A Musical WORSE than Mean Girls (2024) - Joker: Folie a Deux

Joker 2 aka Joker: Folie a Deux is a terrible movie musical. But it's not terrible BECAUSE it's a musical. So let's break down specifically how this movie fails to succeed where others in the musical genre succeeded.
I'm Dylan, and THIS is the Writer's Block.
Written & Edited ---------------------- Dylan Gregory ‪@TheWritersBlockOfficial‬

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

Is Hollywood wrong about Musicals? Or should they stick to the stage???

[@eatatjoes6751]

They’re wrong about good musicals.

[@pawnhearts8785]

If Hazbin Hotel proves anything, it's that you just have to make your musical good and enjoyable for people to care and adore it.

[@pawnhearts8785]

That moment when Hazbin Hotel is now the best edgy musical of 2024

[@gogogogig]

well no…

[@thijmendol8248]

@@gogogogig Out of curiosity, which one would you say it is?

[@scizopenguin]

well thats such a bad idea that barely anyone has done it

[@pawnhearts8785]

@@gogogogig Yes

[@imechko_familia]

This timeline is cursed 😭

[@nameless-ck3du]

such a shame since i genuinely enjoy musicals but so many directors dont know how to direct a musical and it ends up shitty. guess ill be sticking to mamma mia, the greatest showman, and tangled forever.

[@KircherTalksEntertainment]

In the one scene where Arthur and Lee “sing” to each other through the Arkham visitation room, the only thing I could think of in that moment is what would happen if the diner scene in Heat had Robert de Niro and Al Pacino sing that dialogue to each other. Sounds awesome in theory, but would probably be cringe if shot and performed in the same way that it was in the actual movie. That’s exactly how it felt in Joker: Folie A Deux, and is indicative of how poorly the musical numbers fit overall.

[@toyosibee.mp3]

THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT THE WEIRD TALK-SINGING! I was kind of shocked in MOST of Gaga's numbers in this film, she sounds...bad?? But not necessarily bad, just pitchy (like you said) and weirdly airy, like she's not actually singing or is moreso whisper-singing. 'Gonna Build a Mountain' is one of the best numbers in this film simply because they actually get to sing and vibe with the instrumental instead of just...standing there and singing like they're trying not to disrupt the next door neighbors.

[@EagerCompass-mm7gj]

U do know she’d intentionally sang poorly because Lee is not a singer? Only those in Arthur’s mind is when Gaga sang well?

[@toyosibee.mp3]

@@EagerCompass-mm7gj You probably really like the singing style choices in Todd Hooper's Les Mis, huh?

[@mrmusickhimself]

I love watching people go full "COPE ON A ROPE" and try to defend it. Nevermind the betrayal of character and that it retroactively taints the original film, it committed the WORST sin a movie can make: It was BORING. I asked the theater for a refund despite finishing the movie, and they were kind enough to accommodate me.

[@aspacelex]

More like Junker! Got his ass.

[@robertlauncher]

Having a sequel to a movie whose ambiguity was part of the point was the inherently bad idea here.

[@nickymo]

What’s ambiguous about Joker? he shouts the point of the movie out loud before shooting Murray in the face.

[@robertlauncher]

@@nickymo The fact that he’s an unreliable narrator, calling into question the entire series of events and their validity.

[@goober479]

@@robertlauncher the ambiguity is ended when his psychosis is revealed though. We get his motives pretty clearly.

[@robertlauncher]

@@goober479 If you want to interpret it that way, sure. But it’s also established with the Joker as a character that he keeps remembering his past differently. The entire movie could be the way he wants to see his life leading up to becoming the Joker, or a BS version he tells others to garner sympathy. The first movie left it open for interpretation. I’m not talking about his motives as shown at the end, I’m talking about the fact that you can’t entirely trust the story of a guy who breaks into delusions(Same with his initial standup scene where he imagined everyone laughing) and goes around unaliving people.

[@robertlauncher]

Unless you wanna tell me the whole girlfriend thing was a pointless side plot, which I don’t think so

[@toyosibee.mp3]

THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT THE WEIRD TALK-SINGING! I was kind of shocked at how in a lot of Gaga's numbers in this film, she sounds...bad?? But not necessarily bad, just pitchy (like you said) and weirdly airy, like she's not actually singing or is moreso whisper-singing. 'Gonna Build a Mountain' is one of the best numbers in this film simply because they actually get to sing and vibe with the instrumental instead of just...standing there and singing like they're trying not to disrupt the next door neighbors.

[@eatatjoes6751]

The Lizzie McGuire Movie, right? Damn, I don’t know how well it holds up outside of the animated bits but even if it doesn’t it’s better than Joker’s weirdly bad musical, and I didn’t even watch the first one. As someone who doesn’t like musicals, can movie executives stop trying to hide them from the public? It pissed me off with the Mean Girls revival and it pisses me off now because it just feels condescending in the same way that a musical fan might have felt after they went to see Into the Woods’ film expecting music and no James Corden.

[@thatonepossum5766]

Yeah, I WANT to know if a movie is a musical, because I _like_ musicals. I’d be frustrated if I went to see a movie only to find out it’s a totally different genre than what was advertised. In fact, I’d feel downright scammed. Especially if it’s a bad movie.

[@eatatjoes6751]

@@thatonepossum5766 We both feel ripped off. Hell, the only reason I dislike musicals is because I just don’t enjoy them as much as other movies, but goddamn, enough with the faux à deux. If you’re a musical, just *be a musical.*

[@ArcaneMelody107]

My opinion is this depiction of joker is FAR too realistic. And I’m not talking about not falling into acid and all that jazz. Look at the caped crusader show for example. The Harley depiction is very realistic, but there’s still this dark whimsy about her Harley persona. The Batman movie works because Batman himself is a pretty down to earth realistic hero (but surrounded by somewhat fantastical villains). Taking those villains and pulling the lever to full realism…it just doesn’t work to me. To me these aren’t Joker (and Harley). They feel too real of people. Not saying most other depictions romanticize their mental illness, I’m far from saying that. These depictions are just…someone nee

[@ELFanatic]

Here's the real issue. the Joker was never a Joker movie. They slapped that in at the last second to make money. So now their aimless.

[@Vendetta_Armada80]

Rocky Horror Picture Show 75' is the best musical

[@FlymanMS]

I love how nothing in the trailer indicated that it was going to be a musical.

[@Teacher-Thayse]

Yes! I enjoy musicals, but I totally agree it should've indicated it has musical numbers...

[@maxwellcorben3261]

To many people it did. And even if it didn’t to you, it was announced way before its release that it would be a musical.

[@EthanKirsch.]

The whole point of the musical numbers, besides the foile a deux, is a progression of Joker’s character from the first movie. He sings and dances, albeit more likely, but becomes more in tune with the music in him as the movie progresses. After Joker is fully embraced at the end of the first, he can’t fully stop. When he finds Harley, she seeks to be like Joker, so the pair express themselves through song. That was my takeaway. I enjoyed it.

[@ThizbeSylvan]

i really enjoyed the movie. i don't understand the hate

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

That's dope! What did you enjoy about it?

[@AlvaroIbacacheS]

I think Joker highlight some interesting things about musical movies. For many years musical movies has been look down upon, by the audience who believes know better and critics. But musicals are a hard genre to make, not everyone can make a musical movie and that’s why not many directors tries, because you need some sort of knowledge of how a musicals works in all their stages: the music, the choreography, the actors, the costumes, the stages, etc. It was a bold move from Phillips to attempt to do something he doesn’t have a knowledge of, but it wasn’t the right choice or the right material to begin with. He couldn’t put against two genres more different than the other one and that has such alienated fanbase as well, it’s like trying to do Fast and Furious the musical.

[@lepersonnage371]

2:35 Arthur always had music in him, in the first movie it's shown a lot, so he doesn't need any outside motivation to sing, he's just full of music as it is, and always has been, that makes sense

[@toyosibee.mp3]

LET’S GOOOOOOOO

[@joshuaplumb9213]

For me at least, musicals are often an exploration of fantasy vs reality. If we go by this, I really think the musical numbers here work quite well considering the films themes centre A LOT on Arthur's fantasies and how his mental illnesses play into this, hell even the joker himself could be said to be a facade, meaning we don't know whether it's real or not. It's deliberately ambiguous if that makes sense. I completely get your points, but idk I thought the movie worked well as a dark inversion of musical tropes

[@Teacher-Thayse]

Good point!

[@johnaslover]

It’s not great but it’s definitely not worse than Mean Girls.

[@lorriechristian7164]

I enjoyed the film, but you've definitely given a lot of perspective on why it doesn't commit to the musical aspect as much as it should. Which is a shame because it could have easily been considered one of the best films of this year if it did. Hopefully something comes along and kicks off a film musical resurgance.

[@Michael-sq3nf]

the joke maker didn't even tell a single joke

[@AuspexAstarte]

I’ve only seen the first one and I watched it alone and much after it was released, and without any preconceptions I enjoyed it for what it was and that was a cathartic unbound expression of shadow selves as a reaction to the shadow of corruption and hypocrisy in high positions who mask their dark selves in an abuse of their station, I’m sad that there was a musical aspect fell flat because otherwise I might have still been interested (edit: I think I shouldve have watched the movie first so I can make my own critical view, big rip!)

[@Laramaria2]

Margot Robbie's scene in The Suicide Squad (2021) where she's singing while being tortured before escaping feels like a musical number that works and the movie isn't even a musical and that's sad AF... Also, A+ for the Lizzie McGuire reference. 😂 Edit: the Descendants scene is not Evie, that's Mal 😅

[@Lauren007E]

I mean if this film just followed Harley I'd be 100% on board for her to be singing. Just follow a woman who falls for a mad man and her watching his trial obsessively/trying to end up in the hospital with him so she can break him out and fix his broken heart. We already saw that the music in Arthur was expressed through uncomfortable dance not vocal singing

[@let_me_ink]

Really tired of these non musical musicals. I thought they were doing the wisper singing and than turn it into a more classic musical production as the delusion grows, but for most of it, thats not true. Even the bigger show scenes, it doesnt feel musical. Side note, i thought it was interesting that they seem to reference Char and Amy Winehouse, both woman who argueably got taken advantage of by they partners, but harley is clearly the abuser in this version. It made me feel like the director was questioning the abuse of these woman I know its nitpicky, but if youre going to bring the Harley Joker deignamic into the real world and flipping it, im gonna read into it

[@-heiheilego-]

Personally I love musicals and I think the speak-singing was ok cuz it’s also what we do naturally when showering or alone expressing. However I do find this movie’s musical numbers so frequently repetitive that I find them annoying and out of tone unlike what La la land achieved. I appreciate how the 2019 Joker dealt with music (the bathroom dancing, stairs dancing, Murray’s Franklin show), subtle yet effectively immersive, and I do love some songs of Joker 2 like Close to you and The Joker. Sadly many other songs feel overlong when few sentences of singing the song can already show the emotions and belting out the full song felt unnecessarily stretched, including For once in my life, Gonna build a mountain, and If you go away.

[@angyvirtu3593]

I didn't hate the movie, but this was a good critique.

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

Thank you

[@lyricbot8513]

Honestly if the musical is bad but Lady Gaga's harlequin album is good it'll be the funniest possible outcome

[@artofdrinking]

Shame because the first film was great

[@ayeg-dp5to]

great video!!!

[@TheWritersBlockOfficial]

Thank you!

[@Teacher-Thayse]

I agree with the points brought in this video and I would change a couple of things in this movie, but I overall enjoyed it. Bear with me! 😅

[@Tac_Nyan]

ehm... its actually MAL....

[@allye9865]

I liked the movie but I wouldn't call it deep

[@toddofdover1]

work on your delivery, your Valley girl stress at the end of sentences was annoying

[@Chibi_Mercury]

i never heard of this lol

[@swazdo_lah7299]

i disagree

[@Wackaz]

Now I just want to watch this even more. Often if the masses don't understand it, it has something more interesting to say and is thus a better piece of cinema.

[@ShadwRavn]

Or it s just bad

[@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom]

You say that of Borderlands too?

[@ShadwRavn]

@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom he will cook a literal piece of shit because everyone saying it tastes bad makes him want to eat is even more. Often if the masses don t understand the refined taste of shit it has something more interesting to make you feel and is this a better meal

[@rottenbabylon]

It was awesome. Y'all were just stoked to trash this film There's so much good in it!

[@Lauren007E]

What did you like in particular?