A Most Loved Baroque Sequence: The Romanesca... and András Schiff getting into trouble

Concept and editing by Michael Koch.
Follow me on PATREON and get a proper sheet of the examples and exercises shown in the video plus additional instructive materials on the matter:
www.patreon.com/posts/romanes...
00:00 Intro
01:43 Romanesca basic tutorial: the two variants
02:32 The leaping variant and its guidelines
03:03 Generating a chain of suspensions
03:33 4-3-9-8-skeleton + embellished bass lines
03:53 Quater notes
04:14 Filling gaps with steps (eighth notes)
04:38 Just eighth notes + broken chords
04:53 Alternativ walking bass + embellished upper voices
05:18 The stepwise variant + two best practice upper voices
06:01 Embellished example of the stepwise variant
06:20 Recommending Nicola Canzanos Channel (Called "ParallelFifths")
06:37 Andras Schiff STUMBLING across the Romanesca (evaluation of a lecture concert demonstration containing two examples by Beethoven)
08:03 Beethoven's scaffoldings and Schiff's "masters narrative"
09:18 Rondeaus by Rameau and F. Couperin
09:36 "Gigue en Rondeau" - Theme by Rameau
10:31 Les Barricades Mystérieuses - Theme by Couperin
10:49 Comparison of both
11:18 "Pantomimic vibes" and my own attempt to write a Rondeau-theme
11:53 My own Rondeau
12:12 Brief explanation of it
12:43 My own attempt of applying the Romanesca to a romantic style
Intro picture "Queen": Lilian Liu / Brina Lyon
Original video with Andras Schiff from the "Masterclass Media Foundation" (have fun):
• Schiff: Similarities I...

[@maxjohn6012]

"Without craftsmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind." -Brahms

[@funicon3689]

"maybe i just dont like smug laughter from sophisticated audiences" unfathomably based. actually this entire channel is amazing. even as a composer for games im learning a lot.

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

Thanks, man 😅😅

[@pablom.5698]

This channel is an absolute gem.

[@JazzGuitarScrapbook]

Great point about the master’s narrative

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

Thank you! I guess the Schiff-section isn't everybody's taste as it's probably controversial... Pheww... But I think this is a central aspect of the video!

[@JazzGuitarScrapbook]

@@en-blanc-et-noir yeah! But then I do get a bit tired of that reverent ‘composer as ineffable genius’ vibe you often get in classical music. In jazz it’s taken as read that Charlie Parker etc were geniuses and giants, but we aren’t coy about the raw materials they used - the licks and progressions and so on. It’s that practicality about making music that interested me in things like Schemata and Partimento (and your great channel.) I can’t see that it’s taking anything away from Beethoven to recognise that he was a skilled artisan rooted in what came before (as well as an artist.)

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

@@JazzGuitarScrapbook Thanks again! exactly! If one looks closely to especially "early works" of composers it's in many cases recognizable that everybody did some sort of borrowing so this seems to be a necessary step in the development of an own taste/style...

[@ADarkandStormyNight]

I absolutely consume videos on these subjects, and I have to say this channel has some of the most useful, informative videos on these subjects. I rewatch them regularly.

[@robertocornacchionialegre]

Nice video! Thanks for posting! A beautiful romanesca in nineteenth century music happens at Chopin Mazurca op. 68 n. 3

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

YESSS very nice example! (BTW: strangest B-section of all, like with the lydian) I listen to it right now! Thanks man! I'll have to take a look. Chopin's actually a Champion of the Romanesca! One could do a whole video just on "Chopin using the Romanesca"! True story...

[@miloszbiedrzycki707]

@@en-blanc-et-noir Lydian flavours are a nod to Polish folk music, one of the sources of inspiration for Chopin. A fitting and respectful reference, in my opinion. BTW, I like your video a lot, thanks!

[@molaso]

great video! thank you so much

[@amusicment4829]

👍🏼great video, thank you

[@nopilow9130]

this is some of the most useful info out there. Thank you for sharing and please make more videos ❤❤

[@brunocecchini433]

Great video, thank you

[@kristiankumpumaki8701]

Great content! Very well researched, well presented and very educational. Thanks!

[@juanmariomonroy2038]

Gracias gran Maestro y Sensei de la composición.🎉😮

[@eltonwild5648]

Great video. Really liked the part where you applied the romanesca to the romantic style

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

thanks so much! My favorite part :D

[@timothyj.bowlby5524]

Understandable, learnable, and able to be adapted/extended/incorporated into one's own writer's voice. Yep.

[@grocheo1]

Thanks for watching? Thank you for making it!

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

:DDD

[@svenrohark4003]

Wahnsinn so einen tiefen Einblick in Musik Hätte das gerne für Barocklaute

[@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy]

I'm also shocked that The Arts and the Hours has now 19 million listens. What in the hell boosted this track so much I wonder.

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

The original piece by Rameau is actually a 10/10. What boosted the piano version..? - probably the yt algo.

[@beaumuse7890]

“Sorry for the messing playing” that’s 99.9999% as precise as a midi playback 😂. Love your videos! Can’t wait for more. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience on these topics which seem to have few and fewer scholars.

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

yo thanks Beau! :DDD I probably won't do another video with harpsichord again (like that on circle of fiths sequences) it's just too tricky to record stuff as there's always little inaccuracies that disturb me. You're too kind really! "seem to have few and fewer scholars" - as somebody from the heart of this tiny nerdy bubble I have to say: actually it's the exact opposite. Partimento a growing community and there's more and more publications, books, essays, conferences, workshops, youtube stuff on it. It probably never will become mainstream due to many reasons but its definitely a growing niche.

[@adatanir]

Toll, vielen Dank!

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

Vielen Dank! Gern geschehen. Ich freue mich, wenn es anderen gut gefällt...

[@neville132bbk]

Genau...von neuseeland.

[@RaptInReverie]

I love your videos ;)

[@m.walther6434]

What fun, thanxalot.

[@uhoh007]

Very excited to see a few channels actually up to date on all the recent revelations. Great job. More please. EG: How can I detect modulations in partimenti?

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

Thank you for visiting the channel and thx for appreciation! :D "recent revelations": actually this is quite established stuff I'd say, you'll find a similar breakdown of the basic Romanesca and its scaffoldings already in a German Eartraining Book by Ulrich Kaiser from 1997 (he calls it "Parallelismus"): www.baerenreiter.com/shop/produkt/details/BVK1159/ The thing is that the english speaking world somehow seems to be exclusively focused on Gjerdingens Book (or let's include Sanguinetti's as well) whilst there is many more on similar topics from German authors (though partly translated to english) that for some reason don't resonate in this part of the world. how to detect modulations: 1) look for accitentals in the bass (especally look out for sharps as these are the leading notes that indicate the local key, 2) a cadence that'll confirm the key digression will probably not be far away so look out for a 5-1. That's probably it...

[@derekgeorgeandrews]

8:52 wow, nailed it!

[@ivarasplund4265]

Good!

[@mathmusicstructure]

I love your videos thanks so much! Do you have a recommended book list somewhere? Having no university education in music I find it hard to look up concepts I discover in music because I don't know the names. Your channel has been great for teaching me the names of ideas and I'd like more!

[@Principles_of_Psychology]

Subscribed immediately after seeing the Batman slapping Robin cartoon…

[@wheelmanmitch]

Sweet 😎

[@Guitarisalways]

Ha‼️ Brilliant... 👌

[@johnrottler4000]

Pachelbel’s Canon’s is another famous one like you said

[@Mazurking]

1:22 I'm gonna get that book. After watching this video, I feel like I will learn more about counterpoint in that book than of any book with 'counterpoint' in its title.

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

It is basically a book establishing a certain type of theory - or let's rather say: establishing a certain perspective on musical structures, that is indeed more horizontal than the mainstream stuff...

[@Archiekunst]

Also Chopin's butterfly etude.

[@cfthompson]

Literally everyone loves the Romanesca... I sure do

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

It's so strange, right?

[@cfthompson]

@@en-blanc-et-noir It has a certain universal feel of leaving home and coming around again. Almost like the seasons. I love when Dvorak uses it in his dances.

[@cfthompson]

Also, it was the Gjerdigan book where I learned about it too and it all made sense!

[@JazzGuitarScrapbook]

‘Relatively attainable for beginners’ - even Oasis….

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

ha! I needed a little on this one but I'm singing along already "And sooooo Sally can wait, she knows it's to late, as we're walking on by ..." - yes - even Oasis...

[@faleru]

What was that all about the masters narrative and masterclasses?

[@spacedoctor5620]

For the stepwise Romanesca: I've been working through the d minor WTC prelude, and in measure 4 I noticed there were a lot of 5 chords over a descending bass. However, rather than each off beat containing a 6-3, it looks like Bach goes for a 9-6-4, and doesn't resolve the suspensions before just moving on to the next 5 chord. Obviously this is """allowed""", but I'm curious if this is a somewhat common dimminution? Maybe I'm looking too much into this and it isn't really a Romanesca? If not, maybe it's just actually descending thirds with 5 chords over them.

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

how about it‘s root chords related by descending thirds connected via passing tones? Although the Romanesca shows properties of this („ falling thirds“) I would hesitate to call this a stepwise Romanesca as a Romanesca would require 6th on the passing tones. Any more questions??😝😝😝

[@spacedoctor5620]

@@en-blanc-et-noir That's what I figured! It definitely felt like I was trying to cram a square piece into a circle hole. Is a descending bass by thirds with 5 chords a standard bass motion? I guess I reached for the romanesca since I haven't come across that motion in my (very brief) foray into this stuff

[@bargledargle7941]

I'm writing too many comments at this point but is that direct motion to a 5th at 2:32 ? Loved the Romanesca at 12:55 ! Both of them (the first one was more clearly a romanesca to my ears, easier for noobz)

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

lol I guess you overdosed Fuxian textbook stuff... those 5ths are standards. BTW: those scaffoldings isn't stuff I invented myself but that rather grew historically over decades - in case of the Romanesca over 300 years and it would be strange if you'd be the first person to find false voiceleading in it haha....

[@bargledargle7941]

@@en-blanc-et-noir Not trying to be a smartass here XD I swear So it's okay to do it in the context of fugue? I am just tryna figure out what are the "rules" to write a fugue so counterpoint professors will not say "This piece is full of mistakes and goes nowhere" like some piece I've written. After getting this criticism from someone who is formally trained it made me want to understand how do I play it safe for next time... (The piece I've shown him is not even a fugue btw)

[@pondreezy]

4:05

[@indradhanush5444]

Sir.. I want to learn... Is their any kind of online class possible.. Plz 🙏

[@Mymusicaldream]

Studierst du Musiktheorie? Falls ja, an welche Hochschule? Sehr cool, dass du die Satzmodelle auch immer praktisch beleuchtest. Ein Schmuckstück in der Welt der leider oft schlecht informierten „Mainstream“ theoriekanäle.

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

Moin, ja ich habe Mth studiert, erst in Detmold und in Essen an der Folkwang den Master gemacht. "schlecht informierter Mainstream" - ist das so? Schön, wenns dir gefällt.

[@hanspeterlillese2225]

Is Monte Romanesca the same as this? 🤔

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

Nope. Romanesca bass line is 4 down / 2 up. Monte Romanesca is 5 up / 4 down. Very different patterns and it is the opinion of many that baptizing it Monte Romanesca was a very bad idea LOL but the damage is already done and the term established (at least in the english speaking world)

[@hanspeterlillese2225]

@@en-blanc-et-noir Ok, thank you for clearing that up. So maybe it's called Monte because it goes up?

[@user-kd7oi8py7k]

Reichweite mag größer sein, in deutscher Sprache wäre fein! Copy Paste mit Übersetzung?

[@en-blanc-et-noir]

wie meinen?