A Negative Review of SMT V (My GOTY)

[@Tony4You]

As much as I love this game, I agree a lot with the gripes you bring up. It's very frontloaded with polish and falls off as soon as the second area. The story is a great point of contention with me as I am guilty of defending it with the "concepts over characters are normal for SMT", but with replaying SMT4 recently I can't say that anymore. SMT 4, Strange Journey, Digital Devil Saga, and many others all have fantastic story and characters. SMTV's characters are horrible and almost completely without development and I actually dislike half of the endings. I 100%ed this game with full compendium and all endings, so that should be a testament to the fun factor of it, but it could have been much more. Great vid man

[@HidinginPrivate]

Tooonnnyyyyyyy wow. I'm glad you see where I'm coming from. I still get an itch to just run around and play the game after beating it 5 times (I beat it 4 but had to beat it again for Shiva footage and the last dungeon for this vid lol) I love the idea of alignments but felt so underwhelmed not only by the reps, but by how my choices didn't matter - many of the Philosophical questions too were kinda flat or treaded better elsewhere in Atlus games. I've 100%ed things at this point aside from my compendium - I think I still have a few stragglers but don't feel any particular need to grab em at this point. I hope it came across reasonable and welcoming as far as a "negative" video is concerned. I tried to make it in good faith, since this is a game that I still liked more than any other game that came out this year. Thanks for commenting!

[@KokoroNoSama]

I'm with you Tony. Right after the school segment it falls apart in story/cinematic quality at the point of searching for survivors in Daat. Compared to how the rest of SMT, our rivals are non existant or just make no sense. Lack of cut scenes and voice acting. Voice acting was p bad. I tried it on the 2nd playthrough and switched it immediately to japanese. Voices + mouth flaps + boring tones unlike 4 where your preached at and guilted. Also very little voice segments and most are kind of questionable. Also lack of dungeons and variety in world. Dungeons and world are just color swaps with different layout. I love the game, the music is mood and on for hours, and its still fun on hard as Hard Newborn seems to be my favorite spot.

[@user-rk2xi7iw9k]

Smt 4 had a fantastic story? I guess we played very different games…

[@battlerushiromiya205]

@@HidinginPrivate You are not the only one mate. i felt crazy thinking i didn't like an smt game. I bought the collectors edition TWICE. One to keep pristine and the other to play with and show off. I still haven't finished smt v..... And just for a comparison i finished smt iv in a week. And nocturne remaster in 55 hours. Thank you for keeping it real and civil unlike another youtuber ill refrain from mentioning lol

[@athorem]

Never heard a good argument as to why having well fleshed out characters would be a bad thing for SMT. You won't care about the fate of the world if you don't care about a single character in that world. Also, the whole "Friends fighting each other over ideals" thing is only impactful if you care about the characters. Other games that aren't SMT do that trope way better even though that's supposed to be a large part of the appeal of SMT

[@roxas7295]

This game made me realize just how important the story and themes are for me in a Megaten game. The gameplay is pretty solid, but the story bothers me so much at this point that I'd rank the game pretty low among the rest of the series. And I think it's worth mentioning that the Amala Drum from Nocturne is based on a Buddhist prayer drum, and its appearance here seems to have nothing to do with Buddhism unlike in Nocturne.

[@HidinginPrivate]

The themes and story are extremely important to me in ATLUS games. It's one of the only places I can rely on to get a smart coverage in gaming and to see it handled poorly is very disappointing to me

[@kaidene573]

this is late, but it would seem that they really wanted to shove a lot of smt 3 into this game, along with its minamalism, and tried to have a cinematic story like smt 4 or something. I feel as though they tried way too hard to emulate smt 3, and the game felt like it was trying to mimic that game, instead of coming up with something actually original. Kagutsuchi and Magatsuhi actually had a story and explained purpose in nocturne, while they only serve as fanservice in smt v. Demi fiend easily could have been replaced with another dlc character, but they wanted to mimic nocturne so bad they put him in his 4th crossover

[@HidinginPublic]

Wow! Your voice sounds like the Japanese VA for Ryo in Devilman Crybaby when he tries to speak english! That's weird!

[@whoevencares219]

It's things like this that i thoroughly appreciate, if i were a videogame developer and i saw this, things like this would make my job easier to make further improvements and make a better product since there is subjective but quite a few objective complaints which are all useful info, excellent video.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks! A lot of people go ham when being negative and I think often fail to construct valid constructive criticisms, sometimes stating things off the cuff that end up being provably wrong. I tried to avoid this the best I could because I genuinely enjoy this game and SMT and want to see improvement for the future. It came from a good place I think and happy you think it came across more that way

[@magnificmango336]

My biggest story problem is that major characters keep getting shoved off to side quests. The sister? Side quest. Amanozako? Side quest. Zeus? Side quest. Shiva's plan? Side quest. The story sets up so many big names only to never actually conclude their stories in the main narrative. It just makes me wonder why they weren't just kept to side quests the entire time. I actually really like Lamu's story. It provided a much-needed personal stake for the characters, and provided a compelling story of an abused girl being preyed upon by a power far beyond her understanding. The ending to that story arc left me genuinely speechless, something that never happened at any other point. It's an emotionally powerful narrative that the game promptly ditches and forgets afterwards. I feel it would've been much better if Itsukishima had been set up as the primary antagonist, chasing the throne of god along with the other big players. As a Nahobino herself, she would serve as a strong rival character. I also prefer being able to pick your alignment in one final choice, rather than it being decided by smaller choices along the way. Playing IV, it felt like I was being punished for being nice and kind by gaining more law points. It's especially odd when the Law ending is arguably the most coldhearted Flynn can be. My opinion of the alignments usually changes as the game goes on, so it's nice to not be defined by my early-game thoughts. And there is still an alignment system in the game, deciding whether or not your alignment-specific endgame sidequest can be accessed with or without a steep macca paywall. It still rewards consistency in your choices, but doesn't force you down a route you may not even want.

[@SOMEGUY7893]

"My biggest story problem is that major characters keep getting shoved off to side quests." Funnily enough the literal only time that worked for a character in this game was Demeter and even then it still felt like it should have been treated like a more major story thing especially with how her last quest is the Zeus side quest rather than you just randomly getting a quest from her after happening by her in a nondescript destroyed building.

[@goleh4044]

The fact that the game was rewritten and cut down is pretty much something that the main artist has stated multiple times, not just speculation at this point. Even the localization team says the exact same thing, and the staff for this game changed mid development.

[@leixalkvinay2729]

One of the aspects that felt like a downgrade was the lack of choices that matter. Just from the start you can't reject Aogami, that was a nice chance to make a "joke" ending like in DeSu 2 where you can just die, and well, IV and Strange Journey are way better at making you consider your choices, specially IV and the amount of times your choices changed the story in some degree, like the whole Lilith vs Tayama. Also it felt kinda unnatural to not get a human party member at some points, in IV and Apocalipse it was a nice touch to interact with the characters in diferent moments whitouth feeling invasive, for the most part there's an explanation as to why, but for example the figth with Hydra alone didn't feel necesary, it would be a great chance to make a choice betwen seeking help from Yuzuru and stop seeking Dazai or let him search for him while you fight. little things like that would make the experience more unique and interesting, a shame it was so barebones in that regard.

[@SOMEGUY7893]

"make a "joke" ending like in DeSu 2" This is still hands down the best ending in any Megaten game.

[@kaidene573]

in terms of fights like hydra, many of the new demons felt like random checkpoints that existed just to exist. Ishtar was a boss just cause, she had no story relavance

[@ObsessionistVideos]

I've never played an Atlus game (I'm only now in the middle of P5) but this was really fun to listen to. This tone of appreciative criticism is rad and actually sold me more on the franchise than anything I've seen so far.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Oh well hey that's uplifting to hear - aside from Nintendo's umbrella, my two favorite game studios are Atlus and From Software, I love Atlus' games and am glad you're playing P5 (hope you're playing Royal tho) They are great games even if sometimes parts of the community can come across fairly daunting

[@PKRockin7]

Best review I've seen on the subject and it's a damn shame it was mostly ignored compared to SimplyDad's review (which is like yours, but filled smug, self-satisfied commentary and shittalk) The game is fun but also deeply lacking and it could have been so much better with more focus and direction

[@HidinginPrivate]

I like you! You're smart! I have a lot of issues with Sdad stuff and am always happy to hear a positive comparison of him and myself. Lol (even if this is the first time)

[@AbelMusa]

Simplydad's is a good review, he just doesn't go "this is my game of the year guys! Please don't lynch me!" Every 5 minutes. This consoomer culture is cringe. People can't handle criticism to a product, PRODUCT, without needing to be pampered to at every step.

[@antichton1926]

I very largely agree. Watching this video even made me pick up on more things I didn’t even notice, such as only Da’at (Tamachi) being the area with genuine life and air to it. Your points on story and characters is honestly universally agreed on by the people I’ve talked to, and it really hurts because you absolutely know there was so much planned for these characters, yet, for some reason or another, it was drastically cut down. It really hurts too, as I feel this could’ve been one of the best SMT games. Had it been earlier entries, one would assume Ichiro is Chaos, and Yuzuru is Law, off design alone. Overall, the biggest gripe to me, is the fact that this game feels different than what it was supposed to be. Yamai stated he wanted V to coincide with the times, and yet, the only instance we get of the human side of this is the one off comment from Tao. I still really enjoy this game (as my pfp proves), but I can’t confidently call it my favorite SMT game. It’s so close, and yet, so far.

[@sambaker272]

My biggest agreement is with when you can just pick the ending at the end. I was making decisions throughout the game and as I met different characters began to feel differently and tried to paint my ending that way. All that seemed like fake immersion at the end.

[@SOMEGUY7893]

Your choices actually do affect your alignment so it does kind of feel like they were intending to do something like letting you choose any ending but it's outcome would be affected by player alignment but ultimately weren't able to fully realize that in-game.

[@brookmikal]

My favorite part of the so called TRUE NEUTRAL is you need to befriend Amanozako Khonsu and Fionn yet the thing that makes you decide to create the True Neutral is Nuwa.... Unrelated to the questlines before it. And of course you kill all demons, sorry Miyazu! Die alone. Khonsu won't be there for you because a snake lady told me to.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Oh I just realized true neutral kills khonsu which takes the "spend the time we have left together" meme mute- basically ending their relationship and not even giving them a forewarning to prepare or say goodbyes lmao

[@dantemustdie00]

Yeah the so called "True Neutral" could've been handled way better than that considering that it involves bonding with demons in the first place.

[@jacobchapman8180]

Really hoping we get either post-launch support that irons out some of the graphical polish issues in tandem with DLC, or a Maniax-like release that gives them time to finish implementing missing things and expand on areas. Add some more involvement of the other Bethel branches prior to the summit (a cutscene of Odin and Zeus blowing up demons or something?), flesh out Yuzuru more to have a more firm "I'm here for my country, not for Bethel's idealism" stance, show Miyazu and Isis interacting to hint towards her relation with Khonsu (and actually show signs of her illness), and so on. Expanding the roster of Demons would be obligatory for a re-release but could really help vary things up. Improved versions of the Dracostrike skills to deal Heavy or Severe damage could really make some of the later game demons interesting. It would also be cool if certain moves could share the animation of unique skills so you can replace them later on and keep the style (Using Glacial Blast on Mermaid would look like Stormcaller Song, Maragibarion on Chirronup looks like Ghostfire Rain, etc). One of my major gripes with the alignment structure is that Neutral and Chaos feel switched in their default endings. Tsukiyomi seems way more moderate creating a world of many gods protecting the people rather than "lol reject everything". A lot of the Chaos aligned quests directly harm Tokyo (letting the Lilim into Tokyo, killing one of the old gods for Adramelech, and so on), so it seems weird to make those choices lead to the ending supposedly in it's interest. Nuwa and Yakumo just really seem more like Chaos reps, even if they don't side with demons. Nuwa could still even be your ally in the alt-Neutral ending, because she is more moderate than Yakumo. If Dazai's transformation happened on the roof of the school before entering Taito, the alignment lock in could happen then and there, deciding if you'll work with Bethel/Abdiel (Law), Tsukiyomi (Neutral), or alone/later with Yakumo and Nuwa (Chaos). Alternate versions of the ending can still be locked in later, but you would have access to unique scenes with your allies and maybe bonus fights against the other factions, alongside making the bonus demons tied to the alignments come along earlier.

[@HidinginPrivate]

With the way Atlus has been handling major titles I think a redux or expanded type beat is probably a given, so I also hope they flesh a lot more stuff out, especially in regards to the story. I also agree with Chaos feeling weirdly neutral and vice versa, as well as chaos aligned decisions not making much sense with the actual chaos reps at hand. The result of Destroy the throne is very chaos, but I wouldn't quite say the chaos rep is very neutral. They want Tokyo to be left in the hands of Mankind, which is very in line with chaos in that aspect. Otherwise yeah, more reasons it's all bungled

[@SOMEGUY7893]

"(and actually show signs of her illness)" To be fair some diseases actually do just work like that. For a personal example I'm diabetic and if artificial insulin wasn't a thing I'd be dead, but you wouldn't even be able to tell there's anything wrong with me at a glance until I started actually finally dying from it causing my to get either severe hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia and the deadly side-effects caused by them. Also completely unrelated but I feel like this game associated the "chaos" alignment as being "pro-demon" rather than the usual order vs freedom setup it usually is based on how it's the only ending where the demons don't get fucked over by it's outcome.

[@marvelous_jack5228]

This is interestin. I like the concept of the idea of talkin about all the negative aspects of somethin ya love. It's obviously not an original idea cause people obviously has gripes with things they really love but a whole video on just the things that ya don't like is pretty cool ngl

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks, I hope it was entertaining - this video had an extremely quick turn around for me tbh, "my pen was flowing off the page" as people say

[@NVFerost]

Three points I'd like to comment on personally. First, while I agree that the single target buffs felt useless, I felt the single target debuffs were absolutely powerful when against specifically bosses. The only fight in which i felt single target buffs were useful ever was Apsaras, theres just not enough points where normal fights last long enough or I'm hitting/being hit by enough different things with one character to care to use the single target buffs unless they were just more powerful than the debuffs are, which would lead to weird scaling when we get the full party versions. I'm pretty sure that it was heavily implied, between several of the japanese interviews, that the main writer departed the team a little over a year into development and since then basically every single writing team (the imagine/dx2/devil survivor team, the persona team, and the tms team) had some hands on the game at some point, and if I'm remembering that correctly I think that explains pretty succinctly why there's a hundred scenes and statements that don't amount to anything or ever get elaborated on (amanozako suddenly talking in that weird voice, aogami losing all real importance after the scene with the PM) and a few dozen other things, like as were mentioned in the video, that come out of absolutely nowhere. The other point I'd like to mention is that not everything in taito is level 70+, the area around the starting point and toward Khonsu is in the late 50s and early 60s whereas going towards vasuki pulls you into the 60s proper and odin's zone is in the 70s. Its still a pacing spike but there's more "the game that has kinda handheld you through a strict level-by-level set path through areas 2 and 3 and now expects you to figure out which way you should go based on enemy level by yourself" problem to it than raw pacing. Actually I lied, there's a fourth that comes off of the last one. I really wish we hadn't pulled harsh level scaling from persona. Low level is bread and butter for smt challenge runs, thus the long term community, and creation of interesting strategies to get through different parts of the game. That and the fact that a player who falls behind or walks into the wrong neighborhood in Taito will feel like they *have* to grind or do every sidequest they missed is kinda dire from a design standpoint.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks for commenting! The issues I had with buffs/debuffs being fairly ineffective was an exclusive issue I had with the early game, but I actually thought the buff/debuffs were fairly well implemented. I thought the individual battles were genuinely nice in terms of pace, similar to 4 and Nocturne (although with the added bonus of having animation skips at a button press for speed) - it is a bummer we didn't get any form of horde battles return but I also understand why they didn't bring them back. Now that you mention your second point, I do feel i heard a murmur about that months ago - but it had totally been lost in my memory. Obviously that would explain why the story was such a mess although not justify it. I should have mentioned the aogami and amanozako bits there too. While I wasn't trying to be entirely exhaustive, a few more moments where things failed to be followed up or elaborated upon would have been good meat on the argument. It's true that technically the lowest level area/boss is Seth (lvl62) then immediately after Khonsu (lvl64) - but since neither of these are available until you receive the quest from dominion, which is surrounded by random encounter enemies that are over level 70 (orochi) in odin area, it creates a total mess of pacing. The fact that each Absence encounter also is drastically different in level, and the quests don't have some sort of difficulty or level indicator means you basically are fumbling around getting killed until you find something low level enough to reasonably challenge, and then fumble around further until you find the next thing. If you do create a team for the sole purpose of farming specific high level enemies you will level up really fast as well, unintentionally ruining the difficulty of side quests that are available but unknown to you in the area. That's why I feel it's a 20lvl spike problem, because the next required fights are all 72, while you're probably mid to high 50's and the way the level is set up is so illogical with low level quests in the center of high areas and the place to the empyrean is in such quick access to the starting point - it's a complete mess. This is something I wish I would have included tbh. The fact that if you're say - 20lvls below something the game basically reduced damage to 0, or how just being a handful of levels higher or lower can half or double your damage sucks a lot and makes it feel like stats don't matter a bunch (i mean they DO matter - it just feels trivialized at times do to this) I do feel some challenge runs have definitely been made a lot easier with the changes 5 made, but harsh level scaling is def not a fun addition for SMT Thanks again for commenting! Hope I paid you back with the long response! Trying all I can to make this channel grow

[@tastethecock5203]

Also regarding story and narrative, I am not the biggest fan of Nocturne's story, but looking back there are a lot of things that were done in Nocturne that added human element to it. In nocturne there were multiple settlements, traders, you could enter the bar and talk to Nyx and Loki, there were manekins, different demonic factions. Most of it is lacking in V. So yes, nocturne isn't better because it did minimalism better, but nocturne actually had more narrative packed into it.

[@simonfisher4592]

I agree, I don't feel as strongly on some negative aspects as you do though. A sentiment I have that I don't see too much is how likable (milage varies) they made some of the demon side characters, it was cool to see them pop up every now and then through the game (Finn McCool, amanozako, etc). I also liked what they were doing between the protag and aogami before they made him not talk 3/4 of the way in, the 4th ending actually made me a little teary eyed. I really appreciated what you said during the radio silence section, I'm also fairly new to the community and I've found the majority of the experience annoying (although to be fair I attribute that to most internet discussions). As someone who likes a majority of the franchise it's a win lose situation because almost all discussion praising a part of the series will have some snide remark or dismissal to a different part of it. I know statistically, someone is bound to feel how I feel but it was nice hearing someone with a similar opinion. Good video, I'd give you a gold star if I could

[@sonicfraisheya4028]

I wish both Devil survivor 3 and future SMT and spinoff (excluding Persona) use this game "engine" or framework, for DeSu especially since a mix of digimon cyber sleuth and smtv would be my dream come true for a devil survivor game. Tl;dr smtV just doesnt feel "complete" yet. But what is there is really good and should be built upon.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Me too. I hope the base for SMT5 is used for future titles so we can get more SMT games out, more often and for cheaper. This battle system is good. Just keep adding more demons with each successive story/title and eventually we'll be on an engine powerhouse with demon amounts the likes of smt4 or beyond

[@seth7726]

Finally, a video which discusses the negative aspects of the game thoroughly! I think I completely agree with each and every point you made. I won't say I dislike the game because the gameplay and OST are great, and those 2 elements alone can carry any game imo. However, story and characterization are soooo underwhelming. I'm not one of those people who say the typical ''story doesn't matter in SMT'', but this game made me realize how important are these two things on any game. They really add up to the tone, which I wasn't really feeling unlike the any other mainline game. Especially the SNES games, which might not have a very good gameplay, but I was always craving for more story bits because it was genuinely interesting. SMT V is just a game that I had fun but can't say I really got engaged. This has never happened to me with any other Megaten game. Eas mainline or even spin-off game left some great memories thanks to the story, but here I felt like I was battling enemies for the sake of having fun, which isn't bad per se, but that is not what I expect when I go into an SMT adventure. Let alone one that promised and could've been so much more. On a side note, I think we can expect more of these story reviews in the next weeks, some relevant megaten youtubers comes to mind that already said they were preparing critique-style reviews.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks! Glad you watched qnd took the time to comment. I never understood how story wouldn't matter in SMT. The unique mature story and themes (while I think handled often in varying quality) are fundamental to why the series is what it is. I also think too many people are giving the story credit it doesn't deserve. Even Nam's video on it said complaints on the story were overblown and that it had some "interesting ideas that make the player think" -but like- an interesting idea is literally the easiest thing in the world to do, especially when you're following on the established ideas and themes of a 30 year old franchise with 9million entrees. Having a cool idea is nothing if it's poorly executed, and SMT5 wasn't just poorly executed, it was barely executed at all. Idk still love the gameplay, still love the game overall, but these weird defenses of the story are driving me bonkers. I need to go on a podcast and just talk this out with someone I think

[@HidinginPrivate]

Who are the people making the critiques btw?

[@seth7726]

@@HidinginPrivate big agree on "story was barely executed at all". Jumping between areas leaves more questions than answers and at the end of the game I just can't feel like I learnt nothing from the conflict. Oh, and some of the megaten channels that i believe they said might cover this game's story in depth are Larrue, nyarly, nyth grandbeard, marsh and macca

[@kutsmacksolucas]

It bothers me a little that I spent arround 40% of my time with this game looking around in a "how do I get up there for that treasure?". The verticalization is cool and all but some places like Chiyoda/3rd region can be a pain in the ass for a completionist. I'm also appaled by how much the characters are uninteresting. Every single one of them feels like a waste, specially Tao, Yuzuru and his sister. I'm ok on how the alignments have changed a little bit, showing that even within that alignments spectrum a lot of stuff can go in. But the last stretch of the game, with who dying to whom being decided entirely by who you side with while the Nahobino stares at their alignment partner being killed right to his face is a bit appaling. Regardless, I still think the game is fantastic and the gameplay loop of explore - do quests - clear map - fuse is top notch, probably the series' best so far.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Yo I'll be honest I still haven't figured out how to reach that tengu in the 3rd block. I spent like 4 hours in total trying to tbh. I did like the exploration overall though but yeah some of the "can I go there" or "can I stand on this" is kind of inconsistent which makes the platforming sometimes less polished. I'm fine with the alignments not being their stereotypical positions' it's good even - in a better game it could have added a lot of nuance but when the characters are some of the worst I've seen and the alignments role in the story is so minimal it definitely brings it down. It's definitely the most moment to moment fun I've had in SMT. Many of the tedious aspects have been removed but it does other things so poorly I hesitate in placing it as my personal best. Still, I did play it a ton, get all 4 endings and max my level which is not my usual route in SMT - then again - maybe that's because the balancing made it easier? A NG+ playthrough can take like 4-5 hours pretty easily.

[@Nilnot]

I saw your footage of true ending Lucifer and thought, that party looks familiar. Looked at my save and, sure enough, I had the exact same party for that fight. Kinda illustrates your point about demon variety lol

[@TheHishiro]

16:03 love you so much for using Katawa Shoujo OST in these days

[@HidinginPrivate]

It's classic!

[@FujinKeima]

I agree with pretty much everything you said but I particularly appreciate that you put into words a gripe I had with the game that I couldn't quite phrase; the lack of unique demons locked behind fusion really made demon collecting a bit boring for me this time around, especially since they dumbed down negotiation instead of fleshing it out. Nocturne had far less demons, but having so many demons locked behind evolution or obscure fusion recipes made the demon roster feel that much more compelling.

[@cheese3277]

your videos are pretty good and its good to see more youtuber get into smt

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks. This one has pretty quick turn around but I'll have higher quality stuff edited stuff soon.

[@polyman6859]

This is definitely the best SMT5 analysis on YT so far.

[@thesubculturegeek]

You nailed it. This is the best review for SMT5. I think why people hesitant to criticize the game is because they’re afraid any bad press for SMT. Since Persona is getting so popular and SMT fans are having this mentality that SMT has to be better than Persona. So Evan when it’s so obvious that almost everything people praised SMT over the Persona series is lacking in SMT5, a mature story, ending depends on your choices in the adventure, moral dilemma etc…you get the idea. I’m just frustrated because if we don’t call out Atlus for the failure, the future of SMT will not be good. Sorry for the long comment, just want to get my thoughts out there.

[@athorem]

You are absolutely right. Please do call Atlus out on this game, its the only way to make future games better. It really is unfortunate because SMT so desperately needed a win after so long, but fans of the franchise aren't helping the future of the series by avoiding discussion of the game's flaws just so they can claim the game is a masterpiece and better than Persona

[@maramba32]

sont worry, soul hackers beat it to it.

[@joshuafoote5144]

26:18 I found Lahmu to be entertaining, personally. I feel that he's an accurate metaphor for an online predator.

[@eminemrules121]

I’m also new to Atlus, my first game was Persona 5 Royal. I’ve since bought and played SMT5, P4G, and I’m I think probably about halfway through the Nocturne remaster. I say this because I have never seen anyone being negative or self-deprecating about Atlus, is that really all that common? Loved the video man, I found your channel through your Color Theory in P4G video. Great stuff, keep up the great work :)

[@athorem]

Thank you for your thoughts on this game's story. Some of the SMT fans are giving the excuse that SMT isn't about story to the point that they're letting their standards fall to rock bottom with their blind acceptance of this game's plot. That's not going to make future games better.

[@bluespaceman7937]

Let's hope Vengeance addresses at least a handful of these issues.

[@PlayerFirstGamesWB]

Same they have shown a lot of promising changes so far!

[@shakyor875]

I guess story for me is extremely important. I saw all the changes to playing with demons and I loved it. But when I got to play the game myself, I never finished it. The game is great in many places, but for me, without a proper story and with these characters being like husks, it just felt like a hollow experience.

[@krv3]

I can definitely agree with you on all fronts but like. I can't say it's game of the year lol however low standards are better than higher ones so I can get why you'd say that when you spent so much time on it. I'm a fan of this video and I'd really like to see you cover more of SMT.

[@HidinginPrivate]

What would you say was GOTY? It was the best game I played in 2021 despite its faults so it was still my GOTY by definition. I couldn't think of another game I played that matched that

[@krv3]

NTWEWY probably . 2021 feels like a blur and i had to look up a list of games released in that year to even remember which I find funny

[@304Blaise]

I thought the criticism of not being able to tell which alignments were even which was a part of this game’s whole identity. In my opinion it blow nocturne’s story out of the water and comes pretty close with 4. The twists on the formula of what each faction represents were super super conceptually interesting. Also Khonsu is foreshadowed a hilarious amount with the entire dialog she had about him coming to her in her dreams. You should read more npc dialog when they’re just chillin. Reading every single piece of dialog in this game has me pretty convinced it’s near the top of the series in story. Not as good as SMT4 or strange journey perhaps, but great. Way better than nocturne

[@HidinginPrivate]

Ehhhhh. I like that the alignments were not your stereotypical SMT ones, and having a twist is fine? (Although I don't really think they did a twist, other than with the tsukuyomi who was just keeping to his original ideals) the NPC dialogue really did NOT help though. I read almost everything on my first playthrough, 90% of the dialogue is nothing statements or repeating stuff you already know. That bit about dreams... it's like 1 convo and she doesn't even allude to Khonsu all that well, mentioning a boat instead which fits more with Sukuna Hikona's design than anything. Even if you like the concept of what each faction wanted, the game does virtually nothing with it. An interesting idea is not a great praise, it's how the idea is expanded upon and presented that makes it anything impressive or not. I played 3 4 and 5 back to back and smt5 is not CLOSE to the nuance, world building, foreshadowing or dramatic reveals than 4. Tayama's whole operation and position is way more interesting than anything in 5 and more conceptually unique. I mean Tayama is a law rep, probably the least law looking and acting guy around but his ideals are Law. I won't defend 3 though, honestly people dickride 3 way more than it deserves. It did a lot fo press the franchise forward but the reasons in 3 are shallow philosophy 101 dreg garbage and the characters are barely more fleshed out than 5. Thing is 5 actively tries to pander and copy from 3 in a lot of it's ideas - the very few that exist, so even though I don't really like either, I'd probably have to give it to 3 for atleast pioneering.

[@304Blaise]

@@HidinginPrivate I’d argue in SMT3 the characters are actively less fleshed out than in 5. At least we can agree that taking the template of SMT3 is what made it inferior to 4, sure, but if you’re trying to tell me the events towards the end involving the law faction aren’t a twist then I’m not sure we played the same game. Way more interesting than SMT3, which while it was changing up the formula, ended up watering it down. I think overall strange journey is probably the best, but let’s not dickride SMT4 the way people do with 3 and try to admit that the game has probably the worst implementation of the alignment system in the entire series, with once again strange journey being the best. I feel like 5 lands in between on alignments where they don’t effect the gameplay too much but they’re WAY more interesting in 5 than in any other game in the series conceptually for sure.

[@strell3639]

@@304Blaise let’s not pretend that Smt v story is better than Nocturne, it’s easily the worst in the series. Nocturne has simple story and it’s not the best in the series, but at least each characters goes trough an arc (except Hikawa) and have an important role into the plot. In V you could remove 3/4 of the cast and nothing in the plot would change, Amanozako (a side character) has more development than Yakumo, Tao and Yuzuru. Also regarding the twist of the law ending: Smt 2 did that twist 30 years ago. As for V’s alignments being interesting ehhhhhhhh…. They are basically Smt 1 alignments (maybe the neutral route is more unique), nothing new. But I agree, SJ is the best in the series story wise (I’ll add the first one as well, really like that game story and atmosphere).

[@304Blaise]

@@strell3639 aight bro SMT3 has literal negative character growth and no twists whatsoever. Also no smt2 didn’t execute the same twist it executed some kinda botched half attempt at it that didn’t make sense then or now. SMT5 actually pulled it off, so no I don’t see smt2 as being in any way relevant to the conversation. Every smt game has flaws. For SMT3 it’s reasons (which all fucking suck worse than any of the SMT5 endings), for SMT4 it’s the stupidly rigid neutral path and smirking, etc. like I said before strange journey is the closest to perfect but smt5 dog walks SMT3 in literally every way. Nocturne is overrated as fuck and not even a very good game.

[@strell3639]

@@304Blaise I don’t see anything wrong with having negative character development or no twist if the narration is good and the progression of the plot makes sense. Character development is a neutral term, it doesn’t necessarily equate to a positive development of the character. Smt 2 and 5 twist are basically the same concept: Abdiel and the Archangel do everything in their power to follow God’s order, the only difference is their means: in 2 they managed to create a fake God and in V Abdiel becomes a fallen angel, but the theme behind them is the same.

[@HWMREWesker]

One thing noone ever talks about SMTV battle system is that Agility no longer affects turn order. In previous games you had to at least sometimes take it into account because that made some demons great (looking at you Lvl 19 Koppa Tengu with 13/30 starting agility outspeeding 2/3rds of whole demon roster) or bad turn starters from both sides of battle. In V, you can generally put one or two elemental skills on Nahobino/demon in first slot that enemies in that area are most weak to and have free half-a-turn in almost every battle. I can't tell exact numbers, but I think I get at least double the amount of 8 actions per turn compared to 3, 4 or 4A

[@macmac8222]

It does however affect who goes first overall which actually might be more important. If your agility is very high you can get surprised by an enemy and still go first. I think the opposite is also true.

[@KokoroNoSama]

Although the story takes a dive in quality after the bully arc and developed characters handled poorly with a lack of quality voiced scenes. I'll throw it all away to explore the work with Navi Jack o Lantern. That alone was 30 to 50 hours of gameplay with vacation screenshots.

[@WishMakers]

I've been seeing this and was curious about it, but didn't beat the game until yesterday, but now that I have - yeah, there's a lot of this video that rings true to me. First thing that's immediately obvious is that this game heavily leans on Nocturne nostalgia, and it's very blatant throughout. It feels like Demi-Fiend was built for this game and that when the decision was made to port Nocturne that's when the restructure happened. Remember how we heard about this game at a Nintendo Direct and then had radio silence for like 4 years??? That first viewing ONLY showed the first area. I think that lines up perfectly with your talk about the first area's polish. It seems like the part that was the most concrete amidst a development hell that we don't know the full story on. But I believe that during this time, they decided to lean heavily on Nocturne and made a Nocturne remake as a hype device for V in some respect. The story... I'm really conflicted about it. I hated Dazai's character arc, but particularly in the endgame, where he kinda just changes tune out of nowhere. Despite multiple characters being incredibly one dimensional, I did find myself liking a bunch of them, but they ALL fell flat at the Empyrean section. The entire endgame felt like a bunch of nothing from a story perspective. I think a more subtle touch that shows this even harder is a musical one - not everyone knows about music theory or soundtrack analysis, but this game heavily pushes its main theme in key areas. You hear it in passing in the normal battle theme, and you hear it predominantly in Nuwa's theme, which sets her up for this big ordeal you're soon to face with her. At the end of the day her and Yakumo are... kinda just forgotten by endgame, and any sort of leimotifs they build get dropped by the end. This lends more credence to the idea of anything past the first area going through some troubles. That being said I disagree on one thing in particular and that's the lack of important quest lines. While none of them are quite as cinematic as Demeter and the three "main" side quests, multiple of them have key elements in different areas like Kohryu. In addition, there's a sense of demon expression in the living world that lacks in subtle touches like animations, but EXCELS in areas like voice acting and dialogue. Every demon has their own unique charm and feels like their own unique being, they feel ALIVE. This is important to me because the idea to make the world *fully* 3D instead of segmented like Nocturne or in 2D in 4 is really hard to achieve and I have trouble with it a lot in Pokemon, my other cherished RPG series. I think SMTV throughout does fantastically at offering a world that gives each demon an identity, and each one that appears in the story has PURPOSE. All of their actual lore ties in together in a way I've never seen before. Trying to make every mythos and religion "canon" while keeping the importance of Judeo-Christian vibes to Lucifer and The Creator was an insane feat and yet I think they pulled it off in a consistent ways. This is a great analysis and it makes me want to write one of my own.

[@wJermell0]

Great video. The only things I have to say that are more constructive than "I agree" is that I think you haven't seen any commentary about the negative aspects because SMT V still has that new game smell, now that a month has passed I think you'll start to hear more criticism. When they first said that Lucifer had killed YHVH I think this was a point where longtime players are actually less likely to believe them than newbies. "Yeah you killed YHVH? Nice try Lucifer, you're strong but you're not THAT strong, I'm more likely to believe he died of natural (supernatural?) causes!" Only to abruptly have to eat my words when I see super saiyan Lucifer at the very end. I can't decide if this fooling me is a good thing or a bad thing yet. And I can never harp on the characters enough. Miyazu and Khonsu love each other. The only way we know this is others telling us. Even in their sidequest chain we only see the two speak to each other ONCE. Miyazu and Yuzuru only speak to each other at the very start of the game and barely MENTION each other after that. Though I think Yuzuru was done the worst of all the characters. He's a self insert protagonist that isn't the protagonist. Except even that is giving him too much credit because so was Flynn and HE had personality traits in SMT Apocalypse.

[@HidinginPrivate]

JERMEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLL you know my thoughts more than most others from the streams lol but I'm glad you liked me organizing many of them here. I was also confused with the YHWH bit, I wouldn't consider it bad or good in and of itself, definitely didn't believe him tho with Lucifer being traditionally weaker but hey, good for him lol

[@TwistedLullabies]

I was really hoping Nahobino wouldn't be a silent protagonist. The Japanese trailers made me thought that he wasn't. In this game and especially in Persona 5 it seems like they desparately want to remove the silent protagonist, but can't because of tradition

[@yusufyasaf8010]

Only thing I liked about 5 more than other smt games is how cute jack bros are in this game, I even finally decided to sew frost, hua po and decarabia also sound extremely cute

[@SaberRexZealot]

The characters really could’ve elevated the barebones story. I thought Aogami, Ichiro, Abdiel, Nuwa, Shohei and Tao were really cool but they felt strangely underutilized despite the game being over 40 hours. I would happily spend less time searching for Miman if it meant we got some actual development from these guys.

[@Jack-lo5me]

The game would be 5x better if there was an area between the last two. It feels like there was gonna be. Like, there should have been one more plot-beat, like, the summit happens, and then everyone is preparing and walking on thin ice. Then, there is some threat that you have to take care of- perhaps a citing of Lucifer? Of course, it’s not actually him, but all of the previous branches of Bethel send out their Generals, their right hand men, to go check it out. During this time, you have to fight alongside Dazai AND… the other guy- can’t remember his name- to save humans who were brought into this world for some reason, probably BY Lucifer, in order to spread more chaos. During NOW, you get the knowledge of Tsukiyomi’s plan, some optional backstory, and more optional but very story-heavy content that will give you more choices. Dazai and Chaos-Kun are both doing their best, but you can only go and help one, who do you choose? The one who has been leaning Law, or the one leaning Chaos? Or do you choose to fights the straggler-demons, the ones that could interfere in either of the others battles. You’ll get the Tao reveal here at the end, maybe a side quest involving her, and then the end of this chapter is WHEN Abdiel falls and chooses to become a Nahobino, as well as the Tsukiyomi Nahobino… but not Nuwa. Not yet. And now, during the final act, you are clashing with the other Nahobino(depending on your current alignment of course) as well as the Bethel Rebels. Then, you can still have your final Stair-Battles, after you get your second, locked in choice, that will have consequences if you go against your alignment; like, HAVING to do the optional Chaos/Law side quests in order to prove your loyalty. I think this would have turned a 9.2/10 into a 10/10.

[@DKzCoolD2]

Yes. Yesyesyesyes. I agree with every single point you made. I wonder why this video didn't sprinkle in some "I hate Amanozako" though. But I ain't complaining. I love her. Hey HEY hEy!

[@HidinginPrivate]

I feel so mixed on her lol- initially I liked her, then she ticked me off, and now I find her charming. My opinion went through a bigger character arc than most the characters within the game, thanks for the support!

[@yuki5619]

nahobino protag kun boy hot

[@DKzCoolD2]

True, Yuki.

[@HidinginPrivate]

So True!

[@cryguy0000]

I almost instantly saw parallels with Nocturne when I started playing SMT V. The setting, lack of story focus and protagonists. It all felt like almost a sequel to Nocturne. Except it had more polish and less frustrating elements that Nocturne had. I loved V, but I won't deny its pacing and story aren't the best. It's similar to Lost Judgment, my tie in my GOTY, a great game that added so many awesome things but was also a step back in certain aspects

[@HonestToCritic]

Your small gripes alone sound like huge gripes to me. The game's already hard from the offset, and you have to complete side quests just to unlock fusion types. That coupled setup quality expectation at the start would drive me up a wall... 🤷

[@TwistedLullabies]

One thing I dislike like about the game is that some enemies won't leave you alone regardless of level

[@HidinginPrivate]

Yeah it seems a bit random for why and who, another bit that feels kinda unpolished

[@TwistedLullabies]

@@HidinginPrivate Some flying enemies do leave you alone too

[@doow4s833]

still haven’t played past the opening hour or so. i have too many things to do but i really do need to play it.

[@HidinginPrivate]

It's fun. Definitely worth coming back too. I mention a lot of things I like here but I think this is the most competent review that actually mentions negative aspects of the game

[@dietrichrache1975]

Finally, somebody talking sense about this game.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks

[@antonwatsonsanchez7705]

The whole char development of this game is going full aizen-sama and soup-opera moves, characters are not the central point of SMT but never was THIS weak

[@HidinginPrivate]

It's so weak. I feel like I'm going crazy seeing the amount of downplaying of this in youtube videos

[@alfthetruelord]

There is way too much evidence that this game was unfinished, I don’t blame them entirely (covid probably fucked with development quite a bit) but if you look at the 4th area with it’s huge level jump, the entirely unused characters and content sidelined to side quests. The 2 scenes right next to each other that both explain how Tokyo is fading and that there is a summit with the gods happening, as if you didn’t know from the first time you were told. Alongside them having to bring in other teams from atlus It’s far to apparent to me that it’s pretty rushed with gameplay being the main thing they focused on finishing

[@geebon5850]

Imagine my surprise when I entered the final Daat map, I was around level 56+ and I went to fight Zeus and he was level 72. I didn't win against him first time, so I completely re-made my entire team specifically just to beat Zeus.

[@Tar4de]

Im late here, but the fact that Miyazu wasn't the neutral rep and was relegated to a side quest really told you the amount of money it went to the game, which is funny considering the amount of cash atlus is doing with persona rn

[@itsallenwow]

As someone who started with 5 and went back and has now beaten nocturne and 4, it’s crazy people didn’t make very big of a stink about the problems the story had. I guess that’s just how sick the gameplay of 5 is.

[@athorem]

I think SMT fans really wanted a win so they treated the game like it was one. The gameplay isn't even that different from previous titles

[@itsallenwow]

What’s funny about starting with 5 is that I remember seeing a ton of pushback to the IGN review saying “the story is not as good as persona 5” because a lot of people (myself included) started there. But in my opinion the game sort of brought that upon itself by starting you off as a high schooler who like makes friends, goes on the roof to plan stuff out etc. If I had started with Nocturne or 4 I wouldn’t have made that comparison at all. I feel like Altus wanted to give people an opening that reminded them of p5

[@athorem]

@@itsallenwow Oh yeah a giant part of the sales success of SMT V is due to the success of Persona 5. It wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the amount of attention otherwise. Even though mainline fans were talking so much about how SMT stands on its own merits, SMT V leeched off of the success of P5

[@itsallenwow]

Yeah my first perception of the series from starting with 5 is like “incredibly beautiful game visually. With a legit genius combat and party system that pour into each other really well. Extremely mid anime tier story that looks and plays better than it is.” Which was fine for not having played the other games. But now I just think of the story as like a terrible knock off of nocturne without any of the bite

[@athorem]

@@itsallenwow Yeah I can see how it would make a decent experience as a first SMT game... But I'll never see the game that way because it wasn't my first

[@GleamingGarmore]

Sorry to downgrade the new demon count but Demeter and Zeus were both from SMT Strange Journey Redux. Great designs tho

[@HidinginPrivate]

A few more I counted were in 4A as well,big disappointment on that front.

[@avery1943]

I just finished smtv after putting 100 hours into my first play through and I’m absolutely in love with this game. I had a blast playing it and I enjoyed most of the side quests in the game. As a game I thoroughly enjoyed it, my biggest problem with the game was the story and characters though. I didn’t really care about most of the characters in the game. Yuzuru was just kind of there, Miyazu has no bearing on the main story, and Sahori just seems kind of thrown in there just to name some examples. As for the story the only parts I like were the first quarter and when Bethel dissolves and the race between the Gods for the throne starts. As for Sahori arc and raid on the demon king’s castle, it feels like you could omit those parts from the game and it wouldn’t change much. And those two parts are half the game. As for the ending, I’ve only gotten the law ending so far and I’m not sure how I feel about it. It just kind of feels inconsequential, I’m not really sure what to say about it. I’m probably just run through the game again quickly three more times just to see the other endings and get my final thoughts. Anyway I just kind of wanted to get some of my thoughts down somewhere.

[@cyndronix6785]

1:45 I dunno about Shiva. My first play through, I went True Neutral and I felt it was pretty BS that Shiva spammed Tandava, Impaler’s Animus and Ananta summon. I needed luck and RNG to land a Makajamon for the Seal ability to stop Mediarahan and Shiva’s Impaler attacks. It did feel super satisfying when I won despite his unending assault and and summoning. So maybe a little spam BS was alright in the end.

[@whirlwind872]

Commenting for algorithm manipulation to boost the popularity of this vid

[@HidinginPrivate]

I appreciate it

[@KorewaEden]

algorithm

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thank you Mr.Eden

[@yoshimitsu8922]

Hey, could you tell me what music plays at 24:33? It's really like it. (Also I just subscribed btw)

[@HidinginPrivate]

Super late reply but thus is it kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZmkmnmnq7-erKc

[@Mngalahad]

wonder if they'd revamp it a lot on a new rerelease smt v: nocturne

[@joshuafoote5144]

26:52 I don't think that part is true, actually. Yakumo notes that this isn't the first time that a demon has decided to manipulate somebody.

[@oldschoolmagic4822]

Nobody mentions how the characters stand all the way to the right behind the menu in battle. It's ridiculous

[@MrToonlink53]

I don't care too much about stories in SMT games but even I noticed how rushed the characters/story felt. I will never not be mad how Miyazu's story was thrown in a side quest when the little we did get had so much potential if given proper screentime. How you get the "true" ending felt so arbitrary thanks to most of the quest required for it doesn't connect to the ending. Even though I hated how SMT 4 did it at least it made story sense. Still SMT V is my favorite game in the series because the gameplay is so good and satisfying and Atlus finally learned how to make a decent map(looking at you SMT 4) And it allows me to carry my favorite demon Alice throughout the entire game without much trouble.

[@pink_alligator]

It's very strange how I can like (most of) the characters but at the same time them having So little screen time or chance for you to get to know them at all (I'm a Megami Tensei fan so protag not being developed really obviously doesn't bother me) This game is such a mixed bag, the story was good but ended up underwhelming mostly bcs of how ankle deep we ever got into the characters in it. A very weird contrast having a deep story but with mostly so shallowly explored characters. At the same time, I don't think I've Ever gotten so into the gameplay aspects of a game, ever. I'm a story-driven person and gameplay is mostly just the means to an end for me, the end being getting more story. I don't play Any games that aren't story-based, but I for some reason got really into just playing this game. I found myself dragging my feet bcs I didn't want it to end and despite not being a completionist at all I did every single quest, found all mimans and beat all the big demons, I've never done that in a game before. At the end it leaves me just so torn about what my final judgment on this game is beyond that I really liked it and loved playing it

[@HaydenTheHistorian]

this game has some good graphics wow insane i cant believe it

[@HidinginPrivate]

Mmmmm me no like graph

[@MisaNeruru]

i find it the story presentation is like what you found in MMORPG, so direct with a bunch of textwall

[@noddypeak]

SMT V was a disapointment for me in every aspect. The way they've tweaked the gameplay with the damage scale being dependent on a level basis made upper level demons almost unwinnable at lower level challenges, and all to constrict an open(ish) world to a linear story progression that never picks up. In NG+, the story can be condensed to three hours of the most incoherent, boring trope of unlikable, market-studied characters mainline has ever had, killing any resemblance of replay value in the process. The art direction is mediocre at best, and cringy at worst, having is best moments in the beginning to then derail in the latter regions of the game with the biggest culprit probably being the Temple of Infinity; I'm really pissed they used III's setting so badly. And then there's the music. What Kozuka did was good albeit with some questionable decisions but then there's what Konishi brought this time which were these boring compositions that somehow clashed with the rest of the OST and I feel it ended up impacted negatively the impression I got considering how much his pieces got played during my multiple playthroughs. Also what actually happened with Yamai during the development? was he demoted to producer? I remember him saying early on that the game was going to be very different thematically than what we got. Overall, SMT V is more concerned about how it looks with not enough substance to justify it, and I have no interest in picking it up again.

[@tastethecock5203]

About music. It sounds great, but thematically and genre wise it's all over the place. Nocturne and IV had common theme for soundtrack. Nocturne was mystical/metal, IV was Metal/Industrial/Retro But what is 5? There is retro sound, industrial, techno, metal, edm tribal sounds. It just doesn't come together as a singular Ost. In nocturne and IV battle themes use common elements and motifs, but in V these motifs are all over the place. It's just strange.

[@nolongeranobody869]

In my opinion smt 1 has a better story but really something does feel off when I play it and this video really help me understand why I felt it was so weird compared to other smt games thank you

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks for watching! Glad it offered something else to think about

[@phungduyphong3457]

That Katawa Shoujo background music...

[@polyamorousyandere8104]

I'm about I wanna say almost 60 levels in-and-in terms of story I honestly like it however I did not like the fact that there was a very deep lack of character developments, Like seriously if I wasn't religious which I am I would not have been able to understand the story as well as I do and because of that I deeply appreciate this story simply because I'm able to understand it fully. I know everything that's going on despite the lack of Detail😅 I felt like this was dark souls but SMT you had to talk to everyone and figure everything out on your own.

[@KyngD469]

Calling the framerate solid is generous.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Lol true. For as negative as I was I tried to be as fair as possible

[@yuzuharalemon]

@@HidinginPrivate What's really fucked up is that if you have CFW on your Switch, a simple mod can make the game run at 60FPS with a negligible tradeoff in resolution. The game's vanilla settings just prioritize resolution to such a ridiculous degree that it regularly makes the framerate tank for a nearly imperceptible resolution increase

[@markuswithak5084]

I really can't fully agree on the bosses. They were damage sponges throughout my entire playthrough -only opening up towards the end when customization made anything possible. (Maybe I was underleveled,I don't really know,but might be an issue in my playthrough) Downright unfair was the first Nuwa bossfight,that took way too long for my team to only let it end in a bullshit finish. *All in all* this game has the best exploration and combat the series has seen EVER. Customization is also almost limitless...which makes it really disappointing that the story and the alignments were SUCH A BIG STEP DOWN from SMT4. SMT5 basicly has no replayability. Apart from 2 miracles and 3 specal fusions you only get via New Game+, nothing is stopping you from just saving before the final dungeon,picking an ending and reloading after you've beaten the game. The story doesn't change at all regarded to alignments and I don't want to play the same (already only mid) story four times to see all endings. I chose the chaos ending (btw,Abdiel just killed off Tsukuyomi and Yuzuru before anything could be done with them in the final stretch and I was like WTF?! You don't even get to see Tsukuyomi's true form in the chaos ending) and was kinda underwhelmed. Now am actually contemplating if I wanna see the other endings. Maybe after I played another game and *forget* most of the story so that it's actually worth playing through those 50 hours again...

[@GrandBenja]

Agreed. I never really felt threatened by any boss in the game. I was more worried about running out of MP than about the boss killing me. "Damage sponge" is the best way you could have phrased it. Boss fights could be "hard", but not for the rights reasons.

[@dantemustdie00]

Pretty much agree with everything said here. Still my game of the year, but I ain't dumb enough to ignore the games many faults. Also don't feel bad if people disagree with you, just about everyone agree's that Atlus focused too much on the Gameplay, and not on Story and Characters, also yeah the presentation past the first area was gone. And yeah they definately could've put in more demons, especially looking at the Snake, Drake, Avatar, Wilder, Jirae, and Raptor races which have far too little demons in them. But yeah, hopefully this game does serve as a stepping stone for future Megaten titles tho, just do fucking better with the characters and story.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks! I really like the idea someone threw out in a comment that this new engine could be reused and slightly updated for subsequent SMT games and spinoff. It's a solid engine. Changing the UI and assets somewhat- focusing on story they could bring back a lot of spinoff that have laid dormant a while and for cheap

[@McCaroni_Sup]

@@HidinginPrivate honestly as much as the story of this game is agonizingly meh, it also makes me hopeful for the next mainline SMT. Since they focused all their efforts here on gameplay and arguably mastered what they were going for, perhaps the next SMT game will have a better story than even IV.

[@RaxonXVI]

My personal GOTY (2021) is NEO The World Ends With You and as far as SMTV goes IV was way way WAY better and once I got to Ueno V just oof… yeah I wouldn’t call it fair I feel 4 was way more balanced as well where I could actually take out bosses on hard several levels above me but in V I’m doing chip damage and being helplessly one shoted by bosses a couple levels below me not to mention the story is surprisingly lack luster in V compared to IVs but that’s just me I don’t hate the game but it’s far from my favorite in the franchise

[@naruconas2334]

SMT 5 had some of the most satisfying gameplay experiences with an atlus game in a while. But it gave me little to think about outside of the first area of da'at. After the first, it feels like they're trying to constantly accelerate towards the end. All of the representatives of the different paths dont feel like they reached the point where their conviction would be that strong. Heck, the neutral rep doesn't really gel with the ideology he was touting unless you're on the secret end and hear a tiny blurb about his "true intentions" And the secret ending you get after shiva and the other prerequisites is completely out of sync with how the game presents these quests to the nahobino. Honestly it felt more like the base neutral option was more in line with the requirements' tone than the one you unlocked.

[@coatguy2990]

The problem I have with the Sister Character (Miyazu was her name? I think?) is that it was so incredibly, unbelievably boring. Like, even the first time I played I skipped most of what she has to say and her questline felt so forced. "Oh yeah you should definitely care about this character she is terminally ill" Also my main problem with the game (despite really liking it) is, that the "canon" ending is just a burning pile of sh*t. Why the hell did they think the "canon" ending should be that I, a SMT fan, erase all demons from existence? Sure, I just love reading about and fighting with them, fusing them and putting them into my party with specific skills. Of course I wanna delete all of that, because the gameplay loop is definitely not what I bought the game for. I bought it for the decisions that I can not make and to choose 1 of 3 endings shortly before the game is over. Even if we talk non-meta, you made quite a lot of demon friends on your way up to the top, let's just take Amanozako. You have this long elaborate questline with her, she's the first demon you meet and over the course of the game she kinda grows close to the MC and you as a player. Yep, let's erase her in the canon ending. BEST possible outcome for everyone, right? The reasons I liked the game are that it was similar to SMT 3 in many regards since SMT 3 is my favorite game out of the SMT and Persona Universe. Music was great, Demon variety was okayish and the SMT 3 DLC was downright awesome even though it was just a few bossfights. personal main gripes: - story was lacking and felt forced at points - alignment system (the reason most people get into SMT in general) was non-existent - and if you count the ending as an alignment system, compared to the games that came before this game, you are a lunatic - main characters were forgettable, barely had any significance in the story and were used as an anchor for an alignment system that doesn't exist - canon ending of the game erases one of the main reasons an SMT fan buys the game for, the demons, and honestly makes no sense for a game that revolves around demon combat, that shows you not all demons are bad and some even fight for your cause without getting anything in return. The help you because they like you - and you erase *all of them* I don't know what happened to the story of this game and at this point the ship has hit the floor of the ocean anyways, and seeing how I am the only one complaining about it seemingly everyone else is okay with it, but to me, this canon ending was the worst canon ending of any game I have ever played lore wise. Not only because it's a "bad" ending for all demons, but because it makes no sense from a gameplay point. Why the f*ck would I, as a SMT fan, want to *erase all demons from existence* ???

[@vanilla8956]

I felt like the “true” ending was the result of some kind of atheist bias, with the feeling of “it’s time to grow up and leave the fairy tales behind and be normal” I don’t like this and even if I’m wrong the true ending is just gross to me specifically because it’s painted as this ultimate answer to the entire series. I wouldn’t mind it at all if it was just one of the endings, or a variant law ending or something

[@edelgardvonhresvelg3222]

0:08 that's a bold assumption to make 🤨

[@pengmaeda9908]

I gotta argue against the point of, "Oh no I just fused this demon when I could have just recruited it 5 minutes later" Your demon can still have a unique advantage compared to its recruitable counterpart in an area, its stats. Using the miracle that makes demons carry over their stats in fusion, towards the late game would net me 10-20+ points in all stats. So while in appearance they weren't as unique to the area I'm in, they can totally beat their dad in a fight stat-wise, and thats good enough for me.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Yeah but it cost nothing to add skills onto them, (especially with the over abundance of essences) it cost a butt load of Macca to fuse a new demon. It's rarely worth it. Beyond that though, if that's good enough for you then that's fine, but it's a notably huge step back from the freedom of choice in the previous entries.

[@pengmaeda9908]

@@HidinginPrivate Fair enough.

[@gordonfreeman5872]

I lov u 2 bb

[@Noodlepunk]

Maybe we will get a SMT 5 redux.

[@KekkanSeihin]

#justacommentofappreciation

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thankya

[@Genethagenius]

I love the “SMT” series, especially the mainline games, but I just got “SMT V” and I’m 3 hours in and having to force myself to keep playing. There was NO story hook, and while I enjoy the battle system, other than that I haven’t been hooked by the game yet. “Nocturne” was minimalist also but you got a ton of story and atmosphere in a very short time without a lot of exposition in its first few hours.

[@B0redom13]

I feel like this game had a weirdly obvious lack of choice and you were just railroaded into one path

[@fabiangomez7853]

Doesn't Lahmu loose tongues?

[@tastethecock5203]

This game while good - often feels as unfinished and as a Frankenstein cut into pieces many times and stitched together out of what was left.

[@giakhangtruong54]

They just play it too safe and dumb the story down too much to appeal to as many people as possible.Hope that the sale of this game will actually make Atlus take risks with their story on the next SMT mainline or other spinoffs than Persona.Like Persona is already a streamlined version of the series already, you don't need to do the same thing for other games.Like Wu-Tang Clan used to say : "DIVERSIFY YOUR BONDS"

[@HidinginPrivate]

I definitely agree that the story was dumbed down but I don't even think it was streamlined. Persona's story operate on multiple levels with very comprehensive coverage of mythology on subtextuals levels. We don't get any of that here unfortunately.

[@_b0neman_70]

Yooo new vid

[@HidinginPrivate]

Yooo

[@Deoxys_Used_Mimic]

The aesthetic isn’t just “inspired” by Nocturne, it’s the freaking *sequel.*

[@HidinginPrivate]

Previously to SMT5 the mainline smt games all had distinct looks. Smt5 is the only one very noticeably derivative

[@vanilla8956]

It’s not a sequel. There is no ending to Nocturne that makes sense assuming it takes place before this game.

[@goticogordo]

i like alot of things about SMTV, but since i am comparing with the other ones, since its a part of a franchise and its the 5th game, i am sorry, this was quite the let down, i literally bought the SWITCH OLED for this game, and the most important part of a game of the level that is SMT, the story, the characters, its the worst BY FAR, the only thing i can give it to the game its the things that are already supose to be the superior one, like the mechanics, graphics, animations, but unfortunally, the rest its just a let down

[@elk3407]

Apparently Atlus agrees. Thank god they decided to fix that, unfortunately we have to buy the game again to get an actually good story

[@hugzonline537]

Wow you're smart and cool!!!1!

[@HidinginPrivate]

Wow thank you

[@maramba32]

then theirs soul hackers

[@ethancraig227]

Yooooo this game looks crazy

[@HidinginPrivate]

It's a good game! You should play it!

[@owgirl]

I spy some Katawa Shoujo music

[@HidinginPrivate]

True!

[@bostar1222]

would love to watch but im only halfway through the game :sob: :sob:

[@HidinginPrivate]

What area you at? How do you know you're half way? Haha

[@bugwagonn]

wow you are so smart and cool

[@HidinginPrivate]

Wow thanks

[@That_Ifrit_Guy]

I have to disagree with the comment about the bosses being good at the start, I... didn't find any of the bosses to have any real uniqueness or mechanics that make them stand out. And how they aren't really any different from normal enemies. I was also annoyed with the choices themselves at the end, how none of them where, our choices simply the ideas of other people that, as ya said, where not really fleshed out

[@tephra8128]

Is it a good intro to the games?

[@HidinginPrivate]

Yes. Most of the off-putting elements and design decisions of ther games are largely not present. The gameplay loop is my favorite for SMT combat

[@ProtomonDB]

*insert algorithm-pleasing words here*

[@HidinginPrivate]

Thanks

[@thrillingsun3001]

just casually spoiling an smt 4 endgame boss

[@arieldominguez2905]

A almost 11 years old game 😂

[@robin586]

Hello Mr. Private

[@HidinginPrivate]

Hello there

[@Jackisboy]

This guy just said that SMT5 is better than Pokémon Brilliant Diamond…

[@HidinginPrivate]

How controversial!

[@McCaroni_Sup]

Uhh..... I can't tell if you're offended or agree. But yeah he's right. BDSP is probably the worst high profile switch release of 2021. As flawed as SMT V is it blows every mainline Pokémon game out of the water.

[@hitoshura3527]

I though this was the general consensus of the game, the subredit had been bashing the game story for the pass few weeks.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Oh yeah? I guess I'm not on reddit so that would be why. As far as youtube reviews go I haven't seen pretty much any of this addressed

[@dantemustdie00]

@@HidinginPrivate Both the Megaten Reddit and Twitter, including the big name Megaten players like Buffmaister, Larrue, Filther, Nyarly, Marsh, and many others would pretty much agree with everything you said here, as they too have been saying the same things.

[@HidinginPrivate]

@DMD00 mmm well idk about Twitter, and I DO like Nyarly but his criticism of the story was pretty light in his review- I have seen some of Marsh's tweets recently which I thought were funny and are sensible. Idk the youtube space and people making videos are like "the BEST SMT" and "The GREATEST OF ALL TIME" and when they criticize the story, they skirt any details or majorly downplay the problems. Like Nam's video. Sheeeesh