Was this composer BETTER than BACH?!

Unique comparison between two great Baroque classical composers, J.S. Bach and Scarlatti. You can decide who was the better composer.
Featuring David Louie
Produced, Filmed, and Edited by Nahre Sol
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*Correction: the picture at the beginning is not of Domenico Scarlatti, but his father, Alessandro (!)
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#bach #scarlatti #comparison

[@NahreSol]

*Correction: the picture at the beginning is not of Domenico Scarlatti, but his father, Alessandro Scarlatti. I apologize for the error... I was editing this at 4am 😬 (!)

[@imacat8476]

The overlooked Alessandro Scarlatti, the Italian baroque keyboard king. Where you think Domenico got his chops from? kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3jdepqFps1krrs

[@FxRStudios]

Hey @Nahre Sol Please could you tell me what is the name of the piece @7:00 ? Thanks very much

[@jerlatti]

Don't edit at 4 A.M. anymore

[@robertocornacchionialegre]

Btw, Alessandro is amazing, maybe not for keyboard music, but I would say he is even better than his son hahah

[@Bati_]

@@FxRStudios It is presumably Sonata in A major, K. 113 by Scarlatti, hope this helps...

[@TechnoRaabe]

"I've always considered Bach to be a sculpter. If you had to compare, Scarlatti would be a collage artist." Such a legendary comparison.

[@vladimirchicas3148]

Says Handel 🤣 ✨

[@dulcamarabuffo]

I would argue that Bach is the Tapestry maker which weaves myriad Threads into a whole work and Scarlatti is the wood turner who whips out brilliance on his lathe by deftly skating over with his wood chisel.

[@briseboy]

It would seem fishy if he had been a sculpin, but, like Galathea's Pygmalion, he scuplt Her. You could sculpt OR not scuplt, or . . . SPELL. I gulpt, OR, chewed in a refined manner, never being cannibalistic enough to have gulpt her. Being kind i would NEVER pulp her, but PulpThor would be comic indeed. If you have not guessed, SculptOR, though Camille Claudel, who sculpted Rodin's hands for him was not called a sculptrix.

[@ianlowery6014]

1685 was a great year for music. Not only were Bach and Scarlatti born that year, but also George Frederic Handel. 140 years after Bach's death, Gilbert and Sullivan went to the USA. When the boat came into the harbour, all these other boats came out to greet them, with people waving contracts they wanted the pair to sign. At that point they realised they had been pirated, and so they wrote The Pirates of Penzance. An American later wrote to Gilbert and said "I really like the music of your friend Mr. Sullivan, and also the music of Mr. Bach. Tell me, is Mr. Bach still composing?" Gilbert wrote back "... at present, Mr. Bach is not so much composing as decomposing".

[@williambunter3311]

ianlowery: A witty reply from Mr. Gilbert. But Bach wrote music with the intent to glorify God, and I believe he still is composing masterpieces in heaven for the enjoyment of his Saviour and the heavenly hosts.

[@jeffreyadams648]

Thanks so much for that anecdote. I’ll raise yet another cold glass to Bach. Bach to the fridge.

[@ianlowery6014]

@@jeffreyadams648 You'll be Bach in a minuet...

[@picksalot1]

I'm a big fan of Scarlatti. The Spanish and guitar influences are very appealing to me. The use of repeated motifs and dissonant notes in chords makes his music sound like "Pop Baroque" to my ears. I find many enjoyable qualities in his music, to a significant degree because I play guitar.

[@briseboy]

Italians did much for chitarra. Baroque Guitar, though Gaspar Sanz and Santiago de Murcia were the first Baroque pieces introduced to me.

[@marcpatton5207]

Scarlatti has long been my favorite composer. I could be wrong, but I feel like Scarlatti has been getting more and more attention lately. I love it. This was a great video.

[@weiliu7319]

You are not wrong. You get it earlier than most people.

[@DirtyIceCubes]

This is terrific. Your Bachifying skills are astounding.

[@ithinilben4672]

‘Bachifying’ I laughed out loud in a good way

[@birbunleashed]

One of my parents is a classical pianist and I've grown up hearing a lot of pieces without ever really knowing who wrote what, I've most definitely confused Scarlatti for Bach at points :,) This was really helpful in a really surprising way, thank you so much!

[@NahreSol]

Thank you for watching and commenting!!

[@christophmunch4796]

Scarlatti and Bach are un-confusable for anyone who has a bit of a an ear and a little clue. SO different!

[@PrinceWesterburg]

@@christophmunch4796 Yes, if you sit and listen. If you grow up with musician parents, how often do you really listen? "You never know the value of your mother, until you see her empty chair." etc.

[@herrickinman9303]

I've most definitely never confused Scarlatti for Bach --- at any point.

[@franksong5008]

Bach and Scarlatti have much more in common than one normally realizes - that short-clip identification test is so tricky even for trained professionals! There is no need at all to frustrate over the fact that a general audience might mistake Scarlatti for Bach🙂

[@NahreSol]

Yes, for sure!!

[@Doodsrsly]

I was able to cheat-used to listen to Bach’s compete partitas performed by Yuan Sheng when I’d make walks to my local library. Stuff got stuck.

[@MrJdsenior]

@@Doodsrsly Don't admit that! Just say, yeah, I got it right. :-)

[@DJHolte]

I only got one correct answer in the quiz myself. D'oh! 😄

[@Jason75913]

The short clip test uses clips too short. Anyway, dang, I didn't even know of Scarlatti.

[@GianmarioScotti]

At first I was perplexed, because I thought Domenico Scarlatti is one of the easiest composers to identify - because of imitations and the binary format sonata. But if we only look at a few bars, then yes, I can see how his music may be confused with Bach's. By the way, I would love to hear more of your interpretations of Bach. I think you are a brilliant musicians, especially when playing J.S. Bach's music.

[@NahreSol]

Yes… ! You are right

[@galolito]

That woman may have known what she was hearing and was asking for something else. At least I would like to think so.

[@RodericSpode]

Scarlatti's life was pretty unusual. If he hadn't taken a job at 34 years old, as the tutor of the musically gifted Portuguese Princess Maria Barbara, he probably would only be remembered today as the modestly talented son of Alessandro Scarlatti, instead of one of the greatest composers of the Baroque era. Some people only find their niche later in life.

[@Bati_]

For everyone who's asking, the piece played by David Louie at 6:59 is presumably Sonata in A major, K. 113 by Scarlatti, hope this helps...

[@denynugrahaa1755]

thank you ❤️

[@erezsolomon3838]

Such a nice piece. I'm learning it right now

[@adrianoseresi3525]

I can’t tell you how excited I am to see that you’ve finally made a video on Scarlatti! Tremendously underrated master composer with some of the most exciting, dramatic, tragic, demonic, transcendental and exulted music ever written for keyboard. There is just so much character and life to discover in his over 500 sonatas. Listening and perusing through them has always given me endless pleasure.

[@Penguren]

I’m so happy cause you posted :)

[@NahreSol]

🤗

[@adrianoseresi3525]

Btw, the first portrait you displayed of Scarlatti is actually of his father Alessandro not our beloved Domenico.

[@AdrianEarnshawMusic]

As someone who plays both Bach and Scarlatti on the organ, I found this video really interesting. Would love to see more videos in this format, keep it going 👍

[@pianobern69]

Scarlatti is rarely performed on organ sadly, thank you for giving him time to shine on the queen of instruments!

[@elaineblackhurst1509]

@@pianobern69 Most of Scarlatti’s sonatas do not suit the organ as most were conceived specifically for the harpsichord, though it is arguable that a few might have been written to be performed on the early fortepianos which were available in some of the Spanish royal palaces - K149, and K153 for example. The exception to this however is a small number of sonatas which I think may have been conceived originally for the organ; this list derives from Ralph Kirkpatrick’s biography of the composer (he of the K numbers). K41 - a fugue K58 - a fugue K93 - a fugue K254 & K255 - a pair, possibly for organ K287 & K288 - another pair, the first a fugue K328 - possibly for organ. Additionally, the following sonatas are also fugues and differ very little from those listed above, so could perhaps be added to the list: K30 (‘Cat’s fugue’), K82, K417. Hope you find that useful.

[@brianbernstein3826]

Scarlatti is one of the most underrated composers. Absolutely gorgeous music

[@LuizBHMG]

One and half years ago I started listening to all Scarlatti keyboard sonatas from a playlist including many performers. This after starting listening all Bach compositions and never finishing till now. But Scarlatti I finished in about 4 months and I was very surprised by his creativity! Such a harmonic and structural complexity! Feels like a 3 minute sonata by him has often more musical content than a 20 min romantic piece! Meanwhile I learned to play a couple of his sonatas, one of my greatest motivations during the pandemics. Touched by this experience, I also listened to all sonatas from Padre Antonio Soler and some by Carlos Seixas. Today, we know that Scarlatti influenced J.S. Bach, but probably not the opposite, since Bach's music was pretty unknown to the public during his life.

[@wdashwor]

I've loved Bach's keyboard works for a long time, and just recently discovered Scarlatti, and also Padre Antonio Soler. I LOVE all three-but no one will ever surpass Bach. Excellent video, and amazing Bachification and Scarlattiification. Thank you!

[@marcocampus7943]

Try the 3 S: Scarlatti, Soler, Seixas 😁

[@wdashwor]

@@marcocampus7943 I will do that! Thanks for the suggestion. 🙂

[@julietcunningham852]

I think my late Musicology Professor, Joel Sheveloff, would be pleased with this. He wroted his Doctoral dissertation on D. Scarlatti, and, after his retirement, his book on Bach's Musical Offering, and would often refer to the two of them in class. As a Voice Major who played piano, I had only run into D. Scarlatti in a book of old Italian songs and arias, but had been impressed by his almost modern harmonies.

[@gregonline6506]

This simply made me cry of joy. Born in Vienna my musical roots are mostly in the geografical middle between these amazing composers. The depth of you knowledge of baroque musica and your ability to interpret and reinvent some of it just made my day. Thank you so much. And yes, Scarlatti was not so much on my list up to now. ;)

[@PhinClio]

This was so fun! As someone who plays tons of Bach and Scarlatti (both badly) for my own pleasure, i loved the deep dive into similarities and differences.

[@myguitar5724]

I would say they were both great in their own manner. They both established foundational keyboard techniques. I think it is good Scarlatti is getting more recognition. Bach has plenty of recognition. Both of their works are enlightening and fun. Thanks.

[@ganeshram580]

It's a pleasure to watch you play, thank you :)

[@fugueholic]

She nails it as always she has done. Really intriguing stuff this is! Mainly, when she digested, mixed the styles of the two composers and produced the materials of the way of hers, I just gaped and listened to the music with bliss, blessing her rare talent. Thank you for your presence, Nahre!

[@Don-md6wn]

The Bach that Scarlatti reminds me of most is Carl Phillip Emmanuel, son of J.S. who was a big influence on Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven both with his compositions and his book on playing the keyboard. Both Scarlatti and CPE Bach have huge and very consistent bodies of keyboard works that often feel like improvisations with surprises around every corner. I'm not a musician or musically trained, but understand both have a lot of hand crossing. I don't know whether CPE Bach knew Scarlatti's music or not but suspect he did, as 30 of Scarlatti's sonatas were published in 1738 when CPE Bach was 24 years old.

[@elaineblackhurst1509]

Some interesting thoughts, but Scarlatti and CPE Bach have almost nothing in common except for both being extraordinarily fine keyboard players; perhaps that ability as players in itself creates a connection in some way. CPE’s music is focused on inner feelings and moving the emotions, whilst Scarlatti is more about ‘…artistic ingenuity and delight…pleasure’ (from the Preface to the 1738 London edition of thirty sonatas known as the Essercizi, possibly by Scarlatti himself). Your definitely right however about the improvisatory feel about the two composers - and the surprises, and about influence on Haydn*; partly so about influence on Beethoven, but I’m baffled as to why you added in Mozart (the Versuch excepted). Hand crossing occurs regularly in many of the earlier numbered K numbered sonatas, but is not common in CPE Bach at all (the very striking Sonata in f minor Wq 63/6 being one such case). Did CPE know any Scarlatti ?** Great question. * Haydn told his earliest biographers Griesinger and Dies that CPE had told him that he was ‘…the only composer who understood his [CPE’s] teachings properly and knew how to make use of them’. ** The 30 sonatas you mentioned were published in London (the Essercizi) and were a response to a very particular Scarlatti craze in England; not sure it reached as far as Berlin where CPE was employed as court harpsichordist at the very conservative, highly controlled, and narrow musical world of the court of Frederick the Great.

[@gaweyn]

I absolutely love it when you transform a piece into the style of another composer. Cannot get enough of it. That should totally be a thing of its own that all musicians (not only composers, but performers too) are taught or at least: encouraged to do.

[@krisjustin3884]

The longer musical clips reveal more of the differences between Bach and Scarlatti. Your beautifully bachified and scarlattified modifications also made these clearer, but as interesting I find this, I’m sure the general audience are just after pleasant baroque melodies without much focus on differences that would mostly go unnoticed to the untrained ear. Outstanding video. Enjoyed it!

[@philosophiaentis5612]

They are both in heaven having fun playing each other's music, just like you are doing Nahre Sol.

[@calebcreates8555]

Goddd damn, I LOVED your arrangements in this video. Thank you so much for making classical music so easy to learn about.

[@PianoMan333]

Very interesting video! I saw your Instagram post and thought it sounded like another composer's piece but modified to sound like Bach. Didn't expect the original piece to be from Scarlatti, but then again I barely even listen to Scarlatti :P

[@quentinperrenoud8915]

It was very impressive and insightful as always. I would love one with Mozart vs Haydn or Ravel vs Debussy

[@yahyamhirsi]

I love this!!! What about Mozart vs Haydn, Beethoven vs Schubert, Chopin vs Liszt, Brahms vs Schumann?

[@Jason75913]

They all sound very different from each other.

[@yahyamhirsi]

@@Jason75913 of course they do, but they also sound similar in many ways and that's the point of this video.

[@Jason75913]

@@yahyamhirsi not as similar as Scarlatti and Bach can sound, man

[@nagygabor4177]

@@Jason75913 Schubert does sound very much like Beethoven sometimes.

[@erezsolomon3838]

Only Mozart and Haydn are similar enough, and they're still easily distinguishable to the familiar listener

[@RobRysctun]

Of the two, Domenico is my favourite, although I love many Bach pieces too. What I love about Scarlatti is probably those things that you said made him sound modern, like unresolved note clusters. I like his happy style too, his playful and often danceable music makes me feel more cheerful. (Although he wrote some beautiful sad pieces too, in the style of his dad.) So I really love that you can 'Scarlattify' pieces by Bach. And I would love to hear Scarlattified pieces by other composers too. Perhaps you could even make the boring and predictable keyboard compositions churned out by Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven enjoyable. :D And I wonder if Scarlatti sonatas could be made even more 'modern' sounding, without spoiling their simple appeal?

[@faithlesshound5621]

David Greilsammer made a CD a few years ago where he alternated Domenico Scarlatti sonatas with pieces by John Cage. He hammered the keyboard and made the Scarlatti more Cage-like. Pi Hsien Chen made a similar CD but with much longer Cage pieces. Listening to it in the car taught me that 4' 33" of the latter is long enough.

[@robertreinke7374]

Impressive work. I would say you should publish the Scarlatti to Bach which is an improvement. Your technique is very very good, especially the articulation.

[@peterwu8471]

What a wonderful video - thanks for making it and sharing it! You are incredibly talented.

[@matthewwilson3305]

Beautiful, Nahre! I love your reimaginings of various composers. That's funny I don't believe I've ever confused the two, but your quiz definitely stumped me a few times. You always do such a great job verbalizing what we experience in music.

[@carlosmurgueitio-tipsideas4545]

If I had all the money I could ever have in this world, I would assemble a group of teachers to study with things like Music Theory, Composition, Piano Technique and a bit of literature, poetry and zen-drawing.And without a doubt, I would be honored to have you as my mentor in the music areas above mentioned. You're not only a great musician but also, someone who reminds me to not take away the joy from making / studying music :-)

[@Bati_]

This is such a magnificent video in every aspect and what an amazing launch of a new highly educative series, Nahre! 👏 This is a great example of how music goes around the world and comes full circle through circular inspirations throughout history! I'm amazed by everything you have shared here! About one of their historical and cultural connections, I think J.S. Bach was influenced by Italian styles a lot in his own writing, I mean even more than we know perhaps. The Italian Concerto is there, of course, but he even learned how to write concertos by literally copying note-for-note Vivaldi's scores and he studied the Italian style of writing through transcriptions a lot! Another interesting thing is that Bach probably was much different than we know in terms of personality as well. In 1730, he provided a memorandum by writing a ten-page complaint to the town council in Leipzig (it is called ‘Short But Most Necessary Draft for a Well-Appointed Church Music’), in which he explained why it is necessary to embrace "the present musical taste" and "master new kinds of music" to the authorities during that time. Even an eminent figure in Western classical music such as Bach, who might have the most sanctioned narrative as a composer had an insatiable appetite for changes in taste. About the last footnote you shared, I think Bach being more famous might have a lot to do with the sanctioned narrative surrounding him in public outreach of music through mainstream media and teachings, thus the whole perception of music history, too. And also Mendelssohn's (and even Nadia Boulanger's) effect during the revival of Bach might have played more role as well. Perhaps, Scarlatti didn't have that much media support in later centuries. Another very innovative Baroque composer I truly love who shares a similar fate with Scarlatti in terms of being less known is Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber. He was one of the first solo violin writers and arguably the greatest violin composer of the 17th century (and of all time for me). His music witnessed a revival much later than his lifetime as well, in the 20th century! His "Mystery (Rosary) Sonatas" blow my mind entirely and leave me awestruck every time I experience them. Incredibly imaginative and unique... Especially his beautiful "The Annunciation", "The Agony in the Garden", "The Crucifixion", and the final "Passacaglia"... Perhaps even Paganini was largely influenced by him... He deserves much more recognition than the current state.. His music is highly emotional yet extremely complex at the same time which is always a hard and rare balance to get when looking at great composers I think. A truly unique and marvelously creative composer, I'm a huge fan of his work, especially Rachel Podger's recordings of his music... It was an amazing video as always! Kudos to your effort and enthusiasm for learning and teaching new and exciting things every day! And of course, thanks for sharing these gems with us! I hope you overcome every obstacle and recover well very soon! I sincerely wish all is getting well there for you... 🙏 P.S. David Louie is a living legend!

[@turdusrufiventris7841]

I loved this video and I hope you do more of this comparison / transformation videos!

[@apeckx5090]

You blew my mind with this one. That second piece actually made me gasp several times with the hand crossing

[@NahreSol]

Took many takes to not screw them up ! 😅

[@apeckx5090]

@@NahreSol it was worth it in the end! It looked and sounded spectacular!

[@garcia-palaoguiadecomposicion]

La música de J. S. Bach tiene mayor equilibrio de las voces, riqueza estructural y un misticismo inigualable. La música de D. Scarlatti es una cordillera musical de cimas afiladas, rica en expresión e innovación sonora. Ambos dos grandes genios.

[@worrellrobinson4332]

Great Job!... This was a great session of your channel Nahre, Bach and Scarlatti. keep up the good work kind regards...

[@tracktionwaveformtips]

Wow, I really enjoyed that. Your reimaginings of each composer as each other were a great insight into each (especially from a player’s perspective). Also your little test was devious and more difficult than I expected!

[@SachinShukla]

This is very interesting! I guess it shouldn’t be such a surprise that Bach and Scarlatti sound so similar, because Bach is perhaps the most famous exponent of the early 18th century German “mixed” style that integrates elements from both France and Italy, much more cosmopolitan than the previous century. He was very aware and often admiring of his Italian predecessors and contemporaries, including Corelli, Vivaldi, and Domenico’s father Alessandro. The areas where Scarlatti differs are also understandable. Particularly his less strict eye towards counterpoint. His father Alessandro is known for being one of the founders of the Neapolitan partimento tradition, an institutionalized educational curriculum in accompaniment at the keyboard. Although the pupils all learned counterpoint, many Neapolitan teachers had much less strict rules on counterpoint than the stile antico did. I never really appreciated though unique Scarlatti was in using things like style, topic, and affect to drive his sonatas, although it is in large part why I like his sonatas so much. I am currently working on a project connecting Bach to the incoming Galant style, which is commonly held to have originated in Italy shortly before 1720. I am trying to compare Bach to a lot of his predecessors and contemporaries to identify patterns of similarity and difference. Hearing the similarities between him and Scarlatti opens up many new avenues! Thanks for the inspiration!

[@houdinididiit]

Great video! I love your reinterpretations ❤️ The greatest irony of Bach representing the Baroque era, is that he was slightly after it in the Rococo era. By his time, he was considered old-fashioned which is why he was virtually unknown. If we imagine someone like Duke Ellington writing great big band music during the 1970s it wouldn’t be too far-fetched. What would Duke Ellington have become? Probably a very good lounge pianist (composing on the side) very much like how Bach became a church organist. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@5DAndOn]

Sad that collectively and temporally most never see greatness when it’s in front of us, as our monkey brains are always chasing the next shiny thing, especially as it has gone out of style. In a sense of irony whoever was all the rage back then when it wasn’t Bach have not stood the test of time and become unknowns, and JSB has gone down in history as one of the great composers of all time.

[@christopherlees1134]

Brilliant combination of the two at the end! Great analysis. Such high quality. This was a creative concept all around. Please do more.

[@1feloniouspunk]

Brilliant vid! Very clear comparison that elucidates the time. Thanks!

[@cmorsley]

Your brilliant playing and insights definitely give me an appreciation for Scarlatti’s artistry and flare - no doubt a brilliant and innovative composer. Bach on the other hand is a giant. One of the greatest geniuses that ever lived. His music not just clever and innovative it is transcendent.

[@nachnt]

It is a pity that you forgot to mention or explain in detail the influence of Iberian music, specially that of Spain, in Scarlatti's sonatas. There has been a lot of investigations concerning this issue. Bach and Scarlatti are two of my favorite composers. Keep up the good work!!!

[@denise2169]

What amazing understanding and creativity you have, Nahre! I love listening to your videos! And I am so impressed with the interesting and knowledgeable comments of your listeners!

[@antonbruckner7329]

Great video, thanks Nahre. I would be very interested to hear more of Louie's insights as well and hope that you include him in future videos

[@fokkebaarda]

Great video. As always. But this one has such an intriguing question of style and personality, with national influences. It might be good to understand that Scarlatti composed later in life for an audience of one, a Portugese princess who became a Spanish Queen. The sonatas were for her to play, and that is the reason for the enormous amount of sonatas in one format, yet with vivid playful details. Teacher and pupil must have had fun to mimic everyday music outside the palace walls in this uniquely intimate music volume.

[@coolguyzack]

This is such an important point. It's even said that she as she grew older and gained weight, he had to write pieces with less demanding movement and arm crossings...

[@elaineblackhurst1509]

@@coolguyzack I think the story of Scarlatti’s alleged weight gain is fake news, and an simply urban myth based on zero factual information. The famous portrait of Scarlatti by Velasco, along with his appearance in the background of a Spanish royal family portrait indicate a man probably physiologically incapable of becoming morbidly obese. I think that there *was* a huge weight gain, but that it was almost entirely concentrated around the mid-regions of Scarlatti’s patron Queen Maria Barbara.

[@coolguyzack]

@@elaineblackhurst1509 No not Scarlatti, but the Queen of Spain, Barbara of Portugal who was his student. That is verifiable, but the claim that his pieces were written to accommodate her limitations is an assumption

[@elaineblackhurst1509]

@@coolguyzack I think we are saying the same thing: Scarlatti did not become a heavyweight, but Maria Barbara probably did.

[@comtohen]

Great video as always. I think it would be cool if you do a similar format on Debussy and Ravel. Also Mozart and Heiden.

[@vinylarchaeologist]

Nahre, love these kinds of videos! Thank you.

[@dyrevennen]

wow, I love this video. Great to see your hans while you are playing, and I loved you modifications. Awesome :)

[@garethmontanarello684]

That Bach in the style of Scarlatti was ludicrously good!

[@alaaobaid3363]

Would love to see similar video with Antonio Vivaldi , his fugue and counterpoint writings are criminally underrated

[@topsymusic3733]

As his vocal works...

[@edmarft]

What an awesome video! I love both these composers, it's very interesting to observe de diferences and similarities betwen them. Thanks!

[@5DAndOn]

Love your videos and your your energy, it comes through on the keys 🎹♥️🎵Always look forward to hearing more!

[@mookiesdream1]

Because they were both heavy drinkers.

[@NahreSol]

😂

[@howard5992]

It may be coffee !

[@jeffreyadams648]

True? I’m not a genius but I am a heavy drinker.

[@tasosdiaforetico7377]

Possibly just a Milo

[@mariobprieto8547]

I listen to her works till I get drunk, no harm, good for me!

[@dorfmanjones]

I love Scarlatti, but Bach has more dimensions surely: the cantatas, the passions, the organ preludes, etc. And even with the dance suites, or the series of variations on a theme, he covers more musical real estate.

[@aldrichemrys]

Yeah, not to mention his Godly ability with counterpoints and multiple voices. Scarlatti sounds more melodical and simple (which is not a bad thing, that takes talent too) but I haven't seen too many composers since Bach who could compose counterpoints for a sustained period of time. Multiple voices I could only find in composers specializing in organs.

[@sapiensfromterra5103]

@@aldrichemrys The truth is, a theme that is fit for complex counterpoint, already is restricted by a lot of rules and if Bach already covered most of the themes, then the only way to create your own is to move on. The more voices, the less options for themes remain, if bach worte 2000 different pieces of music, you can be sure, that he has covered them all I bet. It is sad, counterpoint is the best invention that music has ever experienced, but in the end, where do you go after Bach? You can't follow in his footsteps and manage to add something, you will always sound like him and taking different musical material as basis for your counterpoint, quickly gets you to the point, where you have to stay in certain boundaries, where Bach already went. He is undoubtedly the greatest composer of all time, but he killed the ability of people to follow the early music route for counterpoint driven material. Scarlatti shows a way to be creative inside the baroque style, without being a copy, a mere cover - artist, he has freed up new real estate, that is not covered with the monuments of Bach...

[@neilsaunders6009]

And that, in a nutshell, is the answer to the question posed in the video's title.

[@neilsaunders6009]

@@sapiensfromterra5103 Bach did not kill the ability of his successors to use counterpoint or expand its horizons.

[@luciustarquiniuspriscus1408]

If you didn't know it, would you say that the musical offering and a Brandenburg concert were written by the same person? It's hard for me to reconcile all of his styles.

[@guille____]

This video is amazing Nahre! Thank you so much

[@brosan]

So well done! Very very interesting! Thanks

[@luuktorn]

Amazing and interesting video! Nice to see and hear both the harpsichord and the piano. The altered pieces are fantastic! That one that is written by Scarlatti but changed into Bach's style is for me extremely Bach-like, so amazing! The other one by Bach but in the style of Scarlatti is less convincing because of the lack of Spanish influence in the melody, but is also a lovely rendition. Really enjoyed this video!!

[@cageynerd]

I do feel in piano, Scarlatti does a lot -- but BACH -- cello suites, sonatas and partitas, orchestral suites, fugue treatment, counterpoint, like -- when you just mention a few other things that Bach did, all of the sudden Scarlatti falls way behind. So the simple answer is, no, NO ONE is better than Bach. When you ask every violinist and they tell you the greatest single work for violin is Bach's Chaconne -- that says it all. OF ALL THE GREATEST REP FOR VIOLIN -- the last movement of one of his partita suites takes the cake, it says it all. No one is better than Bach.

[@aldrichemrys]

@@ignacioclerici5341 Mozart also has a lot of musical versatility like Bach, but that's where their similarity ends.

[@alanleoneldavid1787]

Well yes. But there is a lot of missing Scarlatti pieces that they are lost

[@dankoppel6271]

And the passions + mass in b minor.

[@agnidas5816]

@@alanleoneldavid1787 even more lost from Bach

[@loganofficial153]

Yeah even mozart was shocked when he first time played one of bach's piece he was like i have never ever heard something like these i mean these pieces are so balanced he learn a lot from it

[@percybrand1588]

Love the explanations. It is like being in a music appreciation class.

[@SalRosenskjold]

Great video! Very entertaining and also very insightful. I would have loved to see David Louie's reaction to your new arrangements at the end, perhaps having him sightread them for extra fun.

[@r0mmm]

Eventhough I'm a jazz musician I've played a lot of Bach and Scarlatti mainly for technical studies (sorry Bach and Scarlatti lovers). After some months and years I've kind of noticed that the main difference between the two is the general sound. So Bach sounds in a way german and Scarlatti italian. German sound is harsh, direct and layered. Italian is dramatic and emotional, if that makes sense. Ofc it's all very subjective and generelized and not very academic. But it's my impression I got from playing them a lot. But anyway, thanks a lot for the vid :)

[@NahreSol]

Yes yes!!!

[@MrJdsenior]

"German sound is harsh" Yeah, like Jesu Joy.

[@r0mmm]

@@MrJdsenior Like I said, it's a general impression of mine. And the meaning of "harsh" is not what you might think of but rather direct and less dramatic. And your example isn't the best one either. If you compare Jesu Joy to any italian aria of the time you'll see that in comparison Jesu joy sounds way harsher and directer than the Italian one.

[@ezequielstepanenko3229]

You don't consider Bach to be dramatic and emotional? Well, that's weird. I don't know exactly what you mean by that, but his masses, passions, organ works, cantatas seem to me extremely dramatic and emotional

[@QuangNguyen-nh2oc]

@@MrJdsenior I think I know what he meant, and I would use the word "disciplined" or "structured" rather than "harsh". The comparison reminds me about a world cup soccer game a number of years back, when Germany & Brazil were playing. The two teams had totally different styles. The German team had a very disciplined style, constantly passing the ball with precision, while the Brazil team dribbled the ball a lot more.

[@guyb7005]

I once asked my Italian neighbour if he liked classical music, he answered "sì". I asked him what type of classical music he liked and he looked at me all puzzled. I clarified asking him if he preferred Renaissance or Romantic and he quickly confirmed Baroque! I then asked which artist he preferred and again he looked at me all puzzled. So I suggested Scarletti?, or perhaps Bach?... and he interrupted me saying: " Ba-roque, my stario, she is baroque, I no leesan to musik no more".

[@tepsoram]

@footballcoreano "Broke, my stereo, she is broke..."

[@elaineblackhurst1509]

@footballcoreano The odd American-English pronunciation of ‘Baroque’ which sounds rather like ‘Ba-*roke’* as in broke/broken - is the source of endless punning in the US, but it is a little local joke that is not understood outside North America. The rest of the English-speaking world says ‘Ba-*rock’* which more closely matches the Italian, German, French, and other pronunciations of the word.

[@ericksonlk]

As we can see, both would greatly benefit if they had done a colab back then.

[@vishnuramankutty717]

Have you ever thought about doing a video on Rameau?! Anyway great video!

[@TheGukumatz]

Domenico Scarlatti, Carlos Seixas, Francisco Xavier Baptista,Antonio Soler y Ramos , Manuel Blasco de Nebra, and many others were extraodinary musicians and composers.

[@Alix777.]

Sebastian de Albero

[@TheGukumatz]

@@Alix777. Yeah I know also Sebatian de Albero, and other, as Joao Domingos Bontempo who is from later period but also a great musician.

[@mariahc.crawley884]

YOU GO SIS! PLEASSSSSE DO THIS WITH OTHER COMPOSERS WHO MAY OFTEN BE CONFUSED OR WERE CONTEMPORARIES.....IF POSSIBLE? BRAVA!👏🏿👏🏻👏🏾👏🏻👏🏿👏🏻👏🏾👏🏻👏🏿👏🏻👏🏾👏🏻👏🏿👏🏻👏🏾👏🏻👏🏿👏🏻👏🏾👏🏻👏🏿👏🏻👏🏾👏🏻👏🏿👏🏻👏🏾👏🏻👏🏿🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵 🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@remakesonly]

So glad to see your relationship with your teacher, love the content 👍🏻

[@daviddieffenderfer]

Incredibly interesting and insightful, thank you!

[@thinkpad20]

I've listened to countless hours of both Bach and Scarlatti, and yet during the "guess which composer" segment I managed to guess wrong on almost all of them. Seems that you chose the most "Scarlatti-sounding Bach" and the most "Bach-sounding Scarlatti" pieces :)

[@disienna]

I got every piece wrong.

[@alcidesaggio]

Bach made a lot of transcriptions of italian's composers like A. Vivalde, A. Marcello, B. Marcello. There was a competition Handel /Scarllati promouted by a prince. Have has Bach know Scarlatti peices (sonatas) and that competition ? Do you know? Congratulation for the performances of you and your theacher!

[@BigParadox]

Extremely interesting and inspiring video, thanks!

[@TonyBernardiWriter]

You are the best! Love your work …. Amazing and beautiful

[@bahrss]

11:00 When Nahre just started playing I was wondering, if she would try to correct the King of polyphony himself and insert a repeat into a piece. And she did! Nice dare, but I still love Bach's neverending rhythm more)

[@ruperttmls7985]

Y además de sus diferencias musicales y compositivas, Bach y Scarlatti son los compositores barrocos que mas ayudan a desarrollar la técnica al teclado, ambos fueron profesores y escribieron mas de la mitad de sus obras para la enseñanza de alumnos, de ahí que su música además de hermosa ayude a practicar la técnica del clavecin y del piano actual.

[@DorAmram]

Very interesting video, and great work conveying the differences and similarities in this "style change" that you're really amazing at!

[@LandgraabIV]

This video was amazing, loved the changes that you made.

[@dingus_doofus]

I realised the way to distinguish Bach. If the melody feels oddly familiar, it's Bach. If not, it's Scarlatti! :D

[@hh-dr4db]

If you ever think "crap, my CD skipped," it's Scarlatti.

[@SChristianCollins]

LOL! Sonata K. 502 has one measure that's played six times in a row. It's an overall really interesting sonata that changes meter a few times and even breaks into a swing rhythm!

[@clefcantomusicschool4852]

Very interesting and informative. Thanks. Willy

[@webbophone3377]

Wow what a great vid! Contains many things I hadn't really thought about before! Plus the skills and brains you have are incredible!

[@Delectatio]

One music historian told us that a kind of a "ranking" was done that time among composers of that region, and Bach took merely 7th place. And a couple of the guys considered as superior to him are completely forgotten now.

[@mikets42]

Bach was considered very old fashioned, frozen in time of his youth and hopelessly backward. Now we rephrase that he was developing his own style instead of frozen. Handel was all the rage of the times, but now he is mostly forgotten - which he did not deserve. History is not just.

[@saidtoshimaru1832]

0:45 - That's Alessandro Scarlatti... Domenico's dad 😛

[@AAKlavier]

Fantastic job with reimagining the compositions as the other composer--really amazing work Nahre

[@alexanderh.5104]

That was wonderful, thank you so much for this!

[@joshuamoninger2792]

Awesome work, Nahre!!! I often think some of Haydn and some of Mozart sound very similar, though their overall works as a whole are more obviously different. And then there are Beethoven's piano trios which I feel are a completely different Beethoven than the Beethoven who wrote symphonies. Those trios are my absolute favorite pieces...

[@NahreSol]

Yes yes!! Maybe I will tackle Mozart and Haydn next

[@kjeloslund550]

An even closer match would be (IMHO) J. C. Bach's and Mozart's operatic arias. Give Phillippe Jaroussky's recording of JC Bach's arias a try. I think every one would think these works were by Mozart, not JS Bach's son.

[@iamwaynerooney]

@@NahreSol yes I was about to say Mozart and Haydn too! Lovely video, I really enjoyed it! -R

[@pokerandphilosophy8328]

I love Domenico Scarlatti. He's a fantastic composer. He's greatly underrated. He's a true musical genius. As for Bach, well, he simply blows Scarlatti out of the water. Nahre Sol ranks somewhere in between the two of them.

[@JohnSmith-oe5kx]

Nahre Sol is a musical genius superior to Scarlatti??? Dude...

[@AtomizedSound]

@@JohnSmith-oe5kx I think he was using hyperbole

[@JohnSmith-oe5kx]

@@AtomizedSoundor he might have a crush on Nahre Sol, which is perfectly understandable.

[@Opuss55]

@@JohnSmith-oe5kx Man is he trolling or real dumb

[@elaineblackhurst1509]

This sort of comment about ‘…blowing out of the water’ really is not helpful to anyone. Apart from both being born in 1685 and being astonishing keyboard players, I’m not sure that Scarlatti and Bach have much else in common, and I really don’t see the point of the video at all. But just in answer to your particular point and to give one example to counter it, listen to Martha Argerich performing Scarlatti’s d minor sonata K141; Bach never wrote anything approaching this fantastic sonata which in many ways is beyond his conception (then try K27, and if you like, I’ll add another 5, 10, or whatever). It’s not about being better or any such nonsense, it’s about being *different.*

[@martinaflorencio776]

Love the way you dive deep on the topics here on KZbin

[@henningvonplaten1548]

Wonderful video! I enjoyed every second of it!

[@NothingMoreButMusic]

me: * has a bachelors degree in music * gets all 5 wrong... * questions his life choices * still loves bach

[@Luboman411]

Scarlatti was clearly far more successful careerwise than Bach during his lifetime. He ended up at the Portuguese and Spanish royal courts, having attained two of the most important musical positions in all of Europe. He was also feted as a great composer in both Lisbon and Madrid. Royal patronage meant steady beaucoup bucks; Scarlatti likely did not struggle financially. It sounded like Scarlatti was a smooth operator, schmoozing the right people at the right times. Bach, on the other hand, never got out of the little ducal courts of Thuringia and Saxony, forever feeling like he was not getting his due with regards to the jobs he had to hold down. He constantly sought better positions, especially at the Prussian court, but they never panned out. He also complained a lot about money, frequently fighting to get a proper wage from the Leipzig city authorities. But Bach was also quite prickly and cantankerous, not a born schmoozer, which can really harm career development. So Bach got the short end of the stick purely based on career success while he was still alive.

[@briseboy]

And cold fingers in the Little Ice Age. He certainly had a lot of chillun . . .

[@thomaslai5303]

The modification by the end of the video is fascinating and intriguing! will definitely love to hear more! Or perhaps you would be care to post more of your own composition? Thank you anyway! Lovely video!

[@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj]

Thank you,Nahre⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐(and Maestro David Louie).

[@openendedthinking4033]

To be honest I think that many times you can only tell the difference when you know the piece was written by the specific composer. I think we could all agree that it is easier to tell romantic era and 20th century composers apart since 'originality' became more important.

[@NahreSol]

Yes!

[@YumiVanherck]

I think this is a gross misunderstanding of baroque music. Every different region had its own style back then just like every scene has its own sound nowadays, we just don't always notice it because it's so vastly different from more modern music which is probably what we listen to more. If you listen to a more modern genre you're unfamiliar with you would not hear the differences between two different artists either.

[@openendedthinking4033]

@@YumiVanherck Please note that I put 'originality' in single qoutation marks to emphasis that I mean it within a specific context. I agree that they were stylistic differences among regions, however, my point was directed towards composers and their music individually not regionally.

[@openendedthinking4033]

@@YumiVanherck For example, can one really tell the difference between Buxtehude and early Bach. Heck I've listened to a piece by Sweelinck (I hope I spelled that correctly) and could have mistook it for a Bach fugue if I did not know Sweelinck wrote it.

[@imacat8476]

​@@openendedthinking4033 I think this might just be due to lack of listening experience with baroque music. Buxtehude and even Early Bach have quite different qualities, Buxtehude has this grandiose improvised organ sympathy type of quality to his music that Bach simply doesn't have, nor did any other composer besides some french organists like Marchand. Sweelinck too, his style takes a lot from renaissance composers before him and renaissance music, let alone the keyboard they used, has a more austere, sentimental quality.