTrainingLtd]

Another wonderful conversation - thank you so much Rachel and Bob. Completely on-point.

[@jamesbrad7182]

Thank you for this incredibly interesting talk. I have struggled for 15 years with grief and joy at the state of things. Love, from Cape Town❤.❤❤❤

[@vtfollett]

Shoveling snow! Now there's a zen activity. I Iive in Vermont, so there's plenty of the white stuff to move. At 78 I've never owned a snow-blower, and hope I never have to. Granted, I have a short driveway, but I love the rhythmic pace, the quiet, and the brisk air. I have FIVE different shovels and tools to keep my drive and walks clear. And I exercise my body and clear my mind at the same time.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

five different snow shovels! As a Minnesotan I'm envious. haha. I have three but they're not that good. Basically I use one. I tried an electric cordless "snow shovel" - I help out the neighbors - it did come in handy. I got out of shape over the pandemic so I'm not an Olympian snow shoveler like I used to be. I used to shovel a quarter mile road now problem. hahaha. thanks

[@chesterfinecat7588]

396 cc's of fossil fueled rage at my fingertips with headlight and heated handgrips. Talk about clearing the mind. 700' of drifted snow at 6,700 ft will do it.

[@thelastaustralian7583]

Since the end of WW2 Australia has been destroyed both socially and ecologically . Beyond repair ! Which is interesting due to the Species claiming how Intelligent and Educated it is !

[@michaellandrum1523]

"If the world is saved, it will not be saved by old minds with new programs but by new minds with no programs at all." Daniel Quinn

[@noahbrown4388]

The world doesn’t need saving. It’s our ass that is on the line

[@radscorpion8]

that quote really makes no sense

[@TennesseeJed]

Rachel you are a powerhouse! Thank you!

[@dianewallace6064]

Hi Jed!!! Yes, Rachel rocks!

[@TennesseeJed]

@@dianewallace6064 Hi Diane, my sista collapsatarian! (sorry no way to spell check that word)

[@dianewallace6064]

@@TennesseeJed LOL. I'm not fancy. I'm just a collapser. LOL.

[@j.s.c.4355]

When I was a kid the 1970’s, there were PSA’s on television exporting people to care for the planet on behalf of their grandchildren. Today, that particular arms’ lengthy argument is not necessary, because the generation that will live through the consequences is entering adulthood.

[@DrSmooth2000]

And we have no kids so rings hollow

[@richardbergson1047]

There are a few occasions when you suddenly see yourself in someone else. I have none of the learning and activism that Bob has but I felt a powerful mutual vibration as he spoke about how he experienced the world and what he valued. Connection is so important and maybe at the core of this new direction in which we need to travel is finding that connection with each other regardless of surface differences.

[@missshroom5512]

Coming together to collect the fruit together as a community reminds of when as a community we should be collecting trash on our streets or outdoor areas. I take a trash bag and go up and down a few of our main roads every spring and every fall. I just do it. We collectively can get so much done. Also having just become an empty nester I found myself being heartbroken that now my children are in the capitalistic hamster wheel. I don’t know just alittle sad

[@alwayscurious599]

We are already in functional extinction. Too many people and not enough food. The climate extremes are already taking out the crops across the globe and the wet bulb affect is killing 37% more people around the equator than last year.

[@mpemberton7760]

Meanwhile, the only "green energy" solutions we've come up with are wind farms, solar panels and EVs, all of which are costly and non-viable. I'm not very optimistic about the future of our world.

[@larzhillbot1443]

@@mpemberton7760 spot on green energy will only provide may be 2 percent of are ever growing demands we are toast

[@mpemberton7760]

@@larzhillbot1443 Don't worry, our governments will surely come up with solutions! 🙄

[@DrSmooth2000]

IMF calculated stable number of food insecure for next few years anyway

[@the_Kurgan]

"No problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking" Voltaire

[@DrSmooth2000]

Well also implies some Doing 😅

[@the_Kurgan]

​@DrSmooth2000 😊 well, maybe someday people will quote you. You're right if course. I have another quote but I can't remember who said it."Progress requires both motion and direction."

[@matthewdolan5831]

Good clear interview, well done.

[@Praylak]

He keeps saying there is no plan, but there is. Those that have the power, have a plan, that should be quite obvious by now. You're not gonna like the plan and its not humane at all.

[@NancyBruning]

Wonderful. A perfect articulation of where I am at the moment. Thanks to you both. Signed, a city kid.

[@gordonmilligan8847]

Not only a great talk, but now also a new artist and ‘Runaway Train’ / Beautiful World in my record collection! .. Thank you so much ☺️

[@yvesgingras1475]

How do you join a community, Im a young millenial and I cant find any community that is not fueling the machine of destruction?!?!

[@sciencespotter]

My wife and I were just having this conversation. My opinion is that farming communities are the key to create communal resilience. And the great news is that there is actually affordable housing out there in the country.

[@NancyBruning]

Make that community wherever you are. If not, move to where you can. Believe it or not I’m working on this in my good old home town: New York City.

[@NancyBruning]

@@sciencespotter yes, cities have gotten so expensive. I was lucky to buy into a cooperative over 20 years ago in an uncool Neighborhood. So: it was affordable.

[@yvesgingras1475]

@@NancyBruning Sadly I lack social skill and cant afford to move. Tha said, I wont give up! Ill find my place in this world!

[@aum82]

Fantastic podcast! Stoked I found you ✌️

[@user-qc8lj2ej6v]

I feel we all are meant to be here now, I feel there's a reason for this population to be here now, if it's not only to celebrate being alive, it's also to celebrate the transformation we and the world is going through!!! It's a time of waking up, if not from difficulties we are experiencing, it's from love!! There's big jobs to do on earth now, even if it's just simply to be love, to help those feeling hardship and difficulties!!!

[@shultsy100]

Hello and am only half way thru this discussion and REALLY been enjoying it. Just subscribed and hit all the bells. Way to go with this beautiful channel and am excited to listen to more! Thank You and BEST!!!!

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

Her latest interview didn't get posted to youtube though? Maybe she doesn't like critical youtube comments. haha.

[@MrPaddy924]

Your best interview yet, Rachel. Enjoyed it a lot.

[@JaseboMonkeyRex]

I love and respect the wisdom and knowledge shown here and a theme running throughout on hard questions , there are hard answers one being there will be no humane journey from 8 billion to 2 billion ....in fact we'll be lucky if there are 60 million people on the planet by 2100 because you are correct when you say the scale of the contraction is unthinkable or unknowable ... But the good news will be small scale communities will be where we stabilise and recover and I think it's time to do what the Jesuits did and collect the vast knowledge and wisdom and store it for future societies particularly in medicine ! We are not going back to before, let's hope not anyways because now has changed us so much and we know too much and we must preserve the knowledge of science and medicine to ensure we can pick up the best threads and build something truly amazing ....

[@chesterfinecat7588]

"We'll be lucky" is a funny way to think but, fortunately, alien harvest is a relatively humane process. 10 billion peoploids poached to perfection, vacuum packed and sold at record prices. Zarbonklonic!

[@PeterTodd]

Such a lovely and interesting conversation. Learning facts are gathering new information are great but stories are much more engaging and at times so much more powerful and dare I suggest also more effective at changing narratives. Thank you Rachel and Bob.

[@stevebreedlove9760]

Robert Jensen's All My Bones Shake was instrumental in my intellectual development. I read it whilebI was binging material on peak oil and the challenges of energy descent. This was a great conversation.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

this cleaning ditches in New Mexico for flood irrigation sounds like the real deal.

[@swapanghosh9867]

In case you don't know.. Places that were carpet bombed juped back to vegetation earlier than heat traps we call citied.

[@ianboreham7669]

Very good interview. Lots to think about.

[@shadowofmyfutureself]

Fantastic conversation. Terrifying. Inspiring.

[@richardallan2767]

Wonderful chat. In thinking what we want to survive from current culture, as we contract and consolidate in order to survive, the answer will certainly be in small scale, agrarian communities, but we should try and keep our global links, our communications, our information, our tech. Many tiny communities still linked as one species, and one planet. Basically, all this incredible tech development literally cost us the Earth. It would be disrespectful to the planet to waste that advancement. To let it all fall into forgetting. And i am fairly sure than slowing and shrinking down will lead to the wisdom to not destroy ourselves with our developments as we have thus far.

[@user-zz7vj3de5v]

I just found your page yesterday, and it is so good to hear voices that are telling both the hard truth, and, the possible solutions.. as compared to "narrative" AS truth which is so often lies.. An this, is so rampant in the popular culture, and the govt-media. Hard council, AND, hope !! Well done !! and THanks !!

[@john1boggity56]

More brilliance!!!!!

[@madameblatvatsky]

Great conversation thanks. Relieved it wasn't Henry Kissinger 😁

[@j.s.c.4355]

Tom Petty put it: “the future ain’t what it used to be.”

[@steveberkson3873]

Super-critical conversation that must be had,heard,shared. Population,consumption..Thanks

[@SuB-gy4rb]

I refused to have children because I recognized what was going on in the world around 13, that was 50+ years ago. I gave up on anything changing about 30 years ago. I feel so bad for the kids being born & raised now, it just makes me really sad that it seems so few understand where we are headed.

[@ronkrate609]

Systems needed, so too community organizers. There are many similar talks available in recent years.

[@markusschellenberg4684]

Bob, you spoke right out of my heart!

[@Changeworld408]

Right out of his heart

[@graemetunbridge1738]

I watched your eyes glaze over as Bob talked about communal farming. 😀

[@jjessicalynn]

Great interview, thank you

[@Changeworld408]

Rachel, your hair makes you so cute and this interview with this incredibly wise narrator and humble human doing was a real treat. I love yr truthfullness and honest face and natural look. I love your style and wish good luck with the new unitiative❤

[@ewelinawegiel720]

Thank You for this conversation! Amazing! Do you have any information about the research on Gen Z you mentioned in the beginning?

[@PlanetCritical]

My pleasure! And I don't have a citation to hand I"m afraid.

[@mrrecluse7002]

Community participation is the closest we might get to our hunter/gatherer origins. But there are too many of us to save in a world of 8 billion plus, in these circumstances, and with the trajectory we're on. Maybe Bob was referring to a population of one to two billion, after nature downsizes, (as in culls), us to a liveable habitat, with "fewer people with far less energy."

[@davidcanatella4279]

The way to deal with the hard work question is to let the rich do their own work and stop feeding them until they join the human beings

[@swapanghosh9867]

It means so much.

[@johnmitchell2741]

I live in a small summer tourist lake town in Arkansas and I'm overwhelmed by the traffic and super large Trucks and SUVs Boat's, Campers and just people everywhere burning through gas,money and commodities. We deserve whats coming .

[@basilbrushbooshieboosh5302]

Bravo, Rachel, Bravo

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

Wow Jim Koplin is from Minneapolis and was a founding member of Hampshire College? I went to Hampshire College for my 1st year and I am from Minneapolis also.

[@MH-53E]

It's wonderful that you're trying to get people together on a common goal. The problem is in the problem. We have so many concrete, solvable issues facing us today, yet for some reason we MUST pick this one abstract issue of climate. My goodness, we cant even come together on the simple existence of said problem. Seems to me we could do a much better job at solving a problem that at least we agree exists. Climate Change isn't it and never will be. I tend to think this is on purpose.

[@adambazso9207]

And what would be a problem that in your opinion really exists and could be solved?

[@vladimir0700]

Yes, predictions are difficult--especially about the future

[@chesterfinecat7588]

Look what's in your hand.

[@radscorpion8]

@@chesterfinecat7588 i see wrinkles

[@CharlesBrown-xq5ug]

Lossy Thermodynamics Thank you and your guest for your introduction to a world view that I need to synergize with. I may have a win all rescue technoloy that isn't glitsy. I was born to a artistic mother and electrical engineer father who were wealthy and supported my early love of reading. They did not push me upscale. I took to heart early that when civilization developed agriculture time was freed up to think which was often captured by elites so I didn't rush through a grey flannel suit factory high school that instilled conformity (I didn't read the book but it may make my point). Instead I went independent because the school would therefore overteach some things and omit possibly useful other things.therefore I gathered thinking time guided by independent reading. In 1964 I was inspired by Isaac Asimov's thought experiment vision of the perpetual convertability of energy. I kept the vision in spite of his next anthology section on entropy. My father as a civilian radar technician during WWll felt that Hawaii was paradise. In 1964 I was given a sumer school exchange student semester on Kauai. I too like Kauai. It is tangentally American. 1964- 1965 was amazing. I also began to be a Baha'i then. The Bahai's forsee a peaceful+agricultural+decentralized+wholesomely educated+multicultural+egalitarian+diversified+unified world. Aloha

[@swapanghosh9867]

Here too.

[@CloudhoundCoUk]

Unfortunately, with the likes of populist politicians, the necessary change is not likely. The political-economic system prevents change. History illustrates an attempt to change the political-economic system, generally has very unpleasant consequences. Usually, the innocent pay the price. The problem is human greed.

[@Argee55732]

Can humans ever just stand still? All want the same life? Be content? We are all too different. Can 8 billion people be trained or brainwashed to just get along? To accept our surroundings, our relationships as they are? With no desire or drive to create? Not to try and make each week, each year, better than the last? Or, we are all our worst enemies. Will it always come down to survival of the fittest.

[@adambazso9207]

We can't even cooperate in a village. And if surviving means adapting to a social hierarchy akin to feudalism or something similar, I don't want to survive to be honest. In these conversations they almost never mention the difference between personality-types. Like for example more introverted people are not so good in cooperating or connecting with others, they don't like societal and group-pressure. And they are even different types in this group of introverted people. We are so different even just in a family! Cooperation on a global scale is completely impossible.

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

We’re meat puppets unfortunately.

[@ErnestOfGaia]

I think the human transition will happen as a response to surviving sea level rise

[@manashpratimsaikia1621]

Thank you so much for the amazing conversations on issues that actually matter. * Will it be possible to invite Dr Vandana Shiva to your podcast? -From Assam (North East) India.

[@PlanetCritical]

I hope so! I'm yet to find a contact for her :)

[@tomatao.]

Also please platform Dr. Elaine Ingham

[@ColetteCrutcher]

Joy and woe are woven fine, A clothing for the soul divine, Under every grief and pine, Runs a joy with silken twine. It is right it should be do, Man was made for joy and woe, And when this we rightly know, Thro’ the world we safely go. -William Blake

[@tomatao.]

Please platform Geoff Lawton and Rose Morrow 🙏

[@basilbrushbooshieboosh5302]

13:00 If we want a transition to a world of humane treatment and equality between us, we would also require equality between nations and thus agreement in our communication between nations. I can't see this happening without fiscal parity between nations, where a person anywhere can expect the same value for their unit of work, as they can for their unit of money. This would entail not only a single global fiscal system, but also a single global government. I don't see humans as ready for this in any way at all.

[@ronkrate609]

Too bad, her audio is always poor on my Chromebook, so I always thus far give up

[@abody499]

While I totally agree on a limit to consumption, I cant say I'm in agreement with a limit to numbers here, but the idea that no one has a plan to reduce them is funny - not peculiarly - because if there's one reason more than others that we're heading for international showdown on the geopolitical front, it's a reduction in numbers. The plan couldn't be clearer.

[@tsubion8820]

Population reduction by any means! Famine, pestilence, war... not sure it's enough though, might have to pull out the REALLY big guns!

[@postholocene]

there is no plan. overshoot -> dieoff. we do it ourselves or it will be done to us.

[@ralphtoivonen2071]

Essentially we had 40 years to do something and we didn't. Catastrophic collapse will enforce a solution.

[@danielmcardle3476]

I don't agree that life in the future is beyond our wildest imagination. I think if we look back two or 300 years or maybe a thousand we can see what the life in the future is going to look like except we will have way more good technology because we'll have loads more ideas. I think it might actually be better than the modern, current, frankly horrific reality.

[@abody499]

I think telling people not to go to university is perhaps the single worst piece of advice anyone can give anyone else. We need more people thinking, and with the ability to think way beyond what is normal in the world today. It's precisely that dearth in ability that allows capitalism to prevail. Thinking dialectically is very hard work that not enough people are willing to do. Empowering people to do it though is a necessary starting point to addressing all issues we face.

[@tsubion8820]

You don't need to go to "university" to think. And free-market capitalism is the only reason we have any of the things we use on a daily basis.

[@abody499]

@@tsubion8820 Ken Wilber found in his research that around 4% of people in the US have the ability for dialectical thought. Post-grad education is mostly where that ability is learnt. There's no such thing as a free market - it's a complete misnomer. Free markets are supposed to comprise informed individuals making rational choices whereas in practice you have a population of participants misinformed by the marketing and advertising industry. Moreover, take the stock market - what exactly is "free" about a market that is subsidised by fed money printing fueling stock buy backs and hyper inflation of prices? What % of markets have a free price discovery? Free market doctrine is so easy to crush. Furthermore, it's underpinned by the concept of private property - a human construction that is disconnected from its own component parts, most notably in this case by a disconnect from its material source, the lithosphere, and with no regard for its consequences of destroying the biosphere. The vast majority of people have no idea what that means because they didn't learn it and weren't informed, thus a completely uninformed market making irrational choices.

[@tsubion8820]

@@abody499 You have been successfully indoctrinated in the marxist communist ideological fantasy. No private property? Give me a break commie. Run along. I repeat, you don't need to endure the university brainwashing system and subject yourself to post-grad nonsense just to be able to think critically. The fact that you believe that to be true shows that you are very much a product of that system which I think is abhorrent and a total scam for suckers. Any single tradesman has more common sense and critical thinking ability than all of the PHDs put together. And free-market capitalism is an ideal position to aim for. We have crony corporate capitalism dominating right now which will obviously implode at some point. Other top down attempts at societal organization have failed so badly that we don't need to entertain those ideas ever again. Freedom or as close as we can get to it is the best we can hope for.

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

No free market or will.

[@abody499]

​ @dermotmeuchner2416 you make the point for me. Not only is advanced thought at a premium, but communicating those thoughts, too, seems beyond the capabilities of many.

[@stefanbernardknauf467]

At the beginning, saying that this change is like nothing we have seen before, is not true. We just have to look at the fall of the Roman empire. That said, as horrible as it is, the analysis of the fall of the Roman empire has actually not been completed. It is more a couple of books with the interpretations and opinions of historians! Keep going!

[@nickkacures2304]

If I insulate my house better and lower my electricity needs and also install a solar system that meets all my family’s requirements for electricity including transportation why wouldn’t that be a good thing to do should I continue to burn fossil fuels with reckless abandon and a total disregard for the predicament that we are in

[@clarkdavis5333]

So glad I found your channel! Robert is always amazing.

[@swapanghosh9867]

He said Drain the swamp.

[@stevefitt9538]

He said nobody is willing to face just how much our societies will have to change. I think I've come close. I propose that we start a WWII style rationing program in all advanced nations. We have to think like a city under siege.; then all the food was gathered to be rationed, our "food" is fossil fuel energy. We need to massively increase foreign aid to the global south. We have to stop being selfish. We have to enter panic mode of taking actions. We have to study and find geoengineering projects to buy time; they can only be temporary, meaning about a decade. But, we must avoid tipping the *next* tipping point; and we don't know which one it is and at what temp it will be tipped, so we must keep temp increases to a minimum by any means required. I know that at some point it will be necessary to adopt a folkway of some Plaines tribes of Native Americans; the one where the old stated behind to die when the tribe moved, so that their grandchildren could live.

[@hime273]

🤡

[@leviahimsa]

End speciesism. End human supremacy.

[@radscorpion8]

lol

[@davidcanatella4279]

Seeing how wonderfully responsible human have been i anticipated a slow extinction from nuclear waste. We’re not going to deal with it and in many parts of the world there simply is no dealing with it. We’re done

[@remicaron3191]

You’re only a slave to your work, if your work is done for others who make the profits. This puts 99% of us a slaves since we don’t own anything we work for. It’s the beauty of capitalism, convincing everyone almost that working for others for a wage is the same as working for yourself, your family and your community as an owner of your work. Without teaching our children this fact we only perpetuate the lie of capitalism. Own nothing personally but own everything communally and your hard work will pay you back a million folds. The problem is convincing everyone of this fact and building a society which isn’t infected with individualism to the point of self harm. This would solve the majority of the western problems we have in society like drug addiction, mental illness and despair.

[@stevefitt9538]

At the 21 min. mark, he asserts that now we can feed 8 billion people, if we were willing to distribute the food to all who need it. IMHO, this is an out of date conclusion. Meaning it was true 2 years ago. But, now with droughts, floods, the El Nino, and higher temps reducing crop yields, it is very likely that the harvest of 2024 will not be enough to feed 8 billion people with a normal number of calories.

[@hime273]

Thanks to Military Weather Modification/Geoengineering.

[@Changeworld408]

People are overfed and undernourished

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

Not in Gaza.

[@TheDoomWizard]

AR-15 with green tip ammo.

[@mpemberton7760]

Really?

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

All the drugs I can ingest lol.

[@swapanghosh9867]

Most pronlems are imagiary

[@skanthaadsigns]

Please please interview Guy MacPherson PhD

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

Frank M. Mitloehner, University of California, Davis, Professor of Animal Science and Air Quality Extension Specialist, University of California, Davis: A key claim underlying these arguments holds that globally, meat production generates more greenhouse gases than the entire transportation sector. However, this claim is demonstrably wrong, as I will show. And its persistence has led to false assumptions about the linkage between meat and climate change. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the largest sources of U.S. GHG emissions in 2016 were electricity production (28 percent of total emissions), transportation (28 percent) and industry (22 percent). All of agriculture accounted for a total of 9 percent. All of animal agriculture contributes less than half of this amount, representing 3.9 percent of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. Even if Americans eliminated all animal protein from their diets, they would reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by only 2.6 percent. According to the FAO’s statistical database, total direct greenhouse gas emissions from U.S. livestock have declined 11.3 percent since 1961, while production of livestock meat has more than doubled. FAO analysts used a comprehensive life-cycle assessment to study the climate impact of livestock, but a different method when they analyzed transportation. For livestock, they considered every factor associated with producing meat. This included emissions from fertilizer production, converting land from forests to pastures, growing feed, and direct emissions from animals (belching and manure) from birth to death. However, when they looked at transportation’s carbon footprint, they ignored impacts on the climate from manufacturing vehicle materials and parts, assembling vehicles and maintaining roads, bridges and airports. Instead, they only considered the exhaust emitted by finished cars, trucks, trains and planes. As a result, the FAO’s comparison of greenhouse gas emissions from livestock to those from transportation was greatly distorted. "By comparison, direct emissions from livestock account for 2.3 gigatons of CO2 equivalent, or 5% of the total. They consist of methane and nitrous oxide from rumen digestion and manure management. Contrary to transport, agriculture is based on a large variety of natural processes that emit (or leak) methane, nitrous oxide and carbon dioxide from multiple sources. While it is possible to “de-carbonize” transport, emissions from land use and agriculture are much more difficult to measure and control." Anne Mottet is a Livestock Development Officer with the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the United Nations in Rome, specialising in natural resource use efficiency and climate change. She has 15 years of work experience in research, quantitative analysis and strategic consulting to the agricultural sector. Henning Steinfeld is head of the livestock sector analysis and policy branch at the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the United Nations in Rome, Italy. He has been working on agricultural and livestock policy for the last 15 years, in particular focusing on environmental issues, poverty and public health protection.

[@vladimir0700]

My own assessment of sustainable human population is something on the order of 100-300 million

[@postholocene]

i've seen estimates as low as 20 million hunter-foragers. we're fucked.

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

I’m good with 2-3 people anything more and I leave the room.

[@danwilliams6003]

We are energy, the world is energy are people afraid of dying or surviving, learning new skills and using manual labour to harvest and produce. That is what people are worried about...not having heating, having to walk having to gather food and water...like 3/4 of the world. Loosing the black energy which replaces the energy in you.

[@thedragonflygate4587]

Ironically the Titanic tourism tragedy took place, is taking place as I post this comment. Mankind did not get the lesson of Titanic, or of WW1, or of WW2, (developing instead the atom bomb that is capable of assisting in our extinction rather than the eternal world peace that we imagined in our deluded state of mind). It did not get the lesson of 9/11 and of the Pandemic and of possible WW3 presently. Meanwhile we have seized on a simplistic solution to climate change as the answer to all our overwhelming problems that could be yet another 'wrong turn through the labyrinth'. Let us have some humility to consider that the earth, the solar system, the cycles are much bigger than we are and what we may need to do is to gain back a sense of the sacred. At this summer solstice I pray that the men trapped by the 'Spirit of the Depths' may have come to that in their agony and so find peace. We can at least let them serve us that much with their sacrifice.

[@ralphjohnson3396]

World population is going to go down. Pretty much every country outside of Africa has a birthrate below replacement rate. We need to figure out how to manage a world with a dwindling population. The percent of the world in deepest poverty has gone down from something like 90% 100 years ago, to something like 30% now. So, by that measure, riches are better shared than ever before. I do not believe in an impending collapse of civilization. I am 67, and there have been predictions of collapse my entire life. All of those predictions have been wrong. Yes, the future is going to be different from what we used to imagine. It is worthwhile to think about alternative visions of the future. But it will probably be different from anything we imagine.

[@Jc-ms5vv]

We’re pumping c02 into the atmosphere ten times faster then the petm extinction event. You should compare previous mass extinctions to the rate of this one

[@adambazso9207]

Yeah, yeah... and we heard the argument regarding the downgoing population of the world several times too...🤔

[@loumoon7660]

Where are all the hippies

[@dodiewallace41]

Reducing dependence on hydrocarbons won't come from blocking oil. It will come from having an equally effective substitute. If we're serious about reducing dependence on hydrocarbons, we would concentrate on adding more nuclear power. The fact that this isn't what you are advocating shows that lower emissions aren't actually your goal. I expect your point actually is to force everyone to have to live a pre-industrial agrarian lifestyle (but vegan) regardless of the suffering that "the great reset" would intail. This nonsense isn't pro environment it's anti-human.

[@swapanghosh9867]

Police don't weasr unifom exeplwhen a column nessary.

[@the_Kurgan]

People like him are going cause suffering like has never been seen.

[@chesterfinecat7588]

Judgemental aren't we? Ask the mouse who's met the cat what suffering has been seen. Hang out in Gaza for a week and get back to me.

[@Rnankn]

That’s called shooting the messenger.

[@the_Kurgan]

@@chesterfinecat7588 Do you think Palestinians or anyone else will suffer less when these Marxists take away your ability heat your home or buy food?

[@the_Kurgan]

@@Rnankn No shooting the messenger is shooting the messenger. Speaking against evil Marxists is speaking.

[@Changeworld408]

Like Putin and Netanyahu are causing suffering waging wars

[@CharlesBrown-xq5ug]

Cancel the second law of thermodynamics. Chose perpetually changeble and conserved energy . The second law of thermodynamics is a misstep in civilization that began with Isaac Newton's correct professional observation that the heat of a fire in a fireplace always flows towards the cold room beyond, never in the reverse direction. Scientific interest in heat peaked when Victorian England became enchanted with steam engines and their cheap physical power. Scientists of the era with wide cultural support formulated the second law of thermodynamics which unfortunately leads to the consequence that the universe will end in stagnant heat death. Education has mass produced belief in this law and its consequence ever since. The conventional wisdom throughout society now is that the second law of thermodynamics is valid. An atribute of heat is the nanometer scale random Brownian motion of mobile electrons also known as Johnson Nyquist thermal electrical noise. Mobile electrons in the depletion region of a diode are rectified by their interaction with the surronding structure. The inner electrical equlibrium created depletion region straddles the abrupt physical junction between the N type and P type regions of a basic diode. The depletion region has variable electrical conductivity which depends on the energy and direction of motion of the mobile electrons inside. If the net motion of mobile electrons there is towards the P type region, the depletion region contracts and the electrical conductivity will increase, conveying the electrons further into the P type region and beyond. If the net motion of mobile electrons in the depletion region there is towards the N type region, the depletion region will expand and the electron current will decrease. Consistantly oriented diodes in parallel may be successful electrical Maxwell's Demons or Smoluchowski's Trapdoors. The energy needed to shift the depletion region's deterministic role is paid as a burden on the moving electrons. There would therefore be usable net current at some voltage from rectified thermal noise. Any diode efficiency at all nets some energy conversion from ambient heat, more efficiency yields higher performance. A diode array that is switched off has no energy conversion and no performance. The power from a single diode is poorly expressed. Several or more diodes in parallel are needed to overcome the effect of a load resistor's own noise. A plurality of billions of high frequency capable diodes is needed for practical power aggregation. ~2THz is the maximum frequency available in nature. This is beyond the range of most diodes. Practicality requires this extreme bandwidth. The diodes are preferably in same orientation parallel at the primary level. Many primary level groups of diodes should be in series for practical voltage. Diodes in massive same orientation parallel are easily fabricated between an ohmic contact layer abutting all the anodes and another ohmic contact layer abutting all the cathodes with identical very small laterally isolated diodes between. Without the second law of thermodynamics civilization would know it could have perpetually convertable conserved energy which is the form of free energy where energy is borrowed from the massive heat reservoir of our sun warmed planet and converted into electricity anywhere, anytime with slight variations. Electricity produces heat when used by electric heaters, motors, or ligts so the energy borrowed by these devices is promply returned without gain or loss. There is also the reverse effect where refrigeration produces electricity equivalent to the cooling which is scientifically elegant. Cell phones wouldn't die or need power cords or batteries or become hot. They would cool when transmitting radio signal power. Computers and integrated circuits would have their cooling and electrical needs supplied autonomously simultaniously. Integrated circuits wouldn't need power pinouts. Robots would have extreme mobility. Frozen food storage would be reliable and free or value positive. That means storehouses, homes, and markets would have independent power to preserve food. Vehicles wouldn't need fuel or fueling stops. Elevators would be very reliable with independent power. Water and sewage pumps may be placed anywhere. Nomads could raise their material supports item by item carefully and groups of people could modify their settlements with great technical flexibility. Many devices would be very quiet, which is good for coexisting with nature and does not disturb people. Zone refining would involve little net power. Reducing Bauxite to Aluminum, Rutile to Titanium, and Magnetite to Iron, would have a net cooling effect. With enough clean cheap power, minerals could be finely pulverized, and H2O, CO2, and other substance levels in the biosphere could be modified. There should be a unitary agency to look after our global planetary concerns. In 1973 I filed for a patent, us3890161A, Diode Array, for a device which absorbs heat converting it to an equivelent amount of electrical energy via aggrgated rectified Johnson noise from a plurality of consistently aligned very small diodes. The patent was granted in 1975 and became public domain technology in 1992. The patent is attribution for my thinking in 1973. It is a new paradigm in science and civilization. Everyone should contribute to civilization's advancement cooperatively. Inventions that are widely published become unpatentabe. A public incorruptable archive could secure attrbution for the original works of creators. Uncorrupted copies would be releaseed on request. No further action would be taken by this institution Many financially and procedurally independent teams that pool developmental knowlege, and may be funded by noncontrolling crowd sourced grants should convene themselves to develop proof-of-concept and initial recipe prototypes to develop devices which coproduce electrical energy and an equivalent absorbtion of ambient thermal energy. The thermal energy is not in flux between two large scale reservoirs of different temperature. These devices would probably become segmented commodities manufactured by AI that does not need fimancial incentive. The rest of ambient heat upcycling commerce would be worldwide collaborative cooperation with minimal margin over supply cost that adopts applicable best practices without wealth extracting top commanders. Aloha Charles M Brown lll Kauai Hawaii

[@leviahimsa]

Animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation, habitat destruction, water pollution, ocean dead zones and *species extinction* . -United Nations FAO The most comprehensive *meta-analysis* conducted to date with 119 countries, shows avoiding animal products is the *"SINGLE BIGGEST WAY"* to reduce our environmental impact. -Oxford University 925 million humans (1 in 9) suffer from hunger, yet 80 billion animals enslaved in farms are given enough human edible food that could support 4 billion humans directly. -University of Minnesota The largest study published to date reveals that the healthiest and least hazardous dietary choices for dogs are nutritionally sound plant based diets. -Prof Andrew Knight, University of Winchester Reduce human interference with other species. Go vegan! ✌️🍉

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

Wow you keep repeating the same b.s. that I already corrected? hilarious. Have you ever even grown vegetables on a farm? They require animal manure - domesticated animal manure. hahaha. Humanure composting is a good start. But animals themselves do not cause global warming. Sorry.

[@richardallan2767]

Actually the biggest way to impact is to have less or no kids.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@richardallan2767 The U.S. has 4.9% of the world's population but has far exceeded its carbon budget already, per capita. The US military has over 700 bases in over 100 other countries and so is clearly the largest emitter of pollution. The "carbon footprint" was great propaganda from British Petroleum as Rachel pointed out in this channel. Europe, Russia and the U.S. already have gone beyond their cumulative carbon budget levels. So yeah if they all stopped having children that would be awesome.

[@richardallan2767]

@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 Oh yeah, for sure, the demographic that needs to stop reproducing so much is rich, well not just westerners, but rich anyone. The kind of people who fly their lear jet down to the shops to buy a new yacht. But also, the families in say, indonesia, who have many kids and have to cut down essential and rare ecosystems to get their fuel and food have their own kind of profound impact. We need to put planet before ourselves. Then, paradoxically, we will get to thrive again, in a different way.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@richardallan2767 A top-secret CIA report from 1968 stated that the massacres "rank as one of the worst mass murders of the 20th century, along with the Soviet purges of the 1930s, the Nazi mass murders during the Second World War, and the Maoist bloodbath of the early 1950s." Deaths: 500,000: -1,000,000+: 1965-1966. So much for Eco-Socialism. The CIA made sure that did not happen in Indonesia so now Phil Knight can make billions off slave wage jobs in Indonesia.

[@CentaurUK90]

It's difficult to actually fathom what point Jensen is making here since it's plagued with psychobabble. But since he acknowledges that fossil fuels have been responsible for the huge increase in human population, then clearly it has been a good thing for humans who have thrived as a result. So if he's advocating stopping the use of FF what does he intend replacing it with to simply maintain existing life, because all the alternatives so far just cannot fill the gap ?

[@dermotmeuchner2416]

It is not his choice it will be nature making the decision.

[@CentaurUK90]

quite, so WHY do the climate loonies want to keep interfering with nature's function, when it's more likely to cause unintended consequences ?@@dermotmeuchner2416

[@donk1634]

A lobster in every pot. Hmmm.

[@AaronNGray]

Basically there are random radioactive dust storms on Mars of a level of radiation three times the level that makes the human genome protect itself against radiation.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

perfect place for Elon Mush's strip club

[@Dan5482]

It's past time to get rid of Capitalism and adopt a new system, like Eco-Socialism.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

yeah because Western industrialization doesn't include socialism.

[@richardallan2767]

i think all systems will do the same sort of thing until we get they are just labels we put on our biological drives to expand and use all available resources. We need a world where we collectively, and individually, discipline ourselves to control and surpass those for the sake of future generations having the ability to exist.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@richardallan2767 You can study our original human culture from over 70,000 years ago - that still exists today. San Bushmen and "pygmies" - they know how to live properly and they're still around today! The fact that hardly anyone knows the details of how they live just proves why we're so messed up today. The "radical anthropology" vimeo lecture series or Jerome Lewis anthropologist on youtube are good starts. Brad Keeney Center on youtube has interviews with the San Bushmen. thanks

[@linmal2242]

Fruit harvesting....there are WOOFERS who will help if you can find them.

[@swapanghosh9867]

I have a different opinon. Look If someune knows food and health other than on a converpr belt orbit Bah Better quality of life is already here look at TV and moviies are telling you that basic issues. Changed are smooth from Trump to a tautomerism And maybe Tyump will be back. Take a bet?

[@andyash5675]

Contrary to what was said here, technology has lifted the poor out of poverty. That's why so many people in Africa, India have a mobile phone. Indeed that is how they have come to aspire to a nice home, a car and all the other things that the planet cannot support.

[@adambazso9207]

This is a bit more complex than this simplistic approach. Yes, technological advancements had also positive effects. And? They are causing a lot of problems too, at the same time.

[@bentray1908]

I want to find an island far away from people like these where i can build prosperity without negative people destroying it.

[@bentray1908]

Stupid communist dreams will not lead to anything but stupid communist prizes.

[@CHGLongStone]

Asking the right questions, too bad the "answers" are based in 50 year old club of Rome rhetoric.

[@johnmitchell2741]

ignorance is bliss