A Modern Horizons 3 Compliment Sandwich

[@lucascunha4465]

Also worth pointing out, it’s ironic they say the set is for everyone when it will be literally the last magic set ever printed in portuguese, talk about tone deaf

[@ProfDragonite]

But why?

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh man! Yeah, I didn't even think about that! If it had occured to me I'd totally have included it

[@MechaNoodle]

@RedBobcatGames you should pin the comment because it is also an interesting topic too.

[@ValentineGodek]

@@ProfDragoniteMoney (According to WotC, there are a “significant number” (their words) of consumers in Portuguese-speaking countries that buy English products, and apparently that’s a reason to stop printing in Portuguese. Note that many Portuguese-speaking consumers say that is because WotC has been phasing out Portuguese printings and therefore it’s much easier for the consumer to find the English version.)

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ohh, but I just pinned a comment talking about how cool I am!... But fine! The Portuguese are more important than my ego! I guess!

[@JonNuclear]

That lines about "does not line up with the price point players are willing to pay" is one of, if not the single most disrespectful thing that Wizards has ever allowed to be published. They are the ones printing the cards, regardless of the aftermarket price of a card they pay the same to print it, they decide how much of it to print and what price to sell it to retailers at(even if they want to claim their isn't an msrp). They have full control over the aftermarket pricing if they want to change them and also still try and claim that they don't use after market pricing when designing sets. This spits in the fact of all of that and of the players. They could 100% with absolutely zero problems print decent starter modern decks and have them on shelves for $20-$40, the only reason not to is to keep prices high to drive sales on reprints in the future. Its actually disgusting to me that he would word it in this way. Not to mention that one of these commander precons is starting at about €120.

[@TopMostFlavor]

You must realize that if cards people buy do not hold their value, say they start printing fetchlands in every commander deck, then people will stop buying as many magic cards. A huge part of the game whether you like it or not is that it is fun to open a $5 booster and get a $30 card. The gambling aspect of magic and all TCGs has been there since day 1.

[@RedBobcatGames]

You sound angrier than me, and that's really impressive because I'm quite angry about it myself!

[@jeancarlo37]

@@TopMostFlavor but that's a easy fix, insted of making the mechanique expensive ie fetchlands, you make that version expensive ie this alt art super special fetchland, that's what pokemon and yugioh have done for years at this point, yugioh not so much at the moment those guys are going throught some rought times atm, but historically speaking

[@KuroKitten]

@@TopMostFlavor I can guarantee you that if they started printing fetchlands in every commander deck, I'd buy a lot more of the commander decks. I'd also buy a lot more fetchlands, because now I'd be able to afford them. I don't want to own fetchlands *because* they're expensive, I want to own them because they're cards that serve a gameplay function that I need. It doesn't matter how many of them you print, that type of demand isn't going anywhere. There's a reason proxying is becoming popular, and it's not because people are happy not owning their cards - it's because for most of us, at some point, you either can't afford to play the game anymore, or you find another solution.

[@maribakumon]

I, and probably many others, tried to get Maro to comment on that statement shortly after he made it to no avail. It's absurd how stupid WOTC thinks we are. Their lack of transparency is terrible, but what makes it worse is that all of these shit decisions are so obviously about money! Sure yeah they're a company and the bottom line is the most important aspect, but they are alienating existing players while keeping new players at arm's length by making it unaffordable to play. I for one haven't purchased new product in well over a year because of how expensive it all is. And the players at my LGS have all agreed that proxies are acceptable in any amount because of how expensive it is to get the cards we need in order to play the damn game. Apologies for the rant. It's expensive enough just to pay for basic needs. We don't need our entertainment to be even more draining.

[@karndrogo]

Listening to the original lore of six it would’ve actually been neat if Six is a legendary land after Wrenn parted with it

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yes! YES! I wanted to just type yes again! Because yes!

[@tardisman602]

Was thinking the same thing

[@Chocolate83Bunny]

"Six's Grove" it something would be just fine. New legendary lands are just as interesting as legendary creatures

[@joelhatterini6392]

The reason I don't try playing any formats outside of Commander or Pauper, is because I could buy a new pre-built gaming PC for the price of a tier-2 modern deck.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Pretty much!

[@JervisGermane]

And a vintage car for the price of a vintage deck.

[@warp9988]

Yup. Time to proxy up another commander deck because Hasbroze are disgusting.

[@roger18975smith]

And remember, they’re called Meddling Youths because there’s already a card called Meddling Kids from the Unhinged silver-bordered set.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I actually hadn't even connected those dots. They literally couldn't do the joke they wanted, because they'd already done it as an actual joke. Mad

[@JervisGermane]

@@RedBobcatGames I pointed that out in one of my long, rambling comments a few video back. This was their second time going to that well. They just... do that. How many times does Phyrexia have to invade Dominaria?

[@doylerudolph7965]

TBF Meddling Kids is absolutely not a Scooby Doo reference, it’s just a weird card about kids cursing? Or not being allowed to curse? “Haha we said ‘four letter word’ *wink* *nudge*” humor of the juvenile style that was very prevalent in Unhinged.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I mean. Okay. On the face, what you say is reasonable and I believe you. But on the otherhand, if you're telling me ANY HUMAN BEING ALIVE under the age of 90 heard the phrase "Meddling Kids" and didn't immediately jump to Scooby Doo in their head I would not believe you.

[@Our_Remedy]

I really like MTG. But gods do they make it hard to like MTG.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I actually think you've just summed up this entire video

[@adum7451]

Me and my printer love MTG.

[@SawedOffLaser]

MtG is an excellent game but a terrible product. It's why I'm totally cool with proxies and stuff.

[@kyleanderson6829]

You ask a lot of questions with obvious answers but act like it’s just a black and white problem. I don’t think your points are devoid of sense but you seem to just want to whine about things and act like wotc is 100% to blame.

[@GrizzneyGames]

This is my entire feeling about sealed products. 😅

[@noahfriedrich4686]

MaRo breaking the rule and openly acknowledging the secondary market exists as an excuse to not print modern precons was crazy

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, and kind of sad

[@komfyrion]

It's kind of a myth that they don't acknowledge the scondary market. They've talked about it several times, they just don't make a habit of it since it's usually bad PR, and they might end up in sketchy legal territory if they start advertising based on the market value of the product: "this set features two 40€ rares and play boosters have an EV of 8€!".

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah, totally. It's the worst kept secret!

[@SadToffee]

imagine if six was just a land that tapped for one green

[@SadToffee]

would've been the best joke of the whole set

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? I'm furious!

[@Cephalopopo]

the problem with this is it is an actually good joke for intelligent people. but that is not what magic is about.

[@Vearru]

I think that the references in this set is much more okay, because it’s not a story driven plane driven set. It acts as more of a fun call back to magic of old. Also I like it much more as in universe references rather than references to pop culture. I’m much happier with this set than other recent sets.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I'd agree that this is the place to do those sorts of cards. I've just seen them so much in every other set that I'm sick of them honestly

[@doylerudolph7965]

This is something I didn’t really notice seeping into “core/expansion” sets until after MH1. Do you think the success of the extremely self-referential Modern Horizons was the catalyst? Or was it perhaps the death of Un-sets and especially the silver border, which were the previous outlets for those in-jokes?

[@Vearru]

@@doylerudolph7965 The original Modern Horizons + Throne of Eldraine. They are the catalysts. And removing the block structure of release also contributed to this problem since rather than focusing on telling a story they just shove in a bunch of jokes, which is very disappointing.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I keep saying it, they need to bring back the 3 set blocks

[@Vearru]

@@RedBobcatGames Honestly they don’t even need to do that. They can keep with no official block structure but just have sets that tell the same story. The GRN, RNA, WAR sets worked for this, they were able to tell a story without officially including them all in one block, ideally they would have spread things out a bit more between the sets but it worked, the whole Phyrexian arc worked without needing to be in blocks (that said it would’ve been much nicer if we stayed in the new planes for more than one set). 2 set blocks also can be nice with the Kaladesh, Amonkhet, and Ixalan stories; and 4 sets even works like Lorwyn/Shadowmoor and BFZ/SOI both kinda work as effectively being 4 set blocks (although changing the order to BFZ and SOI would’ve been so perfect). They just need to have more focus on story, and every time they go to a new plane I think we need multiple sets to tell that story and flesh out the world. We just need more story focused set design, and if they spread it out more they have more time to plan and write future stories which should give us better content overall.

[@Jaketg93]

Pokemon does the modern deck thing your talking about. They literally print legal copies of the champion decks so people can actually play with the cards. Its wild that Magic doesn't do this too

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah! They do, and I've always loved that! Magic tried something similar with Magic30, but charged a grand for it! MADNESS!

[@matthewkeeling886]

Magic actually did that in the early days, they stopped not long after the turn of the millennium.

[@JervisGermane]

@@matthewkeeling886 I was gonna say the same. They printed non-legal gold-bordered cards and had to stop THAT since people were letting each other play with them like they were legal. There are now gold-bordered cards that are worth almost as much as their non-gold-bordered counterparts.

[@matthewkeeling886]

@@JervisGermane Of course the reason people were playing with them was because they could not get the legal copies... which should have been seen as what it was: a massive untapped market for reprints that dwarfed the losses the company would incur by angering the scalpers who wanted a restricted supply.

[@leadpaintchips9461]

@@JervisGermane I wouldn't say almost as much for the cards that matter (I own one of those decks, just not the Gaea's Cradle one), but more then what you would expect out of a proxy. Blew my mind that the 4x proxy Survival of the Fittest that I have are going for like $22 USD.

[@alterist64]

Compliment sandwich, but its a club sandwich and the bread is like the slices that donald duck cut in that one catroon

[@RedBobcatGames]

Scooby Doo's got nothing on me haha

[@TostonDePana]

Mickey and the beanstalk is where the bread is cut super thin haha.

[@captianbubbles4674]

On the topic of the "in joke" cards, I do think MH3 handles them better than OTJ or MKM did, as while psychic frog is technically a referance, the name "psychic frog" doesn't sound like a referance unless you already know what its referancing. It just sounds like what it is, a frog that has psychic powers. I don't think all of them are handled so well. As you said, Six is a mess in its lore breaking design. But I do think that referance cards like Wurmcoil Larva are necessarily a bad thing, as while it is a referance, its also something unique that has spawned off from the original card.

[@RedBobcatGames]

You know what, I would normally agree with you. I think I've just been ground down by how many of them there seem to be now, that I'm don't even like the ones that are good. I'm just sick of them in general it seems. So in answer to my question in the video. Yes, I am being grumpy haha

[@xaropevic7918]

I think that LCI did better than OTJ and MKM as well, didn't notice the pickaxe references until bobcat mentioned, and they seemed less on the nose to me comparatively

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah, but that's when I truly started to notice it... and it's gotten so much worse since then!

[@daponagegoogenburg807]

I do think the fact that MH3 dosent have Modern decks to go with it is insane. I do like the commander decks bc ya know. Commander, but the modern set not letting people get into modern is a massive mistake.

[@RedBobcatGames]

100% agreed

[@gamma-bv6ty]

I actually like all the jokes and references in MH3. That's part of what Horizons sets are about imo. The problem is as you said, that every set has been like that for the past 6 months so it does get a bit tiring. If the majority of standard sets took themselves seriously, then it would be a great change of pace to have a set like this that doesn't. And even having a silly standard set once in a while could be nice too (despite the issues with OTJ, the community had been asking for a wild west set for ages). Jokes and silly sets are great when they're the exception not the rule.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Absolutely spot on what I think as well. Couldn't agree more

[@khepri3266]

“Witch Enchanter. Dis enchanter!” That was so funny. Glad they spent 2 minutes explaining the joke.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Haha, yeah. Though in fairness I got actually excited vibes from them when they said it. I'll say this, WotC designers do still seem passionate about the game at the very least

[@greysonmiller9407]

Your segment at 16:00 blew my mind. Ive always felt like something about the paper design felt like it had changed, but could never find a solution to my hypothesis. This completely makes sense. The influx of cards that copy triggers and permanents as a payoff, add ability counters to creatures, and other additive properties that are easier to code instead of things that are harder to code like replacement effect makes so much sense now. If you look closely, cards are even designed as if someone chooses at random from a bunch of categorized bins and pastes them into the rules text like Madlibs. "Whenever [Cardname] [Action], if you've [requirement], [payoff]." Cards used to do so much weirder stuff, and no wonder they are regurgitating the old stuff and playing it for a laugh! Its easier to play off the ease of reusing safe to implement cards as a joke than actually come up with mechanically weird and interesting effects. They design all the cards so that it will be easy to code into arena, and if any card like one of those 1% chances happens to crop up, they scrap it.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I imagine the design teams work close together before it even gets to that stage as well. So anything too complicated to code just won't be seen in paper again. And yet Magic Online never seemed to have these issues

[@_Ve_98]

I don't believe this is at all happening. Just look at Emrakul. Coding the controlling a player effect must have been an absolute nightmare, yet they still did it. The issue is that you can't do something like that several times per set. It just makes sense to avoid certain designs because of how much more effort it takes to code them. It's not Arena dictating Magic it's accepting that the game needs to coexist in both mediums and each has its own limitations.

[@ninjanyan1579]

@@_Ve_98 then just... don't put that card in arena.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, or if Arena is unable to function as a way for people who want to play paper magic but can't, then maybe WotC should design a system that can

[@aka_rook]

The 'Witch Enchanter' thing... I guess you had to be there. Glad I wasn't.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Haha, ouch. This comment made me feel bad for them!

[@alexgreenwood711]

was telling myself the same. Who green lighted this kind of jokes as being normal ?

[@meximan374]

Ugh, swear

[@ashrog82]

I thought it was just a name they didn't try very hard on. Honestly, "Disenchanter" would have been a better name. At least it's more descriptive.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

the disney marvel quip reference is a perfect example. let's just make a joke of everything right.

[@saveachip2620]

Interesting that you didnt point out that the unique cards for the collectors eldrazi deck couldn't be extended art so they claim. Yet in actual booster packs you can get the eldrazi commander cards with extended art frames, so its a straight-up lie from them. Also I feel you should have mentioned not only the graveyard deck not having Tarmagofy, but that this deck that was pushed as being themed around goyf's only actually has like 7 gofys in the decklist. And overall they only printed a few new ones

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, even the script for this was sort of a mess. It felt like every day I was having to go back and re-edit or rewrite stuff because some new bad news about the set had come out, or another mistake was revealed. I suspect there were quite a few things slipped through the cracks

[@casmiry]

Yeah, really now, where are the Goyfs? I played against a friend that had this deck last weekend I probably saw all of the Goyfs in 10 minutes.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Again, I'm not saying it's false advertising...

[@saveachip2620]

@@RedBobcatGames 😂 understandable, i just felt like these points specifically were nails in the coffin for their respective parts of the video. Still a very indepth video overall

[@RedBobcatGames]

Haha, thank you

[@andrewware5826]

I will point out that the card Aggressive Mining, which is a Minecraft reference and was made by the old lead designer of Minecraft is in a black border set of m15, which also had plants vs zombie card made by that game designer and the card hot soup, so not all references to other IP used to be in silver border sets. I will concede however that cards like psychic frog are the kinda of cards that the original silver border sets were filled with, jokes about magic cards and magic players mostly,

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, fair point. I had forgotten about those cards. Though, also they weirdly feel less on the nose than some of these news ones

[@GeneralJerrard101]

I do like the occasional joke card. Red Herring killed me. But you're right, if they want to do so many joke cards, they should make more Un sets. Imagine of karlov manor had been an un set, and instead of disguise being what it was, you could disguise cards as other cards, and put other cards on top of the facedown cards to give them wild new abilities and maybe totem armor, or guessing games.

[@doylerudolph7965]

Red Herring should have had cloak, and there should have been cards that allowed a player to choose (not target) a cloaked permanent (perhaps at random) and destroy it, but Red Herring wouldn’t be destroyed? Maybe if it would be destroyed by a spell or ability an opponent controls, you may turn it face up instead, and it’s either a beater with no efficient way to flip it, or it says “when this is turned face up, it can’t be destroyed by spells or abilities your opponents control. Turn it face down, it becomes cloaked” and you’d have mind games of what cloaks are important and what ones aren’t. Put it in the limited set at common or even lower, print “a player may play any number of cards named Red Herring” on it.

[@GeneralJerrard101]

@@doylerudolph7965 you are totally right, it should have had cloak. I will say that I'm not sure if you'd need the choose instead of target terminology because when a card flips it is the same creature and it never hits the stack. I also believe that a simple death trigger would get the desired proof that it is a red Herring and then flip it back down. Of course if this was an Un set it would say "Disguise - getting targeted by a spell or ability."

[@theshinxhunter]

The debut video for this set was a massive lens into the mentality surrounding this set, both from advertising and from design. It was “so modern horizons again, but *more.*” More power, more references, more deep cuts, more “exciting,” more formats to make the set relevant to, etc. etc. It’s like WotC is trying to get their next Modern Horizons hit but needs more and more to get that high again.

[@RedBobcatGames]

You're not wrong. The Shareholders want their growth and profits! Every set has to be the biggest set ever!

[@PaulGaither]

4:46 "The only sets Wizards seems to take seriously now are the Universes Beyond ones" hits HARD.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah.... yeah :(

[@PaulGaither]

@RedBobcatGames - I "quit" magic around covid time because I saw the writing on the wall. I can truly quit following content creators who care about the lore and card design, but I can't care about the meta and card power level and "keeping up with the Jonses." [As we say in the USA.]

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well, I thank you for choosing me as someone to keep watching. I hope at the very least I entertain!

[@PaulGaither]

@@RedBobcatGames You do such a fantastic job! Love the humor, presentation, honesty, hard work in editing, and so forth.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well thank you very much

[@ClexYoshi]

I do hate that MaRo has to talk in such veiled language about precons, but... I THINK here's the thought process; A modern-viable precon requires a modern-viable mana base. Giving players this would either smoke the reprint equity of these game pieces they use to sell their sets, or they would be printed in just enough of a limited supply that it gets the dickens scalped out of it by second hand market resellers, who are already comfortable scalping the commander precons for ridiculous mark-up. I hate that 'Reprint Equity' is a thing and that we can't reprint format staples into the earth like we have with Sol Ring. I really do not think it'd stop people from buying packs if we got Fetches and shocks in a precon, guys!

[@jacobwiren8142]

There needs to be a LOT more non-basic land hate. Triomes and fetch lands are out of control.

[@tomhowell8398]

Great news! It isn't a thing. They just made up a counter-intuitive abstraction to reference in place of talking about their actual thought process in plain English. There is in fact no valuable, finite resource to "smoke", just needlessly manipulative sales tactics.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I think it's all kind of gross honestly. Predatory even when it comes to trading in FOMO like they have been. Look at what's happening with Secret Lair scalping recently, and WotC seem to be all for that

[@mkoookm1]

Yeah I think that's the point Mark Rosewater is trying to make with the price point. If you print the exact decklists of the last pro tour 1 to 1, then scalpers will buy all of the stock and sell the expensive cards for large profit. The only way to discourage scalpers with this type of product is to either not print the expensive cards people would want to scalp for, which would defeat the purpose of the product, or raise the price so scalping isn't profitable enough to be worth it, which prices people out of the product. At this point WOTC needs to make a yearly reprint set where like every box is guaranteed to have at least one copy of every card in that year's set.

[@jacobwiren8142]

@@tomhowell8398 "They just made up a counter-intuitive abstraction to reference in place of talking about their actual thought process in plain English." Just like a real bank! Wait... what do you mean "WotC isn't a real bank"? They are certainly printing money like one!

[@KingLazarius]

We’re not playing Magic the Gathering anymore, we’re playing Commander the Gathering. The sooner they rebrand the better. I mean in the reveal stream the chat kept spamming “Commander Horizons” so much Blake ended up saying it out loud.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh my god, I didn't see that! I would totally have referenced it if so!

[@DoNotPassGO]

BUY SINGLES Wait, wrong channel...

[@RedBobcatGames]

Nah, I'm all about there here too. Maybe we should rework it so that it's legally distinct?

[@RedBobcatGames]

"Many Magic the Gathering players buy singles"?

[@stampede122]

@@RedBobcatGamesfuture video idea? 😅😅

[@slightlyOnion]

​@@RedBobcatGames nice

[@stickofbutter4144]

But I wanna draft 😢

[@Bonk_Co]

WE’RE BREAKING MODERN WITH THIS ONE 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@RedBobcatGames]

And commander too apparently haha

[@EnordAreven]

I get what you mean about the other sets doing it, but the horizon sets are like the time spiral block, referencing old cards and suggesting new unusual cards, so I accept it and actually enjoy the nice call backs to old cards in Horizons sets. ( I'm probably biased cus all of time spiral seemed so awesome to me when I learned about it. ) I agree with pretty much everything else you said though, my god why did the not make modern precons, ( I mean, we know why, because they don't wanna drop the prices and know the secondary market exists, but still, why??? )

[@RedBobcatGames]

You are right about how this set is the one where it's okay to be referencial. I just wish it were the only one! Seeing every other set do it takes the shine off of this one. Just bring back silver border unsets already, you know?

[@yurisei6732]

Yeah I have no problem with MH3 doing this in a vacuum, but when it's a reference set following a reference set that followed a reference set that followed a reference set that followed a reference set, and that will be followed by a reference set which will be followed by a reference set which will be followed by a reference set which will be followed by a reference set... it starts to get repetitive. Everything is memberberries now. If it's not "ooh member Fallout?" it's "ooh member cowboy movies?", and even when MTG-original lore is allowed to exist, it's just "ooh member our recurring characters?". It's been over ten years since I started playing MTG, and the plot is *still* just "So then Jace and Vraska kissed".

[@thetruewisegamer]

I’ll still never get why Magic doesn’t make deck for the other formats? They don’t have to make them every set release maybe just like every year or 2. Though what gets under my skin is adding modern horizons 3 in the game but not just add in the older cards and just add modern to arena. Like how can mtgo play it and not arena? Like seriously most of the cards are their and only need to add a few more sets to do it. If yugioh master duel can come out with all of the cards in the games out the gate so could have arena.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I agree. I'm not sure what Arena's going for, but it doesn't appear to be for players like me. And the idea that it's now warping paper magic is... well it's something

[@_Ve_98]

"How can mtgo play it but not arena?" very simple, because the mtgo UI is shit. Any feature is far easier to implement when you disregard game design principles and just offload the effort onto your players. Shit like that just doesn't fly in a modern game, which means adapting the UI to be able to handle all the weird mechanics at once without breaking. A single replacement effect can be an absolute nightmare to implement and can accidentally break a thousand different things. Also, they are trying to add modern, that's why the evoke elementals are in there too, they just can't do it all at once and so they prioritise new sets because it also helps with physical sales. They haven't even managed to get all of pioneer, let alone modern. I don't work at wizards, so I don't know the exact reasons why, but I can tell you that the bigger a game like this gets, the harder it is to add things. I absolutely do not envy the developers.

[@RedBobcatGames]

So the issue is WotC don't hire enough developers?

[@902496]

As a commander player, my experience has been "These cards are amazing! 😃 They belong in every deck! 😦" The dual face lands are particularly egregious. 20 total, a full cycle of 2 color ones that come in tapped, and a cycle each of monocolored creatures and instants that can come in untapped for 3 life. These are nuts, and almost every deck will want to run at least one of them. They will become EDH staples and probably multi-format staples. Thankfully they are all uncommon so at least they don't touch pauper.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I think they know exactly what they're doing here. Time for everyone to pay up apparently

[@Mako276]

Haven't finished the video yet but I hope you mention the actually functionally broken Wheel of Potential.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I sadly did not

[@Mako276]

@@RedBobcatGames Boooooooo. Terrible video. :)

[@RedBobcatGames]

Haha, yeah. Sorry

[@melr.5492]

Okay okay I agree with the general premise of the sentiment, but "once upon a time, a blatant Minecraft reference would have been silver-bordered" is incredibly funny when you consider Aggressive Mining from M15

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yes, true. But even that card's more subtle than just Diamond Pickaxe or Meddling Youths, though I do get you

[@fredericgagnon]

Aggressive mining was designed by Notch though, and so were a handful of cards in M15, like Genesis Hydra was designed by the plant vs zombie creator, Edmund McMillen,the guy that made Super Meatboy and The Binding of Isaac, made cruel sadist. It was a neat idea to have famous game designers from outside MTG design a card.

[@doylerudolph7965]

Aggressive Mining is very much not a blatant reference.

[@melr.5492]

@@doylerudolph7965 I mean I guess whether it's blatant or not is subjective, but I mean I totally think it is lmao

[@ninjanyan1579]

honestly, living in a state that has been messed up pretty bad by overly aggressive mining, a minecraft reference was the last thing on my mind.

[@qriist1850]

Little did we know that Ajani's Pridemate getting functional errata to accomodate Arena was just the tip of the iceberg.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, it seems giving the player the option to add the counter would have been too hard to code? I guess??

[@gentleman_muk]

@@RedBobcatGamesor maybe too annoying to choose yes or no if it triggers a lot

[@RedBobcatGames]

I guess. I mean I feel there's ways around this. Just add a toggle on the card for auto add for instance. But yeah

[@qriist1850]

@@RedBobcatGames IIRC Mark Rosewater was asked about the errata when it happened and he said the change was for Arena flow reasons. I agree that using the computer's ability to remember a toggle would be the better solution.

[@SupahGeck]

Ehhh I'm probs biased as primarily a commander player and Arena draft junkie, but I actually really like the set. Since I play primarily on Arena I am actually glad that they take it into consideration when designing cards. I also really enjoy the draft environment, it feels like a pauper format where mostly the commons and uncommons dictate your draft, not too many hardcore unbeatable bombs, heck the "best card" is a common. To that end, 80% of the cards I want for my commander decks are uncommon MDFCs, which if people are cracking this set for rares/mythics I don't care about, should be relatively affordable. I hear you on all the marketing, price gouging, and general WOTC/Hasbro are a big corporation that are gonna lie and steal from you as much as legally allowed points. They definitely should have printed Modern decks, but I've been playing long enough to remember the last time they did, and they weren't particularly well recieved. They certainly didn't get me into Modern then, and in my 11 years of playing I've never had much interest. Idk, the problem with this set to me is the price, though I'm relatively insulated from it because drafts cost the same on Arena. I wouldn't mind buying a box to draft in paper at a normal price but this is "premium" because WOTC/Hasbro are corporations in 2024. Doing whatever they can to scalp every last cent they can. I just think it's a little harsh to beat up the designers, arena developers, etc, when they are doing their best to deliver us a quality set under the constraints of late stage capitalism. Maro has to tread the line between the players and corporate, but they could replace him at any time with someone who will keep to their side of it. As I always say, if we Magic players just pooled our seemingly endlees money to buy WOTC/MtG from Hasbro outright we could print cards for the price of cardboard and put an end to all our constant outrage. So if you're mad about it, save your money and let's all go in y'all!

[@RedBobcatGames]

If I had money, I'd be right there with you haha. And also I think you're right, if the price was lower I'd of been much more forgiving of this sets sins

[@yurisei6732]

The ratio of bread to filling in this sandwich makes it more like a "compliment artisanal burger". To add another ingredient: I have a theory on why everything is a joke set now. I think it's the direct result of MTG not having lore anymore. The way that set design usually works is that you have a ton of ideas for mechanics, themes, archetypes, and cards, then you whittle them down to the ~150 cards you can fit in the set and shelve all the ideas you couldn't fit in so that you can revisit them later on. According to the linked video, the way that MH3 was created was that one of them would make a joke, and then the team would say "Yeah I guess we can put that in". I doubt that the design team today is significantly more interested in humour than the design teams of five or ten years ago, given a lot of them are the same people, but I bet that sets used to have an easier time preventing joke cards making the final cut, because there were lore cards competing for set space. Current MTG sets are low flavour, focusing more on top-down genre tropes than on actual storytelling. Settings are smaller, there are fewer things going on during a set, and the set story focuses more on interacting with named characters than on interacting with the world. This most certainly has the consequence of set design having fewer lore cards, so joke cards will experience less competition for set slots, meaning more joke cards released. For what it's worth, I have no problem with the Arena team being able to tweak paper cards; it's not like I know what got replaced for what, and there's no point being upset about what that idea makes me imagine. The paper team just needs to make sure that changes the Arena team proposes still work in paper. And keyword counters could be quite easily solved by wording it "with a finality keyword counter" rather than "with a finality counter", to tell the reader there's a keyword attached to this word and they should go find out what it means.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I say it in the comments somewhere of every video. There's a good chance I've even said it to you before. But they need to bring back 3 set blocks! Let us spend more time in a setting before forgetting it and moving on!

[@yurisei6732]

@@RedBobcatGames Before that, I think MTG lore needs a hard reboot. Yugioh hard-rebooted its story every 3 years, and as a result its fans are *way* more interested in the story than MTG fans are. If I had been in charge of MOTM, I'd have permanently killed off 25-40% of all named characters, permanently retired whatever proportion left would add up to 80%, these being characters who no longer show up outside their home planes, and semi-retired the rest of them to "can appear on any plane but will only show up occasionally and as secondary characters" status. Then I'd have made the Omenpath story about an entirely new set of heroes and villains, allowing for a story that has no baggage, so that it can be a fresh start for people who could never get into the story because it became too bloated. That would then set the stage for having proper multi-set blocks again because we would still have lots of space for character development, instead of every set needing to give a new problem to someone whose story was already over.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah. If it was me I think I'd have gone the other way. No omen paths. Don't make it a multiverse story at all. Go super introspective and tell detailed storys about small groups of characters on a single plane for a year. Then, move onto another plane with brand new characters the year after AND DO NOT CROSS THE OVER!

[@doylerudolph7965]

Yep, Magic going from a big pond (the multiverse) to many small ponds (planes with no way to walk between them) would have been very cool - Jace, Teferi, Nissa, etc are all very big fish but they’re now contained to their small ponds, and on a similar footing to the other powerful characters who didn’t have a spark.

[@marcellosalis5063]

I think the main point of this video is that they're trying to turn a non-rotating format into a rotating one. They tried this with Legacy 15 years ago and they messed up. They tried it with Modern 5 years ago and they messed up. And yes: Modern Horizons 3 is actually targeted to Commander, because Modern is already messed up. Now they're trying hard with Commander and in fact they've already messed up with that as well.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Personally I'd say the point of the video is I'm really annoyed about that whole Six as a Treefolk thing, but 10 minutes on just that would have annoyed people!

[@ninjanyan1579]

@@RedBobcatGames Make it a separate video then, I'd watch.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Haha, thank you! If you like lengthy insane ramblings you're going to love the video I'm working on now

[@marcellosalis5063]

@@RedBobcatGames I love insane ramblings as well! I find fascinating how you could analyse so seriously, point by point, something as b*llsh*tty by definition as WotC marketing announcements. 😁

[@RedBobcatGames]

It just... makes me feel things. Watching them is like watching a dance routine by someone that robbed me, or looking at a painting created by someone I know is a liar. I'm simply inspired by corporate nonsense

[@numericalpha]

To be fair, the whole point of Modern Horizons is to shake up a relatively unchanging format with cards so powerful that they HAVE to upgrade. I also think they went too far with Emrakul being immune to interaction. Just print a card that declares you the winner and can't be countered.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I can see that. But as a non-modern player I always assumed what peopel liked about the format was that it didn't get shaken up. Every other format does

[@anemone3777]

Standard legal sets should absolve to that function already, instead of printing more commander cards, but here are.

[@Tolls4You]

@@RedBobcatGames Mondern Horizons 2 was so powerful it basically rotated legacy (a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much), and while MH3 doesn't look as powerful as that, the modern horizons goal appears to be to artifically rotate modern because the new cards are more powerful than the current field.

[@emilywein8956]

@@RedBobcatGames That is what is appealing and was historically appealing about modern for me and many at my lgs. Before commander became the 'thing'. Standard was less popular than Modern in most places because even though your modern deck was often 2 standard decks, your modern deck maintained itself for the most part for many years. MH1 and on removed this conceit and I suddenly don't care about keeping up with modern and have been only playing legacy.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, again I don't play but this was always my understanding of the appeal. When I first looked into getting a Modern deck though, the price is just out of reach for me so I ended up making a homebrew kitchen table format with friends. A much better experience than paying for new sets like this in my opinion

[@alistairetheblu]

@10:40 Except that their official stance is "they don't acknowledge the secondary market." Of course, that is invalidated by them saying that line about a modern precon being impossible because it "wouldn't match the price point people will pay for a precon". And hey, they also "don't have an msrp anymore" so that makes the price point statement nonsense as well, right? The real answer is that they look at "cost" to print these including how much potential money they lose by not saving reprints till some other set, but yeah, what a tangled mess of lies and predatory practices.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well, I didn't want to be the one to say it...

[@JazMan2001]

Wait, did Rosewater just acknowledge the secondary market on his blog about the commander precons???

[@RedBobcatGames]

I mean, I'm just requoting what he said.

[@grantflippin7808]

Every day we stray closer to TCGs getting banned in the United States

[@CTimmerman]

Cardboard rectangles are serious business. Six was probably still sentient at that time.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh very serious indeed. So serious that I have to ask, at what time? The 30 seconds between when Wrenn was still joined and left? If you say yes, I'd probably be okay with that honestly haha

[@shawnmcdonald7017]

I really like modern horizons 3. That being said I think this video does a pretty good job talking about the problems the set has (I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noticed those things in the 'Debut Video'.) I do wish that the set had some preconstructed decks aimed at getting people (like me) into playing modern. To be perfectly honest, I wish there were more products aimed at getting people into actual sixty-card constructed formats in general. I was originally going to type out a long-winded explanation of my thoughts on why they probably couldn't print the made-for-modern precons we all want but it was too long so I'll boil it down to just this: The decks would either be powerful enough to compete in the environment of the modern format and the demand would exceed the supply due to a glut of high power multi-format staple cards (ragavan, fetch lands, evoke elementals). Or the decks would lack those very cards but fail at their intended goal of getting people into modern, which would also suck. Again, great video, cheers. :)

[@RedBobcatGames]

Thank you, and you're welcome

[@spvstu]

Tarmaqof is not even expensive to get a reprint. No one would have complained but also what a flavor fail in the theme deck.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yup, 100%

[@mueezadam8438]

The dev team making Six a treefolk is accidentally an extremely interesting bit of card storytelling. If Wrenn isn’t animating Six… What *is*…?

[@RedBobcatGames]

Okay, okay yeah. I can get on board with that. That's fun!

[@arrowrandoman]

Another thought I have about the finality counter cards is that one of them has Adapt. I've been slowly getting back inot Magic, so that's another thing I have no idea how to handle. Not that I'm getting many cards from this due to my current budget, but the idea this set is for everyone while there is so many cards without reminder text makes me upset. How can it be for everyone when there is so much to research for how even single cards work? Makes me look forward to Bloomburrow even more because at least that stuff looks like I could actually teach my friends curious about Magic how to play.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I'm excited for Bloomburrow too, but the closer we get and the more I think about WotC's recent track record. I'm growing concerned

[@guard13007]

Every time I see "special versions" of something, it makes me happy that I really hate foil cards. Because special versions of things are ALWAYS foil. And I could never afford them anyhow, so I appreciate that they make them unappealing as well.

[@RedBobcatGames]

And unplayable some times too with how they like to display text on some of these cards

[@someepicnerd7821]

The modern horizon sets have always caused some changes in almost every format the sets cards are legal in but this time it is so blatantly focus on commander that it is a problem

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, the precons alone prove that

[@zyde3396]

The humor point for this set is overstated, mogg mob isn’t a joke wight isn’t a joke, cards that’s reference back don’t necessarily have to be jokes Also the complaint about clue being a joke is also off the mark just existing and referencing the source material doesn’t make it a joke at all ??

[@RedBobcatGames]

I'm unsure. I think I'd happily consider a self-referential call back a joke. Even if it's not designed to make you laugh, it is designed to make you say "Oh, I get it". Which I'm happy to group in with as a joke

[@zyde3396]

@@RedBobcatGames if you want to consider that a joke be my guest though I think a call back should just be a call back And if it is a joke you need to separate good jokes from bad jokes as while cards like holy cow do take away from a sets quality and make it less serious something like wight of the reliquary won’t even raise an eyebrow for most people or take away from the quality of the set. The same goes for mod gang commander and mogg mob

[@RedBobcatGames]

I mean, sure. But even if I did seperate jokes and call backs, I'd have just said I was "annoyed about all the jokes and call backs" instead. I'm not sure my point would have changed

[@ravenjoker254]

Here's a thought I had for a while - I wonder how much of this are corporate decisions and how much is this R&D messing up? Especially when I look at MaRo, I wonder how much he has influence over these decisions, and how much coporate has decided that he's a suitable mouthpiece so that R&D gets the blame. It seems weird to me that designers would decide not make modern precons without influence from above, but it also seems weird that Rosewater is the one who's telling us about these decisions. Not to entirely defend R&D, they have their issues, but it also seems to me a lot like they're becoming scapegoats...

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah, I realise it seems like I'm coming for the designers here. But I'm fully aware that it's Hasbro above them. I questioned whether I should show the faces of the design team when quoting them, and chose to because it would have felt dismissive if I hadn't. But I made a point not to use any names, because honestly I don't think they're the problem. In hindsight I probably could have made more of a point of that in the video

[@michaelturner2806]

I want to be a little more forgiving on the digital collaboration side. I forget what set it card it was, but I remember a story where one card required two months of extra work by programmers to make it work as written on Magic Online, where if it had been worded slightly differently but functionally similar it could've avoided all that work. So if it's something minor like that, I'm all for avoiding forcing others to do unnecessary work, especially if it causes people to be stressed and forced overtime or something. It doesn't set the best precedent though and can be a slippery slope, that can lead to cards being designed not just to avoid unnecessary excess work, but to restrict functionality to only things currently doable within the client. If it leads to every card is just "(old card) with set's mechanic" that's a problem, yeah.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ahh, see. Now I'm of the other mind. I LOVE extra work. And unions that don't allow for mandatory overtime. Too much work? Good, hire more people! Or at the very least stop firing them!

[@gustavosousa5246]

can i say the flavor of energy trows me off a bit, first, energy was temur, when it bicome jeskai, second it was implied that ir was used for powering artfacts and creatures that lived close to eather, besides the izzet ones, most of the energy cards feels so distant from the original idea

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh that's interesting. I hadn't really looked into Energy because it's never been my thing, but you raise a good point. I might give it an eye

[@collinbeal]

I wish the energy dude from the commander precons was Temur so that I could use the cracked green energy cards on Arena for a Brawl deck with him at the helm.

[@collinbeal]

To be entirely fair, though, there were white and black energy cards on Kaladesh, as the Consolate and Aetherborn also made use of it.

[@dianethepunk6149]

Modern Horizons sets have a history of breaking not just the modern metagame, but also the commander, pauper, vintage, and legacy metagame.

[@RedBobcatGames]

What a time to be alive!

[@Zarbon000]

I didn’t even know Wizards made videos like this 😂

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah, loads of them. They're actually really good. I just have an issue with what they're saying in them a lot of the time haha

[@Zarbon000]

@@RedBobcatGames I didn’t know they existed until the Magic 30 announcement. I watched that one. And swore I wouldn’t watch any more ever again. That product was a punch in the throat to all us players who supported their company for decades.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I don't know if you watched my video on Karlov Manor, but I learned a lesson there to avoid debut videos before a set comes out

[@CircusQueen8]

18:10 to be fair, their options were A. Don't use finality counters, and make the already wordy cards even more so B. Do use finality counters, and include reminder text (which is worse than option A) C. Use finality counters with no reminder text, assuming that franchised players (that this set is marketed towards) would remember the fairly recent mechanic or would just look it up

[@tomhowell8398]

Or they could just not print these designs because they don't fit on the card and that's a bad thing.

[@RedBobcatGames]

D. Lower complexity creep of the game and print less wordy cards?

[@yurisei6732]

@@RedBobcatGames The alternative is powercreep. Complexity creep is necessary if you don't want to go balls-in on powercreep, because if you have neither, new products aren't very interesting. To sell new product, you either make the product more powerful than existing options so that people buy it to win, or you make it the same strength as existing options but accomplish those effects in a more intriguing way so that people buy it to have a fresh experience.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I'm not sure I agree. WotC are always finding new design space. Look at things like Crimes and Outlaws for instance from OTJ. That's a whole new untapped area of design, not much more complicated than previous card design space and could easily have been lower power to keep the creep in check (though, historically it wouldn't have sold as well if that were the case admittedly. I just think the health of the game should come before profits)

[@yurisei6732]

@@RedBobcatGames But Crimes and Outlaws were terrible... Outlaws isn't new design space, it's just tribal but where the tribe is multiple classes. It's not even the first time we've had multiple-tribal support, since undead support often says "zombies and skeletons". Crimes is way too broad and doesn't work on a flavour or archetype level. But it doesn't really matter how good mechanics are, it matters how much people want to buy the cards. OTJ is a set people bought because it was powerful, not because it was exciting.

[@Jupiterbun-bunJetson]

Gonna be honest, if myself or my friends had the option to buy a modern deck we’d probably pull the good stuff out for commander or 60 card kitchen table magic games. But they 100% should have made modern precons for the modern set. Commander decks being a part of everything isn’t really bad if it’s the money maker for wotc, it is bad though when it overtakes non-commander things. Also, the jokes and stuff like Six not being a tree are things that myself and I think most people don’t care about. Gonna be honest, I don’t know what a paychatog is beyond seeing it in some 45 minute long video essay about mtg. Psychic frog is a funny looking frog that I want lol Good video dude! Also, saw another youtuber show off your textless deck in a short which is awesome. ^^

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah I saw that too. And I think you're right about most people not caring about Six. I just... you know I have to follow my heart. I care! Haha, and I think that comes across, so hopefully that in itself is entertaining at least

[@Jupiterbun-bunJetson]

@@RedBobcatGames It’s a fun flavor fail argument, it wasn’t taken too seriously. ^^ I didn’t know tarmagoyf (or however you spell it) isn’t even in the commander deck. That’s so dumb. A bunch of the people I know who love commander are all saying they really want these decks, they have the money for them, but the cards in them just aren’t worth the prices.

[@RedBobcatGames]

See, I've had a few people tell me in the comments that it's obvious Tarmogofy isn't in the deck because people always check deck lists before they buy a product... and... I just don't think that's true. I watched this marketing vid and then found out that Tarmo wasn't in there till after. If I could have afforded it, there's a chance a would have made the purchase without checking myself. It happens!

[@Jupiterbun-bunJetson]

@@RedBobcatGames I’m pretty sure most people go off of what they see on the packaging exclusively in most cases. One of my friends thought the eldrazi deck came with all the eldrazi titans because it’s, you know, an eldrazi commander deck. lol

[@RedBobcatGames]

I can see that, and they wouldn't have been wrong to think it!

[@allisonkuechlesilva3332]

To be fair, MtG has always had pop culture references on cards. For example Grave Bramble (plants vs zombies), Shark Typhoon (Sharknado), Repentant Vampire (Angel from Buffy) and Time Warp (Rocky Horror). Of course, they may be more common now when they used to be one or two a set max, but there have always been some.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, like I said in the video they were always there. But there's just SO MANY now. Sometimes it feels like any given card from a set is a reference or joke. Where's the actual magic cards gone?

[@orangesurfblue]

Um ackchually, The Incredibles is a Pixar movie. 🤓

[@RedBobcatGames]

Treading into waters I know nothing about here... but I thought Pixar was owned by Disney?

[@orangesurfblue]

@@RedBobcatGames I mean yeah, you're right. Guess it just feels like, Disney didn't make that movie, they bought it after the fact and had no part in the creation of it. Anyway ignore me I'm just being a pedant.

[@exewon]

@@RedBobcatGames Pixar was bought by disney in 2006, incredibles as a movie came out before that in 2004 if I remember correctly. So yes, disney owns pixar, but disney wasn't involved in the creation of that movie at all. and Pixar and disney still had a very different 'feel' to them for a long time as well. I wanted to make the euhm Actually joke as well but surf beat me to it XD

[@RedBobcatGames]

@orangesurfblue Hey! I will never ignore a pedant! Have you not seen my videos? That's what I'm all about here!

[@RedBobcatGames]

@exewon Well... I guess I stand by my mistake for comedic purposes. Was the Syndrome reference worth it? Probably not! But also in fairness this isn't the worst mistake I've made in a video referencing something I know nothing about

[@Hex.Decimal]

Bobcat you are a total game changer for MTG KZbin you are a voice for the voiceless and speak complete facts. Thank you for expressing so much so precisely, your writing is very enjoyable. Did you see that popular MTG shorts KZbinr referenced you in their latest video (based on your textless commander deck) it’s awesome and they pay credit to you. I really think you’re gonna be a very successful KZbinr if that’s what you want, keep making new ruleset videos and custom card videos, thank you for what you do! Much love from the States.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well! I don't know what to say to that! Thank you very much, those are some really kind and supportive words and it means a lot. Thank you again!

[@denshitenshi]

As a game developer I can imagine how much of a pain to make replacement effects would be on Arena, but also there are a handful of "instead" placement effects already on Arena already. That game rakes it in, surely they can get some extra manpower on this?

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yes, exactly! Or at the least stop firing people!

[@andyharrisonharper]

Im CONSTANTLY saying that i would kill to get into modern or other 60 card formats, but since theres no modern precons, insane financial barrier to entry, and hardly any support from the game stores since they all mainly focus commander and limited, its not even worth the investment since game stores arent incentivized to run events for it.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Exactly the boat I'm in too

[@dannybeane2069]

4:52 Which makes sense, cause I imagine the IP holders have very strict rules on how their brand is portrayed. Probably means that magics customers are no longer the players, but IPs willing to give them millions of dollars to commission cards for them.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, you may just be right

[@spvstu]

Your point at 10 mins was a knock out! You nailed the esrb/reprint Achilles heel with a fantastic example.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Thank you

[@Uri6060]

Yeah I really dislike the over the top ones, especially ones that take ya out of it. Like ancient grudge, is a funny themed card, but it doesnt take you out of it and its a serious card with a wink and a nod. Like Holy Cow did not have to be called holy cow. It couldve been called something else, and the community can easily just find an angel cow funny. It doesnt need to be called "holy cow" like that feels more like a colloquiel name for it than an official one.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Agreed. Let us come up with the name Holy Cow IF we actually like the card. Don't try and force it

[@ninjanyan1579]

I'd rather pull a divine bovine than a holy cow tbh

[@RedBobcatGames]

See now that's funny! I'm extra annoyed!

[@spencerschmidt-rundell1612]

As another person who loves Eldrazi, I dreaded seeing that there were a lot more eldrazi printed in this set. I didn't want to dole out the hundreds of dollars to purchase those cards, but knew I would have to if I wanted my two (yes, two. I had both of them back in 2018 or so) eldrazi tribal decks to feel conplete.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I mean, to be clear. When I say I LOVE Eldrazi, I'm specifically talking about the concept behind them. And also the art design. And the play style. I think Emerge is fun. I like devoid. I also like the mythos the community has built up around them. Eldrazi winter was a moment in history. So... yeah okay i love them

[@matthewkeeling886]

Frankly, after several draft and sealed experiences with the set. It is hit-or-miss on how fun it is in limited. A lot of the powerful effects are ones that undo what a player just did or extend the game really long so you get lots of land drops rather than, you know, ramping you into having enough mana for casting Eldrazi. If you have two energy decks or aggro decks facing off it is fun and fast with complex board states making for some really interesting games. If you have anything else at the table it is boring and slower than molasses in would have been in January at the north pole during the Younger Dryas. You would think that after the disasters that were the last two Modern Horizons sets they would have learned not to do this "amped up Modern Set" thing again. At least it fits the previously established pattern and isn't as insulting as the MKM/Cluedo thing of printing Shock in the main set for the pun then printing Lightning Bolt in the other half for who knows what reason when Standard desperately needs better direct damage cards for Red. They have been using the "Commander is Popular!" excuse for shoving those decks in everyone's faces and discontinuing other products for over a decade now and the format had been about to totally collapse in popularity when they started. The whole thing is total marketing driven insanity! And they seriously need to stop with the Commander preconstructed decks every set. The whole point of EDH was that it was the thing you played with castoffs and one-of cards already in your collection not a deck straight out of the box!

[@RedBobcatGames]

I haven't heard much from people that have actually played with the set yet. Your comment was a surprise to read and extremely enlightening!

[@nineth_lion6133]

I didn't know about the lore of for six until you brought it up but it really feels like they missed a cool opportunity. And the missed opportunity show just how much more care they put into designing the mechanics of Universes beyond. Like imagine if instead if Six had vanishing 2 or 3 and "when Six dies return it to to battlefield transformed" and then the back half could either just be a forest, or maybe be a 0/4 plant with defender with the retrace effect moved to this side.

[@RedBobcatGames]

OH MY GOD OR A MELD CARD!!! That would have been awesome!

[@axelostlund2348]

Some of the most compelling games of Magic I have played have been Packwars of Champions of Kamigawa, and other older sets, both players were low powered, and thus on an even playing field.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Agreed. Plus this might be a weird take, but I liked the slower pace back then. Not everyone needed to combo on turn 2. A turn 1 land then pass was fine

[@Windowlick_]

The bit about Arena controlling how cards work must be true because Wheel of Potential doesnt work in Arena like it does in paper. Because of the wording in paper you can set the X energy cost to whatever you want, and choose not to. pay it.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Excellent stuff, good good good

[@YourCrazyOverlord]

I really didn't catch that the Arena team dictates mechanical design, and I know find that deeply troubling. It stifles the old weird wording that made certain cards a delightful rules enigma.

[@RedBobcatGames]

And pressumably design space too. If the computer can't understand it or it would be too much to program, it can't be done on the cards

[@drakelikestobake106]

The critiques are right in so many ways because I'm a commander player and forgot what modern even was so I only bought the set for cool legendarys to be commanders or for really strong cards

[@RedBobcatGames]

And it's yet another Modern set that does nothing to get new people into Modern. Which I hear is a shame

[@MWImmortalking]

I loved the part about Modern precons, WotC *COULD* make precons with an affordable entry proce point. But of course they arent willing to price one as such and print enough supply to meet demand for such a product to avoid scalping.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well, if they really wanted to avoid scalping they'd print it to demand. But yeah, I get you

[@Raymx3]

This is the best way to summarize how I’ve felt about mtg in 2024. I want nothing more than for wizards to watch this

[@RedBobcatGames]

Wizards as a company? Sure, but the people there? I hope if they do they start with one of the more positive ones. I feel bad for the developers making this game under boot of Hasbro. I wish we could seperate out those companies or do away with the targets

[@_Ve_98]

The thing I will say about references is that they make far more sense in a Modern Horizons set because of how they are meant to change so many formats. It's just far easier to remember cards if they are like "oh, it's mulldrifter but eldrazi". It's not just about "funny, haha". It makes the game easier to play and makes the pseudo rotation that mh always causes far less painful to the players because it at least references the modern of old.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah, and if they're going to do references this is the set for it. But they have to do it constantly in the other sets too?

[@thehipduke1769]

My own comments on whats said I just recently got into Magic and for a while I only knew commander because that was simply all the shop had for precons. As someone who had never played there was no way in hell I would start buying packs to try assemble something. A friend also bought the Eldrazi Precon and my god it feels like everything in that deck does at least two things and has to interact with something else.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Singles are the way to go if you're looking to build your own deck. Or proxies to be honest

[@thehipduke1769]

@@RedBobcatGames Now that I have actually played some games that exactly what I'm doing. Cards are wayyy too expensive to just buy randomly so proxing stuff that seems fun trying it out and going from there.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yup, which is a weird thing for them to do as a company. They've priced it so high they've trained their players to stop buying cards

[@ItsMeBeeee]

Damn this breakdown was wild. I wonder what magic will look like when they stop producing it

[@RedBobcatGames]

I've had that exact thought several times. Look at the video games industry. Even successful studios get shut down all the time. WotC have already started downsizing and laying staff off. How long time Hasbro decide it's better if it's gone all together?

[@monatsayuri39]

My thing with MH3 is the price of it (like $100 per small box at Walmart, commanders run 60-80, way to price people out of a set) tho im hoping we get a 4 color plane soon… it would be nice to expand upon those ideas.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I think if the price was more reasonable I'd have been a lot more kind to the set. I'd probably still make the video to point out the other issues, but the price is what generates my overall negative tone

[@monatsayuri39]

@@RedBobcatGames right, that and the lack of more bottom up sets especially recently. I personally got into magic initially from 2015 when my dad bought me a core small box. I took a little hiatus and came back to it right before LCOI came out. The difference in tone as well as a lack of a 4 color set in the entire time I’ve been playing makes me a little peeved. Especially hearing how much joking around there was in the design room

[@RedBobcatGames]

I think going back to bottom up is harder now, because they're burning through concepts so quickly. If we went back to a 3 set block structure, we could get a little longer to play with each mechanic and thus take some pressure off the design team, and give the lore team room to breath

[@monatsayuri39]

@@RedBobcatGames I completely agree with that too, we have so many sets coming out so quickly, I mean, otj came out like a month ago and MKM two, these sets have very little time to breathe and I feel absolutely smothered by magic sets. And some of them just are kinda meh both mechanically and lore wise. LCOI was pretty good though

[@Frogleeoh]

However they want to spin it, they don't necessarily have to print the most competitive modern decks. They just need to build some preconstructed modern legal decks that at least each have a core that could eventually be buiilt up into a competitive modern strategy. Surely there are a few combinations of 60 cards they could slap together for the same price as, if not cheaper price than, the commander decks.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? I wasn't exactly asking for much. Just a foot in the door

[@andrewb378]

I liked the part of the video where they talked about how they push cards to the arena team to see if they work because *they still managed to bungle one of the cards*. Wheel of Potential is actually completely busted as-printed. I have copied the oracle text below: "You get {E}{E}{E} (three energy counters), then you may pay X {E}. Each player may exile their hand and draw X cards. If X is 7 or more, you may play cards you own exiled this way until the end of your next turn." Do you see the problem? The card says "You may pay X Energy" but never checks to see if you *actually paid* any energy. You can name x=50, decline to pay, and X is still 50. You and everyone else can then exile your hand and draw 50 cards. As printed, it's broken in half and I have yet to see anything about an errata. No mention of anything outside of JudgingFTW where I first saw this.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Hahaha! Amazing! It's been a while since I've seen a card like this, and it's more ammo for that "WotC shouldn't keep firing their QA employees" videos I'm been thinking of making since those Christmas layoffs

[@guilhermequeiroz682]

You cant use that in a tournment setting tho. See "play as intended" rule

[@andrewb378]

@@guilhermequeiroz682 You're correct, but the text on the card should still be right. And it's mighty embarrassing (or it should be) when it's wrong.

[@NMS127]

I suspect this is a case of the rules update for the set not being out yet. There will probably be a rule that says if an effect of a spell allows you to pay X of something and the value of X isn't otherwise defined, X must be the value you actually pay or 0. Edit: Though I'm not sure why it needs to say "you may pay". If it just said "pay" I think it would be fine.

[@SawedOffLaser]

"This set is for everyone!" Pioneer players: 🤨 Standard players: 🤨

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well obviously because Commander is for everyone! Easy!

[@bananabeam5602]

You make a great point when talking about price. I love playing commander because i can build somewhat powerfull/expensive decks and just proxie them. And if my playgroup won't let me. I just play a cheaper deck. But modern is a competitive format where proxies are not allowed and the avrg price of decks are much higher

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah. Well, I say "Yeah" but I don't actually know because I don't own a deck. I can't afford to play Modern!

[@maidenless_tarnished]

I just built a Shilgengar deck and indeed needed to look up what finality counters actually do. Wanted to make sure I could flicker/blink a creature to remove the counter and you can since the counter only cares if the creature dies. Hopefully that doesn't come up in games to where I have to pull out my phone to show the ruling

[@RedBobcatGames]

Some people have left comments saying that any players who run these cards will be enfranchised enough to just know what they do. Glad to see I'm not alone

[@maidenless_tarnished]

@@RedBobcatGames I will say I had a vague idea cause of Isareth the Awakener using corpse counters and I remembered they were similar, but finality counters are significantly more busted with how easy it is to get rid of them

[@atticratz6128]

@@maidenless_tarnished Are people able to run many effects to get rid of the counters? Solemnity and something else? I really like that finality counters communicate that if a creature is blinked, it comes back to the battlefield without the exile clause. The old "if this creature would leave the battlefield, exile it instead" text was super confusing in that a blink effect returns the creature to the battlefield for you permanently... even though it's leaving the battlefield with that text on it. Players have more options to get rid of finality counters, but the counters also are a better representation of how the rules play out for these "temporary recursion" abilities in my opinion. I like lower power and am a newer player, so I am with you on complexity creep.

[@maidenless_tarnished]

@@atticratz6128 I found a bunch of cards in orzhov that just remove counters from any permanent or moves them around. Stuff like power conduit and nesting grounds

[@fredericchristie3472]

So, regarding Modern precons: They *absolutely* should have done it. *But*... They did sell Pioneer Challenger decks. They've sold decks to get people into Standard. They apparently have seen that these sell underwhelmingly. That having been said... We had a ton of fun with the Pioneer decks we got. They were really interesting... And they could have been made even better out of the box, with things like more Hazoret copies in the red aggro deck, etc. If they were willing to print more valuable cardboard, which for some reason they refuse to do. The Standard planeswalker intro decks overwhelmingly sucked, but they could just have printed better planeswalkers. From a pedagogical perspective, showing players overcosted planeswalkers who often struggle to defend themselves actually will misteach them about the game. So I absolutely do think that these products *could* sell and get people in, but they probably do have *some* data that suggests otherwise. I'd just suggest that they can't build these other formats if they don't try.

[@RedBobcatGames]

One of the issues is that they refuse to print a deck that doesn't make money. It's okay if some products aren't themselves profitable, because if it brings in new players then they'll make more money in the long run. For instance, I now won't be buying any cards at all for Modern, because I do not have even a basic starter set. If they'd have sold me one at a loss, I'd probably have given them more money long run buying cards to upgrade it later. They're being very short sighted and it's bad for the health of the game (in my opinion)

[@fredericchristie3472]

@@RedBobcatGames So, I agree that they should sometimes take a chance on products... but if something doesn't actually sell that well, then it's not going to be onboarding people in any case. It's clear that Hasbro is pushing them toward really short-sighted decisions to maximize short-term profit and that's dumb and scary for the hobby, but I can understand the position that they can't just roll the dice. Of course, I also reject the idea that people won't buy the product under any circumstances. Like, if they released Modern decks that each had one fetch land for each of the colors the deck needs, triomes as needed, hits like Karn the Great Creator, etc., people would buy them just for the secondary value. I know I would. (That too is a problem because it'd mean the price would go up just for that, but that's at least a success by a lot of metrics, and I think their reasoning on this topic is just so myopic - I think they should be far more generous with reprints than they are). Yes, you now won't get into Modern, but they have to take a chance that you would a) buy the product at all (pretty clearly you would but marketers can't always take that at face value) and b) *stayed around in Modern long enough to justify them selling additional product worth the risk in the first place* . That's far from a clear value proposition, especially since the reality is that something like Modern *does* require changing and continued investment. People can say that they just play jank with their friends and don't always meta-optimize, but in my experience that's not wholly true: When someone gets run over by a deck, they tend to want to improve the deck, and for some people if they can't do so on a budget they'll just change format. And, of course, the whole discussion of "selling at a loss" is moronic (and of course you allude to this correctly). This is fucking cardboard. Even with packaging, they're always making money. I think they could quite easily make money off of $25-40. Even at 25 cents a card counting packaging and everything else, they can afford it, and we know from the Pioneer Challenger decks that they can economically sell them for around $30. I do still think that it's likely from their perspective that taking a risk on a straight up loss leader would be inadvisable, but it's straightforward nonsense to say that they couldn't take some of their existing MH3 print run and some Modern staples and make some decks. So, yeah, they should have made an inexpensive set of Modern decks to onboard people onto the format, with some play advice from players and with some suggestions for play. I could totally see a Jund deck that has the relevant line of Goyfs, Lili, etc. and a Jund triome, just to signpost new players.

[@tomhowell8398]

The decks would sell better if they did what they were supposed to. They'd only be heavily marked up if that improved value made them an outlier. If the same standard for value was applied across the product line, the secondary market value of the cards that belong in modern decks would be lower. As it is, Wizards seems to have made modern so inaccessible that they've essentially had to replace it in about eleven different ways at this point.

[@fredericchristie3472]

@@tomhowell8398 Again: You're probably right, but that's not what their sales data are telling them, apparently. That having been said, the Pioneer decks supposedly sold well enough, and WotC's modern cynicality as a result of needing to be a flagship project makes it hard to take them seriously on these fronts. And I can see the challenge from their perspective. And, frankly, I think Modern is inaccessible not just from MH1 and 2 and pushed new design but also just powerful old cards. It's definitely more accessible than Legacy and Vintage... but, well, screw the Reserved List.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Hear hear!

[@trevorr994]

"I want a banana this big!" But yeah, magic design has kinda sucked for a while, and modern horizons has forced legacy format rotations since the inception of the product. Also, pretty sure that commander symbol is supposed to be a callback to the Eldritch Moon set symbol. But could be wrong on that one.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh, yeah I can see that. I did wonder why Liliana was featured. Emrakul escaping makes sense. But also I thought the cards from this set were non-canon anyway so... I dunno

[@trevorr994]

@@RedBobcatGames Well, the saddest part about is, I'm sure that this is more thought put into this than anyone at Wotc did.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ha, yeah :(

[@collardcow4183]

Hi, real modern player here to complain ad nauseam. My biggest complaint is honestly those darn commander precons. I’ve been saying for YEARS that they need to bring back starter decks (precons for non-commander formats), especially for modern specifically where the price of entry is often $1,000+. It’s TOO MUCH COMMANDER. Like, we get it, it’s your pet project, now can you please print something with us competitives in mind? Can you lower the price of entry to one of your (historically) best formats so I can see other people at LGS tournaments? It’s the most frustrating part of this set for me, unequivocally. ESPECIALLY when you factor in MaRo saying “players wouldn’t pay what it takes for a modern precon”. It’s a not-so-cleverly disguised way to say “we won’t sell powerful format staples at reasonable prices, because line must go up and you competitive weenies will buy it anyway”. Just ridiculous, the whole thing. Next, let’s talk about set design. It’s not a terribly designed set, but it isn’t great either. I love limited, it’s my favorite way to play magic. I’m at my LGS weekly, always to draft the newest set (or sometimes chaos draft whatever bulk they have lying about, which is dope af I highly recommend). Now this set was designed around 3 specific themes: Eldrazi, Flip-walkers (think Tamiyo, Ajani, Sorin, etc.), and energy. Two of the three are generally considered to be “parasitic” mechanics by cube designers (Eldrazi and energy), and the flip-walkers aren’t really a mechanic as much as they are a feature. I personally never liked Eldrazi, and this set won’t change that. In fact, these new Eldrazi really subtract from the novelty that made their original appearance awesome for a lot of players. So, Eldrazi bad. I think they handled energy well in this set actually. They printed multiple cards that use energy and are generically good, making the mechanic less parasitic as a whole. 1 point for WotC. But these mechanics are bad in one limited set, because they are SO VERY COMPLICATED. These mechanics worked originally in Kaladesh and Zendikar because they were the most complicated mechanics in their respective sets, and newer drafters could just play with very regular/basic/easy mechanics instead, they weren’t forced to pick between multiple difficult mechanics. Last week I missed the draft at my LGS (thanks Spence lol) but showed up late anyway to hang out with my friends, dad, and brother. When I got there, my brother asked me to help coach a newer player thru the games. So I helped her, but she wasn’t even playing the right color lands. And the complicated af mechanics did her no favors. She was so confused and overwhelmed the whole time that she left early. And I felt really bad for her, because her friends had told her this was the coolest set ever, only for her to have to deal with not understanding what the heck was even going on. It’s all too much for one set. Beyond that, let’s finally talk about modern and the damage this will do to non-rotating formats. Modern has been bad for a while (because without cards ever leaving the format, it was always doomed to be mired down in overpowered garbage eventually) but it’s been at its worst since MH2. Modern Horizons 2 really killed the format, printing all sorts of cards that are still relevant and powerful today, years later. Ragavan is too strong, but so is grief. And Solitude. And so much more. But this set spits on the grave of modern with even more stupid designs like Nadu/Phlage/Psychic Frog. WotC wants so desperately for modern to be fun again, but fundamentally misunderstands why it stopped being fun. They think we want to play stronger cards, but what we really want is better gameplay and lower prices. It’s just another example of WotC killing something cool (and profitable) long term so they can reap rewards in the short term. This set is not the worst thing to happen to Magic: the Gathering, but it’s definitely a negative impact on the game as a whole. It is a product that is emblematic of all the game’s issues in the present-day: High prices even I can’t rationalize, power-crept cards to force players to buy in or not play, jokes in place of substance, unfriendly to new and casual players alike, and it’s all really built for commander isn’t it? It just sucks that a greedy corporation is so dead-set on killing this thing that we love in the name of money, and all we can do is watch with mild anger. TLDR: This set really f***in SUCKS.

[@RedBobcatGames]

That part especially about the new player sucks the most. I hope she comes back at some point. Also, thank you for the comment. As a non-modern player I felt I was taking a bit of a gamble complaining on people's behalfs about things I wasn't sure I fully comprehended. (It's why I asked for feedback like yours). Nice to know I wasn't totally off the mark. Thank you

[@scorpiosystem8082]

i love commander and pauper horizons, wish they'd make modern fun and accessible again

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I'd have loved to get into the format

[@thestarscape2446]

Mr. Red please consider: they did you the favour of not letting you start playing modern by not making pre constructed modern decks. they’ve saved you so much trouble.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well, that is potentially true. But I don't get to know either way because apparently I'm too poor to play

[@firechickenmascot]

Definitely think that the modern complaints about the secondary market and Arena's influence are totally valid. The "punny" nature is fine to me, but I understand how it can become slowly grating. Personally, I think the more serious cards are forgotten or taken for granted while the humorous ones get remembered. If it's not a pun, it's probably a Legendary at this point. The one thing that I wholly disagree with is the lore portion regarding Six. Modern Horizons/Masters (from what I understand) exists outside of the normal lore and story, which is how you can get things like Lazotep Sliver and Ulalek. Six has fun design space as a Plant or Forest, but they're giving fanservice in a set that can experiment with what-ifs.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Do you know what, Lazotep Sliver is the example card that I bring up when I talk about how much it annoys me that they print these non-canon what if cards in black border. Just make them silver border and I'd have no issue at all!

[@ccthe17th59]

Damn my guy has replied to EVERY comment, props. (Liked the video)

[@RedBobcatGames]

So tempted not to reply to this! But like a tree falling in the woods, would the joke even be funny if the comedy hinges on me not writing anything?

[@ccthe17th59]

@@RedBobcatGames Truer words have never been said

[@PUDRETE919]

Commander also has the great advantage of only needing one of a card, I have pulled several strong cards from boosters/boxes, but rarely more than 2 of a card, now needing a play set means I'd have to spend another box worth of money to complete the set OR I have 2 strong pieces for 2 different decks

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, in fairness I hadn't thought about the size of the set also being an indicator that it's for Commander, but you are right

[@PUDRETE919]

@@RedBobcatGames I was more thinking along the line of ease of access to the format; I have build quality commander decks for less than the current cost of a Tarmogoyf at my LGS (~17€) and the price of a playset of Goyfs allows for a nice precon with loads of quality upgrades; whereas Goldfish lists the cheaper Modern decks at 360-390$

[@RedBobcatGames]

Jeeze. Well that's why they don't want to print Modern precons. They're looking at all that secondary market money!

[@PUDRETE919]

I absolutely agree, reprinting the fetches was one of the big selling points for MH2, they wouldn't waste that kind of reprint equity on a precon; I think the reception of the Pioneer Challenger decks in 2021(?) turned WotC away from precon that need to serve a meta, it was quite telling on how divided a uniform seeming group can actually be

[@peternaylor7341]

Howdy! I saw this video a few days back, and a bunch of thoughts have been living in my brain rent free since then and I feel the need to share them; I am an avid modern lover and have been since I got into Magic years ago, and I have some mixed feelings about some of the points you make. Pretty much everything from 6:31 onwards (the "Super Juiced" section) I agree with, with in particular it being an incredibly deep frustration of mine that sets like MH3 can feel more like a new Commander Legends set than a dedicated modern/+ set, and the fact they're once again choosing to print new Commander decks instead of trying to bring back something like a Modern Challenger deck absolutely bums me out; I really wish modern felt and was affordable to get into without needing to sink potentially thousands of dollars and years of play into. Also my god! You're right! Whenever MH sets drop they uproot the format and suddenly the decks I've spent hundreds of dollars on are suddenly barely playable! Aaaah! (Phoenix died for Hogaak's sins and I'll be seeing the Evoke elementals in hell.) With that being said! I do take issue with some of the early points you made at the very start from the first "Now a criticism" section where the arguments can feel almost bad faith and frustrating the listen to. Comparing the cards like Psychic Frog and Psychatog, Mogg Mob and Mogg Fanatic, Serum Visionary and Serum Visions, etc. and lambasting those for being references to older cards saying "Why are so many cards based on one*? (*based on a joke)" is missing the forest for the trees. Modern Horizons as a set is inherently a callback/reference set, where a unifying theme in all three sets is taking old cards, giving them a fresh coat of paint/body. (MH1 having cards like Cabal Therapist and Ranger-Captain of Eos and MH2 having cards like Thought Monitor and Ignoble Hierarch to name some) With this I want to note that I don't think you're wrong to be calling out magic set design for not taking itself or the IP seriously, but I also do think you're barking up the wrong tree raising this against Modern Horizons specifically. Modern Horizons is exactly what it should be and what it always has been: a mostly narrative-less mishmash set of references and a celebration of old icons and archetypes, trying to be revitalized through fresh designs and powerful cardboard to keep up with constant power creep - and for that I don't think it should be held to the same standards, because it was designed to be something different. The fact it's no longer something different and the references and humor from other sets are now encroaching on it? Now that's a completely different story and I don't know how I feel about it...

[@RedBobcatGames]

I actually totally agree with you. I can tell I'm being grumpy here. It's just I think this set was the straw that broke my back. Trying actively ignore all the references in the last... like 8 sets has taken a toll, and then seeing a set full of nothing but broke me. I understand this is the place for them, but I'm so sick of them. If this set were the exception I would celebrate it I think. So yeah, in short you're right

[@Xhadp]

Re:Set symbols, this is something that I hate now. Because of the intricate linework it become harder to use the small set symbol to determine rarity on more recent sets. There are some exceptions but it still something I check for more often than not. And the naming. Yeah. Don't change what is broken. There are a dozen ways to point out what's wrong with the naming convention of well, everything with this set.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Is Liliana even in the set? It's weird that she's the set symbol

[@PhoenicopterusR]

God, I miss when WotC wasn't chained to a wall in Hasbro's dungeon.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Me too friend

[@zaphodbeebs2486]

Land bases are the big cost sink for most modern decks. And they don't want to price reduce for lands.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, which is a shame because now people like me won't be playing at all

[@zaphodbeebs2486]

@@RedBobcatGames Me either. I think lands should be the cheap part of magic cuz that's the tool to play the game

[@RedBobcatGames]

Agreed!

[@zaphodbeebs2486]

I've come to the conclusion that if wotz can proxy so can i. Sure I won't bring them to tournaments (unless I have the real cards), but I'll play with them at stores and semi-casual games.

[@Trogdorbad]

Fascinating to hear them actively discuss how Arena dictates paper design. I'm still extremely pissed off about when they changed how Training Grounds works because of it getting added to Arena and needing to match in paper due to it now being Pioneer legal. The change would be a lot less of a problem...if they hadn't just printed Dynaheir - a commander who cares about how much mana you pay for activated abilities - just the year prior. I tracked down an original copy so I could more easily rule 0 it to function as originally intended, but that change still sucked just about all desire I had to make that deck out of me.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I'm out of the loop here, I avoid Arena for exactly this sort of thing. What did they do to Training Grounds?

[@dabe03]

Hey, nice video, i've just noticed you responde to every comment, or almost all, so i have a magic doubt that maybe you can resolve, if you attack with a creature atached with "knife" (MKM) that gives your creature first strike, after first strike damage can you sacrifice the equipment to its ability and does this make your creature now attack a second time for normal damage step?

[@RedBobcatGames]

Now I am no judge. But from what I understand of First Strike, it only allows you to hit once. Even if you remove the First Strike by any means, it's technically already had its attack and won't attack again unless it has Double Strike. I cannot believe that you have used the fact I answer every comment to ask a rules question. I cannot believe I have answered it. Oh no, I hope this isn't the start of something haha

[@ChibiRuah]

they idea of making a compliment sandwich for some reason made me think of mtgremy "which card i love best" video where he ends with a random thing he "hates". Outside of that, i feel the struggle in this video not to just make it "new set bad" but i kind of agree with most of the points on big miss steps by Wotc. It does feel like part of the reason people dont play modern is the modern set is design for Commander. That sort of make sense in short term business, but i feel long term is worse (but i dont work in running big TCGS)

[@RedBobcatGames]

I do get the odd "Why are all of your videos negative" comments. But I mean... look at what I'm working with, you know?

[@rain4825]

here's a bit of trivia for your compliment sandwitch: lili's hair ornament she stole from the archangel of tithes, as seen on the card "unholy hunger"

[@RedBobcatGames]

I knew that. There's been a big debate in the community over whether that was set on Dominaria or Innistrad, but I'm here to say it's Dominaria without a doubt

[@rain4825]

@@RedBobcatGames I'd say Innistrad myself, the architecture on unholy hunger looks more innistradian than dominarian, and there are overall more angels on innistrad. To find them on dominaria you'd have to seek them specifically and I doubt Lili would do that. Besides, her double faced card in origins show the newly ignited planeswalker on the new plane, and she has the ornament here. As she wasn't nearly as proficient a necromancer before her spark ignited and she learned more on innistrad, I don't see her killing angels before that. Also, before becoming a planeswalker she was seen as a young noble lady, and a healer at that. Nothing that would garner the wrong kind of attention from angels.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I know, I know, I know. Trust me, I want it to be Innistrad too because I'd love to put those cards in my Innistrad themed decks. But it's Dominaria. Which reminds me, I did one video in my "Is It Innistrad" series and really need to get back to it for cards like this

[@rain4825]

@@RedBobcatGames Seems like your mind is set. But then, what about "tainted remedy"? she doesn't have the piece on the card illustration, and the events depicted directly resulted in her spark igniting, sending her to inistrad. She didn't come back to dominaria for a while after that either.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I know, and I agree. But you'll just have to trust me for now, there's too much to go into in a comment. I'll add it to my list of videos to make going over it

[@shakyrob6512]

Yeah they only make packs to sell to people to draft or to take advantage of edh players that don't buy sungles. They don't give a damn about any of the other formats. The only reason they care about edh is because they sell the 100 card bricks for two or three times the price that they used to sell the OG 60 card decks back in the day. Decks a lot of people only buy for a few cards they contain not for the actual precon decks. Todays wotc sucks.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I mean I hate to agree, I love this game but you may be right. My instinct is to point the finger at Hasbro, but they're basically one and the same so even that doesn't make me feel better

[@gatesofnocturne3700]

@@RedBobcatGames I definitely have... concerns, about Mark Rosewater, several of which are directly linked to his responses you went over in this video. If WotC separates from Hasbro but MaRo is still involved, I honestly don't really see a lot changing when he's out here defending the worst practices of current MtG

[@cheesi]

@@gatesofnocturne3700 Yeah usually when I hear him talk about business stuff I'm disappointed :/ lots of great design insights but man I hope he's just toeing the company line rather than actually believing all the stuff he says sometimes

[@curtin1107]

@@gatesofnocturne3700 idk i personally don't see how Maro is to blame for any of this. He's very much a designer first, and he's open about what he does at the company with his blog and podcast. Which means he's a convenient mouthpiece and defender for the company - so of course all terrible WOTC defenses are going to have to come from him. It's like how Tolarian Community College enthusiastically revealed the Fetchland secret lair and had to pretend to like it (if only for that announcement video), except unlike MaRo he's not obliged to defend WOTC outside of specific collaborations, and so TCC was able get serious and push back in a follow up video. If you disagree with what your company does but you've got a huge social media presence, I think you're contractually obligated to at least not disparage the company - and it's not unlikely that with Blogatog MaRo might be legit obliged to actively defend the company as well. --- Not to say MaRo isn't responsible for some terrible cards and has some weird opinions about design, or that I think he's necessarily the best for the job (I don't know if there's anyone better, but more because Mark is just so vocal while nobody else - okay, one other designer - is). But it's clear from his Drive-to-Work and his Blogatog and his job (which is 'head designer', not 'big finance-person' or whatever) that his passion is designing cards, and I really doubt that he's actually responsible for any business decisions. At worst you can blame him for not pushing back.

[@smallmailman3992]

Ah yes, commander masters 2.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Pretty much!

[@kwagmeijer26]

the collector eldrazi cards aren't the exact same, just using the same art. the frame isn't overlaying the full art ones. (obviously still dumb, but just correcting a bit of a misunderstanding).

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah fair enough. They didn't show pictures in their post which now thinking on it would probably have been useful

[@burntowl2594]

I'm a bit confused as to why designing around arena is such a big deal. It seems like a reasonable element of a coordinated design team, and that w/out it there would be significantly more work for the programmers for not signficant gains. the way they worded it sounded less like complete redesigns and more like rewordings.

[@RedBobcatGames]

The issue is we've been seeing complextity creep in the game for a long time. They've recently removed the words "The Battlefield" from "Enter The Battlefield" effects just so they can cram more words onto cards. In this video I also touched on the fact that reminder text is now being left off of keywords. These aren't issues in a digital client, because the computer will do the work for you. And while Magic has a digital client, it isn't a digital game. Arena provides direct access to the players for WotC, and it would appear it's started to skew their perception of the game and the way it's played. Deisigning physical game pieces without consideration for physical game play is going to lead to a worse experience over all. Does the Arena team getting a say in how cards are designed end the world? No. Does it make a game I enjoy worse? Yes, I believe we've been seeing evidence of that for some time

[@johanandersson8252]

You forgot the salt for the sandwich 🥪

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh I don't know. Feels like there was plenty of salt in this video!

[@johanandersson8252]

@@RedBobcatGames🤭

[@crimerslimer]

y'know, if players want a non-rotating format that isn't periodically revamped with new cards aimed specifically at it, they could play cube instead

[@RedBobcatGames]

Until it picks up, and then Cube Masters somehow becomes a thing