A MASSIVE Change: GORE-TEX's New Membrane

[@hoppy1970]

No mention of the breathability figures anywhere that I can see online.

[@Rocky_Hill_Iron_Works]

The only accurate video I've ever seen about GORE-TEX was the one FortNine did, worth a watch.

[@milco8755]

So… breatheability is effectively going to be taking a hit unless you are prepared to watch seam tape degrade on your jacket through regular washing. How will that affect warranties? Or will we be expected to tape / seal seams in the future? This will be fine for the majority of consumers I imagine with the exception of outdoor professionals? I know you have sponsorship requirements and don’t want to annoy anyone but I think a video in the future showing off different membranes would be very informative. E.g goretex pro ePTFE, Goretex ePE, Pertex Shield, e-Vent, Fjallraven Eco-Shell etc etc etc.

[@telkmx]

if anyone would deep down on gore tex and alternatives they would realize that many test show its not that superior compared to other similar fabric

[@jacobhandyside5863]

what they're talking about isn't a lie but it is very misleading: YES the new ePe doesn't affect its waterproofing when it gets wetter faster BUT it does affect its breathability which they fail to mention (convenient eh?). When a jacket 'wets out' like that the breathability of the jacket is hindered massively (that's why we have DWR in the first place).

[@khalid969]

Might as well just buy a rubber PE coated jacket in that case.

[@telkmx]

this is an ad no ?

[@StephenTurnerVlogs]

This is a Gor and Mountain Equipment ad.

[@StephenTurnerVlogs]

Unless your jacket is coming apart at the drama, just keep cleaning and proofing it. Why don't companies work to repair their millions of products, for less than the cost of a new jacket, and maybe don't maybe jackets for a year?

[@ukclimbingofficial]

I completely agree regarding repair as opposed to replace. There are more and more repair services cropping up at the moment and hopefully the trend continues (and people use it).

[@-TheRealChris]

The problem is anything that has seam tape is damaged everytime you wash it so the more it needs washing the shorter its life will be.

[@Kenethica]

An extra plus, but this personal, gear that has been worn and repaired over and over just looks good.

[@ukclimbingofficial]

@@-TheRealChris We'd completely disagree from experience and say that washing a jacket is far more likely to prolong its life.

[@-TheRealChris]

@@ukclimbingofficial You obviously haven't kept a seam taped garments for very long and washed them meany times, then there's the fact re-proofing with re-proofing chemicals such as Nikwax is never even close to as good as the factory DWR.

[@johnfletcher9907]

Great vid thanks and I do agree with the direction manufacturers are moving, however I think they need to look closely at RRPs given that the result of a more environmentally friendly product is essentially a less effective one. Or atleast one we need to spend a frequent amount of money on reroofing. In todays society of subscription living where we don’t buy things to own anymore we just pay monthly to have access to them, the whole re proofing a waterproof has always felt a bit of a con to me. Plus if you look into how goretex basically racketeers the waterproofing clothing industry by forcing brands to sign lengthy and restrictive contracts in order to use its fabric and logo on their products, (seriously look into it!) the whole thing just feels like consumers are getting shafted. I seriously wonder if economically speaking it would be better to buy a cheapo waterproof and just throw it away and buy another a few times a year when it stops being waterproof than to outlay 400 quid on a jacket which for the life of the thing you have to spend 13 quid every few months to keep it working. There’s maybe some unforeseen freakanomics type irony to manufacturers trying to be environmentally and passing the cost onto the consumer which just forces them to go elsewhere and buy disposable mass produced stuff to use and throw away. Environmentally speaking I think the could be a big own goal!

[@Rocky_Hill_Iron_Works]

That's a very good point, you can buy meany meany sets of Frog Toggs for the price of one GORE-TEX outfit!

[@milco8755]

All that marketing by Gore costs a lot of money! 😂 Their margins though are still incredibly healthy, however, that may change as they will have to do some serious R&D work over the coming years to maintain that “brand reputation”. Having said that polyethylene (the PE in ePE), better known as plastic bags or poly bags, is incredibly, incredibly cheap to manufacture… So I would imagine that this move will mean any R&D costs will be irrelevant due to the massive manufacturing cost saving going forward. Can you imagine any large company saying to their garment manufacturers, “we are happy with our current profitability. We recommend you pass a 15% RRP saving onto the customer.” Let’s face it, very few average gore tex consumers will find out about this change. Gore aren’t announcing this change on the new tags of items with this membrane. I spotted the new Makalu 2 weeks ago and it still has the same goretex tag on it. Even though it’s this seasons colours and it says it on the ME website.

[@sentralsix]

Pretty sure these guys already made an advert I mean video about new goretex… Full of absolute BS. Yes it’s better for the environment, but don’t blatantly lie to your viewers about it being “just as good) as OG goretex.

[@freddysgonagetu]

​@@sentralsix "OG goretex" 😂are you strutting around in 50/60 year old coat thinking it's better than current models? you must be seriously deluded! If you've never had an EPE jacket then how would you even know?

[@-TheRealChris]

@@freddysgonagetu could easily mean Gor-tex from a few years ago, but i agree it was over hyped rubbish too just like EPE is.

[@rorymarston7849]

What happened to the Scarpa veloce review??

[@ukclimbingofficial]

We’re due to film it next week, so watch this space…

[@c0okiemon5ter]

I would really like for someone to make a serious comparison with Dermizax NX

[@ukclimbingofficial]

Agreed, it'd be really interesting to see how it performed side-by-side

[@-TheRealChris]

Well the original GORE-TEX was super disappointing and it sounds like this is going to be worse again by a decent margin.

[@ukclimbingofficial]

That is certainly not what we found testing it in some pretty extreme weather!

[@-TheRealChris]

@@ukclimbingofficial EPE is basically what GORE-TEX's competitors have been using for decades to avoid paying royalties to GORE-TEX and it has the same issues. Once the factory layer of DWR has worn off it wets out which means it can no longer breathe and is then like wearing a leaky plastic bag. Yea you can try and treat it with Nikwax or similar but it's never the same and will basically be a plastic bag whenever it rains for ever after. At that point your better off just wearing something made of wool, you will get soaked in rain water which is a lot better than sweat and you will still stay warm.

[@chrisrutley1332]

​@@-TheRealChris lmao, you're suggesting that people ski and climb mountains in WOOL?

[@-TheRealChris]

@@chrisrutley1332 Well it's better than the crap they are trying to sell you here by far, if you don't agree go and test it and get back to me. Don't just go along with the marketing BS you are being fed from ad's like this video.

[@-TheRealChris]

@@chrisrutley1332 Nature still makes the best materials, why do you think down is still by far the best fill for sleeping bags and other ultra cold weather gear? (and yea anyone doing any SERIOUS mountaineering and other such cold weather activities is wearing down) If you want to bang on about how awesome Gor-tex is at least go and do some real world testing of your own first instead of just repeating the marketing crap you get from ads such as this video.

[@christopherdesantis9876]

Hmmm... Why not use the femtolaser tech on the face fabric so no DWR is necessary? Not like it's a new technology, jacket will weigh less and... No chemicals required ? Come on R&D, put some effort in.

[@ukclimbingofficial]

If it was that simple someone would have done it already. The fact they haven't suggests it's probably a lot more complex...

[@christopherdavidhall]

Basically means that gore is made the same as everyone else's high end membranes...

[@ukclimbingofficial]

That isn't strictly true, as there's a variety several methods of making membranes and different brands have different takes on what works best. Gore Tex features a microporous membrane; Polartec and eVent use a hydrophilic membrane; The North Face/Future Light use an electrospun membrane. There's a whole article to be written on the pros, cons and differences, but to say they're all the same is wrong.

[@-TheRealChris]

@@ukclimbingofficial Dude you made this video as an ad, it is an ad, everyone can see that, trying to argue with people in the comments is only making your position worse. Your a sellout, accept that everyone can see that and just be quite and try and hang onto the tiny shreds of whats left of your dignity.

[@21sanooj]

What pants are those?

[@ukclimbingofficial]

That's a very good question. They're a Rab softshell pant, but I can't remember the exact model...

[@funNactive1]

Get the PFC DWRs now while you can. I like my equipment too work!

[@alexanderslee]

Comparing GORE-TEX ePE to an electric car or even better, the analogy of more maintenance being like skin care (thanks lady!), is the proof I needed to know that this is a sham downgrade for us consumers.

[@ukclimbingofficial]

You've slightly misunderstood the electric car analogy. The point is that it's a big change for the industry. The major plus is that it's far more environmentally friendly. I wouldn't look at it as being a downgrade, it just requires you to wash your jacket.

[@myrddinmuse]

Nice video! Big change for the industry.

[@ukclimbingofficial]

It’s a huge step in the right direction from one of the biggest brands in the business. The fact it has a knock-on effect throughout the entire industry isn’t to be underestimated, as so many brands feature Gore Tex products.

[@trooperwolfie]

So goretex is now the same as E-vent....if i was event, id sue gore.

[@ukclimbingofficial]

It’s probably a good thing you’re not in charge of their legal team as it’s an entirely different construction: Gore is microporous whereas eVent is hydrophilic.

[@trooperwolfie]

@@ukclimbingofficial gore schill much?!? You need to look into event a bit more.

[@trooperwolfie]

@@ukclimbingofficial eVent® is a fabric designed to work as a waterproof and breathable membrane. It is used in a variety of outdoor garments, most commonly seen in waterproof jackets like our Patrol Parka. eVent® fabrics are designed to 'let the sweat out™' and use a patented waterproof membrane constructed of millions of tiny pores. This is an official statement from event, the only difference between event and gore Tex is the polyurethane layer....it requires washing regular to stop the pores being clogged...just like the new gore Tex.

[@ukclimbingofficial]

I used eVent a lot around 10-15 years ago, until most brands - at least within the UK - stopped using it. I completely agree about its breathability, as it was definitely a step-up from Gore Tex; however, it did - like you say - require a lot more care and maintenance and had a reputation for leaking. I wonder if many (or any) brands will move back towards it with the introduction of ePE 🤔

[@trooperwolfie]

@@ukclimbingofficial I hope brands do go back to event, that's what made some brands unique, it's why I loved Rab and Montane, but now they're all the same thing with nothing much to distinguish them. I worked in the outdoor industry for years, selling clothing, camping equipment etc. I had extensive training from both event and gore rep's. The only reason I'm not a huge fan of gore is their aggressive marketing, they're like the mafia of the outdoor/waterproof industry, they don't like competition, they make it extremely difficult for brands to use different materials for different garments with their strict licencing rules. It would be interesting to find out the REAL reasons Montane and Rab turned to goretex after years of using event. I take it there are several UKC staff replying to comments on here, as your comment here is far more cordial than the first reply I got.

[@khalid969]

If this new technology was any good, they wouldn't need people like you to "sell" it for them. What this basically means is that the Gore Tex jackets will now wet out within 20 or 30 minutes, thus rendering the jacket no longer breathable, which in turn renders the jacket no longer fit for purpose until you wash it and re-apply the coating. In this case, you might as well just go ahead and buy one of those $150 jackets with one of those inferior membranes, or even buy a PE coated jacket for $50!!

[@ukclimbingofficial]

I mean Gore-Tex always got people like us to ''sell' their products. It's called marketing.

[@creepingbrain]

You misunderstand. It doesn't mean that new gore-tex jackets wet out within 30 minutes. It means that you need to re-apply the DWR more often. You always had to do this with "old" gore-tex, now you'll have to re-apply a little more often. For most people this will still probably only be a couple of times a year.

[@Argcz]

sounds good to me

[@juanjo834]

If the outer layer gets wet, the jacket takes on more weight and it perspires less. If it also has to be washed on a regular basis, the heat seal is destroyed, this is obsolescence program, The first generations of gore tex lasted 20 years which is not very profitable for the industry and very ecological, these products in the name of environmentalism last 2 years if it arrives. Greetings, there will always be Wallapop and eBay lol 😂

[@ukclimbingofficial]

You seem to have been taken in by the myth that washing a jacket is bad for it, whereas the exact opposite is true - a washing and cleaning will without doubt extend the jacket's lifespan. There's no reason why a jacket with an ePE membrane will last any less long than a Gore Tex jacket of yesteryear. The only difference is that you'll have to wash and proof it more frequently because of its PFC-free DWR treatment, but again - this has a net positive effect both in terms of its performance and extending its lifespan.

[@juanjo834]

With all due respect, you are the one who is deceived by your sponsor clients, I have had many garments over more than 30 years, As everyone knows the washing machine destroys technical clothing in many points, not only do I do mountaineering, Ice climbing or sport climbing for almost 30 years, I have also sold technical mountain equipment, all these arguments actually make the jackets last 2 seasons, with the excuse of ecology we get into mass consumption. But as I say, you can always buy a good used Jacket , that's more responsible than buying a 600 euro experiment.

[@ukclimbingofficial]

When was the last time you tried washing a jacket? UKC staff members do it extremely regularly with jackets that are several years old - we've not been deceived - we've done it in practice! Modern jackets require it. It's a bit different to washing technical clothing from 30 years ago. Any modern wash and repair service will tell you this.

[@juanjo834]

@@ukclimbingofficial I have top-of-the-range equipment bought this season, like everyone I buy equipment constantly, you machine wash because they give you the equipment for that. It doesn't occur to anyone who has experience, if it can be washed by hand or with a sponge. That the new jackets are going to be more prone to getting wet just from the Outer fabric, you'll only take a step back At all levels.

[@johnfletcher9907]

@@juanjo834you are spot on. The issue here is a product which is less waterproof than its predecessors, but is somehow being championed as a step forwards. Your waterproof jacket will now require more regular washing, meaning you the consumer will be forced to spend time, faff, and additional money on special products just to keep it working. It’s ridiculous. I’m not knocking UKC because I love the channel and it’s videos but it’s clear from the comments on this video that the climbing community will not be taken as fools!