A Military Analysis of Starship Troopers

[@kingemperorpenguin1]

“What is the moral difference, if any, between a civilian and a citizen?” “A citizen watches a KingEmperorPenguin video, likes, shares and subscribes… ...a civilian does not.”

[@henrypaleveda7760]

greetings fellow citizen!

[@stanislavstoimenov1729]

Jean Rasczak: "You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote?" Student: "It's a reward. Something the federation gives you for doing federal service." Jean Rasczak: "No! Something given has no value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. THE SUPREME AUTHORITY FROM WHICH ALL OTHER AUTHORITIES ARE DERIVED." 😈

[@wojszach4443]

15:20 in book its the bugs, movie is vile mockery of source material

[@lwes4]

as a knonw starship troopers guy, i'm going to have to crush that pet thoery, the comic books that was prequil to the film and that came out before the movie, shwoed that bug could move astroides

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

This movie became unwatchable after I read the book. In the book, the Federation's go-to strategy for dealing with the Arachnids was to bombard the planet from orbit to eliminate as many surface forces as possible, land troops (all of whom are encased in full power armor wielding the rough equivalent of current day antitank weapons as their standard armament) to secure as many entrances to the Arachnids' tunnel network as possible, then flood the tunnels with poisoned gas.

[@polishFantasyEN]

"If the Federation were at war with any other sci-fi faction, they would lose". Well, a match up between them and the Last Order would be quite an even one.

[@cookingonthego9422]

They would hug and cry. :D

[@omegon2540]

The last order would turn up late to the fight

[@Seth9809]

What about the Hunger Games people?

[@kennethferland5579]

Put them up against the Battlefield Earth Psychlos species and I think they would have a good chance of victory, or atleast mutual annialation.

[@Seth9809]

They would do okay against most third world militaries, maybe even beat Russia or China 1 v 1.

[@CheemsofRegret]

9:15 funnily enough, in the original novel the movie is (very loosely) based on, the army has Powered Armor as standard issue for ground troops. In fact, it's one of the first instance of PA being used in any military science fiction story.

[@marley7868]

I believe it was invented by the book

[@AzureIV]

In the 3D animated movies, they have the Powered Armor.

[@ilejovcevski79]

Indeed, hence Mobile infantry. The suits they wear are more like anime mechas, that it provide for limited flight, augmented speed and strength and even operations in vacuum. On top of that, they carry several types of weapons and ordnance to cover different scenarios and threat types. They are also elites and practice quality over quantity doctrine. The movie makers just went full retard with the infantry for the sake of making a point. And as a satire, i don't think the movie warrants serious military analysis.

[@jcdf2]

I can understand why older movies did not incorporate this kind of thing, it was expensive. The first Iron man movie mastered the CGI necessary for something like this.

[@CheemsofRegret]

@@jcdf2 the first Iron Man movie actually used a lot of practical effects for the suit.

[@sammoore2082]

Have you ever considered doing April fools video doing a military analysis on space War tactics of Spaceballs?

[@daveholland6293]

Or Attack of the Martians lol

[@milkduds1001]

Us Soldier here. On your point about the soldiers not training with vehicles, tanks, or aircraft makes a lot of sense. In Army Basic Training we never did. Because basic teaches you the very basics of ground combat. Unless you’re in a specific job like tanker, you wouldn’t even touch a vehicle. Joint training is conducted after Basic when you go to your unit and attend brigade sized training. Such as JRTC (Joint Readiness Training Center) or NTC (National Training Center). Even then, the US is one of the very few nations that do joint training. Most countries don’t. So that’s actually accurate as far as the movie goes.

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

I don’t know about most countries but my country, India definitely does joint military training, and multiple times in the career of a serviceman. You sure most countries don't do that?

[@milkduds1001]

@@dragonstormdipro1013 As far as I’m aware India does not. If I remember there’s laws preventing large scale Joint training and operations between the Army, Navy, and Air Force in order to prevent potential Military Coups. Correct me if I’m wrong on that. As for joint training, yea it’s strictly a US thing. I’m talking large scale joint training between not only our different branches but also with foreign militaries as well. Very few countries have Brigade and Division sized training events that incorporate full integration between the multiple branches on a monthly basis. JRTC for example happens nearly every month with many units rotating through. All units participate in large scale exercises once a year or twice a year. Main reason the US is one of the few who does this is because of our massive defense budget. Any other Nation tried to do joint training to the scale of the US would have so much logistical and maintenance issues do to equipment and vehicles degrading or breaking down. Not to mention the sheer cost of manpower, food, ammunition, gas etc. Sure, many countries have exercises where there’s a few units from different branches doing training together. But not nearly to the size or scale as the US. One example is we sent a Brigade to Morocco once to do a joint training with local Moroccan forces. Full Naval, Army, and Air Force joint training. You don’t normally here other countries deploying an entire brigade sized echelon overseas for training.

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

@@milkduds1001 No, I am sure you have misinterpreted something. We regularly do inter-services, intra-services, and foreign exercises. There’s no law that prohibits joint training, rather it’s encouraged. Every 3 years there's one with 50-70 thousand troops and 1000+ armoured alongside Navy and IAF present. There's 4 main domestic joint training exercises we do, Gandiv Vijay, Pashchim lehar, Vajra Prahar, Vayu Shakti. All the bilateral and multilateral exercises are not included here. And we also graduate our cadets by doing Camp Torna which can also be called a pseudo JTE programme but juvenile compared to everything

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

@@milkduds1001 I don’t deny that the lack of funding does hamper the ability to do joint trainings the scale of US in a monthly basis but all regiments do get to do joint training every year. And we do foreign military training usually in Battalion level, with US, Russia, Britain, France, and others.

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

@@milkduds1001 But yeah, it’s certainly not in your scale, that's true. You guys rock on that. Sending an entire brigade overseas isn’t possible for us. It's a $70 bill military here compared to your $700 bill. But there's no law preventing anything. We have never had any coup, so why make law like that?

[@andrewwoodhead3141]

The irony is that , in the novel, the MI is equipped with some of the most effective weaponry invented in SciFi. Their Power Armoured ''Mobile Infantry'' makes the ''Space Marines'' from 40K look clumsy , poorly equipped and obsolescent . Their weapons are insanely powerful and , again , make the jazzed up gyro jets (''Bolters'') equipping the Space marines look like flintlock muskets by comparison.

[@BigBroTejano]

Which is kinda funny considering in the novel Johnny talks about them also learning how to shoot muskets in boot camp.

[@davidmccormick7419]

@@BigBroTejano never know when your going to get stuck on a barbarian world and need to fight with what the locals have.

[@old-worldghost3451]

Someone needs to remake the franchise but accurate to the book. Maybe a miniseries.

[@mirrormonstere113]

@@old-worldghost3451 they kinda did in the animated movie. 3 I think

[@Btk4813]

Heretic!

[@kingbranden1369]

Your first point is about Sgt. Zim is invalidated by the fact that federation healing technology is so far advanced that a broken arm can be repaired in no time. This is evidenced by the fact that Rico is literally seen in a medical tank with the massive hole in his leg being closed in seconds. Furthermore one of the main purposes of their training is to weed out any and all that do not have the resolve to become citizens. There is no penalty for quitting and recruits are actively pushed to do so if they don't have what it takes. Your second point about the training not involving Arachnids is also invalidated by the fact that humanity was not in conflict with the arachnids during their training. The movie opens with a flashforward. Conflict with the arachnids does not start until the meteor attack on Buenos Ares which is after all of the training scenes. Other than that you're right about the sheer ridiculousness and incompetence of the federation. It's typical Hollywood dramatization. It's supposed to be a dumb spectacle not a serious military conflict. I do recommend reading the book though. It is very different from the film and you're not getting spoiled on anything significant from having watched it.

[@painlord2k]

The incompetence of the Federation is a goal of the director of the movie. In fact, if you compare the movie and the book, it is very different

[@kingbranden1369]

@@painlord2k The book and the film are totally different stories. I think it's somewhat futile to try make comparisons to the books when the only similarities are the names of a few characters and the fact that the main character joins the military.

[@Riceball01]

To add to this, boot camp is called basic training for a reason, you receive very basic training. For the basics of what it means to be a Sailor/Airman/Sailor/Marine. You learn how to follow orders, how to march, salute, wear the uniform properly, etc. and (for the Marines & Army) some weapons handling training. It's not until after you graduate boot camp that you learn how to actually do whatever job it is that you joined the military for.

[@kingbranden1369]

@@Riceball01 I think you need to retype that.

[@Leoluvesadmira]

@@painlord2k not to mention Paul Verhoeven the director did not read the book so there is that problem

[@princeofparmma]

A comment for the algorithm. Always remember, attack from space is always appropriate. Air support is a must. Vehicles are faster than walking and disciplined fire beats charging forces.

[@enoughothis]

The lasgun of Warhammer 40k has proper optics, the Starship Troopers gun doesn't even have iron sights. The lasgun has uses power packs that can be recharged by sunlight, the heat of a fire (this will damage it) or by standard electrical charging. Bet the Mobile Infantry would have killed to have some of those.

[@andrewwoodhead3141]

Depends which ''Mobile Infantry'' you are referring to. The ''MI'' in the film are barely equipped to the level of a local Planetary Defence force 40K, never mind the Guard regiments. However, the ''MI'' in the book make 40K space marines look like Star Wars storm trooper.

[@Baconator5642]

@@andrewwoodhead3141 Stormtroopers in the original trilogy were always effective but in scenes with main charecters apparently they were given orders directly from palpatine to make it look like they were trying to kill them, not actually do it

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

@@andrewwoodhead3141 i wouldn't go that far but an MI Platoon at range would embarace Astartes in a fight.

[@andrewwoodhead3141]

@@ironstarofmordian7098 It'd be kinda like putting a guy in medieval armour equipped with a sword and a gyro jet ( I was going to say an old UZI, but lets stick with a gyro jet 😃) up against a modern SF operator equipped with a SCAR and as many javelin anti tank rockets as he needs.Also grenades. Also , our SF guy has enhanced thermal imaging ,... I mean , sure , our knight in shinning armour might, conceivably , get up close and personal, sure, ...but it ain't gonna happen. Still, maybe you have a point ,.. comparing them to Star Wars stormtroopers was bit harsh,..😀 I mean , the Mi didn't really operate in platoon sized formations . A couple of squads would take out a whole planet. They stay coordinated and in contact but they mostly engaged as single units, taking out anything that might potentially slow them up with high yield , shoulder mounted nuclear weapons,... kinda brutal. They moved around the battlefield by jumping kilometres in the air and taking stuff out on the way down. The space marines drive around in tanks , FFS ! I was reading a book recently where a primaris marine was struggling to cross a river. He got stuck at the bottom and had to get all but towed out by a dreadnought before his suit overheated. I mean , who are these jokers ? 😀

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

@@andrewwoodhead3141 indeed. Gyro jet bois aren't storm troopers. But theyd get clowned like them by the Cap Troopers. Platoons did operste as one solid element. They just cover more ground than a real life one. In the real world, a squad on patrol os dosper with 10 meters between each soldier and 20 between each fire team. 100 years ago, an equivalent force of men would be much closer. Doctrine and technology have made more open orders not only possible but mandatory.

[@Lonovavir]

That moment when you realize that trucks and 50 caliber machine guns used in WW 2 are more advanced than a sci fi military.

[@mattstakeontheancients7594]

Basically the director took a book and made a parody of it including the incompetent military and government. Anything in the book that made sense militarily or scientific were removed. Also when in doubt Exterminatus.

[@CharliMorganMusic]

"Since it is the far future, why don't they create armor such as this?" They did. In the book. Literally the first use of power armor in fiction. These fill the same role as AFVs, too.

[@thodan467]

that was AFAIK b EE Smith in the Lensman saga

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

First, another cracking video from Whatifalthist and then a fresh analysis video from our glorious emperor. Truly a wonderful Saturday morning.

[@empurress77]

I feel i must point out that the director disrespected the source material in the extreme. While the director/Wrighters of the script may have followed the story a little, they completely disregarded the troopers and how they were equipped. In the original story the troopers were essentially one person armies. Mechs. POWERED armor. The troopers WERE tanks. Better than tanks. If the equipment were properly taken into account, then the tactics (in the on-surface battles) would make more sense at least in regard to the troopers being literal tanks. Not utilizing bombardment though???! Now that's a huge blunder.

[@skyhawk554]

Don't forget the jump jets. These guys were fast and agile enough to keep with gun ships and carried a payload that was only a little light for the gunship. The power armor is what makes them the mobile infantry.

[@empurress77]

@@skyhawk554 Right?! I so totally remember the jump jets i forgot to mention them cause DUH! Thanx for tellin me i omitted that obvious part. The jump jets were definitely one on the main capabilities of the "Powered armor".

[@eric4x4]

From the book: "A suit isn’t a space suit - although it can serve as one. It is not primarily armor - although the Knights of the Round Table were not armored as well as we are. It isn’t a tank - but a single M. I. private could take on a squadron of those things and knock them off unassisted if anybody was silly enough to put tanks against M. I. A suit is not a ship but it can fly, a little on the other hand neither spaceships nor atmosphere craft can fight against a man in a suit except by saturation bombing of the area he is in (like burning down a house to get one flea!). Contrariwise we can do many things that no ship - air, submersible, or space - can do."

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

Intentionally disrespected it

[@JonathanSchattke]

In the book, they used orbital bombardment, and even had "planet busters"

[@shanewoody1424]

I've served in the US Army for over 10 years, if we had the medical advances available in this story I would condone Career Sergeant Zim's harsh training techniques. For the single fact that war is barbaric and people will die and every fresh recruit needs to know the stakes of their chosen career and the severe importance of their training.

[@olivedrabwool]

In the movie, it's implied that if you join the Mobile Infantry, you are going to die. Even when they weren't at war with the Arachnids. It stands to reason that they're going to treat their soldiers like crap, especially if, like you said, they can easily fix any physical damage that doesn't kill the MI trooper.

[@shanewoody1424]

@@olivedrabwool just because a conflict has a high death toll does not equate poor treatment of subordinates within the actual fighting force. LT Ratzak even says something to this degree "I expect the best and I give the best." This is quite in line with Sun Tzu's teaching that if you treat your soldiers like your own sons they fight hard for you. Thanks for the follow up comment, I appreciate the discourse.

[@olivedrabwool]

@@shanewoody1424 no, I mean like in Basic Training. They're given way more leniency after graduating from training as we see in the movie. The poor treatment of MI troopers wouldn't come until the later (and much worse) direct to video sequels.

[@shanewoody1424]

@@olivedrabwool ssshhhh we don't talk about those

[@marley7868]

I wouldn't granted his treatment is fine for the mi's needs and culture but your trainer breaking your arm is a good way to lose respect and generally do the opposite of what us military trainers are supposed to do hence why them touching you is considered unacceptable in the marines that said arm breaking and getting hurt like that to help ease you in hell yeah that would be useful just the delivery needs to be better considered

[@zerptwerp6445]

4:56 This would be a good critique if this were normal military training. However, this society is a post scarcity economy. The purpose of service is to earn Citizenship. In this fictional universe, Civilians live free, safe, and prosperous lives, but the right to vote and hold office is reserved for those who have obtained Citizenship. Military service in this world is meant to be inconvenient and terribly difficult. Military service as a means to defend the body politic is irrelevant, because the body politic has no great enemies. The Federation is a completely dominating world power. It isn't until THE BUGS attack that the military is necessary. This is exactly why they were so inept upon first conflict with the bugs. Their training was meant to make becoming a Citizen difficult, and it was not meant to teach soldiers how to be effective.

[@LordKryos]

Also I think in the book it’s mentioned there are more ways than the military to gain citizenship. I think nearly any type of service can get you citizenship including firefighting and being a doctor/nurse.

[@macmcleod1188]

@@LordKryos yes and it explicitly says they make the non military service hard and miserable too so citizenship will be valued. And if the person is disabled, the government will find or make a way for them to serve.

[@RobRowBoat]

@@macmcleod1188 Even citizen's with disabilities as a result of service, in the book and movie if I remember correctly(been more than a decade)the man they speak to when enlisting in their specified military branch was selected specifically or did he volunteer because he suffered horrible wounds kind of as a last ditch effort to weed out people looking to join up so they know the consequences they may face in pursuit of citizenship "mobile infantry made me the man I am" good point's about non military service too

[@JavierJavierJavierJavier]

​@@RobRowBoat In the books they mention that as long as you are mentally competent enough to understand the oath the government has to find something for you to do even if you are completely crippled. Additionally if memory serves correct the character that has lost several limbs during his service uses fully functional prosthetics outside of business hours. So in other words part of his job is to be a visible reminder of how much service is likely to suck but at the end of the day he sticks his legs back on and goes home

[@cp1cupcake]

@@JavierJavierJavierJavier Yeah, they mention that, if nothing else, human guinea pig is an option you can have to serve.

[@ManicPandaz]

In the book the troopers do wear powered exo suits. Though it makes sense in the movie that the humans doesn’t have powered armour, as that goes along with the dispensable foot soldiers theme for the humans and the bugs.

[@dogebanzai456]

also, they aren't bugs and are much more terrifying.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

ROUGHNECK CHRONICLES and the animated CDI movies do some justice to the version of the MI without the canon book power armor.

[@michaelmetzger7198]

I was told that the director was told "you can have the bugs, or the power armor, not both."

[@ch09pa]

All through this I was screaming in my head "yeah, but in the book.." Each time I had to stop and remind myself that this is about the film exclusively, not the book it's inspired by. Great analysis of a great film.

[@KevDaly]

Reinforcing the training question, my great uncle was court-martialled during WWI for getting in a fight in which his thumb was broken, since that temporarily impaired his ability to shoot people and thereby pissed off his superiors quite a lot.

[@johnhannibal5108]

When the one trooper gets shot in the head, they act like the armour would protect them. In the book, the armour does. It makes humans equal to the bugs in hand to hand, as opposed to having to get to point blank and fire like mad It's been a while, but IIRC, soldiers were encourage to sleep around in their units

[@42billybob]

Funny thing is, in the novel the mobile infantry are called the "mobile" infantry because they have space marine jump jet suits that make them look like armored gorillas that allow them to carry firepower on par with your average modern tank. And despite this, the navy still questions "what even is the point of you guys?" because nuking everything from orbit is so much more obviously effective. Plus the arachnid soldiers carey beam rifle guns that can slice these suits in half and have a navy that outguns the human fleet in the books. The answer to their utility question is "you can't hold ground, rescue hostages, or kidnap enemy leaders with orbital bombardment." Klendathu fails miserably in the books because they can't penetrate the tunnel network, they underestimate the hivemind cohesion of the arachnids, and the infantry can't differentiate between worker drones & soldiers and wastes most of their ammo. They did have a plan to hit their manufacturing and take out their leaders... they just never got close to it. The brutality of boot camp actually has a reason in the books too. They don't actually need the number of soldiers that apply. Their bottleneck on how many troops they can mobilize is their manufacturing of the suits, not the number of volunteers. Plus they aren't at war at that point and don't need soldiers anyway. But the "service guarantees citizenship" thing means the trainees have a constitutional right to be there until they drop out of their own accord. And it's a waste money, time, resources & manpower training soldiers they don't need, so they do their best to make the experience as miserable as possible so people decide "voting franchise isn't worth this" and wash out. Plus as they discuss in their ethics & moral philosophy class (something they're obligated to take in high school but aren't required to pass) suffering & putting yourself at risk to earn your vote is an essential part of how their society is built. The movie kinda skips over all of that and starts with "mandatory military service = jingoistic fascism" and built the rest of the symbolism from there. The military incompetence & meat grinder strategies, the over the top WW1 & 2 style propaganda ads & possible conspiracy to 9/11 themselves to create a Casus Belli is all deliberate in the film because the point is "military industrial complex bad."

[@doktor_ghul]

Based on the interviews with Verhoeven and the rest of the production of ST ( mostly in CINEFANTASTIQUE ) , they simply did not have the budget to produce the bugs, the ships, AND the power armor. If they did a far more accurate version of STARSHIP TROOPERS with the effects and production ability we have today, the book would transfer word for word to the screen, and it would be far better than Paul's struggling attempt. Heinlein's work is only vaguely presented in the movie. The mobile infantry's catch phrase " ON THE BOUNCE ", referring to the tank-like leaping soldiers firing in lines over each other, and shooting at the top of the leap in unison, could be a terrifying thing to see, and the bugs wouldn't stand a chance.

[@filipeamaral216]

Lt-Cel Michel Goya, of the French Army, made a four-part commentary on the tactics in the book Starship Troopers. Worth taking a look.

[@ironstarofmordian7098]

Got a link?

[@ricardoospina5970]

"Why didn't they just bomb them from orbit." Director "because that would be the end of the movie."

[@hariman7727]

Also the director: "LAWL! Military R Dumb und Henleen wrote der nazi with his anti nazi but nationalist book becuz I R SMRT!"

[@macmcleod1188]

It's apparently portrayed in one of the later movies or said in commentary on one of the DVDs that the guns don't fire physical bullets. "Bullets" are generated by the gun as it fires them as long as the weapon has energy. But the shotguns on the other hand are apparently physical Limited bullets. Which might explain the behavior we see in the movie. And they're the best weapons the Federation has when the war starts. For example the first ~1800 tanks produced during WWII were horrible. They were the best we had at the time. As the movies go on the Weaponry improves culminating in the armored suits from the books. Women are fighting effectively alongside men in Ukraine. Since they are not lugging 70 pound packs the challenge is even lower.

[@JinKee]

i guess the mobile infantry rifles also generate spent cases for as long as the weapon has energy.

[@alexvermaak1759]

The vast majority of women left Ukraine, they are mostly being photographed for propaganda purposes. Most women that joined volunteer battalions were moved to medical, I have quite a few friends there at the moment and they say its all men with them. This is a propaganda war first and foremost, they want to appeal to westerners and know some trendy modern westerner is much more likely to vocally and financially support a propogandistic, idealistic construction of some strong independent teenaged girl who has singlehandedly destroyed hundreds of Russian tanks and perfectly fulfills their marvel movie fantasies than the reality of mostly 20-60 year old, tired, worn, highly nationalistic men who would be deemed as having "toxic masculinity" in their countries slowly but successfully fighting back the Russians at great loss. Western media is just as (likely more if we are honest) propogandistic as that of the east, they just use different methods. The media may not be making it look as such but Ukraine is an absolute human meatgrinder right now, estimated losses at the moment are 10,000 Russians and 15,000 Ukrainians killed, with around 30,000 wounded on each side and that isn't counting civilians, those numbers were after just a month of fighting, for reference America lost 2000 men in the 20 year war in Afghanistan, you lost 2500 on D Day and 3000 in 9/11, that is more than 1 9/11 every single week of just Ukrainian soldiers for the month of fighting. This isn't some little marvel movie fantasy.

[@illuminaticomfirmed6948]

The Vast majority of forces in Ukraine are men, thats the sex Zelensky conscripted from ages 18-60, and quite frankly the Ukrainians are almost out everything except man power which is their only advantage. So yeah thats what they are going to lean into the most.

[@alexvermaak1759]

@@illuminaticomfirmed6948 your comment got deleted but I can see it if I select it, I think you're shadowbanned. Can you see my long one about casualties in Ukraine?

[@illuminaticomfirmed6948]

@@alexvermaak1759 no

[@brasstonberry3266]

In 40K Imperium does know how kill it's enemies, sometimes Exterminatus is first move. Imperium has fight against xenos fot thousands of years. Even nids (Tyranids) that are newcomer, Imperium did adapt. Exterminatus was use that much, that even Imperium started to hesitate when hundreds of worlds were destoyed to deny Tyranids biomass they use.

[@enoughothis]

Kryptman was a little too extreme for even the Imperial Inquisition, just let that sink in. People who would and do slaughter entire populations 'just to be sure' couldn't stomach what he did.

[@Worshiper_of_Blakes_word]

Novel starship trooper's mobile infantry would beat the living shit out of the space marines. From what I remember from the book, the mobile infantry were about to be replaced due to ships using planet-destroying bombs becoming common.

[@Founder6087]

Typical 'exterminatus lol' fallback reply, that isn't quite how it goes in lore. Exterminatus is a last resort

[@Worshiper_of_Blakes_word]

@@Founder6087 40K fan moment

[@Founder6087]

@@Worshiper_of_Blakes_word Perhaaaaps. Though i am not invested in 40K or their games. I know just enough to understand exterminatus is not an instant go to

[@widgren87]

I honestly always thought that the Roughnecks first mission on Planet P was to secure/clear a specified sector and were then re-assigned to outpost. Also the first tunnel into the outpost was closed via explosives so the Arachnids had to dig a new one. Then again I also had the impression that the Federation had not been in complete power for all that long and were still fighting smaller rebellions and so on. Then again looking to deep into a satire can give you a headache ;-) I'll take the Imperial Wall of Guns instead.

[@JonathanSchattke]

In the book, it was NOT the first mission, by a long shot. Their first missions against bugs were to free the Skinnies from bug nests on skinny planets.

[@hariman7727]

Please don't insult good satire by calling this movie satire of the book that it stole the title from. This movie is a satire of bad recruitment videos for the military and of Hollywood soldiers who are too dumb to live because the writers say so.

[@widgren87]

@@JonathanSchattke Well I haven't read the book just seen the live action movies, how I managed to sit through the "sequels" I still can't understand, and so my impression is based solely on the movie.

[@widgren87]

@@hariman7727 Eh, they could have named this movie "Bug Wars, the clusterfuck" and my point would still stand, if poorly put as it appears. Some things just gives you a head ache if you think to hard on them where as this movie is pretty the perfect "shut my brain off and enjoy the silliness for 2 hours" kind for me.

[@davidmccormick7419]

@@widgren87 please for the love of god read the book. its a couple of bucks on amazon and only takes a few hours to read, but is some of the best si-fi ever. All the "plot holes" from the movie are strictly in the movie.

[@macmcleod1188]

Got to agree on the maze training. Also when he said cover me, she didn't cover him, instead she went on the attack. Covering him would have been sitting behind the corner laying down suppressing fire. I basically put that on the director who apparently had no clue what the term covering fire means.

[@icecold9511]

No to mention the reaming you'd get trying to use two rifles that way.

[@theaxgame]

At 21:36, behind the Mobile Inf. There are plasma balls shooting up from the surface at an extremely close range, probably less than 300 meters (or the accurate range of most military standard-issue rifles). Why was there no SEAD or DEAD missions when your landing zone is ACTIVELY OCCUPIED by Air Defenses? Even if they are underground launching from some sort of "silo" you could still blanket the area in a suppressive barrage to prevent them from firing (kind of like automatic weapon suppressive fire against far away targets). Also I noted the complete lack of use of the drop ships, which simply stayed put with the landing pods, rather than use the visible guns as Air Support. I don't understand the complete lack of crew served weapons either, since I think those are in the book (if I remember correctly, and also the Federation was portrayed as far more competent and wise with its resources) and would be of great help against an enemy possessing no ranged capacity beyond heavy artillery, and whose only tactic is a massive wave assault over open ground, which does not utilize cover or support from said artillery. I'm not sure what went on here but these ideas do confuse me as to why they would possibly exist or be continued throughout the countless cycles of plans and training. Great analysis, thank you.

[@bosanski_Cevap]

Landing zone actively occupied and no air support? Hmmm where did I hear that? Oh yes! Hostomel Airport, Ukraine 2022

[@theaxgame]

@@bosanski_Cevap they at least had their helicopters there, and a missile attack on the base prior. The difference between the Ukrainians and the Arachnids is that the Ukrainians capitalized on the lack of support for the Russians. The Arachnids simply slaughtered the Mobile Inf and let it be.

[@bosanski_Cevap]

@@theaxgame fair point. To be fair, soldiers are a joke in this movie Realistically they would just bombard the shit out of this planet and use chemical and biological warfre to comit a big genocide

[@thechroniclegamer4285]

From the looks of it the drop ships were also firing chaff

[@theaxgame]

@@thechroniclegamer4285 Those look like chaff from the top but the way they are placed leads me to believe they are landing illumination flares. They fire up and to the front, which, on a slow, bulky dropship, you wouldn't want as a missile-countermeasure because it may actually divert the missile, but it will divert the missile to directly in front of or above the dropship, potentially causing the missile to hit the ship anyway. If they are flares, it would make sense to have it fire that way as your troops are going to be going out the front and having a flare directly above them would provide light and also, unexpectedly, a moving silhouette of every target (who, we've established does not use cover in the first place, much less to hide from flares) in the AO.

[@thechroniclegamer4285]

The rifles seem to be like the Famas guns (dunno what type they are) but the extended barrel suggests it’s a long range rifle that can also be used as a close range, which means they could’ve used the range to their advantage

[@commonman4413]

Typical Hollywood use us to take an existing weapon, slap on "cool" looking cosmetics to make a futuristic gun. Look how huge they are compared to modern firearms. A current day M4 is lighter and more compact than earlier weapons, not bigger. If all the extra crap on it was useful that would be one thing, but all it would do is make the weapon heavier and unwieldy. You see some have a huge flashlight on the top. What the hell is that monster fir?

[@Riceball01]

Frrom what I recall, they used Nini-14s covered by a shell., at least that's what they did in real life. What they were supposed to b in universe , who knows. But even at long range they wouldn't work well because it take an entire magazine from at least a firetem to take down just one bug. And at long range, against a moving target, they're not way you're going to be able to pump enough rounds accurately enough to take down a bug before it's on top of you and you're back to doing full auto mag dumps.

[@thechroniclegamer4285]

@@Riceball01 ah

[@TheMylittletony]

Looks like it was based on the L85 with some G36 added in. it's supposed to fire 7.62 nato.

[@ntfoperative9432]

@@Riceball01 actually, in the movie (which, I may add, makes the weapons design even dumber), it's shown that a controlled three round burst to the place where the eye is, will quickly put down a bug.

[@marley7868]

I would agree with alot of your take on the drill instructor the mobile infantry wants insane people hence the assault meanwhile the medics take damn near zero time to fix someone hence I believe that guy whose arm he broke was completely fine by lunch and didn't care the sling he was in didn't seem to inhibit movement so I'd argue it's less he's a bad drill instructor (I'd argue he's very nice given his help with rico) and more this military wants people who literally don't care about getting there asses kicked which given the federations culture and population size (several planets worth) not hard to think they can afford to be picky with the MI edit: if I remember correctly me and my friends decided yeah it was a freak meteor that the feds couldn't stop but then blamed on the bugs to help the colonists who were getting slaughtered by them (the colonists being human but non federation associated)

[@kirgan1000]

LOL how the book and the movie differ. In the book a grope of Mormons want to leave the frederation, and colonize "unknown space" agenst the will of frederation. But the frederation do not think they they have the moral rights to use force to stop sombady who voluntarily want to leave the frederation. The Mormons unknowing colonize a bug planet in bug space, and widout warning, the bugs massacres the colony, and start to bombard Earth with asteroids, and the war is on.

[@bebberonibizza]

@@kirgan1000 pretty sure that happens in the movie too

[@averybaumann]

Starship troopers was the first book to feature powered armor, held in had his name pulled from the film for the way the military was featured in the movie. However the book also talks about how much the government tried to discourage people to join government service until after they started fighting the bugs. .much was made about quality vs quantity, and could humanity afford to exchange any number of powered armor for entire populations of bugs. A later film has some politicians allow the bugs to invade mars as a power grab to topple the ruling party

[@cp1cupcake]

Also, much of government service was non-military. Each branch has standards on what they will take and the government has a requirement to find a job for anyone who applies (unless there is something like they are too stupid or psychotic to understand the oath), even if they are so incompetent or disabled that the only possible function they can serve is as a test subject. When Rico applies, he is makes a list of jobs which he wants. He only gets into MI because each of the positions he ranked higher were ones he was unqualified for.

[@derdingsreturnsnochmal5177]

15:26 They showed Klendathu to be on the other side of the galaxy. That's a distance of several tens of thousands of light years. Unless bug plasma SOMEHOW manages to accelerate at many times the speed of light (which it certainly doesn't look like in the movie) and the bugs are capable of planning a route for the asteroid that avoids collision with any other objects along the way AND still perfectly pinpoints an object, they can only see with a delay of several tens of thousands of years, I don't see that happening either. You're right that's definitely a set-up.

[@g00gleisgayerthanaids56]

Or more likely it is just a giant plot hole borne of veerhovens incompetence.

[@cp1cupcake]

Or the asteroid was not send from Klendathu. While most big cities have military bases in them, I think they generally are NOT where strategic weapons are stored. The film does absolutely nothing with regards to the bugs' technology even how they get from one place to another.

[@brokefangmagepunk3685]

The bugs are a space faring race that have colonised many planets and they knew the location of earth from brain sucking the Mormon settlers, add in the fact the bugs have a telepathic connection it is possible they could hit an asteroid in orbit around klendathu and as it passed by other bug planets or outposts more perfectly timed volleys of plasma repeatedly hitting it would greatly increase its acceleration. The plasma rips right through human ships so we know that each blast holds an insane amount of energy

[@methospayne4735]

And if it took tens of thousands of years they launched it at what would have been a sparsely populated planet with no technology at all

[@davidgruzin8269]

@@brokefangmagepunk3685 That makes no sense, even if they knew where earth was, their plasma is incapable of propeling anything. It would just start melting the asteroids and completely disintegrate them.

[@InquisitorShepard]

15:14 that isn't a pet theory. That is common sense. Klendathu is seen at the opposite of the galactic disc. We are roughly 20KLy from the center of the galaxy, Klendathu seeming equidistant would be about 40KLy away. That is 40,000 light years away. That is 40,000 years spend travelling at the speed of light. Any asteroid going at this speed would do a hell of a lot more damage than the ones usually encountered (20,000-30,000m/s). I can't do the math right now but it would be bigger than every single bombs we ever built blown at once, including the nuclear and thermobaric and would cause an global extinction event. Not only that but the bugs would've needed to send it *over* 40,000 years ago, possibly millions or hundreds of millions and with extreme precision they have never shown when firing them plasma balls. Occam's Razor. The Feds pulled an asteroid from the belt and made it crash on Buenos Aires. Now, which one seem the less farfetched.

[@MrEd8846]

The part of training and injuring your recruits. You got to remember this is the starship troopers universe. Always hate to bring the book and the movie into the same conversation but some parts of the book still apply. Such as punishment and pain so you don't forget the lessons you are supposed to learn. The book explains it through dog training. You aren't going to question the importance of a knife when one gets thrown through your hand. You will remember his words and the pain that was caused through your bickering about even needing a knife. Same with Rico being punished. You can jail him but eventually he might forget that he got jailed, he will be no use for society for years, and he might turn resentful and hate into a life of crime. But give him a few minutes of pain and he will remember forever that his actions got a man killed.

[@davidmccormick7419]

yep, a quick sentence and quicker punishment that will be forgotten by everyone but the man that it happens to, without causing any more suffering than necessary. its far more humane and cheaper than solitary confinement that will destroy an otherwise useful person forever.

[@JinKee]

2:50 “Klendathu” is the Skinny’s name for the bug homeworld. we’d ask them what it meant but we shot them all.

[@icecold9511]

"What if there is no sun?" Then their cold weather gear was significantly inadequate to the environment. Maybe that is why they showered together? Get that hot blood pumping.

[@captainteutonica5474]

9:15 I love how you even show an image of the standard Mobile Infantry, Powered Combat Armor there. As it's been depicted in other starship troopers films. Love your work, hail Caesar Augustus Penguinus!

[@Blackjack1414]

In the later movies, they actually show the federation doing something similar when they let a bug nest grow on Mars because Mars wanted independence, and they acted like they didn't know about it when the bugs surfaced and tote Mars up.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

Lilo and Stitch’s aliens would be more effective at killing the Arachnids. “We have to gas the planet.”

[@jacobktan]

In the book the humans get the location of the Arachnid home planet from other aliens so it's plausible it's their name for it.

[@leeboy26]

2:35- I love how the bugs are the biggest and most imminent threat to humanity... and they are literally the other side of the galaxy. Makes you think just how much of the galaxy they inhabit.

[@drake919]

This always bothered me. You know what's super effective against giant heavily armored bugs? Gas and aerosol chemicals. You know what's not super effective against giant heavily armored bugs? Bullets.

[@Will-tn8kq]

You kept harping on how injury the recruits reduced the training time, but the movie show that all those guys wet healed the same day using some kind of high tech stuff. It was explained in universe that injuring them horribly did not keep them out of commission long.

[@hendrsb33]

That's the thing that always bothered me about the bootcamp training in STARSHIP TROOPERS... the troopers were trained to fight against humans with human reflexes and tactics which meant they were wholly unprepared and slaughtered when they meet the bugs in battle.

[@marley7868]

because they didn't expect a war with the bugs

[@PercyMCGaming]

I reason that they might not want to destroy the planets is because it seems that they can support human life. This is rare in space so having another whole planet for human population is useful.

[@Tarumarugan]

I always liked starship troopers. When I was a kid it satisfied my alien action movie appetite and as I got older the satirical tones of the movie made me appreciate it even more. I’d like to see more of it in the future

[@g00gleisgayerthanaids56]

Read the book

[@fan9775]

@@g00gleisgayerthanaids56 Meh

[@g00gleisgayerthanaids56]

@@fan9775 you cant just "meh" at one of if not the greatest sci fi novel of all time...

[@davidgruzin8269]

@@g00gleisgayerthanaids56 Yes you can, keep your books. Some prefer movies.

[@g00gleisgayerthanaids56]

@@davidgruzin8269 you're missing out on the foundation for almost all science fiction works... just read the book, I guarantee you'll be a better person for it.

[@AlexanderWernerJr]

I would doubt that nuking the bug planet would be an effective strategy because the insectoids are shown to be able to lurk inside underground tunnels, which would make them a very hard target from orbit - unless of course they were dependent on an intact planet surface for their survival like hunting prey and such. But to me these creatures look like they don't need to dwell above ground at all if they don't want to, just like ants for example.

[@commonman4413]

We are almost there in the US military. In such a shower set up, trans people who have not transitioned would use the showers of ther preffered gender. So you can have both sets of genitalia present in a mass shower scenario. Also with homosexuals, you may be showering with people who could be sexually attracted to you. Maybe the general shower is just the natural evolution, since you can already shower with members with opposite biology as well as members that are attracted to you.

[@huntclanhunt9697]

Which is why Clinton's don't ask don't tell and the... Whatever... That Biden is doing are bad ideas.

[@icecold9511]

This Federation doesn't exactly sound like the understanding sort, and it is bound to lead to problems. Fun fact. I found the perfect method for getting a guy to put on a towel at work. I got really appreciative. 🥰

[@icecold9511]

Also, encouraging that sexual attitude....people in love and in battle....not a good idea for keeping them on mission.

[@rachelleintexas338]

The Infantry getting drunk as hell, getting tats, generally doing stupid shit, is the most accurate of any movie.

[@imperialnerd4662]

Love how many of the major issues you have are addressed by the book. A. they have power armor that makes the infantry insanely mobile and borderline replaces tanks and armored personal carriers (which they still use), and B. they don't just nuke bug worlds because Humans and Bugs are after the same planets for colonization

[@kingemperorpenguin1]

I am sure that it does but this is a military analysis of the film not the book.

[@hariman7727]

@@kingemperorpenguin1 >.> I'd love to hear your military analysis of the Starship Troopers book.

[@icecold9511]

Yeah, but you'd never even try to capture a homeworld like that intact. A colony with a limited population, sure. But even if you could take such a world more conventionally, you'd still do enough damage to render it worthless to you anyway. And if you didn't, they would. Think in terms of us. We would resort to extreme use of nuclear weapons to repell an invasion like that.

[@mavste5677]

A quick point: Klendathu is on the other side of the galaxy. In order for the bugs to have sent it, they would have had to knock it toward Earth before either of our species evolved. Depending on the asteroid's speed and considering general rotation of the galaxy and relative positions of the two planets, mammals wouldn't even have evolved yet and it's conceivable that it would have had to been sent before life appeared on Earth at all.

[@mavste5677]

Yes, I read the novel. This is a critique of the writing in the film.

[@Takao0815]

hope for a video on (apparently) capable military for example Gate: Jieitai Kano Chi nite, Kaku Tatakaeri

[@danielcardona2714]

Soooo if there are several planets of bugs and they’re presumably doing planet hopping because they’re all united, then how the hell did the bugs, who don’t seem to have a lot of technology, get to the other planets?

[@MogofWar]

2:40 -ish So Klendathu was apparent the name the Skinnies had given to the bugworld. They were an alien race in the book but the movies didn't seem to acknowledge their existence. 20:49 Okay but what of the warrior who knows his enemy but not himself?

[@Melanrick]

I think you missed the most important part of the live weapon trainings: They were not conducted on a safe space. They are in the middle of the fucking bootcamp with no walls to catch the bullets and people running around oblivious to the firing. This isnt even a firing range, is just a open box in the middle of the boot camp. Someone is bound to die. I would even vote that dozens of someone would be bound to die in live exercises.

[@Littleturtle144]

One thing I just noticed in the first few seconds. Lol if the new, upgraded defenses are supposed to be so good why are both the meteor and the missiles heading toward Earth?

[@SergeantPsycho]

The irony is that most of the issues brought up are addressed in the original novel this is based on. It's a great read if you haven't read it yet.

[@MonkeyKingsformerroomate]

It's worth mentioning, in the movie at least, they were attacked. Meaning all their training is geared toward fighting humans. Gear too. Which yeah, you're not wrong about equipment, but at least could explain why they were at first, not prepared at all. By around the 4th movie, they seem to have it mostly together. One small group can handle waves, and they finally start using power armor. I kinda thought that the bugs could rip through armored tanks. Since they can tunnel buildings. I suppose that's just my head canon though.

[@davidmccormick7419]

The bugs would decimate tanks. tanks are valuable in their ability to kill hard targets and provide covering fire for infantry but 3 machine-guns and a charge of canister every 6 seconds is not going to stop a horde of bugs that can eat your armor for breakfast. An AA gun with 1000 round belts of 20mm might have a chance to slow them down though, if they dont get tunneled under first.

[@MonkeyKingsformerroomate]

@@davidmccormick7419 They don't seem to have many flight bugs. So air defense, if they must be on the planet seems like a viable option. Really though.....exterminatus.

[@davidmccormick7419]

@@MonkeyKingsformerroomate planet crackers are the way. just mind (and mine) the asteroid field.

[@psyOmicron]

Nah, let's be real. The only reason why 40k has tanks cuz the commissar wants to hit something with his sword

[@enezjaniw493]

A little support for your pet theory. How long ago (years, centuries) would the bugs have had to have sent the asteroid? By the map it looks like a massive distance. And I remember the school scene in the film it was suggested the bugs don't use ships, so presumably no ftl for them.

[@sergeantsharkseant]

The Milky Way is 105,700 light years a single light years is about 9000000000000km so yeah they would have needed to send the asteroid before earth even existed

[@omegon2540]

Never thought of anyone analysing this films tactics but I’m glad that it happened Thank u

[@nathanthiessen3557]

One thing I always got a kick out of during the training with live fire, is their course is in the middle of the camp. Any bad shot or ricochet and they could be hitting other random recruits.

[@GOODYGOODGOOD789]

12:01 Rape and what you brought up about romantic relationships in the military, could both certainly go wrong here.

[@Fenris77]

15:27 Indeed as the speed at which the asteroid is moving the Arachnids must have launched it like a billion years ago...

[@Yaponnk]

"Bomb, land, fortify" You made quite a innovative and shrewd battleplan.

[@SherlockHolmes000]

On the subject of relationships in the military, there are examples in history of such things actually aiding the combative capability of units, rather than detracting. I could see various issues arising from this, but at the same time 'long distance' military relationships that you see today are extremely stress inducing, and arguably more psychologically damaging than those that could be made on the front line. Take the Sacred Band of Thebes, for example. The Roman Legions, while they did not have such attachments, and it was not allowed for a Legionary to be married during his service, they did have their fair share of 'stress relief' through sexual adventurism with slaves, captives, what have you. My main concern with mixed units would be pregnancies and whether the female soldiers could keep up with the male soldiers in the physical demands of war.

[@donovanteale6502]

Getting dear johned is the most painful wound any soldier can take

[@chrisbeer5685]

The Thebans had an elite Unit of 300 Warriors who were 150 gay couples, called the Sacred Band. They wiped the floor with lots of other Units, even the famous Spartans.

[@SherlockHolmes000]

@@chrisbeer5685 Yes, it was the Sacred Band of Thebes, that I mentioned.

[@rhenvao2844]

30:59 The arachnids didn't use the tunnel because the Roughnecks bombed it. If you recall, when they find the General, there's a loud boom that follows. They were closing up the hole, necessitating the bugs assaulting the walls. They likely didn't have the time to dig a new hole under the base. It could have taken days to dig the first one. Plus, the bugs have the bodies spare. The Roughnecks only have so much ammunition.

[@Benjamin1986980]

I did hear one suggestion that would explain everything. it's possible that the mobile infantry hadn't actually had to fight anyone for a very very long time. something I can do to Russia in the Ukraine war, but more extreme. if everything had been based off ideas and fiction rather than actual history, they might have thought they were just all powerful and forgotten most of what we currently know about the military in order to focus more and more on filling political roles

[@RaptorTroll360]

A lot of Earth's current military forces haven't fought in some time but they don't use that as an excuse for incompetence, and Russians have had military conflicts before Ukraine, as recent as 2006 in Chechnya. Their fumbling is in no way related to some atrophy. Also in the other movies it is shown that the federation has been dealing with insurgents, possibly for quite a while, and their leadership is supposedly made of military personnel, the Federation itself having been founded by hard-core militaristic veterans.

[@putinpunhere]

@@RaptorTroll360 >Russians have had military conflicts before Ukraine, as recent as 2006 in Chechnya Why go back that far? They have quite fresh experience liquidating ISIL (and some others) in the nation that is infamous for being an easy bullying target for Turkey and Israel: Syria.

[@Benjamin1986980]

True, but if you have a military society with no actual combat or chance of combat against meaningful opposition for generations, that changes things completely. I think Russia is a good example because they have a strong military culture but bad command, supply, training, and organization, leading to a superficially strong but in reality second or third rate force. In fact, it's possible that the Federation deliberately hobbled their own forces with infighting, distrust of leadership, and emphasis on personal glory in order to reduce the possibility of a general leading a coup.

[@putinpunhere]

@@Benjamin1986980 blah blah blah blah real democracy is only when people I like win blah blah blah Try showing respect to "students and miners" next time there bud, God-willing you will for YOUR sake.

[@Benjamin1986980]

@@putinpunhere did you reply to the wrong post? Or are you trying to argue that the army that even our own intelligence said would steamroll Ukraine in 48 hours wasn't horrifically underperforming against a country a small fraction of its size?

[@macmcleod1188]

I think they may have landed Just Before Dawn. Intent was to land and then fight while the sun rose giving the maximum amount of daylight to establish a perimeter. As tvtropes puts it, "Dawn attacks are particularly popular in Real Life as well as fiction. It is generally assumed that surprise attacks are most likely to take place at dawn. This allows the attackers to move into place during the cover of the night, while using the first light of the morning to see well enough for the actual attack. There is also the hope that an attack just before or just at dawn will catch the enemy while most of them are still sleeping or just waking up, and are therefore not fully alert." Unfortunately by the time Dawn arrived, they had already lost a hundred thousand troops.

[@morriganmhor5078]

I wonder if this incompetence is also seen in the book and the film only emphasizes some agenda?

[@trava4156]

Damn, your channel is awesome. Well done sir!

[@mustavogaia2655]

16:35 - on Step 1, I always wonder why didnt they just push some of tha asteroids around the bugs planets as a orbital bombardment. The Federation seems to dominate space propulsion well enough to do it.

[@kirgan1000]

Becuse in the book they bombard the bug planets with nuclear weapon and scorch everything, and then send down the mobile infantery in power armor to clear out the last bugs that have survived in underground tunnels. Later they use nova bombs to destroy whole planet.

[@mustavogaia2655]

@@kirgan1000 Thanks. Never read the book, but it makes sense. The movie seeems to be a bad adaptation.

[@kirgan1000]

@@mustavogaia2655 Yes the book and the movie have only consept in common. The book is almost only about bootcamp and moral-philosophy, and have only a smale amount of actual combat. Most combat is how the potagonists squad trach a alien (not the bugs) town, in a show of force. The fight agenst the bugs can be summed up in, we nuked them, and if we find some bugs that survived, we nuked them to.

[@icecold9511]

@@kirgan1000 The truth is you would never try and take a homeworld intact. To quote Londo Milari "Any force attempting to invade Narn would up to its neck in blood, it's own." Especially one who's people aren't given to surrenders. You'd have to do exactly as the OP suggests. Yeah the bugs can physically survive underground. But not forever with a dead planet. And grab a big rock to Crack the mantle. I did exactly that in the end of a book about invading an AI race. Just to be sure, Crack that egg.

[@Kazen169]

one phrase for you when it comes to the MI "Fleet does the flying, MI does the dying" MI is meat for the grinder. 23:04 they get 'planet crackers' and marauder mobile suits in movie 3

[@greggreg2027]

You do understand that we are seeing bootcamp BEFORE the start of the FIRST alien war? All your point can be countered with a simple - yeah, they did all that by mid and end of the movie. Before all this these guys only were trained to kill humans, like rebels and terror groups. And its VERY expensive to refit a space army production line. Most of your "wisdoms" are followed up the sequels, showing how long it takes to get more effective strategies in play and how the bugs actually adapt to them and get more effective at fighting humans. For all the bombardments, the bugs have subterranean networks that require boots on the ground to clear out, followed by outright planet destroying bombs by the third film, made redundant by the fifth film.

[@DavidRJones82]

When you write an essay refuting your analysis of the training doctrine but it won’t allow you to post it because it’s too long.

[@hariman7727]

Edit: I really love hearing this movie's tactics and strategy get ripped apart. EndEdit The starship troopers movie is best summed up as Paul verhoven reading the first chapter or two of the book, deciding that it's too similar to the Nazis that his family suffered under in World war II (despite the fact that Heinlein wrote the novel as a counterpoint to Nazis as a way to keep the civic responsibility and nationalism needed to keep a country together without descending into fascism), upon which palverhoven tosses the book against the wall and then writes a spoof of bad military recruitment videos instead of an actual movie of the book. The movie has zero tactics and strategy beyond Mass charges and the occasional nuke. The movie completely ignores the power armor that was Central to the mobile infantry and gave them both their mobility and made each trooper equivalent to a full squad of soldiers crossed with a tank. Even worse the moral lessons of the book which took multiple chapters and were pivotal points for Johnny Rico's career and mindset were not only ignored but also completely inverted in the movie. The trial of the murderer / rapist that is instantly guilty has a full chapter of discussion between Johnny Rico and one of his squad mates. The colonel of Johnny Rico's unit and the teacher are two different people. Johnny Rico doesn't almost quit the infantry, he considers it and then decides to stay on after he realizes that he's past the point where he wants to quit already. About the one thing that the entire movie gets right is the fact that the first assault on Klendathu is a complete mess and gets a ton of soldiers killed for nothing good. It's an awful movie with non-existent tactics, and you point out the second half of that very well in this video.

[@icecold9511]

In the book trials were treated rationally. They just didn't let you sit forever on death row.

[@FiliusFidelis]

About Bootcamp, in the defense of the Federation they were not actually at war with the bugs at that point in time which is why they were not training in ways to fight them.

[@johnbrinker2559]

The ancient Greek city of Thebes had unit of homosexual lovers as elite warriors. Called the Theban Sacred Band. They did reasonably well, but had trouble retreating.

[@jehova131]

9:15 I love how you put the actual mobile infantry armor from the animated movies in the top left of the screen.

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

Ok for real this is a golden example of when the book was better than the movie. The book wasn’t perfect but it was better than this.

[@VenomSnake420]

how

[@CanadianF.B.I]

The movie was fine

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

Venom Monke: the book was a thoughtful and interesting look into the citizens duty to the state and the people. I think the solution heinlein proposes in the novel would not work out as well as he thought, but the questions raised by the novel are compelling in their own right. And, the movie is dumb in comparison, mostly because it settles for a “fascism is bad” message. It’s one i agree with, but it’s hardly a brave or interesting stance nowadays.

[@TitusCastiglione1503]

@@CanadianF.B.I it’s fine as satire… sort of. It’s just that it was clearly made by a director who didn’t read the source material and also probably hated it for spurious reasons.

[@mivapusa]

Immediately after the dude got shot at 06:41, I got an advertisement singing "That's liiiife"

[@TheMajorActual]

When the directorial staff of the film are such deranged "sectual" libertines that they see every single person wearing any uniform of any kind as a "not-see", and who dutifully believe that the author of the source material was a "fashionist", even though he demonstrably was not, you really don't have a right to be surprised when they use said source material to generate a film that should have been titled _"Sieg Heil Doogie,"_ complete with the concomitant incompetence of their inspirational progenitors and copious amounts of soft-core. I'm sure Jodorowsky was proud.

[@g00gleisgayerthanaids56]

Before veerhoven co opted the starship troopers title the movies working title was just, "bug hunt." I move to petition we retitle the movie with its working title. The movie is bug hunt to me.

[@Fatherofheroesandheroines]

Did you just skim through a Thesaurus to find cool fifty dollars words before writing this comment?

[@TheMajorActual]

@@Fatherofheroesandheroines No. I hace an actual education.

[@Fatherofheroesandheroines]

@@TheMajorActual did you? I think you " hace" to use spell check next time lol.

[@TheMajorActual]

@@Fatherofheroesandheroines It's one of the downfalls of using a "smartphone". At least I don't type something like "r u srs", like some people.

[@gremmklaw]

I like how the poster t=shows all the main characters smiling or looking badass. Then Zander is down in the corner getting his brain sucked out...

[@LiamBar2010]

Penguin has a warped view of serving in mixed units; most people are too busy doing their job to think about bumping uglies. People hook up and dramas ensue, sure, but it's rare. Can't speak for all militaries, but as for ours, the standards haven't been dropped for females wanting to serve as front line soldiers - everyone has to reach the same bar.

[@fernthefig1889]

"Why don't they create armor such as this?" Author of the original story in his grave: "THEY DID!!"

[@thetruegoldenknight]

I am honestly attracted to a straight female in a combat role...though that may be more a personal taste matter. I was never arguing whether or not it's practical, just that it's something I enjoy as a matter of opinion. (As seen in my Hero Team stories, for example.)

[@idiotengineer3925]

I was infantry and we had female attachments... dizzy is literally the hottest girl, most are gross lol

[@IronWarhorsesFun]

ask the 300+ Nazi vitims of a certain Angel of Death from the soviet union in WW2. Or the countless nights of no sleep that the Night Witches provided.

[@thetruegoldenknight]

@@IronWarhorsesFun Angel of Death...that's Josef Mengele (I know you said Soviet, but guess they didn't teach that variant in history class). But that's beside the point. My point is, I like a tough girl.

[@wolvenkitsune9198]

With the point at the outpost, the hole in the mess tent is closed off screen, one of the troopers is ordered to close it and we hear the explosion in a later scene

[@clydemarshall8095]

I understand your reasons for not doing it, but I still wanted to express my sincere interest in a video essay on why women should not be employed in combat roles. I think that it would be a great help to many to have a lot of evidence collated in one place and would at least be entertaining to me. Thanks for all you do KEP. Have a nice day.

[@donovanteale6502]

Anyone who thinks women dont make good soldiers is a fool. Tell me more about how civilian you are ffs

[@clydemarshall8095]

@@donovanteale6502 Anyone who thinks that women can compete with men physically is the greater fool.

[@donovanteale6502]

@@clydemarshall8095 We hardly live in a world where you box the enemy to death or hit them with a sword. You have the mindset of most civilian teenage boys. Modern war is so tech heavy that for much of it, merely being motivated to kill is all that is needed. In kosovo female snipers were feared for their ability to maintain their grudge. I have worked with many female soldiers who were the equal or better than the average man. If you cant employ the resources you have efficiently thats the sign of incompetence on the battlefield, not a legit evaluation of the resources themselves.

[@clydemarshall8095]

@@donovanteale6502 It is an objective fact that women in general cannot outperform men physically. It is also an objective fact that boots on the ground are needed to win wars and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Outliers do not disprove general rules. Far more goes into warfighting than the motivation to kill. Firefights, maneuvering, long marches, and more are all incredibly demanding on the body. Men are physiologically more well suited to this. Just because we fight at longer ranges doesn’t mean the task isn’t physically taxing. Such a proposition is lunacy. I’m not even saying there is no place for women in the military. But they should not be employed as general combatants with the possible exception of aviators. You imagine me to be some civilian teenager, yet you are the one making fallacious claims about how war is waged that displays both practical and historical ignorance. The irony is that I am neither a teenager nor a civilian.

[@clydemarshall8095]

@@donovanteale6502 part of effective use of resources is knowing not to try and fit a square peg in a round hole.

[@Cliperclaper]

This guy would love Starship Trooper: Terran Command, all of his points are basically covered by that game

[@donovanteale6502]

Anyone who thinks women dont make good soldiers has never served. Way to incel a starship troopers video.

[@Sebomai-b8i]

Lmao, ok POG.

[@donovanteale6502]

@@Sebomai-b8i Infantry here, the water bottle repair unit it over there champ

[@Sebomai-b8i]

@@donovanteale6502 sure thing buddy, that's very believable.

[@donovanteale6502]

@@Sebomai-b8i more believable than you getting into a meaningful relationship bud

[@donovanteale6502]

@@SenatorMorbstrong please enlighten us all on the finer details with your years of experience. or dont.

[@airsoftgunswithclassicalmu8393]

Finally, another StarShip Troopers video!

[@indigard2747]

Holy cow, the russian had made every mistakes that you mentioned in the video.😁😁

[@DirefulClamp714]

Watching this has made me subscribe. I've seen few 40k references but after the military analysis of rxterminatus was peak and amazing. Who knows, maybe my sister's have a new Emporer

[@torinnbalasar6774]

I'm going to have to take a hard disagree with you on your opinion of allowing women to serve in combat roles. If the study you refer to by the USMC is the one I remember when looking into the actual data, then it was misleading and came to the wrong conclusions at best. The study did show that the *average* female was less capable than the *average* male, but that's a red herring: you don't have to reduce recruitment standards unless you think it's necessary to have an equal number of women as men, there's nothing stopping you from just recruiting from the high-average pool and not affect the performance of the service by lowering the standard. The report's data on rape incidents is also a red herring: because what it really showed was that the rate of incidents was the same as already present in the military, which points to a very different problem and a need to change the overall culture independent of allowing mixed-sex units.

[@waryace2]

You should cover the old Rough Neck Cartoon and the newer animations of starship troopers.

[@sasir2013]

Let me be clear: 1 If a woman meets the same standards as a man to be a soldier, there's no problem. I think everyone agrees that positive discrimination shouldn't be applied to gender equality 2 If you're worried about dating, you'll always be worried. Historically speaking, there have always be tons of dating even in male-only militaries, wether it is with women from towns and villages close to the deployment area, or through homosexuality

[@maestro-zq8gu]

"We can ill afford another Klandathu." "Someone made a big goddam mistake!" Sky marshall steps down for failure.

[@Johan-tq3fk]

you know if women want to join the army and fight they have the full right to do so and no one has the right to tell them they can't (so long they are physically and mentally healthy). yes the "average" women is physically weaker than the average men, but that does not make them inept at fighting or leading.

[@alexturlais8558]

Exactly! Surely you'd prefer adding the equivalent of 0.75 of a man rather than not get anything?

[@ashholiday123]

Do you know what they do to men in prisoner of war camps.... Now imagine a woman....

[@beayn]

If you pit two armies of 10,000 people against one another, and you make one army 50-50 men/women and the other 100% men, and all have equal training, the army of 100% men will dominate, by a lot, and you will reward the male victors with... female prisoners.

[@alexturlais8558]

@@beayn and if you had 10,000 men vs 10,000+5,000 women, who would win? Women aren't replacing men, they're supplementing them. Why would you turn away willing, able bodied humans who can still be extremely useful? Particularly in a situation where mechanisation has reduced the fitness needed to be an effective fighter.

[@Johan-tq3fk]

@@beayn why are you bringing that up, the point is that they are free to choose the job they want. And that last part makes me sick, don't bring such things up in a disscusion about gender equallity please. Also guns are the ultimate equilizer, modern tech can close the gap quite a bit.

[@pvtread5207]

A, probable night watch keeping an eye on the camp and surrounding areas B, partying happens all the time even if you're in a combat zone C, unit moral is absolutely important in such situations