A Modular Approach to LiFePO4 Batteries

This box doesn't include a battery but is compatible with all of my batteries.
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[@cosmicosmofour6883]

Great idea. You could also do sort of a hybrid approach. Build the box with a smaller battery inside (8-12 Ah maybe) and also an external battery port, with a beefy DPDT switch to switch between the two batteries. Then when you only need a small battery, you are carrying just 1 item so you get the simplicity advantage of a non-modular approach, but when you need a large battery, you have the advantages of the modular approach, and the only disadvantage is the dead weight of the small battery that you aren't necessarily using, which if you're carrying a 100 Ah battery around, you probably won't groan too much about.

[@503Nick]

Smart. I’ve thought battery boxes and “solar generators” were silly. But the power distribution system is where it’s at

[@TheHamRadioHoser]

Love the video Jason, but can we all just take a minute and appreciate the aesthetics of your kitchen. It’s pretty awesome. I can tell your wife puts a lot of love and care into it!

[@KM4ACK]

My wife loved this comment. Thanks for making her day :-) She indeed puts a ton of work into the kitchen.

[@TheHamRadioHoser]

@@KM4ACKI can tell an awesome kitchen when I see one, eating is my favourite activity of the day 😂

[@jasonbroom7147]

Cool build. I would get out my label maker to make it clear which PP input is for solar and which is for AC charging. I'd also label the outputs with a suggested amp limit, like 10-15 amps, and put a "40-amp total" above them. It's worth mentioning that Licitti liked this idea so much, they started making a DC power distribution box years ago, but they based theirs on the more capable 50-amp Anderson style connectors. They also included QC 3.0 and Type C USB outputs, plus the ability to "daisy-chain" through the box to a smallish AC inverter. It doesn't include any kind of charging options, however.

[@Scout75PortableRadio]

Great idea, Jason! And perfect timing for me to see this video. I now need to reshoot the ending of a video I've been working on. The current ending shows a used Apache 1800 that I need to find a new use for. Thanks to you I found one!

[@mikerosenberg7726]

That is a seriously great idea. Thank you for your contributions to the ham radio community.

[@KI7JOM]

FINALLY! Someone that knows how to use a step drill: slower for deeper. Jason, I know some electricians you can demonstrate this to!

[@KM4ACK]

😀

[@TungstenAmp]

I really like this concept. Great video, and thank you for avoiding clickbait unlike so many others.

[@toddshook1765]

Great idea for distribution box. Love it. Thanks for sharing tips.

[@Zach-K7FC]

This is a great idea. This would increase use potential. Thanks.

[@junkerzn7312]

I'm gonna try to lure you over to using metal boxes and a punch kit. When I first started messing with solar and LiFePO4 I used a lot of plastic boxes, but eventually I came to the conclusion that they weren't really very protective in case of an electronics failure so I switched over the powder-coated steel boxes. And I began using a hydraulic knockout punch kit to make holes. I wound up getting a cheap VEVOR Hydaulic knockout punch kit and, wow, it really makes nice holes in just about anything! VEVOR also distributes nice steel boxes in all sizes and shapes. The other problem that you are already beginning to hit comes in the form of amperages and cabling. Now don't get me wrong, 12V (well, 12.8V LiFepO4) does have its place. But once one starts scaling the power up 12V gets old really fast and 24V and 48V get really useful. The most I generally ever want to put through 10 AWG cabling is 20A. Just because I really don't like cables getting too warm and causing thermal expansion and contraction stress on terminals (etc). At 12V 20A is nominally just 250W. At 24V 20A is 500W, and at 48V (51.2V really)... it's over 1000W. With 10 AWG cabling. And for battery banks, 2 AWG cabling is only 1250W @ 100A at 12V... but it's 2500W at 24V and 5000W at 48V. Again, not wanting the cabling to ever get more than warm. Of course, for limited purpose 12V HAM gear one might want to just stick with 12V for convenience anyway, at least to a point. Still, for more general inverter and solar interfacing you run into problems very quickly with 12V systems. LiFePO4 batteries are made not only 12.8V, but also in 25.6V and 51.2V varieties, as standard. 24V is a nice sweet spot for intermediate applications. You get double the power for the same cabling and you can still use typical 32V rated fuses for a lot of things. -- One last thing. The interrupt rating for auto fuses is really poor. They are ok for distribution boxes as long as main fusing going into the box limits the amperage, but should never be used for main fuses. For main battery connections you really need to be looking at MRBF or ANL fuses. And anything 30A or lower you can use 10x38mm ceramic (solar) fuses. A very reliable fuse... far more reliable than anything outside of T-class fuses (but amperage-limited due to the form factor). -Matt

[@matsherwood6277]

I really like this concept! Keeps the weight and bulk down and saves cost. Great work!

[@dougdaniels]

Great approach Jason. I've been building modular cases, but with a battery in each. I like this idea much better.

[@1kzrider]

So I have been messing with small solar stuff for long time. I started out with the HF 45 watt 3 panel kit with PWM Controller box and CFL bulbs. I long since scrapped the panels and keep all the controller boxes. As I use for the PWM controller box. Gen 1 come with 1 USB port and 1 Cig Lighter Port. The later versions had a extra Inverter port. Really making what lot of us refer to know as a power distribution box. I do just what you doing here. I can plug in inverter and keep upgrading cig port USB Multiplugs. This way I can keep upgrading the USB to cig lighter plug accessories. I been using these for over 10yrs now. So I couldn't agree more with your portable solution here even taking it to new generation. I just don't use the solar PWM on controller. I use Victron is all my setups now.

[@michaelkempf982]

FYI Fusing. Hope this helps as I spent a lot of time trying to understand fusing as I upgraded most wiring and components in an RV. 1. Fusing is sized to protect the wiring, not the device. Size the fuse to the wire size used. 2. Chose the wire size based on the amp draw of the device that will be in that wire circuit. 3. The fuse does NOT control the device draw. It will in the sense that if your device has a variable draw, a 10 amp fuse for a device that draws 5-15 amp should blow above 10 amp. But that is not the purpose of the fuse. You must use wire size in this example to handle 15 amp, so use 15 amp fuse.

[@Wayde-VA3NCA]

re 1: , the fusing protects the supply, including the wiring and the source. It should be sized to blow before the battery and wiring harness is overloaded... If , for example, you short the leads, the fuse should blow before the source or wiring melts or otherwise sustain damage

[@KM4ACK]

Let me start by admitting I have no electrical background. When considering design I assumed no more than 2 HF rigs connected to the box running 100W in SSB. Neither should draw 20A under this circumstance. After referencing a wire chart, I determined that 10 gauge wire would handle 40A assuming the wire was no longer than 6 feet long and based my decision of a 40A fuse on that information. If this is wrong, someone please point me to documentation. 99% of the time, I expect no more than one HF rig and a few items like laptops or phones will be connected at the same time.

[@KeepEvery1Guessing]

If you put an inline fuse in the pigtail that you're keeping attached to each battery, as opposed to in the pigtail to box jumper, the fuse could be sized appropriately for the battery.

[@nivid01]

The jumper cable (pig tail) DOES HAVE a water proof inline fuse! Rewind and you will see it!

[@KM4ACK]

I think he's referring to the pigtail on each battery. It would be a good idea to put one on each battery pigtail sized for the individual battery instead of the jumper wire that connects the battery to the distribution box.

[@junkerzn7312]

On the anderson connectors, there are three form factors for the housing that are very commonly used (and larger ones beyond that). There is the 30A housing, the 50A housing, and the 175W housing. I use all three form factors myself. The little 30A power poles are great for up to 30A or so. These little power poles... the ones you are using in your box, have three different types of lugs for 10, 12, and 14 AWG wiring, and generally they are crimp lugs. These are marketed as 30A, 35A, 40A, and 45A but the housing and the lugs are only ACTUALLY rated for 30A. The marketing material exaggerates. And of course you are limited by the contact lug you use in the housing. With 10 AWG wiring I usually don't put 20A through these but I feel fairly comfortable with up to 30A with some care. But no more than that. Usually my nominal is 20A and I fuse for 30A with 10 AWG cabling. -- The SB50's are the best middling power pole size. They use solder lugs instead of crimps which makes for an incredibly good connection... but the lugs have a lot of mass so you have to use a butane torch to really get them hot enough to put the wire in and fill it all with solder. Still, the SB50 form factor is an incredibly versitile form factor. You can get lugs for 6 AWG through 10 AWG, typically. I think SB50 housing is far more useful than the smaller 30A housings. It is still reasonably small but has the over-engineering necessary for safe, reliable operation. -- And the SB175's are awesome for battery bank quick disconnects / emergency disconnects. 2 AWG and thicker. I typically use them with 2 AWG cabling since I run higher-voltage battery banks. -Matt

[@davidnelson6889]

I love this idea. I think you just stumbled on the next great ham radio idea. A power distribution system that can be teamed up with any battery. It looks like the only thing it is missing is a small inverter. I’ve have looked at the various power generators and those always seem over priced for the size of battery they contain. This is going to be my next project for sure. 73 W1UTE

[@ronlongwellphoto]

Genius! And just in time as I'm about to build/rebuild my battery box. Thanks, Jason!

[@RatchetFWD]

Off to the harbor freight . I ended up using 3800 case for my solder station, ham connectors, and tools. 😅 Got a 100ah ,50ah,10ah . This will be perfect modular setup! Thanks Jason

[@RatchetFWD]

Update : Back from the harbor freight . Lol

[@KM4ACK]

😂

[@DrivinwithJoe]

I'm behind on your videos. But I was laying in bed last night thinking about this very thing. Thank you.

[@robertmeyer4744]

Great idea ! i have made something like that but for my needs. Several USB PD 65 watt ports. A PD 100 watt ports . A few 12V assery lighter ports. different anderson Connectors, like the SB 50 and PP 75 . I went with SB 175 amp in connector. And I ,mounted LED lights on it. Seval meters. Amps and volts. Even a 300 watt true sine wave inverter mounted inside. Works for my camping needs . Just build to what's your needs are. I have lots of LiFePO4 now as well. I put big SB 350 connector on 300 AH for my inverter . 2KW . 73

[@Sylvan_dB]

I built something similar. I used an inexpensive junction/project box but that little apache case looks nice! I also did not include the solar charge controller (seems like a good idea for an add-on module). I did include a 100 watt bidirectional USB-C adapter (can also charge the battery) and a 12v buck/boost regulated 10amp output to a few 5.5x2.1mm coaxial jacks. I need to add some switches for the USB and 12v buck/boost and might also add a light. I used an Anderson SB50 for the input, unfused to the bus terminals on the fuse block but I can easily use one of the powerpole connections for input if desired. I find I need higher amperage connections than ideal over the 15/30/45 powerpoles. I standardized on the SB50 for "moderate amperage" (can easily support 50-75 amps continuous if wired with #6, and surge higher with no problem). I install the SB50 on all 50ah and larger batteries and some smaller, and an SB120 for higher current on 100ah+ batteries. I also have made some SB120 to 2x SB50 adapters, and SB50 to 3x powerpole.

[@bwillan]

That is a very interesting approach to doing battery boxes. The Go Box I made for my VHF/UHF mobile radio has some power distribution ports (USB chargers, 12V socket, battery charger etc.) No need to duplicate work you've already done.

[@nivid01]

Good job mate and great idea.... and well implemented!

[@Jeff_369]

This is a great idea. I have yet to build one, but this approach really is interesting to me. Thank you!

[@pilotguyo540]

This is the right way to go, I think. I hesitated on building a battery box because it gets so bulky so fast.

[@Modern_Warrior_School]

Very interesting. I'm about to buy my first LiFePo4 battery this paycheck, so this video is perfectly timed.

[@faulersack5364]

73 aus Deutschland... und ein gesundes Jahr25... lg andy...

[@MegaChiliMac]

Nice build. Also, nice bit of ham ASMR footage post-credits. ;)

[@dougdukes1039]

Great video. But one reason I use a box is that it makes carrying a smaller battery easier because it puts a handle on the battery.

[@Liberty4Ever]

I just bought an Apache 1800 waterproof case to use as a handlebar mounted glove box on my little adventure motorcycle. It's a little larger than I wanted, but the Pelican 1060 case it replaces was a little too small. How long did it take you to peel the sticker off that Harbor Fright case? I got smart and warmed that label and it peeled off without shredding and leaving goo everywhere, but there are sticker complaints for that product on the Harbor Fright website. I'm glad to see you 3D printing stuff. I just bought my 12th 3D printer. It sat in the box for a month while I cleaned enough of my office to make a place for the beast (350 mm cube build volume) but it's currently printing DVD shelves so I can get that clutter off my messy desk and onto the walls. I've made a few of those LIFePO4 battery boxes. I often use plastic ammo cases if they don't need to be Pelican rugged and waterproof. Ammo is heavy so the plastic ammo cases are built tough enough to house a battery. I use a DC-DC converter on the input as a low cost solar charge controller, for fully charged voltage charge termination. I can get away with that by sizing the solar panel and/or the DC-DC voltage converter to limit the charge current to an inherently safe level for charging the battery. The input connector or cable from the solar panel has a three position Power Pole connector with the center unused, to prevent me from accidentally plugging a radio into the solar charging port of the battery box. The entire radio stack in my shack is exclusively powered by a small solar panel and one of these battery boxes that is under my office desk, so my shack is off grid. I put a switched USB charging port with digital voltage display on the battery box in case we need to charge devices when the power goes out. Maybe put an inline automotive style fuse of the appropriate amperage in the positive lead on each of the batteries rather than a 40A fuse on the 10 AWG battery cable. Carrying a battery outside of a battery box is risky business. LiFePO4 batteries have low internal resistance. A 100 WHr lithium battery can probably source 1000 amps or more for a few seconds and something will ignite. Please fabricate something to prevent those battery terminals from shorting in transit.

[@Sylvan_dB]

good point about protecting the terminals. A piece of kapton over the terminals is a pretty good solution, but can be perforated. A small project box can be easily modifed to cover the terminal and taped in place (with kapton tape 😁) if you don't want to 3D print something. A LiFePO4 can typically deliver at least 100x its Ah rating into a short. The BMS will in most cases shut off the overload current, but... Battery terminal fuses are a good fuse choice (MRBF - Marine Rated Battery Fuse or the non-marine equivalent). The typical automotive blade fuse IC rating is only 1000amp, insufficient for even 50ah LiFePO4 if the FETs on the BMS fail.

[@Liberty4Ever]

@@Sylvan_dB - If you've ever seen a wrench dropped across the terminals of a car battery, or the terminals of a large LiFePO4 battery instantly weld the battery to the steel frame of a poorly designed battery box, you will gain a respect for the insanely unsafe short circuit current these batteries can deliver... particularly the big lithium batteries. As a teenager, my ham mentor was a friend's dad, who wired houses. He returned a Craftsman screwdriver to Sears. All he had was the handle with a charred melted stub of steel, and the scorched melted tip. The Sears tool guy returned with a new screwdriver, and my friend's dad told him that it wasn't the regular screwdriver. It was the foot long electrician's screwdriver. Apparently, ten inches of the steel shaft was instantly converted to iron and carbon vapor and explosive weld spatter when he was wiring an electrical panel and inadvertently connected it to 240 VAC with a *LOT* of instantaneous current. The Sears tool guy returned with the longer screwdriver. If I was the Sears tool guy, I'd have said, "Underwear is in aisle three."

[@Sylvan_dB]

@@Liberty4Ever I have. The car battery exploded in the 30seconds or so before a hammer could be retrieved to knock the wrench off the battery terminal. I believe that was the last time that guy forgot to first disconnect the negative.

[@RynardMooreVstar1]

Cool stuff. BTW, I see I'm not the only one who shops at Harbor Freight looking for stuff that can be used for HAM purposes. I saw that very same box at HF and it was like "hummmmm -- that looks like that would be handy for..." LOL and 73's.

[@robslagle]

very interesting approach, I'm looking forward to more videos with your use and review

[@daxthedestroyer9061]

I think the only thing its missing is monitoring. I know you could just plug something in inline, but some kind of integrated monitor would be cool.

[@99Jeep2008]

Great idea!

[@BryanDaniel42]

I’ve been thinking about doing the same thing. I think it’s a great idea.

[@forgetyourlife]

The nesting procedure in this hobby is hard to kill.

[@Marty48034]

This. This is the way.

[@Wayde-VA3NCA]

Nice builds Jason! Perhaps for better matching of the battery input fuse to the different batteries, make the fuse holder part of the battery PowerPole harness? I do this with my portable batteries and can even be 3D printed into a top shell that connects onto the battery terminals

[@jeremyllewellyn]

Have a link to share of that?

[@Wayde-VA3NCA]

@jeremyllewellyn I've created a page on Printables ( by Prusa ) , if you look up my callsign VA3NCA , it should come up 🙂Please note that I'm a 3D printing newb and the model is a simple TinkerCAD model... It really should be parametric so that it can be scaled to fit the battery you have... Oh... and, a version someday could be made that fits screw terminal style batteries. This one is only for blade (or SLA-like) style. For the screw type, I just have a wire inline automotive fuse holder in the wire harness out to a PP connector.

[@jeremyllewellyn]

@@Wayde-VA3NCA This is great! Veryy clean.

[@KM4ACK]

Nice!! Here's a link to his project www.printables.com/model/1123526-ecoworthy-8ah-lifepo4-battery-cap-with-anderson-po

[@Firephosure]

Very cool man.

[@hallen4094]

Superb video and well presented as always,again great ideas. Just something to think about to help with the appropriate fuse sizing. Why not put the appropriate sized fuse in the anderson tails you you have attached to each of your batteries. Then each battery is independently protected at a rating suitable to its capacity??. Thank you again Sir for your quality content. Much appreciated and 73's

[@KM4ACK]

Good idea

[@MountainMan7.62x39]

That's a pretty good idea.

[@vidcreator5276]

Brilliant!!

[@chrissewell1608]

If I followed this right ( after having to pause it 97 times! ) this looks pretty universal, and would work great. Except adding ONE MORE BOX OF SHTUFF 🤬 to drag around, everywhere!

[@AD6DMDennis]

I see no problem with hoarding hundreds of batteries, and no one will convince me otherwise!

[@Liberty4Ever]

Sounds like you and Jason have the same addiction. Why is it I never see you guys at the Battery Anonymous meetings?

[@kaboom4679]

@@Liberty4Ever The 13th step is building your own batteries ....

[@KM4ALT]

Instead of fusing the battery jumper, why not install a fuse in each battery pigtail? Fuse size can be battery specific that way and no requirement to remember to swap it.

[@stevenharvey1375]

Have you considered revisiting solar panels and chargers? You refer to lots of them in your videos but I have not found which ones you consider your go to models for your setups.

[@ChrisKD9YSW]

I like and should have done this. Maybe I will build one and just have it for another battery

[@jeremyllewellyn]

Please make a follow up. Looking to build something similar. Do you think you should put a larger fuze like t class somewhere? A car fuze isn't enough to break in case of a short afaik. Either in the box or on the battery?

[@Sylvan_dB]

I use MRBF (Marine Rated Battery Fuse) that mounts directly to the battery terminal stud. Much higher IC and very clean. Can even get dual holders which work well when I put both an SB50 and an SB120 pigtail on a battery.

[@jeremyllewellyn]

@Sylvan_dB this sounds great, will look into this kinda build. any photos?

[@MrTrentCurtis]

Cool idea but it's just another box to keep track of in the mass amount of other boxes! But concept is solid! Also what about loss in the connectors?

[@KM4ACK]

I doubt there is enough loss in the connectors to worry about.

[@radio_0_noise]

Hi. Is it safe to keep them in the home all the time? Can they catch fire?

[@KM4ACK]

LiFePO4 is very safe technology

[@griddowncommsup]

Cool idea. I did similar with solar charge controllers. The Genasun units are more expensive than many batteries now… Any idea if anyone makes the power pole panel mounts with a screw on water proof cap? Keeping water out during transport would be super handy.

[@KM4ACK]

Haven't seen one with a waterproof cap

[@BobBob-il2ku]

Awesome! Only thing is my bioenno AC charger uses a barrel plug maybe I should cut that off & convert it to power poles?

[@KM4ACK]

I convert almost everything radio related to power poles

[@nemonikUTube]

@KM4ACK how much heat does the genasun charge controlled generate? I ask because its manual states, "Allow adequate airflow around the controller." I am guessing being in a box designed to be water tight would not permit this airflow.

[@KM4ACK]

I've used it in enclosed boxes before without issue but would open the top during summer heat to prevent any issues.

[@nemonikUTube]

@KM4ACK, does it generate a lot of heat? What is the wattage of your solar cells? Additionally, it might be beneficial to keep the solar charger, along with its lines and their connectors, as a modular component outside any of these boxes especially a distribution box such as this as it.would allow for further modularity. The controller and its lines to include the positive fused power line to the distribution block and the solar positive inline fuse. Doing so would allow to swap between boxes, similar to how one would the AC battery charger. Yes, one more component to pack and deal with, but doing so also solves the charge controller heat and cost ( they ain't cheap ) problem plus you can also see the charge controller's status light vice it being tucked inside a box.

[@moondogster]

How did you mount the fuse block and solar charge controller to the case?

[@KM4ACK]

Velcro

[@mgoben6499]

I don't feel so bad anymore lol.

[@jerryKB2GCG]

Any chance you will sell those boxes ?

[@KM4ACK]

Not at this time. Don’t have enough hours in the day as is.

[@haxwithaxe]

Only 4?

[@CraigSotelo]

Me over here just hooking up my radio directly to battery for years, no boxes, no nothing,

[@KM4ACK]

If it works, run with it.

[@Tobys-Dad]

10 gauge wire should have 30 amp fuse

[@KM4ACK]

According to the chart I referenced, 10 gauge is capable of 12V & 40A for a cable no longer than 6 feet in length.

[@temporarilyoffline]

You stole my idea...🤣🤣

[@KM4ACK]

Nah, just beat you to it. 😂

[@ericgulseth74]

Typical KZbinr beef!

[@temporarilyoffline]

@@ericgulseth74 Yeah, but in this case we're actually friends... I think...

[@chrissewell1608]

Sorry folks... Bioenno batteries are way over priced!

[@kostric7]

No doubt. Dakota's too

[@KM4ACK]

They haven't kept up with the market

[@Bluescout612]

Great idea Jason although I agree with cosmicomofour6883 to the hybrid approach which was the way I have been planning mine . Keep the videos coming Jim KI7SSO